LI/IB Politics

[Beardo]

:sl:

I thought I'd post the idea here instead of in the staff sections, just because.

This idea MAY sound a LITTLE childish and immature but I figure it's worth a try, especially after taking my Political Science class this semester. So here's my game plan: (literally, it's a game/role-playing)

Basically, we introduce a Politics section or sub-section onto IslamicBoard. Not only would we discuss politics, but also form our own IB "Government" where we could do one or two or both of the following:
1. To pass/reject/modify IslamicBoard rules (such as the post counts for entering the gender appropriate rooms, introducing/removing new forums, etc etc). We'd also first have a vote on whether we require a 2/3 majority vote or a simple majority vote in order to pass these rules.
2. In addition to the above, we can also have a real government role-playing Democratic thing where we'd also bring in OTHER topics to the table such as globalization, restricting it or even... well, anything political! It'd be our own system, more like assessing the Muslim community and their views. It could work as a research project as well.

This idea is really exciting for me, but it's up to you guys to vote in or out. Not EVERYONE has to join into this. It's just another optional addition onto the forum.

[Beardo]

It's fun, educational, and political. It's time we be aware of our surroundings, and this is a great way to learn. Who said Muslims can't be in congress or parliament? At least speaking for us Americans, we have a lot of freedom and rights, Alhamdulillah.

[Yanal]

:sl:

Sounds like a fun idea,so do we elect members into the government once they express interest?

[S.Belle]

i think its a wonderful idea mashallah
Would their be like IB political parties?...and like mini campaigns or something?
oh if so maybe you can make like a new group in the group section for each political party so it would be like thier "homepage" or personal discussion area

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[Yanal]

:sl:

Will the staff also participate?

[~Raindrop~]

Politics aren't my cup of tea... :><:

[Yanal]

:sl:

Remember brother Rashad said that not all members have to participate..

[Beardo]

i think its a wonderful idea mashallah
Would their be like IB political parties?...and like mini campaigns or something?
oh if so maybe you can make like a new group in the group section for each political party so it would be like thier "homepage" or personal discussion area

That's a great idea!

Politics aren't my cup of tea... :><:

>_<

----

But if the idea is passed, then we can work on the details. I don't want to make plans and then have someone like AabiruSabeel stomping on it.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

Yes, sure, sounds like a good idea.

[جوري]

uggggggggghhhhh.. if you want to introduce something worthwhile to LI, bring a live scholar every friday or whatever day to take our difficult questions.

how will this political section be different from 'world's affairs'

:w:

[أحمد]

:sl:

What would that (LI/IB Politics) facilitate, that other sections can't?

:wa:

[Beardo]

uggggggggghhhhh.. if you want to introduce something worthwhile to LI, bring a live scholar every friday or whatever day to take our difficult questions.

how will this political section be different from 'world's affairs'

:w:

It'll be more of a role playing thing. The difference is quite obvious, really. :-x

[Yanal]

:sl:

For the older members it may not feel like an interesting idea but for the younger members(Rashad and myself being one) it is interesting idea to bring to a forum.

[Alpha Dude]

I find it a dull and pointless idea. Not surprised, given the OP..

Somebody please hand Rashad a box of tissues. <tongue out emoticon>

Nah, but seriously..

1. we discuss politics in the World Affairs section already and why would you let members decide the forum rules for? o_O

2. not really following what you mean here.. please elaborate

[أبو سليمان عمر]

Democracy is not from Islam Akhi Barak Allah feek and this is what it seems you are trying to do even if it is for fun you should still avoid it

[أحمد]

:sl:

Forum rules, maintenance and moderation is for those already assigned the responsibility. Other suggestions and feedback can be added to this section; as the title "Forum Help & Feedback" suggests quite obviously. This cancel's out the need for extra sections.

:wa:

[Beardo]

I find it a dull and pointless idea. Not surprised, given the OP..

Somebody please hand Rashad a box of tissues. <tongue out emoticon>

Nah, but seriously..

1. we discuss politics in the World Affairs section already and why would you let members decide the forum rules for? o_O

2. not really following what you mean here.. please elaborate

It's just a political role playing thing. >_< We basically vote issues, put up our political opinions etc.

