A question about believers in an Islamic emirate

[theblackcloud]

Hi, I was wondering about the status of believers of God in an Islamic emirate, or state. So, let's say I was living in an Islamic state, and they knew I believed in God. I guess I could be called a 'hanif' then (but I'm not jew or christian, I just believe in One God above). How would I be treated in that Islamic state? I believe in one god, no paganism attached to it, no idolatry, I just don't follow Islam and it's doctrine.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

good question. maybe you should ask a shiekh?

[Sampharo]

"Hanif" means being true in faith to the One God, believing in the righteous messages of the one and only God, the all-knowing all-capable all-creating and the only one to worship, and looking for the true message of God following in the footsteps of Abraham -a.s.-.

To a single deity, away from the one true God and his disctated messages, is insufficient to be called a Hanif or a believer. To explain, insisting on disbelieving in the prophets Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad -s.a.a.w.- is contradicting to having true faith in One God and therefore are not regarded as believer nor "hanifan". Hanif person prays and fasts and before the prophet Mohammad -s.a.a.w.- they used to seclude themselves in caves to worship the way he used to do alone before receiving the message from the Angel, Gebriel.

"And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight."[98:5]

If the person doesn't pray or worship, then the person is not really believing in or worshiping anyone, let alone the One true God. Further, to say you reject Islam, is rejecting belief in God:

"The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account."[3:19]

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). "[3:85]

To claim any other religion or affiliation to a God than Islam and yet claim to be hanif and worshipping the One God, is a contradiction and still unacceptable. In short such a person is still regarded as a disbeliever (Kafir).

[theblackcloud]

"Hanif" means being true in faith to the One God, believing in the righteous messages of the one and only God, the all-knowing all-capable all-creating and the only one to worship, and looking for the true message of God following in the footsteps of Abraham -a.s.-.

To a single deity, away from the one true God and his disctated messages, is insufficient to be called a Hanif or a believer. To explain, insisting on disbelieving in the prophets Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad -s.a.a.w.- is contradicting to having true faith in One God and therefore are not regarded as believer nor "hanifan". Hanif person prays and fasts and before the prophet Mohammad -s.a.a.w.- they used to seclude themselves in caves to worship the way he used to do alone before receiving the message from the Angel, Gebriel.

"And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight."[98:5]

If the person doesn't pray or worship, then the person is not really believing in or worshiping anyone, let alone the One true God. Further, to say you reject Islam, is rejecting belief in God:

"The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account."[3:19]

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). "[3:85]

To claim any other religion or affiliation to a God than Islam and yet claim to be hanif and worshipping the One God, is a contradiction and still unacceptable. In short such a person is still regarded as a disbeliever (Kafir).

I have belief in One God though. Like I said, although I do NOT believe in Islam and it's doctrine, I believe in ONE creator of the Universe, and yes I sort of do "pray" to the One God. Just because I do not follow the Quran or Islam does not negate or disqualify my belief, but thanks for asking my question regarding my status in an Islamic state.

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[Predator]

I have belief in One God though. Like I said, although I do NOT believe in Islam and it's doctrine, I believe in ONE creator of the Universe, and yes I sort of do "pray" to the One God. Just because I do not follow the Quran or Islam does not negate or disqualify my belief, but thanks for asking my question regarding my status in an Islamic state.

GOD DECLARED ISLAAM THE PERFECT RELIGION:

Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

GOD PROMISED AND HAS BEEN PROTECTING NOBLE QURAN:

Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[].

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity/Judaism, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED THE RELIGION OF GOD (ALLAH) IS ISLAAM:

Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Noble Quran 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Does the name(s) "Christian/Jew" have divine inspiration? NO

BUT NAME "MUSLIM" HAS DIVINE INSPIRATION:
Noble Quran 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are "Muslims."

That is why Islaam is a perfect religion and Christianity/Judaism NOT.

That is why Noble Quraan is a perfect book guarded and protected by God Almighty Himself since its revelation. Contrary to that bible (OT&NT) are corrupted and adulterated.

Islaam has abrogated all religions:

Noble Quran 3:85! "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

[theblackcloud]

GOD DECLARED ISLAAM THE PERFECT RELIGION:

Noble Qur’aan 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Did God promise to guard your bible from corruption, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

GOD PROMISED AND HAS BEEN PROTECTING NOBLE QURAN:

Noble Quran 15:9! Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)[].

Did God say the religion of God is Christianity/Judaism, can you show me a single verse to this effect? NO

BUT GOD DECLARED THE RELIGION OF GOD (ALLAH) IS ISLAAM:

Noble Quran 3:19! Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account.

Noble Quran 5:3! … This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islâam as your religion…

Does the name(s) "Christian/Jew" have divine inspiration? NO

BUT NAME "MUSLIM" HAS DIVINE INSPIRATION:
Noble Quran 3:64! Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but Allâh, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides Allâh[]. Then, if they turn away, say: "Bear witness that we are "Muslims."

That is why Islaam is a perfect religion and Christianity/Judaism NOT.

