Islam & polygamy

[nour elhoda]

Now we can see how islam is being attacked, & one of the most important aspects that is criticized is Islam’s permission of polygamy. Now I just want to illustrate logically the relation between islam & polygamy, and the rules concern to this idea:


1- Islam didn't introduce polygamy for the first time when it came
2- Polygamy was there long before Islam even in the Bible other prophets were known to be polygamists such as Dawoud, Ibrahim and Solomon.



2- No text in the Quran or sunna states that polygamy or monogamy is the norm.
Demographic data indicates that monogamy is the norm and polygamy is an exception.
It may be very practical to states polygamy as a norm as the norm when women's number exceeds the man's. So instead of having so many spinsters, it can give these women a chance to live a normal life.
A British girl once in T.V program called" dear sir", she said that " she asks to legislate polygamy as she prefers a shared marriage life than loneliness"

3- Islam didn't outlaw polygamy but regulated and restricted it. It's neither required nor encouraged its only permitted not outlawed.

4- The only mention of polygamy in the Quran is in the verse revealed after the war of Auhud as it left behind a great number of widows and orphans. So it was so practical to permit this idea to provide a moral and human solution to the problem of widows and orphans who need the father figure to look after their needs.
So why do people look at it as a permission to man to satisfy their desires only???

5- Islam which permitted polygamy also restricted it and put a certain condition for a man to marry again which is ti state justice between his wives. If the man is not able to deal justly with them so he is not allowed to do so.
Moreover, the wives either the first or the second one are free to accept or reject this.


(There is an important point to be mentioned here which is that yes

Isam permitted polygamy but not polyandry "having many husbands"
To avoid the problem related to the lineal identity of children.

[FS123]

So why do people look at it as a permission to man to satisfy their desires only???

I think, tradition got hay-wired. People forget that Allah also states: "You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire..." [4:129]
^^ above verse is pretty much discouraging for me, and I saw what it means in the above verse first hand.

Another point, Allah only made Adam (pbuh) and Hawa, if Adam needed more women then he would have made 2 or more women for Adam (pbuh).

So it seems like it is allowed out of necessity in certain socio-economic situations, but it is discouraged.

[nour elhoda]

I think, tradition got hay-wired. People forget that Allah also states: "You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire..." [4:129].

So it seems like it is allowed out of necessity in certain socio-economic situations, but it is discouraged.

yes you are right
that is exactly what i mean

if we look at this from the point of view of those people at the time of prophet Muhammed PBUH
we will find that its not a permission but it is a restriction

as at that time, the number of wives was unlimited & women had no right at all
Islam came to restrict that

saying that under certain conditions you can marry more than one but with one condition which is " the perfect justice"
and since this condition is very difficult , so no one will do this unless there is a necessity

so Islam restricted the idea of polygamy not the opposite

[Perseveranze]

Saw a Dr. Naik talk about this, he made a good point that in this world, there are more women then there are men, he said some statistics which seemed to be true. He then made the point that all these women would not be able to find a partner in life and that Islam (along with it's strict rules/regulations regarding polygamy) is helping solve this issue.

I don't know much about this though.

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[Muslimman]

Is it logic to attack polygamy while legalizing prostitution? :)

[nour elhoda]

Saw a Dr. Naik talk about this, he made a good point that in this world, there are more women then there are men, he said some statistics which seemed to be true. He then made the point that all these women would not be able to find a partner in life and that Islam (along with it's strict rules/regulations regarding polygamy) is helping solve this issue.

I don't know much about this though.

yes , He is right , that is may be one of many benefits of this permission

i remember once , i read about an english young lady talking in one TV show & she was asking those in authority to allow polygamy as she prefers a shared marriage life than loneliness........... so yes if we tried to imagine the lonely life of those spinsters we may be able to understand

[YusufNoor]

:sl:

Brother Yusuf Estes gave a great lecture on polyginy in his "lifting the Fog" series on youtube. he made a rather remarkable point that i often use, but 1st consider:

a )there are more men than women [except maybe in China where they still kill babies born female- nowuthubillah]

b) a married state is preferable as:

1) someone has to take care of the sisters
2) a lawful means of partnership

that being said, the brother gave this example:

lets say you have 100 sisters and 100 brothers, all single.

they get paired and marry until 5 sisters and 5 brothers are left.

consider...

the 5 remaining brothers may ONLY marry from the remaining 5 sisters

BUT

what about the 5 remaining sisters?

has it sunk in yet?

sister #96 still has a choice of ALL 100 brothers!

but how can it be that we have all missed Allah's wisdom in this?

now, of course Brother Estes goes on to describe how that sister could converse with the other wives and see who might be the best choice. the focus was on what is best for the sisters, NOT some misguided male superiority crap.

