The Pangs of Divorce

[Beardo]

http://invalidtruth.com/blog/the-pangs-of-divorce/

I was reading an essay by William Pollack and Todd Shuster the other day in regards to parental divorce. The book stated that 50% of first marriages end in divorce. Being the critical minded person that I am, I double checked the stats on-line, and it truly did range between 45% and 50%. That’s quite a staggering number. Where does divorce root from? Infatuation? Miscommunication?

At any rate, the essay began with two quotes which really leave a lump in your throat, especially coming from these adoloscent children:

“I don’t know why they got divorced. They were a happy couple.”

- Garcia, 12

“I felt like someone had put a undred daggers in my heart. I never before knew what divorce really meant or what went with it…My dad moved out less than a month later.”

- Bruce, 14

The author of this specific essay was 15 years old. He described how this negatively impacted his life. After his parents’ divorce, he did his research on not only the divorce process but also his family divorce history. He stated that on either side of his family, he found absolutely no possible divorces up the chain of ancestors. The boy went on saying how he would come home and realize that if he would ever want to talk to either parent, he would have to go to a different town or perhaps even across the street. Yet, it pained him to know that it was not the next bedroom down the hall. It was not under the same roof.

Divorce itself comes unexpectedly for the most part. It’s a pity to see the rates so painstakingly high. Perhaps it would be beneficial to know the roots of divorce. In my own experience, I noticed that every time the topic of marriage comes up in a class setting, the word divorce just has to be mentioned. The two words have become almost synonymous. Marriage, divorce, marriage, divorce. Yet, the two words have a world of a difference in meaning and connotation. It’s a word that every happy couple fears to mention after the two words (I do) are uttered. Yet, stuff happens.

Do we look down upon the divorcees? I would say yes. Not that we should, because none of us know the true story. We just infer and imagine that behind the couple’s bedroom doors, there must have been a lot of massacre, disaster, and bloodshed. It must be even worse on the divorcees to having stand in public and say that he/she is a divorced person. Though, with these recent staggering divorce rates, I do expect that in the future generations, it’ll become more like a household issue. I’m sure each of us have heard of our own cases. People after 4o or 50 years still getting divorced. You wonder, after decades upon decades of living together, how can you still have misunderstandings? Yet, stuff happens.

It’s not for us to judge because neither of us are immune to it. That’s really the key to remember whenever you judge someone in regards to any aspect. Divorce itself affects the entire family. You have to face the public’s pressing questions. By “you”, I am referring to the immediate relations of the divorcees. “But why did they get divorced?” or “But what really happened?” It’s really something they do not want to talk about, as it only brings back the pitiful memories of your first official and legal love.

But at the end of the day, we are heartless and forgetful people. We still press on these questions and let our curiosity flow at any cost. Even though it won’t affect our lives in any way knowing or unknowing, we only care to have a subject to discuss on the next social gathering. These idle talks lead us to have such selfish behavior. Just leave that which does not concern you and have some sympathy for those who are undergoing trials of their own.

Rashad Abdullah

[Dagless]

Is 50% for the USA? I think it depends on nationality, religion, culture, etc. Muslims as a group would probably be way below that figure.

[Beardo]

^ Hmm... You're right. It might have been in the US.

[glo]

Don't get me wrong.
I think divorce is a good thing - nobody should be forced to remain in a relationship which brings misery and suffering to one or both partners, not to speak about any children involved.

But I also think that people give up on their relationships much too easily.
Whether it is when the first glow of attraction wears of or the first excitement of being a (married) couple, and when the realization hits that the partner is not the most perfect and wonderful human being in the universe after all - many people see that as a sign that the relationship is wrong and that they made a mistake ...

The truth is, living together as a couple is hard work!
It requires the constant willingness of both partners to love each other, care for each other, forgive each other and work together.

