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View Full Version : Debate on Circumcision (from medical pov)



Al-Indunisiy
01-08-2010, 12:12 PM
:sl:

Disclamer: I posted this thread merely in order to start a healthy debate from the medical point of view. I have no intention on offending Muslims, Jews and anyone who has been circumcised. I chose this topic just because it is controversial, and controversial themes are so tempting to me.)

So, as to trigger the debate I shall introduce the initial materials.

1. The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus
http://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=130

2. A series of videos from one whose Youtube account is 'jamesters' concerning circumcision. Although he is not an expert (and goofs of a bit in the video, and a little bit offensive), but I think his views are worth considering.
(For sisters, I recommend to not seeing the video, just hear the voice)
Part 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vzVF...eature=channel
Part 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOH8F...eature=related
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yF_e...eature=related

3. http://mens-sexual-health.suite101.c...t_circumcision

4. http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...full/105/3/681

:wa:
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Al-Indunisiy
01-08-2010, 01:03 PM
1. The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus
http://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=130
sorry, I forgot to complete the sentence, it should be:

The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus have an impact in their performance in gymnastics and sports such as soccer.
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Ramadhan
01-09-2010, 02:58 AM
I have no medical background, but I once worked in capacity as a program officer for two years with an international organization who provided national support to the local implementation of GF-ATM (Global Fund for AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria).
Throughout my work there, i gained so much knowledge about every facets of HIV/AIDS from national and world experts in HIV/AIDS.
One of those is my surprise finding that circumcision DOES PREVENT the HIV transmission by as much as 50% in heterosexual sex in controlled trials.

Here's some info more info:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...Cr=unaids&Cr1=

9 September 2009 – Male circumcision is a cost-effective means to prevent the spread of HIV, according to a new United Nations-backed report, which found that one HIV infection could be averted for every five to 15 procedures performed on heterosexual men.

Additionally, despite studies confirming that circumcision could decrease female-to-male HIV transmission by 60 per cent, the procedure does not directly protect women from the virus, the report said.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0415074940.htm

Male Circumcision Reduces HIV Risk: No Further Evidence Needed, According To Review

ScienceDaily (Apr. 15, 2009) — Three recent African trials support male circumcision for reducing the risk of contracting HIV in heterosexual men. After including new data from these trials in their review, Cochrane Researchers have changed their previous conclusions that there was insufficient evidence to recommend circumcision as an intervention to prevent HIV infection in heterosexual men.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0223103150.htm

ScienceDaily (Feb. 23, 2007) — Male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of acquiring HIV in young African men, according to a study led by University of Illinois at Chicago professor of epidemiology Robert Bailey.
The study is published in the Feb. 24 issue of The Lancet.


http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/63744.php

The scientific case for circumcising men as a way to prevent HIV from spreading in Africa is compelling. The realizaton of this evidence is as dramatic as the discovery of HIV and AIDS in the first place.

However, now the science is done, the challenge is how to make it safe, affordable and accessible in countries already burdened with a range of healthcare programmes for tackling the HIV epidemic.

Three studies, two conducted in Kenya and Uganda recently, and an earlier one in South Africa, show that male circumcision reduces the risk of HIV infection in males by 50 to 60 per cent.
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Ramadhan
01-09-2010, 03:05 AM
We see that more and more latest discoveries in science and medicine confirm that Islamic teachings and practices are the best and most balanced way to live life.

In the case of circumcision, the prophets were circumcised and commanded their people to circumcise their male children.
But most unfortunate for Eesa a.s., after his death, his misguided followers claimed that circumcision was not to be done on their male children.
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Ramadhan
01-09-2010, 03:19 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
:sl:

Disclamer: I posted this thread merely in order to start a healthy debate from the medical point of view. I have no intention on offending Muslims, Jews and anyone who has been circumcised. I chose this topic just because it is controversial, and controversial themes are so tempting to me.)

So, as to trigger the debate I shall introduce the initial materials.

1. The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus
http://www.glorialemay.com/blog/?p=130
This is a blog of some yoga teacher who "observed" that some of her students could not do proper cobra pose and she concluded that is because those students are circumcised. How scientific. Right.

I have been practicing yoga for 3 years on and off, and I can do proper cobra pose very perfectly with my hips on the floor and my lower body is actually very flexible and I am circumcised.

