Islam is not a new religion

I wouldn't want Jesus(pbuh) or anyone to die for all my sins... Talk about a guilt trip.

Not to mention, if I knew someone else was taking the fall for all my mistakes, why would I bother changing my negative character or bother correcting my mistakes? Really does kind of give (in a moral sense) a bad message accross.

truthfnder said :

This is not restricted only to Jehovah’s Witness and its cousins, but also to many other religions in the world. We have seen this familiar behaviour numerous times since Jesus came to earth 2000 years ago. Please take a moment to examine which religions belong to this class, namely, writing their own scripture and/or setting up their own prophet claiming the final word and/or prophet of God, and accusing the previous belief for corrupting the previous scripture to justify their new religion. To be honest with you, I would be very likely to follow the same tactic if I want to start a new religion, because history shows it has been working well

Click to expand...

Clearly, truthfinder's statement is not based on reality. (it actually makes me wonder if ANY christian has clear mind and able to see reality instead of trying to justify a human-god)
"JW and it's cousins" are not very popular (compared to other forms of christianity), so truthfinder's assertion that JW's tactic work well is extremely misplaced.

You know how to make your religion very popular during the time of roman and greek?

the teaching of Jesus pbuh was clearly not very popular, even among his own people, let alone the roman rulers.
Even when he left earth, his teachings who tried to correct the ways of the lost sheep of israel was still not popular, despite his miracles and so on.
His true followers were living difficult life from oppression.
the message of Monotheistm by jesus pbuh certainly did not sit well with the pervasive paganism of latin and greek society who worship human gods/goddeses

But then some rabbis and priests decided to tweak with jesus' real teachings to make it popular among the gentiles.
They decided that the laws that Jesus taught and religiously followed were no longer applicable to the gentiles
They changed and reinterpreted jesus' sayings and departure to elevate jesus pbuh into divine god-like being
They did not know what to do with the holy spirit, so they made it divine too, thus conforming with the trio gods of existing pagan religions of latin and greek.
Only after jesus made into god status and a trio of gods were formulated, christianity became extremely popular among the romans and greeks.

So truthfinder, that is the "tactic" and "recipe" to make Jesus' monotheist teaching into "hot" and "popular" among the pagans and deceived.

Insaanah said:

The Qur'an is the final book of God, to all mankind. It is 100% the word of God. There is no human author. Not a letter has changed. There are no versions. There are no contradictions. It is scientifically sound, as would be expected from the Creator of the universe.

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I certainly applaud the Islamic stand in rejecting the false trinity doctrine (Surah 4:171; Surah 5:73). But I do not find the Qur'an to be scientifically sound.

Surah 86:5-7, for example, tells us that human semen issues "from between the loins and the ribs". (Pickthal) That is not correct.

Don't start that again! :hmm: You'll find someone will come up with a 'refutation' (I seem to recall it was some rather desperate and irrelevant waffle about the development of testes in the embryo) that will convince believers in 'Qur'anic science' but nobody else.

No religious work is 'scientifically sound' when subjected to objective analysis, including those of both your religion and mine. The whole point of religious works is to address the stuff that science can't!

Hiroshi said:

I certainly applaud the Islamic stand in rejecting the false trinity doctrine (Surah 4:171; Surah 5:73). But I do not find the Qur'an to be scientifically sound.

Surah 86:5-7, for example, tells us that human semen issues "from between the loins and the ribs". (Pickthal) That is not correct.

Click to expand...

Read this, it's a good post -

Mohammad Ridzuwan
فَلْيَنظُرِ الإِنسَـنُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ
So, let man see from what he is created!

خُلِقَ مِن مَّآء دَافِقٍ
He is created from a water gushing forth

يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَآئِبِ
Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.

(Quran 86:5-7)

______________________________________________________________


>> Semen is composed of water and contains every needed nutrients for human body uses. Do you honestly think human testicles have the ability to produce all these nutrients needed? 95-98% of the components of semen are contributed from these glands:

Seminal vesicle (65-75%) >> amino acids, citrate, enzymes, flavins, fructose, phosphorylcholine, prostaglandins, proteins, vitamin C
Prostate gland (25-30%) >> acid phosphatase, citric acid, fibrinolysin, prostate specific antigen, proteolytic enzymes, zinc

Where is the location of these glands?
Between the spine and the rib cage!!!