In the 24 years I have been with my husband I have had many moments when I was angry and fed up, and when I even contemplated walking out and starting again elsewhere. No doubt my husband has had similar feelings over the years.
However, we keep pulling together and walking together.
We know that we love each other and that we make a good team - and we are not going to through it away carelessly!

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[PouringRain]

Is there a table somewhere that shows the divorce rates among Muslims? I scanned the web and found reports of anywhere form 10% to 40%.

[Beardo]

^ Muslims is a lot less, to my knowledge. That's partially because we do not have pre-marital relations.

[glo]

That's partially because we do not have pre-marital relations.

Can you explain how you think not having pre-marital relations affects the divorce rate positively?

Thank you.

[EllyDicious]

Can you explain how you think not having pre-marital relations affects the divorce rate positively?

Thank you.

It kind of affects because as far as I know, Islamic people don't know their partners until they get married.
They have arranged marriage. Thus, not knowing the partner in all aspects, effects the divorce rate because you can't be forced to get married to someone you haven't known and don't love.

Said this, I don't think this is the only reason for the divorce rate, but It could be one of the reasons.

[marwen]

Can you explain how you think not having pre-marital relations affects the divorce rate positively?

Thank you.

If you have been dating a lot of girls / boys before marriage (who could probably be more beautiful/cool than your partner) 3 things can ruin your marriage :
1) you feel that you prefer a free (without marriage) relationship like you had in the past : no responsibility, no duties.
2) you start comparing your partner with the guys/girls you knew in the past and probably you find him/her not as good as them.
3) many partners still keep contacts with boyfriends/girlfriends he/she met in the past (phone calls, ...) so the relationship with the present partner is not so strong and it's easy to divorce and make/restart another relationship.

[EllyDicious]

If you have been dating a lot of girls / boys before marriage (who could probably be more beautiful/cool than your partner) 3 things can ruin your marriage :
1) you feel that you prefer a free (without marriage) relationship like you had in the past : no responsibility, no duties.
2) you start comparing your partner with the guys/girls you knew in the past and probably you find him/her not as good as them.
3) many partners still keep contacts with boyfriends/girlfriends he/she met in the past (phone calls, ...) so the relationship with the present partner is not so strong and it's easy to divorce and make/restart another relationship.

This happens when your marriage is arranged. But when you marry someone you love , you don't need to make comparisons or think about your past partners.

The divorce rate is high because people in Islam don't marry who they love. They marry what's best according to their parents. So it's obvious that partners will think about the past relationship.

[cat eyes]

well a marriage dose not have to be arranged for a marriage to have problems. marriage can break down if one spouse is practicing the deen and the other is not.

in the muslim world to day this seems to be the reason for high divorce rate and unhappiness and miserable atmosphere among married couples

And when you have a spouse not practicing many problems come in to the marriage like he may not be lowering his gaze.. he wears inappropriate clothing. he speaks vulgar and has anger issues. today these are issues which our sisters are facing and this is why they turn to divorce to seek peace because when your partner dose not have iman it effects everything.

Marwen you raised some good points such as the guy still keeping in contact with old girlfriends that he had dated in the past, again this is all because of the spouse not practicing

[Dagless]

This happens when your marriage is arranged. But when you marry someone you love , you don't need to make comparisons or think about your past partners.

The divorce rate is high because people in Islam don't marry who they love. They marry what's best according to their parents. So it's obvious that partners will think about the past relationship.

The comment above makes no sense.
1) We have already agreed that Muslim divorce rates would be lower, not higher.
2) How can they think about past relationships when technically there would be no past relationships?
3) People marry for lots of reasons; parents choice maybe among the reasons for some but its not the only, or even the most important, reason for most.

[CosmicPathos]

The comment above makes no sense.
1) We have already agreed that Muslim divorce rates would be lower, not higher.
2) How can they think about past relationships when technically there would be no past relationships?
3) People marry for lots of reasons; parents choice maybe among the reasons for some but its not the only, or even the most important, reason for most.

Thanks God, someone else is thinking what I am thinking in regards to her comment.

