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Haider_Ali
08-20-2010, 09:53 AM
Salaam brothers and sisters of Islam,

I am 21 years old, British, born catholic (although parents not strict) and living in London. I am recently converted to Islam and this is my first ramadan as a muslim, i'm finding fasting fairly tough but i am enjoying it Mashallah :D

I do have a slight problem though and i'm not sure if i'm posting it in the right section? This is not a joke:

Before i converted i used to drink like normal white people do, hit on girls, look at porn, without a care in the world. Now i am alcohol free, Insha'Allah, i have a steady muslim girlfriend who i adore and hope to continue to date Insha'Allah (we are halal, before you ask.) And i don't look at other women or desire them Insha'Allah.

I try to avoid all things haram, however i have a love for masturbation, and sometimes porn along with it. In my eyes it makes me feel good and stops me from committing a bigger sin in illegal sexual relations with my private parts. At the moment it is ramadan and i have been resisting with every fibre in my body.. but once fasting hours are over, i find myself wanting to look at it once, and pleasure myself.

When ramadan is over, i'd want to do it maybe once a week.

How bad of a sin is this? I know it is wrong, but Insha'Allah it is the only temptation i have, and one i feel i need in my life. Are there any muslims out there, male or female who do masturbate?

What if i can try to not look at porn (will be very hard) and think of my girlfriend when masturbating, i also sometimes do this.

I read somewhere, that while unmarried it is acceptable?

I appreciate your replies in advance.

Haider Ali
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Cabdullahi
08-20-2010, 10:12 AM
Might be of good use to you

Most Men are Victims of Porn

by Henry Makow Ph.D.

(Revised and updated from Nov. 2001.)




In the rear view mirror, it's now clear porn is used as a form of political control. Get us to think about sex, and we won't think about how our freedom is being taken away.
I doubt if women were always seen as sex objects. They had to sexualize women. PLAYBOY undressed the "girl next door." That was for my generation. Now they are sexualizing children. Next it will be animals. And finally fence posts.
The idea is to get us thinking of nothing but our genitals and short term relationships.
PLAYBOY changed the habits of my (baby boomer) generation resulting in sexual chaos and broken families.
PLAYBOY was presented as advanced thinking. But in retrospect we can see that it really was sophisticated social engineering. With messianic fervor, Playboy took its message of sexual freedom to the American male who, in the 1950's and 1960's, still consecrated sex for marriage. But the freedom was illusory. Playboy's aim, the aim of all pornographers, was to hook men on the glossy fantasy.

To do this, they had to prevent them from finding true satisfaction in marriage. In Judith Reisman's words, "Playboy was the first national magazine to exploit college men's fears of women and family commitment. Playboy offered itself as a reliable, comforting substitute for monogamous heterosexual love." ("Soft Porn Plays Hardball," p 47)

MY EXPERIENCE
At the onset of puberty, at age 11 in 1961, magazine pictures of women showing cleavage or leg had a magical quality for me. Pretty soon, my friends were stealing PLAYBOY from newsstands and I was also tempted.
Instead, with some trepidation, I approached my father. In the spirit of the times, ("sex is natural, repression is bad") and without any guidance, he bought me a copy. Pretty soon I was a subscriber.
My father's decision vastly increased my trust and confidence in him. But it had the effect of making lust take the place of love in my imagination. Sex was sublimated love. I imagined that sex was something sacred that took place between perfect creatures in secluded garrets. The beautiful buxom centerfolds filled me with near religious wonder and awe.
PLAYBOY packaged this religion of sex. There was no interest in what women are really like as flawed human beings. The subjects of love, marriage, children, and aging were disparaged. There was nothing about true masculinity and femininity. The religion of sex was curiously asexual.
Nevertheless, it took over my subconscious. My erotic dreams often involved PLAYBOY pictures. I can relate, albeit in milder terms, to porn addict "Mike" who wrote on this site that he prefers packaged porn to real sex.
REAL WOMEN INVISIBLE
Women who were not beautiful became invisible. I could not take them seriously. My first wife was average looking. She had spoken to me twice before we became carrel neighbors at the university library. I had absolutely no recollection of these encounters.
The fixation on physical beauty was psychologically emasculating. How did I approach someone when I saw only the surface? Attractive women remained mystical goddesses. I put them on a pedestal. I was too needy. I couldn't relate to women as human beings.
I lost touch with my masculine identity, my feelings and critical faculties. I wanted love but didn't know how to get it.
I was part of the (homo) sexual revolution, part of a generation of sexual fashion victims. Despite the example of my father, I didn't grasp the eternal model of masculinity. In this model, a man leads and looks after the woman and children he loves.

Unconsciously, men and women are still looking for this kind of relationship. But with feminism, a lesbian philosophy, teaching women to be men, and vice-versa, both sexes are lost. I, for one, had no identity, goal, or motivation. I spent my time looking for them in social action and eastern religion.
I married the average looking woman because I was NOT obsessively attracted to her. I was tired of being ruled by my desires. She was a feminist and had a career, allowing me to pursue my own interests. Eventually, inevitably, I hungered for more.

I fell in love with an insecure young woman who played to my idealization of beauty by maintaining a facade. I divorced my wife and lived with this woman for six years. For a long time, she infatuated me. My love was totally giving, in the hope of securing her love. Mature love is demanding; she would have responded to that.

