I would like some help and advice please.

[Angie]

Hello to you all,
As you will see from my profile I am not a muslim. My son has recently converted to Islam and all of our family are happy with his decision. Through his work he has met a muslim woman and would like to approach her family. She is quite happy about this although when she spoke to her Sister in Law regarding my son, she was told that he was white and a convert and as such would not be welcome as a suitor for her. I was under the impression that this is not the true way of Islam, I was told that him being a convert and white should not affect the way in which other Muslims look at him. I can understand if her family have some other reasons for not allowing him to approach their family but for their reasons to be purely based on his colour and his recent conversion seem to me to be against Islamic teachings. I do not have a full understanding of the Islamic way of life but would like some one to explain to me if her family are justified in treating him this way. I thank you all in advance for allowing me to become a member of this Board and would welcome your thoughts on the matter.

[Abdul Qadir]

Hello to you all,
As you will see from my profile I am not a muslim. My son has recently converted to Islam and all of our family are happy with his decision. Through his work he has met a muslim woman and would like to approach her family. She is quite happy about this although when she spoke to her Sister in Law regarding my son, she was told that he was white and a convert and as such would not be welcome as a suitor for her. I was under the impression that this is not the true way of Islam, I was told that him being a convert and white should not affect the way in which other Muslims look at him. I can understand if her family have some other reasons for not allowing him to approach their family but for their reasons to be purely based on his colour and his recent conversion seem to me to be against Islamic teachings. I do not have a full understanding of the Islamic way of life but would like some one to explain to me if her family are justified in treating him this way. I thank you all in advance for allowing me to become a member of this Board and would welcome your thoughts on the matter.

this might be a case of something other than islam...for example, they might want to preserve their tradition...e.g. if they are indians, they want someone who is an indian to preserve their culture...or, in islamic terms, they might want someone with a bit more religious knowledge and zeal rather than a new convert (though personally i find converts are way more hungry for knowledge and their attitude towards the religion is better than most normal muslims)....i have seen cases like this before..i hope ur not too quick to judge...maybe someone who is more knowledgeable than me can reply to this post?

[Ali_008]

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Source

This was said by Prophet Muhammad :saws: in his last sermon. It is clear from that text that any kind of discrimination is not allowed in Islam. The problem faced by your son is pretty usual and many converts aren't welcomed by all Muslims. Muslim families have their own inhibitions about reverts. So whatever reservations, the girl's family is holding is totally their own and it is not part of Islam.

I hope and pray that this marriage takes place without much inconvenience to anyone.

Apart from directly going ahead with this girl, ask your son to perform Istikhara, If this marriage is beneficial for him then Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala) will make the road easier for him inshAllah.

[Abdul Qadir]

This was said by Prophet Muhammad :saws: in his last sermon. It is clear from that text that any kind of discrimination is not allowed in Islam. The problem faced by your son is pretty usual and many converts aren't welcomed by all Muslims. Muslim families have their own inhibitions about reverts. So whatever reservations, the girl's family is holding is totally their own and it is not part of Islam.

I hope and pray that this marriage takes place without much inconvenience to anyone.

Apart from directly going ahead with this girl, ask your son to perform Istikhara, If this marriage is beneficial for him then Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala) will make the road easier for him inshAllah.

=)...ur name is Ali, but im sure ur not a shia..coz the hadith u quoted about Muhammad SAW, abu bakr, umar Khattab and Uthman on a mountain is the hadith used to refute the Shia...

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[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.... he was white and a convert and as such would not be welcome as a suitor for her. .

there is no bar against marrying a white and revert . But sometimes parent fear that their daughter might not be welcomed in a non-Muslim family . And may be he accepted Islam just to marry her . In that case , he is not a Muslim . Also , there will be a cultural gap.

If she is from another country , then later if husband wants to move to his country , they won't be able to see her easily. If she faces any problem in married life , from distance parent won't be able to support her etc etc.

As already suggested , tell ur son and that girl to offer Istekhara prayer. It's a special prayer for seeking guidance from God.

[Angie]

Thank you for your replies, it appears from what my son has been told, that her family is bangladeshi, and her father died four years ago, so her elder brother is now the head of the family and they are apparently concerned about what the bangladeshi community in which live will think, they have told her that she will shame them

[Angie]

My son is trying so hard, he is studying every night and even though Islam is alien to me I admire his hard work and dedication so much. I am proud of my son following the path that has been shown to him.

