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Amoeba
11-18-2010, 09:20 AM
I have heard increasingly from various sources that children do have a natural belief in God. It seems more than one culture and religion believe this too. I was wondering if this is also an Islamic belief? Is there anything in Qur'an and/or Hadeeth to support this? I'm just curious, been looking a while because the topic is interesting. Thanks.
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Ramadhan
11-18-2010, 03:11 PM
We believe that God give us an inborn natural predisposition ("fitrah") towards belief in One God. This is because Allah SWT has made us taking oath prior to being made into life in this world to acknowledge His divinity and lordships, and this oath was imprinted on our human soul.

When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":
(QS. 7:172)

So when a child is born, it has with it a natural belief in God. This natural belief is called in Arabic the "fitrah". If a child were left alone, it would grow up aware of Almighty God in His Unity, but all children are affected by the pressures of their environment. The Prophet Muhammad SAW reported that Allah SWT said: "I created My servants in the right religion, but the devils made them go astray." (Reported in Sahih Muslim.) The prophet SAW also said: "Each child is born in a state of fitrah, but his parents make him a Jew or a Christian." (Reported in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim).
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Amoeba
11-19-2010, 08:32 AM
Are there any cases where some children are born with more of an instinct in this case than others? Such as some children forgetting God by the time they become self-aware even though nothing obvious in their life really tells them otherwise, or some children continuing to be true to their fitrah in the face of the indoctrination and brainwashing they receive?

In the former scenario, can the child (later on as an adult) be held accountable for this even if they don't remember a time they ever believed? How serious is this sin, and what does one need to do to repent?
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- Qatada -
11-19-2010, 12:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amoeba
Are there any cases where some children are born with more of an instinct in this case than others? Such as some children forgetting God by the time they become self-aware even though nothing obvious in their life really tells them otherwise, or some children continuing to be true to their fitrah in the face of the indoctrination and brainwashing they receive?

In the former scenario, can the child (later on as an adult) be held accountable for this even if they don't remember a time they ever believed? How serious is this sin, and what does one need to do to repent?

:salamext:


It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon - Bukhari).
The correct view is that what is meant by fitrah is the religion of Islam, as stated in the hadeeth narrated by Muslim from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said: “

Allaah said:

‘I created My slaves as haneefs (believers in pure monotheism), then the Shaytaan misled them from their religion; he forbade them what I had permitted to them and commanded them to associate others with Me for which I had not sent down any authority.’”

What it means when it is said that a child is born as a Muslim is that he is born inherently ready, when he reaches the age of discretion, if he is given the choice between Islam and its opposite, to prefer Islam over its opposite and to choose Islam as his religion, so long as there is nothing to prevent him from doing so, such as his whims and desires or tribalism. Following his desires makes him prefer falsehood so that he may attain some share of leadership or wealth, and tribalism or racial pride makes him follow his forefathers or elders, even if they are not following true guidance. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Nay! They say: ‘We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we guide ourselves by their footsteps’” [al-Zukhruf 43:23]

And Allaah tells us what the followers among the people of Hell will say (interpretation of the meaning):

“And they will say: ‘Our Lord! Verily, we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they misled us from the (Right) Way’” [al-Ahzaab 33:67]





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- Qatada -
11-19-2010, 12:14 PM
:salamext:


Claim that: Children - without being taught - have a Predisposition to believe in Supreme Being who created with a Purpose.


Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.

"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."

In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose.

In one study, six and seven-year-olds who were asked why the first bird existed replied "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice".

Another experiment on 12-month-old babies suggested that they were surprised by a film in which a rolling ball apparently created a neat stack of blocks from a disordered heap.


Dr Barrett said there is evidence that even by the age of four, children understand that although some objects are made by humans, the natural world is different.

He added that this means children are more likely to believe in creationism rather than evolution, despite what they may be told by parents or teachers.

Dr Barrett claimed anthropologists have found that in some cultures children believe in God even when religious teachings are withheld from them.

