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Shahreaz
02-25-2010, 05:49 PM
Just found this interesting article while browsing..

India's God Krishna Was the King of Jerusalem!

By Gene D. Matlock


What a strange world in which we live! The Catholic Church has always known that Christianity did not begin with Jesus Christ, but yet it tries to make us think it did. St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) wrote: "This, in our day, is the Christian religion, not as having been unknown in former times, but as having recently received that name."

Eusebius of Caesarea (circa 283-371 AD) said: "The religion of Jesus Christ is neither new nor strange."

In Anacalypsis, The 17th century British orientalist and iconoclast, Godfrey Higgins, insisted that Christianity was already firmly in place in both the West and the East, many centuries before Jesus Christ was born. He said, The Crestians or Christians of the West probably descended directly from the Buddhists, rather than from the Brahmins. (Vol. 2, pp 438, 439.)

The existence of the Christians both in Europe and India, (existed) long anterior to the Christian era... (Vol 2, p. 202.) I think the most blind and credulous of devotees must allow that we have the existence of the Cristna of the Brahmins in Thrace, many hundred years before the Christian era-the birth of Jesus Christ. (Book X, p. 593.)

"Melito (a Christian bishop of Sardis) in the year 170, claims the patronage of the emperor, for the now so-called Christian religion, which he calls "our philosophy," on account of its high antiquity, has having been imported from countries lying beyond the limits of the Roman empire, in the region of his ancestor Augustus, who found the importation ominous of good fortune to his government." This is an absolute demonstration that Christianity did not originate in Judea, which was a Roman province, but really was an exotic oriental fable, imported from India, and that Paul was doing as he claimed, viz: preaching a God manifest in the flesh who had been "believed in the world" centuries before his time, and a doctrine which had already been preached "unto every creature under heaven." (Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions; T. W. Doane, p. 409.)

Religious historians have for hundreds of years struggled to find out how and why the stories about Jesus and Krishna, who were born 2,000 years apart, are so nearly identical.

  • Both Christ and Krishna descended from Noah.
  • The future births of both messiahs were predicted ahead of time.
  • Christ was descended from Abraham
  • Krishna was the father of Abraham (Brahma).
  • Christ was at once a Koresh, a Hebrew, and a Yehudi.
  • Krishna was at once a Kurus, an Abhira, and a Yadava.
  • Christ was an incarnation of Yah-Veh.
  • Krishna was at once an incarnation of Vishnu and Shiva.
  • Christ's first name, Jesus, was Yeshua.
  • A title of Krishna, meaning "love; devotion," was Yesu. Even today, many Hindu parents name their sons, Yesu Krishna.
  • Both men were born of virgins and in a stable.
  • Krishna's mother was named Devaki.
  • Jesus mother was called Mary.
  • Krishna did not have an earthly father as such, but a protector, named Vasudeva.
  • Jesus did not have an earthly father as such, but a mortal protector named Joseph.
  • An evil king tried to kill Christ and Krishna when they were both infants.
  • To protect the infant Jesus, Joseph and Mary took him to Maturai, Egypt.
  • To protect the infant Krishna, his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, took him to Mathura, India.
  • It was predicted that both men would die to atone for the sins of their people.
  • As you have probably noticed, they took refuge in places having almost identical names.
  • Both men preached to their people.
  • Christ was crucified and then resurrected. Krishna was killed by a hunter's arrow and impaled on a tree. Later, he returned to life.
  • Christ was crucified in Jerusalem.
  • Some Hindu scholars think that Krishna died in Jerusalem, having gone there when his coastal city of Dwarka sank under the sea. Others say he went to Iraq.
  • Christ appeared after his "death." Krishna appeared after his "death."
  • Both of them have a major holiday dedicated to them on December 25th.
  • Christ had a female admirer named Mary Magdalene. Krishna had a female admirer named Marya Maghadalena.

Fanatically sectarian Christians and Hindus alike militantly reject the idea that the stories of these two deities are related. The Christians accuse the Hindus of blurring their identities on purpose. Some even claim that the Devil himself is the culprit.The Hindus reciprocate accordingly. Unfortunately, neither side can prove or disprove anything. In this article, I will attempt to clear up this mystery once and for all.

The Hindu Equivalent of our Old Testament Story of Abraham.

The story begins with our Abraham or Brahma as the Hindus called him. His father was Lord Krishna; his brother was Mahesh a.k.a Maheshvara who would be our Moses (Heb: Moshe).

The Hindu triad consists of the Gods Brahma, the equivalent of our God, and Gods Shiva and Vishnu. Actually Shiva and Vishnu are one and the same deities. Together, they are Brahma (God). Today, in India, there are only two temples dedicated to God Brahma because the Hindus say mankind is not yet ready to worship such a lofty concept.

Hindu Proof That Jesus Is the Son of God!

The Bible tells us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, for Jesus' biblical names are Isa/Isha (Shiva), Yeshua (Skt. Yishvara, pronounced in Sanskrit as Yeshwara), Kristos, and Yesu, another name of Krishna . Even in India, Lord Krishna was and still is called Yesu Krishna and Kristna. These names prove to us that Jesus was both Shiva and Vishnu, thus making Jesus the begotten son of the Unbegotten-Brahma.


Picture of Christ.


The preceding information shows us that the Hindus are as Christian as the Christians are. Morever, the Hindus can prove that Jesus was the son of God, but we have to accept this as a matter of faith only. Even so, there is no lack of Christian sects wanting the Hindus to "convert" to their way of thinking although we must credit the Hindus with the honor of proving to us that Jesus is the son of God. But the Hindus don't need to convert to the spiritual knowledge they bequeathed to us. They were "converted" thousands of years before our Jesus was born. I say, leave them be.
Since Krishna was not born of man, he was not actually the earthly father of Brahma and Mahesh. Therefore, he himself was the protector (Tara) of Brahma. In Sanskrit, Tara means "savior; protector." It is a term generally used with the gods Rudra, Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma. Even our Old Testament says that the father (protector) of Abraham was Terah (Genesis 11:26.) The Bible tells us that Abraham and Sarah were half-siblings. (Genesis 12:19-20.). The Hindu holy books also tell us that a blood relationship existed between them. The Puranas relate Sarasvati to Brahma and Vishnu. Most frequently, she is associated with Brahma. Her connection with him dates earlier than to any other God. She is portrayed mostly as his wife and occasionally as his daughter. When Vishnu's popularity in India increased, myths relating Saraswati to him appeared. (Ref: Sarasvati and the Gods; www.vishvarupa.com.) Therefore, Brahma or Vishnu would also have been the Tara (Terah) of Sarasvati because of her divine origins.