You may want to see the diagram here for better understanding:
sydneyivf.com/Portals/0/images/male_repro.gif

And use your imagination to compile the above image into this diagram:
niadivas.com/files/067-Spine.jpg

To know more about semen composition and production, read more here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen#Composition_of_human_semen


>> For your information, modern science has succeeded in recognizing the ability of human bone marrow (males') to produce sperm cells. The research was conducted by the researchers from the Universities of Göttingen and Münster and the Medical School of Hannover lead by Professor Karim Nayernia, an Iranian biomedical scientist and a world expert on stem cell biology. The news was publicized in 1997, 13 years ago.

Read more about it here:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6547675.stm


>> Another interesting fact to be noted here, the semen emission process and ejaculation process are still in harmony with the above Quran verses.

The emission process of semen is mediated by the sympathetic nervous system arising in the spinal cord at the thoracic 10 (ribs) to lumbar 2 (backbone) vertebra level. And the ejaculation process is mediated both by parasympathetic nervous system in sacral vertebra (image below) and somatic nervous system via pudendal nerve (the image is below).

Human sacral vertebra image:
dartmouth.edu/~humananatomy/figures/chapter_31/31-7_files/IMAGE002.JPG

Pudendal nerve image:
tipna.org/info/anatomical_images/ComparisonOfPudendalNerveDrawings.jpgp/color]


I recommend you to read this book for further detail:
amazon.com/Practical-Guide-Complete-Interpretation-Analysis/dp/0521799570

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Perseveranze said:

Read this, it's a good post -

Click to expand...

A much simpler explanation is the fact that seventh century physicians wrongly believed that semen came from the kidneys. Human spermatozoa is produced only in the testicles. During sexual intercourse they don't "gush forth" or swim down from between the spine and the rib cage. Clever explanation though.

Trumble said:

Don't start that again! :hmm: You'll find someone will come up with a 'refutation' (I seem to recall it was some rather desperate and irrelevant waffle about the development of testes in the embryo) that will convince believers in 'Qur'anic science' but nobody else.

No religious work is 'scientifically sound' when subjected to objective analysis, including those of both your religion and mine. The whole point of religious works is to address the stuff that science can't!

Click to expand...

Hiroshi said:

Surah 86:5-7, for example, tells us that human semen issues "from between the loins and the ribs". (Pickthal) That is not correct.

Click to expand...

Hiroshi said:

A much simpler explanation is the fact that seventh century physicians wrongly believed that semen came from the kidneys. Human spermatozoa is produced only in the testicles. During sexual intercourse they don't "gush forth" or swim down from between the spine and the rib cage. Clever explanation though.

Click to expand...

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun on Semen Production in the Noble Quran​

by ​

Dr. Munir Munshey​

This article is located at: http://www.answeringislam.org/Quran/Science/semenproduction.htm

And it is authored by Mr. Sam Shamoum


HE WRITES:

Since the verse is speaking of the moment of adult reproduction it can't be talking about the time of embryonic development. Moreover, since 'sulb' is being used in conjunction with 'gushing fluid', which can only be physical; and 'tara'ib' which is another physical word for chest or thorax or ribs, it can't be euphemistic. Therefore, we are left with the very real problem that the semen is coming from the back or kidney area and not the testicles.
The Quran implies that semen production takes place in the kidney or back area:

"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:" S. 86:5-7

My Response:

Did you notice the spin?

The Quran does not mention 'semen production' in verses 86:5-7. Nor anywhere else!
Another spin!

Verses 86:5-7 do not mention 'kidney'. Nor does any other verse! No such word in the Quran.