2. A series of videos from one whose Youtube account is 'jamesters' concerning circumcision. Although he is not an expert (and goofs of a bit in the video, and a little bit offensive), but I think his views are worth considering.
The introduction alone makes these youtubes a must watch for those interested in the subject of circumcision. not.
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CosmicPathos
01-09-2010, 03:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
sorry, I forgot to complete the sentence, it should be:

The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus have an impact in their performance in gymnastics and sports such as soccer.
the pediatrics article is from 2000. 10 years is like eternity in scientific world now.
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Al-Indunisiy
01-09-2010, 03:56 AM
Anymore views, sources, etc., anyone?
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ardianto
01-09-2010, 10:34 AM
:sl:

I have a circumcised non-Muslim friend. An Indonesian Chinese.

He did it when he was 21, and his reason was "circumcised is better for health".
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Chuck
01-10-2010, 01:26 AM
Brothers have already responded with good responses. But something anybody can understand that it is good for cleanses and hygiene. Counter argument is that if uncer. person keeps clean than it is same. Well it would be good, but it makes it cleanness and hygiene easier. Same way if somebody keeps the nails clean without cutting them than it would be clean too, but still not cutting the nails would be better for cleanliness and hygiene?

But the most important thing for me is not any material benefits, they are just the added bonuses. It is sunnah of the prophets since Abraham (pbuh) and a sign of convent with Allah Almighty, that is enough reason for me.
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Al-Indunisiy
01-10-2010, 04:57 AM
:sl:

I found some more materials:
1. http://www.circumstitions.com/Sexuality.html#resources
2. http://www.missionislam.com/health/c...sionislam.html(note: See the medic parts only)
3. http://www.quranicpath.com/misconcep...cumcision.html(note: See the medic parts only)

Pro:
1. http://www.circinfo.net/
2. http://www.malecircumcision.org/
3. http://www.circs.org/library/index.html
4. http://medicirc.org/

Con:
1. http://www.nocirc.org/
2. http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/
3. http://www.intactamerica.org/learnmore
4. http://www.monitor.co.ug/OpEd/Commen...z/-/index.html
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Al-Indunisiy
01-10-2010, 05:07 AM
Plus from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_controversies

and a video: http://videos.med.wisc.edu/videoInfo.php?videoid=1225

and some more:
criticism of Pro: http://www.norm-uk.org/circumcision_myths.html
criticism of Con: http://www.circinfo.com/myths/myths_and_lies1.html
Reply

جوري
01-12-2010, 06:49 PM
Circumcise or not? Parents, you’re on your own

Two medical journals take disparate stances within just one week

A lack of consensus in the medical community about circumcision leaves many parents to make a choice for their baby based on whether the father had the procedure.

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Analysis
By Brian Alexander
msnbc.com contributor
updated 8:23 a.m. ET, Tues., Jan. 12, 2010


Brian Alexander
• E-mail


Over just the past week, two reputable medical journals published articles on male circumcision and came to totally different conclusions, leaving parents of newborn boys with a stark realization they are on their own, without a consensus from the medical profession.
In the most recent issue of the Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, Dr. Thomas Quinn of Johns Hopkins University and colleagues argue that the American Academy of Pediatrics ought to revise its circumcision policy which states that scientific evidence of potential medical benefits is “not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.” The essay’s authors want new guidelines to reflect recent and substantial evidence of circumcision’s health benefits.
Meanwhile, in the Annals of Family Medicine, Caryn Perera of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons in Adelaide, Australia, and colleagues argue that “current evidence fails to recommend widespread neonatal circumcision.”
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here


The two groups of authors came to their disparate conclusions after looking at the same set of evidence and making a judgment call — pretty much what new parents have been expected to do since routine male circumcision became a political issue more than 25 years ago.
As a result some parents find themselves wrestling with the decision. Posts on message boards visited by parents-to-be reflect the problem: “So much pressure from family friends to get it done, but my gut told me not to” wrote Kelly714 on the Café Mom Web site.
Collin Childers, a 25-year-old first-time father had his son Colton circumcised two days ago at Sharp Mary Birch Hospital for Women & Newborns in San Diego. Nobody gave him advice either way, he said, and Childers didn’t really do any research on the issue. He ultimately decided that since most men he knew, including his family members were all circumcised and since he’d heard that “it’s cleaner, it doesn’t allow bacteria to grow,” Colton would join the family tradition.

Click for related content

Poll: Parents, did you choose to circumcise your son?


