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h-n
07-11-2010, 03:24 AM
Firstly, I like to say a big :aboo:to all those that hate me posting and creating threads.


Right back to business.

There are real issues were people misuse Islam in society. They are willing to use Islam to get people to do what they want, when they do not care for Islam, but for the life of this world. This is why they are also bothered and do honour killings, note they don't show so much concern about fearing the fires of Hell, but they show so much bother if their child doesn't do what they ask.

For example they tell people not to listen to music and watch TV, they do NOT do this for a Islamic reasons, but to oppress people. If you have a careful look at those people, they don't look towards the next world. Allah has asked people to worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement.

They are fearful of children not doing and living how they want them to live and importantly be. Allah has allowed us to have individual personalities etc. We are to develop and be who we are accepting Islam of course. Allah has provided people so much, the oceans, the fields not provided them so we sit down oppressed.

There are plenty of people who don't want their children to "get any ideas" (by watching TV etc) and don't want them to be influenced by others -again not for an Islamic reason, but to get children to live how they want them to live in this world! This of course is not good. As you are stopping children from reaching their potential.

Even people have commented on my "Marriages not being approved" thread. They have not refuted the post 1 of the thread. They could not handle people being who they can and will be.

So they try and use Islam to back themselves up when there intention is not for the life of the next world or thinking about the Day of Judgement. Look at their oppostion if their child decides to get married to someone. Again they are more bothered about this, instead of remembering the Day of Judgement. To them its a calamity if their child does not marry who they wish them to marry, it is foolish. Why don't they show so much care about people going into the fires of Hell instead? That we all will be brought together on the Day of Judgement instead?


Why bother asking people to care about something that they will not care about on the Day of Judgement, neither do they agree with you in this world anyway, ie you like them to get married to so and so.

If they really cared about their children being Muslims, why not talk and warn about the Major signs of the Day of Judgement, be more bothered about them getting an Islamic education? Why more attention being paid to having children rather then saving oneself from the Hell fire??

Similar to responses in the past.

Please remember that this is why the idol worshippers also rejected the message of Allah, not because they didn't know the truth, but because they also knew that if people accepted the one God and remember the Day of Judgement, they could not oppress them anymore. Force people to live how they wanted them to live. Even hearing the Prophet for the first time telling them to worship the one God and remember the Day of Judgement had this effect.

The people in society are willing to use anything from Islam, ie to tell people to get married etc, in how to live in this world, but if you look carefully those people don't want to think about countries ending the Day of Judgement being upon us. They don't care about Islam, but willing to use anything for the convenience to oppress others.

This is also a follow up from the "Evil society" thread.

Also considering that there are people that are not thinking, this thread is not about TV, Music etc, that is an example. It is not about what the rights or wrongs that children do, or respecting parents etc. Or that its there job to teach children to be good, or what good Muslim parents do etc. I am talking about people using Islam not so their children can be good Muslims but for the life of this world. So do not derail this thread!!
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h-n
07-11-2010, 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by Halcyon
Any scientific evidence for what you are claiming?
What scientific evidence have got to do with this?? When people have already observed such behaviour. If you disagree, then write a new thread about it.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 05:58 AM
Originally Posted by Halcyon
you are making some hefty claims. They might be just your biased observations. I would want to see a random sample of families show this behavior. Some rigorous statistical calculations would substantiate your claim that parents tell their children things to control them.
Frankly I don't care if you accept it or not, as I know its true. Or better still wait till the Day of Judgement then.

Islam isn't about convincing people, they know the truth when they hear and see it. It is a fact that many people look for the life of this world rather then the next.

Why else would they tell the children who to get married too? Marriage is mostly normal for people to want in their life. Why do some parents for example feel the need to persuade children to get married? When marriage is normal.

There are plenty of cases and forced marriage is a prime example. It is about how they live and with whom. If it was solely about marriage then they wouldn't have a problem marrying any Muslim. So that is trying to tell others how to live.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...rced-marriages

Even read the case above were Mayah was drugged and wheelchaired to the airport!!!!! If that isn't about controlling other people then what the hell is????

