regarding proposal

[noorseeker]

:sl:

Just wanting a answer to the following situaution

I know a sister who is looking to get married, found out we are very compatible, share similar experiences in life.

But now i find out there is another guy coming to see her at the end of the month to come and see her with his family.

He isnt british born, and she would prefer british born, and i know she prob choose me over him.

She wants to see me before him, Islamically i thought you cant push in line if their is a another proposal going on.


I was going to see her, but told her i have to see her after she meets him.


I dont want her to say no to him, and then meet me and find out she dont like me. She taking big risk


So am i allowed to see her first?

JazakAllah khayran in advance

[noorseeker]

bumping cars

[Innocent Soul]

I think you have to wait ;D...

[Insaanah]

:sl:

The Prophet sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam said : it is not allowed for a man to make a proposal against his brothers proposal until he marries the woman or gives her up." (saheeh muslim, book 8, chap 6, 3294). This hadeeth is greatly understood by many. They think that if a man proposes to a woman, she cannot be proposed to by any other man, nor has she the right to think about any other man until she gives her response to the first man. This is wrong. She can be proposed to by more than one man, and then choose whichever of them she prefers. What is not allowed is for a man to propose to a woman after she was proposed to by someone else and had accepted the other persons proposal.

If sisters are forced to choose one at a time, that means they have to decide about one man without knowing who else might be interested. She might choose one man thinking he's the only one interested when in fact someone better was waiting. Or she might reject the first one, and see others and then realise that the first one was best. So as long as she has not accepted anyone's proposal, more than one can propose at the same time and she has the right to see them all before making a decision.

Allah knows best.

:sl:

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[CosmicPathos]

without sounding judgmental, is being British born more important to this sister than one's commitment to his deen? Just a question to think about.

[KittenLover]

without sounding judgmental, is being British born more important to this sister than one's commitment to his deen? Just a question to think about.

Everyone has their own individual preference I guess, she may have her reasons for wanting someone british born as I do. So I can understand where she's coming from.

I would go see her bro, the other family hasn't even proposed yet have they?? they're just coming down to see her, he might not even like her, so what's the problem with you seeing her.

[CosmicPathos]

Everyone has their own individual preference I guess, she may have her reasons for wanting someone british born as I do. So I can understand where she's coming from.

I would go see her bro, the other family hasn't even proposed yet have they?? they're just coming down to see her, he might not even like her, so what's the problem with you seeing her.

Of course. But my question is asking whether personal/individual preferences can take over religious obligations? Out of these 2 proposals, the sister should marry the most religious one. If the second dude is more religious but not british born, I am not sure if she would be right to reject him and choose the OP. No offense to anyone. Just my individual thoughts. :)

[Asiyah3]

without sounding judgmental, is being British born more important to this sister than one's commitment to his deen? Just a question to think about.

Well, I'd also prefer to marry someone British born if I'd be satisfied with his religiouscommitment.

[CosmicPathos]

hmm. Wow. Anything unique with being "British born?" Nationalism in disguise of preferences? Just an honest question.

[noorseeker]

Wheter she likes me or not. The other guy is still coming down,

I am prepared to wait till she see,s the other guy and then await her choice.

Yeah he hasnt proposed , he just coming to see her.

I do agree deen should over ride things, but the british thing is more about compabiltiy.

[noorseeker]

hmm. Wow. Anything unique with being "British born?" Nationalism in disguise of preferences? Just an honest question.

I dont wanna marry someone from back home, because i cant have a laugh and joke or talk about deen with them in my mother tongue

[CosmicPathos]

Wheter she likes me or not. The other guy is still coming down,

I am prepared to wait till she see,s the other guy and then await her choice.

Yeah he hasnt proposed , he just coming to see her.

I do agree deen should over ride things, but the british thing is more about compabiltiy.

okay? So you are saying a Canadian born would not be compatible with a British born? or anyone else for that matter? I've seen Canadian non-Muslims happily married to British non-Muslims ... some British born Muslims have some sort of a special compatibility requirement of being born in their land?!? No offense again to "British born" Muslims. :)

[noorseeker]

so to make it simple


I can go down to see her, theres no sin on me

[CosmicPathos]

I dont wanna marry someone from back home, because i cant have a laugh and joke or talk about deen with them in my mother tongue

what if they are Canadian or US born? The worst does not always have to be from "back home."