My book, "A Long Way to Go for a Date" chronicles my slow and painful emergence from immaturity and arrested development. I am now happily married because I belatedly discovered masculine identity. A man cannot be ruled by desire for sex and love. A man is God's agent, creating a New World, the family. This is his duty, purpose and fulfillment. A woman's fulfillment is to be his partner and means to this end.


I missed the opportunity to have a normal family. I have only one son by my first marriage. So the social engineers scored a victory with me, and countless other men like me.




NOW, WE'RE ALL SEX ADDICTS (TO SOME DEGREE)


In normal heterosexuality, sex is reserved for the courtship and procreation stage. With parenthood, sex becomes less important, and eventually becomes pretty irrelevant. Thanks to porn, we are being re-engineered to behave like homosexuals, never to marry or have children.


Instead of families, we have sex. Sex from cradle to grave with multiple partners. Sex. Everywhere you look. All the time. We suffer from arrested development with an adolescent fixation on our appearance and genitals. We remain stuck in courtship mode, never maturing and developing as intended.


Some good articles on here : http://www.quitpornaddiction.com/
Reply

Cabdullahi
08-20-2010, 10:17 AM
Reprogramming Your Subconscious Mind.

•Be the guardian of everything that enters your mind - Know that everything you see hear and feel goes directly into your subconscious mind and you must manage the information you allow in. Eliminate negative information as much as you can by limiting the amount of news you read, stop seeing violent movies, read only positive information. Keep the positive information flowing into your mind and your subconscious will naturally become more positive.

•Set aside time for you - Everyone needs time to reflect. Whether you pray, meditate, practice yoga, or just read positive information. Set aside an hour each day for yourself. Your subconscious mind needs to know just how important you are and nothing shows this importance than having time for yourself. Many believe there is not a free hour in the day for themselves. Whether you have to wake an hour early or go to bed an hour later having an hour of peace is an important way to clear your mind and open yourself to the possibilities your subconscious mind can offer.

•Speak kindly to yourself - When you look in the mirror do you like what you see? Do you compliment yourself on your most outstanding attributes? Stop all negative talk to yourself immediately. You are a perfect creation of God and you have beautiful traits that need recognizing. Remind yourself of your great eyes or your winning smile-whatever sets you apart from everyone else in a positive way. Your subconscious will thank you.
Reply

Cabdullahi
08-20-2010, 10:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Salaam brothers and sisters of Islam,

I am 21 years old, British, born catholic (although parents not strict) and living in London. I am recently converted to Islam and this is my first ramadan as a muslim, i'm finding fasting fairly tough but i am enjoying it Mashallah :D

I do have a slight problem though and i'm not sure if i'm posting it in the right section? This is not a joke:

Before i converted i used to drink like normal white people do, hit on girls, look at porn, without a care in the world. Now i am alcohol free, Insha'Allah, i have a steady muslim girlfriend who i adore and hope to continue to date Insha'Allah (we are halal, before you ask.) And i don't look at other women or desire them Insha'Allah.

I try to avoid all things haram, however i have a love for masturbation, and sometimes porn along with it. In my eyes it makes me feel good and stops me from committing a bigger sin in illegal sexual relations with my private parts. At the moment it is ramadan and i have been resisting with every fibre in my body.. but once fasting hours are over, i find myself wanting to look at it once, and pleasure myself.

When ramadan is over, i'd want to do it maybe once a week.

How bad of a sin is this? I know it is wrong, but Insha'Allah it is the only temptation i have, and one i feel i need in my life. Are there any muslims out there, male or female who do masturbate?

What if i can try to not look at porn (will be very hard) and think of my girlfriend when masturbating, i also sometimes do this.

I read somewhere, that while unmarried it is acceptable?

I appreciate your replies in advance.

Haider Ali
From what i understood its become an obsession and without a doubt it will destroy you because that's its purpose, this obsession of yours could be related to a deeper issue and until you get to the root problem the obsession wont go away

keep fighting and insha'Allah you'll be free
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tango92
08-20-2010, 11:23 AM
3 remedies

increase your iman. keep reading the quran and looking at the signs Allah swt has given us. when our Iman becomes strong our actions follow naturally

if you have a genuine desire to stop, then sometimes drastic measures need to be taken. take your wireless adapter and chuck it in the bin. after 6 months you can have your internet back, in the meanwhile internet cafes are available for emergencies. and take other measures to ensure you dont have easy acess to porn.

or take a holiday, youll be surprised how little you feel desire when away from home. if you can try to go on umrah or hajj. or a muslim country at least. then youll understand its all in your head (theres no withdrawal symptoms), humans werent created to be slaves to their genitals.

all the best. Salaam bro.
Reply

Haider_Ali
08-20-2010, 12:23 PM
Thanks people.

And is it true if i continue to masturbate i may go to hell?
Reply

Cabdullahi
08-20-2010, 12:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Thanks people.

And is it true if i continue to masturbate i may go to hell?
easy solution to masturbating = get married


Yusuf Al-Qaradawi

"The majority of Muslim scholars consider masturbation haram (unlawful). Imam Malik bases his judgment on the verse: 'Those who guard their sexual organs except with their spouses or those whom their right hands possess, for (with regard to them) they are without blame. But those who crave something beyond that are transgressors.' (Al-Mu'minoon:5-7)

Imam Malik argued that the masturbator is one of those who ‘crave something beyond that.’