"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ic-claims.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...-claims-3.html
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potentialmuslim
11-19-2010, 12:33 PM
I think we are born with a yearning to understand the universe, where it came from, why we are here. In one of the earliest stages of development, it is clear to children that an effect must have a cause - they work out that the ball is rolling because you pushed it. The world and our existence is an effect, it must also have a cause. The natural belief is in a Creator, a deity that exists outside of the natural world that brought it into being. However many come to doubt G-d because of the way they are brought up and sometimes the silly things that they are taught by and about religion (especially in British society).
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جوري
11-19-2010, 12:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by potentialmuslim
(especially in British society)

It is not just a British thing, it is a global movement toward that 'New world order'
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Alpha Dude
11-19-2010, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amoeba
In the former scenario, can the child (later on as an adult) be held accountable for this even if they don't remember a time they ever believed? How serious is this sin, and what does one need to do to repent?
If by this question you are asking about people like yourself (i.e reverts/converts), then they don't need to do anything to repent. Every single sin that has been committed prior to conversion is forgiven once Islam is accepted.
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Ramadhan
11-19-2010, 04:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Amoeba
Are there any cases where some children are born with more of an instinct in this case than others? Such as some children forgetting God by the time they become self-aware even though nothing obvious in their life really tells them otherwise, or some children continuing to be true to their fitrah in the face of the indoctrination and brainwashing they receive?
Certainly there are those children who were born with stronger instinct than others.
The ultimate example is the prophets and God's messengers. Of course prophets and messengers of God were special human beings, but this will give you some idea.

Two prophets lead the way in this example: prophet Ibrahim pbuh and prophet Muhammad pbuh.
The society where prophet Ibrahim pbuh was born and lived were idol worshippers and complete pagans, even his own father was such a staunch supporter of idol worship and plead with Ibrahim pbuh to stop believing in one God. But even when he was a child prophet Ibrahim pbuh frequently went into the nature, spent time alone, reflected everything, asked questions about who created the whole universe etc.
prophet Muhammad was left an orphan (his father died even before he was born and his mother died when he was very very young). Mekkah at that time was the center for idols worshipping in arabia, but prophet Muhammad maintained his fitrah and remain hanif (believe in one god) despite all that. prior to the first revelation that was brought by the angel Jibreel, he used to spend time alone for a number of days up in the mountain to reflect and be near with the creator.

I you haven't done so, I suggest you read the histroy of the prophet Muhammad SAW (sirah nabawiyyah). There are many of those, but beware of some sirah written by orientalists or western "academics".
One of the best sirah I've read was the one written by DR. Said Ramadhan Al-Buthy
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أبو سليمان عمر
11-20-2010, 02:40 AM
Ibn Taymiyyah's View on Fitrah

According to Ibn Taymiyyah every child is born in a state of fitrah; in a state of innate goodness, and it is the social environment which cause the individual to deviate from this state. There is a natural correspondence between human nature and Islâm; man is suited for Dîn al-Islâm and responds spontaneously to its teachings. Dîn al-Islâm provides the ideal conditions for sustaining and developing man’s innate qualities.[1] Man’s nature has inherently within it more than simply knowledge of Allâh, but a love of Him and the will to pracitise the religion (dîn) sincerely as a true hanîf. This points to the element of the individual will, a pro-active drive which purposefully seeks to realise Islamic beliefs and practices. Ibn Taymiyyah responded to Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr’s notion of fitrah and argued that it is not merely a dormant potential which should be awakened from without, but rather the source of awakening itself, within the individual. The hanîf is not the one who reacts to sources of guidance, but one who is already guided and seeks to establish it consciously in practice.[2] The central hadîth refers to a change which may be affected by the social environment; Ibn Taymiyyah maintained that this change is one from a given state, a positive state of Islâm, to Judaism, Christianity, Magianism, etc. The social environment may be also guide the individual to îmân and good conduct so that the motivation in him to do good may be expressed, aided by external sources of guidance.[3] Ibn Taymiyyah was of the view that the human soul possesses an innate receptive capacity and a need for Islâmic guidance while Dîn al-Islâm is an adequate stimulus for this capacity and a sufficient fulfillment of this need.