But here are some Muslim women going through forced marriages issues;-
http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-12-0...women-marriage

No need to derail my threads if you refuse to believe the obvious, I don't care.
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Insecured soul
07-11-2010, 06:06 AM
I guess not all muslims uses islam for thier own benefit, there would be some of them im not sure, allahu alam

and I would take a stand of brother abdullahi and say nice colour coding
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h-n
07-11-2010, 06:12 AM
Originally Posted by Adib Shaikh
I guess not all muslims uses islam for thier own benefit, there would be some of them im not sure, allahu alam

and I would take a stand of brother abdullahi and say nice colour coding

Thank-you. Its important to stand up for what is right, as I would regret not opposing what is unIslamic on the Day of Judgement, and certainly regret siding with what is unIslamic or even turning a blind eye to what are serious issues. No matter the opposition always stay true to Islam, to what Allah has taught us. Not what unIslamic people want us to do.
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Sawdah
07-11-2010, 02:13 PM
:sl:

Sister, who are "they" that you mention in the first post?

:wa:
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noorseeker
07-11-2010, 02:52 PM
We all misuse islam , to suit us and our desires,

Only when we want something , then its islam says this , islam says that.

The classic being when we wanna marry someone from another race, we use islam, yes its a valid reason , but im saying how we misuse it.

The parents will always quote the verses be kind to your parents , when they want their way.

We should strive to fulfil the rights people have on us first, then we can think about asking about our rights.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by seekerofjannah
:sl:

Sister, who are "they" that you mention in the first post?

:wa:
The people who misuse Islam.
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Woodrow
07-11-2010, 04:06 PM
To be honest I find Sister h-n has made so very poignant observations. If she has made an error it is an error of wording and comes across as too generic. If her comment needs clarification the clarification should be in terms of specific examples.

I have seen people who do what she says. I knew at least 2 families in Austin, TX who controlled their children in the manner sister h-n describes.

Yes this is a problem and is seen not only in Islam but also among people of other faiths. I believe people who do such things come very close to meeting the definition of hypocrite, if they do not actually meet the definition of such.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
To be honest I find Sister h-n has made so very poignant observations. If she has made an error it is an error of wording and comes across as too generic. If her comment needs clarification the clarification should be in terms of specific examples.

I have seen people who do what she says. I knew at least 2 families in Austin, TX who controlled their children in the manner sister h-n describes.

Yes this is a problem and is seen not only in Islam but also among people of other faiths. I believe people who do such things come very close to meeting the definition of hypocrite, if they do not actually meet the definition of such.
Brother Woodrow

Thank-you for taking the time to letting us know. It is a very serious problem, that I don't think is taken seriously, and always the first step is awareness and get people to realise what is going on, and then spreading the word for people not to do it.

Sister h-n
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Alpha Dude
07-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Halcyon
you are making some hefty claims. They might be just your biased observations. I would want to see a random sample of families show this behavior. Some rigorous statistical calculations would substantiate your claim that parents tell their children things to control them.
It's common knowledge that muslims aren't being true to their faith. You can see that simply by the empty mosques, beardless faces, hijabless sisters, freemixing, dancing, drinking etc.

I find your asking for 'scientific proof' quite misplaced. Remember, Prophet Muhammad Sallalahu Alaihe Wassalam has said words to the effect that muslims near the end time will be large in number but worthless in terms of iman. The analogy he used was that we'd be like the foam of the sea.

People will use Islam for their benefit. If I remember correctly, that is also one of the minor signs of the end times.

Sister h-n, good post. Small unrelated advice: can you please post in plain text - I'm not too fond of the multi-coloured bold paragraphs. They detract from what you have to say.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude


Sister h-n, good post. Small unrelated advice: can you please post in plain text - I'm not too fond of the multi-coloured bold paragraphs. They detract from what you have to say.
Unfortunately, I won't stop using multi-colour, I usually highlight what are some summaries. I will rethink how I write these types of threads though (as they are in a different format without many subsections), so I'll reduce colour.

As I usually write long threads, it was needed for me, as people were just skimming through etc, I found that this worked.