[noorseeker]

what if they are Canadian or US born? The worst does not always have to be from "back home."

Brother my thread is not about comptabiltity, You are going off topic

[Asiyah3]

I apologize Nightstar, for also commenting off-topic

WahabiScientist, maybe you can start a new thread about his topic, how much nationality matters or sth

[Insaanah]

so to make it simple
I can go down to see her, theres no sin on me

Alhamdulillah. And seeing as you've got your answer, and this thread is going off topic, I think it should be closed.

:sl:

[noorseeker]

Alhamdulillah. And seeing as you've got your answer, and this thread is going off topic, I think it should be closed.

:sl:

no disrespect brother because your the only one thats given a hadith,
i dont wanna rely on one person, i hope inshallah someone else will post aswell

[Muslim Woman]

:wa:

So am i allowed to see her first?

Offer Istekhara salat about her; if see positive , then InshaAllah go ahead.

[Insaanah]

no disrespect brother because your the only one thats given a hadith,
i dont wanna rely on one person, i hope inshallah someone else will post aswell

:sl:

Sorry brother, I didn't realise.

While you wait for some more replies, I'll give you one more hadeeth if you don't mind. (Saheeh Muslim, book 9, 3527)

When Fatima Bint Qais told the Prophet sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam that she finished her waiting period, the Prophet sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam told her that Mu'aawiyah and Abu Jahm had proposed to her. After mentioning the weaknesses of both of them, he suggested she marry Usaamah instead.

In this example, the Prophet did not inform her of one man and then say that she must make up her mind (yes or no) concerning one man before any other man could speak to her.

:sl:

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

no disrespect brother because your the only one thats given a hadith,
i dont wanna rely on one person, i hope inshallah someone else will post aswell

:sl:

I get to apply what I learned at Fiqh of Love :D You said the other guy hasn't even proposed - so there's no issue here at all. If he had proposed the following would have applied:

Here's what was mentioned in the class regarding this:

The bride can accept more than one proposal and the man can propose to more than one woman at a time.

Is it forbidden to propose to a woman who is already considering another man's proposal?

She can consider more than one prospective spouse at a time, but once she says yes to someone, no others are allowed to propose (because that means she is engaged). It would be Haraam to propose to her at that stage.

The Prophet (saw) said:

A Muslim cannot propose over the proposal of his brother, until either he marries the woman or gives her up.‘‘
[Bukhaari]

Ibn Hajr said, this Hadeeth is also applicable to women. For example, if a sister knows that a man proposed to another sister, then she is not allowed to propose to him. But, what is the Fiqh of this Hadeeth? Does this mean you are not allowed to propose to women whom somebody else proposed to? What about the case of Fatima bint Qays?

Fatima bint Qais (Allah be pleased with her) reported that her husband divorced her with three, pronouncements and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made no provision for her lodging and maintenance allowance. She (further said): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to me: When your period of 'Idda is over, inform me. So I informed him. (By that time) Mu'awiya, Abu Jahm and Usama b. Zaid had given her the proposal of marriage. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: So far as Mu'awiya is concerned, he is a poor man without any property. So far as Abu Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but Usama b. Zaid... She pointed with her hand (that she did not approve of the idea of marrying) Usama. But Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon himn) said: Obedience to Allah and obedience to His Messenger is better for thee. She said: So I married him, and I became an object of envy.
[Muslim]

Do the above two Hadeeth contradict each other?

Maliki jurists, Shafi‘ee jurists, Imam Tahawi (Hanafi), Ibn Qudamah and al-Khiraqee (Hanbali) said, you are not allowed to propose after woman shows acceptance of man‘s proposal; however, if she didn‘t show acceptance then you are still allowed to propose. If she hasn‘t made a decision on which one to accept then you are allowed to propose, because when Fatima bint Qays told Prophet Muhammad that she received three proposals, He didn‘t say ―Oh how come they did this, or ―This is not allowed; rather he recommended the best man out of the three names she mentioned.

Other scholars, Hanafis, said you are not allowed to propose at all even if she did not give an answer yet because it will cause confusion for her and it can lead to resentment, jealousy, and other harmful actions between brothers. These scholars said that in Fatima bint Qays‘s case the three men did not know about each other‘s proposal. Suppose somebody proposes and sister gives an indication, so basically she didn‘t consent verbally, however showed some interest through her actions, etc. Majority rules that even if she gives the slightest indication that she is agreeing then nobody should propose until she gives her final verdict.