Brahm (Abraham)



Sarasvati (Sarah)

Abraham or Brahma's home was the land of Haran (Genesis 1:4.) Haran was the coastal principality governed by Krishna. It was even named after him because Hara (Sun God) is another name of Krishna. Brahma/Abraham was 75 years old when he left Haran.

Just as Christ was crucified on a cross and then returned to life, Krishna, also known as Haran, was crucified on a tree and then returned to life. This fact appears to cause some confusion in The Bible. (Read Genesis 11:26-31).

There is also another "Haran" in India-today's state of Haryana. It is the region where Abraham decided to stop making idols and worship only one God. Brahmavarta, a region in Northeastern Haryana, is said to be the place where mankind was first created. (Varta=Dwelling.) Brahmavarta was the site of the Kuruksetra War between the Kurus and Pandavas, in which Lord Krishna distinguished himself. An ancient and holy river, now dried up, the Sarasvati, once flowed through Brahmavarta. The Hakra (the biblical Haggar) was a tributary of the Sarasvati. The relationships of these three geographical entities make sense. If Brahma provided the channel or bed for the Sarasvati river, Brahmavarta could easily have been the symbolical father or brother of Sarasvati. Hakra (Haggar), being a tributary of Sarasvati, depended on Sarasvati . So what were Abraham, Sarah, and Haggar? People, things, or places?



Map of India, showing Haryana




Map showing Brahmavarta

I have stated that the Bible mentions Haran and Haryana. The Hindu holy books also say that Brahma/Abrahan lived in Ur of the Chaldees. Ur was a Sumerian name for "town; city." Chaldee (pronounced Kaldee) derives from the Sanskrit Kaul, a Brahman caste, and Deva (demi-god). The North Indian Kauldevas worshiped idols representing their ancestors. According to the Hindus, Brahma married Sarasvati in Chaldea, the part that is now Afghanistan.

Northern Afghanistan was called Uttara Kuru and was a great center of learning. An Indian woman went there to study and received the title of Vak i.e. Saraisvati (Lady Sarah). It is believed that Brahm, her teacher, was so impressed by her beauty, education, and powerful intellect, that he married her. (The Hindu History, by Ashkoy Kumar Mazumdar; p. 48, in passim.) Lord Krishna, the divine father (Terah/T‚ra) of Brahma/Abraham, was the king of Haran, with the seaport of Dwarka as its capital.
In about 1900 BC, hundreds of thousands of native Indians emptied Northern and Central India and fled to the Middle East after Krishna's Dwarka sank under the water.


Krishna gathered his family together and fled either to the Middle East or to what is now Iraq. Only some gigantic natural disasters, such as earthquakes and floods could have caused such an exodus. It was at this time that the Saraisvati and the Indus changed their proper beds. The Saraisvati dried up.


Map showing the path of the Sarasvati before it dried up.


The drying up of the Saraisvati... led to a major relocation of the population centered around the Sindhu and the Sarasvati valleys... caused a migration westward from India. It is soon after this time that the Indic element begins to appear all over West Asia, Egypt, and Greece. (Indic Ideas in the Graeco-Roman World, by Subhash Kak, taken from IndiaStar online literary magazine; p. 14.)

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood."

And Joshua said unto all the people, Your fathers dwelt... in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor, and they served other gods.

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Many people don't understand what is meant by Joshua's remark about "the other side of the flood." They think he was referring to the Noachide flood. He was referring to the time when God Krishna's Dwarka and Haran province, in today's Gujarat, sank under water in about 1900 BC. Abraham, Sarah, and their followers escaped southward, to the coastal ports of Kalyan and Sopara (Sophir or Sauvira), in Maharashthra. From there, they sailed northward to the Middle East. Sarah (Sarsvati) embarked from the port of Kalyan. At one time, Kalyan was located closer to the coast, but is now located more than 50 miles inland. Sarasvati is the patron saint of Kalyan. The patron saint of Sophir or Sauvira was Parasu Rama (possibly a name of our biblical Abraham/Brahma).

And I took your father Abraham from the other side of the flood, and led him throughout all the land of Canaan... (Joshua 24:2-3.)

Indian Author Paramesh Choudhury, author of The India We Have Lost, claims that Krishna and his family probably fled to Iraq. But I'm certain that they went to Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem is derived from Sanskrit: Yadu-Ishalayam, meaning "The Holy Rock of the Yadu Tribe." Lord Krishna was a Yadu. The Moslems still revere this huge rock under the Dome of the Rock on Jerusalem Temple Mount.





Temple [top] Mount and Dome of the Rock. [bottom] Abraham's tomb.


Until now, I have been wondering why Krishna's name did not appear in Jerusalem after his arrival there. Yet, the name of the king of Jerusalem, Melchizedek, the mentor of Abraham, did. I once thought that Melchizedek was the name of a certain person. I made this mistake by thinking that a prince and a son of a Kassite king, Melik-Sadaksina, was a supernaturally endowed prince, magician and spiritual giant. I thought he had accompanied Krishna, Abraham, and Sarah to the Middle East. Later on, I came to realize that the Sanskrit word Sadhaka applies to anyone who is an adept, a magician, one possessed of supernatural powers gained by worshipping a deity or by uttering magical chants.

