Question for teh boys!..!..

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Okay I duno how to put this buh am jus gonna be straightforward.. As boys/men, would you go for someone that wears a ninja head to toe or someone who don't cover herself.. Now I know, I mean it's obvious that gurlz who don't cover themselves are more attractive buh on a serious note, who would you as a guy go for and why? Btw, this has NOTHING to do with Islam.. Am jus sayin generally.. :hiding: I know some guys get put off if they see a gurl in a ninja cuz they feel she's too "Islamic" or too "extreme" or wahever.. Yet deep down that gurl could be an outgoing person.. Similarly, a gurl who don't cover herself properly, a guy could turn her down & yet deep down she could have the most amazing of characters.. So yeaaa, I was wonderin wah are your views on this? :><:

:wa:

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam,

The 'ninja' thing wouldn't put me off (I imagine that practising brothers would feel the same). I would consider it commendable if she were to opt for it (again, most others would feel the same), yet wouldn't think any less of her if she chose not to.

[Cabdullahi]

ninja all the way!! simply because i want her for me and nobody else, for my eyes only thats it! sounds a bit selfish i dont give a dam.n!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

what if I were to counter question and say would you b put off by a decently groomed fist length beard?

What if I were to say would you be put off by a brother who has no beard but has a nice personality...


I myself cant stand clean shaven faces, makes me wanna draw on it

and i myself... feel... CRINGY if i see a woman - especially a muslim sister - exposed. Makes me wanna throw a blanket on em!!!







Im telling you I know of brothers who have LOST feelings of "love" for certain hijaabless girls due to their loving the religion!

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[Woodrow]

:sl:

I am glad you posed the question for Boys. A man is actually very much turned off by scantly dressed females. The thoughts of lust may be there, but the actual thoughts and feelings for such a girl are quite derogatory. I say girl because a grown woman attracts a man for marriage, through maturity, intelligence and piety not by her body

Pretty bodies might be nice for teenagers, but most people live very many years past their teens in a body reflective of their age, physical attraction is not a good guide for selecting a wife.

Overall full covering is much more attractive to a man as it gives him the opportunity to really see who she is. The lack of clothing is the real disguise that hides the true woman.

[Salahudeen]

I would all ways go for the women who covers up, we don't tend to have a lot of respect for girls who just have it on display for everyone to see. You said girls who don't cover them self are more attractive this is not true, Islamic guys would find the girl who covers more attractive then the girl who doesn't. Guys see the girls who don't cover as only good for one thing they don't really respect them as individuals.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

@ OP: whats wrong with being a ninja :><: i dont know why people feel uneased about a sister covering her face...i think it looks wicked.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

:sl:

Okay I duno how to put this buh am jus gonna be straightforward.. As boys/men, would you go for someone that wears a ninja head to toe or someone who don't cover herself.. Now I know, I mean it's obvious that gurlz who don't cover themselves are more attractive buh on a serious note, who would you as a guy go for and why? Btw, this has NOTHING to do with Islam.. Am jus sayin generally.. :hiding: I know some guys get put off if they see a gurl in a ninja cuz they feel she's too "Islamic" or too "extreme" or wahever.. Yet deep down that gurl could be an outgoing person.. Similarly, a gurl who don't cover herself properly, a guy could turn her down & yet deep down she could have the most amazing of characters.. So yeaaa, I was wonderin wah are your views on this? :><:

:wa:

:w:

You have no ideas how Muslim guys operate do you? :skeleton: Let me break it down for you, at least the way I see it and the way that the brothers I know see it.

A girl that doesn't cover up, that doesn't at the very least wear Hijaab, be she Muslim or not, yeah she might look attractive and catch a guys attention, but no brother would seriously consider her anything more than someone that looks pretty in the sense of approaching her for marriage or something meaningful. I live in a place where if you walk down the street, you'll see beautiful women from all around the world and past the lowering the gaze aspect, I'm not attracted to them in a way that would make me want to go after them because there's no way that I'm going to marry someone that dresses that way. She might be a great person, great personality, caring, but I, personally speaking, won't be able get past the way she dresses, if it's immodest.

On the other hand, a sister that dresses modestly, jilbaab/hijaab or even niqaab, she's way more attractive than those women that hardly dress. Why? Because they're the ones that brothers can consider as a future wife and therefore turn out to be more fitnah in that sense than a girl that's wearing a mini-skirt - because at the end of the day this girl that's dressing awesomely modest, she might just end up being potential wife material.

Lastly, I highly doubt I'll end up marrying a niqaabi, but I'll definitely say that niqaabis are awesome. As for how brothers see them, then I've seen three different views. One group doesn't mind and would actually prefer it, second believes its too conservative and don't think its necessary, a hijaab/jilbaab/modest clothing is sufficient, and a third group which are impartial, they leave it up to the sister, if she wears it, cool, if she doesn't thats cool too. I tend to think it's a bit conservative, but I don't mind it, hijaab/jilbaab is awesome, but at the end of the day, it's up to the sister.

[AntiKarateKid]

I wouldn't go for either. The former I have no clue what she looks like and regardless of personality, the Prophet pbuh advised that men should find their wives attractive. The latter I wouldnt touch either. Sure its real tempting to get with her. But she obviously has no self respect. Why should I carry that into a marriage?

I'll go for the regular hijabi or regular practicing non hijabi.

[syilla]

Assallamualaikum sis,

I think it depends on the kind of boys they are...lol. If we are surrounded with 'aalim' boys...i'm sure they would want the head to toe cover up. if we are surrounded with the normal kind of boys...they are sure would like normal girls lol... i've known someone who actually will take the chance to give comments in every clothing his wife is wearing. eventhough she is actually properly wearing islamic dress abayaas and long jilbab. but..he will tell her to wear something more loose and etc. and the wife actually love it because the husband seems really care about her awrah. Oh well..might be they are newly married...lol.

But to those who really observe about their awrah...and will not take the chance even the tiny exposure, they will really appreciate the ninja thing. because in islam...the women and ladies are been carefully taken care of like gems.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Now I know, I mean it's obvious that gurlz who don't cover themselves are more attractive buh on a serious note, who would you as a guy go for and why?

just rereading this, sis the niqaab is a part of Islam, no matter what some twit may tell you.

not wanting a niqaabi wife is something, but if a guy doesn't want a niqabi wife becuase he doesn't acknowledge it is from the sunnah, or it is too much of a shame to be seen with a wife who covers her face (pure idiot that guy is), or as you said he thinks its extreme, tell him to walk!

the thing is, it isn't about not wanting a niqaabi wife per se, but rather that he sees a legitimate part of the sunnah to be unacceptable/extreme. that's worrisome.

Overall full covering is much more attractive to a man as it gives him the opportunity to really see who she is. The lack of clothing is the real disguise that hides the true woman.

not to mention, it tends to stem from self esteem issues that anti Islamic (fails to think of a better word) twits should address rather then propagate that she ought to flirt, etc with men to make her feel independent.

[Abdul Wahid]

:sl:

Personally I'd go for the ninja sister all the way. One who doesn't cover herself I wouldn't even look at. Obviously looks are important but a women of piety, taqwa and character are ahead of looks when I go hunting for a wife.

Also I'd consider a sister who wears jilbab but personally I admire sisters who don the niqaab. Amazing.

Majority of the brothers I know who are much older than me have wife's that are niqaabs. However I wouldn't force my wife to wear a niqaab. I'd be content if she wore the hijab/jilbab as long as she is modest.

I don't find sisters who don't cover themselves attractive. That's all I'll say on this matter.

[S_87]

I wouldn't go for either. The former I have no clue what she looks like and regardless of personality, the Prophet pbuh advised that men should find their wives attractive. The latter I wouldnt touch either. Sure its real tempting to get with her. But she obviously has no self respect. Why should I carry that into a marriage?

you do know its ok to show the face before marriage for the very reason you have mentioned dont you....so you WOULD know what she looks like...

[Cabdullahi]

you do know its ok to show the face before marriage for the very reason you have mentioned dont you....so you WOULD know what she looks like...

but they're ninjas and ninjas dont reveal their identities

[manaal]

just rereading this, sis the niqaab is a part of Islam, no matter what some twit may tell you.

not wanting a niqaabi wife is something, but if a guy doesn't want a niqabi wife becuase he doesn't acknowledge it is from the sunnah, or it is too much of a shame to be seen with a wife who covers her face (pure idiot that guy is), or as you said he thinks its extreme, tell him to walk!

the thing is, it isn't about not wanting a niqaabi wife per se, but rather that he sees a legitimate part of the sunnah to be unacceptable/extreme. that's worrisome.


not to mention, it tends to stem from self esteem issues that anti Islamic (fails to think of a better word) twits should address rather then propagate that she ought to flirt, etc with men to make her feel independent.

a woman will be rewarded for wearing a niqaab, but a woman who does not will not be punished. Not wearing Niqaab is not a sin. It's sunnah that we would observe if we wish. No one can force a woman to wear a niqaab. Whole body covered, with only face and hands exposed is 100% acceptable by the sunnah and Qura'n.
--

On a different note, it's nice to see all these brothers preferring a covered woman. Alhamdulillah, we interact with such pious brothers on this forum.
Alhamdlillah my husband too said he liked me because I was a hijaabi. There are also men who have married non-hijab wearing girls and got them to start wearing one after marriage.

But on the other side, I also know for a fact that in South Asian countries, there are Muslim men who prefer a wife who does not wear hijaab! It's such sad situation. I know of girls who don't cover fearing that they will not be able find a husband. I know of women who have abandoned their hijaabs for marriage! They are stupid, stupid, STUPID!

[piXie]

:sl:

My brother said there is a beauty in the veil which you do not see in those women who do not wear it.

There is a grace and mystery about the woman in a veil, and a curiosity about who she is. There is a rare aura around her, which is not around other women, even though they may be modestly dressed. Her confidence, courage, strength of character and Identity cannot be compared. She is rare. You sense an invisible protection and barrier around her, and no man dare speak to her without permission - or dare mess with her. You are only left with admiration and inspiration.

That is why the western men are threatened by the veiled woman especially. Because she aims for the highest levels of obedience to Allaah, despite the practice of the society she lives in. She is a woman of substance. And a woman of substance produces children of substance - who leave behind legacies like Salah hud deen.

[Vigno]

But on the other side, I also know for a fact that in South Asian countries, there are Muslim men who prefer a wife who does not wear hijaab! It's such sad situation. I know of girls who don't cover fearing that they will not be able find a husband. I know of women who have abandoned their hijaabs for marriage! They are stupid, stupid, STUPID!

Indeed indeed indeeeed!
As been mentioned earlier, women are gems, so the moment the man feels disrespectful of the wife, that's the same moment she is going to drop from his eyes.
I live in Asia and yes it's quite true that men go for non hijabiis and its super rare here to find a ninja(lol what a word to use for niqab!!!). Most are exposed, and that attracts most people here, some gaze because they are losers(excuse me for the word) and others look and then decide to go propose later ( bad decision according to me). As for me, I turn my eyes away and ask Allah to guide them if they are muslims but there is no chance I would even think of proposing to such women.

Self respect is a crucial aspect when it comes to marriage, pardon me for this but a woman who doesn't cover her precious parts is one who doesn't respect herself and thus gains no respect as a result.

And we wonder why the west is having no morals, respect has been and still is being demolished. Independence has proven to be their excuse for not being dressed and yet you find men marrying such women there.
I make a point of this, but please men, don't be offended, coz its a fact . A man who accepts to marry an exposed woman and is then happy with that and takes it as a normal thing, then that's no man. How could you accept your wife to be seen by everyone and not feel even a beat inside you, its really a shame.

A woman with hijab or niqab doesn't necessary have to be a good woman, and one without hijab can be good from inside but needs a guide to wear hijab( guide against herself and shaitan that is). However, till she finds that guide, she is still amongst the lost ones. So for me, well I already have someone am going to marry inshallah and she wears hijab and she wouldn't mind wearing niqab I think, but its fine with me if she stays with the hijab alone, and I don't mind if she wants to wear the niqab.
So yes I would say, a woman with hijab or niqab or ninja as you say is more attractive, more pure, more precious and deserve to be treated like a gem as that's what she is.