[Cabdullahi]

Brother you have a great battle on your hands its like a job interview....she only wants the best and so will pick the best candidate

Inshallah it goes well for you my brother

[IbnAbdulHakim]

ask a scholar who aint in it for the dollar :)

[Grofica]

i am with everyone else. As long as she hasnt said yes to "the other guy" i say go for it! and good luck!

[noorseeker]

JazakAllah khayran everyone,

[Allaah Knows]

:sl:

She can consider more than one prospective spouse at a time, but once she says yes to someone, no others are allowed to propose (because that means she is engaged). It would be Haraam to propose to her at that stage.

Other scholars, Hanafis, said you are not allowed to propose at all even if she did not give an answer yet because it will cause confusion for her and it can lead to resentment, jealousy, and other harmful actions between brothers. These scholars said that in Fatima bint Qays‘s case the three men did not know about each other‘s proposal. Suppose somebody proposes and sister gives an indication, so basically she didn‘t consent verbally, however showed some interest through her actions, etc. Majority rules that even if she gives the slightest indication that she is agreeing then nobody should propose until she gives her final verdict.[/INDENT]

wa`alaykum salaam wrwb
SubhaanAllaah I had no idea of this. The way I was told it was that we can't consider any other bro whilst conversing with one bro regarding marriage. So basically, another bro comes along and it's a no straight up inorder to fulfil the right of the bro who approached you first. That was the way I was told.


What if it was like the case of Fatima bint Qays and the bros did not know either ? And the sis did NOT give an indication that she is agreeing? In this case, would it be permissible to consider more than one bro from the Hanafi stance?

Some clarification would be appreciated

[nebula]

yes bro you can go down to see her with her wali its no sin on you unless she has already accepted the other brothers proposal.

Q: We live in France and there is no Mufty (Islamic scholar qualified to issue legal opinions) here. Therefore, we ask your opinion regarding the following issue: One of two brothers proposed marriage to a woman. He had been engaged to her for three years and he maintains good relations with her father. The following year, when he decided to hold the wedding ceremony, his brother wanted to have the same woman engaged to his son. As a result a dispute broke out between the two brothers. Which one of the two fiancés has a better claim to marry the woman? May Allah reward you best!

A: The first fiancé has a better claim to marry the woman he has engaged. The second fiancé is not permitted to betroth her if he knows that she has already been engaged and that her family have accepted the first fiancé as a would-be husband for their daughter.It was related in the Sahih (authentic) Book of Hadith of Al-Bukhari, Sunan (Hadith compilations classified by jurisprudential themes) of

( Part No : 18, Page No: 56)

Al-Nasa'iy, and Musnad (Hadith compilation of) Imam Ahmad onthe authority of `Abdullah ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "A man is not permitted to ask for a woman in marriage when another Muslim has already done so until the former retracts his proposal or permits him." May Allah grant us success! May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions!

Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'

Member Member Deputy Chairman The Chairman
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud `Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan `Abdul-Razzaq `Afify `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz


http://alifta.com/Search/ResultDetai...stKeyWordFound

[CosmicPathos]

yes bro you can go down to see her with her wali its no sin on you unless she has already accepted the other brothers proposal.

Q: We live in France and there is no Mufty (Islamic scholar qualified to issue legal opinions) here. Therefore, we ask your opinion regarding the following issue: One of two brothers proposed marriage to a woman. He had been engaged to her for three years and he maintains good relations with her father. The following year, when he decided to hold the wedding ceremony, his brother wanted to have the same woman engaged to his son. As a result a dispute broke out between the two brothers. Which one of the two fiancés has a better claim to marry the woman? May Allah reward you best!

A: The first fiancé has a better claim to marry the woman he has engaged. The second fiancé is not permitted to betroth her if he knows that she has already been engaged and that her family have accepted the first fiancé as a would-be husband for their daughter.It was related in the Sahih (authentic) Book of Hadith of Al-Bukhari, Sunan (Hadith compilations classified by jurisprudential themes) of

( Part No : 18, Page No: 56)

Al-Nasa'iy, and Musnad (Hadith compilation of) Imam Ahmad onthe authority of `Abdullah ibn `Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "A man is not permitted to ask for a woman in marriage when another Muslim has already done so until the former retracts his proposal or permits him." May Allah grant us success! May peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and Companions!

Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta'

Member Member Deputy Chairman The Chairman
`Abdullah ibn Qa`ud `Abdullah ibn Ghudayyan `Abdul-Razzaq `Afify `Abdul-`Aziz ibn `Abdullah ibn Baz


http://alifta.com/Search/ResultDetai...stKeyWordFound

no wonder why mankind conflicts over three things: wealth, women, children.

[cat eyes]

:sl:

what you need to ask yourself brother is can you really handle the rejection if she choose this other brother instead of you?

if NOT, then you need to leave it here and forget about her for a while to see what will happen with this other guy and don't contact as not to create attachment to this girl who has been already asked her hand in marriage from another brother so really i personally believe you should leave it and keep searching for other potential and tell her to contact you if shes not interested in this other brother because i would not like it if a brother was interested in me but was meeting up with another girl at the same time.

i would just break off all communication til he makes up his mind. its not fair.
:wa:

[CosmicPathos]

:sl:

what you need to ask yourself brother is can you really handle the rejection if she choose this other brother instead of you?

if NOT, then you need to leave it here and forget about her for a while to see what will happen with this other guy and don't contact as not to create attachment to this girl who has been already asked her hand in marriage from another brother so really i personally believe you should leave it and keep searching for other potential and tell her to contact you if shes not interested in this other brother because i would not like it if a brother was interested in me but was meeting up with another girl at the same time.

i would just break off all communication til he makes up his mind. its not fair.
:wa:

but thats your personal opinion right? Islamically, a man can be interested in different girls at the same time. Correct me if I am wrong.

[cat eyes]

without sounding judgmental, is being British born more important to this sister than one's commitment to his deen? Just a question to think about.

if he wasnt british born and from another country even a poor country and he feared Allah and was practicing and kind and soft hearted and implemented the sunnah of the prophet (saw) then yes i would marry him in a heartbeat. what country a brother comes from dose not bother me in the slightest

[Ar-RaYYan]

hmm. Wow. Anything unique with being "British born?" Nationalism in disguise of preferences? Just an honest question.

No I dont think its about nationalism at all. What they are trying to say is (i think) that they will be able to communicate easier with someone who knows fluent English as they may not know their mother tongue very well. Also someone growing up in the west may have a different upbringing ,opinions and views to someone who has lived all their lives 'back home and therefore they may not be compatible .

[CosmicPathos]

if he wasnt british born and from another country even a poor country and he feared Allah and was practicing and kind and soft hearted and implemented the sunnah of the prophet (saw) then yes i would marry him in a heartbeat. what country a brother comes from dose not bother me in the slightest

jazakAllah for an opinion based on Islamic priniciples and logic.

[Cabdullahi]

if he wasnt british born and from another country even a poor country and he feared Allah and was practicing and kind and soft hearted and implemented the sunnah of the prophet (saw) then yes i would marry him in a heartbeat. what country a brother comes from dose not bother me in the slightest

a load of botox!

[cat eyes]

a load of botox!

thats what you believe because you live in u.k and you see so many people worrying about these types of things. all my friends they are not model looking and they don't even have visa but there husbands are doctors so they have residence here..they are more good looking then there wives would u believe that maybe because you come from a certain place in u.k where material things matter but if you are pious muslim u will not care about these things. we should strive for jannah inshaAllah and not worry about what position that person is in maybe he or she is a pious muslim or muslimah but you are rejecting them for all the wrong reasons

[Cabdullahi]

thats what you believe because you live in u.k and you see so many people worrying about these types of things. all my friends they are not model looking and they don't even have visa but there husbands are doctors so they have residence here..they are more good looking then there wives would u believe that maybe because you come from a certain place in u.k where material things matter but if you are pious muslim u will not care about these things. we should strive for jannah inshaAllah and not worry about what position that person is in maybe he or she is a pious muslim or muslimah but you are rejecting them for all the wrong reasons

I don't believe in the materialistic way of choosing a spouse that she must be rich or she must be looking like a model.What a muslim guy should look at is how she conducts herself in her public life to get an idea of her religiosity and not to meddle in her private life because she may have done something she regretted and has asked allah for forgiveness

and my post above about the 'botox' is just me kidding.....Mashallah you are on the right track on delivering the requirements of choosing a husband