Atheism Refuted

[ahmetsecer]

Atheism Refuted

http://www.atheismrefuted.com

[AinEstonia]

Is it even logically possible to refute non-belief ? That's like refuting not believing in unicorns.

[IslamicRevival]

Is it even logically possible to refute non-belief ?

Of course its possible. You tell me why it isnt 'logically' possible

[Woodrow]

Of course its possible. You tell me why it isnt 'logically' possible

Sadly and reluctently, I have to agree it is impossible to refute a non belief.

It is a contradiction in terms. You can refute anything a person believes in a logical manner. But, you can not refute what a person does not believe. There is nothing there to refute. If a person says they do not believe xxxx. You can not prove they do not believe xxx and you can not refute their non-believing xxxx because xxx does not exist for that person. You can not refute what a person does not believe because you can not identify what it is a person does not believe.

We have no way to refute atheism, but we can fight and argue against it by offering proof for what we do believe.

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[omar ibrahim]

Sadly and reluctently, I have to agree it is impossible to refute a non belief.

It is a contradiction in terms. You can refute anything a person believes in a logical manner. But, you can not refute what a person does not believe. There is nothing there to refute. If a person says they do not believe xxxx. You can not prove they do not believe xxx and you can not refute their non-believing xxxx because xxx does not exist for that person. You can not refute what a person does not believe because you can not identify what it is a person does not believe.

We have no way to refute atheism, but we can fight and argue against it by offering proof for what we do believe.

an atheist mostly believe in big bang and evolution you can refute these things ^^

[AinEstonia]

an atheist mostly believe in big bang and evolution you can refute these things ^^

Mostly, you can of course try and refute them, but your time would be better spent trying to refute the claim that Earth is round and rotates around a star.

[IslamicRevival]

We have no way to refute atheism, but we can fight and argue against it by offering proof for what we do believe.

Correct, JazakAllah for your insightful input :)

[omar ibrahim]

Mostly, you can of course try and refute them, but your time would be better spent trying to refute the claim that Earth is round and rotates around a star.

why are you always being upset try to be calm ^^,well what do you mean by saying try to refute that earth is round and rotates around a star can you be clear please.

[AinEstonia]

why are you always being upset try to be calm ^^,well what do you mean by saying try to refute that earth is round and rotates around a star can you be clear please.

Exactly how am I upset ? I find this topic rather entertaining.
And what I meant with the Earth rotating around the Sun thing is that evolution and Big Bang are supported by so much evidence, that you'll have an easier time trying to prove that Earth is flat.

[Woodrow]

an atheist mostly believe in big bang and evolution you can refute these things ^^

:sl:

Actually we can not disprove anything. A person can say 2 + 1 = 17 and we can not prove they are wrong. We can prove 2 + 1 = 3 is correct and the acceptable answer. But that does not prove 17 is always the wrong answer as there may be conditions we do not know about that would make it right under such conditions.

For the same reason we can not disprove the big bang or evolution. even if we did it would not prove the existence of Allaah(swt) or refute atheism. Nor would it have any effect on atheists that do not accept the big bang or evolution.

The only way we can refute Atheism is to stop concentrating on trying to prove something is wrong and concentrate on proving Allaah(swt) exists.

The second we present proof of the existence of Allaah(swt) that an atheist accepts, that atheist is no longer an atheist. Proof of truth is the only valid refutation. It is pointless to refute by trying to prove something is wrong.

[omar ibrahim]

Exactly how am I upset ? I find this topic rather entertaining.
And what I meant with the Earth rotating around the Sun thing is that evolution and Big Bang are supported by so much evidence, that you'll have an easier time trying to prove that Earth is flat.

well thank you for explaining that you know my english is still weak,its make communication sometimes harder.Well i asked you why are you upset or ungry because of your way dealing with others.However,the earth is flat is something undeniable,but the bigbang and evolution is still something you can deny,and by the way islam tells us that the heavens ant the earth were joined together and also we believe that every things come out of the water.

[omar ibrahim]

sorry i was mistaken when i said that the earth is flat is something undeniable,i meant the earth is like a ball ,circle ^^

[Candle]

There is a difference between non-belief and disbelief. Agnostics are non-believers; they are passive. It's impossible to refute the non-believer. However, atheists are not choosing to not believe. Atheists actively affirm that there is no god. That is an active belief, and it can be refuted. My Christian ethics proff and my logic proff would agree!