[S_87]

but they're ninjas and ninjas dont reveal their identities

for serious marriage prospects then yes it is done. it is a mans right to view a woman before marriage....

[IbnAbdulHakim]

for serious marriage prospects then yes it is done. it is a mans right to view a woman before marriage....

hair and all?

[S_87]

hair and all?

no not hair and all but enough to see if he is attracted to her...

[Danah]

There is a grace and mystery about the woman in a veil, and a curiosity about who she is. There is a rare aura around her, which is not around other women, even though they may be modestly dressed. Her confidence, courage, strength of character and Identity cannot be compared. She is rare. You sense an invisible protection and barrier around her, and no man dare speak to her without permission - or dare mess with her. You are only left with admiration and inspiration.

That is why the western men are threatened by the veiled woman especially. Because she aims for the highest levels of obedience to Allaah, despite the practice of the society she lives in. She is a woman of substance. And a woman of substance produces children of substance - who leave behind legacies like Salah hud deen.

Very nice wording!
I guess sisters who wear niqab while walking in streets full of men and non-hijabi girls know what sis Pixie means very well!!

[Cabdullahi]

hair and all?

you're asking too much son!....they'll put a machete to your neck and slowly slice away

[Vigno]

you're asking too much son!....they'll put a machete to your neck and slowly slice away

Lol yes I guess so too

[Caller الداعي]

veil for me !

[~Raindrop~]

You didn't mention the different types of Niqabis:

i. Fully covered, plain, loose abayah, decent niqab.

ii. 'covered', fitted, flashy, designer abayah. (who in their right mind can pay £400 for an abayah? :skeleton:) Oh, and the abayah plus niqab has all these gorgeous little beady diamondy things all over it too.
:heated:

iii. T-shirt and jeans, niqab. I even spotted a scarf-less one once.

On a more serious note...

May Allah SWT guide us all, and grant us the ability to act upon the true teachings of Islam

[Rhubarb Tart]

hair and all?

no! just the face!

[Cabdullahi]

no! just the face!

why whats wrong with the hair?



its a silly joke

[IbnAbdulHakim]

no not hair and all but enough to see if he is attracted to her...

yep thats what i thought




and thats more then enough for real

[Muhammad]

Assalaamu Alaykum,

Why are we, as Muslims, using terms like "ninja"? At least when discussing it amongst ourselves we should use correct terminology that is not derogatory towards our deen.

Niqab is something that is well established in Islam - scholars only differed as to whether it's recommended or obligatory. But no scholar said it is something alien to Islam (refer to the video below). Hence those people finding it too extreme or conservative should research this matter. Perhaps what it comes down to is a lack of eemaan or understanding of this issue. I see wearing the Niqab as a similar jihad to wearing the beard - they represent a great strength of character in such a deteriorating society, and we know that the more difficult it is to do a good deed the more reward there is from Allaah (swt).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZe44SX0EBo

[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

Muhammad :

The spirit of the thread reveals a lot about how Muslims think about Hijab, Niqab and non Hijab. It is human instinct to defend what they practice. The derogatory terms are a result of the Western conditioning which many Muslims usually don't purge from their psyche.

Even if one has moderate or liberal views in implementing Islam they acknowledge they are in a Islamic forum.

The armchair Muslim that imposes the extremist views on others why they don't impose it on themselves.

Using the Preview Post should be used everytime.

Surah Baqarah 2:44

44. Enjoin you Al-Birr (piety and righteousness and each and every act of obedience to Allâh) on the people and you forget (to practise it) yourselves, while you recite the Scripture [the Taurât (Torah)]! Have you then no sense? (Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan translation)

[أحمد]

:sl:

Assalaamu Alaykum,

Why are we, as Muslims, using terms like "ninja"? At least when discussing it amongst ourselves we should use correct terminology that is not derogatory towards our deen.

Niqab is something that is well established in Islam - scholars only differed as to whether it's recommended or obligatory. But no scholar said it is something alien to Islam (refer to the video below). Hence those people finding it too extreme or conservative should research this matter. Perhaps what it comes down to is a lack of eemaan or understanding of this issue. I see wearing the Niqab as a similar jihad to wearing the beard - they represent a great strength of character in such a deteriorating society, and we know that the more difficult it is to do a good deed the more reward there is from Allaah (swt).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZe44SX0EBo

Misuse of words isn't uncommon; it can be misleading or derogatory, but people don't always think before they do. And those who think; may not always be aware.

The word ninja is quite misleading even if not used as a derogatory term; not all niqabis are highly skilled in ninjutsu.

:wa:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

sabr said it

also, ninja isnt deemed an insult or derogatory in our minds


ALthough i personally never use it, nothing can replace the word Niqaabi, much cooler then "ninja" :)

[Alpha Dude]

Assalaamu Alaykum,
Why are we, as Muslims, using terms like "ninja"? At least when discussing it amongst ourselves we should use correct terminology that is not derogatory towards our deen.

Wa alaykum salam,

Thank you for the reminder, brother.

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

what if I were to counter question and say would you b put off by a decently groomed fist length beard

^No... Not at all... :)

What if I were to say would you be put off by a brother who has no beard but has a nice personality..

^No again... I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..

What people wear/might not wear don't justify what's on the inside...

@ OP: whats wrong with being a ninja :><: i dont know why people feel uneased about a sister covering her face...i think it looks wicked.

^Nothing wrong at all... Totally agree wiv you wiv the wicked part... It makes a woman feel secure... :)

not wanting a niqaabi wife is something, but if a guy doesn't want a niqabi wife becuase he doesn't acknowledge it is from the sunnah, or it is too much of a shame to be seen with a wife who covers her face (pure idiot that guy is), or as you said he thinks its extreme, tell him to walk!

the thing is, it isn't about not wanting a niqaabi wife per se, but rather that he sees a legitimate part of the sunnah to be unacceptable/extreme. that's worrisome.

^That's what I'm tryna say.. A dude might like a girl but jus cuz of the fact that she covers herself, he'd turn her away... Believe me they are people like this... What the hell are they playin at?? Or a girl might turn a guy down jus cuz he's got a beard... :raging: Yea, am tawkin bou Muslims here... Face reality, we're living in the 21st century & there are only a number of pious youth... Hell yeaaa it's worrisome and sad...

Alhamdulillah, we interact with such pious brothers on this forum.

^You can say that again... Allahumma zid fazid...

You didn't mention the different types of Niqabis:

i. Fully covered, plain, loose abayah, decent niqab.

ii. 'covered', fitted, flashy, designer abayah. (who in their right mind can pay £400 for an abayah? :skeleton:) Oh, and the abayah plus niqab has all these gorgeous little beady diamondy things all over it too.
:heated:

iii. T-shirt and jeans, niqab. I even spotted a scarf-less one once.

On a more serious note...

May Allah SWT guide us all, and grant us the ability to act upon the true teachings of Islam

^Sadly, some abayah jus beat the purpose of covering ones self...

Ameen at your dua!

:wa:

[Alpha Dude]

^No again... I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

Same.


Need at least a bit of something, Im not saying grow fist length (although you should), im saying if your weak - dont be clean shaven weak

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:

What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?

:wa:

[_Jannah_]

:w:

You have no ideas how Muslim guys operate do you? :skeleton: Let me break it down for you, at least the way I see it and the way that the brothers I know see it.

A girl that doesn't cover up, that doesn't at the very least wear Hijaab, be she Muslim or not, yeah she might look attractive and catch a guys attention, but no brother would seriously consider her anything more than someone that looks pretty in the sense of approaching her for marriage or something meaningful. I live in a place where if you walk down the street, you'll see beautiful women from all around the world and past the lowering the gaze aspect, I'm not attracted to them in a way that would make me want to go after them because there's no way that I'm going to marry someone that dresses that way. She might be a great person, great personality, caring, but I, personally speaking, won't be able get past the way she dresses, if it's immodest.

On the other hand, a sister that dresses modestly, jilbaab/hijaab or even niqaab, she's way more attractive than those women that hardly dress. Why? Because they're the ones that brothers can consider as a future wife and therefore turn out to be more fitnah in that sense than a girl that's wearing a mini-skirt - because at the end of the day this girl that's dressing awesomely modest, she might just end up being potential wife material.

Lastly, I highly doubt I'll end up marrying a niqaabi, but I'll definitely say that niqaabis are awesome. As for how brothers see them, then I've seen three different views. One group doesn't mind and would actually prefer it, second believes its too conservative and don't think its necessary, a hijaab/jilbaab/modest clothing is sufficient, and a third group which are impartial, they leave it up to the sister, if she wears it, cool, if she doesn't thats cool too. I tend to think it's a bit conservative, but I don't mind it, hijaab/jilbaab is awesome, but at the end of the day, it's up to the sister.

Why do you highly doubt that you would marry a niqaabi?

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:
^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:

What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?

Wa alaykum salam,

Yes. I do think so. :)

Not perfect, for one thing. There is a clearly deficiency in such a person iman wise. This doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou or judging such a person but when people don't desire to follow sunnah, then that's a definite negative attribute.

Think about it this way: Allah has made man khalif of the household. It is his duty to guide toward practising Islam fully and protecting the wife and kids from falling into deeni (and wordly) harm. The akhira is infintely more important than the dunya. If a muslimah is concerned for her hereafter, she should marry someone that has the same kind of concern. Somebody that doesn't desire to follow sunnah clearly does not meet this requirement. In all likelihood, he is going to be lax and under his khilafat things are not going to be completely Islamically run. He won't have the desire to stamp out fitnah.

Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.

For example, a guy that protects his wife (by forbidding her) from going out to meet her friends that regular partake in backbiting and gossiping over afternoon tea is 100% better than a guy who couldn't care less and gives his wife supposed 'freedom' (let's face it, a lot of sisters would think this guy is the answer to their dreams).

Firmness is a necessity in deen and it shouldn't be seen as backward/controlling behaviour.
He could be the best and kindest person and give you the world but if he can't help you get closer to Allah and his religion (even if it means by him being controlling and forcing out some bad habits you have), then what use is he?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:sl:



^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:

What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?

:wa:

i personally find those types insulting

islams not cool?

[Cabdullahi]

.,.............................

[tango92]

just two cents from me

beauty is not in the eye of the beholder. when Allah chooses he beautifies people to whomsoever he wills with his wisdom, ergo not keeping a beard/not wearing hjab is nothing but a lack of trust in Allah swt.

i say a lone muslim who abandones societal pressure is nothing short of a legend

[AntiKarateKid]

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

In my humble opinion (which may not be worth much)

this is a ludicrous statement. Do you have any idea how many guys have beards because their parents forced them? Or because they just wanted to avoid people making assumptions about their iman like you? Or just follow the crowd without any knowledge of its significance? All are for the wrong reasons.

Both these types are extremely prevalent and as common as the hijabi who wears it just because her parents wear it. There is absolutely no essential correlation between the level of iman one has and the way they choose to style the hair on their face. What gives you the right to assume otherwise? Go to any Muslim country and see the amount of beardies drinking alcohol, at the club, or even guess what? There are also those foolish terrorists in the mountains with HUGE beards

It is exactly these types of judgmental comments that make people shy away from Muslim gatherings because they don't fit physical standards. Do you seriously believe a beard is some sort of litmus test for iman?!

I never automatically assume a hijabi is more pious than a non hijabi because I don't know the intentions or context behind their actions. In a day and age where even saying Allah or praying shows courage, it is shocking to me how you could just ruin a guy's image infront a potential wife with your assumptions.

[ابن آل مرة]

I personally like when I see Muslim girls/women wear niqab. Some say its unnecessary and over-doing. But niqab lessens the fitnah in the society. And yes I would marry someone who wears niqab definitely.

[Salahudeen]

About the beard thing, it's haraam to take a razor and have a clean shave according to the 4 madhabs if I'm not mistaken, so a person who does this is sinful, he sins every morning by shaving his face. It's considered mutilation and comes under changing the natural creation of Allah (swt).

There is a difference of opinion over the length, but there is no difference of opinion that taking a razor and shaving the beard is haraam.