[Angie]

Dear Muslim Woman,
My son is white and english, she is bangladeshi but was born in England along with her brothers and sisters, and has attended main stream schools and works in a multi cultural environment. Could her family disown her if she does decide that this is the right path for them, I am sorry i am asking what may seem riduculous questions, but as I have said I am trying to learn but have no one that i can ask these questions.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

...they are apparently concerned about what the bangladeshi community in which live will think, they have told her that she will shame them

if he really is a Muslim , then there is no shame for any Muslim girl marrying him .

In my country ( Bangladesh) , at least in one case I know , the boy became a Muslim before marriage and after returing to England , he became Christian again.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.. Could her family disown her if she does decide that this is the right path for them,.

In my country , this is considered as a very bad behaviour if a girl ( even a boy ) goes agianst family about marriage . Arranged marriage is still very common and leave home and marrying secretly is unaccepted .

There is an opinion that if a girl marries secretly ( without the permission of her guardian) , then it's not a valid marriage.

And God knows Best.

[Angie]

He had already reverted before he met her, so she is not the reason for him choosing Islam.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

QUOTE=Angie;1275508]He had already reverted before he met her, so she is not the reason for him choosing Islam.[/QUOTE]


then his all sins are washed away and now he is like a sinless angel :)

There should be no problem for any Muslim family accepting him as son- in- law. Specially if they are settled down in the west and don't want to come back here .

[aamirsaab]

:sl:
It might be better to find another candidate. There's nothing worse than having horrible in-laws.

Well apart from a divorce.

Oh look a penny.

[UmmSqueakster]

Angie, welcome to the board! I'm so happy that you're being supportive of your son. My parents like to pretend my conversion never happened, and that was almost a decade ago :hmm:

Just from casually observing the muslim community, I do believe convert brothers have a harder time finding spouses among born muslims than do convert sisters. But, don't lose hope, there are sisters out there for him! My husband and I are friends with two couples. The husbands are both white converts and the wives are both somali sisters.

I think if he works to learn the religion, and becomes more known in the community as a good brother, inshaAllah more sisters will give him a chance :statisfie

[Ali_008]

=)...ur name is Ali, but im sure ur not a shia..coz the hadith u quoted about Muhammad SAW, abu bakr, umar Khattab and Uthman on a mountain is the hadith used to refute the Shia...

I'm not a Shi'a at all. I'm a complete Muslim who believes in all the Prophets and all the Caliphs. Ali is just half of my name. 95% of the people call me Ali and so I used it here and I love it as well. And Hadhrat Uthman (RadhiAllahu Anhu) is my mosttttttttttttt favorite Sahabi to say a little more. :D

[Insaanah]

Welcome to the forum Angie.

Actually this is completely a cultural issue rather than a religious one. People are so used to marrying within their culture, that it feels "wrong" to them to marry outside of the culture.

As the brother quoted above:
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood..."

It might be an idea to ask if her brother would be willing to spend time with your son to see what he is all about?

Islamically, the girl will not be able to marry without the approval of her guardian (in this case, her brother), so her brother needs to see what your son is really like. Is it possible to suggest that to him? Also, this will give your son a chance to see what they would be like as in-laws.

I can't suggest much else, I'm afraid.

[Angie]

Thank you all for you kind help, I will pass your comments to my son and they may help him although I believe he has his heart set upon this lovely young lady, and he truly feels that she is the one for him. With a little help and understanding from above he may succeed. I know he will make a fine husband for her if they are just given the chance. Once again many thanks to you all, if there is any news I will pass it on and possibly we may all be able to celebrate together.

[Insaanah]

Certainly, please do let us know. Also do let us know if there's any other help or advice that we might be able to offer to you or your son. We're all here to help.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

...
Islamically, the girl will not be able to marry without the approval of her guardian (in this case, her brother), .

what if mother gives permission ?

[syilla]

^^^ i don't think so, because now the wali is her brother. So she needs to seek his permission.

[AhmadibnNasroon]

I'm so sick of asabiyya.

If only people knew what the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam said regarding these affairs.

One thing your son will have to learn to deal with is racism amongst Muslims. He will find it in every aspect of his life and will find much segregation amongst Muslims do to this thing called nationalism. Unfortunetly it is the current state of our ummah and the shaytaan is loving every minute of it.

Everytime a Muslim calls another Muslim 'abeed".

Everytime a family rejects a suitor due to his tribe.