The Quran simply states that man is created from the ejaculated fluid, which is emitted from within the abdomen. (From "between the ribcage and the spine")

No mention of 'semen production' or 'kidneys'

Mr. Shamoum emphasized this sentence:

"Therefore, we are left with the very real problem that the semen is coming from the back or kidney area and not the testicles."
Does the above sentence not suggest that Mr. Shamoum thinks semen comes from the testicles? He seems to criticize the fact that the Quran disagrees with that!
One wonders! Does Mr. Shamoum think the semen is produced in the testicles? Or does he think that the semen comes from the testicles during coitus?
It does not matter! He would be wrong whether he meant the former, or the later!
Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus!

And that is a scientific fact! Thirteen centuries ago even the scientific community thought that semen is produced in the testicles. A pity! Mr. Shamoum thinks so even today.

The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles.

Does the Quran say the semen is produced in the kidneys?

Absolutely not!

It says simply that man is created from the liquid that is ejaculated. During coitus that liquid springs from the abdomen ("between the ribcage and the spine"). That is a scientific fact!

1400 years ago, even doctors thought semen springs from the testicles during coitus. They were wrong of course! Recent discoveries have proven them wrong!

Semen is stored in vesicles that lie in the abdomen. From there it is ejaculated during coitus. Lay people still think that the ejaculate comes from the testicles.

The Quran does not say where semen is produced. Just where it comes from during coitus!

In fact, if the Quran had said that the semen is produced in the abdomen, ("between the ribcage and the spine"), and not the testicles, it would still be accurate. At least 95 to 98% accurate! Only 2-5% of the semen is contributed by the testicles. The rest is produced in the glands located in the pelvic cavity.

But the Quran does not say where the semen is produced, because the Quran is not 98% accurate. It is 100% ACCURATE!

What does the Quran really say?

Question: What is it that man is created from? Answer:

(He is) created from the surging fluid! 87:6

The Exact Arabic words are just four: "Khuliqa minm Maain Daafiq"

Khuliqa = created ; Minm = from

Maain = liquid, fluid, juice, water ; Daafiq = anything that flows out, gushes out, pours out, wells out, sheds. (From the Hans Wehr Arabic to English Dictionary)

The Standard Arabic to Arabic dictionaries also mention: anything that surges or bounces. For instance a "daafiq" ball would be a "bouncing ball"

"Maain Daafiq" is a surging fluid, gushing water, the liquid that pours out, or any combination of the words for "maain" and "daafiq" mentioned above.

Famous translators have rendered these four words as:

"Created from a drop emitted" (Yusuf Ali). "Created from a gushing fluid" (Pickthal). "Water pouring forth" (Shakir). "Created from a fluid poured forth" (Zafraullah khan). "Spurt of water" (Hamidullah).
Arabic speakers can really appreciate the beauty of these four words!

The Quran does not use the word 'sperm', nor the word 'semen', nor does it say anything about the production of semen or sperm.

The emphasis is clearly on the word 'daafiq', the surging, the welling out, the pouring forth, the shedding, and the flowing out of the fluid.

Simply put, it is the ejaculate that fertilizes. And that is the simple truth. The simple scientific truth!
Please do not wave away this poignant statement!

Can the Sperm alone fertilize the human ovum?

Sperm alone cannot even move very well. They need energy to swim to the egg and penetrate it. That is provided by fructose, a sugar produced by the seminal vesicles.

Prostaglandin hormones are needed to suppress an immune response by the female against the foreign semen.

Zinc is needed to stabilize the DNA of the sperms.

Metal and salt ions are needed to make the pH of the vaginal cavity favorable for the sperm to survive.
Lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids are also needed to perform vital functions.

The ejaculated fluid has all that is needed, including the sperms (2-5% sperms, 95-98% other ingredients). The statement of the Quran is absolutely correct!

Where does the semen spring from during coitus?

During coitus semen is ejaculated from the two storage areas called the seminal vesicles, and NOT FROM THE TESTICLES.

Let man look at (and bear in mind) the substance he is created from! (He is) created from the surging fluid, which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:5-7

What is definitely excluded is the scrotal pouch, which is below the spine! Semen does not spring from there during coitus!