[~Raindrop~]

Both these types are extremely prevalent and as common as the hijabi who wears it just because her parents wear it. There is absolutely no essential correlation between the level of iman one has and the way they choose to style the hair on their face. What gives you the right to assume otherwise? Go to any Muslim country and see the amount of beardies drinking alcohol, at the club, or even guess what? Being those foolish terrorists in the mountains.

It wasn't apparent that the brother was making assumptions. Having a beard does show that a Muslim brother is acting upon a very important Sunnah. We can only look at what is apparent, not at what's in the hearts. So, if a Muslim man has a full beard, it would be safe to say he's Deen-conscious.
What does the beard have to do with people sinning?? Now, I may be wrong, but I always assumed that the beard isn't responsible for sins. It's the person.
Having a beard doesn't make these acceptable in any way, nor can we say that bearded people are always the baddies.

It's like one of the guys in our village back home who was coming down a hill on his bike, which had no brakes. There were a couple of ladies at the bottom and although he called out a warning, he ended up crashing into them. One of them said: 'Have you no shame? Look at the size of your beard and you do this?!'
To which he replied: 'I'm sorry, it didn't come supplied with brakes'.

It's foolish to claim that since bearded people commit sins, it's not a very good thing after all. And no, I'm not saying you claimed that. It's an excuse I've heard many times, which is frankly, sickening.

[AntiKarateKid]

Wa alaykum salam,

Yes. I do think so. :)

Not perfect, for one thing. There is a clearly deficiency in such a person iman wise. This doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou or judging such a person but when people don't desire to follow sunnah, then that's a definite negative attribute.

Think about it this way: Allah has made man khalif of the household. It is his duty to guide toward practising Islam fully and protecting the wife and kids from falling into deeni (and wordly) harm. The akhira is infintely more important than the hereafter. If a muslimah is concerned for her hereafter, she should marry someone that has the same kind of concern. Somebody that doesn't desire to follow sunnah clearly does not meet this requirement. In all likelihood, he is going to be lax and under his khilafat things are not going to be completely Islamically run. He won't have the desire to stamp out fitnah.

Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.

For example, a guy that protects his wife (by forbidding her) from going out to meet her friends that regular partake in backbiting and gossiping over afternoon tea is 100% better than a guy who couldn't care less and gives his wife supposed 'freedom' (let's face it, a lot of sisters would think this guy is the answer to their dreams).

Firmness is a necessity in deen and it shouldn't be seen as backward/controlling behaviour.
He could be the best and kindest person and give you the world but if he can't help you get closer to Allah and his religion (even if it means by him being controlling and forcing out some bad habits you have), then what use is he?

I've seen plenty of clean shaven bros have wonderful Islamic marriages and plenty of bearded ones turn out to be basket cases and terrible for the wife.

[Cabdullahi]

.......................

[Salahudeen]

Yes people expect a person with a beard or hijaab on to be sinless, and if you do a sin they say "you have a beard and you done that" as if growing a beard makes you sinless this frustrates me when people have this attitude, "OH I WANNA BE A PERFECT MUSLIM BEFORE I GROW A BEARD OR WEAR HIJAAB"

[Rhubarb Tart]

Wa alaykum salam,

Yes. I do think so. :)

Not perfect, for one thing. There is a clearly deficiency in such a person iman wise. This doesn't mean I'm being holier than thou or judging such a person but when people don't desire to follow sunnah, then that's a definite negative attribute.

Think about it this way: Allah has made man khalif of the household. It is his duty to guide toward practising Islam fully and protecting the wife and kids from falling into deeni (and wordly) harm. The akhira is infintely more important than the hereafter. If a muslimah is concerned for her hereafter, she should marry someone that has the same kind of concern. Somebody that doesn't desire to follow sunnah clearly does not meet this requirement. In all likelihood, he is going to be lax and under his khilafat things are not going to be completely Islamically run. He won't have the desire to stamp out fitnah.

Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.

For example, a guy that protects his wife (by forbidding her) from going out to meet her friends that regular partake in backbiting and gossiping over afternoon tea is 100% better than a guy who couldn't care less and gives his wife supposed 'freedom' (let's face it, a lot of sisters would think this guy is the answer to their dreams).

Firmness is a necessity in deen and it shouldn't be seen as backward/controlling behaviour.
He could be the best and kindest person and give you the world but if he can't help you get closer to Allah and his religion (even if it means by him being controlling and forcing out some bad habits you have), then what use is he?

:sl:

Muslim men are meant to be romantic. The prophet peace be upon him was..
He wasn’t “harsh” in his teaching or the way he treated his wives. I rather marry a breadless brother than a dictator. Anyway who would want their wives to secretly resent them? There is a huge difference between treating the wife kindly and advising her kindly from treating like she is your daughter. The husband meant to be the wife companion, not her father. Romance is absolutely essential..


I may have misunderstood you, but you write a daughter and father relationship instead husband and wife?

[Alpha Dude]

In my humble opinion (which may not be worth much)

this is a ludicrous statement. Do you have any idea how many guys have beards because their parents forced them? Or because they just wanted to avoid people making assumptions about their iman like you? Or just follow the crowd without any knowledge of its significance? All are for the wrong reasons.

Both these types are extremely prevalent and as common as the hijabi who wears it just because her parents wear it. There is absolutely no essential correlation between the level of iman one has and the way they choose to style the hair on their face. What gives you the right to assume otherwise? Go to any Muslim country and see the amount of beardies drinking alcohol, at the club, or even guess what? There are also those foolish terrorists in the mountains with HUGE beards

It is exactly these types of judgmental comments that make people shy away from Muslim gatherings because they don't fit physical standards. Do you seriously believe a beard is some sort of litmus test for iman?!

I never automatically assume a hijabi is more pious than a non hijabi because I don't know the intentions or context behind their actions. In a day and age where even saying Allah or praying shows courage, it is shocking to me how you could just ruin a guy's image infront a potential wife with your assumptions.

Good thing you said your opinion is not worth much here, brother. You're right. Why? You've misunderstood and misrepresented what I meant. Go back and read it again. Did I say having beard is the be all and end all of what constitutes iman?

Did I suggest the sister look for someone that lacks ilm, taqwa and understanding of the deen but go for the one that has beard alone? No. That would be absurd.

I said, if a guy doesn't have beard specifically for the following reasons: "due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything".

We all know beard is an essential part of Islam as is donning hijab. There's a difference if someone doesn't wear these for perfectly acceptable reasons: e.g. fear of attack/discrimination or maybe even prohibited by parents if they're young, even if they don't wear it at the present time and plan to later on, I wouldn't mind that, as long as they don't go on to say it is worthless and pointless. That IS wrong and such a person is contemptable. No question about it.

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

Muslim men are meant to be romantic. The prophet peace be upon him was..
He wasn’t “harsh” in his teaching or the way he treated his wives. I rather marry a breadless brother than a dictator. Anyway who would want their wives to secretly resent them? There is a huge difference between treating the wife kindly and advising her kindly from treating like she is your daughter. The husband meant to be the wife companion, not her father. Romance is absolutely essential..


I may have misunderstood you, but you write a daughter and father relationship instead husband and wife?

Romance in and of itself is good. I support that. Love and mercy is a necessity, without doubt.

Being harsh does not necessarily mean being without wisdom. You don't need to go guns blazing and beat the crap out of your wife to get her to understand something. There are ways of talking to people. Even in firmness, you can display mercy. They might not like what you say at first and find it a bitter pill to swallow but in the end they are likely to come round if you show them the incorrectness in their approach. Once they understand where they have erred, they will even appreciate you.

However, I disagree with the airy fairy westernised media/trashy novel advertised notion of 'romance' and 'love' that most teen girls (and guys) grow up on.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Romance in and of itself is good. I support that. Love and mercy is a necessity, without doubt.

Being harsh does not necessarily mean being without wisdom. You don't need to go guns blazing and beat the crap out of your wife to get her to understand something. There are ways of talking to people. Even in firmness, you can display mercy. They might not like what you say at first and find it a bitter pill to swallow but in the end they are likely to come round if you show them the incorrectness in their approach. Once they understand where they have erred, they will even appreciate you.

However, I disagree with the airy fairy westernised media/trashy novel advertised notion of 'romance' and 'love' that most teen girls (and guys) grow up on.

So basically the husband should advise the wife which I agree.

What do you mean by media novel notion of romance?

[Cabdullahi]

So basically the husband should advise the wife which I agree.

What do you mean by media novel notion of romance?

like the twilight saga that has emasculated the youth

[Alpha Dude]

So basically the husband should advise the wife which I agree.

It is his Allah imposed duty to do so.

The typical romeo/prince charming stereotype. The guy that is sooo 'kind/caring' because he bends to his wife's every desire out of supposed love and lets her walk over him.

[Rhubarb Tart]

like the twilight saga

I haven't read or watch that. I have no idea what that is about? :?

[Cabdullahi]

I haven't read or watch that. I have no idea what that is about? :?

Alhamdulilah!

[~Raindrop~]

Sis...just think excessive, waaayyyyyy exaggerated love, soppiness and everything else in between. +o(

I wouldn't go near them.

[cat eyes]

I've seen plenty of clean shaven bros have wonderful Islamic marriages and plenty of bearded ones turn out to be basket cases and terrible for the wife.

thats not true and if it is it will be rare.. btw it don't give you a right to judge people who have a beard or a woman who wears the hijab.

i hope your not implying about modestly dressed muslim women also

[Rhubarb Tart]

It is his Allah imposed duty to do so.

The typical romeo/prince charming stereotype. The guy that is sooo 'kind/caring' because he bends to his wife's every desire out of supposed love and lets her walk over him.

lol Romeo/prince charming type which I have read is a love story not whole lifetime marriage story. Do you mean those type that let their wives go out with friends all the time and let their wives speak to them in bad manner all the time?

[Cabdullahi]

..................................................

[Cabdullahi]

.................................................. ..

[Muhammad]

There is absolutely no essential correlation between the level of iman one has and the way they choose to style the hair on their face.

This is not true - eemaan is not something limited to one's heart, rather it is also expressed by means of utterance of the tongue and actions of the limbs. Therefore, the actions of a person can give some indication about their eemaan, even an action like letting facial hair grow. However, as we all seem to agree, we must be cautious here because the assumption could be true and in the person's favour, or be wrong because the person might be lacking a great deal.

On the other hand, if there is no action, there is most likely no assumption in that person's favour to begin with.

Perhaps people assume bearded brothers are more God-conscious and do not indulge in bad behaviour as much as others because they have seen something associated with God-consciousness and therefore assume accordingly.

Allaah (swt) knows best.

[AntiKarateKid]

[B]

thats not true and if it is it will be rare.. btw it don't give you a right to judge people who have a beard or a woman who wears the hijab.

i hope your not implying about modestly dressed muslim women also[/B]

If you don't think it's true, pay a visit to any majority Muslim country. And about judgement, if you took the time to read my previous post, I said the same thing you said. You can't judge a person based on a beard or hijab or lack thereof which I feel is what bro Bedouin did.

What is the part I have highlighted even mean and what does it have to do with what I said?

[AntiKarateKid]

This is not true - eemaan is not something limited to one's heart, rather it is also expressed by means of utterance of the tongue and actions of the limbs. Therefore, the actions of a person can give some indication about their eemaan, even an action like letting facial hair grow. However, as we all seem to agree, we must be cautious here because the assumption could be true and in the person's favour, or be wrong because the person might be lacking a great deal.

On the other hand, if there is no action, there is most likely no assumption in that person's favour to begin with.

Perhaps people assume bearded brothers are more God-conscious and do not indulge in bad behaviour as much as others because they have seen something associated with God-consciousness and therefore assume accordingly.

Allaah (swt) knows best.

No one is saying Iman is limited to the heart. I am plainly saying that beards are a bad litmus test for it. Like I have repeated before, take the Muslim world for example. Almost everyone has a beard, yet how good of a test is the beard for character?