Everytime someone enslaves someone in their country to build their manmade Islands which, inshaAllah, Allah will destroy.

Everytime someone rejects a persons brotherhood/sisterhood, friendship, love and kindness, because of where he/she is from.

Everytime someone is not welcomed into someone else's home, walima, and other gatherings because of where they are.

EVERYTIME this happens...the shaytaan laughs at us and rejoices over the further demise of this ummah. The shaytaan loves the fact that WE love culture. So much so that we're willing to turn the other way when our brother starves but when someone from our land suffers it suddenly matters.

We won't learn, so let us suffer, so amongst those who know better, do better, and be patient with the suffering we as an ummah will face.

Ms. Angie, I truly apologize for the actions of our people, and know that is not part of Islam to have this kind of behavior. I encourage you to continue to learn Islam through your son and authentic sources. May Allah bless you with the guidance of Islam and may Allah free this ummah from asabiyya.

[Insaanah]

:sl:
what if mother gives permission ?

:sl: sister :)

Wali can only be a male. A female cannot be a wali, not even the mother.

:sl:

[Abdul Qadir]

:sl: sister :)

Wali can only be a male. A female cannot be a wali, not even the mother.

:sl:

ok, wali can be a male, but must the wali be related to her?

[YusufNoor]

Thank you all for you kind help, I will pass your comments to my son and they may help him although I believe he has his heart set upon this lovely young lady, and he truly feels that she is the one for him. With a little help and understanding from above he may succeed. I know he will make a fine husband for her if they are just given the chance. Once again many thanks to you all, if there is any news I will pass it on and possibly we may all be able to celebrate together.

welcome to the forum and thank you and may Allal reward you for being so supportive of your son embracing Islam.

this is probably extremely tough on your son, but perhaps you can tell him that no matter how beautiful or special he believes this woman is, that Islam is even MORE special and beautiful!

he should relax a bit and spend some quality time learning more abut his Din [an Arabic word that means way of life as well as religion]. i am also a revert, but Alhumdulillah [all heartfelt thanks and praise are for Allah] that Allah has guided me to some of the most beautiful representatives of Islam in the English language.

the Mufti of Zimbabwe, Ismail ibn Musa Menk, is an absolutely phenomenal speaker! his English is better than mine and his title Mufti means that he is an expert in ALL matters of Islam! ask your son to listen to some of these lectures:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol1.html

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol2.html

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Tafseer2009.html

those are all from the same site and you can see the topics, but this set in particular is one of the most remarkable i have ever heard. what it does is tell the stories of when and why some of the Ayats [verses] of he Qur'an were revealed:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Tafseer2005.html

another brother, Dr Bashir Shala is a cardiologist in Tennessee. his Seerah, life of the Prophet, is important in understanding Islam as many Ayats in the Qur'an are historical and learning why certain Ayats were revealed enables you to understand Islam in a more complete manner:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...wi%20%28saw%29

Bashir, in the above link has restarted the Seerah in order for the recordings to be better and the first were from the early 00's and his sound man, Brother Jamal Usmani was just learning how to record and upload. the original series is here:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...t%20%28pbuh%29

Brother Bashir also did a set on the Qur'an, here:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me...s%20of%20Quran

of which these here, stories from Surah Al Kahf are great with #3, The Man of the 2 Gardens is superb:

http://www.pleasantviewschool.com/me..._Surah_Al-Kahf

a Canadian brother with a PhD in Islamic studies, Dr Bilal Philips has painstakingly translated many Islamic classic into English and also runs an Academy. many of his lectures are available here in the download section:

http://www.bilalphilips.com/index.php

while Brother Philips' Arabic is no way near as eloquent as Mufti Menk or
Dr Shala, his effort to make a complete study of Islam in the English language has been very fruitful. he also has some free online course available here:

http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.c...rses&Itemid=20

the courses have free down-loadable texts, video and or audio lectures. i am very fond of the foundations of Islamic Studies course and i recommend that your son watch the 1st six hours or so. it really does establish the basis of Islam.

again, May Allah reward you for supporting your son!

:wa:

[syilla]

ok, wali can be a male, but must the wali be related to her?

I don't think is proper to skip the brother's approval to marry. At least the couple should try their best first to win the brother's heart.

The wali has to be relatives unless they have permissions in shariah (for valid reasons) to use wali (a valid one) not blood related.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

I don't think is proper to skip the brother's approval to marry. .