SADLY, what we all miss is that Rasulullah STRESSED the IMPORTANCE of being good to your family!

i'm NOT saying that as Muslim men we have exhibited the qualities of deserving ONE good wife, let alone 2 or more! i'm saying that Allah and His Messenger have delivered to us a means to solve all of our problems. we just haven't proved equal to the task...

:wa:

[FS123]

Is it logic to attack polygamy while legalizing prostitution? :)

1. Not an attack on polygamy.
2. Not legalizing prostitution.

[Santoku]

:sl:

Brother Yusuf Estes gave a great lecture on polyginy in his "lifting the Fog" series on youtube. he made a rather remarkable point that i often use, but 1st consider:

a )there are more men than women [except maybe in China where they still kill babies born female- nowuthubillah]

b) a married state is preferable as:

1) someone has to take care of the sisters
2) a lawful means of partnership

that being said, the brother gave this example:

lets say you have 100 sisters and 100 brothers, all single.

they get paired and marry until 5 sisters and 5 brothers are left.

consider...

the 5 remaining brothers may ONLY marry from the remaining 5 sisters

BUT

what about the 5 remaining sisters?

has it sunk in yet?

sister #96 still has a choice of ALL 100 brothers!

but how can it be that we have all missed Allah's wisdom in this?

now, of course Brother Estes goes on to describe how that sister could converse with the other wives and see who might be the best choice. the focus was on what is best for the sisters, NOT some misguided male superiority crap.

SADLY, what we all miss is that Rasulullah STRESSED the IMPORTANCE of being good to your family!

i'm NOT saying that as Muslim men we have exhibited the qualities of deserving ONE good wife, let alone 2 or more! i'm saying that Allah and His Messenger have delivered to us a means to solve all of our problems. we just haven't proved equal to the task...

:wa:

What if the sister wants to take care of herself?

But back to seriousness, the imbalance generally happens later in life as women live longer than men. So will your strapping young 20 year old brother be in the market for an 80 year old wife? Perhaps he might have to as women being the practical souls that they are the women will go for the man with the better ability to care for her say a nice older richer man, who will look after her without making too many demands on her. That leaves the other brothers short. Let us take the example you gave. 100 sisters 100 brothers. Sister 1 marries brother 1 up to number 25, then sister 26 decides for whateverreason to marry brother 1 as does number 27 and 28.End result you get from 1 to 75 brothers who have no wives....... what do they do?

[Muslimman]

1. Not an attack on polygamy.
2. Not legalizing prostitution.

No Bro I dont mean you at all :). I meant Western Civilization :)

[Peakur]

Let's just point out that Islam is not the only religion which allows polygamy. If you look at Mormons in Utah, they even encourage it and have very loose limits on the number of wives one man could have.

[nour elhoda]

Let's just point out that Islam is not the only religion which allows polygamy. If you look at Mormons in Utah, they even encourage it and have very loose limits on the number of wives one man could have.

yes you are right even in the Bible there was nothing that forbids polygamy or even limit the number of wives , & that was forbidden after that by the church without depending on any thing in the bible or lets say the original one

[YusufNoor]

What if the sister wants to take care of herself?

who says she can't?

But back to seriousness, the imbalance generally happens later in life as women live longer than men. So will your strapping young 20 year old brother be in the market for an 80 year old wife?

perhaps you are unaware of family structures within Islam, in which the children take care of their parents when they get older? BUT, sans children, YES! someone should merry her and take care of her.

Perhaps he might have to as women being the practical souls that they are the women will go for the man with the better ability to care for her say a nice older richer man, who will look after her without making too many demands on her.

so?

That leaves the other brothers short. Let us take the example you gave. 100 sisters 100 brothers. Sister 1 marries brother 1 up to number 25, then sister 26 decides for whateverreason to marry brother 1 as does number 27 and 28.End result you get from 1 to 75 brothers who have no wives....... what do they do?

so you have such a high opinion of Muslim men that you think that they ALL will have 4 wives in due time? really?

then all we need to do is convert your wives, sisters, mothers, aunties and daughters to Islam! in that case, it leaves only kuffars short, eh?

peace

[Santoku]

so you have such a high opinion of Muslim men that you think that they ALL will have 4 wives in due time? really?

then all we need to do is convert your wives, sisters, mothers, aunties and daughters to Islam! in that case, it leaves only kuffars short, eh?

peace

Let us consider:-
Who says women cannot look after themselves - Brother Yusuf Estes does. Did he not say someone has to look after the sisters point b subpoint 1.