A more reliable way or discerning Iman, as if that was our job in the first place, is if the bro prays five times a day, refrains from cursing, does charity etc etc. My point is that having a beard by virtue of it being so easily acquired without effort on the part of the individual is a BAD test of iman. People imitate other people, people wear stuff to fit in, because their parents told them to, etc etc.

[AntiKarateKid]

Good thing you said your opinion is not worth much here, brother. You're right. Why? You've misunderstood and misrepresented what I meant. Go back and read it again. Did I say having beard is the be all and end all of what constitutes iman?

Did I suggest the sister look for someone that lacks ilm, taqwa and understanding of the deen but go for the one that has beard alone? No. That would be absurd.

I said, if a guy doesn't have beard specifically for the following reasons: "due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything".

Let me refresh your memory since the order of your posts disagrees with you. Regardless if what you said is actually what you felt, then you might want to organize your posts better for clarity.

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

This was NOT your response to the conditions you just mentioned. You said that in response to this:

^No again... I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..

A guy whos perfect in everyway but you'd advise against him because of the beard :?

We all know beard is an essential part of Islam as is donning hijab. There's a difference if someone doesn't wear these for perfectly acceptable reasons: e.g. fear of attack/discrimination or maybe even prohibited by parents if they're young, even if they don't wear it at the present time and plan to later on, I wouldn't mind that, as long as they don't go on to say it is worthless and pointless. That IS wrong and such a person is contemptable. No question about it.

No one said it was worthless. I said a lack thereof is not an OK reason to dismiss an otherwise perfectly fine suitor.

My response is in red.

[cat eyes]

If you don't think it's true, pay a visit to any majority Muslim country. And about judgement, if you took the time to read my previous post, I said the same thing you said. You can't judge a person based on a beard or hijab or lack thereof which I feel is what bro Bedouin did.

What is the part I have highlighted even mean and what does it have to do with what I said?

majority of muslims countries? which ones.. where are you hearing all this from brother if you don't mind me asking?

I Just thought if you feel so strongly about muslims having a beard i hope you don't think anything bad about sisters dressing islamically that is all. :><:

Ramadhan kareem:peace:

[Alpha Dude]

You can't judge a person based on a beard or hijab or lack thereof which I feel is what bro Bedouin did.

Bro, did you read my post in response to you? Your assumption is false. This is not what I meant. Put simply: beard is wajib (sinful if left) and praisworthy if kept. So if somebody attaches no virtue to keeping a beard, holds it to be pointless, then that is wrong behaviour (obviously because he is i. denying the correct Islamic position and ii. undermining the importance of sunnah) and I wouldn't recommend him to any sister who wants a strong muslim husband (since it would be his job to guide her - how would he do that if he himself is on shaky grounds?).

In saying that, if somebody is clean shaven yet does hold that the beard is important and that he would be sinful if he left it, then who can fault him? As long he doesn't rubbish it and knows that he is in the wrong to shave and hopes to one day at least let it grow.

So the question becomes, who is better for the God conscious sister that wants to gain Allah's pleasure out of these three options?

Option a: The brother that attaches importance to sunnah and has a beard (let's not talk about all the other stuff e.g. good character/taqwa etc, assume that is a given in all options, for the sake of argument. I.e. assume that all 3 of these hypothetical brothers have these good attributes).

Option b: The brother that attaches no significance to sunnah and has not beard and doesn't intend to.

Option c: The brother that does attach significance to sunnah but for some reason is unable to keep it at the present time (could be for any reason).

It's obvious that Option a is the best choice for such a sister. Then Option c. Option b ought to be disregarded completely.

Note: My initial post that you picked on had a context. It wasn't just a 'beard ftw' rant. The context was that the sister asked about there being a hypothetical 'perfect' guy who doesn't have a beard. I answered such a person couldn't possibly be perfect on the condition that he held something wajib (i.e. sinful if neglected) to be useless/not needed.

[AntiKarateKid]

majority of muslims countries? which ones.. where are you hearing all this from brother if you don't mind me asking?

I Just thought if you feel so strongly about muslims having a beard i hope you don't think anything bad about sisters dressing islamically that is all. :><:



Ramadhan kareem:peace:

I dont mind you asking. I am saying that in countries with mostly Muslim populations, most people have beards. Yet many people there still commit crimes or have problems just like the rest of us. You can't tell a single thing about their iman by looking at the beard. You have to look at actions. The same goes for young bros with beards. How do you know their parents arent forcing them to wear it? Look for a better indicator like praying 5 times a day and charity etc etc

[AntiKarateKid]

Bro, did you read my post in response to you? Your assumption is false. This is not what I meant. Put simply: beard is wajib (sinful if left) and praisworthy if kept. So if somebody attaches no virtue to keeping a beard, holds it to be pointless, then that is wrong behaviour (obviously because he is i. denying the correct Islamic position and ii. undermining the importance of sunnah) and I wouldn't recommend him to any sister who wants a strong muslim husband (since it would be his job to guide her - how would he do that if he himself is on shaky grounds?).

In saying that, if somebody is clean shaven yet does hold that the beard is important and that he would be sinful if he left it, then who can fault him? As long he doesn't rubbish it and knows that he is in the wrong to shave and hopes to one day at least let it grow.

So the question becomes, who is better for the God conscious sister that wants to gain Allah's pleasure out of these three options?

Option a: The brother that attaches importance to sunnah and has a beard (let's not talk about all the other stuff e.g. good character/taqwa etc, assume that is a given in all options, for the sake of argument. I.e. assume that all 3 of these hypothetical brothers have these good attributes).

Option b: The brother that attaches no significance to sunnah and has not beard and doesn't intend to.

Option c: The brother that does attach significance to sunnah but for some reason is unable to keep it at the present time (could be for any reason).

It's obvious that Option a is the best choice for such a sister. Then Option c. Option b ought to be disregarded completely.

Note: My initial post that you picked on had a context. It wasn't just a 'beard ftw' rant. The context was that the sister asked about there being a hypothetical 'perfect' guy who doesn't have a beard. I answered such a person couldn't possibly be perfect on the condition that he held something wajib (i.e. sinful if neglected) to be useless/not needed.

OR option D: The brother who has a beard and yet does not know as much about Islam/ or pray as much/ etc as option C.

It would be difficult indeed to differentiate B and C and decide who is better since everyone has unique circumstances.

Now my point was that, from reading the post that you responded to initially and your subsequent response, a beard should be at the bottom of the list underneath praying ontime, good manners, knowledge about Islam, all of which would be better indicators of a good suitor than a beard.

What is the point of the beard if it doesn't have an effect on manners and actions? Sunna it is and a good thing to have, you need to judge by what it's supposed to create in the person.

[Rhubarb Tart]

:sl:


I think all of you are confusing each other. It’s Ramadan!
When the brother says Muslim countries, he means men who do have beard just for sake of having it (due to their environment or to deceive people), whilst are aggressive, violent, thugs and drink alcohol or those with bread who are selfish, rich and arrogant. All of which does exist.

And please do think of the brothers that can’t have a beard due to genetic or medical reasons. Hence: I wouldn’t turn down the brother without a beard. I would ask him whether he would grow one or why he can’t. So in actual fact, you can’t quickly assume brother without beard are low in their iman or are bad person when they may not have one for valid reasons.

[cat eyes]

I dont mind you asking. I am saying that in countries with mostly Muslim populations, most people have beards. Yet many people there still commit crimes or have problems just like the rest of us. You can't tell a single thing about their iman by looking at the beard. You have to look at actions. The same goes for young bros with beards. How do you know their parents arent forcing them to wear it? Look for a better indicator like praying 5 times a day and charity etc etc

i agree with you yeh but at the same time you can't be suspicious and wondering about whether there doing there 5times pray and giving to charity etc etc

when i see a brother with a beard, i always say mashallah because i really admire it and i don't feel this way about clean shaven men because over here id always see them dating non muslim women and going to clubs an all sorts.

of course i kno there not all like that but you won't find a muslim with a beard in a club drinking alcohol with his mates and eying up all the girls:muddlehea

[Alpha Dude]

OR option D: The brother who has a beard and yet does not know as much about Islam/ or pray as much/ etc as option C.

It would be difficult indeed to differentiate B and C and decide who is better since everyone has unique circumstances.

Now my point was that, from reading the post that you responded to initially and your subsequent response, a beard should be at the bottom of the list underneath praying ontime, good manners, knowledge about Islam, all of which would be better indicators of a good suitor than a beard.

Are you feeling okay? B is a loser of a muslim. Nobody can deny something that is wajib and still be considered 'good'.

What is the point of the beard if it doesn't have an effect on manners and actions? Sunna it is and a good thing to have, you need to judge by what it's supposed to create in the person.

Now THIS is a ludicrous thing to say. First go learn what sunnah means and why it is important. Any act of sunnah, not just beard.

Why do you have acts within wudhu that are not considered wajib/fard and only sunnah? Why do them? Come to think of it, how does wudhu by itself make a person better or reciting Arabic words. :exhausted

Anyway, regarding post order. Why are you making this so hard?

Let's go through it step by step then, shall we.

Crazylady:

^No again... I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..

Bedouin (I've bolded the relevant bit):

Each has their own criteria but someone not keeping a sunnah beard (which is actually near compulsory) due to thinking it is not necessary/not from the deen/not worth anything means this person is far from being perfect. I wouldn't recommend such a person for marriage to a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah.

AntiKarateKid quoting my above post ^:

In my humble opinion (which may not be worth much)

this is a ludicrous statement. Do you have any idea how many guys have beards because their parents forced them? Or because they just wanted to avoid people making assumptions about their iman like you? Or just follow the crowd without any knowledge of its significance? All are for the wrong reasons.

Both these types are extremely prevalent and as common as the hijabi who wears it just because her parents wear it. There is absolutely no essential correlation between the level of iman one has and the way they choose to style the hair on their face. What gives you the right to assume otherwise? Go to any Muslim country and see the amount of beardies drinking alcohol, at the club, or even guess what? There are also those foolish terrorists in the mountains with HUGE beards

It is exactly these types of judgmental comments that make people shy away from Muslim gatherings because they don't fit physical standards. Do you seriously believe a beard is some sort of litmus test for iman?!

I never automatically assume a hijabi is more pious than a non hijabi because I don't know the intentions or context behind their actions. In a day and age where even saying Allah or praying shows courage, it is shocking to me how you could just ruin a guy's image infront a potential wife with your assumptions.

Now understand that is you that has misunderstood and my post is not 'disorganised'.

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

I think all of you are confusing each other. It’s Ramadan!
When the brother says Muslim countries, he means men who do have beard just for sake of having it (due to their environment or to deceive people), whilst are aggressive, violent, thugs and drink alcohol or those with bread who are selfish, rich and arrogant. All of which does exist.

And please do think of the brothers that can’t have a beard due to genetic or medical reasons. Hence: I wouldn’t turn down the brother without a beard. I would ask him whether he would grow one or why he can’t. So in actual fact, you can’t quickly assume brother without beard are low in their iman or are bad person when they may not have one for valid reasons.

Why are you guys being so silly?

Nobody here is suggesting that we look down upon those that don't have beard! It is when they classify keeping the beard as unimportant and worthless that we deem unacceptable.

[~Raindrop~]

Bedouin, you can shout that out till you're blue in the face, but I have a feeling it'll still be misunderstood.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Why are you guys being so silly?

Nobody here is suggesting that we look down upon those that don't have beard! It is when they classify keeping the beard as unimportant and worthless that we deem unacceptable.

Okay


I was talking in general, not specifically towards anyone. I shall stay out of this.
:hiding:

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Meh.. I didn't fink it'd get this heated.. :hiding: thanks for the laugh though.. xD

Bedouin, you can shout that out till you're blue in the face, but I have a feeling it'll still be misunderstood.

^LOL

:wa:

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

Ramadan kareem.

It is better this debate didn't go on. It's pointless. Sorry if anyone was offended by my words.

Wassalaam

[tango92]

has there ever been a discussion thread that didnt turn into a fight?

[Rhubarb Tart]

I think the shaytan is playing with all us.