[CosmicPathos]

This happens when your marriage is arranged. But when you marry someone you love , you don't need to make comparisons or think about your past partners.

The divorce rate is high because people in Islam don't marry who they love. They marry what's best according to their parents. So it's obvious that partners will think about the past relationship.

lol. What is love? 10 years ago I used to love the cartoon Swat Cats. I dont love them today. In the same way, what guarantee is there that I will keep loving JUST one woman for the rest of my life? lol. There is no thing called "eternal love for humans" in life. Even our love for God can increase or decrease depending on faith.

So if "Islamic people" married based on love, and not arranged marriages, there divorce rates would be lower? How so? What if 5 years down the road they stop loving each other and get divorce? So are you saying that they never "truly" loved in the first place?????? is that what you are saying??????

[cat eyes]

fat cat has to butt in just to comment on the sisters post i think what she means is marriage will be more successful if they are not forced to marry somebody and marry somebody who they fancy/love/like:><:

[Cabdullahi]

in islam we marry who we like so what is the fuss all about?......there is a high divorce rate because couples are not fully acquainted with the rights and responsibilites that come with marriage they've neglected Allah's commands :(

[glo]

I would say that regardless of whether a couple marries out of love or as part of an arranged marriage, a marriage is something which will have to grow and develop.

Whether it is the early infatuation with each other (in the love marriage) or the early awkwardness and uncertainty with each other (in an arranged marriage), the two partners will hopefully move on from those first emotions to grow together in mutual respect, love (yes, LOVE, but not simply lust) and care for each other.

If they continue with their early emotional state instead of maturing into a more meaningful relationship, then the marriage may well not be stable enough to last ... regardless of whether it was a love or arranged marriage ...

[Beardo]

I would say that regardless of whether a couple marries out of love or as part of an arranged marriage, a marriage is something which will have to grow and develop.

Whether it is the early infatuation with each other (in the love marriage) or the early awkwardness and uncertainty with each other (in an arranged marriage), the two partners will hopefully move on from those first emotions to grow together in mutual respect, love (yes, LOVE, but not simply lust) and care for each other.

If they continue with their early emotional state instead of maturing into a more meaningful relationship, then the marriage may well not be stable enough to last ... regardless of whether it was a love or arranged marriage ...

That's how it's intended to be, yes indeed. I totally agree with what you say. It's a development process.

[CosmicPathos]

fat cat has to butt in just to comment on the sisters post i think what she means is marriage will be more successful if they are not forced to marry somebody and marry somebody who they fancy/love/like:><:

sis fat cat :D,

but she has no evidence for that. I doubt if majority of "Islamic people" are forced to marry ... as she is saying ...

[EllyDicious]

lol. What is love? 10 years ago I used to love the cartoon Swat Cats.

What you say is ridiculous because you compare the love for cartoon to the love for a human being. You even claim to be a "scientist", yet you make these silly comparisons.
Love can increase/decrease but once it comes, never goes. So when you start t love someone for real, you won't cease to love them just like you did with a cartoon.
It's also silly how you compare love for a woman with love for a cartoon. You think woman can be loved like a cartoon? *facepalm*

at cat has to butt in just to comment on the sisters post i think what she means is marriage will be more successful if they are not forced to marry somebody and marry somebody who they fancy/love/like

Yes, that's what I meant.
If you marry someone you love, chances are less for a divorce.

Clearly, people who don't know what is love, can't understand what I'm saying. They just follow what they've been told to do and what they've been told to marry.

[Asiyah3]

But when you marry someone you love , you don't need to make comparisons or think about your past partners.

This is not the way it always goes in reality.

The divorce rate is high because people in Islam don't marry who they love. They marry what's best according to their parents.

