format_quote Originally Posted by
Zundrah
We believe that Jesus was God, and that He took the place of the animal that usually would be sacrificed to pay for sins. Jesus, being God, was enough to pay for all sins until the end of the world/ His second coming.
We must obey the laws of the country we live in. If they must go to jail or be hung, then we must allow that.
Of course, Jesus (being God) will forgive our sins no matter what we do, becuase when he sacrificed Himself on the cross no sin was ever too much for Him to pardon. The same goes for any sin commited today or tomorrow.
Crucifixion, was a very common way to execute a criminal back in Rome. Jesus commited a crime by saying that He was God, so He was executed for it. It is only logical to believe that He was crucified.
Brother you have to prove what you are saying on the basis of those fabricated statements of bibles, many of which has been thrownout in modern king james version and revised standard version.
here i am posting from your bible, your open required to understand these.
IS JESUS GOD: WHAT BIBLE SAYS ABOUT ITS REALITY ? (SEE DETAIL)
1. Bible says that God is not Man
The Bible says:
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man…”
Hosea 11:9 “...For I am God, and not man...”
Jesus is called a man many times in the Bible:
John 8:40 “…a man who has told you the truth…”
Acts 2:22 “Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.”
Acts 17:31 “He will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom He has appointed”
1. Tim. 2:5 “…the man Christ Jesus.”
God is not a man, but Jesus, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, was a man, therefore, Jesus was not God.
2. The Bible Says that God Is Not a Son of Man
Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man...nor a son of man…”
The Bible often calls Jesus “a son of man” or “the son of man.”
Matthew 12:40 “…so will the son of man be…”
Matthew 16:27 “For the son of man is going to come…”
Matthew 28 “…until they see the son of man coming in His kingdom.”
Mark 2:10 “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authori-ty…”
John 5:27 “…because He is the son of man.”
In the Hebrew Scriptures, the “son of man” is also used many times speak-ing of people (Job 25:6; Psalm 80:17; 144:3; Ezekiel 2:1; 2:3; 2:6; 2:8; 3:1; 3:3; 3:4; 3:10; 3:17; 3:25).
Since God would not contradict Himself by first saying He is not the son of a man, then becoming a human being who was called “the son of man”, he would not have done so. Remember God is not the author of confusion. Also, human beings, including Jesus, are called “son of man” specifically to distinguish them from God, who is not a “son of man” according to the Bible.
3. The Bible says that Jesus Denied He is God
Luke 18:19 Jesus spoke to a man who had called him “good,” asking him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Matthew 19:17 and he said to him, “Why are you asking me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Jesus did not teach people that he was God. If Jesus had been telling people that he was God, he would have complimented the man. Instead, Jesus rebuked him, denying he was good, that is, Jesus denied he was God.
4. The Bible says that God is Greater than Jesus
John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”
John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”
Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.
5. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only
Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”
John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”
John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”
If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.
6. The Bible Says that Jesus Recognized, Prayed, & Worshipped the Only True God
Jesus prayed to God with the words:
John 17:3 “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Chr-ist whom you have sent.”
Jesus prayed to God all night:
Luke 6:12 “he continued all night in prayer to God.”
…because:
Matthew 20:28: Just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve.
How did Jesus pray to God?
Matthew 26:39 ‘…he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, How did Jesus pray to God?‘
WAS HE SAY "My Father…” ?
Even Paul said:
Hebrews 5:7 “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.”
Who was Jesus praying to when he fell on his face with loud cries and petitions? Was it himself? Was Jesus crying in tears to himself pleading to be saved from death? No man, sane or insane, prays to himself! Surely the answer must be a resounding ‘No.’ Jesus was praying to “the only true God.” Jesus was the servant of the One Who sent him. Can there be a clearer proof that Jesus was not God?
The Quran confirms that Jesus called for the worship of the Only True God:
“Truly, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (alone). This is the straight path.” (Quran 3:51)
7. The Bible says that the disciples did not believe Jesus was God.
The Acts of the Apostles in the Bible details the activity of the disciples over a period of thirty years after Jesus, may God praise him, was raised to heaven. Throughout this period, they never referred to Jesus as God. For instance Peter stood up with the eleven disciples and addressed a crowd saying:
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man ac-credited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”
For Peter, Jesus was a servant of God (confirmed in Matthew 12:18):
Acts 3:13 “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.”
Acts 3:26 “God raised up his servant...”
When faced by opposition from the authorities, Peter said:
Acts 5:29-30 “We must obey God rather than men! The God of our fathers raised Jesus...”