That is why Noble Quraan is a perfect book guarded and protected by God Almighty Himself since its revelation. Contrary to that bible (OT&NT) are corrupted and adulterated.

Islaam has abrogated all religions:

Noble Quran 3:85! "And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Al-Qur'an 3:85]

That STILL does not negate my belief in a single entity known as God and God only. As many verses can be quoted as possible, but in my opinion, the individual decides which religion is "perfect" (that word used VERY loosely) and which is not. I do not believe humans can decide the ultimate verdict upon that inquisition, however, we are all entitled to our own views upon such matters.

[Predator]

That STILL does not negate my belief in a single entity known as God and God only. As many verses can be quoted as possible, but in my opinion, the individual decides which religion is "perfect" (that word used VERY loosely) and which is not. I do not believe humans can decide the ultimate verdict upon that inquisition, however, we are all entitled to our own views upon such matters.

If you believe in a single entity known as God and no paganism , What is incorrect about the Islamic Doctrine and what's is really holding you back from accepting Islam . Is it because you cant change your lifestyle like drink alcohol , drugs pork , gambling dating ect

You approach remind me of the below person who was earlier reluctant to convert and later decided to do so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjmNV6k9loU

[Sampharo]

That STILL does not negate my belief in a single entity known as God and God only. As many verses can be quoted as possible, but in my opinion, the individual decides which religion is "perfect" (that word used VERY loosely) and which is not. I do not believe humans can decide the ultimate verdict upon that inquisition, however, we are all entitled to our own views upon such matters.

Blackcloud, you asked about your status in AN ISLAMIC STATE. That was your question. You also asked specifically with regards to being "Hanif" and asked us how you will be treated in Islamic law. So whether you should or shouldn't regard yourself as a believer is kind of irrelevent.

You may go and worship the spirit of a saint lin your backyard and claim it is one god or worship "mother nature" and refer to God as "She" ike some people do, if you think this will work for you. However, we answered your question regarding that in an Islamic state you are still a disbeliever and that such beliefs have nothing to do with being "Hanif", and no you wouldn't be worshipping Allah in a way that counts.

Your objection to it is noted, but not relevent though because we don't change what God has sent us.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Peace!
You'll still be a non-muslim, I guess because you just don't follow the basic tenets of Islam i.e. you should have a belief and testify that Allah is the only God and Prophet Muhammed SAWS is His messenger, Daily five prayers, Fasting, Charity and the pilgrimage. But you'll be treated good though;D

[Predator]

Peace!
You'll still be a non-muslim, I guess because you just don't follow the basic tenets of Islam i.e. you should have a belief and testify that Allah is the only God and Prophet Muhammed SAWS is His messenger, Daily five prayers, Fasting, Charity and the pilgrimage. But you'll be treated good though;D

Prayer , Fasting Charity and Pilgrimage are duties that come next .The critical thing is to have thr right faith When reading the Qur'an one must understand the basic Islam beliefs,gathered from the Qur'an, the most basic being the Pillars of Faith and the Pillars of Practice.

Pillars of Faith/Belief

1. One True God
2. Angels
3. The Books Allah has revealed, not the man made lies.
4. Prophets
5. The Afterlife
6. Devine Decree and Destiny

Allah also promised paradise to the Jews ,Christians and Sabians

The Holy Qur'an 5:69 – Translation by Yusuf Ali

Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.


Here Allah talking of the True Christians that existed in the time of Jesus(pbuh) and the True Jews who existed in the time of Moses(pbuh) and the Sabian Monotheist who followed Zabur given to David(PBUH)

[theblackcloud]

Peace!
You'll still be a non-muslim, I guess because you just don't follow the basic tenets of Islam i.e. you should have a belief and testify that Allah is the only God and Prophet Muhammed SAWS is His messenger, Daily five prayers, Fasting, Charity and the pilgrimage. But you'll be treated good though;D

No sweat off my back, if I'm not treated well then it comes the time... resistance time.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

ye, ye, resistance....???

[theblackcloud]

If you believe in a single entity known as God and no paganism , What is incorrect about the Islamic Doctrine and what's is really holding you back from accepting Islam . Is it because you cant change your lifestyle like drink alcohol , drugs pork , gambling dating ect

You approach remind me of the below person who was earlier reluctant to convert and later decided to do so

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjmNV6k9loU

No, I do not believe in, nor take part in, pagan practices. I can't stand to look at statues because I believe they are an abomination to the One God. If it was up to me, I would take all statues down. Unfortunately, I can't though.

I never said anything was incorrect about the Islamic doctrine, I was simply asking a question and presenting a scenario, which reflects my real life situation and beliefs. Oh and by the way, I've only had one glass of wine and that was 3 years ago, I don't eat pork because it makes me sick, I don't gamble because I am extremely careful with my hard earned money (just ask my bro when he was going through college, lol) and I'm not into dating because what is out there just completely turns me off. So try not to make vague, stereotypical assumptions about people you do not even know. Thanks.