Do you have evidence or authoritative statistics to make such statements? Or have you met all 1,6 billion muslims? To educate you a bit read the below since you said 'people in Islam'. :)

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We do not think that there is anything better for those who love one another than marriage.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1847; classed as saheeh by al-Busayri and by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 624)

[EllyDicious]

in islam we marry who we like so what is the fuss all about?......there is a high divorce rate because couples are not fully acquainted with the rights and responsibilites that come with marriage they've neglected Allah's commands :(

I agree with this. People nowadays don't know / are lazy to take the responsibility in marriage.

I also agree that love doesn't come just suddenly but it grows on you.
But I think partners should know each other before they get married. If I marry someone I don't know, and the next day I find a lot of things about him I don't like, am I forced to stay with him?
That's why I'm against arranged marriages.

[EllyDicious]

This is not the way it goes in reality.

How do you know that?
All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.

:)

Do you have evidence or authoritative statistics to make such statements? Or have you met all 1,6 billion muslims? To educate you a bit read the below since you said 'people in Islam'. :)

I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

[CosmicPathos]

What you say is ridiculous because you compare the love for cartoon to the love for a human being. You even claim to be a "scientist", yet you make these silly comparisons.
Love can increase/decrease but once it comes, never goes. So when you start t love someone for real, you won't cease to love them just like you did with a cartoon.
It's also silly how you compare love for a woman with love for a cartoon. You think woman can be loved like a cartoon? *facepalm*


Yes, that's what I meant.
If you marry someone you love, chances are less for a divorce.

Clearly, people who don't know what is love, can't understand what I'm saying. They just follow what they've been told to do and what they've been told to marry.

You claim to be a law student yet you know jack about reality.

Why is my love for cartoon non-comparable to my love for a human? Who are you to judge the intensity of MY love and what I love? So you are saying that some man's love for a woman is superior to my love for a cartoon? Who gave you the right to judge which love is superior as it relates to me and things which I love? I dont know if woman can be loved like a cartoon but I am talking about love without focussing on the nature of the beloved. I've seen many people who "truly and really" loved each other but 10 years down the road they abhorred, hated and were disgusted from each other. So what you are saying has no bit of truth to it.

I would not want the hedonism of your "love marriage" to permeate into our Islamic people. keep your stuff to yourself.

[Asiyah3]

All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.

Or course not. You were the one who generalized it, not me. I only replied to your claim and said that the opposite does happen in reality - not to all, but it happens. It wouldn't take me long to link you to such cases.

I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

I highly doubt MOST OF THEM. I think this is only practised in South asia mostly, not sure though.

[CosmicPathos]

How do you know that?
All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.

:)



I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

Where are the statistics and where are the numbers? What you have done or met is irrelevant because you probably met a cluster which was biased.

[CosmicPathos]

Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.


Or course not. You were the one who generalized it, not me. I only replied to your claim and said that the opposite does happen in reality - not to all, but it happens.


I highly doubt MOST OF THEM. I think this is only practised in South asia mostly, not sure though.
Do you have something against arranged marriages by the way?

Arranged marriages happen in Arab world too. The families get together and meet. if the Wali does not like the man for valid Islamic reasons, he can reject him no matter how much in love the woman is to this guy. That's arranged marriage. But the Wali cannot force the girl to marry a guy whom she does not want to get married. Arranged marriages are NOT forced marriages.

[Asiyah3]

Arranged marriages happen in Arab world too. The families get together and meet. if the Wali does not like the man for valid Islamic reasons, he can reject him no matter how much in love the woman is to this guy. That's arranged marriage.

I know they do, but thanks anyway. I said "I think this is only practised in South Asia mostly". I merely meant that it's not so common to conclude that most cases in Arabia are arranged.

Jazakallah.

[CosmicPathos]

I know they do, but thanks anyway. I said "I think this is only practised in South Asia mostly". I merely meant that it's not so common to conclude that most cases in Arabia are arranged.

Jazakallah.

most marriages in Arabia are arranged. What else do you call a marriage in which you have to get permission of wali to get married? What else do you call a marriage in which as lovers you cannot hang out together and get to know each other in quite some detail before marriage?

