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Aishath
11-21-2010, 11:09 AM
Assalaamu Alaykum,

I recently wanted to buy some cakes and looked at the ingredients and saw that it had Lecithin and Emulsifier in it. SOmetimes it says Emulsifier: Soya Lecithin but sometimes it just says lecithin. I was wondering if something just says Lecithin and Emulsifier (and we have no way of knowing whether it came from halal animals or plants) but then it says Suitable for Vegetarians on the front of the box, is it okay for me to consume this product? Just simple because, it is not always possible to contact manufacturers and I figured that if something says Vegetarian, then surely the lecithin or emulsifier was not derived from animal sources.
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tango92
11-21-2010, 01:37 PM
if its suitable for vegies it should be fine... if you trust em of course
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Woodrow
11-21-2010, 02:20 PM
An emulsifier is any product that allows oils and non-oils to mix together such as vinegar and vegetable oil to make mayonnaise. It is a naturally occurring product found in all cells animal and plants. It is found in largest concentrations in egg yolk and in the past egg yolk was the most common emulsifier used. It is also found in large concentrations in soy beans and sun flower seeds. Soy beans being the most common product to extract it from. But as sun flower seed production increases in the USA sun flower seeds are fast becoming the most economical product to extract it from. Nearly all of the world's sun flower seeds come from the USA in the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska and Kansas. Sun flowers are native only to North America and the majority are still grown here. Buying something with lecithin should only be an issue if you are boycotting all American made products lecithin sold any place on earth, most probably came from the USA. Soy lecithin is produced mostly in the USA, Western Europe and Japan.

Beside lecithin other emulsifiers are mono- and di-glycerides of fatty acids esters of monoglycerides of fatty acids and phosphated monoglycerides. Foods using those have to be checked further as they can come from meat oils. Although they most commonly come from vegetable oils.
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Aishath
11-21-2010, 04:41 PM
Thank you.

How about chocolate truffles? Sorry I know this has nothing to do with the original post but just wondering? I recently bought some chocolate truffles with a cookie base (which was the product that contained Soya Lecithin). However, I was wondering if truffles in itself were haram? The ingredients at the back as far as i know are halal (is dried whey halal?).

Also, the whole product is suitable for vegetarians. What do you think?
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Aishath
11-21-2010, 04:45 PM
Oh , I just had a look and chocolate truffles have nothing to do with the truffle (fungus) do they? Because someone told me pigs are used to dig up truffles and i thought that referred to the chocolate ones.

Anyway, the product in question is the Marks and Spencer cookies
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Woodrow
11-21-2010, 05:09 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Oh , I just had a look and chocolate truffles have nothing to do with the truffle (fungus) do they? Because someone told me pigs are used to dig up truffles and i thought that referred to the chocolate ones.

Anyway, the product in question is the Marks and Spencer cookies
If the label is correct they are a purely vegetarian product and should be halal.

Pigs are generally used in France for finding truffles (The Fungus, underground mushroom) but truffles can be found in any temerate zone Oak forests and most people who harvest them outside of France do not use pigs. In the USA in the Oregon area where most are found dogs are used. But the dogs only pinpoint their location by sniffing the ground and the Truffle hunter digs them up by hand.
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Aishath
11-21-2010, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
If the label is correct they are a purely vegetarian product and should be halal.

Well these truffle cookies have a vegetarian sign and it's also form Marks and Spencer so I trust the vegetarian label a lot (i hope anyway lol). How about dried whey? Where does that come from? is that halal (given that the product is vegetarian)?
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Woodrow
11-21-2010, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Well these truffle cookies have a vegetarian sign and it's also form Marks and Spencer so I trust the vegetarian label a lot (i hope anyway lol). How about dried whey? Where does that come from? is that halal (given that the product is vegetarian)?
Whey is the watery part of milk, Curds and whey is what is known in the usa as Cottage cheese. It is halal. It is made commercially by separating milk with a mild acid such as vinegar or lemon juice.
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Beardo
11-21-2010, 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Whey is the watery part of milk, Curds and whey is what is known in the usa as Cottage cheese. It is halal. It is made commercially by separating milk with a mild acid such as vinegar or lemon juice.
So all whey in the US is halal? I've been avoiding it all this time. -_-
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Woodrow
11-21-2010, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
So all whey in the US is halal? I've been avoiding it all this time. -_-
As long as cows milk is halal it should be. It is a natural part of cows milk and separated out to obtain the curds for making into cheese. The cheeses made in this manner should also be halal as no enzymes or rennet are used. Starts off as soured mild, made sour by adding a mild acid usually white vinegar or lemon juice.or in home made kinds the milk is simply allowed to sour naturally.
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Aishath
11-21-2010, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
So all whey in the US is halal? I've been avoiding it all this time. -_-

Lol it's quite confusing sometimes.