Democracy is not from Islam Akhi Barak Allah feek and this is what it seems you are trying to do even if it is for fun you should still avoid it

Could you provide your evidence for that? :S Consultation was always apart of the Prophet (Salallallahu alayhe wasallam)'s decision.

[Beardo]

Could we at least give it a shot for 10 days? =/

[Alpha Dude]

Could we at least give it a shot for 10 days? =/

Hey, no emotional pleading. You're swaying the voters.

Let them do the deciding, right? :p

[Beardo]

Hey, no emotional pleading. You're swaying the voters.

Let them do the deciding, right? :p

The votes seem to be on my side. FYI.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

I was thinking, in the world section members debate with each other. However, sometimes we get off topic and argue for days and other members gang up on other members (lol).

How about we have a debate section to complement this new section? Only two members will be allowed to debate against each other in a controlled setting. It is based on one topic, there is a time limit and once the time limit expires, other members can vote to see which member has presented the best arguments. As for the time limit, I suggest 48 hours? Two days to finish.

(Waiting to get pwned)

[Beardo]

:sl:

I was thinking, in the world section members debate with each other. However, sometimes we get off topic and argue for days and other members gang up on other members (lol).

How about we have a debate section to complement this new section? Only two members will be allowed to debate against each other in a controlled setting. It is based on one topic, there is a time limit and once the time limit expires, other members can vote to see which member has presented the best arguments. As for the time limit, I suggest 48 hours? Two days to finish.

(Waiting to get pwned)

As I said, these are ideas that may definitely be incorporated after the idea gets passed. First step is clicking on that "Yes" ;D

[أبو سليمان عمر]

It's just a political role playing thing. >_< We basically vote issues, put up our political opinions etc.


Could you provide your evidence for that? :S Consultation was always apart of the Prophet (Salallallahu alayhe wasallam)'s decision.

naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership
plus many more

[Beardo]

naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership
plus many more

Quite precisely my point. Democracy was in the lack of better words. But we'll be discussing and voting for/against these issues. Which country do you live in? If you live in UK or US, I'll be very ashamed.

As a Muslim, you can vote for Shariah Law indirectly. For example, homosexuality, vote against it. Simple as that. But if you're going to sit at home and just watch others vote Yes on it, then there is no one to blame but yourself and all those who didn't vote.

[أبو سليمان عمر]

akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote? as a matter of fact this is from taughut as well and Allah has told us to disblieve in it akhi Allah tells us if you dont know ask the people of knowldge

[Beardo]

Bedouin says he'd change his answer to yes if I put up my position for grabs in this newly formed government on LI. ;P Not happening, anyhow.

[Beardo]

akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote?

You're telling me that scholars have told you to abstain from voting on something such as Homosexuality? So you're taking a neutral stance on that then? If you're not going to vote, then these laws will just slip right past you. We live in a country, we follow the laws of the land. What you're talking about is Shari'ah law, but we do not live in a country wherein Shariah law is practiced.

[GuestFellow]

akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote?

It does depend upon which school of thought you follow. IslamQA states voting is not permissible while IslamOnline states voting is permissible under defined circumstances such as the Muslim community will benefit. There is no country in the world that implements the full Sharia following the collapse of the Ottoman empire.

[Alpha Dude]

Bedouin says he'd change his answer to yes if I put up my position for grabs in this newly formed government on LI. ;P Not happening, anyhow.

Well, prove just how much you are keen on this idea. Let's see if you are willing to do whatever it takes for that one last vote. :p

[Alpha Dude]

I want to be the next president of Li. Bring true democracy please, you dictating tyrant...

[Beardo]

By the way, Brother Umar^111, I really hope you don't take offense from what I am saying. I might have gotten into the heat of the moment. I respect your opinion and can see where you are coming from. I haven't voted ever, personally speaking.

The idea I'm proposing to IslamicBoard is mainly a new form of discussing, promoting ideas, and I do expect it to be less rowdy and more respectful. As someone mentioned earlier, people can form their own coalitions to promote their opinion and people can choose accordingly.

It's just a suggestion I slipped in. The call is in all your hands.

[أبو سليمان عمر]

There are many people who when they see the statement of Shaikh Muqbil that Democracy is a Taaghuut they may not understand exactly what he means since many thing that the Taaghuut is only confined to idols.