[Candle]

(sorry for double post. I can't edit posts yet!)

The second we present proof of the existence of Allaah(swt) that an atheist accepts, that atheist is no longer an atheist. Proof of truth is the only valid refutation. It is pointless to refute by trying to prove something is wrong.

I, personally, would like to champion the cause of being able to refute a belief, but you speak the truth! The existence of God is a greater truth than the non-existence of the big bang. :thumbs_up

[Woodrow]

There is a difference between non-belief and disbelief. Agnostics are non-believers; they are passive. It's impossible to refute the non-believer. However, atheists are not choosing to not believe. Atheists actively affirm that there is no god. That is an active belief, and it can be refuted. My Christian ethics proff and my logic proff would agree!

Good point Candle and you are correct it is an active belief. In theory an active believe can be disputed, but it is a difficult method to use and beyond the ability of most debaters.

[Masuma]

we can fight and argue against it by offering proof for what we do believe.

I agree! :)

Actually we can not disprove anything. A person can say 2 + 1 = 17 and we can not prove they are wrong. We can prove 2 + 1 = 3 is correct and the acceptable answer. But that does not prove 17 is always the wrong answer as there may be conditions we do not know about that would make it right under such conditions.

Anhan? Under which conditions will 2+1=17 be right?

If I say to an Atheist that take 2 Dollars and 1 Dollar and now give me 17 dollars! Atheist would realize in his heart that it is wrong though its a separate matter that he admits it or not.

For the same reason we can not disprove the big bang or evolution. even if we did it would not prove the existence of Allaah(swt) or refute atheism. Nor would it have any effect on atheists that do not accept the big bang or evolution.

Having any effect on Atheists is something else as it is only in Allah's hands to give guidance. But if something IS wrong, then why can't we disprove it? Evolution theory is wrong and there are many people who ARE disproving it. :hmm:

The only way we can refute Atheism is to stop concentrating on trying to prove something is wrong and concentrate on proving Allaah(swt) exists.

Umm... I don't know. Rightnow it seems right to me. I mean we can change our techniques for Dawah! :)

[CosmicPathos]

I agree! :)



Anhan? Under which conditions will 2+1=17 be right?

If I say to an Atheist that take 2 Dollars and 1 Dollar and now give me 17 dollars! Atheist would realize in his heart that it is wrong though its a separate matter that he admits it or not.



Having any effect on Atheists is something else as it is only in Allah's hands to give guidance. But if something IS wrong, then why can't we disprove it? Evolution theory is wrong and there are many people who ARE disproving it. :hmm:


Umm... I don't know. Rightnow it seems right to me. I mean we can change our techniques for Dawah! :)

salam sr aneeza, long time ... I hope you are doing allright in Pakistan amidst all the shooting and chaos in Lahore. :)

[Masuma]

Sadly and reluctantly, I have to agree it is impossible to refute a non belief.

It is a contradiction in terms. You can refute anything a person believes in a logical manner.

Ironically, Atheists do believe in something. :D Many of them "believe" evolution to be correct. So now as they are "believing" on something, we can prove them wrong.

But, you can not refute what a person does not believe.

Yeah, this totally makes sense.

We have no way to refute atheism,...

As I said before, we can refute those things which are actually wrong and Atheists believe them to be true.

[Masuma]

salam sr aneeza, long time ... I hope you are doing allright in Pakistan amidst all the shooting and chaos in Lahore. :)

Walikum Us Salam Wa Rehmatullahi Wa Barakatuh! :D

Yeah. Only Allah is keeping me and my family safe. :)

[CosmicPathos]

atheists have a belief that God does not exist. It is equivalent to having a non-belief in existence of God.

lets not bring evolution into this. Many Muslims believe that evolution is true.

[Masuma]

^ Directed towards me? I'm not the one bringing evolution in. Its just a point which I mentioned. And it is not even wrong.

[Woodrow]

I


As I said before, we can refute those things which are actually wrong and Atheists believe them to be true.

True, but that will not prove Allaah(swt) and Islam are true, it will only prove they are wrong. We are wasting our time if we fail to prove we are right. Proving another person is wrong is not proof we are right.


