format_quote Originally Posted by
*Hana*
Salam Alaikum:
I would simply ask him why it would be necessary to have a biological son? He will probably say to forgive sins or something like that. Then ask him again why He would need to do that and if He can do anything, why does he feel God is incapable of forgiving sin on His own rather than slaughtering an innocent, sinless man that wasn't even accepted by His people. He wasn't accepted by the "lost sheep of the house of Isreal" but He sacrificed him anyway so they could be forgiven of sin??? Really?? Doesn't sound very majestic to me. Just sayin' :)
The Christian argument goes that God came as Jesus; he was sinless and died on the cross, and was compensated by being brought back to life and in addition getting all of mankind’s sins wiped away. Technically, Jesus shouldn’t have been compensated for anything. the idea of Jesus dying for our sins is baseless.
God, in the Hebrew (Old) Testament has had many situations where he commands atrocities and then repents for the actions committed.
In II Samuel 24:15-16 after 70,000 people are killed, and God puts an end to the command and repents for this great disaster.
II Samuel 24:15-16
15 So the LORD sent a plague on Israel from that morning until the end of the time designated, and
seventy thousand of the people from Dan to Beersheba died.
16 When the angel stretched out his hand to destroy Jerusalem;
the LORD was grieved because of the calamity and said to the angel who was afflicting the people, Enough! Withdraw your hand. The angel of the LORD was then at the threshing-floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
So as we read here after the 70,000 people were killed, the God of the bible repents and puts an end to the calamity.
Who knew that God has regrets?
So basically in a Questions and Answers conversation between a Muslim and a Christian, it seems you’d find something along these lines happening…
Muslim: Why don’t all the dead people get compensated by being brought back to life? Christian: Well these people were corrupted individuals who died and it was necessary at the time that they be killed.
Muslim: So, you believe that all the people who died were corrupted? No one was an innocent bystander by any chance?
Christian: Well, there might have been a couple here and there.
Muslim: So how do they get compensated?
Christian: That’s up to God.
Muslim: Fair enough. So what about all the other corrupted individuals who didn’t die, who probably survived and weren’t put to death?
Christian: Jesus died for their sins!
I am honestly less than pleased with the answer “Jesus died for our sins.”
With the above made clear, it causes us to really want to know whose sins did Jesus (as God) really die for?
In Zephaniah 2:12-15 we find God stating;
12 You too, O Cu****es,
will be slain by my sword.
13 He will stretch out his hand against the north and destroy Assyria, leaving Nineveh utterly desolate and dry as the desert.
14 Flocks and herds will lie down there, creatures of every kind. The desert owl and the screech owl will roost on her columns. Their calls will echo through the windows, rubble will be in the doorways, the beams of cedar will be exposed.
15 This is the carefree city that lived in safety. She said to herself, I am, and there is none besides me. What a ruin she has become, a lair for wild beasts! All who pass by her scoff and shake their fists.
This shows a lot of murderous anger and hatred coming from the end of God (assuming he’s Jesus).
Now, we go a little further into this article and point out once again, that Jesus is God according to the Christians and that many atrocities have been performed by the command of God. Be reminded also that God repents for these atrocities. However, as nice as this “repentance” may appear that comes from God’s end each time an atrocity occurs, it does not really bring back these people from the dead or grant them any form of compensation.
The 6th commandment of
“Do Not Murder” is clear and its consequences are elaborated in Genesis 9:6;
“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed” where the sin for murder is compensated through executing the murderer. This is the implication of capital punishment, where a man who kills must be killed. Repentance on its own is not prescribed as a way of compensating for the sin of murder. In other words, if I were to murder someone and I were to be judged by the laws of the bible, me apologizing to the family of the victim and/or repenting, wouldn’t cut it; I would need to undergo execution. In the case of God, where he supposedly comes as man, it would be fair to say that in the end Jesus didn’t die for the sins of mankind, but rather for his own personal commands of murder in the Old Testament. So we conclude that justice was served, by the death of Jesus on the cross. Therefore, it can’t be possible that The Son died for the sins of man but if anything, he died for the sins of The Father.
Christians put their faith in Jesus Christ, because they believe he died for their sins, where here I have just come to point out that if anyone died for anyone’s sins, its more or less for his own. The contradiction behind the belief of Jesus dying for mankind’s sins is clear and should no longer be used as a segue into the Christian doctrine. Christians need to see the fault behind the reasoning of their faith in Christ, and should not worship Jesus as a middleman between themselves and God. Rather, we should all focus on God alone and to only worship him, to accept that Jesus was only a mere man created by God, as were Adam & Eve and every other creation of the Almighty.