However Ibnul Qayyim Al Jawzeeyah divided the Taaghuut into five and to summarize they are:

* The Shaitaan
* One who calls to the worship of himself
* One who is worshipped and is pleased with it.
* One who says he knows the unseen
* One who judges other than by what Allah has revealed {believing it to be correct}

The point of reference here is the final category. And the Daleel for this final category is the statement of Allah ta'ala: "And whoever rules by other than what Allah has revealed then they are disbelievers." And also Allah said about the Kuffar: "...They want to rule each other by the Taghuut and they were ordered to disbelieve in it..."

Now if we look at the system of democracy it falls into the category of this Taaghuut because of the following reasons:

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership

And other matters which I have written about in detail.

Upon this we have to know what Kufr (disbelief) in Taaguut means. The Ulama have said that disbelief in Taghuut is to believe that it is false and to distance oneself completely from it. Hence, upon this it is upon the Muslims to believe that democracy is false and to stay away from anything associated with it. Because the one who participates in an action associated to something Haraam has in fact done Haraam.

Therefore, when someone tells you that democracy is simply a witness of a person's competence to lead. Then we say to him that this is an evil Shahadah (شهادة الزور) since democracy is a Taaghuut and we have been told to believe that is false and disassociate ourselves from it. And elections are part are parcel of the democratic system, in fact it is the meat and the core of it. Without elections there is no democracy!

So how can it be that the person is not participating in Taghuut (Kufr, Shirk) when in fact voting is the core of this Taghuut called Democracy? This is really and truly an argument that does not stand on any logic whatsoever.

And as for voting for a woman this has been clarified with the evidence from the Sunnah several times. That a people will never be successful once they put a woman as their ruler. And when a person goes to the polls and votes for a woman leader that is exactly what he is doing.

And I ask those who wish to elect a woman is their leader; all of us know that your wives cannot be seen as the ones who have leadership of the home even though she may be "capable." So if as Muslim men cannot let our pious wives rule us in our own homes how can it be that it is permissible to elect a corrupt woman to govern our whole country?

"How can you judge the matter as such?"

Lastly I have to comment on those Salfatees (Shaikh Muqbil called those who practice Salafeeyah and Democracy this) who use the rulings of some of our scholars regarding voting. Islam requires of us to follow the evidences wherever it may be from whoever it may be.

Therefore, since there is overwhelming evidence that voting is the core of the Taghuut (Democracy) and therefore Haraam how can one who claims to follow this 'Aqeedah and Minhaaj say that voting is Halaal? Respecting the 'Ulama is not by following every single statement they say hook line and sinker but rather it is by respecting and following the methodology of the Ulama. So those who choose to take the opinions of a specific scholar and abandon their methodology in taking the evidences wherever it may be has in fact disrespected all the scholars and is in following his desires.

May Allah open our eyes.


Sheikh Ahmed bin Yahya An Najmee on Voting and Elections

Today (February 27, 2007) the Sheikh was asked the following question:


Questioner: Oh beloved Sheikh, what is the ruling on Muslims in America taking part in voting and elections, if they feel this will somehow benefit Islam and the Muslims?

Sheikh: The system of elections is an innovation and it is not permissible for the Muslims to participate in them alongside the disbelievers.

Questioner: The reason for their participation, is that if they support and vote for an individual running for a particular position; even if this person is a disbeliever, this person will in turn give the Muslims land for building schools and masjids.

Sheikh: Oh my brother, is it permissible for the Muslims to enter into innovations and join and work with the disbelievers to obtain something that may take place, or may not?! This is not correct in my opinion.


No. 48. If someone asks you: What is the ruling on voting and elections?

Then say:

They are from the democratic laws that seek to destroy Allah's true legislation. They are also considered imitation of the disbelievers, and imitating them is not permissible. There is much harm present in them, and there is niether benefit nor gain for the Muslims (in them).