Family precedent is how many such decisions are made — like father, like son, said Dr. Jean Robertson, a pediatrician in Lancaster, Ohio.
“I would have to say that most infants whose fathers are circumcised end up getting circumcised,” she said. When parents are conflicted, she said, they don’t usually ask about health benefits, they ask about the pain of the surgery and most parents who get their newborn boys circumcised “desire it for the cosmetic effects.”
The lack of consensus leaves a wide opening for anti-circumcision campaigners. Just as actress-turned-autism-activist Jenny McCarthy’s scare mongering over childhood vaccines only makes the job of parents tougher, so-called “intactivists,” are trying to scare parents with wild hyperbole like equating circumcision to female genital mutilation — which is about like equating an appendectomy with an amputation.
In this age when parents agonize over pre-natal kindergarten enrollment, finding organic strained peas and which brand of $1,000-stroller will survive an impact with an Escalade, who needs foreskin angst? Especially when the issue isn’t really that complicated.
Circumcision has been around since before recorded history. Still, most American males were not circumcised routinely until the post-World War II era. Today about 80 percent of American males are circumcised, though rates vary by region.
As of 1999, the latest figures available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 81.4 percent of all baby boys in the Midwest were being circumcised, compared to 36.7 percent of baby boys in the West. On the East Coast, 65.4 percent of baby boys were circumcised.
The regional difference is at least partly explained by prevailing attitudes among ethnic groups, with Hispanic boys being much less likely to be circumcised.
Anti-circumcision movement
Starting in the late 1980s a no-circumcision movement began questioning the practice.
Anti-circumcision campaigners focus their objections on several issues. First, they accurately point out that the foreskin is rich in nerves and that cutting it away removes erogenous tissue.
Second, they argue that circumcision is usually medically unnecessary surgery and that it carries risks like bleeding or infection. Most men, they say, never have a problem with their foreskins and if parents are willing to hold a brief hygiene seminar — and the penis’s owner is willing to perform some simple routine maintenance — there is no reason why they should. Any possible benefits of circumcision are hypothetical at best, they say.
Finally, they argue that the decision doesn’t really belong to the parents — it belongs to the baby boy, and he’s in no position to conduct a risk/benefit analysis.
Those arguments are not necessarily wrong, just woefully incomplete.
Your newborn son’s sexual pleasure may not be much on your mind, but eventually it will be on his mind, so parents may fear that cutting away erogenous tissue might be a sin the young man will never forgive.
In an editorial accompanying the Pediatrics essay, Dr. Michael T. Brady of Ohio State University points out that studies on circumcision and sexual pleasure are all over the map, leaving parents once again without clear guidance on that point.
The possible complications cited by intactivists, Brady told me, are “exceedingly rare.” Circumcision does carry very small risks for bleeding and for infection, but, he said, these have been minimized. One big change in the last generation is that babies are now given pain medication before and sometimes after surgery. In the past, baby boys had to tough it out.
Medically necessary?
A more nuanced issue is whether circumcising newborns is “medically necessary” surgery. By the usual definitions it’s not. Circumcision does not cure anything and a foreskin isn’t a deformity. This is partly the basis for Perera’s objections.
She does, however, acknowledge the validity of new data on preventing sexually transmitted diseases, the same data that led Quinn and colleagues to lean the other way. These studies show that circumcision reduces the risks of HIV infection and other viral STDs like herpes and HPV, the human papilloma virus, some strains of which can cause penile and cervical cancer. There is some evidence that male circumcision reduces the risks of bacterial STDs, too.
Male circumcision also has other preventive benefits, too, such as reducing the risk of urinary tract infections, especially in boys younger than a year old.
Confusion arises because these are possible benefits, not a sure thing. As Brady told me, on one hand “your child may be one that is spared getting HIV,” but on the other hand, “he may never even have that risk” in the first place.
There are two other non-medical points that parents often consider, ones most doctors won’t mention because they aren’t politically correct considerations: convenience and looks. Circumcision can be more convenient for parents and for the boy. Second, with four out of five males in the U.S. circumcised, at some point after his first gym class you may have to take that non-circumcised chip off the old block to a museum to show him some Greek urns so he understands that he is perfectly normal.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34811764...and_parenting/
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Cabdullahi
01-12-2010, 06:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Indunisiy
sorry, I forgot to complete the sentence, it should be:

The notion that circumcised boys have less flexible lower bodies, and thus have an impact in their performance in gymnastics and sports such as soccer.


Brother you come here trying to tease us that all the brothers who are circumcised cannot do a cobra pose ?......so what
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cat eyes
01-12-2010, 07:10 PM
why is this even an issue. men are meant to be circumcised simple as that
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Al-Indunisiy
01-13-2010, 06:19 AM
Brother you come here trying to tease us that all the brothers who are circumcised cannot do a cobra pose ?......so what
No, I have no intention to tease.
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syilla
01-13-2010, 06:37 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii
Brother you come here trying to tease us that all the brothers who are circumcised cannot do a cobra pose ?......so what
lol ;D

But i'm sure a lot of muslimah will think twice to accept those who are not. :hiding:
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