[Salahudeen]

Bedouin is right, he is talking about a person who says

"a beard is not wajib/irrelevent/not important. and I'm not sinful if I shave it off"

because he is doing something haraam and denying it, he's legislating for himself what to follow, he's made himself the authority and not the statements of the rasool (saw). This is a big sin to legislate for yourself what is apart of the deen and what isn't.

For example, all though they're not on the same level but I'm using it to put a point across.

If a person drank alcohol and denied it was haraam would you class him as a good person? obviously not

what about a person who drinks alcohol and says this is haraam what i'm doing it's a sin I'm trying to stop it but I find it hard then this person is better then the first because he acknowledged he's doing haraam and needs to change because he's disobeying Allah. But the first person makes his own law and says I'm doing nothing wrong and denies he is disobeying Allah.

This is what the brother meant when he mentioned a person who denies the beard is waajib and there's nothing wrong with shaving it. He's doing a sin but doesn't recognise it as a sin he thinks there's nothing wrong with it so he carries on doing it even though people tell him it's haraam.

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

I think the shaytan is playing with all us.

^Can't be shaitaan.. they be locked up remember? :p it's our nafs :)

thread should be locked before it goes more off topic! -.-

:wa:

[Cabdullahi]

.................................................. ......................

[Salahudeen]

^mine too.......... brother bedouin was just miss understood. But what he's saying is correct. That a person who denies something wajib is not a good person because he's legislating for himself and not following the law of allah and the commandments of the prophet (saw) with regard to the thing he is denying as wajib.

This is different from a person shaving and acknowledging he is deficient in this area and needs to work on it because he is not putting his own opinion over Allah and his rasool (saw). He holds his hands up says "what i'm doing is haraam I need to stop doing it" but the other person denies what he's doing as haraam and this is big NO NO

[Abdul Wahid]

:sl:

Sister Crazy_Lady what have you started. Lol. Your making everyone crazy.

Love to contribute but its time for Suhoor. Probably after Fazr if the MODS ain't locked the thread.

By the way I'm in agreement with brother Bedouin.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.

:sl:

Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you, even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc. If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii) the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I think the argument about the beard is way off..and I tend to agree more with Br AntiKarateKid - a beard doesn't make a marriage (which is what we were discussing in the first place) and therefore doesn't really need to discussed at length in my humble opinion. I think it is subjective at the end of the day, Allah will judge the individual - did he willingly defy the sunnah or did he just have trouble with this one aspect of the sunnah. Essentially, it's not a big deal to me.

Lastly, we need to move past these arguments/discussions that are irrelevant and unnecessary and at the end of the provide no benefit - our communities have way more serious problems that need to dealt with than the growing of beards. Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc - those are what we should be focusing on because those are very serious societal problems that are plaguing OUR community and the practicing people in the society have a duty to address those issues - not get caught up in discussions that are essentially at this point in time, non-issues. Let's focus on what matters.

Please, if you're reading this and have the time to listen, then listen to the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LumwYGp729w
http://vimeo.com/11257397
http://vimeo.com/11428511

[AntiKarateKid]

:sl:

Ramadan kareem.

It is better this debate didn't go on. It's pointless. Sorry if anyone was offended by my words.

Wassalaam

Naw I'm not offended. Oh and whoops I meant A and C. B sucks. But whatever I think I made my point. I'll give in and say I misunderstood what you said in that post. Though I still stand by my other views about the beard.:peace:

[أحمد]

:sl:

:sl:

Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you, even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc. If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii) the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.

Akhlaq of a person is very important; as stated in a hadith of Rasoolullah :saws1:

إنما بعثت لأتمم مكارم الأخلاق

Rough translation: "I have been sent to perfect morals".

:wa:

[Ummu Sufyaan]

:sl:

a woman will be rewarded for wearing a niqaab, but a woman who does not will not be punished. Not wearing Niqaab is not a sin. It's sunnah that we would observe if we wish. No one can force a woman to wear a niqaab. Whole body covered, with only face and hands exposed is 100% acceptable by the sunnah and Qura'n.
--

*Ummu Sufyaan chooses not to quarrel*

:sl:

^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:

What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?

i'd say may Allah guide that guy.

the thing is, its not about leaving/practicing a sunnah based on what people say and do. imo, iman does equal character and not having that beard because people say its cool not to, then there is something not there.

not wearing your hijab or niqaab (yes, despite the fact that there is differences of opinion as to whether the niqaab is obligatory) because you think it isnt cool or that everyone else isn't, there is something not right.

scholarly differences is not the issue here. the fact of the matter is, is that that person is not holding on to the sunnah as they should be, because everyone else disagree's with it.. in this respect, iman equals character.

now the argument is raised, "wait a min, you have hijaabis who are all over guys" or "bearded bro's beat up their wives and mistreat their wives so how can iman equal character?"

you can tell between the pious person and the not so pious person, despite what they have on their heads or over their faces or how hairy their faces are. (btw, this explanation is merely for selecting a spouse, so im not advertising for people to go around and judge others).

how? birds of a feather flock together. when you see everyone doing to same thing, and there is that one person who is different, you know something is different (right or wrong) about them.

you see a sister with a hijab, but she doesn't talk to guys whereas the rest of the hijaabis do, she is different. you see a brother with a beard who doesn't beat up his wife, whereas all the other bearded brothers do, there is something different and so on.

why are the different and who do they act differently from everyone else? because they understand the deen how its meant to be understood and they dont care who or what says whatever they say (may Allah make us among)

if you are following the same doctrine (whatever it maybe), chances are you going to be acting the same.

you can almost compare it to family. siblings look/act alike, because they inherit the same genes from their parents.

these people who go against the norm, they have a different insight, they have different knowledge...they know something different then what the rest of us know...they follow a different "set of rules" from the rest of us who are all doing and acting the same. yes even if they appear to be good on the outside you can still tell what their true character is. you can tell straight away the difference between a aalim and a laymen. just get them to debate.

with regards to marriage, its just a matter of reading between the lines.

so yes, just to emphasize: this is just for the purposes of selecting a spouse, so im not advertising for people to go around and judge others and i don't know whats in the hearts of people.

[ابن آل مرة]

Thread should be closed, we can leave these arguments for ba3d Ramadan inshaAllah.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Think about it this way: Allah has made man khalif of the household. It is his duty to guide toward practising Islam fully and protecting the wife and kids from falling into deeni (and wordly) harm. The akhira is infintely more important than the dunya. If a muslimah is concerned for her hereafter, she should marry someone that has the same kind of concern. Somebody that doesn't desire to follow sunnah clearly does not meet this requirement. In all likelihood, he is going to be lax and under his khilafat things are not going to be completely Islamically run. He won't have the desire to stamp out fitnah.
Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.

For example, a guy that protects his wife (by forbidding her) from going out to meet her friends that regular partake in backbiting and gossiping over afternoon tea is 100% better than a guy who couldn't care less and gives his wife supposed 'freedom' (let's face it, a lot of sisters would think this guy is the answer to their dreams).

Firmness is a necessity in deen and it shouldn't be seen as backward/controlling behaviour.
He could be the best and kindest person and give you the world but if he can't help you get closer to Allah and his religion (even if it means by him being controlling and forcing out some bad habits you have), then what use is he?

and you can’t half tell, that some men use the exact same excuse against their wives with ill intent.

“he has right over you in obedience, he can tell you were to go and who to see, and guess what, he can forbid you from seeing your family because he has authority over you, so you better listen to him...” “what the hell is wrong with you fussy lady? i work my guts off for you, how dare you, where do you get off expecting that im going to a sweetheart"

You have to be kidding yourself that brothers who prevent wives from seeing their family and friends (yes even if their family and friends aren’t the best of influence), do so because they sincerely care about their wives. i mean if they do, then a round of applause and credit to them, but its unrealistic to believe that men always use their authority because he truly cares for her. As if some brothers don’t use that authority excuse for the wrong reasons.

It is his Allah imposed duty to do so.
The typical romeo/prince charming stereotype. The guy that is sooo 'kind/caring' because he bends to his wife's every desire out of supposed love and lets her walk over him.

The women of medina used to have to have to upper hand in their household and when the qurash saw this, they thought that maybe they were being too hard on their wives...so they adopted the way of the ansar men.

It is narrated that the women of the Sahaabah used to argue and debate with them, and indeed this is the way in which the Mothers of the Believers [i.e., the Prophet’s wives] used to act with our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “We Quraysh used to control our women, but when we came to the Ansaar we found that they were a people who were controlled by their women. So our women started to adopt the ways of the Ansaari women. I got angry with my wife and she argued with me and I did not like her arguing with me. She said, ‘Why do you object to me arguing with you? By Allaah, the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) argue with him…’” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4895; Muslim, 1479.

Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said – discussing the lessons to be learned from this hadeeth –
“This indicates that being harsh with women is something blameworthy, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) adopted the way of the Ansaar with their women and forsook the way of his people.”

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/40405/womens%20rights

So im sorry, i don’t fully buy that women who aren’t “yes sir no sir” challenge a husbands/mans ego or that it is a sign of subservience to her.

no, i don’t agree that a wife should be overally bossy to the extent where she is disrespectful of him, etc. But at the same time, a husband should be understanding and sensitive towards his wife and her emotion needs (such as seeing her family) without the ill thoughts that she is trying to walk all over him.

Being possessive and dominate is not good. Being understanding and sensitive is. You can give up a bit of your ego to please your wife...it doesn’t mean it makes you less of a man. You can get the both of best worlds, imo.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Thread should be closed, we can leave these arguments for ba3d Ramadan inshaAllah.

speaking for myself, im really not saying what im saying for the sake of argument or with bad intent....and i dont see that anyone else is either.

[Muslimeen]

:sl:



^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:

What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?

:wa:

On the day of qiyamah too you would have to fit in with the crowds, people with sunnah beards will insha allah be raised with Muhammad Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam and those with no beards, well they can choose to go wherever they want except in the company of Muhammad Sallalahu Allaihi Wassallam.

[Alpha Dude]

Note: Not ARGUING, despite as it appears by the tone.

:sl:

Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you

Wa alaykum salam,

OK then, knight in shining armour for all sisters, tell me what I meant by 'harsh'? :)

Let me define 'harsh'. It's obvious you've misunderstood. There was a reason I put it in quotes.

Somebody that has the ability to MAINTAIN WISDOM AND MERCY but NOT BACKING DOWN TO HER WILL when she is in the wrong and be FIRM against any fitnah that may arise.

Men have control for a reason. Lovey dovey crap does not always work (NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE ITS PLACE, in case you misconstrue). Man has a responsibility to be the shepherd and guide the wife and the household.

Saying that above, DOES NOT MEAN that I support: wife beating, arguments, looking down and judging her, being obsessive/dominating/always finding fault in her etc. It DOES NOT MEAN that you don't show love to her NOR does it mean you don't be gentle to her. ALL THIS HAS ITS PLACE IN MARRIAGE and without it, there is not such thing as marriage.

Indeed, Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said the best of you is he who is kindest to his wife. I would fully follow and encourage this command.

No. What I mean is, if the man is not going to ever take a stand and take on the duty Allah has imposed upon him head-on but choose to relinquish his power to the lady and 'let her wear the pants' or run some wishy washy 'joint command' household that is common nowadays then that is frankly new aged nonsense and it is PRECISELY THE REASON WHY THE DIVORCE RATE IS SO HIGH. Women don't know their role and men don't know theirs. Women trying to BE men and take on THEIR responsibility and MEN LETTING THEM is a PROBLEM left unchecked which causes all these marital breakups. You can't have two Alpha males in one household, each competing for power. Conflict in such a case is INEVITABLE.

Men need to take responsibility and know their role as protecter/guider.
Women need to accept that the man has this God given duty and not feel as though she has been hard done by whenever the man is being 'firm' (OBVIOUSLY NOT TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE (physcical/emotional/otherwise ETC) with her.

even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc.

If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii)

Are you telling me, that if your wife were to go against the command of Allah, you would not even feel anger toward her in your heart? Perhaps you love her too much to feel anger at her specifically, you'd feel anger at the act that she did instead, right?

I personally would feel anger toward her. This anger is cos I would love her and WANT her to be a good muslim. I want good for her and if I see her doing something wrong, I'd be angry at her specifically for not being good on the deen.