Also excluded is the thorax, since it is not between the ribcage and the spine, but is rather inside the ribcage.
The area not excluded is the abdomen and the pelvic cavity! The Quran is 100% correct. Semen is stored in the seminal vesicles to be ejaculated during coitus.

The exact words of the Quran

The exact Arabic words: Bain usSulbe watTaraib
Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back; Taraib = ribs, breastbone, chest.
Bain = between, among, amidst

It is a phrase in Arabic that is similar to the English phrase, "somewhere between the front and the back"
It would mean that the semen springs from "somewhere between the front and the back" of the body. In other words, somewhere from inside the body!

If one was to insist upon the literal meaning, one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too. The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx!
(He is) created from the surging fluid! Which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:6-7

Why does the Quran simply not say, Abdominal cavity?

Only a creator of the universe can reveal words that remain precise and accurate for thousands of years even in this changing world. Every generation feels as if the Quran was revealed specifically for them, and only yesterday.
That is the miracle of the Quran! Its words seem always to be in agreement with what science has observed and determined with certainty.

An example!

The Quran asked the believers to say the following before mounting a horse, a camel or any other animal.

"Supreme is He Who tamed this for us. We could not have done it (otherwise). And we are certainly going to return to our Lord!" 43:13-14

When we get aboard a plane we get a feeling that these words were revealed in the jet age! The above is just a translation. The original Arabic words are more poignant!

The statements of the Quran about the creation of the world, and about the relativity of time and space are amazingly the modern concepts.

People in the seventh century AD had their own ideas about how human beings are conceived. Ibn Ishaq and others who lived in those times found the words of the Quran in compliance with the scientific knowledge of their time.

Ibn Kathir, was a scholar of the 13th century AD, and scientific perceptions had changed by then. The wordings of the Quran still seemed in sync with the latest scientific knowledge of his time.

Dr. Bucaille, a non-Muslim scholar was amazed at what he found in the Quran.

In the modern times we find the words of the Marvelous Majestic Quran amazingly in agreement with the 21st century knowledge.

That is possible because the words of the Quran exist exactly as revealed. The language of the Quran is alive and well! It is one of the six official languages of the United Nations. The original language of the bible was Aramaic which is dead as a doornail.

The Hindu and the Buddhist scriptures were originally written in languages whose names too have been forgotten!

Poetic license?

No literature in any language can equal the diction and eloquence of the Quran! It has rhythm, meter, and a sing-song quality. Yet it is not the work of a poet!

Poets achieve excellence by resorting to exaggeration. The Quran achieved the highest standard of eloquence and diction without any exaggeration. Everything is literally accurate!

That is what fills the believer with confidence. Just like the discourse of the Quran about the matters of this life, its description of the afterlife HAS TO BE just as accurate

Consider chapter 86 of the Quran (surah Najam).

This chapter has 17 very short verses; each verse has between 2 to 6 words. They have a rhythm and meter, and they rhyme in a specific manner. Yet the subject discussed is so profound! The Quran does not stray one bit from its message.

This is the subject matter of the 86th chapter, a total of less than 65 words in Arabic.

In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Beneficent
By the sky, and the night star! How would you know what the night star is? A bright star! There is no soul without a guardian over it. Let man look at the substance he is created from! Created from the surging fluid which springs from between the spine and the ribs! Indeed, He is capable of bringing man back to life (after his death).

That day secrets would be laid bare. (That day) man shall have neither strength, nor any helpers. (I swear) by the sky that repeatedly sends rain down. And by the earth that splits (and lets plants emerge). Indeed, this Qur'an is the statement that sifts (right from wrong). It is not an idle tale! They are hatching a nefarious plot. But I, too, shall devise a scheme! So give the unbelievers a little respite. Deal with them gently for a while.

Remember, this is just a translation! The original words can put a believer in an ecstatic state.
Mr. Shamoum quoted the translation of just about 15 of these words. These words ask you to look at how insignificant is the beginning of man. Would God have any difficulty resurrecting such an insignificant being?
The entire world of diction and eloquence should fall prostrate before these words! Leave aside the rest of the verses in that chapter, or the rest of the chapters of the Quran!