[CosmicPathos]

dp............

[Asiyah3]

most marriages in Arabia are arranged. What else do you call a marriage in which you have to get permission of wali to get married?

A marriage is arranged when your parents choose you a husband/wife. If an arranged marriage is the condition of having the parents' approval, then yeah most cases in Arabia fit your definition.

[EllyDicious]

You claim to be a law student yet you know jack about reality.

It's funny how you claim to know the reality by comparing love for a cartoon to love for a woman.
It's funny how you forget that women are not cartoons and thus can't be loved as such.
It's funny how you talk to ME about the reality when you don't know that life/love are not like in the cartoon you see on TV.

I feel mercy for you.

Why is my love for cartoon non-comparable to my love for a human? Who are you to judge the intensity of MY love and what I love? So you are saying that some man's love for a woman is superior to my love for a cartoon? Who gave you the right to judge which love is superior as it relates to me and things which I love? I dont know if woman can be loved like a cartoon but I am talking about love without focussing on the nature of the beloved. I've seen many people who "truly and really" loved each other but 10 years down the road they abhorred, hated and were disgusted from each other. So what you are saying has no bit of truth to it.

Have you ever loved a human in your life? Have you ever loved a woman in your life?
I guess no. So don't talk if you haven't tried any kind of love for people. Love for a human/woman is complex and contains lots of different feelings.
You don't know how ridiculous you sound for being surprised about the fact that love for a cartoon can't be compared to love for a woman.
I wonder where you live and what people surround you.
Is this what your religion turns people into? Did Muhammad say that you can love/tread a woman like an object/cartoon?
I guess no. But it's YOUR "scientific" mind that thinks like this.

I would not want the hedonism of your "love marriage" to permeate into our Islamic people. keep your stuff to yourself.

I wonder how you can call yourself a 'scientist' when you are so narrow-minded and ignorant.
NO, I won't keep my stuff to myself. I'm free and allowed to share my opinion and you can't prevent me from doing it.

[QUOTE_muslim_]Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.
[/QUOTE]
Just because you've seen and heard too many, doesn't mean you can create a general statistics about it . Just like I've heard the opposite of what you heard, doesn't mean it's everywhere like this.
That's why I always say, different people have different experiences.

Do you have something against arranged marriages by the way?

Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.
If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.

[CosmicPathos]

It's funny how you claim to know the reality by comparing love for a cartoon to love for a woman.
It's funny how you forget that women are not cartoons and thus can't be loved as such.
It's funny how you talk to ME about the reality when you don't know that life/love are not like in the cartoon you see on TV.

I feel mercy for you.


Have you ever loved a human in your life? Have you ever loved a woman in your life?
I guess no. So don't talk if you haven't tried any kind of love for people. Love for a human/woman is complex and contains lots of different feelings.
You don't know how ridiculous you sound for being surprised about the fact that love for a cartoon can't be compared to love for a woman.
I wonder where you live and what people surround you.
Is this what your religion turns people into? Did Muhammad say that you can love/tread a woman like an object/cartoon?
I guess no. But it's YOUR "scientific" mind that thinks like this.


I wonder how you can call yourself a 'scientist' when you are so narrow-minded and ignorant.
NO, I won't keep my stuff to myself. I'm free and allowed to share my opinion and you can't prevent me from doing it.

[QUOTE_muslim_]Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.

Just because you've seen and heard too many, doesn't mean you can create a general statistics about it . Just like I've heard the opposite of what you heard, doesn't mean it's everywhere like this.
That's why I always say, different people have different experiences.


Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.
If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.[/QUOTE]

Dont impose your beliefs on others. You dont need to tell me that since I have not loved a woman then I cannot talk about love. There are more things in life to love than just loving the opposite gender.