Does anyone know anything about soy sauce?
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Insaanah
11-21-2010, 07:06 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Rashad
So all whey in the US is halal? I've been avoiding it all this time. -_-
No. Milk seperates into curds and whey either after acidification eg with citric acid, lemon juice, or vinegar, by naturally going sour, or by renneting. Renneting is most often done commercially, and the rennet is normally from the stomachs of calves (most often not halal). Nowadays though there is an increasing trend to make food suitable for vegetarians. So if a product contains whey and doesn't say vegetarian on it, do not assume it is halal. Contact the manufacturer to find out. I have in the past contacted food manufacturers who confirmed that animal rennet was used in the production of the whey in their product.

:sl:
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Woodrow
11-21-2010, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl:



No. Milk seperates into curds and whey either after acidification eg with citric acid, lemon juice, or vinegar, by naturally going sour, or by renneting. Renneting is most often done commercially, and the rennet is normally from the stomachs of calves (most often not halal). Nowadays though there is an increasing trend to make food suitable for vegetarians. So if a product contains whey and doesn't say vegetarian on it, do not assume it is halal. Contact the manufacturer to find out.

:sl:
Glad you brought that out. I have never used rennet to separate out the whey and neither do the local cheese makers I know. I guess it must be more economical for the large companies, for the small guys vinegar is the cheapest way.
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tango92
11-21-2010, 07:39 PM
on this note, i presume Rashad your looking 4 protein powder? try myprotein.co.uk their whey protein is suitable 4 vegetarians and whey isolate even has a halal certificate. they say they dont have a halal certificate on the whey protein because it costs too much to renew it (ive heard from heresay i think). Allah hu Alim. theyre quite cheap but research em urself 1st. also i can give you my discount number 4 5% off.
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Aishath
11-21-2010, 07:42 PM
I guess we could check to see if it's suitable for vegetarians.

Anyway I'm going to assume my cookies were okay because it was suitable for vegetarians, and had no alcohol listed as an ingredient. There was dried whey which i was unsure about but insha Allah, if it's suitable for vegetarians it's okay. I don't know why i thought all chocolate truffles were haram lol

Edit: lol i was halfway through eating them and felt uncomfortable thinking of alcohol even though it didn't list it at the back cz someone said truffles often have alcohol
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Aishath
11-22-2010, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
If the label is correct they are a purely vegetarian product and should be halal.

Since the product listed no alcohol at the back, is it okay for me to eat them?
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Insaanah
11-22-2010, 10:14 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Aileen
i was halfway through eating them and felt uncomfortable thinking of alcohol even though it didn't list it at the back cz someone said truffles often have alcohol
You do need to be careful, because chocolates can have alcohol contained as part of the flavouring, as a carrier for the flavouring or as a by-product of the flavouring process.

Ingredients that do not have to be listed include those used as processing aids, solvents or media for other additives or flavourings and those that may be present in the final product but serve no technological function in it.

In other words, small quantities of alcohol can be present in the product but the alcohol does not have to be listed. Legally, all that needs to be written is "flavouring."

There is a thread here somewhere about the Rubicon Juice drinks which the manufacturer states contain up to 0.05% alcohol, which results from the flavouring process. This alcohol is not listed as an ingredient.