From their most significant harms are:

- (They promote) equality between truth and falsehood, and between the truthful people and those upon falsehood, according to and based on the majority (of votes)

- Elimination of (the foundations and beliefs of) loyalty and disloyalty

- Rupture the unity of the Muslims

They bring about:

- Hatred
- Enmity
- Factionism
- Fanaticism between the Muslims

They also cause:

- Deception
- Trickery
- Fraud
- Falsehood

They waste time, money, remove the modesty from the female, along with disrupting a Muslim's trust in Islamic knowledge and its people (the scholars)

Source: Al Mabadee Al Mufeedah fit Tawheed wal Fiqh wal Aqeedah - Basic Priniciples regarding Tawheed, Islamic Jurisprudence, and Belief- new Arabic print pg. 29 #48

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said:

quote:
... And as for the elections [that are] well-known [and implemented] today in the various nations, then they are not from the Islamic order. Chaos, personal aspirations enter into them, as do greed and favouritism (bias).

Tribulations and the shedding of blood result from them and the desired goal is not attained by them. Rather, they are just a ground for bids (i.e. campaigns), buying and selling and false claims.

The Ruling on Elections and Demonstrations Al-Jareedat ul-Jazeerah, Issue 11358, Ramadaan 1424 (3rd September 2003).

and many more but i will leave that at this i will not post on this thread anymore so if you dont know a matter ask those of knowldge

akhi ProfessorSunday it doesnt matter if there is a differnce or not we look for haqq not ikhtilaf Barak Allah feek



Asalamu alaykum

[Beardo]

It does depend upon which school of thought you follow. IslamQA states voting is not permissible while IslamOnline states voting is permissible under defined circumstances such as the Muslim community will benefit. There is no country in the world that implements the full Sharia following the collapse of the Ottoman empire.

Jazakumullahu Khair for that information, ProfessorSunday. That was definitely relevant to the short discussion Umar^111 and I were talking at hand.

Well, prove just how much you are keen on this idea. Let's see if you are willing to do whatever it takes for that one last vote. :p

Well, it's simply a proposal. Don't start getting the hopes of everyone sky high. I'm comfortable seating right in my throne chair.

I want to be the next president of Li. Bring true democracy please, you dictating tyrant...

Me? A Tryannt? Pish Posh! If I were a Hitler, I'd already have this idea in place and having all you haters banned. But yeah, can't do that.

[Yanal]

:sl:

So your the President/Prime Minister Rashad?

[Tyrion]

Some people need to chilllll

USA! USA!

[Yanal]

^ Not everyone on the forum is from the US,most are from Europe,some are from Canada,very multicultural so that won't get many supporters:D

[GuestFellow]

naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

:sl:

Lets establish what is democracy. According to my Microsoft Word dictionary, democracy means:

Representation of people: the right to a form of government in which power is invested in the people as a whole, usually exercised on their behalf by elected representatives

Democracy is not a western concept. It means the majority decide who can govern their own country. There are different styles of democracies.

They are from the democratic laws that seek to destroy Allah's true legislation. They are also considered imitation of the disbelievers, and imitating them is not permissible. There is much harm present in them, and there is niether benefit nor gain for the Muslims (in them).

I'm sorry but an ideology cannot destroy Allah's true legislation. Democracy can lead to the Sharia being established. For example, in America, the majority vote and decide to establish the Sharia. Yes, very unlikely.

They bring about:

- Hatred
- Enmity
- Factionism
- Fanaticism between the Muslims

I disagree...I'm sorry but Muslims around a world do a great job hating each other with or without democracy.

- Deception
- Trickery
- Fraud
- Falsehood

Like in dictatorships and monarchies and in any other system. It depends who is in power. In any system, the person in power can deceive the public. Some systems make this more difficult than others.

akhi ProfessorSunday it doesnt matter if there is a differnce or not we look for haqq not ikhtilaf Barak Allah feek

Why? Scholars disagree, and we should be aware of those differences.

Overall, what you are describing to me appears to be western style of democracy. I will address your remaining points later.

[Tyrion]

Overall, what you are describing to me appears to be western style of democracy. I will address your remaining points later.

I applaud the effort, but don't assume he'll listen to reason... It seems like he's bent on believing what he wants to. :(


Anyway, long live America! Long live Democracy! Down with Rashad!!!

U.S.A! U.S.A! Yeahhhh!!!