I have additionally shown in this article that the New Testament words for Jesus all refer to Lord Krishna and his holy names. The early Christians were convinced that Melchizedek was just a prior incarnation of Jesus Christ, The remains of the Nag Hammadi manuscript entitled Melchizedek seem to confirm this. Melchizedek, king of Jerusalem and mentor of his son Abraham, was none other than ancient India's God Krishna. The early Christians thought that Jesus was a reincarnation of Krishna, for who else had the name Yesu Kristna, Isa, Krishna, etc.?

St. Paul states in the New Testament book of Hebrews:
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest forever after the order of Melchisedec. (6:20.) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him...(7:1); For he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchisedec met him. (7:;10);...what further need was there that another priest should arise after the order of Melchisedec...(7:11); Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchisedec (7:17);.

Melchisedek (Krishna)

In closing this article, I want to mention the dissatisfaction I have always had with fanatical religious sectarians who yell that only they are right and that everybody else is wrong. They often insult, deprecate, mock, and reject those with whom they disagree, hoping to shut the formers' mouths. In many cases, these religious squabbles over suspected "differences" cause widespread bloodshed and misery in the world. I am a Roman Catholic and proud of it. But it grieves me when I hear priests, nuns and laity preach that anyone who isn't a Catholic is hell-bound.

The word "Catholic" itself derives from the Sanskrit Ketu-Loka, meaning "Universal Leader." But how can a religion be "universal" if it is exclusive, locking out nations like India who not only gave Catholics their own bible, but even the Christ they worship? I have shown how nearly parallel our bible and the Hindu holy books concur in almost every way-linguistically, culturally, spiritually, etc. Even the incestuous relationship between Brahma and Sarasvati squares with that of Abraham and Sarah. India more than qualifies to be the real holy land of all mankind. The main differences between Christians and Hindus arise from the fact that the Hindu form of Christianity stayed behind in India, and that the western Christianity we know was exported abroad. Naturally, geographical separation has caused some variations in the two similar teachings, as well as culturally.

Additionally, we have to keep in mind that for many hundreds of years, these stories were passed down orally, from father to son. Changes, embellishments, and varying opinions crept through the woodwork.
It is a strange anomaly that our Christian sects want to convert the Hindus to the same religious teachings the latter gave to the world and still practice!

I have amply demonstrated that all of us, no matter what our respective religions and nationalities, are grandchildren of India, Will this knowledge help keep us from tearing ourselves and the world apart?

Addendum:

If, until now, you are still unconvinced that Melchizedek was Lord Krishna, and that Jesus was an incarnation of Krishna (Melchizedek) as Paul himself explained, I have no other recourse but to give you solid proof directly from the mouths of the Hindus themselves! This should put an end to the question. It is a verifiable fact that one of the names of Krishna was Sadhaka. Being a king, Krishna would have been addressed as Malika (King) Sadhaka). If you are still doubtful, go to the web and type in Krishna Sadhaka. You'll instantly get all the proof you'll; ever need. Note: This article is a chapter from Gene's upcoming book, now in preparation: Searching for God -- Now a Valid Science! It will be released in autumn, 2007.
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Charzhino
02-27-2010, 03:51 PM
I personally believe from the qutoes in the Bible that Jesus preached Monism, which is similar to the Hinduism school of thought known as Adviata Vedenta, which also explains Krishna.

There are a few errors in that text I have just read. Abraham is not Brahma, Krishna was not strictly born of a virgin and he did not die for the sins of others.
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barney
03-01-2010, 06:38 AM
I was reading a Hari Krishna book a few weeks ago where this Swami was peddling the very same theme.

It's possible, even probable that some Hindu elements made the transision over the persian gulf, the concept of god-eating travelled to aztec lands in the west as well as to Island Cults in the pacific.
Perhaps such basic ideas as ressurection/vicarious sacrifice/ karmic judgement etc are all rooted from our migration from Africa.
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ardianto
03-01-2010, 07:12 AM
I think that article is a tactic for convert Hindus into Christianity.
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Muslim Woman
03-01-2010, 07:18 AM
:sl:

I will InshaAllah try to read the full article later. Saw in other forum similarity between trinity of Hindus and Christians.

What I understood is Christians believe 3 are not different but one . But one Hindu told me they believe in 3 gods.
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barney
03-01-2010, 12:38 PM
Hindu's have 1 god with several hundred names and personalities. (Basically polytheism, but sold as monotheism)
Krishna is supposed to be the supreme godhead.
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Pygoscelis
03-01-2010, 02:50 PM
I thought that was Brahma, no?
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Woodrow
03-01-2010, 03:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
I think that article is a tactic for convert Hindus into Christianity.
I believe you are correct. It does seem to be a very similar tactic as to how Catholicism won over the Pagans in Europe and the UK.
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Supreme
03-01-2010, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Hindu's have 1 god with several hundred names and personalities. (Basically polytheism, but sold as monotheism)
Krishna is supposed to be the supreme godhead.
Well... no. Some Hindus choose to worship just one god. My Hindu friend just worships two.

Also, want more similarities between Jesus and Krishna but in video form? Robert Beckford is your man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhef6wa2Mpc
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aadil77
03-01-2010, 09:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
I think that article is a tactic for convert Hindus into Christianity.
True, zakir naik did the same by finding all kinds of unusual 'similarities' between the hinduism and islam, he was obviously targetting the 800 million hindus in his home country
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barney
03-02-2010, 01:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
Well... no. Some Hindus choose to worship just one god. My Hindu friend just worships two.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhef6wa2Mpc
Right, but that dosnt make worshippers of Posidon, non-polytheists :)

Thanks for the link
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ardianto
03-02-2010, 04:07 AM



Krishna in Javanese traditional art "Wayang Kulit", puppet that made from dried cow leather. The "Dalang" plays this "Wayang Kulit" behind a screen and audience watch it from another side.

However, there are some differences between story of Krishna in India and Java Island.