That is not an exaggeration either.



Return to Homepage

​

________________________________

On a separate note are you an embryologist/anatomist a linguist and a doctor? You really ought to get your knowledge from books, not answering Islam!

an addendum to the above:

يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ (86:7)
Basit - Hussari - Minshawi

Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttaraibi
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Man:creation of]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]86:7 (Asad) issuing from between the loins [of man] and the pelvic arch [of woman]. [3] -

Note 3 (Quran Ref: 86:7 ) The plural noun tara'ib, rendered by me as "pelvic arch", has also the meaning of "ribs" or "arch of bones"; according to most of the authorities who have specialized in the etymology of rare Quranic expressions this term relates specifically to female anatomy (Taj al-'Arus).(Quran Ref: 86:7 )

http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch

So no matter how it is sliced it is absolutely 100% accurate.

You know what I find to be 'waffle' and 'not scientifically sound' People who are neither versed in the Quran, Science, language, history. exegesis-- coming and sharing their beliefs which has no foundation no proof or certainty and with such bravado. I'd do some extensive research lest I end up embarrassing myself and humiliating myself so publicly. Reminds me of the other christian fellow who stated that the sun is stationary, I mean even if you disliked the Quran so, at least keep yourself abreast of modern science so you are not perceived as some medieval git who is unable to take himself outside the beliefs they held in the christian dark ages!
[/FONT]

Trumble said:

Don't start that again! :hmm: You'll find someone will come up with a 'refutation' (I seem to recall it was some rather desperate and irrelevant waffle about the development of testes in the embryo) that will convince believers in 'Qur'anic science' but nobody else.

No religious work is 'scientifically sound' when subjected to objective analysis, including those of both your religion and mine. The whole point of religious works is to address the stuff that science can't!

Click to expand...

Why don't you simply write out the sentence, "I have closed my mind to the matter and will not be convinced by anything," and just be direct and honest about it?

τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1384098 said:

On a separate note are you an embryologist/anatomist a linguist and a doctor? You really ought to get your knowledge from books, not answering Islam!

Click to expand...

You quoted Answering Islam. I didn't.

τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1384098 said:

Let man look at (and bear in mind) the substance he is created from! (He is) created from the surging fluid, which springs from between the spine and the ribs! 86:5-7

What is definitely excluded is the scrotal pouch, which is below the spine! Semen does not spring from there during coitus!

Also excluded is the thorax, since it is not between the ribcage and the spine, but is rather inside the ribcage.
The area not excluded is the abdomen and the pelvic cavity! The Quran is 100% correct. Semen is stored in the seminal vesicles to be ejaculated during coitus.

The exact words of the Quran

The exact Arabic words: Bain usSulbe watTaraib
Sulb = backbone, loin, lower back; Taraib = ribs, breastbone, chest.
Bain = between, among, amidst

It is a phrase in Arabic that is similar to the English phrase, "somewhere between the front and the back"
It would mean that the semen springs from "somewhere between the front and the back" of the body. In other words, somewhere from inside the body!

If one was to insist upon the literal meaning, one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too. The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles.

If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.

Click to expand...

The seminal vesicle is nowhere near the ribcage.

Hiroshi said:

You quoted Answering Islam. I didn't.

Click to expand...

Actually you did, whatever 'answering Islam' posts is circulated amongst the ignorant.. and you know how I can tell of your ignorance?

The seminal vesicle is nowhere near the ribcage.

Click to expand...

because you didn't even bother read what was posted here:

τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1384106 said:

an addendum to the above:

يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ (86:7)
Basit - Hussari - Minshawi

Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttaraibi
Topics discussed in this Verse:
[Man:creation of]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial]86:7 (Asad) issuing from between the loins [of man] and the pelvic arch [of woman]. [3] -

Note 3 (Quran Ref: 86:7 ) The plural noun tara'ib, rendered by me as "pelvic arch", has also the meaning of "ribs" or "arch of bones"; according to most of the authorities who have specialized in the etymology of rare Quranic expressions this term relates specifically to female anatomy (Taj al-'Arus).(Quran Ref: 86:7 )

http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch

So no matter how it is sliced it is absolutely 100% accurate.