On the other hand, it is reported that Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal regarded semen as an excretion of the body like other excrete, and permitted its expulsion the same way blood letting is permitted. Ibn Hazm holds the same view. However, the Hanbali jurists permit masturbation only under two conditions: first, the fear of committing fornication or adultery, and second, not having the means to marry.

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...#ixzz0x9JwRgGi
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Haider_Ali
08-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Those you're right hand's posess. Such as slaves.. do you not think that is wrong? I believe that to be adultery, having sex with a slave if you are married.. if im wrong please correct me, i'm just very confused bhai.

I see both points of view, i do not masturbate during the hours of ramadan Insha'Allah, out of respect. It's at other times i get tempted, and i do believe it stops me committing a bigger sin, and i am not married. I avoid alcohol, i avoid sex, i avoid women, i avoid drugs. Everything else.
Reply

tango92
08-20-2010, 01:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Thanks people.

And is it true if i continue to masturbate i may go to hell?
look at it this way, if you have a genuine intention to quit and take necessary action but still fall into the trap once in a while and then SINCERELY repent. inshallah Allah will forgive you

but there may probably come a point when it becomes difficult to even acknowledge what your doing is a sin, how will you repent then? this is the dwnfall of of many muslims who think theyre sins are not so great. this time you have now is precious when you can discipline yourself. just imagine once your married and have kids what will be the use of quitting then? the real test is for today.

the issue of slaves is beyond my knowledge however, as with islam there is always more than meets the eye behind rulings. in todays age alhumdulillah there is almost no slavery, but back in the day slave trade was like the banking system. people couldnt imagine life without it, so certain allowances had to be made. and Allah knows best
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Haider_Ali
08-20-2010, 04:51 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by tango92
look at it this way, if you have a genuine intention to quit and take necessary action but still fall into the trap once in a while and then SINCERELY repent. inshallah Allah will forgive you

but there may probably come a point when it becomes difficult to even acknowledge what your doing is a sin, how will you repent then? this is the dwnfall of of many muslims who think theyre sins are not so great. this time you have now is precious when you can discipline yourself. just imagine once your married and have kids what will be the use of quitting then? the real test is for today.

the issue of slaves is beyond my knowledge however, as with islam there is always more than meets the eye behind rulings. in todays age alhumdulillah there is almost no slavery, but back in the day slave trade was like the banking system. people couldnt imagine life without it, so certain allowances had to be made. and Allah knows best
"However, the Hanbali jurists permit masturbation only under two conditions: first, the fear of committing fornication or adultery, and second, not having the means to marry."
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-20-2010, 04:59 PM
Salaam bro


Welcome to Islam.

why not marry the girl u love ? U can't have a ' halal' relationship with her until u 2 get married . It's allowed to get married in Ramadan . U can do it on Eid day or after Eid. But pl. try to get rid of the bad habit u mentioned . It's a sin and not allowed also for unmarried.
Reply

tango92
08-20-2010, 05:44 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
"However, the Hanbali jurists permit masturbation only under two conditions: first, the fear of committing fornication or adultery, and second, not having the means to marry."
be sincere with yourself when deciding if you fit those categories.
nonetheless masturbation is tied up with pornography, without pornography im sure you wouldnt need/want to masturbate anyway. and pornography is haram full stop.
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-20-2010, 06:01 PM
Salaam br

format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Those you're right hand's posess. Such as slaves.. do you not think that is wrong? .
It does not matter what we think , the matter is Allah made it halal . So , questioning / challenging God is not a sign of a believer . Pl. be very careful next time before writing such comment. Unwillingly we may talk / write something that may take us out of Islam.

It's better that we must offer our repentance to Allah before death approaches and utter the Shahada whenever possible .

About ur question , it was not a must to have a relationship with war slaves but it was allowed. Polygamy is also a contorversial issue in the west . People may have unlimited sex partner there but men can't have more than one wife. Do u think , it's correct ? People may have different opinions . So , it's better and it's a must for any beleiver to listen to our Creator.
Reply

Zafran
08-20-2010, 06:39 PM
Salaam

Slaves are preety much non existent and today muslims have agreed not to buy and sell slaves or enslave people as it is abolished - so I thing that issue is totaly out of the question. Secodanly as people have said be true to yourself - try not taking - following the desires root.

peace
Reply

syed_z
08-20-2010, 07:13 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Those you're right hand's posess. Such as slaves.. do you not think that is wrong? I believe that to be adultery, having sex with a slave if you are married.. if im wrong please correct me, i'm just very confused bhai.

I see both points of view, i do not masturbate during the hours of ramadan Insha'Allah, out of respect. It's at other times i get tempted, and i do believe it stops me committing a bigger sin, and i am not married. I avoid alcohol, i avoid sex, i avoid women, i avoid drugs. Everything else.


Asalaam O Alaikum Brother Haider... welcome to Islam, May Allah Help you and us Increase our Iman ! Ameen.


About Slaves, the Quran does not mention to have sexual relations with female slave. Rather Quran says...

(4:24) And (forbidden to you are) all married women other than those whom you rightfully possess (through wedlock) this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all (women) beyond these (relationships mentioned in Verse 23), for you to seek out, offering them of your Lawful possessions (i.e dowry) taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication.