Let's walk through a scenario. :)

Hypothetical pushover man that doesn't take his duty of guiding and protecting the family from fitnah seriously:

*Wife does persistent sin*

[First chance of rectifying her] Husband to wife one night in bed: 'Oh honeyyy, can I have a word please? :phew Pleaseee, I need to have a word about some of your behaviour which I think goes against Islam. :omg: I don't want to hurt your feelings thoughhh :-[ but you did xyz the other day and that was wrong, you do it all the time actually. Pwomise me you won't do it again, pweaseee. :-[ We need to fear Allah :statisfie'

Wife: Awww shooo nice of you to have concern. OK sunshine. :statisfie

Husband: yayyy!!! :statisfie

*Wife, however, persists in the same sin*

[Second chance of rectifying her] Husband frowns to himself. Talks to his wife again after having been fed up for a bit:

Husband: Honey :-[ Please you pwomised you wouldn't do it again. :-[

Wife: aww sooo sorry, you have my word pumpkin pie :statisfie

*wife goes on to do her sin again and again*

This goes on for a bit longer, 3,4,5 times where he has the chance to rectify her. He comes to her like a mouse each time and she works her magic and the 'argument' dissipates with her not taking this pushover guy seriously.

Surprise suprise, divorce happens cos the guy's fed up.

I give you the first 1, 2, 3 times of gentle tip-toing around. That is FINE. But only a FOOL would continue in this manner if she is obviously not going to respect you and recognise your role as guider.

Anyway, here is what I'd do :)

1, 2 and heck even 3, let's say I behaved as above.

[Fourth chance of rectification] Husband to wife: Look, you've been messing around too much now. I've given you plenty of chances of change. Enough is enough. Stop taking the pee. Fear Allah and realise what you are doing is a sin.

I'd remind her constantly until she is fully agreed and I would raise my voice if I have to.

I.e. The 'harsh'/'firm' approach. Have I beaten her? Nope. Have I said something WRONG? NOPE. Am I right to 'chastise' her this way? YES. Is it my DUTY to chastise her? YES.

Yeah I know, there are different scenarious that could come up and you probably would find someone that would be religious to start with and wouldn't contemplate sin etc but please entertain the above as a hypothetical situation (it doesn't have to be true to real life to illustrate what I'm saying).

Now any Allah fearing woman WOULD take on board what is said. But what you have nowadays, is the typical stupid 'oohh how DARE he talk to me in that voice!!, just who does he think he is?! He's not my father. ^o)'.

THIS is the problem. Women usually can't fathom a guy telling him what to do. THEIR EGO gets the better of them, despite the guy being right in what he says, they don't want to hear any of it. She'll run off to her parents house crying he's so mean to me and blah blah blah, I want divorce!!! She can't handle it.

No no, she wants an EQUAL partnership and can't tolerate being told she is wrong by someone she perceives as her JOINT leader in the household. That's how many sisters are raised. Don't give me that different fiqh for different locations thing here, that is definitely not applicable - men are men and women are women, despite the location. In fact, this is precisely the reason why divorce rates are so high.

Married life is half iman, so I've heard. It takes a lot of sacrifice on BOTH parts. BOTH have to display patience, forgiveness, overlook faults when necessary (NON-DEENI, of course), be kind, caring, loving for a succesful (wordly and otherworldly success, mind you) marriage.

If EITHER goes into the arrangement with an ego (i.e. man is dominating 'Allah has given me the right and you have to do EVERYTHING I say blah blah' and woman is a self-absorbed pampered daddy's girl 'you have noo right to tell me off for anything mister! Only my father does and he never told me off EVER!!' ), then there is obviously going to be a problem from day one. Neither knows their right and neither is Islamically focused.

Sometimes it takes a special and wise kind of guy to be the MAN and say what NEEDS to be said. Not what she WANTS TO HEAR and not in the manner the wife WANTS it to be said. I.e. the manner that she'll ignore cos it's only coming from his dear soppie other half who couldn't ever 'hurt' (KEEP IN MIND, HER IDEA OF HURT IS SOMETHING SILLY LIKE BEING TOLD OFF FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY REASONABLE) her so she can go against what he says without consequence.

the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.

Fair enough. This is I agree with. If you're a muslimah that wants a lovey dovey husband that will give you all the love and attention you want and treat you as his EQUAL and let you RUN THE HOUSEHOLD and a guy that doesn't take his responsibility of guiding away from sin seriously, don't marry a 'harsh' guy that will tell it like it is and not take any compromise when it comes to deen.

I completely agree, there with you, Muraad. The sister would be better off with the clean shaven, pants dropped below the ankle hip new youngster that knows what it's like to live in the west so his way is obviously the more correct one, 'what do these bearded fools know? I'm going to treat my wife like a pwincess yaaay. :statisfie'

KEEP IN MIND, I'm not talking about wordly nonsense. I.e. Guy becomes harsh for something that is not deen related. I am against that, unless there is a real negative consequence of wife doing some act (not a sin, anything at all), there is no need to be harsh.

I would however, give more respect to my position of guider when it comes to deen and not tolerate being pushed over. Why? The deen is bigger than petty husband/wife squabbles.

Now also read my reply to umm sufyan, for more insight into what my position is lest you persist in misunderstanding, which she obviously has done:

and you can’t half tell, that some men use the exact same excuse against their wives with ill intent.

“he has right over you in obedience, he can tell you were to go and who to see, and guess what, he can forbid you from seeing your family because he has authority over you, so you better listen to him...” “what the hell is wrong with you fussy lady? i work my guts off for you, how dare you, where do you get off expecting that im going to a sweetheart"

You have to be kidding yourself that brothers who prevent wives from seeing their family and friends (yes even if their family and friends aren’t the best of influence), do so because they sincerely care about their wives. i mean if they do, then a round of applause and credit to them, but its unrealistic to believe that men always use their authority because he truly cares for her. As if some brothers don’t use that authority excuse for the wrong reasons.

Tell me how this is relevant to what I posted? People will abuse, that's a given. Do you honestly think I suggested she go find a person that will abuse Allah's law? What's your point? Keep your emotions on tap. No need to bring in MISPLACED examples when I didn't even suggest otherwise.

Did I say go for the guy that will be as you described? A 'petty/quarrelsome' loser of a guy?

OF COURSE there are people that abuse their position of power. Not everyone does, however.

Sisters ought to marry a guy who knows his responsibility and whose duty is to ALLAH first and foremost. Not to his parents, not to his family/friends, not to his children and not to his wife! At least that way we can be sure he will guide you to jannah and not let you guide him due to any deficiency in you.

A guy that is not going to tolerate any unbecoming conduct in deen and will not allow you to walk all over him.

Prince charming gentle soppy mouse too-afraid-to-tell-you-what-you-need-to-hear-and-in-THE-MANNER-IN-WHICH-YOU-NEED-IT-SAID-FOR-YOU-TO-TAKE-IT-SERIOUSLY will give you all you want in the DUNYA but won't be of any advantange to you in the hereafter. He's not going to take the appropriate measures to save you from sin (even if he wants to, he wouldn't be able to be firm enough to convince you).

The women of medina used to have to have to upper hand in their household and when the qurash saw this, they thought that maybe they were being too hard on their wives...so they adopted the way of the ansar men.

So im sorry, i don’t fully buy that women who aren’t “yes sir no sir” challenge a husbands/mans ego or that it is a sign of subservience to her.

no, i don’t agree that a wife should be overally bossy to the extent where she is disrespectful of him, etc. But at the same time, a husband should be understanding and sensitive towards his wife and her emotion needs (such as seeing her family) without the ill thoughts that she is trying to walk all over him.

More irrelevant stuff. Did I say she has to be a yes sir/no sir woman? Go on, read my posts again. Did I say he has to be insensitive to her needs? On the contrary woman are too emotional and men NEED empathy. Give her space, show her compassion etc, that's FINE.

YET IT IS ALSO PART OF WISDOM TO SHOW FIRMNESS, WHEN NEEDED. All other times he can be the gentlest soul in the world to her, though not to the extent that he bows to her every petty demand.

Being possessive and dominate is not good. Being understanding and sensitive is. You can give up a bit of your ego to please your wife...it doesn’t mean it makes you less of a man. You can get the both of best worlds, imo.

I AGREE. This is not even my position.

A man that humbles himself and treats his wife with a foot massage when she's tired, brings her chocolates and flowers to cheer her up, tells her kind soothing words, behaves sweetly with her, pampers her with his love for her is COMMENDABLE and I would ENCOURAGE such behaviour but the moment the wife 'steps out of line' and the lovey dovey method of guiding her back does not work/does not bear any fruit, then the man needs to bring out his authority to guide her with wisdom and if a firm voice is what's required then so be it and I'm not saying he should beat or traumatise her, lest you guys come out with some statistics about domestic/'emotional' violence <_<.

Anyways. I'll stop here. I've said a lot. I've used caps too which some might assume for anger. I'm not 'arguing' nor being a troll. I feel passionate about this matter hence the tone. No bad feelings.

[Alpha Dude]

I think the argument about the beard is way off..and I tend to agree more with Br AntiKarateKid - a beard doesn't make a marriage (which is what we were discussing in the first place) and therefore doesn't really need to discussed at length in my humble opinion. I think it is subjective at the end of the day, Allah will judge the individual - did he willingly defy the sunnah or did he just have trouble with this one aspect of the sunnah. Essentially, it's not a big deal to me.

Lastly, we need to move past these arguments/discussions that are irrelevant and unnecessary and at the end of the provide no benefit - our communities have way more serious problems that need to dealt with than the growing of beards. Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc - those are what we should be focusing on because those are very serious societal problems that are plaguing OUR community and the practicing people in the society have a duty to address those issues - not get caught up in discussions that are essentially at this point in time, non-issues. Let's focus on what matters.

Please, if you're reading this and have the time to listen, then listen to the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LumwYGp729w
http://vimeo.com/11257397
http://vimeo.com/11428511

Simple question: Is a guy that thinks beard is not from the deen or doesn't consider it praiseworthy and FOR THAT reason, does not adopt it, a good muslim? Categorically, it is proven to be wajib. Anyone that neglects it is sinful.

HOWEVER, all along, I have said that it is OKAY (so to say) if a person does not have one but NOT OKAY if he thinks there is no virtue attached with it.

If you personally honestly do not find any virtue in a beard, then I'm frankly disappointed. I expected better from you, brother.

FYI, when I made the initial post to the sister, it was relative in the sense that she has a choice between two:

1. best character, full salah etc but no beard (DUE SPECIFICALLY TO ATTACHING NO IMPORTANCE TO IT).

VS

2. best character, full salah etc but full beard.

So all these issues people have created in this thread is due to misunderstandings in the first place.

Seriously. How can any muslim entertain that guy number 1 is the better option than the latter for an Islamically focused sister?

The argument hasn't been about a beard making a marriage in the first place. That is not what I was saying or arguing. Despite the sister's question.

Marriage is not an end. It is a tool. The end goal is Allah. Marriage is ibaadah. Guy 2 obviously has more importance on beard/sunnah than guy 1, hence more likely to guide her and the family to a more fulfilling Islamic wedded life.

This is what the sister asked btw:

I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..

She said 'perfect' in every way. Hence the option between guys 1, 2 above. Which any person can see that guy two is better (also note that my reply was IN THE EVENT that the brother does not attach importance to beard and doesn't keep it for that reason, not simply being beardless per se (for any valid reason).

Whilst I agree there are more important issues, at the end of the day, it's not like we are spending our entire lives just hinging on this one sunnah issue. It's just a discussion on a forum that will end in a couple of days most likely.

What about if somebody came and started arguing that the sunnah acts in salah are not really important? When salah is the first thing Allah will question us about, would you really say well, it's only sunnah, there are more important issues vis. "Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc"?

No muslim with his head screwed on right would argue that sunnah is not important. It is what defines us. The kind of problems you mention divorce, alchohol etc is a SYMPTOM of not leading an Islamic lifestyle and HUGE part of the Islamic lifestyle is following the sunnah. Not just the outward but the internal aspect to. I.e smiling at people, thinking well of others etc.