The disciples prayed to God just as they were commanded by Jesus in Luke 11:2, and considered Jesus to be God’s servant,
Acts 4:24 “...they raised their voices together in prayer to God. ‘Sovereign Lord,’ they said, ‘you made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and eve-rything in them.’”
Acts 4:27 “...your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.”
Acts 4:30 “…of Your holy servant Jesus.”
This is exactly what the Quran states of Jesus:
Quran 19: 30 “…I am indeed a servant of God.”
8. The Bible says that Jesus was God’s servant, chosen one, and beloved.
Matt. 12:18 “Behold, My servant, whom I have chosen, in whom My soul is well pleased.”
Since Jesus is God’s servant, Jesus can not be God.
9. The Bible says that Jesus could not Do Anything by Himself.
John 5:19 “The son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing.”
John 5:30 “I can of mine own self do nothing.”
Jesus did not consider himself equal with God; rather he denied doing anything by himself.
10. The Bible says that God performed miracles through Jesus & Jesus was limited in what he could do.
Matt. 9:8 “But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glori-fied God, who had given such authority to men.”
Acts 2:22 “a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst.”
Acts 10:38 “…he went about doing good and healing all who were op-pressed by the devil, for God was with Him.”
If Christ was God, the Bible would simply say that Jesus did the miracles himself without making reference to God. The fact that it was God supply-ing the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Jesus.
Also, Jesus was limited in performing miracles. One time when Jesus tried to heal a blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (Mark 8:22-26). Once a woman was healed of her incurable bleeding. The woman came up behind him and touched his cloak, and she was immediately healed. But Jesus had no idea who touched him:
Mark 5:30 “At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’”
Mark 6:5 “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.”
Quite obviously, someone with such limitations can not be God. The pow-er of miracles was not within Jesus.
11. The Bible says that at times of weakness angels strengthened Jesus; God, however, does not need to be strengthened.
Luke 22:43 “An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him [in the garden of Gethsemane].”
Mk. 1:13 “Then the devil left him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.”
Mark 1:13 “And he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan; and he was with the wild beasts, and the angels were ministering to him.”
Men need to be strengthened; God does not because God is All-Powerful. If Jesus had to be strengthened, he must not be God.
12. The Bible says that Jesus wanted God’s will to be done, not his own.
Luke 22:42: “not my will but Yours be done.”
John 5:30 “I do not seek my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.”
John 6:38 “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.”
Are some members of the coequal Trinity subservient, and less than equal, to other members? Even though they have different wills (“I do not seek my own will”), do they obey without question the others’ commands (“the will of Him who sent me”)? Jesus admits to subordinating his own distinct will, yet according to the Trinitarian doctrine they should all have the same will. Should one of the triune partners have to forgo his own will in favor of the will of another member of the Trinity? Should not they all have the exact same will?
13. The Bible says Jesus regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.
Jesus regarded himself and God as two, not “one.”
John 8:17 and 18: “I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father.”
John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me.”
If Jesus was God, He would have not have regarded God’s testimony as separate from his own.
14. Bible says that Jesus had limited knowledge, but god’s knowledge is infinite
Mark 13:32 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the Father.”
Since Jesus, may the blessing and mercy of God be upon him, did not know, he was not all-knowing, and therefore, he cannot be the God whose knowledge is all-encompassing.
15. Bible says that Jesus was tempted, but God cannot be tempted
Heb. 4:15 “tempted in every way—just as we are”
James 1:13 “for God cannot be tempted by evil”
Since God can not be tempted, but Jesus was, therefore, Jesus was not God.
16. Bible says that Jesus died, but God cannot die
The Bible teaches that Jesus died. God cannot die. Romans 1:23 and other verses say that God is immortal. Immortal means, “not subject to death.” This term applies only to God.
20. Bible says that Jesus lived because of God
John 6:57 “I live because of the Father.”
Jesus cannot be God because he depended on God for his own existence.
17. Bible says that Jesus was lower than angels
Hebrews 2:9 “But we do see him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.”
God, the Creator of angels, can not be lower than His own creation, but Jesus was. Therefore, Jesus was not God.
18. Bible says that Jesus called the GOD “my God”
Matt. 27:46 “My God, My God, why have You forsaken me?”
John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.”
Rev. 3:12 “… the temple of my God… the name of my God… the city of my God… comes down out of heaven from my God.”
Jesus did not think of himself as God, instead Jesus’ God is the same as ours.
26. Bible says that God cannot be seen, but Jesus was
John 1:18 “no man has seen God at any time.”
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