The Thorntons brand of chocolates are very good; apart from writing "suitable for vegetarians" on appropriate products , they also write "free from alcohol" on those of their products that contain no alcohol at all.
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Aishath
11-23-2010, 12:36 PM
I am doubtig everything so much now. I am normally very paranoid but literally everything feels off limits at the moment. Does anyone know if dried glucose syrup is ok? (its sometimes an ingredient in Bachelors super noodles that are suitable for vegetarians). I just had one and now all i can think of is, did it have alcohol even though it seems so far fetched to think super noodles could have alcohol
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tango92
11-23-2010, 03:26 PM
as a general rule if the alcohol content is not enough to intoxicate you then it is not haram.
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Woodrow
11-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
I am doubtig everything so much now. I am normally very paranoid but literally everything feels off limits at the moment. Does anyone know if dried glucose syrup is ok? (its sometimes an ingredient in Bachelors super noodles that are suitable for vegetarians). I just had one and now all i can think of is, did it have alcohol even though it seems so far fetched to think super noodles could have alcohol
It is wonderful to be cautious but there is no need to be paranoid. Have trust that the labeling is honest. Make an honest effort to avoid what is forbidden but remember you can not prove all things and for much we have to place trust that the labeling is correct and we need not go out of our way to find reasons to assume everything is haram.

There is no need to take extraordinary steps that hinder our lives. Simply use common senseand avoid the obvious haram and question that which gives you reason to doubt. Reading the labels and searching through halal listings of foods is showing your intent is to be halal. If you turn things into a witch hunt, you will soon find possible reason to think every food has the possibility of being haram. Trust in the labeling and if in doubt Check an online listing of haram brands and see if the product is named there.

A good Reference to download as a PDF file The PDF download will automatically begin when you click the link=HERE
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Aishath
11-23-2010, 06:54 PM
Thanks :)
With regards to the truffles anyway, I contacted the manufacturer and found out there is no alcohol in the truffles and they are also suited for veggies so insha Allah, I have taken measures to make sure they are halal and hopefully are.

Thank you for the link as well :) I am going to try and to take a step back and calm down and just read the back of things and then make up my mind based on that.
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Aishath
11-28-2010, 09:01 PM
Assalaamu alaikum,

Does anyone know if Glucose syrup and spirit vinegar are both halal?

Thank you for your time. I found out online that glucose is halal so I am assuming that glucose syrup and dried glucose syrup are also halal?
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Woodrow
12-03-2010, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Assalaamu alaikum,

Does anyone know if Glucose syrup and spirit vinegar are both halal?

Thank you for your time. I found out online that glucose is halal so I am assuming that glucose syrup and dried glucose syrup are also halal?
Glucose is simply natural sugar. Substitute the word sugar for glucose and your answer will be obvious. so yes sugar, sugar syrup and dried sugar syrup are halal. A person would have to go out ot their way to make them haram. If you are getting the pure product with no additives you are basically getting plant sap usually fron Sugar Cane, corn or sugar palm.

Spirit vinegar is natural vinegar and until recent times was the only vinegar available. The common distilled white vinegar of today is not true vinegar is is diluted acetic acid the acetic acid is synthesized from Acetylene gas then distilled to obtain 100% pure acetic acid which is then diluted with water to a level of 2% and sold as vinegar. If properly made spirit vinegar will be the same as the vinegar used by the Prophet(PBUT). It is fairly simple to make and since it is safe to assume the manufacturer intended to make vinegar and not wine it should be halal. Sometimes people who make homemade wine accidentally end up with vinegar instead of wine, that vinegar would be haram as the intent was to make wine not vinegar.
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Aishath
12-08-2010, 12:59 AM
Thank you Brother. I hope you don't mind me clarifying a few more doubts. I was wondering if goat cheese was halal? :S I'm assuming it is since goat meat is halal as far as I know. (I'll find out if the goat cheese is suitable for veggies obviously)

Also as far as I know antichokes and aubergines are vegetarian. I know these items are probably halal but they are just things I've not come across before as far as I can remember anyway (since I'm such a picky eater).

Also, what's the verdict on prawns? From what I understand it is either halal or makruh but not haram to eat? Does makruh mean it is not a sin but best to stay away from it?
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Woodrow
12-08-2010, 01:53 AM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Thank you Brother. I hope you don't mind me clarifying a few more doubts. I was wondering if goat cheese was halal? :S I'm assuming it is since goat meat is halal as far as I know. (I'll find out if the goat cheese is suitable for veggies obviously)

Also as far as I know antichokes and aubergines are vegetarian. I know these items are probably halal but they are just things I've not come across before as far as I can remember anyway (since I'm such a picky eater).