Ah, this thread has me feeling patriotic :D

[جوري]

^^ this guy looks so gay I feel like he is going to break into it is raining men and take off his Velcro polyester suit ....ugh

[Tyrion]

^^ this guy looks so gay I feel like he is going to break into it is raining men and take off his Velcro polyester suit ....ugh

Hahaha, it was the most awkward Uncle Sam picture I could find. :D

[Dagless]

How will it be a democracy if Rashad is already in charge? :p
Why is there an "abstain" option? Isn't that a "no" in disguise? (Or is it just a dig at the singles? :))

[جوري]

no" in disguise?

it is not just a no it is a bloody no..

here is what I think of rashad:

[Yanal]

:sl: 6-4-1, not bad as of yet..

[S.Belle]

here is what I think of rashad:

;Dso you are saying Rashad is reeking havoc on our cyber village and taking away our happiness one gigabyte at a time......Rashad i think we may have the two political parties You against the rest of IB lol:p

[Yanal]

:sl:

He would win,afterall he's the owner:D.

[جوري]

^^ you can't do much with a forum of one!

[Yanal]

I'm pretty sure he can do loads of stuff,finally able to test those buttons that the admins don't let him touch:D

[Muhaba]

there's no such thing as majority voting in politics. didn't you learn that in your political science class?

[Yanal]

Votes now seem to be against..

[Muhaba]

i voted yes, i think it'll be fun and maybe we can have elections like student body elections and have presidents, vice president etc chosen from normal members. maybe something like that for the gender rooms as well.

[tango92]

i wanna be forum Prefect ! ....kind of

can i get a purple user name like a uniform? huh? huh? can i?

[Yanal]

:sl:

I'm sure more sisters will want purple as their uniform so..

[tango92]

:sl:

I'm sure more sisters will want purple as their uniform so..

purple is indeed ambiguous as to wether it is a boys or girls colour. Allah hu Alim

[Yanal]

:sl:

It is but it is mainly portrayed as a female colour.

Anyways,on-topic, I don't think we will get colored usernames. Too much distinction and colour could get confusing to new members.

[Rafeeq]

I thought I'd post the idea here instead of in the staff sections, just because.

This idea MAY sound a LITTLE childish and immature but I figure it's worth a try, especially after taking my Political Science class this semester. So here's my game plan: (literally, it's a game/role-playing)

I voted "No".

That is not chilish, Rashad. Some times I wish I should also be having some administrative privilages but I understand the cause of the forum (if not very well but) well. Hence, any democracy may lead this forum to be high-jacked.

[tigerkhan]

:sl:
i just want to add few lines about democracy and islam but in urdu (sorry for that). maybe some get benfited about islam ruling.
islam and democracy is just opposite things bcz;
1. democracy ki misal is tarh ha kay 100 donkeys agar ek tarf ho jain tu horse ka muqabaly ma un ki baat mani jae gi.
2. islam ma mashwara ha, but mushwara ka ya asule nhe ka jo raey ziada logon ki ho gi wo mani jae gi, bulkay Abubakar RA hay AP SAW kay wisal kay bad sub ki raey ka against Usama RA ka laskar ko rawana kar dia or Hazrat Aysha RA nay fermaya ka agar wo asa na kartay tu islam ka nam-o-nisan mit jata.
3. Islam ma ya nhe ka koi kahay ma ammer bunta hon, balkay jo asa kehta ha to Hadith ma ata ha ka us kay sath ek shatan lug jata ha. islam ma ya ha log ya shoura hud kisi ko agay karian or wo sirf islia man jaey ka sub keh rahay han.
4. islam ma sub ko raey danay ka haq nhe jub ka democracy ma vote sub ka haq hota ha. bulkay Suhaba RA kay time ma tu sirf Muhagir ya Ansar hi pehli saf ma kharay ho saktay thay, or koi khara hota tha tu Suhaba RA pakar kar usay pechaay kar daty thay ka Nabi SAW ka hum ko yahi hukam tha.