[CosmicPathos]

A marriage is arranged when your parents choose you a husband/wife. If an arranged marriage is the condition of having the parents' approval, then yeah most cases in Arabia fit your definition.

well you can disagree but you cannot change the rule of Islam which states that a wali can reject the proposal of a guy if the reasons are Islamic, now matter HOW much heads over heels is that woman for that guy. Hence, Islamic marriage can never be "love marriage" as defined from secular standards.

[Cabdullahi]

arranged marriage is love marriage.......two people who want to marry speak to each other and arrange to meet with others present and then if they're compatible they marry and then love blossoms...so what the problem is?

infatuation marriage is marriage after having tried everything zina related Audhibillah!

[CosmicPathos]

arranged marriage is love marriage.......two people who want to marry speak to each other and arrange to meet with others present and then if they're compatible they marry and then love blossoms...so what the problem is?

infatuation marriage is marriage after having tried everything zina related Audhibillah!

but bro, can one really call that "love" which has developed in like few months and has not even been explored ... perhaps there might be a certain important aspect of that person which the other person could not gauge before marrying her just because they could not hang out ... You would only discover flaws "AFTER" marriage, not before marriage, as that is the only chance to then interact with that person freely.

[Asiyah3]

Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.

I agree.

If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.

Hey hey, I never talked about forced marriage. I simply meant a marriage where your friends or parents arrange a meeting between you and someone compatible.

Forced marriages are wrong of course. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman should not be married without being consulted, and a virgin should not be married without asking her permission.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given?” He said, “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6455).

[CosmicPathos]

I agree.


Hey hey, I never talked about forced marriage. I simply meant a marriage where your friends or parents arrange a meeting between you and someone compatible.

Forced marriages are wrong of course. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman should not be married without being consulted, and a virgin should not be married without asking her permission.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given?” He said, “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6455).

indeed. She is comparing arranged marriage with forced marriage. What a lie!

In South Asia, when "arranged marriages" are done, first engagement is done. Which is not Nikah. in the time period between engagement and nikah the two people talk to each other and understand each other and develop "love" for each other. If it works out then they get married, if it does not then engagement is called off! How is that arranged marriage?!!

On the other hand, Islamic marriage is arranged marriage! You have NO chance to interact with the opposite gender in normal setting to gauge how they are in daily life. Anyone can fake anything in controlled setting. That being said, I am not against Islamic marriage.

[Asiyah3]

well you can disagree but you cannot change the rule of Islam which states that a wali can reject the proposal of a guy if the reasons are Islamic, now matter HOW much heads over heels is that woman for that guy. Hence, Islamic marriage can never be "love marriage" as defined from secular standards.

I agree, except that it should be clarified that in such cases Islamic marriages can't be "love marriage".

[EllyDicious]

but bro, can one really call that "love" which has developed in like few months and has not even been explored ... perhaps there might be a certain important aspect of that person which the other person could not gauge before marrying her just because they could not hang out ... You would only discover flaws "AFTER" marriage, not before marriage, as that is the only chance to then interact with that person freely.

NO. You can discover flaws BEFORE getting married. That's why people need to stay in a relationship to see if they are compatible with each other, then they can decided whether they want to get married or not.

But in Islam this is haraam, so clearly there's no other choice but to get married.

[EllyDicious]

I agree.


Hey hey, I never talked about forced marriage. I simply meant a marriage where your friends or parents arrange a meeting between you and someone compatible.

Forced marriages are wrong of course. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman should not be married without being consulted, and a virgin should not be married without asking her permission.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given?” He said, “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6455).

Then I have misunderstood the difference between 'forced' and 'arranged' marriage.

[CosmicPathos]

NO. You can discover flaws BEFORE getting married. That's why people need to stay in a relationship to see if they are compatible with each other, then they can decided whether they want to get married or not.

But in Islam this is haraam, so clearly there's no other choice but to get married.

We have tawakkul in Allah and we believe whatever happens, happens for the best. We dont need to stay in filthy, satanic, abhorrent relationships before marriage to gauge the other person. Only immoral people need to do that.