Also, what's the verdict on prawns? From what I understand it is either halal or makruh but not haram to eat? Does makruh mean it is not a sin but best to stay away from it?
Here it will depend on if rennet was used to make it. If rennet was not used, it would most likely be halal as vinegar or lemon juice are the most common options. If rennet was used in making it then you will need to find out if the rennet was halal.
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Insaanah
12-08-2010, 04:34 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Aileen
Also, what's the verdict on prawns? From what I understand it is either halal or makruh but not haram to eat?
The Ruling on Prawns in the Hanafi School Question #: q-15392197
Date Posted: 2004-03-04

<QUESTION>
Are prawns Halal according to the Hanafi's?

<ANSWER>
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,
The permissibility of eating prawns or otherwise (according to the Hanafi School of thought) depends on whether they are considered to be from the fish family or not.

Many scholars of the Arabic language like Imam al-Zabidi, Fayrozabadi and others have considered prawns to be fish. On the other hand, the contemporary zoologists do not consider prawns to be fish, as they do not have a spine.

Normally, the ruling of such issues is not based on technical research, rather it is based upon the understanding of the common people, and we have learnt that according to the understanding of the scholars of the Arabic language, prawns are considered fish.

Moreover, according to the other three schools of Fiqh (i.e. Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali), to eat prawns is totally permissible, which makes a leniency in the ruling.

Therefore it is permissible to eat prawns, but to refrain and abstain is always advisable.

And Allah Knows Best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK
Source: http://www.daruliftaa.com/question.a...nID=q-15392197

Originally Posted by Aileen
Does makruh mean it is not a sin but best to stay away from it?
Yes.

Praise be to Allaah.

Makrooh in Arabic means the opposite of liked or loved.

In the terminology of sharee’ah it means that which the Lawgiver asks us not to do, but not in a definitive manner. It may be said that it means that the person who does not do it out of obedience will be rewarded, but the one who does it will not be punished.
Extracted from source: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/9084

:sl:
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Aishath
12-09-2010, 12:44 PM
AlhamduLillah,

Thank you for your help.

Does anyone know what porcini oil is? And field mushrooms are just normal mushrooms aren't they
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Woodrow
12-10-2010, 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
AlhamduLillah,

Thank you for your help.

Does anyone know what porcini oil is? And field mushrooms are just normal mushrooms aren't they
Use caution with field mushrooms. That simply means they were harvested in the wild. Know who harvested them. there are thousands of varieties of mushrooms, many are poisonous. Use either commercially raised Mushrooms or those gathered by somebody you know who is an expert in identifying them.

Porcini oil is olive oil flavored with oil from Porcini Mushrooms. A Boletus variety the best of which come from Italy. Adds a flavor that is nearly identical to the best truffles. Very good tasting, almost a roasted Chestnut type flavor. Many myself included consider them to be much better than truffles.

A bit of trivia while not all varieties of Boletus are edible, the none edible varieties are easy to recognize also none of the non-edible ones are actually dangerous, worse scenario is in some people they can cause an upset stomach. But the non-edible ones are easy to recognize and taste horrible.
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Aishath
12-13-2010, 10:41 PM
Thank you :)

I hope you don't think of me as rude for continuing to clarify doubts. This is really helping me though.

What exactly is ethyl alcohol? I keep finding it in different things. Krispy Kreme doughnuts are meant to have like 0.02% of it (I'm form UK btw). I recently bought ready made puff pastry and it had ethyl alcohol in it. What exactly is it? Is it permissible?
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Woodrow
12-14-2010, 04:06 AM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Thank you :)

I hope you don't think of me as rude for continuing to clarify doubts. This is really helping me though.

What exactly is ethyl alcohol? I keep finding it in different things. Krispy Kreme doughnuts are meant to have like 0.02% of it (I'm form UK btw). I recently bought ready made puff pastry and it had ethyl alcohol in it. What exactly is it? Is it permissible?
Ethyl Alcohol is Ethanol better known as: Booze, Moonshine, Everclear, Bathtub Gin,

!00 proof Vodka is 50% Ethanol 50% water. Wine is typically 7% to 14% Ethanol, Beer is 3.2% up to 5% Ethanol. Stout is 10% I think.

Ethyl alcohol is the bad stuff that is haram.
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Aishath
12-15-2010, 01:37 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Ethyl alcohol is the bad stuff that is haram.