I read a hadith long ago that says something like that : Prophet pbuh said to discuss with mother when a proposal comes for daughter .

It's a clear sign that mother can understand a daughter more than a bro can understnad his sis . So , if an adult girl gives consent , if her mother agrees , then is it ok for a bro to disagree ? Also , specially when a proposal comes from a religious person ?

There is another hadith that says , no parent should ojbect if proposal comes from a pious Muslim , else fitnah will spread out.

And Allah knows Best.

[syilla]

:sl:



I read a hadith long ago that says something like that : Prophet pbuh said to discuss with mother when a proposal comes for daughter .

It's a clear sign that mother can understand a daughter more than a bro can understnad his sis . So , if an adult girl gives consent , if her mother agrees , then is it ok for a bro to disagree ? Also , specially when a proposal comes from a religious person ?

I'm not sure about this, need to be answered by a more knowledgeable mod/forumners.

There is another hadith that says , no parent should ojbect if proposal comes from a pious Muslim , else fitnah will spread out.

And Allah knows Best.

yes it is true...but is only a warning to them and they have the right to choose.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Islam has not forbidden the family or the mother from discussing or agreeing with regards to marriage proposal, however without the wali's approval no marriage cannot go ahead. The wali's job is not to just give consent or approval. The job of the wali is to have responsibility to make sure he is giving his ward in marriage to a man that will be good for her. It is the job of the wali to make all necessary enquiries so that the girl herself does not have to mix with men and perhaps be duped into marrying someone unsuitable. He must be sane, mature, and rightly guided adult.

The prophet sallallahu alahi wa salllam said, "There is no marriage except with a wali." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, an-Nasai, at-Tirmidhi, ibn- Maajah, al-Haakim)

and

"If any woman marries herself without the permission of her wali, then her marriage is void, then her marriage is void, then her marriage is void." (Ahmad, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi, ibn- Maajah, al-Haakim)

The wali must be one of the male relatives of the woman. The scholars differ as to the exact order that the job is fulfilled, depending on who is alive and available. One order is father, paternal grandfather, son, grandson, full brother, paternal half brother, paternal uncle.

He must marry the woman on the basis of her best interests and not his interest. Therefore if someone who is qualified to marry the woman asks for her hand and she accepts him, then he must marry him to her. He should not cause deliberate obstacles. However he is not guided by her desires either. He does not simply marry a woman to a man because she likes him. He must be guided by loftier principles and make sure that the person's character and religion are acceptable. If not, then he should refuse the marriage. This is part of the purpose of wilayah that the woman may not be guided by proper principles or she may not be aware of what some men are all about. Therefore his role is to make sure that he is marrying her to the best person available according to the standards required for marriage. This is a grave trust and responsibility and he must do his best to fulfil it properly and not harm the woman.

This link has some information on the conditions for a wali:

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2127/...%20%20marriage

Allah knows best.

:sl:

[Abdul Qadir]

I don't think is proper to skip the brother's approval to marry. At least the couple should try their best first to win the brother's heart.

The wali has to be relatives unless they have permissions in shariah (for valid reasons) to use wali (a valid one) not blood related.

Jazakullahu Khair...

[Proud.Hijaabi]

Angie, welcome to the board! I'm so happy that you're being supportive of your son. My parents like to pretend my conversion never happened, and that was almost a decade ago :hmm:

Just from casually observing the muslim community, I do believe convert brothers have a harder time finding spouses among born muslims than do convert sisters. But, don't lose hope, there are sisters out there for him! My husband and I are friends with two couples. The husbands are both white converts and the wives are both somali sisters.

I think if he works to learn the religion, and becomes more known in the community as a good brother, inshaAllah more sisters will give him a chance :statisfie

:sl:
That's so cool.
I'm Somali and my mother tells me that she wouldn't mind if I married a white man either. However, the problem is the keeping of one's tradition/culture in the future family and children (I can barely speak Somali).
To Angie,
In my opinion I think that your son converting is an amazing story and I'd like to say Mashallah (Is that how you spell it?) I'm only 17 so I'll try my best here. I think the problem really is that if the two were to get married, what would happen to her side of the family? How will she be able to raise her side of the family? Will the children be able to retain their Bangladeshi culture? Many people are proud of where they come from and would like to see their children, grandchildren, etc. be of the same culture. There are many people out there (well I'm one of them) who are of one culture and are barely able to retain it right now. I speak very limted amount of Somali. If the family of the woman you deascribe speak their language and are firmly rooted in the culture it is easy to see where the problem lies. And you are right. Muslim brothers and sisters are brothers and sisters no matter what. Thy should discriminate against each other due to their skin colour or the languages or culture etc (you get it). Tell your son that what he has done (converting or reverting) is amazing and if this doesn't work out, there are other Muslim sisters out there that would appreciate a devoted Muslim as a husband.:D