Thanks for taking the time to read it, but not everyone reads it like yourself.
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Insecured soul
07-11-2010, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
Thank-you. Its important to stand up for what is right, as I would regret not opposing what is unIslamic on the Day of Judgement, and certainly regret siding with what is unIslamic or even turning a blind eye to what are serious issues. No matter the opposition always stay true to Islam, to what Allah has taught us. Not what unIslamic people want us to do.
I guess people who would stand up for what is right islamically and not culturally are very few and it would take a firm imaam on allah azzawajal and his laws, i personally feel the time which our ummah is going through is a difficult one though it might look and sound alrite but its not, may allah help us all coz everyone here is not safe from faults and is imperfect and only allah azzawajal is perfect.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 06:56 PM
Just found this, some good reading. from http://eqi.org/eabuse1.htm#Types%20o...tional%20Abuse

What is Emotional Abuse?
Abuse is any behavior that is designed to control and subjugate another human being through the use of fear, humiliation, intimidation, guilt, coercion, manipulation etc. Emotional abuse is any kind of abuse that is emotional rather than physical in nature. It can include anything from verbal abuse and constant criticism to more subtle tactics, such as repeated disapproval or even the refusal to ever be pleased.
Emotional abuse is like brain washing in that it systematically wears away at the victim's self-confidence, sense of self-worth, trust in their own perceptions, and self-concept. Whether it is done by constant berating and belittling, by intimidation, or under the guise of "guidance," "teaching", or "advice," the results are similar. Eventually, the recipient of the abuse loses all sense of self and remnants of personal value. Emotional abuse cuts to the very core of a person, creating scars that may be far deeper and more lasting that physical ones. In fact there is research to this effect. With emotional abuse, the insults, insinuations, criticism and accusations slowly eat away at the victim's self-esteem until she is incapable of judging the situation realistically. She has become so beaten down emotionally that she blames herself for the abuse. Her self-esteem is so low that she clings to the abuser.
Emotional abuse victims can become so convinced that they are worthless that they believe that no one else could want them. They stay in abusive situations because they believe they have nowhere else to go. Their ultimate fear is being all alone.

Types of Emotional Abuse
Abusive Expectations
  • The other person places unreasonable demands on you and wants you to put everything else aside to tend to their needs.
  • It could be a demand for constant attention, or a requirement that you spend all your free time with the person.
  • But no matter how much you give, it's never enough.
  • You are subjected to constant criticism, and you are constantly berated because you don't fulfill all this person's needs.
Aggressing
  • Aggressive forms of abuse include name-calling, accusing, blaming, threatening, and ordering. Aggressing behaviors are generally direct and obvious. The one-up position the abuser assumes by attempting to judge or invalidate the recipient undermines the equality and autonomy that are essential to healthy adult relationships. This parent-child pattern of communication (which is common to all forms of verbal abuse) is most obvious when the abuser takes an aggressive stance.

  • Aggressive abuse can also take a more indirect form and may even be disguised and "helping." Criticizing, advising, offering solutions, analyzing, proving, and questioning another person may be a sincere attempt to help. In some instances however, these behaviors may be an attempt to belittle, control, or demean rather than help. The underlying judgmental "I know best" tone the abuser takes in these situations is inappropriate and creates unequal footing in peer relationships. This and other types of emotional abuse can lead to what is known as learned helplessness.
Constant Chaos
  • The other person may deliberately start arguments and be in constant conflict with others.

  • The person may be "addicted to drama" since it creates excitement.
Denying
  • Denying a person's emotional needs, especially when they feel that need the most, and done with the intent of hurting, punishing or humiliating (Examples)

  • The other person may deny that certain events occurred or that certain things were said. confronts the abuser about an incident of name calling, the abuser may insist, "I never said that," "I don't know what you're talking about," etc. You know differently.

  • The other person may deny your perceptions, memory and very sanity.

  • Withholding is another form of denying. Withholding includes refusing to listen, refusing to communicate, and emotionally withdrawing as punishment. This is sometimes called the "silent treatment."

  • When the abuser disallows and overrules any viewpoints, perceptions or feelings which differ from their own.

  • Denying can be particularly damaging. In addition to lowering self-esteem and creating conflict, the invalidation of reality, feelings, and experiences can eventually lead you to question and mistrust your own perceptions and emotional experience.