Does this mean Krispy Kremes are not okay then? :S It said on the website that it had 0.02% alcohol probably...but then I opened another thread and someone said it's probably okay and also, I've seen muslims eat it on campus as well... (from UK)

http://www.krispykreme.co.uk/doughnu...ritional-info/
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-15-2010, 07:29 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Use caution with field mushrooms. That simply means they were harvested in the wild. Know who harvested them. there are thousands of varieties of mushrooms, many are poisonous. Use either commercially raised Mushrooms or those gathered by somebody you know who is an expert in identifying them.
thats true. correct me if im wrong, but the mushrooms which have black gills are edible but the ones with white gills are poisonous. or does it depend of your locality.
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Woodrow
12-15-2010, 11:33 AM
Originally Posted by Ummu Sufyaan
thats true. correct me if im wrong, but the mushrooms which have black gills are edible but the ones with white gills are poisonous. or does it depend of your locality.
There is no clear cut guide for any general rule to determine what mush rooms are edible. Mycology is a very complex science and absolute identification of any fungi reuires a microscope study of the spores. But it is known that the deadliest of mushrooms has white gills these are mushrooms in the amantia family such as the "Death Angel"



So by avoiding white gill is a good way to avoid eating an amantia.


However there are some very delicious edible mushrooms that have white gills such as the "Oyster Mushroom"



Leave mushroom gathering to the commercial growers or the experts in choosing field harvested. mushrooms. Most people these days live in cities and have not developed the skills for food foraging.

I have lived much of my life living out in the country side and so far I can only identify one edible wild Mushroom with absolute certainty.
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Aishath
01-01-2011, 07:34 PM
Asalaamu alaykum,

Does anyone know if Oyster Sauce is halal? The one I have is by the company Blue Dragon and it does not state that it is suitable for vegetarians. I don't know if you can actually get oyster sauce suitable for veggies?

Actually is all shellfish halal? Is there any that we can't eat really? My understanding is that anything from the sea is halal?

Also what about soy sauce? I keep seeing that naturally brewed soy sauce is not halal? How about the Amoy light soy sauce? It states that it is naturally brewed but has added colouring and flavour enhancers to it and I also bought it from the local halal store. I'm feeling really bad because I know naturally brewed soy sauce is not halal and yet because I bought this from the halal shop, I ate it assuming it would be halal (and also because it seemed to have more ingredients to it such as favlour enhancers and colouring) which I read that natural soy sauce wouldn't have. I probably shouldn't have eaten it but I think hunger impaired my judgment, and the fact that I bought it from a halal store. I'm really worried it might have alcohol in it now. :(
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Woodrow
01-02-2011, 02:18 AM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Asalaamu alaykum,

Does anyone know if Oyster Sauce is halal? The one I have is by the company Blue Dragon and it does not state that it is suitable for vegetarians. I don't know if you can actually get oyster sauce suitable for veggies?

Actually is all shellfish halal? Is there any that we can't eat really? My understanding is that anything from the sea is halal?

Also what about soy sauce? I keep seeing that naturally brewed soy sauce is not halal? How about the Amoy light soy sauce? It states that it is naturally brewed but has added colouring and flavour enhancers to it and I also bought it from the local halal store. I'm feeling really bad because I know naturally brewed soy sauce is not halal and yet because I bought this from the halal shop, I ate it assuming it would be halal (and also because it seemed to have more ingredients to it such as favlour enhancers and colouring) which I read that natural soy sauce wouldn't have. I probably shouldn't have eaten it but I think hunger impaired my judgment, and the fact that I bought it from a halal store. I'm really worried it might have alcohol in it now. :(
I could be wrong but I suspect some scholars consider soy sauce haram is because it is "Brewed" "Fermented" terms that are usually associated with the making of alcohol beverages. But coffee and tea are also brewed. And Sour Kraut is fermented. Some scholars do not considered it haram as like vinegar the finished product has no alcohol

The making of soy sauce is very similar to the making of vinegar. However no drinkable wine is produced in the process. At no stage is the soy sauce ever drinkable as a beverage. The final stage in soy sauce results in the alcohol becoming lactic acid, where it differs from vinegar as in vinegar the last stage is acetic acid.

However any question can be avoided by buying the hydrolyzed soy sauce which is produced much like white vinegar and never goes through a fermentation process.