Muhammad Asad comments in Message of Quran on following Verse " According to all authorities. Al Muhsanat means "married women". As for the expression ma malakat aymanukum (those whom your right hand possess) i.e those whom you rightfully possess it is often taken to mean female slaves captured in a war in God's cause. The commentators who choose this meaning hold that such slave girls can be taken in marriage irrespective of whether they have husbands in the country of origin or not. However, quite apart from the fundamental differences of opinion, even among companions of the Prophet, regarding the legality of such marriage, some of the most outstanding commentators hold the view that ma malakat aymanukum denotes here "women whom you rightfully possess through wedlock." ;thus Razi in his commentary and Tabari in one of his explanations (going back to Abdullah ibn Abbas , Mujahid and others). Razi in particular, points out that the reference to "all married women" is meant to stress the prohibition of sexual relations with any woman other than one's lawful wife."

The marriage to slaves was to be with only those captured in war, and once they had embraced Islam, not otherwise, and even then you have to marry through a wedlock and not have any kind of relationship without wedlock.

also Verses like which brother tango mentioned in Message of Quran they are interpreted as such...

(23:1) Truly to a happy state shall attain the believers. (2) Those who humble themselves in their prayer (3) and those who turn away from all that is frivolous (4) and who are intent on inner purity (5) and who are mindful of their chastity (6) (not giving away to their desires) with any but their spouses - that is, those whom they rightfully possess (through wedlock) for then behold they are free of all blame.

those whom they rightfully possess (through wedlock)
... again means through legal marriage that believing men and women are included in the word "Believers" in 1st Verse.

Asad has commented in Quran, that Islam prohibits the Institution of slavery (8:67).


About your Habit, in addition to what brothers and sisters have said ....

Prophet Muhammad (saw) prayed a Dua (for believers to Learn) "Oh Allah Purify my Heart from Hypocricy, My tongue from lies, my deeds and actions from Riya (Show off) and My eyes from Wongful Glances."

This dua is recorded in Authentic Traditions, and it might be helpful for you to pray to Allah to help you in this Blessed Month. Ask Allah (swt) sincerely, and repent for these acts that you did, as they are Haraam. Consider this Verse of Quran....

(24:30) Tell the Believing Men to lower their gaze and to be mindful of their chastity: this will be more most inducive to their purity - (and) Verily, God is aware of all that you do!

The reason why Allah (swt) says to "Lower your gaze" and the Prophet recites the Dua to Allah, to purify the eyes from "Wrongful glances", means that Zinah (Adultery) can also be committed by one's eyes!

Since your a revert MashA Allah :)... i don't know if you know the meaning of Whats the Lower Self (Nafs) which is part of our life, and it commands us to commit evil, that is commands us to follow the lower desires, bestiality, vain desires, lust, anger, show off, jealousy, and all such which weakens the morality inside of us. It weaknes our Spirits, as we are actually spiritual beings and not physical. Even though we need, our bodies to work within the Limits of God (shariah) to reach the High Self, i.e be closer to God.


Verily the Nafs (lower self) is a great commander of evil, except that my Lord bestows His Mercy. (Quran 12:53)


These words were said by Prophet Yusuf (a.s) when the wife of the minister tried seducing her, and he sought protection in Allah, or else even he was going to fall for it. But he sought refuge in Allah, rejected her to do wrong and was saved by Mercy of Allah. So this warning is in Quran that warns us to guard ourselves against our lower desires, for they can make us commit evil which make us disobey Allah and fall in to sin. Then we get attached to those sins as our Soul get used to it and every time we come across that temptation we fall for it.

So you need to stop now, before that habit becomes a disease of your Heart.

Some one said Your Eyes are windows to your soul. Our Souls come from God and it is only through them that we can make our conection strong with Allah (swt). Don't weaken you soul for it will be weak, once it leaves your body i.e time of Death.


(87:14) He who purified himself shall prosper


Salaam..
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Haider_Ali
08-20-2010, 07:40 PM
Shukriya brother, i have but one more question.

One thing i am unclear on.. and one thing that makes me question my faith, all be it a tiny bit.

Why does the Quran state that a man may beat his wife?

please explain the reasons behind this.

shukriya brother.
Reply

syed_z
08-20-2010, 08:17 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Shukriya brother, i have but one more question.

One thing i am unclear on.. and one thing that makes me question my faith, all be it a tiny bit.

Why does the Quran state that a man may beat his wife?

please explain the reasons behind this.

shukriya brother.

Koi baat nahee.. Your most welcome...

(4:34) And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them (first); then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and thereupon if they pay you heed , do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, Great!



In Commentary on this Verse, the part of .."Ill Will" implies a deliberate , persistent breach of her marital obligation.

About ... Beat them... Many authentic traditions Prophet (saw) himself detested beating of ones wife , and said on more than one occasion "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave , and then lie with her in the evening ?" (Bukhari and Muslim).

According to another tradition he forbade the beating of any woman with the words "Never beat God's handmaidens." (Abu Daud, Nisai, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and Hakim on the authority of Iyas ibn Abd Allah (r.a), Ibn Hibban on the authority of Abd Allah ibn Abbas and Bayhaqi on the authority of Umm Kulthum)


When the Quranic Verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing and what God has Willed must be best." (Asad Commentary)

With all this he made it clear on the day of Farewell Pilgrimage , shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty , in an abvious manner of immoral conduct." and that it should be done in such a way not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih); traditionscan be found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah etc.

On the basis of above traditions all authorities stress that this "beating" , if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic "with a toothbrush or some such thing." (Tabari) or even with a "folded handkerchief" (Razi).