  • Denying and other forms of emotional abuse can cause you to lose confidence in your most valuable survival tool: your own mind.
Dominating
  • Someone wants to control your every action. They have to have their own way, and will resort to threats to get it.
  • When you allow someone else to dominate you, you can lose respect for yourself.
Emotional Blackmail
  • The other person plays on your fear, guilt, compassion, values, or other "hot buttons" to get what they want.
  • This could include threats to end the relationship, totally reject or abandon you, giving you the the "cold shoulder," or using other fear tactics to control you.
Invalidation
  • The abuser seeks to distort or undermine the recipient's perceptions of their world. Invalidating occurs when the abuser refuses or fails to acknowledge reality. For example, if the recipient tells the person they felt hurt by something the abuser did or said, the abuser might say "You are too sensitive. That shouldn't hurt you." Here is a much more complete description of invalidation
Minimizing
  • Minimizing is a less extreme form of denial. When minimizing, the abuser may not deny that a particular event occurred, but they question the recipient's emotional experience or reaction to an event. Statements such as "You're too sensitive," "You're exaggerating," or "You're blowing this out of proportion" all suggest that the recipient's emotions and perceptions are faulty and not be trusted.

  • Trivializing, which occurs when the abuser suggests that what you have done or communicated is inconsequential or unimportant, is a more subtle form of minimizing.
Unpredictable Responses
  • Drastic mood changes or sudden emotional outbursts. Whenever someone in your life reacts very differently at different times to the same behavior from you, tells you one thing one day and the opposite the next, or likes something you do one day and hates it the next, you are being abused with unpredictable responses.

  • This behavior is damaging because it puts you always on edge. You're always waiting for the other shoe to drop, and you can never know what's expected of you. You must remain hypervigilant, waiting for the other person's next outburst or change of mood.

  • An alcoholic or drug abuser is likely to act this way. Living with someone like this is tremendously demanding and anxiety provoking, causing the abused person to feel constantly frightened, unsettled and off balance.
Verbal Assaults
  • Berating, belittling, criticizing, name calling, screaming, threatening
  • Excessive blaming, and using sarcasm and humiliation.
  • Blowing your flaws out of proportion and making fun of you in front of others. Over time, this type of abuse erodes your sense of self confidence and self-worth.
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Asiyah3
07-11-2010, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
Unfortunately, I won't stop using multi-colour, I usually highlight what are some summaries. I will rethink how I write these types of threads though (as they are in a different format without many subsections), so I'll reduce colour.

As I usually write long threads, it was needed for me, as people were just skimming through etc, I found that this worked.

Thanks for taking the time to read it, but not everyone reads it like yourself.
I think many others would agree with Alpha Dude. It's very distracting.

You could rather change the font if you want to highlight something.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by **muslimah**
I think many others would agree with Alpha Dude. It's very distracting.

You could rather change the font if you want to highlight something.
As stated I won't stop using colours, but I will relook at how to type these kinds of thread, which is were colour will be reduced.
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Alpha Dude
07-11-2010, 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by h-n
Unfortunately, I won't stop using multi-colour, I usually highlight what are some summaries. I will rethink how I write these types of threads though (as they are in a different format without many subsections), so I'll reduce colour.

As I usually write long threads, it was needed for me, as people were just skimming through etc, I found that this worked.

Thanks for taking the time to read it, but not everyone reads it like yourself.
Perhaps it is actually due to the colors that people get put off?

I'll be honest, I don't usually read multicoloured stuff (forced myself with this thread as the content was attractive). I tend to think of rainbow coloured text as a tool used by ditsy teenage girls to write in their diaries. That is why I think it detracts from your serious and mature message. You can't go wrong with plain and simple.

It might be a good idea to use bullet points or indentation if you want an easy way to find specific content. Maybe even number or put arrows (->) before interesting paragraphs.
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h-n
07-11-2010, 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
Perhaps it is actually due to the colors that people get put off?

I'll be honest, I don't usually read multicoloured stuff (forced myself with this thread as the content was attractive). I tend to think of rainbow coloured text as a tool used by ditsy teenage girls to write in their diaries. That is why I think it detracts from your serious and mature message. You can't go wrong with plain and simple.

It might be a good idea to use bullet points or indentation if you want an easy way to find specific content. Maybe even number or put arrows (->) before interesting paragraphs.
Actually started using colours after they were not reading the threads. Again I'll just change how I write this type of thread. The other ones were OK with few colours, and had more subsections ie "No such thing as Atheism" thread.

Thanks for taking the time to read the thread, and I certainly make changes to this type of thread that I write which is just kind of one narrative.
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