[tango92]

:sl:
i just want to add few lines about democracy and islam but in urdu (sorry for that). maybe some get benfited about islam ruling.
islam and democracy is just opposite things bcz;
1. democracy ki misal is tarh ha kay 100 donkeys agar ek tarf ho jain tu horse ka muqabaly ma un ki baat mani jae gi.
2. islam ma mashwara ha, but mushwara ka ya asule nhe ka jo raey ziada logon ki ho gi wo mani jae gi, bulkay Abubakar RA hay AP SAW kay wisal kay bad sub ki raey ka against Usama RA ka laskar ko rawana kar dia or Hazrat Aysha RA nay fermaya ka agar wo asa na kartay tu islam ka nam-o-nisan mit jata.
3. Islam ma ya nhe ka koi kahay ma ammer bunta hon, balkay jo asa kehta ha to Hadith ma ata ha ka us kay sath ek shatan lug jata ha. islam ma ya ha log ya shoura hud kisi ko agay karian or wo sirf islia man jaey ka sub keh rahay han.
4. islam ma sub ko raey danay ka haq nhe jub ka democracy ma vote sub ka haq hota ha. bulkay Suhaba RA kay time ma tu sirf Muhagir ya Ansar hi pehli saf ma kharay ho saktay thay, or koi khara hota tha tu Suhaba RA pakar kar usay pechaay kar daty thay ka Nabi SAW ka hum ko yahi hukam tha.

i only read no1 but i lold

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

If i get my nick name thingy changed to Blue and pink ill vote yes, for now i shall refrain from voting, as i dont even know what the word "Politics" means so i would rather stay away from what i dont know, but also coz it seems to involve the USA or has something to do with the USA according to the pics a bro posted above (not that i have a prob with Americans) : D :-\

Kittens are soo cute : D

Peace out

[S.Belle]

just want to add few lines about democracy and islam but in urdu (sorry for that). maybe some get benfited about islam ruling. islam and democracy is just opposite things bcz; 1. democracy ki misal is tarh ha kay 100 donkeys agar ek tarf ho jain tu horse ka muqabaly ma un ki baat mani jae gi. 2. islam ma mashwara ha, but mushwara ka ya asule nhe ka jo raey ziada logon ki ho gi wo mani jae gi, bulkay Abubakar RA hay AP SAW kay wisal kay bad sub ki raey ka against Usama RA ka laskar ko rawana kar dia or Hazrat Aysha RA nay fermaya ka agar wo asa na kartay tu islam ka nam-o-nisan mit jata. 3. Islam ma ya nhe ka koi kahay ma ammer bunta hon, balkay jo asa kehta ha to Hadith ma ata ha ka us kay sath ek shatan lug jata ha. islam ma ya ha log ya shoura hud kisi ko agay karian or wo sirf islia man jaey ka sub keh rahay han. 4. islam ma sub ko raey danay ka haq nhe jub ka democracy ma vote sub ka haq hota ha. bulkay Suhaba RA kay time ma tu sirf Muhagir ya Ansar hi pehli saf ma kharay ho saktay thay, or koi khara hota tha tu Suhaba RA pakar kar usay pechaay kar daty thay ka Nabi SAW ka hum ko yahi hukam tha.

will someone translate this please :statisfie

[Beardo]

If I took back the democratic part, would you all accept this idea? -_-

[GuestFellow]

^ I think some members feel democracy is a western concept. I know people have a different idea of what democracy is but I think it is human nature to a certain extent, where the majority decide what happens. Like this poll, the majority will determine whether this new section will be introduced or not.

It will be interesting to see what happens if you took the democratic part out.

[Beardo]

^ I think some members feel democracy is a western concept. I know people have a different idea of what democracy is but I think it is human nature to a certain extent, where the majority decide what happens. Like this poll, the majority will determine whether this new section will be introduced or not.

It will be interesting to see what happens if you took the democratic part out.

I'm considering doing a re-vote, retracting the democratic part of my statement. Horrible word choice on my part.

[Yanal]

Will this idea still commence,if there are more against?

[serena77]

with everything going on... are we seriously voting on the names and the color of our names? Is there something else being included in the poll... i read the first couple of pages and the newest and i'm really confused.
Serena

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Beware, Im going to ramble a bit. . . . . . . . . .

:sl:

I thought I'd post the idea here instead of in the staff sections, just because.

This idea MAY sound a LITTLE childish and immature but I figure it's worth a try, especially after taking my Political Science class this semester. So here's my game plan: (literally, it's a game/role-playing)

Basically, we introduce a Politics section or sub-section onto IslamicBoard. Not only would we discuss politics, but also form our own IB "Government" where we could do one or two or both of the following:
1. To pass/reject/modify IslamicBoard rules (such as the post counts for entering the gender appropriate rooms, introducing/removing new forums, etc etc). We'd also first have a vote on whether we require a 2/3 majority vote or a simple majority vote in order to pass these rules.
2. In addition to the above, we can also have a real government role-playing Democratic thing where we'd also bring in OTHER topics to the table such as globalization, restricting it or even... well, anything political! It'd be our own system, more like assessing the Muslim community and their views. It could work as a research project as well.