You know what I find to be 'waffle' and 'not scientifically sound' People who are neither versed in the Quran, Science, language, history. exegesis-- coming and sharing their beliefs which has no foundation no proof or certainty and with such bravado. I'd do some extensive research lest I end up embarrassing myself and humiliating myself so publicly. Reminds me of the other christian fellow who stated that the sun is stationary, I mean even if you disliked the Quran so, at least keep yourself abreast of modern science so you are not perceived as some medieval git who is unable to take himself outside the beliefs they held in the christian dark ages!

Click to expand...

you'd do yourself a great service reading before writing.. what do you think?

all the best[/FONT]

τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1384449 said:

because you didn't even bother read what was posted here:





you'd do yourself a great service reading before writing.. what do you think?

all the best

Click to expand...

"No matter how it is sliced" is an admission that there are numerous ideas proposed concerning this strange passage in the Qur'an but Muslims cannot agree among themselves how to explain it.

Yusuf Ali has a footnote saying: "A man's seed is the quintessence of his body. It proceeds from his loins, i.e. from his back between the hip-bones and his ribs His back-bone is the source and symbol of his strength and personality. In the spinal cord and in the brain is the directive energy of the central nervous system, and this directs all action, organic and psychic. The spinal cord is continuous with the Medulla Oblongata in the brain."

You said also that the seminal vesicle in the man's body is what the verse is referring to.

But now you are telling me that the verse means that the gushing fluid proceeds from somewhere between the man's loins and the woman's pelvic arch. Most ingenious. I know of yet another explanation that Muslims have proposed quite different from these other three. I'm wondering if you are going to suggest that as well.

Hiroshi said:

"No matter how it is sliced" is an admission that there are numerous ideas proposed concerning this strange passage in the Qur'an but Muslims cannot agree among themselves how to explain it.

Yusuf Ali has a footnote saying: "A man's seed is the quintessence of his body. It proceeds from his loins, i.e. from his back between the hip-bones and his ribs His back-bone is the source and symbol of his strength and personality. In the spinal cord and in the brain is the directive energy of the central nervous system, and this directs all action, organic and psychic. The spinal cord is continuous with the Medulla Oblongata in the brain."

You said also that the seminal vesicle in the man's body is what the verse is referring to.

But now you are telling me that the verse means that the gushing fluid proceeds from somewhere between the man's loins and the woman's pelvic arch. Most ingenious. I know of yet another explanation that Muslims have proposed quite different from these other three. I'm wondering if you are going to suggest that as well.

Click to expand...

I forget the specific name of the particular fallacy involved here but it is a form of non-sequitur in which it is seriously proposed that the mere existence or supposed existence of a lot of different beliefs or claims about something is evidence against one of them or against the thing itself, as if the odds of a solution being correct somehow decrease the more people propose other solutions. A sort of variation on the gambler's fallacy, and the same mistake atheists make when they speak of the huge number of religions the world has had as an indication that none of them are true.

Or maybe you're just pretending to rebut while really scoffing, I can't tell which. (The name of that fallacy, I think, is the appeal to ridicule.) In any case you haven't addressed any of the specific linguistic proof vale's lily has offered you.

Yahya Sulaiman said:

I forget the specific name of the particular fallacy involved here but it is a form of non-sequitur in which it is seriously proposed that the mere existence or supposed existence of a lot of different beliefs or claims about something is evidence against one of them or against the thing itself, as if the odds of a solution being correct somehow decrease the more people propose other solutions. A sort of variation on the gambler's fallacy, and the same mistake atheists make when they speak of the huge number of religions the world has had as an indication that none of them are true.

Or maybe you're just pretending to rebut while really scoffing, I can't tell which. (The name of that fallacy, I think, is the appeal to ridicule.) In any case you haven't addressed any of the specific linguistic proof vale's lily has offered you.

Click to expand...

Be serious. How many translations of the Qur'an read: "woman's pelvic arch" at Surah 86:7?