Moreover, if sources of external misguidance are absent, the fitrah of the individual will be actualised involuntarily and good will prevail.[4] In support of this view, Ibn Taymiyyah cited Abû Hurairah’s reference to the central Qur’ânic âyah (30:30) after the latter’s quoting the central hadîth.[5] In other words, whenever Abû Hurairah, may Allâh be pleased with him, reported the central hadîth, he used to recite after it the following Qur’ânic âyah:

‘Set your face to the dîn in sincerity (hanîfan: as a hanîf) which is Allâh’s fitrah (the nature made by Allâh) upon which He created mankind (fatara’n-nâs). There is no changing the creation of Allâh. That is the right dîn but most people know not.’ (Qur’ân 30:30)

Abû Hurairah’s citation of this âyah after the hadîth apparently means that the fitrah of the hadîth refers to the fitrah of the Qur’ânic âyah, which is a good fitrah because the right dîn is being described as Allâh’s fitrah. The logic of this argument is that Abû Hurairah, may Allâh be pleased with him, meant that fitrah is associated with Islâm (al-Qurtubi, 1967). And according to Ibn Taymiyyah it is the social circumstances, as represented by the parents, which causes the child to be a Jew, a Christian or a Magian.

Since the Prophet, may Allâh bless him and grant him peace, did not mention the parents changing the child from a state of fitrah to a state of Islâm, we must suppose that the child’s state at birth is in harmony with Islâm, in the widest sense of submission to Allâh (Ibn Taymiyyah, 1981). Another implication of this view of fitrah is that, while good constitutes the inner state of a person’s nature, evil is something that happens after the person is born. That is to say, deviation after birth is due to the corrupting influence of the social environment.

Ibn Qayyim (d. 751 A.H.), a disciple of Ibn Taymiyyah, held similar views on the positive interpretation. He did not regard fitrah as mere knowledge of right and wrong at birth but as an active, inborn love and acknowledgement of Allâh which reaffirms His Lordship. He also explained that Qur’ân 16:78 (‘And Allâh brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers, knowing nothing…’) does not refer to innate knowledge of Allâh or Islâm, but rather to knowledge of the particulars of religion in general which is why the latter type of knowledge is absent at birth. Moreover, fitrah is not merely the capacity or readiness to receive Islâm, in which such a condition can be unfulfilled when parents choose Judaism or Christianity as the child’s religion; Ibn Qayyim argued that fitrah is truly an inborn predisposition to acknowledge Allâh, tawhîd and dîn al-Islâm.[6]

Imâm an-Nawawî (d. 676 A.H. / 1277 C.E.), a Shâfi‘î faqîh who wrote one of the principal commentaries on Sahîh Muslim, defined fitrah as the unconfirmed state of îmân before the individual consciously affirms his belief. We have already alluded to this positive view of fitrah and the implications it has for children whose parents are polytheists.

Al-Qurtubî (d. 671 A.H.) supported the positive view of fitrah by using the analogy of the physically unblemished animals in the central hadîth to illustrate that, just as animals are born intact, so are humans born with the flawless capacity to accept the truth; and, just as the animal may be injured or scarred, so can fitrah be corrupted or altered by external sources of misguidance.

Notes and References

[1] Ibn Taymiyya Dar‘u Ta‘arud al ‘Aql wa al Naql. Vol. 8, ed. Muhammad Rashad Sa’im. (Riyadh: Jami‘at al-Imam Muhammad ibn Sa‘ud al-Islamiyyah, 1981), Vol. VIII, p. 383 and pp. 444-448.

[2] Ibid., p. 385.

[3] Ibid., p. 385.

[4] Ibid., pp. 463-364.

[5] Ibid., p. 367. cf. also al-Qurtubî, Al-Jâmi‘u al-Ahkâm al-Qur’ân, p. 25.