Now your second point.He says that there is an imbalance in the number of men and women and I pointed out that this only occurs late in life as women live longer than men. So that means if marriage is regarded as a way of alleviating this imbalance then these elderly ladies must be considered for marriage with younger men.

And your final point yes that is what Mohammed set up with his differing marriage rules for men and women. However Brother Estes set up a theoretical situation with his 100 men and 100 women but whatyou did not take into account is that it may not get to number 95 before the women start looking to the better man logically they will start looking at number 1 and start polygamous scenarios from number 2.

[selsebil]

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,
Jazakallahu Khair for sharing!

The Glorious Qur’an advises firstly monogamy. However, it commands justice in the circumstances when polygamy becomes necessary as a result of conditions.

Besides, Islam did not increase the number from one to two or three, but decreased it from higher numbers to lower ones. As the number of women is more than that of men, by this way a legitimate way is opened to women.

On the other hand, there are the facts that man’s sexual desire continues for long until old age, that woman’s desires stop early, that in certain months she is in the menstrual period and that sometimes she becomes pregnant thus being unable to involve in intercourse. Considering all these, the dimensions of the issue will be better understood.

[Santoku]

On the other hand, there are the facts that man’s sexual desire continues for long until old age, that woman’s desires stop early,

Actually a woman enjoys sex for just as long and perhaps longer than a man, and is able to enjoy sex to a greater age, although she may require artificial lubrication.

, that in certain months she is in the menstrual period .

Unless she is pregnant or past meanopause it is every month,and here is a little known fact,when women live in close proximity their menstual cycles harmonise, i.e. they get their periods at the same time.

she becomes pregnant thus being unable to involve in intercourse.

Actually a woman can indulge in sex until quite late in the pregnancy, if she and her partner are carefu and he is consideratel.

Considering all these, the dimensions of the issue will be better understood.

By all means consider them but consider them factually.

[Ali Mujahidin]

As salaam mualaikum.

Speaking from personal experience, it is near impossible to be fair to all your wives. Let's say you have two wives, one fat and one thin. You want to buy each of them a piece of cloth to make a dress. You are now faced with an insoluble dilemma:

1. If you buy, say, 3 meters of cloth for each of them, the fat wife would not have enough to make a dress, while the thin wife would have nearly enough to make two dresses. Doesn't sound fair, does it?

2. If you buy, say, 4.5 meters of cloth for the fat wife and 1.5 meters of cloth for the thin wife, the thin wife will say that you have given more cloth to the other wife. Still not quite fair, is it?

3. If you buy, say, 4.5 meters of cloth for the fat wife and 1.5 meters of cloth for the thin wife plus give her, say, $10 which is the difference in price between the 4.5 and 1.5 meters of cloth, the fat wife will say that she only got a piece of cloth from you but the other wife got a piece of cloth plus money, too. Being fair is getting to be fairly confusing, right?

Any brother thinking about getting more than one wife should seriously think hard about this question of justice. Don't think that you can take the easy way out by getting two wives of the same size. After a few years and a few children, they will still end up being different sizes and you are back to the same insoluble dilemma.

Hope this is useful. Insha Allah.

[nour elhoda]

Any brother thinking about getting more than one wife should seriously think hard about this question of justice. Don't think that you can take the easy way out by getting two wives of the same size. After a few years and a few children, they will still end up being different sizes and you are back to the same insoluble dilemma.

.

thanks brother for your reply
& with all my respect to your words, justice is not to buy for each of them the same thing , its rather to buy for each one what she needs

& i totally agree with you that taking this step is not an easy one , & a man should think twice before that because Allah yes gives us that permission but under one & difficult condition which is justice & if we read the teachings of prophet Muhammed PBUH & his companions we will understand how it was difficult to achieve that justice,,, so if one is not sure 100% that he will be fair so dont do that

[Ami]

There are more women in the world. Men are usually the ones who go to war and these things that is why there is baby booms after war. That aside there are some men who can treat wives equally and there are some women who do not mind sharing their husband. I am not one of them but it doesn't mean they are wrong.

[Little_Lion]

Quick clarification: the mainstream Mormon Church has outlawed polygamy since 1904, as part of their Second Manifesto. Only the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints continue to follow polygamy.

Carry on. :)

[S_87]

Ok lets look at this a different way

Lets say a woman is independent, doesnt need a man to financially support her, looks good is healthy etc etc.