[Cabdullahi]

You claim to be a law student yet you know jack about reality.

Why is my love for cartoon non-comparable to my love for a human? Who are you to judge the intensity of MY love and what I love? So you are saying that some man's love for a woman is superior to my love for a cartoon? .

cartoon vs woman who's better lets find out??

companionship
woman is known to be one of the best companions a man can have
cartoons disappear when the Tv is switched off.

therefore woman wins!

[Asiyah3]

NO. You can discover flaws BEFORE getting married. That's why people need to stay in a relationship to see if they are compatible with each other, then they can decided whether they want to get married or not..

Why is the divorce rate so high in the West when most couples spend so much time dating and living together before marriage?

[EllyDicious]

Only immoral people need to do that.

Who are you to judge people who stay in relationships before marriage?
You told me not to be judgmental, yet you are being 100times more than me.

I'm not surprised why some religious men are the most hypocrite people on earth! They tell you something is wrong but still they keep on doing the same mistake.

[CosmicPathos]

Why is the divorce rate so high in the West when most couples spend so much time dating and living together before marriage?

Sorry to say sister, but that is not a valid argument. Divorce rate during the times of Saahaaba was also high. We cannot use argument against them which also applies to us.

[CosmicPathos]

Who are you to judge people who stay in relationships before marriage?
You told me not to be judgmental, yet you are being 100times more than me.

I'm not surprised why some religious men are the most hypocrite people on earth! They tell you something is wrong but still they keep on doing the same mistake.

well if you can tell me that my love for cartoon is disgusting, I can tell you that too.

Some non-religious women are the most hypocrite humans ever come to life.

[CosmicPathos]

cartoon vs woman who's better lets find out??

companionship
woman is known to be one of the best companions a man can have
cartoons disappear when the Tv is switched off.

therefore woman wins!

I still insist that cartoon is better. For me at least. At the time being.

[Asiyah3]

Who are you to judge people who stay in relationships before marriage?

Ever heard of a 'freedom of opinion'?

[EllyDicious]

Why is the divorce rate so high in the West when most couples spend so much time dating and living together before marriage?

Because in the West people don't take time to know each other more. They get married thinking that marriage has no responsibility, thinking that marriage is a field with flowers.
Many of the relationships in the west are immature and are based on sex. I'm against these relationships. People over there don't like to be responsible but they forget that marriage has great responsibility and when they find out about it, they are not able to handle it the right way.

Also, people over there are lazy to try and work out a marriage. They think divorcing is the best / easiest choice.
I don't agree with this, but that's the way they mostly are.

THat's why I say it's important for people to know each other more before marriage.

[Asiyah3]

I still insist that cartoon is better. For me at least. At the time being.

Why? if I may ask.

[EllyDicious]

Ever heard of a 'freedom of opinion'?

Sure. But when I was expressing my free opinion, he was telling me not to judge. So I told him the same thing back.

Simple.

[Cabdullahi]

but bro, can one really call that "love" which has developed in like few months and has not even been explored ... perhaps there might be a certain important aspect of that person which the other person could not gauge before marrying her just because they could not hang out ... You would only discover flaws "AFTER" marriage, not before marriage, as that is the only chance to then interact with that person freely.

As you probably know prevention is better than cure and islam is all about prevention......and hence hanging out is not allowed and i didnt say love forms in mere few months...love forms after marriage after a long period and lastly you dont need to hang out with someone somewhere in isolation to tell them something important...unless you wanna get them into bed asap?

[Cabdullahi]

Why? if I may ask.

It's a wind up.....he's just playing....no guy will love cartoon more than women...his body wont let him never!

[CosmicPathos]

As you probably know prevention is better than cure and islam is all about prevention......and hence hanging out is not allowed and i didnt say love forms in mere few months...love forms after marriage after a long period and lastly you dont need to hang out with someone somewhere in isolation to tell them something important...unless you wanna get them into bed asap?

hmm but it seemed from what you said that love can be developed in few moments of knowing the other person and hence we can call islamic marriage a "love marriage." Lets not be apologetic to bend over our backs to justify what we believe in to these ppl.