As a Javanese, of course I familiar with Hindu mythology. Even ancient Javanese people believed if "Mahabarata" was happened in Java island.
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Muslim Woman
03-02-2010, 04:52 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
True, zakir naik did the same by finding all kinds of unusual 'similarities' between the hinduism and islam, he was obviously targetting the 800 million hindus in his home country

I read a book written by a Hindu - who claimed that Prophet Muhammed pbuh is the 10th Abatar .

anyway , this discussin will be off topic here .
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Fulan
03-02-2010, 02:49 PM
subhanallah!
great article, i'm looking forward to it
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ardianto
03-02-2010, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
:sl:
I read a book written by a Hindu - who claimed that Prophet Muhammed pbuh is the 10th Abatar .
The 10th avatar (Kalkin) is a man who rides a white horse. This is not so far from description on Prophet Muhammad (saw), but of course, this is only a claim.

anyway , this discussin will be off topic here .
Okay, back to the topic. Krishna was the 8th avatar of Vishnu, then Hindus (maybe not all) believe if Sidharta Gautama/Buddha was the 9th avatar. But, how can the article writer claims if Jesus was Krishna if Krishna was born long time ago before Sidharta Gautama, and Sidharta Gautama was born almost 6 centuries before birth of Jesus ?.
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Charzhino
03-02-2010, 11:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
The 10th avatar (Kalkin) is a man who rides a white horse. This is not so far from description on Prophet Muhammad (saw), but of course, this is only a claim.
It is not Muhammed because Kalki is not due to appear in a very long time. Kalki is described as the Rider of a White horse, with a sword as a weapon who will come at the end of the Kali Yuga (age of Darkness which we are currently in) and destroy the forces of evil. No one will no his name because at that time all religion will have been wiped out.

Interestingly notice the near exact same description given in the Bible - Revelation 19 verse 11-16

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Pretty cool, unless the Bible just plagerised the story from Hindu texts.

Okay, back to the topic. Krishna was the 8th avatar of Vishnu, then Hindus (maybe not all) believe if Sidharta Gautama/Buddha was the 9th avatar. But, how can the article writer claims if Jesus was Krishna if Krishna was born long time ago before Sidharta Gautama, and Sidharta Gautama was born almost 6 centuries before birth of Jesus ?.
Possibly that Krishna was an incarnation of Jesus, but apparently that will not work since God according to Christianity only descended once in the human form throughout the entire existence of mankind to one group of people in the desert, which I find hard to accept.
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revert2007
03-29-2010, 08:08 PM
Krishna cannot be a God because you are not suppose to know the date of birth of God and biography.serach for Lrd Krishna in wikipedia and you will know what am saying..

he also had thousands of wives..and he simply was a human and not more than that
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Charzhino
03-30-2010, 12:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007
Krishna cannot be a God because you are not suppose to know the date of birth of God and biography.serach for Lrd Krishna in wikipedia and you will know what am saying..

he also had thousands of wives..and he simply was a human and not more than that
you need to read the philosophy of Vedenta to understand concepts of Atman, Maya and avatar first. Krsna is birthless and eternal.
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Muslim Woman
03-30-2010, 12:59 AM
Salaam/Peace

format_quote Originally Posted by Charzhino
... Krsna is birthless and eternal.

I read about krishan or other diety that s/he is supposed to come in this world whenever a bad ruler comes and torture people. So , when was the last time that hindu diety came in this world ?
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Karl
03-30-2010, 03:13 AM
Interesting ideas... When Alexander the Great was conquoring India he came upon Hindus and studied their Gods, he surmised that Krishna was an Eastern version of Dionysus, god of wine, women and song. A sort of ladyboy party animal god, later called Baccus by the Romans.

I have seen some other things of interest, the god Zeus was said to have an irrisistable grasp and the exact words are also in the Quran about Allah. So is that enough proof to say Allah is an Arabic version of Zeus or just a coincidence?
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Charzhino
03-30-2010, 01:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam/Peace




I read about krishan or other diety that s/he is supposed to come in this world whenever a bad ruler comes and torture people. So , when was the last time that hindu diety came in this world ?
I'm not sure about the most recent, but the last one will appear at the end of times and he will be called Kalki and will fight the battle of good with evil.
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revert2007
03-30-2010, 02:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Charzhino
you need to read the philosophy of Vedenta to understand concepts of Atman, Maya and avatar first. Krsna is birthless and eternal.
I guess if i wanna know about hinduism i should read the veda but veda is cannot be read by everyone and only certain selected people can lsiten to it.

Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[36] as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.[37][38][39] Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.Though Krishna was born in the royal family he was brought up by yadavas. Mathura was the capital of the Yadavas, to which Krishna's parents Vasudeva and Devaki belonged. The king Kansa, Devaki's brother,[40] had ascended the throne by imprisoning his father, King Ugrasena. Afraid of a prophecy that predicted his death at the hands of Devaki's eighth son, he had locked the couple into a prison cell. After Kamsa killed the first six children, and Devaki's apparent miscarriage of the seventh, being transferred to Rohini as Balarama, Krishna took birth.

According to Bhagavata Purana, Krishna married with 16,108 wives

interesting uh.So called God has 16,108 wives.but people are talking too much when prophet muhammad pbuh had more wives or when Islam allows marrying 4 wives.
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'Abd Al-Maajid
03-30-2010, 02:52 PM
Oh! that means Hindus worship prophets rather than worshiping God????
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revert2007
03-30-2010, 04:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdulmajid
Oh! that means Hindus worship prophets rather than worshiping God????
he wasn't a prophet.they worship avatar.and each hindus have their own belief and own understanding of the religion...some blindly worship the statues and in each house,each family members will worship to different statues for example father will worship Shiva,mother will worship muruga,brother will worship Ganesha,sister will worship durga and so on...

each "God" has it's own temple.

basically the cocnept of hinduism is through meditation and one can only reach moksha or not to be reborn through meditation..but how many hindus know it?and how many hinuds read their scripture or how many hindus know to read sanskrit?how many hindus know about anmegam(hereafter)?


they just blindly follow what was taught to them by ancestors and a lot of innovations.

I have a great question to hindus...why do u feed your Lord?
and why do you prepare shelter,and put on cloths for him/her.and why do you need to provide jeweller and money?

did he ask you to provide these things?

The Creator suppose to provide everything to us and not the other way around.
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Predator
03-30-2010, 04:25 PM
Students:"Is it true that Hindus believe everything is god?"