In my example above in which I used 2+1=17 can not be proven wrong as there is the possibility an unknown factor exists that would prove it is true. We do not know the unknown factor or even if such exists. If some how we were to prove it is wrong, we only proved 17 is wrong and that means another number is correct. We then place our selves in the position of having to prove every number except 3 is wrong,

Far better we just stick with proving 3 is the correct and acceptable answer, with no need to prove any other number is wrong.

[Masuma]

True, but that will not prove Allaah(swt) and Islam are true, it will only prove they are wrong. We are wasting our time if we fail to prove we are right. Proving another person is wrong is not proof we are right. …If some how we were to prove it is wrong, we only proved 17 is wrong and that means another number is correct. We then place our selves in the position of having to prove every number except 3 is wrong.
Far better we just stick with proving 3 is the correct and acceptable answer, with no need to prove any other number is wrong.

And to this point, I totally agree. MashAllah, an excellent point mentioned!

But how would we prove God’s existence to Atheists? They won’t believe a word which Quran says. If we’ll ask them to look around and see how the world has been created, they would simply stick to their widely accepted “Evolution theory”. And for this reason I said that we then need to disprove their Evolution theory and then move forward.

Now the problem is that the moment we’ll be finished with “Evolution theory” completely refuted; Atheists would simply come up with a new one. So of-course there is no end to disbelief! In such case, what should be our technique of Dawah?

If there comes a definite “scientific law” which would not contradict Quran and would disprove evolution theory too, then we Muslims would have no problem with it.

In my example above in which I used 2+1=17 can not be proven wrong as there is the possibility an unknown factor exists that would prove it is true. We do not know the unknown factor or even if such exists.

The unknown factor? Do you mean like multiplying 2 with 8 and then adding 1 to the product, so 8 is the unknown factor? Heheehe. :D
“If the Atheists fail to give any “unknown factor” in support of their beliefs, then 2+1=17 has clearly been proven a fallacy. But I didn’t understand completely what you say here, so I’m not going to discuss it further.
I think that a thing which is ill-logical remains ill-logical. For a thing to be true, it must be true in each and every case.

[Woodrow]

I think that a thing which is ill-logical remains ill-logical. For a thing to be true, it must be true in each and every case.

It all depends on how it is worded. If I say "cars are blue." That is a true statement and does not apply in every situation, and can be proven simply by showing a blue car.

But, if I say "All cars are blue" That is probably a false statement, but I can not prove it is false. I can show a red car and that would not be proof as the person could have a psychological disturbance that causes them to see all cars as being blue. I can present different colored cars and those who can visually differentiate between colors will agree all cars are not blue and to them it will be proof. But I still can not prove the statement "All cars are blue" is false. I can only present evidence that some cars are not blue.


Refuting atheists is best left alone and the goal should be tp present them with reasons you believe Allaah(swt) exists. For many a good starting point is to show that the Qur'an was not written by man. Some evidence that supports this are:

1. The views of the early witnesses to the revelations

2. Showing that the Prophet(PBUH) was illiterate

3. Show that the Qur'an contains things that were unknown to the people at that time.

4. Point out the unique style and grammar of the Qur'an by comparing it with other Arabic works of the era

5. There is much more evidence that would be too long for me to type out

Once the Que'an is proven to be the work of Allaah(swt) it can be used as the source to prove the existence of Allaah(swt)

All we can do is present evidence as to why we believe. Everybody else is free to accept or deny the evidence. We can only present, we can not force acceptance, even if we tried too.

[Masuma]

It all depends on how it is worded. If I say "cars are blue." That is a true statement and does not apply in every situation, and can be proven simply by showing a blue car.

But, if I say "All cars are blue" That is probably a false statement, but I can not prove it is false. I can show a red car and that would not be proof as the person could have a psychological disturbance that causes them to see all cars as being blue.

To this I think that this is somewhat a description of the one on whose heart Allah has put a seal. No matter how much evidence we provide them, they would still not believe.

I can present different colored cars and those who can visually differentiate between colors will agree all cars are not blue and to them it will be proof. But I still can not prove the statement "All cars are blue" is false. I can only present evidence that some cars are not blue.

And so you are actually supporting my statement here :D.
Those "who can differentiate between colors" like Christians, Hindus, and those people who still have some commonsense and intelligence left and whose hearts have not been sealed, will get guidance by our act of "disproving that not all cars are blue" . So disproving would here definitely work!