For more information about soy sauce check SOURCE
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Aishath
01-02-2011, 04:01 PM
Asalaamu alaykum,

Thank you brother Woodrow. I have to say, you have been extremely helpful in helping me clarify my food issues.
Originally Posted by Woodrow
At no stage is the soy sauce ever drinkable as a beverage. The final stage in soy sauce results in the alcohol becoming lactic acid, where it differs from vinegar as in vinegar the last stage is acetic acid.
Oh this makes more sense now. What do you suggest I do with the food I already cooked though :S Should I throw it out? I cooked some fried rice with soya sauce in it. I have contacted Amoy the company I used but don't really think they will be able to say anything different... I feel a bit bad about throwing out food but then I don't know if I should eat it either... :S
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Aishath
01-02-2011, 05:47 PM
Sorry to be bothering you so much brother but I had another question.

I bought these Morrisons Jaffa Cakes for my friend back home and I contacted Morrisons which made the products and they said the product has no alcohol. It also states that it is suitable for vegetarians. I am going to pack them up now and insha Allah will post them tomorrow.

However, I still checked up the ingredients and one of them was Humectin (glycerol) which kept coming up as questionable or mushbooh. One website said that this is questionable since it may be produced from animal fats, synthesized from propylene or from fermentation of sugar. Halal if the source is synthetic or from plant sources.

I ruled out the animal fats one cz it's a suitable for vegetarians product but I have no idea what the bits I highlighted in bold mean. Since the product overall is suitable for vegetarians and the supermarket that produced them confirmed it as having no alcohol, is it okay for me to send them off to my Muslim friend back home? :S
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Aishath
01-04-2011, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
What do you suggest I do with the food I already cooked though :S Should I throw it out? I cooked some fried rice with soya sauce in it.
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Because if it stays there much longer, I will have to throw it out and I'm not sure if that's what I am meant to do...
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S.Belle
01-04-2011, 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Because if it stays there much longer, I will have to throw it out and I'm not sure if that's what I am meant to do...
Throw it out

Narrated / Authority Of: Al-Hasan bin Ali
who said : I memorized from the messenger of Allah his saying : "Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt." narrated by Termithi and Nasaee, and Tirmithi said it is true and fine hadith.
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Aishath
01-04-2011, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Mila
Throw it out
Thanks. Aah gonna have to go on the hunt for more Soya sauce now. I might ask at the halal shop at some point how it got to be in the shop and if it's halal approved ....
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Aishath
01-28-2011, 11:07 PM
Salaam,

I was wondering if someone could explain to me about spirit vinegar? I have read it to be halal but just to confirm please.

Thank you.
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Hamza Asadullah
01-29-2011, 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Salaam,

I was wondering if someone could explain to me about spirit vinegar? I have read it to be halal but just to confirm please.

Thank you.
Asalaamu Alaikum,


Spirit and Wine Vinegar



Q: I would be grateful if you could tell me whether spirit vinegar and wine vinegar are halal. I remember reading somewhere that because of the chemical process involved in distiling the vinegar it was not considered alcohol. Is this true?


A: It is true. Spirit and wine vinegar, both are halal.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai, www.ask-imam.com
FATWA DEPT.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is spirit vinegar halal to consume?
Answered by Shaykh Faraz Rabbani


Q) Is spirit vinegar halal to consume?


A) Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah,
Vinegar is permitted even if its origin is spirits or wine, and even if it did not transform by itself but required an external agent. [Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar]

And Allah alone gives success.
Wassalam,

Faraz Rabbani


The Encyclopaedia Britannica states:

Vinegar

sour liquid that is made by the fermentation of any of numerous dilute alcoholic liquids into a liquid containing acetic acid. Vinegar may be produced from a variety of materials: apples or grapes (wine or cider vinegar); malted barley or oats (malt vinegar); and industrial alcohol (distilled white vinegar). There are also vinegars made from beer, sugars, rice, and other substances. As a commercial product, however, vinegar was probably first made from wine (French vin, “wine”; aigre, “sour”).


Vinegar can be made from any liquid that is capable of being converted into alcohol in a two-step process. The fruit juice or other liquid contains sugar, which is converted into alcohol and carbon dioxide gas by the actions of yeast enzymes. The alcohol thus formed combines with atmospheric oxygen by the action of Acetobacter bacteria, forming acetic acid and water. Organic acids and esters derived from the fruit or other source material are also present and are responsible for the flavour and aroma variations of vinegar. Table vinegar contains approximately 4 percent acetic acid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Is spirit vinegar Halaal or Haraam?