Hindu:"Yes."

Students:"You mean a fly is god, or an ant, or a stinkbug?"

Hindu:"You laughin' because you don't understand. You see only the illusion but don't see the One Reality-- Brahman."

Students:"Are you god?"

Hindu:"Yes, and so are all Hindus. They just need to realize it."

Students:"How're you going to 'realize' what isn't true? You didn't create the world!"

Students:"I hear you're a vegetarian--don't believe in taking any life..."

Hindu:"I believe in no-violence. Like Gandhi. Everybody respects him. He was a great Hindu! It's wrong to take life."

Students:"Any life?"

Hindu:"All life is sacred. The Vedas say so."

Students:"Don't you know that even vegetables have the seven characteristics of life? Vegetarians take life too." "How about when he boils water for his tea? Think of all the millions of bacteria he kills then! Poor, helpless little animals--that's what they are. You know, they evolve and reincarnate upwards--eventually into cows and humans!" "Gosh, he's a regular murderer!"
Rabi went home and grazed the cow and asked her, "You are a god, aren't you?" She just said "Moo."

On another school day, the question arose,

Students:"If Lakshmi is the goddess of wealth and prosperity, why are Hindus so poor?"

Hindu:"A man can be poor in one life and wealthy in the next."

Students:"How many reincarnations does it take? Look around! Most East Indians are cane-cutters, living in poor houses...." "Look at India--it's the most miserable country in the world! ...There are more rats than people, and such poverty and disease!" "People are starving in India, while the rats get fat and the sacred cows die of old age! That's what her gods and reincarnation have done for India
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Charzhino
03-31-2010, 12:12 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007


I have a great question to hindus...why do u feed your Lord?
and why do you prepare shelter,and put on cloths for him/her.and why do you need to provide jeweller and money?

did he ask you to provide these things?

The Creator suppose to provide everything to us and not the other way around.
It's an offering or sacrafice for good will. It is a way of saying thanks, just as prayer or meditation is.
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Charzhino
03-31-2010, 12:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007
I guess if i wanna know about hinduism i should read the veda but veda is cannot be read by everyone and only certain selected people can lsiten to it.

Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[36] as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.[37][38][39] Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.Though Krishna was born in the royal family he was brought up by yadavas. Mathura was the capital of the Yadavas, to which Krishna's parents Vasudeva and Devaki belonged. The king Kansa, Devaki's brother,[40] had ascended the throne by imprisoning his father, King Ugrasena. Afraid of a prophecy that predicted his death at the hands of Devaki's eighth son, he had locked the couple into a prison cell. After Kamsa killed the first six children, and Devaki's apparent miscarriage of the seventh, being transferred to Rohini as Balarama, Krishna took birth.

According to Bhagavata Purana, Krishna married with 16,108 wives

interesting uh.So called God has 16,108 wives.but people are talking too much when prophet muhammad pbuh had more wives or when Islam allows marrying 4 wives.
Krishna isnt human and you arnt human. Every being is the Self, not the Body. The body is material temporal illusion.

Krishna was Born in the perfect Divine State of Consciousness which is called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Krishna was always in that state and from birth knew that he was not the body. Therefore Krishna knew himself as God. Since the Self is immortal and never dies and is never created, ''Krishna'' has always existed.

You need to read what Vedenta teaches about the material universe before you think you know what your talking about. This isn't the same belief as Christians have that Jesus was fully man and fully God.
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revert2007
04-04-2010, 12:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Charzhino
It's an offering or sacrafice for good will. It is a way of saying thanks, just as prayer or meditation is.
can you provide the rpoof for your claim.

In Islam bi'da or innovation is a BIg NO.

but i guess in hinduism it is ok to worship the "God" in any way you like as long as u worship any statues made by man.


well let em tell u..it is not just a prayer.ur a sikh,so the way u worship is not similar to Hindus.and i know sikh celebrate something for every 300 years i guess.

and sikh put the holy book infront and they cover their head when they enter Gudhwara and ......even men cover the head and they prostrate and so on.


but hindus don't just do that..they will polute the whole envorinment.

they cannot worship their God without fire.

and Muslims should know what fire is related to :)

every single thing,Hindus must use fire even in the marriage the bride and bridegroom must go around the fire 7 times.hmmm

so their worship isn't simple worship...

there are many children in India dying of hunger..but these people can provide delicious and nutritious food to statues.hmmmm

no comment..readers should conclude by themselves.
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revert2007
04-04-2010, 12:16 AM
I have a nother question to Hindus in this forum.

I am sure at least you have been to the temple.can you roughly tell me how much you spend in the temple to worship your "God" so that the "God" can accept your prayers?

i guess the price of "archana" has been increased lol coz the coconut price increased :)
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revert2007
04-04-2010, 12:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Charzhino
Krishna isnt human and you arnt human. Every being is the Self, not the Body. The body is material temporal illusion.

Krishna was Born in the perfect Divine State of Consciousness which is called Sahaja Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Krishna was always in that state and from birth knew that he was not the body. Therefore Krishna knew himself as God. Since the Self is immortal and never dies and is never created, ''Krishna'' has always existed.

You need to read what Vedenta teaches about the material universe before you think you know what your talking about. This isn't the same belief as Christians have that Jesus was fully man and fully God.

Originally Posted by Charzhino
you need to read the philosophy of Vedenta to understand concepts of Atman, Maya and avatar first. Krsna is birthless and eternal.post number 18



you words contradicts.

i know what am talking about coz am an ex Hindu :)
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revert2007
09-19-2010, 06:03 AM
Assalamualikum
I have a question here. How can humans know the date of birth of God? Krishna born as human and was raised as a human and had hundreds of WIVES.

Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami, as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE. Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.

So is he a God?
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revert2007
09-19-2010, 06:07 AM
Oh really...tell me ..how many Hindus know Sanskrit? How man Hindus can read the veda?isn't Hindus is a religion of discrimination where only the Brahmani are allowed to read the Hindu scriptures?
I can bet you almost 90 percents of Hindus know noting about Hinduism except they are taught to worship the so called Gods / avtars.