Blackcloud, you asked about your status in AN ISLAMIC STATE. That was your question. You also asked specifically with regards to being "Hanif" and asked us how you will be treated in Islamic law. So whether you should or shouldn't regard yourself as a believer is kind of irrelevent.

You may go and worship the spirit of a saint lin your backyard and claim it is one god or worship "mother nature" and refer to God as "She" ike some people do, if you think this will work for you. However, we answered your question regarding that in an Islamic state you are still a disbeliever and that such beliefs have nothing to do with being "Hanif", and no you wouldn't be worshipping Allah in a way that counts.

Your objection to it is noted, but not relevent though because we don't change what God has sent us.

I do regard myself as a true believer of God, you don't need to worry about that. Lol worship a saint in my backyard? If you even knew me (which you don't, by the way) you would know that my backyard has a shed, a wheel barrow and a picnic table, and that's it. I don't even like drawing or looking at any images, and I live with an Iraqi friend that even he thinks my beliefs are too strict.

In the end, I'm concerned about my spiritual growth and where I'm going when this is all over. I worship God, the ruler of the universe. I am not concerned with what counts with another religion. I do not adhere to any religious doctrine, although thanks and a thumbs up for answering my question and inputting your 2 cents.

[theblackcloud]

ye, ye, resistance....???

I will not be oppressed or treated lower than the average citizen for my private beliefs. If I was attacked, or treated negatively, consistently, through physical attack, financial attack, psychological/social ridicule, or any way that would be dehumanizing solely because of my beliefs, then yes, I would resist and fight back against the people and state.

[islamirama]

I will not be oppressed or treated lower than the average citizen for my private beliefs. If I was attacked, or treated negatively, consistently, through physical attack, financial attack, psychological/social ridicule, or any way that would be dehumanizing solely because of my beliefs, then yes, I would resist and fight back against the people and state.

you already got your answer that you'll be treated good, or were you just looking for a reason to go tangent on your 'resistance"

btw, there is no real "islamic" emirate in the world right now, so don't even worry about it.

[theblackcloud]

you already got your answer that you'll be treated good, or were you just looking for a reason to go tangent on your 'resistance"

btw, there is no real "islamic" emirate in the world right now, so don't even worry about it.

That answer seemed awfully sarcastic (just look at how it was typed....), but I was still making a point nonetheless, relating to what that user typed. Yes, it would be a resistance, I made my statement.

Don't worry about it? I won't. I'm not concerned with the political agendas of people... but my question was answered/

['Abd Al-Maajid]

You find my post sarcastic because it was...At that time I was like "Oh man!!! he's hoping for an unnecessary debate on the conduct of Caliphs towards non-muslims...
To remind you brother, if there was a Caliph rule, there would not be a High court or Supreme court to raise your voice more precisely resist the government...;D;D;D;D

[theblackcloud]

You find my post sarcastic because it was...At that time I was like "Oh man!!! he's hoping for an unnecessary debate on the conduct of Caliphs towards non-muslims...
To remind you brother, if there was a Caliph rule, there would not be a High court or Supreme court to raise your voice more precisely resist the government...;D;D;D;D

I'm not hoping for any unnecessary debate... where do you draw these inaccurate, false assumptions from? hmmm?

I don't need a high court nor a supreme court to resist oppression, kiddo. It's called civil disobedience and armed resistance, better get used to it.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

I'm not hoping for any unnecessary debate... where do you draw these inaccurate, false assumptions from? hmmm?

I don't need a high court nor a supreme court to resist oppression, kiddo. It's called civil disobedience and armed resistance, better get used to it.

Okay, my bad....:embarrass:embarrass:embarrass

[Eliphaz]

The position of the kuffar (which, let's face it, you and I are Blackcloud, even though we believe in One God) in a Caliphate is that we don't live there. Only people of the book are tolerated and we don't fall into that category.

And look, I understand that there is no Caliphate, but that doesn't change the fact that eventually all Muslims believe there will be a Caliphate established nearer the end times. Therefore non-Muslims do have cause for asking what their status would be should they end up living in one at some stage.

[Ramadhan]

The position of the kuffar (which, let's face it, you and I are Blackcloud, even though we believe in One God) in a Caliphate is that we don't live there. Only people of the book are tolerated and we don't fall into that category.

And look, I understand that there is no Caliphate, but that doesn't change the fact that eventually all Muslims believe there will be a Caliphate established nearer the end times. Therefore non-Muslims do have cause for asking what their status would be should they end up living in one at some stage.

Don't worry, you will become a muslim once prophet Isa pbuh defeats Dajjal.
That is, if you are still alive by then.

[Eliphaz]

Don't worry, you will become a muslim once prophet Isa pbuh defeats Dajjal.
That is, if you are still alive by then.

I marvel at your future telling abilities. I thought it was the other way around: at the time of Dajjal one would be a Muslim in the morning and a kafir in the evening? Anywho, what do you feel about secular states who grant Muslims freedom of worship in comparison to the Caliphate model which grants polytheists no freedom of worship?