[6] al-Asqalânî, Fathul Barî, p. 198

Raised for benefit:

Notes: There are some who say that the Fitrah only refers to natural disposition however if a person is born in a Christian or a Jewish family they are Christian/Jew. And this is incorrect as Islam is the Fitrah as the Prophet (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam) said:

"We awoken on the Fitrah of Islam and the word of Ikhlaas...." {See hisnul Muslim in the section of rememberences for the morning and evening}. And also the Hadeeth: "Everyone is born upon the Fitrah and his parents make him Jew, or Christian or a fire worshipper."
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Pygoscelis
11-23-2010, 09:30 PM
Children are born trusting in a higher power, which is initially "mommy", and later can become "God". People also have a predisposition to see purpose and patterns even where there are none (ie, gazing at clouds or ink blots). That doesn't necessarily mean children believe in "God", and even if they do naturally believe in a God.... they certainly do not naturally believe in any particular God that we may like to suggest. This is programmed into them by parents and teachers, as they DO have a predisposition to believe what they are told and not question. This blind trust in authority and believing whatever they are told often starts to slip away as children grow up.

None of the above inborn tendencies are particularly surprising or unique to our species.
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جوري
11-23-2010, 09:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Pygoscelis
which is initially "mommy"

we didn't know you collaborated on this enterprising research to come with such a conclusion, it is funny since we didn't see any annotates to 'Mommy' in the article or your name for that matter. Just a case of adding my two worthless P's?

all the best
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IAmZamzam
11-24-2010, 01:20 AM
Psychology is, for the average person, only an excuse or defense to believe what they would already have believed anyway. And even when used correctly it's the very least exact science in existence. I am speaking from my own experience alone.
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جوري
11-24-2010, 02:05 AM
I agree-- my feelings on psychiatry and psychology is that they evolved to be an acceptable 'scientific' substitute for religion/philosophy especially in its infancy .. most of the truly organic diseases that are diagnosed by psychiatrists (Parkinson/Alzheimer/ schizophrenia)etc. can basically go under neurology ...

atheists however are keen on subscribing to the psychological finds they desire when suitable while rendering the others absurd also as suits them .. like the fellow who introduced the psychological study on the homosexual brain in contrast to the heterosexual reflecting that of the opposite sex hence their gayness he said, secretly they were born with the opposite gender's brain but render a higher power 'mommy' also as suits their whimsy.. a hypocritical and unscientific bunch from my personal interactions with them which is an oddity as they often claim that they are so scientific with an IQ a whopping 0.6% higher than the average christian theist!
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IAmZamzam
11-24-2010, 02:16 AM
Just think about it, folks: how often in your whole entire life have you heard someone allege something psychological for any reason other than as a weak justification for what they obviously already believed anyway? (We're not talking about a professional psychiatrist diagnosing and treating someone who came to them for help because of a mental illness or problem.)
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جوري
11-24-2010, 02:28 AM
I include psychiatrists, since much of the diagnosis and treatment in psychiatry is very subjective and even though there is a unified thought and a scientific body behind it, it is still just that. A white male presenting with the same sx as a black male one is given the diagnosis of bipolar while the other schizophrenia purely on race, a woman shows up with anhedonia, inability to concentrate, frequent crying spells and is given the diagnosis of depression immediately while a male with the sx ends up with a workup for hypothyroidism, anemia etc. before such a dx is made.. then the distinction between 'diseases' in and of themselves follow an absurd guideline that is based ultimately on a chronology than anything else.
Brief psychotic, schizophreniform, schizophrenia nothing more than a time line separating each and the studies out of the INH on depression treatment hardly get published so people don't actually know of the benefit if at all of the crap they dump into their body in comparison to placebos. But that is a topic for another day and another thread. Psychiatrists are colleagues to be respected for all their years of medical school and training in residencies but even I wonder how much they buy into what they are selling...
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IAmZamzam
11-24-2010, 02:43 AM
They can help people, and the better ones frequently do. But to the degree that, beyond the domain of neurologists, the various mental illnesses are even real at all, they are impossible to define in a logically believable fashion. It really does always come down, according to the DSM themselves, to how many out of a certain list of defining characteristics of a disease a person happens to possess. e.g. If at least four out of seven items on a list apply to you, you have this disease. What kind of diagnostic method is that?? Cluster effect much??
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