[EllyDicious]

It's a wind up.....he's just playing....no guy will love cartoon more than women...his body wont let him never!

Of course he's playing.
And he pretty much knows I'm right. It's just that his ego won't let him tell me I'm right. ;)

[Asiyah3]

They get married thinking that marriage has no responsibility, thinking that marriage is a field with flowers.
Many of the relationships in the west are immature and are based on sex. I'm against these relationships. People over there don't like to be responsible but they forget that marriage has great responsibility and when they find out about it, they are not able to handle it the right way.

Also, people over there are lazy to try and work out a marriage. They think divorcing is the best / easiest choice.
I don't agree with this, but that's the way they mostly are.

Great points.

Because in the West people don't take time to know each other more.
THat's why I say it's important for people to know each other more before marriage.

I don't think that is the right solution considering the statistics despite the years spent getting to know the partner. On the contrary, even though in the East people don't date before marriage, I see their relationships are much more successful and stable probably for the reasons you mentioned.

[Asiyah3]

Sorry to say sister, but that is not a valid argument. Divorce rate during the times of Saahaaba was also high. We cannot use argument against them which also applies to us.

True, I only used the divorce rate to show that the time might not be the solution.

[EllyDicious]

Great points.


I don't think that is the right solution considering the statistics despite the years spent getting to know the partner. On the contrary, even though in the East people don't date before marriage, I see their relationships are much more successful and stable probably for the reasons you mentioned.

Also, you may spend a lot of time with your partner, yet you don't love him or are very superficial about this relationship.
It depends on the person, really.

Personally, I'd like to know someone before getting married but this doesn't mean that I want to break up or that I want to have many partners.

I think life in the west has gone in degradation. Half of the families are divorced while women have 100 partners.
I'm against this kind of life, but still I wouldn't stay with someone I was forced to marry.

[Dagless]

Personally, I'd like to know someone before getting married but this doesn't mean that I want to break up or that I want to have many partners.

I think life in the west has gone in degradation. Half of the families are divorced while women have 100 partners.
I'm against this kind of life, but still I wouldn't stay with someone I was forced to marry.

Can't you see one will lead to the other?

You want to get to know someone before getting married (on a very long term basis it seems since you think people in the west don't get to know each other for long enough :|) but you are against the kind of life where women have 100 partners.

If you get to know someone but you don't like them then you will move onto someone else. It is unlikely you will settle on the first or even the second or third... because you're human. Humans get bored, and the grass is always greener etc.

You can't have it both ways.

[Cabdullahi]

Can't you see one will lead to the other?

You want to get to know someone before getting married (on a very long term basis it seems since you think people in the west don't get to know each other for long enough :|) but you are against the kind of life where women have 100 partners.

If you get to know someone but you don't like them then you will move onto someone else. It is unlikely you will settle on the first or even the second or third... because you're human. Humans get bored, and the grass is always greener etc.

You can't have it both ways.

human beings want perfection...they're never satisfied......

in islam we get to know the person whilst having parental monitoring....so you can meet up with the person and chat with them for however long you see fit

[EllyDicious]

Can't you see one will lead to the other?

You want to get to know someone before getting married (on a very long term basis it seems since you think people in the west don't get to know each other for long enough :|) but you are against the kind of life where women have 100 partners.

If you get to know someone but you don't like them then you will move onto someone else. It is unlikely you will settle on the first or even the second or third... because you're human. Humans get bored, and the grass is always greener etc.

You can't have it both ways.

You do have a point in that. But I'm not going / don't want to be in a relationship with everyone who I come across to. I'm picky and I want to choose my partner.
Sure It could be the first partner I may end up marrying, but It may not. If I make a mistake in the first relationship, I'd try to not repeat the same mistake when looking for a man.