And some of the Greatest Muslim scholars like Imam Shafi (r.a) are of the opinion that it is barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the Prophet's personal feelings with regard to this problem.

and im sure other Brothers and Sisters can explain it as well, something i missed out on :)

Btw where are you from Originally India or Pakistan ?

Salaam...
Reply

cat eyes
08-20-2010, 09:39 PM
welcome to the forum

so you watch porn and have a girlfriend.

the solution is marriage. stop the excuses. they will be no good in front of Allah. both of you should get married. there is no excuse for you watching porn daily.

to me though it sounds like you have an extreme addiction and once a person is addicted this is when a person will eventually go on to more extreme perverted stuff which is dangerous.

you should seek help for this...because anybody that watches this much porn is surely an addict

please seek help for this because it is not normal..
Reply

'Abd Al-Maajid
08-20-2010, 10:04 PM
Greeting brother...:sl:
First of all, congratulations for you new faith.
My suggestion, get married as soon as possible, I know it is too early for marriage. Masturbation and Porn are very addictive things once you're addicted to these things it will ruin your marriage too if you were married.

I am also just over 21 years (22 years) and I do not masturbate and I never did. I abhor that action...Even my friends say masturbation helps you lower the gaze and control the lust...But even without masturbating Alhumdulillah I never felt those things, the lust and ogling at women...
Reply

أحمد
08-20-2010, 10:29 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Shukriya brother, i have but one more question.

One thing i am unclear on.. and one thing that makes me question my faith, all be it a tiny bit.

Why does the Quran state that a man may beat his wife?

please explain the reasons behind this.

shukriya brother.
The word "beat" may easily be misunderstood to mean "torture", but its not the case here; different translations use slightly different wording to express the meaning.

Sahih International (4:34) "But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

As explained in Syed's post; this beating could be as light and painless as with a handkerchief.

Looking at an example given in the Quran (38:41-44):





And remember Our servant Job, when he called to his Lord, "Indeed, Satan has touched me with hardship and torment."
[So he was told], "Strike [the ground] with your foot; this is a [spring for] a cool bath and drink."
And We granted him his family and a like [number] with them as mercy from Us and a reminder for those of understanding.
[We said], "And take in your hand a bunch [of grass] and strike with it and do not break your oath." Indeed, We found him patient, an excellent servant. Indeed, he was one repeatedly turning back [to Allah ].

Ayyub, peace be upon him, got angry with his wife and was upset about something she had done, so he swore an oath that if Allah healed him, he would strike her with one hundred blows. When Allah healed him, how could her service, mercy, compassion and kindness be repaid with a beating. So Allah showed him a way out, which was to take a bundle of thin grass, with one hundred stems, and hit her with it once. Thus he fulfilled his oath and avoided breaking his vow. This was the solution and way out for one who had Taqwa of Allah and turned to Him in repentance.

:wa:
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Muslim Woman
08-21-2010, 04:29 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Haider_Ali
Why does the Quran state that a man may beat his wife?



.
there is a thread on it . A Christian sis asked this question and she ended up by embracing Islam :D

Alhamdulillah.
Reply

أحمد
08-21-2010, 04:45 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam



there is a thread on it . A Christian sis asked this question and she ended up by embracing Islam :D

Alhamdulillah.
:Alhumdill

If possible, please post a link.

جزاك الله خيراً

:wa:
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-21-2010, 04:50 AM
Salaam

format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmed Waheed
:sl:



:Alhumdill

If possible, please post a link.

جزاك الله خيراً

:wa:

her name was Chris. It's about 2 yrs back. After that , several changes took place in the forum and forum has lost many posts including threads . So , I have to see if that thread is still here .
Reply

أحمد
08-21-2010, 04:56 AM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by Muslim Woman
Salaam




her name was Chris. It's about 2 yrs back. After that , several changes took place in the forum and forum has lost many posts including threads . So , I have to see if that thread is still here .
That probably explains why my search didn't find it. I've been away for a few years, so I have missed out on "a few" discussions.

:wa:
Reply

MSalman
08-21-2010, 10:59 AM
as-salaam alaykum

Bismillah

@syed_z

It's month of ramadan and I hate to do this. Please my brother be careful about taking information from anyone. Such understanding regarding salves is corrupt modernist understanding who are ashamed of their religion; hence, in order to appease the kuffaar they twist the meaning and wordings to push forward their agenda. We don't learn our deen from heretic Assad. May Allah protect us all from these dajjal within our ummah and may Allah destroy the enemies of Islam, ameen

@Haider_Ali

Welcome to Islam my brother :) *smile, it's sunnah*. May Allah keep you steadfast and make everything easier for you, ameen. My 2 cents:

1 - Do lots of good deeds & make lots of dua'a
2 - Keep yourself busy with other halal things; when you feel the urge, recite the Qur'an or read a book or something like that (something which will fill your hear with imaan). Or memorize an ayaah which strikes your heart and keep repeating it while pondering over its meaning.
3 - As the Salaf used to say, don't look at the significance of the sin but the significance of the One you're disobeying.
4 - Imagine what will happen if you die in that state or die before repenting.