Before the existence of Krishna, the world already existed.

Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami, as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.
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revert2007
09-19-2010, 06:09 AM
The prophet that you guys were waiting for was Muhammad pbuh. He came and conveyed the truth and left the world.. Get your hindu scripture and read it again.

Muhammad pbuh in Hindu scripture
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 08:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007
The prophet that you guys were waiting for was Muhammad pbuh. He came and conveyed the truth and left the world.. Get your hindu scripture and read it again.
lol...that doesnt even deserve an answer. Do you realize what Mahamada means in Sanskrit? mada means intoxicated. and "Mahamada" means greatly intoxicated. Zakir Naik and his ilk read that and went ahead and proclaimed mohammed is prophecized in Hindu scriptures! So much for his scholarship! Seriously, every one of these weird claims has been refuted easily by anyone that has even a little knowledge of Hinduism and these refutations are all over the internet. You just have to look for them. All the best.
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aadil77
09-19-2010, 11:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by bhakti
lol...that doesnt even deserve an answer. Do you realize what Mahamada means in Sanskrit? mada means intoxicated. and "Mahamada" means greatly intoxicated. Zakir Naik and his ilk read that and went ahead and proclaimed mohammed is prophecized in Hindu scriptures! So much for his scholarship! Seriously, every one of these weird claims has been refuted easily by anyone that has even a little knowledge of Hinduism and these refutations are all over the internet. You just have to look for them. All the best.
I have to agree, I don't think many muslims take his claims regarding hinduism to be true. Islam and hinduism are complete opposites, personally I think he does it for interfaith purposes but also to try and bring hindus to islam.
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Ramadhan
09-19-2010, 01:32 PM
I personally think that the hindu gods (wishnu, krisna, etc) were either very pious people or, more likely, prophets. After their death however, their people started to make statues and likeness of them to respect and remember them and after few generations, they were revered like god or "gods incarnation" (or "avatar"). After a thousand years or so, the original teachings have been twisted so much by brahmins/priests.

sounds familiar?
Because that's what's also happened with jesus pbuh and christianity.
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aadil77
09-19-2010, 01:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
I personally think that the hindu gods (wishnu, krisna, etc) were either very pious people or, more likely, prophets. After their death however, their people started to make statues and likeness of them to respect and remember them and after few generations, they were revered like god or "gods incarnation" (or "avatar"). After a thousand years or so, the original teachings have been twisted so much by brahmins/priests.

sounds familiar?
Because that's what's also happened with jesus pbuh and christianity.
that is also likely, pious people get turned into gods after they die
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Charzhino
09-19-2010, 02:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007
Assalamualikum
I have a question here. How can humans know the date of birth of God? Krishna born as human and was raised as a human and had hundreds of WIVES.

Traditional belief based on scriptural details and astrological calculations gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami, as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE. Krishna belonged to the royal family of Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva.

So is he a God?
Krishna says in the Gita that he was never born and does never die, he is eternal. But ''he'' is not his body, but His atman which can never be destroyed or harmed.

The Self is never born, nor does It ever die; never It came into existence nor will It cease to be - It will not take rebirth, It is unborn. 2.20

The human body and material existence is an illusion, those who become enligthened realise the true nature of non-duality, and realise their true Self.
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Charzhino
09-19-2010, 02:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by revert2007
The prophet that you guys were waiting for was Muhammad pbuh. He came and conveyed the truth and left the world.. Get your hindu scripture and read it again.

Muhammad pbuh in Hindu scripture
The bhavisya purana is an altered text. It also contains prophecies about Jesus, Buddha and Guru Nanak, so why dont you accept them?
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
I personally think that the hindu gods (wishnu, krisna, etc) were either very pious people or, more likely, prophets. After their death however, their people started to make statues and likeness of them to respect and remember them and after few generations, they were revered like god or "gods incarnation" (or "avatar"). After a thousand years or so, the original teachings have been twisted so much by brahmins/priests.

sounds familiar?
Because that's what's also happened with jesus pbuh and christianity.
To a learned Hindu, it doesn't matter whether Krishna is truly God or not. If you think you are praying to the Lord when you are praying to Krishna, that alone is enough. Bhakti/devotion/faith is an instrument to clean your own soul and awaken the divinity within you. The lord doesn't need worship. He's perfect and self-sufficient and hence has no needs.
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Ramadhan
09-19-2010, 03:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by bhakti
To a learned Hindu, it doesn't matter whether Krishna is truly God or not. If you think you are praying to the Lord when you are praying to Krishna, that alone is enough.
So why praying to khrisna then if he's not God?
From your explanation it does seem that you can pray to any object?

format_quote Originally Posted by bhakti
The lord doesn't need worship. He's perfect and self-sufficient and hence has no needs.
I agree. This concept is awfully similar to Islam.

However, what I see from the practice of hindus is extremely completely different.

I see hindus make offerings to their gods, or rather, they make offerings to the statues and likenesses of their gods.
And I often wondered why those ganeshas and shivas never ate those flowers, cakes, etc that were presented to them.....
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 04:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
So why praying to khrisna then if he's not God?
From your explanation it does seem that you can pray to any object?
Is that not why idol worship is encouraged in Hinduism? You can definitely pray to any object that you think can invoke devotion in you for God.


format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
I agree. This concept is awfully similar to Islam.
Please dont take offence coz I may be very wrong here but I think Allah says in the Quran that he created humans only so they could worship him right? Of course I dont know what the correct interpretation of the verse is and would love to understand.

format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar
However, what I see from the practice of hindus is extremely completely different.

I see hindus make offerings to their gods, or rather, they make offerings to the statues and likenesses of their gods.
And I often wondered why those ganeshas and shivas never ate those flowers, cakes, etc that were presented to them.....
That is again an act of love by the devotee coz he forms a personal relationship with the deity. Whether the idol eats it or not is immaterial.
The President of America, for example, is a very rich and powerful man and can get almost anything he wants at the snap of a finger. Even then, his loving little daughter or son finds immense joy in making a little greeting card for him from a mere piece of paper. The president, on his part, knows the gift is worthless compared to all the riches and power he has. Yet his joy when the little one gives him the piece of paper is boundless. Such is the relation between God and devotee.