This idea is really exciting for me, but it's up to you guys to vote in or out. Not EVERYONE has to join into this. It's just another optional addition onto the forum.

Why exactly? This forum runs well enough as it is, we can discuss, argue, debate in other sections and add polls, all the rest of it. Sure there could be improvements but we can go through the usual channels if we have issues. Do we want the running of this forum to descend into some vulgar popularity contest? And when it comes to matters of Islam do we want it to be subject to our whims and desires. You only have to look at other faiths who have taken that route (particularly liberal faiths) and see how downhill they have gone. Anyway majorities don’t prove whether someone’s right or not in any given issue.

It's fun, educational, and political. It's time we be aware of our surroundings, and this is a great way to learn. Who said Muslims can't be in congress or parliament? At least speaking for us Americans, we have a lot of freedom and rights, Alhamdulillah.

Please bro enough with the ‘freedoms’ and ‘rights’ rhetoric, its like scraping a chalkboard with the fingernails :skeleton:.

Some people need to chilllll

USA! USA!

I applaud the effort, but don't assume he'll listen to reason... It seems like he's bent on believing what he wants to. :(


Anyway, long live America! Long live Democracy! Down with Rashad!!!

U.S.A! U.S.A! Yeahhhh!!!

Ah, this thread has me feeling patriotic :D

Bro Tyrion you talk about reason, well then, give it a rest with the rabid nationalism alright?:raging: Completely unIslamic and nauseating to boot. Man, whatever complaints I might have about the Brits at least they don’t get involved in all that moronic ‘patriotism’ uhhhhhhhhh +o(. Even though I don’t agree with Bro Umar he’s right to voice concerns, particularly how manipulated democracies can become. (eg. In the USA I’m sure you’ve heard of the term 1 dollar 1 vote. Or in Britain they talk about the 'elected dictatorship).

I'm considering doing a re-vote, retracting the democratic part of my statement. Horrible word choice on my part.

Ahhhhhh so if you cant get your way, reword the question ( reminds me of the Lisbon treaty, Irish rejected it, so guess what? They had to vote for it again, this time they said yes though I always wondered what would happen if they rejected it again :p) I see your beginning to master the art of spin and information manipulation, a fine politician you’ll make! :p

I’m sorry if this comes across harsh, I’m not trying to totally trash the idea, and I agree there is plenty to be learned from Western democracies and the way they govern and can apply it to this forum. However Id rather do it in an Islamic manner and according to Islamic traditions, we have to tread carefully lest we lose touch with our faith.

Yes I know, I’ve had a miserable day at work, and I’m feeling moody, apologies if I come across as a bit of a meanie, I dont mean to be :exhausted

[Tyrion]

Bro Tyrion you talk about reason, well then, give it a rest with the rabid nationalism alright?:raging: Completely unIslamic and nauseating to boot. Man, whatever complaints I might have about the Brits at least they don’t get involved in all that moronic ‘patriotism’ uhhhhhhhhh +o(. Even though I don’t agree with Bro Umar he’s right to voice concerns, particularly how manipulated democracies can become. (eg. In the USA I’m sure you’ve heard of the term 1 dollar 1 vote. Or in Britain they talk about the 'elected dictatorship).

I want YOU
to chill out.

[GuestFellow]

:sl:

I love it when everyone takes Brother Tyrion seriously.

[Yanal]

with everything going on... are we seriously voting on the names and the color of our names? Is there something else being included in the poll... i read the first couple of pages and the newest and i'm really confused.
Serena

I don't think we are to get the coloured usernames people are suggesting.

[S.Belle]

Since so many people seem to be oppossed to this idea and want to be Dr. Killjoys (no offense:)) why not just make it into a private group/section. Only people who are invited/request to be involved can see or participate in any of this.
And maybe instead of the whole democratic/politcal thing which seems to be the reason that has gotten some people saying No, why not just start a debate group/section that way its more general...?