In the West not all such women who are 'potentially great wives' are married. Many have to resort to being mistresses to married men 'a dirty little secret' for whatever reason. Its a fact its HAPPENING. Now someone may say, not every woman is like that-and i totally agree. but there are those women like that, if someone says they havent seen or heard of it then they are lying


at thisoldman
Allah knows best but that is more pettyness than justness.

Now in Islam, theres not space for our sisters to be dirty secrets, if a man and a woman are attracted then Allah gave the woman the rights to have a man in an honourable way. MARRIAGE.

[nour elhoda]

There are more women in the world. Men are usually the ones who go to war and these things that is why there is baby booms after war. That aside there are some men who can treat wives equally and there are some women who do not mind sharing their husband. I am not one of them but it doesn't mean they are wrong.

you are totally right , and thats why the permission of polygamy is a great bless from Allah that solves many problems

[nour elhoda]

Quick clarification: the mainstream Mormon Church has outlawed polygamy since 1904, as part of their Second Manifesto. Only the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints continue to follow polygamy.

Carry on. :)

yes totally true .....polygamy is not something initialed in islam , it exists in all the holy religions & it was stopped in christianity under the commands of the church



thaaaank you so much

[nour elhoda]

Ok lets look at this a different way

Lets say a woman is independent, doesnt need a man to financially support her, looks good is healthy etc etc.

In the West not all such women who are 'potentially great wives' are married. Many have to resort to being mistresses to married men 'a dirty little secret' for whatever reason. Its a fact its HAPPENING. Now someone may say, not every woman is like that-and i totally agree. but there are those women like that, if someone says they havent seen or heard of it then they are lying


at thisoldman
Allah knows best but that is more pettyness than justness.

Now in Islam, theres not space for our sisters to be dirty secrets, if a man and a woman are attracted then Allah gave the woman the rights to have a man in an honourable way. MARRIAGE.

yes that is really happening

i remember once in one of the TV shows one american girl was asking for approving that law of polygamy as she said " I prefer i shared marriage life than loneliness"


and nowadays the European countries suffer from many social devices that stem from that dirty secret affairs

[nour elhoda]

moreover, in Christianity , if you read the bible the 4 versions you would find mention of other prophets who had up to 70 wives like Solomon .

polygamy existed in Judaism, The Old Testament mentions plural marriage as an acceptable variation for the Hebrews, and many of the

Abrahamic prophets and patriarchs had multiple wives, including Lamech, Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Gideon, Saul, David, Solomon, Rehoboam,

Elkanah, Ashur, Abijah and Jehoiada. Some interpretations also suggest Moses had a second wife in Tharbis.

Polygamy was not banned in the Jewish community until about 1000CE by Rabbi Gershom.


polygamy did exist in the bible and in Christianity , it was allowed until it was forbidden by the Roman Catholic church


In the 16th century, there was a Christian re-examination of plural marriages. The founder of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther wrote:

"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than

one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case

the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."[20]



so islam didnt introduce polygamy for the first time

[ayesha.ansari]

Well this all conversation is so confusing. Islam allow every thing to be neat and legal not to make some thing illegal and problomatic for the society. SO what ever people think about Islam better is to study what Quran says about it and What you think is right .

[Mister Agenda]

I think the laws against polygamy in the USA are too strict. We took about 12,000 Bantu refugees from Somalia; but if a man had more than one wife, he had to divorce all but one or he and his family could not come here. This is such a hardship, disrupting the existing marriage arrangements. I think an exception should be made for immigrants, or at least refugee immigrants. Refugees by definition are in a desperate situation, a regular immigrant might just decide not to come because of the restriction; a refugee might think he must do this to save the lives of his children.

I don't have so much of an issue with the law against marrying more than one person in the USA, but the law requires divorce even if you were married legally to two or more people in another country.

[Ramadhan]

Some of the positive effects of polygamy (remember, I am saying polygamy within Islamic context, where the husband must be fair and just to all his wives) is keeping marriages and family units intact, which can only be good for individuals and society in general (and please also note that in Islam, divorce IS allowed, there's even a whole surat devoted to regulate the matters of divorce).

ironically, in the west, polygamy is illegal, while at the same time, most men are having extramarital relationships to the detriments of family units and the inevitable break down of family units and ties that result from them. And in such extramarital relationships, usually it is the woman who become victims and whose rights or their potential children's rights not guaranteed. Contrast that to a marriage where everyone rights is honored.

I don't have so much of an issue with the law against marrying more than one person in the USA,

I thought that as an atheist you would have been against anti polygamy law as it actually is based on christian norm which has no scientific basis, and the law actually infringe on the rights of individuals especially since everyone involved (husband, wives) agree on their own account of entering into polygamous marriage.