The offerings to God are not just offerings. Instead, the love and devotion that goes into making those offerings to God is what is important.
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Charzhino
09-19-2010, 05:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by naidamar



I agree. This concept is awfully similar to Islam.

However, what I see from the practice of hindus is extremely completely different.

I see hindus make offerings to their gods, or rather, they make offerings to the statues and likenesses of their gods.
And I often wondered why those ganeshas and shivas never ate those flowers, cakes, etc that were presented to them.....
In Islam, Allah gets angry if one does not worship Him, therefore your God has emotion which makes him imperfect. And dont bring the cop out answer of ''his anger is not like our anger'', any emotion that is even closely related to anger makes such a being irrational.
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bhakti
09-19-2010, 06:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
I have to agree, I don't think many muslims take his claims regarding hinduism to be true. Islam and hinduism are complete opposites, personally I think he does it for interfaith purposes but also to try and bring hindus to islam.
yeah...he's certainly a vile ol' guy Mr.Zakir Naik! A funny character that lies a lot. I'm glad you guys dont take him too seriously :)
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aadil77
09-19-2010, 06:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by bhakti
yeah...he's certainly a vile ol' guy Mr.Zakir Naik! A funny character that lies a lot. I'm glad you guys dont take him too seriously :)
I wouldn't say he's 'vile' or that he 'lies', his theories do not automatically equal 'lies', majority of his lectures and material are very beneficial

its only his views regarding hinduism that are questionable
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'Aleena
09-20-2010, 09:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by bhakti
Do you realize what Mahamada means in Sanskrit? mada means intoxicated. and "Mahamada" means greatly intoxicated. Zakir Naik and his ilk read that and went ahead and proclaimed mohammed is prophecized in Hindu scriptures! So much for his scholarship! Seriously, every one of these weird claims has been refuted easily by anyone that has even a little knowledge of Hinduism and these refutations are all over the internet.
Strange:hmm: no when ever asked him during his open Q & A sessions. I saw him speaking in front of Hindu preachers and scholars but they never objected... or may be ambiguous personalities on the net are more reliable...
Hopefully you will ask him at this years peace conference :)
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Dave...
09-20-2010, 01:43 PM
All false religions come from the same place. That's why there are similarities between them and the truth, because they try to capture the power of the truth, while at the same time trying to conform it to themselves. Here's a taste....



"The pagan cults of Greece and Rome were part of what are commonly called the mystery religions. By Paul's time they had dominated the near eastern world for thousands of years and indirectly would dominate much of western culture through the middle ages and, even until today.

The mystery religions had many forms and variations, but a common source. In his vision on the island of Patmos John was shown "the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters," on whose "forehead a name was written, a mystery, 'Babylon the great, the mother of all harlots and the abominations of the earth'" (Rev. 17:1,5). Here the Lord pictures His judgment of the world religion. At the end of the Tribulation the true church will have been raptured (1 Thess. 4:13-18; Rev. 3:10) and the world will begin to establish a religion of it's own that will be truly universal. It will be the composite of all the worlds false religions, which will "give their power and authority to the beast, "the Antichrist" (Rev. 17:13). The final form of that all-powerful, universal religion will represent the completion of the mystery religions that historically originated in ancient Babylon.

In its organized form false religion began with the tower of Babel, from which Babylon derives it's name. Cain was the first false worshiper, and many individuals after him followed his example. But organized pagan religion began with the descendants of Ham, one of Noah's three sons, who decided to erect a great monument that would "reach into heaven" and make themselves a great name (Gen. 10:9-10; 11:4). Under the leadership of the proud and apostate Nimrod they planned to storm heaven and unify their power and prestige in a great worldwide system of worship. That was man's first counterfeit religion, from which every other false religion in one way or another has sprung.

God's judgment frustrated their primary purpose of making a grand demonstration of humanistic unity. By confusing "their language, that they may not understand one another's speech," and scattering "them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth" (Gen. 11:7-8) the Lord halted the building of the tower and fractured their solidarity. But those people took with them the seeds of that false, idolatrous religion, seeds that they and their descendants have been planting throughout the world ever since. The ideas and forms were altered, adapted, and sometimes made more sophisticated, but the basic system remained, and remains, unchanged. That is why Babel, or Babylon, is called "the mother of all harlots and of the abominations of the earth" (Rev. 17:5). She was the progenerator of all false religions.

From various ancient sources, it seems that Nimrod's wife. Semiramis (the first), apparently was high priestess of the Babel religion and the founder of all mystery religions. After the tower was destroyed and the multiplicity of languages developed, she was worshiped as a goddess under many different names. She became Ishtar of Syria, Astarte of Phoenicia, Isis of Egypt, Aphrodite of Greece, and Venus of Rome--in each case the deity of sexual love and fertility. Her son, Tammuz, also came to be deified under various names and was the consort of Ishtar and god of the underworld.

According to the cult of Ishtar, Tammuz was conceived by a sunbeam, a counterfeit version of Jesus' virgin birth. Tammuz corresponded to Baal in Phoenicia, Orisis in Egypt, Eros in Greece, and Cupid in Rome. In every case, the worship of these gods and goddesses was associated with sexual immorality. The celebration of Lent has no basis in scripture, but rather developed from the pagan celebration of Semiramis's mourning for forty days over the death of Tammuz (cf. Ezek. 8:14) before his alleged resurrection--another of Satan's mythical counterfeits.