If everyone followed EVERY act of Sunnah, this world would be a much better place. Sunnah cannot be emphasised enough.

HOWEVER, in saying this, I do AGREE that there are people that focus TOO MUCH on the external and I UNDERSTAND why you feel repulsed by the attitude and RIGHTLY SO.

[Rhubarb Tart]

:sl:

What wrong with 'joint command'?:hiding:

And how do you know the divorce rate is so high because of 'joint command'or 'the wife wearing the trouser'? What is the actual dirvoce rate for the muslims? How do we know it is high?

I would save myself the hassle and never marry again.

[Cabdullahi]

:sl:
I would save myself the hassle and never marry again.

foolish thing to say but good for you madame....expect a very very lonely life

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

What wrong with 'joint command'?:hiding:

And how do you know the divorce rate is so high because of 'joint command'or 'the wife wearing the trouser'? What is the actual dirvoce rate for the muslims? How do we know it is high?

I would save myself the hassle and never marry again.

Wa alaykum salam,

Allah has given men the duty of carer, protector, leader.

I am hypothetising based on what I have read, seen and heard. There's hardly going to be a survey out there with full statistics that somehow show that women are wearing the trousers hence divorce.

The fact remains, due to what we see in the west, the joint command method is highly encouraged by just about everything. This approach goes against Islam. If you go against Allah's command then obviously you'll fall into wrong.

[Rhubarb Tart]

foolish thing to say but good for you madame....expect a very very lonely life

Better than giving painful birth to his child whilst you cook, clean and slave over your husband. After all that he get to tell you what to do?

no thanks, been through it. Btw I wont be lonely at all. I would encourage other sisters but marriage is definitely not for me.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Wa alaykum salam,

Allah has given men the duty of carer, protector, leader.

I am hypothetising based on what I have read, seen and heard. There's hardly going to be a survey out there with full statistics that somehow show that women are wearing the trousers hence divorce.

The fact remains, due to what we see in the west, the joint command method is highly encouraged by just about everything. This approach goes against Islam. If you go against Allah's command then obviously you'll fall into wrong.

Okay, I thought so.

Yes I know Allah (swt) made men the leader, carer and protector. I didnt say Allah (swt) didnt.

[Cabdullahi]

Better than giving painful birth to his child whilst you cook, clean and slave over your husband. After all that he get to tell you what to do?

no thanks, been through it. Btw I wont be lonely at all. I would encourage other sisters but marriage is definitely not for me.

to me i think you have a problem with the system Allah has set...you dont want to give birth no problem.. you have two options... do a sex change or get sterilization and then sign up for some tango lessons

you know what marriage is also not for me...i just want to live a life that revolves around my advancement as a lone person forget about everyone else...and forget the ummah....i just want to enjoy life...who wants a nagging wife and silly kids they're just an obstruction

I'm absolutely shocked at what you've just said Audhbillah may Allah guide us

[purple]

Better than giving painful birth to his child whilst you cook, clean and slave over your husband. After all that he get to tell you what to do?

no thanks, been through it. Btw I wont be lonely at all. I would encourage other sisters but marriage is definitely not for me.

I think you’re underrating marriage. Provided that you find the right person, marriage is a beautiful thing.
Have some faith in Allah (swt). Please have some faith sister.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

@ bedioun:
Your reply in regards to my post is very strange and misunderstood, i seriously don’t know where/what to begin with.

You should make your position and stance clear ahkee and not when someone opposes your idea holdup the victim card and cry “wait a minute that’s not what i said.” And you’d be right, that isn’t what you said, but the way you constructed your post, you can’t blame anyone for taking it the way they did.

Everything you mentioned in your post practically implied that the emotional needs for women ought to be disregarded and that a good husband is a man who fears Allah ONLY whilst being disregarded to her emotional needs. Not to mention that a woman who wants a kind and considerate husband, is irrational and is walking all over her husband (that’s where the quote about the ansaar, etc was relevant).

what peeves me off, is that you “mask” your whole argument on “as long as he is all deen, then stuff the rest.” “hey is is only looking out for you”

Please akhee, don’t insult my intelligence. I am not stupid.

If you don’t want people to take it the wrong way, make your stance clear.

I know, I’m so emotional. but guess what? Im so proud of it. *awaits the “woah, I didn’t say that was an issue.” please, what planet do you think I’m on?

and for the record, we all know you men behind closed doors cry like a girl. as if men are anymore emotionally stable then women. You guys are just as worse (actually, in some cases you’re alot worse)...



seriously though, i get where you're coming from when you say the man is the head of the house, etc and that he cares about his "subjects."

the problem is, i feel this is just a mask for something deeper and a deeper argument that you dont want to directly say, knowingly or unknowingly.

this seems to stemmed from and fueled by a sense of dominance (not directed at you, but speaking generally) and not so much caring for the wife and children per se. you seem to be using the importance of marrying a pious man, to get your point across about obedience to the husband and that women are controlling men by wanting a sensitive man.

these 2 just seem to be a justification to support his exercise of power. if it is part of the sunnah that the man is in charge, fine no worries wallahi, but again i don't feel this has anything do with what the sunnah says, but rather a husband being in authority and his sense of dominance in that respect.


i dislike for my sisters to be unaware and mislead that their husbands should be only praying,etc and this is the be all and end all in a husband....rasoolullah sallaahu aleyhi wa sallam was both a pious and affectionate man...I've seen brothers use the exact same excuse that you have used (i.e authority) when in reality it is nothing to do with the crowd she maybe with, but rather about that he is the man and this deeply annoy's me. i dislike deceit and i will not settle for my sisters to be mislead.





And just skimming over the reply to someone else

Surprise suprise, divorce happens cos the guy's fed up.

The guy is fed up because she is not adhering to her deen, or he is fed up because she is not listening to him. There is a difference.

[Rhubarb Tart]

to me i think you have a problem with the system Allah has set...you dont want to give birth no problem.. you have two options... do a sex change or get sterilization and then sign up for some tango lessons

you know what marriage is also not for me...i just want to live a life that revolves around my advancement as a lone person forget about everyone else...and forget the ummah....i just want to enjoy life...who wants a nagging wife and silly kids they're just an obstruction

I'm absolutely shocked at what you've just said Audhbillah may Allah guide us

Salam

You like to jump the gun don’t you? I was hoping you would not reply back. Instead you happen to reply back with assumptions.

Fortunately I don’t even want to have a sex change thank you very much. If you think I am a selfish person then good for you. I certainly not going to lose my sleep over it.

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

Now any Allah fearing woman WOULD take on board what is said. But what you have nowadays, is the typical stupid 'oohh how DARE he talk to me in that voice!!, just who does he think he is?! He's not my father. ^o)'.

THIS is the problem. Women usually can't fathom a guy telling him what to do. THEIR EGO gets the better of them, despite the guy being right in what he says, they don't want to hear any of it. She'll run off to her parents house crying he's so mean to me and blah blah blah, I want divorce!!! She can't handle it.

^rofl... But not all women are like that... Some wouldn't say a word!

:wa:

[Alpha Dude]

Better than giving painful birth to his child whilst you cook, clean and slave over your husband. After all that he get to tell you what to do?

no thanks, been through it. Btw I wont be lonely at all. I would encourage other sisters but marriage is definitely not for me.

DEAR sister. I say this with the best of intentions. Life is not MEANT to be easy.

What you say is above is problematic from a religious perspective. Getting married to fulfil half your deen, having kids and raising them pious is WORSHIP.

Just like any other worship, it is going to be a struggle and difficult at times. Do you complain when you fast all day? Do you complain when you pray salah as you can't seem to find the time? Do you complain when giving zakat thinking you could use the money to yourself for other stuff? No, I don't think you would. Likewise, think of marriage as worship and approach it with that mentality.

Look at the bigger picture and aim to revolve your life around Allah first and foremost. Everything else is incidental. If you find marriage difficult, you strive to be patient. It is THIS kind of patience and sacrifice that both parts in a couple must display that Allah will reward on the day of judgement. Marriage is not easy and that's why it is half the deen. Get married and you are in the running to gain a lot of reward if your intentions are correct. Remain single and you really miss out.

[Cabdullahi]

Salam

You like to jump the gun don’t you? I was hoping you would not reply back. Instead you happen to reply back with assumptions.

Fortunately I don’t even want to have a sex change thank you very much. If you think I am a selfish person then good for you. I certainly not going to lose my sleep over it.

oki doki have a wonderful ramadan

[Rhubarb Tart]

I think you’re underrating marriage. Provided that you find the right person, marriage is a beautiful thing.
Have some faith in Allah (swt). Please have some faith sister.

:sl:

Thank you for your concern. Dont worry yourself too much as I do have faith and choose not to marry ever again. Marriage is indeed beautiful for most people.

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:

^rofl... But not all women are like that... Some wouldn't say a word!

:wa:

Wa alaykum salam,

I know, sister. It was merely a hypo scenario as clearly stated. I.e. what would you do in such a case.

[Rhubarb Tart]

DEAR sister. I say this with the best of intentions. Life is not MEANT to be easy.

What you say is above is problematic from a religious perspective. Getting married to fulfil half your deen, having kids and raising them pious is WORSHIP.

Just like any other worship, it is going to be a struggle and difficult at times. Do you complain when you fast all day? Do you complain when you pray salah as you can't seem to find the time? Do you complain when giving zakat thinking you could use the money to yourself for other stuff? No, I don't think you would. Likewise, think of marriage as worship and approach it with that mentality.

Look at the bigger picture and aim to revolve your life around Allah first and foremost. Everything else is incidental. If you find marriage difficult, you strive to be patient. It is THIS kind of patience and sacrifice that both parts in a couple must display that Allah will reward on the day of judgement. Marriage is not easy and that's why it is half the deen. Get married and you are in the running to gain a lot of reward if your intentions are correct. Remain single and you really miss out.

I already fulfiled marriage once. I dont have to do it again. I already done my part for the ummah. I dont think the religion said I have to do it again now did it?

[Rhubarb Tart]

oki doki have a wonderful ramadan

ramadan kareem

[Soulja Girl]

:sl:

I know, sister. It was merely a hypo scenario as clearly stated. I.e. what would you do in such a case.

^No, you're right... That's where the problem lies cuz that's exactly what a typical childish woman these days would do... She can't comprise wiv her husband and takes small petty things seriously thus divorces take place. If she has good manners, then stuff like this won't happen, it's obvious.

:wa:

[purple]

:sl:

Thank you for your concern. Dont worry yourself too much as I do have faith and choose not to marry ever again. Marriage is indeed beautiful for most people.

:wa:

Subhallah!
Sister, I have been through hell with my current marriage. It is falling apart but that wouldn’t stop me from getting married. Marriage is the most beautiful thing in this world. Do you have children? If you don’t then you haven’t fulfilled the duty you owe to Allah (swt). I'm shocked at someone that gives up on life like you. I dont mean to offend.

[Danah]

OMG!!! did you even sleep guys?
This thread is going crazy.....It went off topic...it started to be an innocent questions to brothers and now it became a flaming war! subhanAllah!!
by the way, just in case you forgot>>>>>>>>>> *Ramadan Mubarak* :hmm: you are all fasting if I am not mistaken <_<

This thread should be closed if you "still" want to maintain the brotherhood/sisterhood between you.

has there ever been a discussion thread that didnt turn into a fight?

No!
LI became a crazy place recently, this is a very sad thing indeed...inna lillah wa inna ilayhi raji3oon!

[Alpha Dude]

Umm sufyaan, I feel no desire to respond to you. You just want to argue for the sake of it. I have said what I wished and so have you, let's leave it at that.

Sweet106, I'm not compelling you to get married. Simply advising that if you were to get married, look at it from the perspective that I mentioned.

[purple]

sweet106 May Allah guide you. Ameen

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Umm sufyaan, I feel no desire to respond to you.You just want to argue for the sake of it. I have said what I wished and so have you, let's leave it at that.

no i dont. maybe the truth hurts? but what would i know, im just the ignorant woman. yay, go me.

but whatever...