Read this, this and this insha'Allah

As far your question about slavery, once we have established belief in Allah, worshipping him only and understand the meaning of being a Muslim, then the secondary issues and questions like "why" do not matter. Because we believe that Allah is most just and most wise; hence, there's no room for questioning why He has made something halal while others haraam. He is our Lord and this is the world He created; He does whatever He pleases. On topic, slaves in Islam are prisoners of war (POW), which is permissible in Islam regardless of time period. Islam provided a practice solution for POW instead of throwing them into prison dungeons. Islam allows a Muslim male to have physical relationship with his female slave. You could also go through threads on slavery here and insha'Allah they will be helpful.

and Allah knows best
Reply

syed_z
08-21-2010, 12:40 PM
heretic Assad
He quotes Tabari, Razi and Great Imam Shafi ... and you call him Heretic ? What proof do you have that after embracing Islam and writing Great commentary of Quran which was made easy for many to understand Islam better and accept Islam, that you call him Heretic ?

Im sorry to say brother, but you remind me of those ignorant Muslims who called Dr Zakir Naik a "Kafir" when he called Yazeed ibn Muawiya "may Allah be pleased with him"... since then he is being maligned every where.

Whoa may We seek refuge in Allah from saying such about Great Scholars of Islam. Reminds me of this Verse brother for you to recite...and think

(49:6) Believers, when an ungodly person brings to you a piece of news, carefully ascertain its truth, lest you should hurt a people unwittingly and thereafter repent at what you did.

If you called him an agent of Dajjals System (I.e New World Order) then please go ahead and prove that he is a "heretic" and an Agent ? If you have no proof, would you beleive that what you said was a very big word for a Muslim , whom you declared to be a non Muslim based on suspicion ?

(49:12) Believers, avoid being excessively suspicious, for some suspicion is a sin.


Now i would actually like you to prove it to me that he was an agent and/or heretic ? And how was he heretic ?

(49:11) Believers, let not a group (of men) scoff at another group, it may well be that the latter (at whom they scoff) are better than they...



Please do provide proof that he was an agent of the Western, Dajjal system ?

May Allah guide us all in the month of Ramadaan.
Reply

Muslim Woman
08-21-2010, 01:51 PM
Salaam Alaykum;

pl. my respected Muslim brothers , don't start any debate in the forum in this holy month . Postponed it till Eid. Also , these are off topic here.
Reply

أحمد
08-21-2010, 02:19 PM
:sl:

format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
He quotes Tabari, Razi and Great Imam Shafi ... and you call him Heretic ? What proof do you have that after embracing Islam and writing Great commentary of Quran which was made easy for many to understand Islam better and accept Islam, that you call him Heretic ?

Im sorry to say brother, but you remind me of those ignorant Muslims who called Dr Zakir Naik a "Kafir" when he called Yazeed ibn Muawiya "may Allah be pleased with him"... since then he is being maligned every where.

Whoa may We seek refuge in Allah from saying such about Great Scholars of Islam. Reminds me of this Verse brother for you to recite...and think

(49:6) Believers, when an ungodly person brings to you a piece of news, carefully ascertain its truth, lest you should hurt a people unwittingly and thereafter repent at what you did.

If you called him an agent of Dajjals System (I.e New World Order) then please go ahead and prove that he is a "heretic" and an Agent ? If you have no proof, would you beleive that what you said was a very big word for a Muslim , whom you declared to be a non Muslim based on suspicion ?

(49:12) Believers, avoid being excessively suspicious, for some suspicion is a sin.


Now i would actually like you to prove it to me that he was an agent and/or heretic ? And how was he heretic ?

(49:11) Believers, let not a group (of men) scoff at another group, it may well be that the latter (at whom they scoff) are better than they...



Please do provide proof that he was an agent of the Western, Dajjal system ?

May Allah guide us all in the month of Ramadaan.
Do not reply to any post, which is aimed at arguing. Your earlier post was very useful as an answer to Brother Haider's question; don't let anyone turn this thread into a cyber-battlefield. Remember one thing, there are always people who look for even the smallest bit of negativity in others, so that they may emphasise it. Brother islamiclife made a list of useful points in his post; it would avoid arguments to reply to the good points in his post, rather than replying to an argument. This isn't a debating thread, we must try to keep ourselves aware of this :inshallah

:wa:
Reply

syed_z
08-21-2010, 05:33 PM
I am sorry and i apologize... i do not aim and my intention is not to start any debates... Allah (swt) is my witness. However i just saw a Muslim being called heretic and wanted the brother to know and understand , what are the dangers of calling other Muslims heretic, while we don't even have any evidence and specially when he had served the Ummah.

Just wanted to remind of What Allah (swt) has said , if we suspect or blame or say anything wrong about Muslim brothers/sisters.

This is one of the diseases which have plagued the Ummah today is, we have no tolerance and we are quick to blame each other disbelievers.

If i have broken any rules, i apologize again. May Allah for give me.

Salaam..


P:S Not till eid either... my intention is not to debate with any Muslim Brother/sister..however i think it is also a duty of each muslim Muslimah to point out and correct the one who is making a serious mistake, which can affect our Iman and Islam.
Reply

MSalman
08-21-2010, 08:17 PM
as-salaam alaykum

subhaanAllah *big smile* I clearly mentioned that I'm hating to say what I said regarding that, which is an indication that I do not want to argue or to drag it on during this month or hijack this thread. It was nothing more than a sincere naseeha to my brother. It's an obligation upon us to do whatever we can to best of our abilities to stop the munkar. This is our deen, not a child's play. We can't let anybody hijack it under the disguise of Muslim names.

brother syed, it seems you don't know who this man is and his hidden agenda. We can discuss it in length after the month of Ramadan, insha'Allah

May Allah guide us all, keep us on haqq and let us die as Muslims, ameen
Reply

جوري
08-21-2010, 08:22 PM
this is what you were probably looking for sis?