The mystery religions originated the idea of baptismal regeneration, being born again merely through the rite of water baptism, and the practice of mutilation and flagellation to atone for sins or gain spiritual favor. They also began the custom of pilgrimages, which many religions follow today, and the paying of penance for forgiveness of sins foroneself and for others. (John Macarthur NT commentary '1 Corinthians' )
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aadil77
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
"The pagan cults of Greece and Rome were part of what are commonly called the mystery religions.
Which is why paul himself brought paganism into christianity by introducing the worship of multiple gods
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Grace Seeker
09-20-2010, 05:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
Which is why paul himself brought paganism into christianity by introducing the worship of multiple gods
If you want to claim that Christian worship multiple gods because you don't accept our understanding of the Trinity as monotheistic but tritheistic, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. But, you are sadly mistaken if you think that Paul introduced this. Take a look at the record, Peter is the one who introduces this idea in his very first sermon at Pentecost:

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" Acts 2:36. The phrase "Lord and Christ" is not just a couple of human titles that are being attributed to Jesus. The term "Christ" is a reference to Jesus being the Messiah. Not just an anointed instrument of God, but in this case being THE anointed and chosen one of God who is to bring about and accomplish the redemption of the nation of Israel and all nations spoken of by the prophets. And the term "Lord" is to use for Jesus is not just being polite like saying "sir"; in this context "Lord" is the word that Jews used as a substitute for YHWH, God's personal name. Peter is declaring that Jesus is none other than the very same being that Moses spoke to at the burning bush.

We see more of how Peter equated Jesus (who he calls "Lord" in vs. 36) with God a second time as he responds to questions posed to him about what all of this meant: 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." Having just called Jesus "Lord" he now refers to "the Lord" as "our God".


So, accuse us of polytheism if you want. But get the source right. It isn't Paul and it isn't Greek paganism. It is Peter and Thomas ("My Lord and my God" John 20:28) and even the Didache that you asked about in another thread, for it too refers to Jesus as "the Lord", in praying to the Father refers to Jesus as "your child", and (in the epitome of what you would call polytheism) instructs people to be baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." All of this while Paul is still breathing threats against the followers of Jesus specifically for at the time thinking exactly what you continue to accuse Christians of NOT being true monotheists.

aadil, I know you are capable of thinking for yourself. So, quit allowing yourself to be spoonfed by those who simply want to attack Paul. You can for coming late to the party and in the end teaching things that you disagree with. But what you accuse him of here, bringing paganism into Christianity, he is guiltless.

He didn't bring Trinitarian ideas to Christianity, he found them already existing within it, first fought against them, second was converted to them, and then spread them to the world.
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aadil77
09-20-2010, 06:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
So, accuse us of polytheism if you want. But get the source right. It isn't Paul and it isn't Greek paganism. It is Peter and Thomas ("My Lord and my God" John 20:28) and even the Didache that you asked about in another thread, for it too refers to Jesus as "the Lord", in praying to the Father refers to Jesus as "your child", and (in the epitome of what you would call polytheism) instructs people to be baptized "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." All of this while Paul is still breathing threats against the followers of Jesus specifically for at the time thinking exactly what you continue to accuse Christians of NOT being true monotheists.

aadil, I know you are capable of thinking for yourself. So, quit allowing yourself to be spoonfed by those who simply want to attack Paul. You can for coming late to the party and in the end teaching things that you disagree with. But what you accuse him of here, bringing paganism into Christianity, he is guiltless.

He didn't bring Trinitarian ideas to Christianity, he found them already existing within it, first fought against them, second was converted to them, and then spread them to the world.
hmm, well atleast we can agree that christianity consists of beliefs similar to paganisitic ones :ermm:
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Grace Seeker
09-20-2010, 06:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
hmm, well atleast we can agree that christianity consists of beliefs similar to paganisitic ones :ermm:
I agree that you label it that way. I observe that both a bird and a bee use wings to fly. But even though I believe in the basic ideas behind evolution, I don't think that one evolved into the other. In my opinion, the nexus for Christians thinking of God in three persons comes not from pagan polytheism, but from the personification of God's character found in pre-Christian Jewish wisdom literature.
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aadil77
09-20-2010, 07:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I agree that you label it that way. I observe that both a bird and a bee use wings to fly. But even though I believe in the basic ideas behind evolution, I don't think that one evolved into the other. In my opinion, the nexus for Christians thinking of God in three persons comes not from pagan polytheism, but from the personification of God's character found in pre-Christian Jewish wisdom literature.
I can understand that some christians may have loved Jesus (peace be upon him) to the extent that they turned him into a god - similar to how some companions who wanted to prostate themselves to prophet Muhammad, but I don't get where the trinity comes in and why it was made part of christianity
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Grace Seeker
09-20-2010, 07:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77
I can understand that some christians may have loved Jesus (peace be upon him) to the extent that they turned him into a god - similar to how some companions who wanted to prostate themselves to prophet Muhammad, but I don't get where the trinity comes in and why it was made part of christianity
A very legitimate question. One I've tried to address before, and am willing to address again if you're really seeking to understand where those beliefs come from. Mind you, I'm not saying that I'm trying to convince you to change your beliefs. And if this is about debate, refutation, and counter debate, I'm not interested in wasting my or your time. But, if you just want to an explanation (however illogical it might seem to you) as to how we arrived at this understanding, I am willing to go through it again.

(Or, if you're a reader, I can refer you to a few books that probably cover the subject better than I could.)
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Woodrow
09-20-2010, 07:48 PM
To make life easier for all concerned. Please everybody stick with facts and personal explanations. this is a very delicate topic for all concerned and it is best refutations and arguments be avoided. Especially if they become personal. Since this is an area we will never come to agreement on I am requesting each poster on this thread to post a closing explanation and then we will close the thread to further comments.
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aadil77
09-20-2010, 10:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
A very legitimate question. One I've tried to address before, and am willing to address again if you're really seeking to understand where those beliefs come from. Mind you, I'm not saying that I'm trying to convince you to change your beliefs. And if this is about debate, refutation, and counter debate, I'm not interested in wasting my or your time. But, if you just want to an explanation (however illogical it might seem to you) as to how we arrived at this understanding, I am willing to go through it again.

(Or, if you're a reader, I can refer you to a few books that probably cover the subject better than I could.)
Sure, no debates, I'd like to see your explanation as to where/why/how trinity comes in to christianity

and no I'm not a reader
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