[hanif_]

:sl:

Ukh Angie:

Sukhranallah for your honest view. It is a widely held view. The practice of Islam actually when implemented eliminates the nationalism when an Islamic State is established. (Khalipha)

During the times of Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) when Islam spread and Muslim's migrated or immigrated they intermarried other Muslims. The tribal pride remained then and continues now. Slaves were manumitted and married. Marriages occurred on every migration. (Abyssinia, etc)

49:13 (Y. Ali) O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

[Angie]

Hello, my Friends. It has been a long time since I updated the story of my son and the young lady who he wishes to marry. IT IS FANTASTIC NEWS, after much anguish and prayer by both of these young people, her Guardian now understands that these two are right for each other and their Nikkah is taking place on Saturday 17th July with the full agreement of her family. We are all so happy, thank you everyone for your help and advice in the early part of this year. I just wanted to let you all know that we have a happy outcome and two very happy young people. I am looking forward to witnessing this important occasion. Once again, thank you all very much for your kindness in explaining many things that were alien to me. I wish you all well for the future. Angie ( an extemely happy nearly Mother in Law).

[جوري]

Congratulations Angie, may they find peace, happiness and contentedness in one another and be a positive example and do God's work in this life and be granted heaven's high meed in the hereafter..

I am happy for you and especially your son!

peace

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Greetings,

Hello, my Friends. It has been a long time since I updated the story of my son and the young lady who he wishes to marry. IT IS FANTASTIC NEWS, after much anguish and prayer by both of these young people, her Guardian now understands that these two are right for each other and their Nikkah is taking place on Saturday 17th July with the full agreement of her family. We are all so happy, thank you everyone for your help and advice in the early part of this year. I just wanted to let you all know that we have a happy outcome and two very happy young people. I am looking forward to witnessing this important occasion. Once again, thank you all very much for your kindness in explaining many things that were alien to me. I wish you all well for the future. Angie ( an extemely happy nearly Mother in Law).

congratulations to your son and your daughter-in-law to be. may Allah fulfill theirs (and yours) lives with happiness in this world and the hereafter and grant them pious offspring.

[glo]

Hello, my Friends. It has been a long time since I updated the story of my son and the young lady who he wishes to marry. IT IS FANTASTIC NEWS, after much anguish and prayer by both of these young people, her Guardian now understands that these two are right for each other and their Nikkah is taking place on Saturday 17th July with the full agreement of her family. We are all so happy, thank you everyone for your help and advice in the early part of this year. I just wanted to let you all know that we have a happy outcome and two very happy young people. I am looking forward to witnessing this important occasion. Once again, thank you all very much for your kindness in explaining many things that were alien to me. I wish you all well for the future. Angie ( an extemely happy nearly Mother in Law).

Great news, Angie! (I only just found your thread, so welcome to the forum too :))

You sound like a wonderfully loving and supportive mum. I wish you son and daughter-in-law all the very best for their married life together.

[Insaanah]

What wonderful news!

All praise be to Allah for allowing this great event to happen.

May Allah bless them, and unite them in goodness, and bestow on them pious offspring. Ameen.

[PouringRain]

Congrats! :)

[buddy1]

Heyy! Im not a muslim but i have been married twice to a muslim, my children are muslim. Im very open minded and try to make sure my kids go by everything i can! When i married my first husband, danyal, his dad couldnt stand me, but when he realised me and danyal were serious he kind of liked it and lumped it! Its was all down to me being english and white he wanted his boy to marry a good muslim and i totally understood i mean i want the best for my babies but i also want my kids to be happy in life and if it means suffering in silence if i didnt like there prospective husband or wife so be it. Maybe your son needs to proove he is the one to make their daughter happy and look after her well. :-)

[kite runner]

aww congratulations!! you are so supportive and understanding which is great :D I wish your son and daughter-in-law a blessed and happy marriage, try exploring Islam for yourself because you seem genuinely interested :D

[Zafran]

salaam

congrats

peace

[Rhubarb Tart]

Congrats!

:)

[__follower]

hey thats a gud news
congrats hope they will live happpily