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...tml#post711125

Wife beating




| Home Page | Email | LIVE Broadcasts | Order Tapes, Videos & CDs | EZ-Islam |
| Free Quran |
Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.


Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.

Reply

جوري
08-21-2010, 08:22 PM
this is what you were probably looking for sis?

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...tml#post711125

Wife beating



| Home Page | Email | LIVE Broadcasts | Order Tapes, Videos & CDs | EZ-Islam |
| Free Quran |
Author:
Br. Estes

RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"

Question:
Could you please tell me why the Quran tells men to "beat them" meaning their wives? (chapter 4, verse 34)

Answer:
Thank you for asking about Islam. It is our committment to try our best to provide answers to questions to the best of our ability. However, sometimes we come across questions for which we do not have answers. In this case we will refer you to others who may be able to provide you with proper answers.

Please be aware that we as Muslims, must never lie about anything, especially our religion.

Secondly, we do have the original text of the Quran and the preserved teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him. This enables us to verify exactly what was said, intended and taught by Muhammad, peace be upon him, as being the religion of Islam.

Third, I would like to remind myself and all who read this in the future that not all questions are purely questions. Some contain statements and implications, that may or may not be true.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind anytime we discover something in the answers to actually be better than what we already have, we should be committed to change our position and accept that which is true over that which is false and take that which is better for that which is inferior.

After taking all of the above into consideration, if we find that the answer to this question provides us with a better approach to understanding what Almighty God has provided us with as a way of life on this earth and in the Next Life, we should then make the logical decsion to begin to worship Him on His terms.

Having said that, let us now look to the particular verse in question in the original text (Arabic), followed by the phonetic sounds in Latin letters and then finally, followed by a translation of the meaning to the English language by experts in both Arabic and in Quranic meanings.


Transliteration
Alrrijalu qawwamoona AAala alnnisa-i bima faddala Allahu baAAdahum AAala baAAdin wabima anfaqoo min amwalihim faalssalihatu qanitatun hafithatun lilghaybi bima hafitha Allahu waallatee takhafoona nushoozahunna faAAithoohunna waohjuroohunna fee almadajiAAi waidriboohunna fa-in ataAAnakum fala tabghoo AAalayhinna sabeelan inna Allaha kana AAaliyyan kabeeran

Explanation (tafsir) of Sura 4:34
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Meaning of the Words
For the three words fa'izu, wahjaru, and wadribu in the original, translated here ‘speak to them in a persuasive manner’, ‘leave them alone (in bed - fi'l-madage'),’ and ‘have intercourse’, respectively, see Raghib Lisan al-'Arab and Zamakhsari. Raghib in his Al-Mufridat fi Gharib al-Qur'an gives the meanings of these words with special reference to this verse. Fa-'izu, he says, means to 'to talk to them so persuasively as to melt their hearts.'
(See also v.63 of this Surah where it has been used in a similar sense.)
Hajara - Wahjaru (do not touch or moleste them)
Hajara, he says, means to separate body from body, and points out that the expression wahjaru hunna metaphorically means to refrain from touching or molesting them. Zamakhshari is more explicit in his Kshshaf when he says, 'do not get inside their blankets.'
Here is the translation of meaning of the verse as best can be defined according to the rules of understanding Quran with the explanations following this translation:
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). Regarding women guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.”

Let me begin by explaining the English language is not powerful enough when it comes to translating the meanings of the Arabic of the Quran. Nor for that matter, is any other language on earth. So, all we have is translations of meanings according to the best understanding of the translators.

The operative word in this verse in Arabic is "daraba." While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from "tap" to "walk in stride" to "strike at something" to "set a clear example", the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.

Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)

Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, 'the stud camel covered the she-camel,' which is also quoted by Lisan al-'Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean 'to strike them (women).' This view is strengthened by the Prophet's authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" There are other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: "Never beat God's handmaidens."

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean "set forth" or "sets up for you" or "makes known to you" - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra'd (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word "yadirbu" is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse: Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi
“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi
“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum
“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..
“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
In fact, the word daraba has not been translated to mean (beat) or (hit) or (strike) in any other verse of the Quran except this one.
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..
"..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity."

And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
"This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses."

As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).
Verses 34 and 35 in Surah An-Nisaa' need to be read together to understand this is the proper relationship between men and women in general and husband and wife specifically.

Islam seeks to hold the family together and to make peace and reconciliation between spouses. The next verse makes it clear what to do in the case where it seems that divorce may be the result of the uncorrected bad behavior. It stresses appointing arbitrators from both sides and seeks reconciliation.

The first part of 34 deals with all men taking care of all women. Then goes on to explain the wife's proper obedience to Allah because He is the One Who has ordained this relationship of provision and protection for her and to be appreciative and respectful of her husband, guarding herself and his property in his absence. The man is told the proper way to behave when he finds his wife not complying with decency and proper behavior of a Muslim wife. He has a direct order to begin with admonishing her and then if there is compliance to leave her be and don't give her a hard time about it.