Refuting atheists is best left alone and the goal should be tp present them with reasons you believe Allaah(swt) exists. For many a good starting point is to show that the Qur'an was not written by man. Some evidence that supports this are:

1. The views of the early witnesses to the revelations

2. Showing that the Prophet(PBUH) was illiterate

3. Show that the Qur'an contains things that were unknown to the people at that time.

4. Point out the unique style and grammar of the Qur'an by comparing it with other Arabic works of the era

5. There is much more evidence that would be too long for me to type out

Once the Que'an is proven to be the work of Allaah(swt) it can be used as the source to prove the existence of Allaah(swt)

MashAllah, again a brilliant advice. :statisfie May Allah bless you so much for this! Jazakamullahu Khair!

All we can do is present evidence as to why we believe. Everybody else is free to accept or deny the evidence. We can only present, we can not force acceptance, even if we tried too.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't present evidence to our beliefs but that is not "all what we can do". Like I said before, disproving wrong theories would also work for those whose hearts have not been sealed.

So what we Muslims can do is to disprove wrong theories as well as provide clear evidences for our beliefs! :)

[Woodrow]

I'm not saying that we shouldn't present evidence to our beliefs but that is not "all what we can do". Like I said before, disproving wrong theories would also work for those whose hearts have not been sealed.

So what we Muslims can do is to disprove wrong theories as well as provide clear evidences for our beliefs! :)

True, but there still is no need to dwell on the negative. The Beauty and truth of Islam is easier to speak of and that is what they thirst to hear. To those whose heart is open, let them see the Beauty and love, that will over ride and there will be no need to disprove those who are in error.

The people I deal mostly with are native American Lakotah, who follow the Traditional belief. It is a very beautiful religion and what they practice is very similar to Islam in regards to morality and personal behavior, but they do not believe in all of the Prophets. My da'wah with them consists primarily of educating them about Muhammad(PBUH).

[Masuma]

@ brother Woodrow:
Oho! Again the same thing- brother disproving IS necessary many times. For daw'ah one can use many techniques. In some case, as long as one might not disprove a fallacy, one might not be able to get his point across. E.g. if a Christian keeps on repeating that 'Trinity is right', so you can't just simply keep giving proofs for your beliefs. Now you first NEED to disprove Trinity and then give proofs for your beliefs. So actuly in this case, DISPROVING a wrong belief was more important! And do you know, even sometimes ''offering proofs for our beliefs'' actualy involves 'disproving' as the first step. E.g. when you are trying to prove that Quran is the word of God, so you would be required to disprove the claim that it was copied from the philosophers etc.
Now the thing is that we can't generalise people here. Different people have different ways of realising the truth and coming to a right way. That is why Allah orders Muslims to use different techniques suitable in a particular situation. Like in Surah Al- Imran, Verse 3, Allah says to call people of the book to ''common terms''; no disproving or offering proofs for our beliefs here! :D
So none of the techniques is unnecessary. Each and everyone of them
works in different conditions. :)

[Woodrow]

@ brother Woodrow:
Oho! Again the same thing- brother disproving IS necessary many times. For daw'ah one can use many techniques. In some case, as long as one might not disprove a fallacy, one might not be able to get his point across. E.g. if a Christian keeps on repeating that 'Trinity is right', so you can't just simply keep giving proofs for your beliefs. Now you first NEED to disprove Trinity and then give proofs for your beliefs. So actuly in this case, DISPROVING a wrong belief was more important! And do you know, even sometimes ''offering proofs for our beliefs'' actualy involves 'disproving' as the first step. E.g. when you are trying to prove that Quran is the word of God, so you would be required to disprove the claim that it was copied from the philosophers etc.
Now the thing is that we can't generalise people here. Different people have different ways of realising the truth and coming to a right way. That is why Allah orders Muslims to use different techniques suitable in a particular situation. Like in Surah Al- Imran, Verse 3, Allah says to call people of the book to ''common terms''; no disproving or offering proofs for our beliefs here! :D
So none of the techniques is unnecessary. Each and everyone of them
works in different conditions. :)

:sl:


At last we discover we actually agree.

Very true we each have our own gifts as to the best approach to Da'wah and what is best for one person may not work for another.