[Cabdullahi]

sweet106 May Allah guide you. Ameen

May Allah guide us all Ameen.










.......

[Vigno]

:sl:



^rofl... But not all women are like that... Some wouldn't say a word!

:wa:

Lol that's quite right, there are really wonderful women in this world, but many men just judge according to "some" cases. Grow up men and don't forget that many of us are treating their wives like they are their slaves and they play with the word "divorce", oh you don't want to do this, ok you are divorced and then yes they go home later and cry like babies( I mean the men) then they go after that woman again and act like they love them and then when they remarry its back again.
Sorry but am straight, no offence.

[Rhubarb Tart]

:wa:

Subhallah!
Sister, I have been through hell with my current marriage. It is falling apart but that wouldn’t stop me from getting married. Marriage is the most beautiful thing in this world. Do you have children? If you don’t then you haven’t fulfilled the duty you owe to Allah (swt). I'm shocked at someone that gives up on life like you. I dont mean to offend.

Again thank you for your concern but no thanks. You and me are two different people.

I fullfilled the duty marriage invloved, I certainly dont need to do it again. I did ever part of that duty. I dont think I am going against Allah (swt) when I choose to not marry ever again. I hope all goes well for you.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Sweet106, I'm not compelling you to get married. Simply advising that if you were to get married, look at it from the perspective that I mentioned.

cool, understood.

[Alpha Dude]

no i dont. maybe the truth hurts? but what would i know, im just the ignorant woman. yay, go me.

but whatever...

Okay. Have it your way. Let me crush your little uprising.

You should make your position and stance clear ahkee and not when someone opposes your idea holdup the victim card and cry “wait a minute that’s not what i said.” And you’d be right, that isn’t what you said, but the way you constructed your post, you can’t blame anyone for taking it the way they did.

Hold up. I don't have to type everything and anything and waste my effort when it is up to the READER to inquire about what bits they don't understand and not ASSUME the contrary to what is meant anyway.

Everything you mentioned in your post practically implied that the emotional needs for women ought to be disregarded and that a good husband is a man who fears Allah ONLY whilst being disregarded to her emotional needs. Not to mention that a woman who wants a kind and considerate husband, is irrational and is walking all over her husband (that’s where the quote about the ansaar, etc was relevant).

You don't know how to read. If this is the message you take from my post, then you serioiusly do not know how to read. Either that or you just want to argue for the sake of it, as I mentioned.

I don't need to go through my post and highlight the kindness etc that a man must show, it's visible to all.

what peeves me off, is that you “mask” your whole argument on “as long as he is all deen, then stuff the rest.” “hey is is only looking out for you”

Please akhee, don’t insult my intelligence. I am not stupid.

Don't even understand what you're getting at here. I'm not masking anything. It's your naive mind that's assuming such silly notions.

Did I say 'as long as he is all deen, then stuff the rest'? I repeatedly said otherwise. Clearly, you can't read.

and for the record, we all know you men behind closed doors cry like a girl. as if men are anymore emotionally stable then women. You guys are just as worse (actually, in some cases you’re alot worse)...

What are you on about? Who said anything about crying is wrong? Who even mentioned crying??

If a guy were to cry for legitimate reasons then good on him. What's your problem? Context is everything. There is a time and place to be strong and a time to be soft.

seriously though, i get where you're coming from when you say the man is the head of the house, etc and that he cares about his "subjects."

the problem is, i feel this is just a mask for something deeper and a deeper argument that you dont want to directly say, knowingly or unknowingly.

this seems to stemmed from and fueled by a sense of dominance (not directed at you, but speaking generally) and not so much caring for the wife and children per se. you seem to be using the importance of marrying a pious man, to get your point across about obedience to the husband and that women are controlling men by wanting a sensitive man.

these 2 just seem to be a justification to support his exercise of power. if it is part of the sunnah that the man is in charge, fine no worries wallahi, but again i don't feel this has anything do with what the sunnah says, but rather a husband being in authority and his sense of dominance in that respect.

COMPLETELY FALSE. Maybe some men have this desire not me and not what I would ever argue for.

i dislike for my sisters to be unaware and mislead that their husbands should be only praying,etc and this is the be all and end all in a husband....rasoolullah sallaahu aleyhi wa sallam was both a pious and affectionate man...I've seen brothers use the exact same excuse that you have used (i.e authority) when in reality it is nothing to do with the crowd she maybe with, but rather about that he is the man and this deeply annoy's me. i dislike deceit and i will not settle for my sisters to be mislead.

My post is CLEAR that I do NOT support what you are suggesting. Don't know why you bring these issues up.

The guy is fed up because she is not adhering to her deen, or he is fed up because she is not listening to him. There is a difference.

Talk about taking it out of the context. He is fed up cos she is not listening AND cos she is sinning. BOTH are important. A wife that doesn't listen is obviously a hindrance to a good marriage as is a wife that sins. What's your point?

[أحمد]

:sl:

Simple question: Is a guy that thinks beard is not from the deen or doesn't consider it praiseworthy and FOR THAT reason, does not adopt it, a good muslim? Categorically, it is proven to be wajib. Anyone that neglects it is sinful.

HOWEVER, all along, I have said that it is OKAY (so to say) if a person does not have one but NOT OKAY if he thinks there is no virtue attached with it.

If you personally honestly do not find any virtue in a beard, then I'm frankly disappointed. I expected better from you, brother.

FYI, when I made the initial post to the sister, it was relative in the sense that she has a choice between two:

1. best character, full salah etc but no beard (DUE SPECIFICALLY TO ATTACHING NO IMPORTANCE TO IT).

VS

2. best character, full salah etc but full beard.

So all these issues people have created in this thread is due to misunderstandings in the first place.

Seriously. How can any muslim entertain that guy number 1 is the better option than the latter for an Islamically focused sister?

The argument hasn't been about a beard making a marriage in the first place. That is not what I was saying or arguing. Despite the sister's question.

Marriage is not an end. It is a tool. The end goal is Allah. Marriage is ibaadah. Guy 2 obviously has more importance on beard/sunnah than guy 1, hence more likely to guide her and the family to a more fulfilling Islamic wedded life.

This is what the sister asked btw:
She said 'perfect' in every way. Hence the option between guys 1, 2 above. Which any person can see that guy two is better (also note that my reply was IN THE EVENT that the brother does not attach importance to beard and doesn't keep it for that reason, not simply being beardless per se (for any valid reason).

Whilst I agree there are more important issues, at the end of the day, it's not like we are spending our entire lives just hinging on this one sunnah issue. It's just a discussion on a forum that will end in a couple of days most likely.

What about if somebody came and started arguing that the sunnah acts in salah are not really important? When salah is the first thing Allah will question us about, would you really say well, it's only sunnah, there are more important issues vis. "Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc"?

No muslim with his head screwed on right would argue that sunnah is not important. It is what defines us. The kind of problems you mention divorce, alchohol etc is a SYMPTOM of not leading an Islamic lifestyle and HUGE part of the Islamic lifestyle is following the sunnah. Not just the outward but the internal aspect to. I.e smiling at people, thinking well of others etc.

If everyone followed EVERY act of Sunnah, this world would be a much better place. Sunnah cannot be emphasised enough.

HOWEVER, in saying this, I do AGREE that there are people that focus TOO MUCH on the external and I UNDERSTAND why you feel repulsed by the attitude and RIGHTLY SO.

Where there's any matter of Islam; its not based on the two restricted criteria. I'm not saying that you're wrong; what I'm saying is you missed out a number 3, which would be that he says its wajib to keep a beard, but chooses not to do so.

(61:2-3) "O you who have believed, why do you say what you do not do? Great is hatred in the sight of Allah that you say what you do not do."

:wa:

[أحمد]

:sl:

:wa:

Subhallah!
Sister, I have been through hell with my current marriage. It is falling apart but that wouldn’t stop me from getting married. Marriage is the most beautiful thing in this world. Do you have children? If you don’t then you haven’t fulfilled the duty you owe to Allah (swt). I'm shocked at someone that gives up on life like you. I dont mean to offend.

Whether someone has fulfilled their duty towards Allah; is between that person and Allah. There have been Muslim women in history who didn't have children; this includes early Islamic History. We can only judge based on ma'roof and munkar, and keep faith in Allah. Allah is the best judge.

:wa:

[Alpha Dude]

:sl:
Where there's any matter of Islam; its not based on the two restricted criteria. I'm not saying that you're wrong; what I'm saying is you missed out a number 3, which would be that he says its wajib to keep a beard, but chooses not to do so.

(61:2-3) "O you who have believed, why do you say what you do not do? Great is hatred in the sight of Allah that you say what you do not do."

:wa:

Wa alaykum salam,
Thank you. This is not relevant to my post, however.

[S_87]

@ bedouin - you have some valid points but the way you put them out aint the best (i havent read all ur posts but i do understand SOME of what youre saying) but maybe a more polite approach in what youre saying will get rid of the 'harshness'

@sweet106- If you had a bad experience in marraige then dont let anyone tell you that your wanting to not remarry again affect you. @ those people- a bad bad experience makes u shy away from something and not want to go through it again. instead of telling the sister she is wrong in her choice (which was caused by an experience!!) maybe you should show that not all men are bad and expect a slave?

[Vigno]

Asalamu Alekum

May I ask why everyone is attacking each other? I remind everyone here that Islam is not like this, if you want to clear your point and give your comment then say it gently without being mean or rude. It seems that anger is overwhelming everyone's hearts here, say Aouthu bilahi min al shaitan al rajeem and ask Allah forgiveness my brothers and sisters. If someone says something you don't like just don't keep countering, say Jazakum Allah khiir and keep silent, nothing wrong in that.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

istikhara before marriages should resolve all problems.



marrying for the religion should resolve all problems.




^ combine these two and i guarantee a successful marriage.

yes i go so far as to guarantee it.



THAT is the REASON why I would never consider a hijaabless girl, it annoys me enough that they fall into my sight

[Beardo]

For me, No Hijaab = No Prospect. As far as the ninjabi-ness is concerned... As long as she's not a social hermit, I'm completely okay. It's always awkward discussing the type of spouse you're looking for on the public Internet space. Especially while thinking she might be reading this right now, but anyhoo...

Ninjabi-ness is NOT a turn off as long as she does have social skills and is out there in her own way. I hope that makes sense.

[أحمد]

:sl:

istikhara before marriages should resolve all problems.



marrying for the religion should resolve all problems.




^ combine these two and i guarantee a successful marriage.

yes i go so far as to guarantee it.



THAT is the REASON why I would never consider a hijaabless girl, it annoys me enough that they fall into my sight

Pray two rak'ahs and say the following:

اللهم إني أستخيرك بعلمك ، واستقدرك بقدرتك ، وأسألك من فضلك العظيم ، فإنك تقدر ولا أقدر ، وتعلم ولا أعلم ، وأنت علام الغيوب . اللهم إن كنت تعلم أن هذا الأمر - ويسمي حاجته - خير لي في ديني ومعاشي وعاقبة أمري فاقدره لي ، ويسره لي ، ثم بارك لي فيه . وإن كنت تعلم أن هذا الأمر شر لي في ديني ومعاشي وعاقبة أمري عاجله وآجله فاصرفه عني واصرفني عنه ، واقدر لي الخير حيث كان ثم أرضني به

Reported by Bukhari.

:wa:

[S_87]

istikhara before marriages should resolve all problems.



marrying for the religion should resolve all problems.




^ combine these two and i guarantee a successful marriage.

yes i go so far as to guarantee it.



THAT is the REASON why I would never consider a hijaabless girl, it annoys me enough that they fall into my sight

unfortunately it is not as black and white as that. there were pious Allah fearing people (sahabas) who divorced. sure the above definitely helps but unfortunately it isnt a guarantee

[Vigno]

istikhara before marriages should resolve all problems.



marrying for the religion should resolve all problems.




^ combine these two and i guarantee a successful marriage.

yes i go so far as to guarantee it.



THAT is the REASON why I would never consider a hijaabless girl, it annoys me enough that they fall into my sight

Jazaka Allah Khiir brother, what you said is what's right.
Btw it annoys me too and at times sad...Allah yahdihum.