However, if this continues, he should not have sex with her and this makes it clear to her that he is most serious and this not a joke. Again, if she comes around then he is to let it go and not bother her about it. Finally, if she still insists on such lewdness and bad conduct, he is to make it clear to her in no uncertain terms that they are going to be heading for separation or even divorce unless she comes back to proper behavior. Again, if she complies, then he should not bring it up and return to the bed with her.
And of course, this is all in an effort to translate one short but powerful phrase from Arabic to English. The sources are quoted herein and there may be other interpretations but the only acceptable ones are those based on the teachings of the Quran and the prophet, peace be upon him.
And as always, Allahu 'Alim (Allah is the Knower)

Source: al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79

In the past, some translators of this verse have mistakeningly used the word "beat" or "hit" or even "scourge" (as in the case of an old translation) to represent the word "daraba" in Arabic. This is not the opinion of all scholars especially Raghib and Zamakhshari as mentioned above and those who are well grounded in both Islam understanding and the English language.
34.
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill*conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great.
The understanding now is that some of the translations are not properly representing the spirit of the meaning. Therefore, they cannot be considered to be the representation of what has been intended by Almighty God.

Now we can properly understand that Almighty God has commanded the men to provide for the women and allow them to keep all of their wealth, inheritance and income without demanding anything from them for support and maintenance. Additionally, if she should be guilty of lewd or indecent conduct, the husband is told to first, admonish her and then if she would cease this lewdness. If she should continue in this indecency, then he should no longer share the bed with her, and this would continue for a period of time. Finally, if she would repent then he would take up sharing the bed with her again.

And Allah is All Knowing of the meanings.

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hopeful19
09-26-2010, 03:12 PM
Regarding slavery, i myself am considering converting, but i also know that may muslims believe there is a holy war going on right now, which means if they feel my conversion if more of a surrender, i would be open to being enslaved. It is not my right to choose how muslims may view my conversion One thing i have always read is that slaves are treated really well.
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جوري
09-26-2010, 03:26 PM
Where did you come up with you being enslaved? and who has a right to judge your intentions or heart if you are a Muslim?
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hopeful19
09-26-2010, 04:08 PM
i am not a muslim, i am considering converting, all i was stating is if muslims saw my conversion as a form of surrender i would understand the need for a form of punishement
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جوري
09-26-2010, 04:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeful19
i am not a muslim, i am considering converting, all i was stating is if muslims saw my conversion as a form of surrender i would understand the need for a form of punishement
and what I am saying is, no Muslim has a right to judge your conversion.. I mean unless you are actively committing treacherous acts while feigning being a Muslim.
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hopeful19
09-26-2010, 04:36 PM
i understand, thats sort of what i am saying as well, in my quest for conversion, i would simply tell me story to a muslim preacher and let him judge my conversion since i don;t understand what may or may not constitute feigning
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جوري
09-26-2010, 04:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeful19
i understand, thats sort of what i am saying as well, in my quest for conversion, i would simply tell me story to a muslim preacher and let him judge my conversion since i don;t understand what may or may not constitute feigning
Dear member I am telling you that no one (not even a preacher) has a right to judge your conversion, that is between you and God.
Someone who feigns, is someone actively allaying with the enemy to kill Muslims, or causing 'fitna' tribulations, that is in fact considered worse than war.. what that constitutes is for instance, going to an Islamic region, setting a bomb, and then pinning it on another Muslim group to cause dissent and not because of fact, in that case the truth must be verified by knowledgeable people .. surely you must know instinctively what it means to be a traitor by the virtue of the definition. undermining those of whom you are a part of by deceit and none other!

peace
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Woodrow
09-27-2010, 03:48 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hopeful19
i am not a muslim, i am considering converting, all i was stating is if muslims saw my conversion as a form of surrender i would understand the need for a form of punishement
Quite a few of us on this forum are reverts, some fairly recent. We are as much Muslim as those who have lived their entire life as Muslims and a person who reverts this very second or any time in the future is as much Muslim as every Muslim living today, yesterday or tomorrow. Being Muslim has no concept of when one became Muslim, that is of no importance. A person is either Muslim or not Muslim. No other distinction is needed.
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alikhan786
09-28-2010, 05:12 PM
dear brother,
i clearly understand what you are going through as i have gone through the same and have AlhamdulliALAH conqured this habit to 99 percent by Grace of Almighty.I face many difficulties and am still in constant battle with nafs and shaitan but i have few tips that will really help you.
1.Always remain in wuzu never let wuzu break.
2.Always recite small salawat.at all times such as Sallah Allah hu alay wa Alahi wasallam.trust me it has helped many a person leave this habit.as you recite salawat then the mercy of Allah descends on you to extinguish the fires of nafs and those of satanic nature as the rehmat of Allah descends on person reciting salawat.make it a habit..its easier then you know...very easy once it becomes a habit.
3.Please please foresake all frnds...groups ..gatherings that take you to this habit..i know you will become isolated........but its the way its is...i have also had to go through this.find gud muslim frnds or social cirlce around you.
4.Reduce time spend on internet..go to mosque instead....make plans some halal food place go with brothers...start new sport...pick some tough sport...rugby..football...boxing...this really helps...as when you are looking forward to some match..tournament...you will focus your energy there.
5.TV is the most useless creation..no doubt the root of many evils...no good use watching it..
6.Start visiting places of natural beauty..mountains..lakes...gardens...appreciate the beauty of His creations....spend atleast an hour there...
7.5 times prayers in mosque....quran recitation time fixed everyday...

well.....this all has really helped me...but its a challenge...i treat it like a battle..between forces of truth and falsehood :)
i pray you succeed in this test,Ameen.
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