Vinegar is produced by two successive microbial processes. The first being an alcoholic fermentation (which is Haraam) and the second an oxidation of alcohol by aceto bacter, when it's molecular structure is changed and it ceases to be an intoxicant. Other varieties of vinegar are produced from beetroot, tarragon and alcoholic spirits. In vinegar the intoxicating factor is destroyed by the microbial process of oxidation hence it becomes permissible. Islam permits any variety of vinegar to be used as a condiment or preservative. (Muslim Food Guide - Page A26/27)



Allah SWT Knows Best
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Q7: What is Spirit Vinegar, does it contain alcohol?


(http://www.heinzfoodservice.co.uk/faqs.aspx#)


A: Spirit Vinegar is made from molasses. This is made into spirit by distillation and the substrate or residue is removed. This spirit is called such because it is an alcoholic preparation with no characterising components. The spirit is then fermented completely to acetic acid. The product does not contain alcohol.

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The European Council for Fatwa and Research Resolution 7/4
The ruling of Vinegar manufactured from alcohol


http://www.e-cfr.org/PDF/eng/Fatwa/Fatwa_e02.pdf
pg 54


[council members = http://www.e-cfr.org/eng/article.php?sid=48]

Fatwa (30)


The ruling of Vinegar manufactured from alcohol

The Council ruled that if alcohol naturally becomes vinegar then it is Halal and pure(Tahir), by virtue of the consensus of scholars. However, scholars differed regardingif it became vinegar as a result of deliberate processing and treatment, such as adding salt, bread or a particular chemical. Some said that it is pure and may be used as it has completely transformed from the original state of being alcohol. Others said that it does not become pure and may not be used, because we are commanded to stay away from alcohol. Having considered both opinions, the European Council for Fatwa and concluded that the first opinion which states that vinegar made deliberately from alcohol is pure and may be used, is correct.


This is because acetification, i.e.making something into a vinegar, removes the element which makes alcohol principally haram, namely; intoxication, and thus becomes permissible, particularly that there are many benefits to be gained from vinegar such as medicine, food and others. It is important to note that any ruling is entirely bound by the reason and wisdom and in the case of vinegar, we realise that the element of intoxication has been completely eliminated.


This is affirmed by the hadith of the Prophet Mohammed (ppbuh): "What a good seasoning vinegar is"47, without specifying the kind or type of vinegar. We also note that the Prophet (ppbuh) did not order us to seek the origin of the vinegar nor to make any enquiries in that respect. As for the statements whichstate the prohibition of acetification, these are to demonstrate the firm position ofIslam in regards with alcohol itself, so that no one becomes complacent in this regard.

[Resolution 7/4]

47 Narrated by Muslim (No.2051), Al-Tirmizi (No.1840) and Ibn Maja (No.3316) from the hadith of Aisha. Muslim also narrated the hadith (No.2052) as did Abu Dawood (No.3821), Al-Tirmizi (No.1842), Al-Nasa’i (No.3796) and Ibn Maja (No.3317) from the hadith of Jaber ibn Abdullah.

And Allah Knows Best in all matters
Reply

Aishath
08-09-2011, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
The making of soy sauce is very similar to the making of vinegar. However no drinkable wine is produced in the process. At no stage is the soy sauce ever drinkable as a beverage. The final stage in soy sauce results in the alcohol becoming lactic acid, where it differs from vinegar as in vinegar the last stage is acetic acid.
Assalaamu alaykum,

Brother I wanted to clarify something regarding soy sauce. I have heard that the Kikkoman brand soy sauce contains alcohol. However I have found out that in Maldives which is a Muslim country they are selling Kikkoman brand soy sauce. It says it is naturally brewed like fine wine at the back. Everything in the shops here seem to be halal really (most have halal symbols even). So does this mean the soy sauce might be okay then? I know that they can produce it alcohol free as well. It was brewed in SIngapore which is why I thought it might be halal. My family is eating food containing this soy sauce although I haven't been able to bring myself to eat anything with this soysauce in it.

I don't really know what to do. Is this okay?
Reply

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