The order of Allah's creation - problem

[karimmohsen]

Assalam w Alaykum brothers and sisters,
I was reading the "The islamic educatiOn series" and it said that Allah first created water and then the thrown, and then the guarded tablet and then the upper pen. No problem with that, but it says that the Guarded Tablet is a white pearl and the edges are made out of red ruby....
After, it says that Allah created the earth, the Seven Heavens and at last , rivers , mountains and the like.
So my question is : how can the Guarded Tablet be created with white pearl and red ruby if those rocks ans elements were put on earth after the creation of the earth which is later than the creation of the Guarded Tablet.
Thank you very much

[Woodrow]

:sl:

The only problem is I do not understand how you see it is a problem.

Can you think of any reason Allaah(swt) did not sometimes create the same materials at different times in different places.

Why would, after the Earth is created, have to be the only time Pearls and Rubies were created?

[siam]

not everything is literal---sometimes a "similitude" is used.
I would reccomend you double check eveything with what the Quran actually says......

[karimmohsen]

To woodrow:
I see it as a problem because it not logic..

To siam:
It is from the hadith, so i dont know where to check

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[Woodrow]

To woodrow:
I see it as a problem because it not logic..

Most Rubies of today are man made and most pearls are cultivated. So following your logic what was the need in Allaah(swt) creating them in nature as one day they would be readily available from man made sources?



Following that line of logic would mean man could not make ice cubes until the invention of the freezer. Yet ice cubes were used to cool beverages in Ancient China and Japan.

But regarding Brother siam's post and knowing the source is from the Ahadith, it would be best to think of it as being a metaphorical and not literal meaning.

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Assalam w Alaykum brothers and sisters,
I was reading the "The islamic educatiOn series" and it said that Allah first created water and then the thrown, and then the guarded tablet and then the upper pen. No problem with that, but it says that the Guarded Tablet is a white pearl and the edges are made out of red ruby....
After, it says that Allah created the earth, the Seven Heavens and at last , rivers , mountains and the like.
So my question is : how can the Guarded Tablet be created with white pearl and red ruby if those rocks ans elements were put on earth after the creation of the earth which is later than the creation of the Guarded Tablet.
Thank you very much

Wa`Alaaykum Salaam

Are you not aware that Allaah is able to do all things except that of which does not suit his majesty?!?!

[Ramadhan]

I was reading the "The islamic educatiOn series" and it said that Allah first created water and then the thrown, and then the guarded tablet and then the upper pen. No problem with that, but it says that the Guarded Tablet is a white pearl and the edges are made out of red ruby....
After, it says that Allah created the earth, the Seven Heavens and at last , rivers , mountains and the like.
So my question is : how can the Guarded Tablet be created with white pearl and red ruby if those rocks ans elements were put on earth after the creation of the earth which is later than the creation of the Guarded Tablet.
Thank you very much

I am surprised you only focused on the white pearl and the white ruby and you did not raise question about the water, the throne, the guarded tablet and the upper pen.

Using your line of thinking, those things only started to exist after earth was created, right?

[karimmohsen]

no, i know water was the first thing created, but how can ruby and pearl be on the pen if ruby and pearl comes from the earth, which was created after..

[جوري]

no, i know water was the first thing created, but how can ruby and pearl be on the pen if ruby and pearl comes from the earth, which was created after..

who said that rubies and pearls exist only on earth? You should read the Quran sometimes.. many things we have here on earth are actually from heaven, like the Euphrates, the Nile, the black stone etc.

you seem like a silly kid with non-questions!

all the best

[Woodrow]

no, i know water was the first thing created, but how can ruby and pearl be on the pen if ruby and pearl comes from the earth, which was created after..

Dear Brother, I believe you are confusing making things and creating things. If Allaah(swt) was limited to the making of things, you would be correct. He would have to wait for the material to be created before he made them. But, Allaah(swt) is the creator, he needs no raw materials to make what he desires to make, he need only to command for it to be and it will be. Coming from nothing in it's finished form, with no material needed to create from.


Man can make and build many wonderous things with material that Allaah(swt) has created. Man would have to wait for the creation of raw materials before he could make/build Rubies, pearls, thrones pens or anything else.

Allaah(swt) needs no created materials to produce anything, he alone has the power to cause it to exist because he commands it to be, he has no need to make or build it from existing material.

[جوري]

Is alkawthar a river in paradise? I believe so..


"Whilst I was walking in Paradise I saw a river whose banks were domes of hollow pearls, and I asked, "What is this, O Jibreel?" He said, "This is al-Kawthar which your Rabb has given to you". And its scent - or its mud -was of fragrant musk".

Hudbah [one of the narrators] was not sure if he said tib [scent] or teen [mud]. [Sahih al-Bukhaari, Kitaab ar-Riqaaq, Baab fil Hawd, Fath al-Baari, 11/464]


al-Haafidh ibn Katheer compiled a number of hadith [anNihaayah, 2/246] in which the Prophet (saw) spoke about al-Kawthar, such as the report narrated by Muslim from Anas, which states that when the aayah "Verily We have granted you al-Kawthar" [108] was revealed, the Prophet (saw) said, "Do you know what al-Kawthar is?" They said, "Allaah and His Messenger know best". He said, "It is a river that Allaah (swt) has promised me and in it is much goodness".

He also quoted the hadith narrated by Ahmad from Anas, according to which the Prophet (Saw) said, "I have been given al-Kawthar, which is a river flowing across the face of the earth; its banks are domes of pearl and it is not covered. I touched its mud with my hand, and found that it was fragrant musk and its pebbles were pearls".

[Ramadhan]

no, i know water was the first thing created, but how can ruby and pearl be on the pen if ruby and pearl comes from the earth, which was created after..

ummm...
did you know that water molecules only appeared in this universe billions of years after the big bang?
do you not see a big problem in your own dispute?
why disputing ruby and pearl while ignoring water?

You assume that Allah should only be able to make pen out of ruby and pearl after they appear on earth?

your logic is way out of control, dude.

As brother Woodrow has said, Allah is The Creator, not maker or builder.

And who's to say that our universe is the only or the first that Allah has created?

And Allah could have created everything that is in this universe BEFORE the creation of this universe, and then repeat the creation.

[karimmohsen]

who said that rubies and pearls exist only on earth? You should read the Quran sometimes.. many things we have here on earth are actually from heaven, like the Euphrates, the Nile, the black stone etc.

you seem like a silly kid with non-questions!

all the best

calm down man, im just confused, you dont have to make fun of me. islam tells us to reflect and to act, so i just asked a question nothing more

[siam]

It is great that you are asking questions.....I would also suggest that you reflect and question the Quran first before tackling the science of hadith.......

this is only my opinion---but with the internet---people just download translated hadith and then proceed to interpret/argue on it---but actually, this is a complex field and much research and study is required.......and the first foundation must be in knowledge and understanding of the Quran......

[Saad17]

Guarded Tablet is a white pearl and the edges are made out of red ruby....

Wa alaaykum salaam

I would suggest that maybe the white pearl and red ruby are not ordinary white pearls and red rubies as we see.
Remember in Paradise we will be given similar fruits but they will taste different as the Quran says so its quite possible that these are not ordinary white pearls and red rubies we are talking about.

[IAmZamzam]

The "pen" is God's record of everything that happens in the universe. The "throne" is God's central focal point for the angels and for the humans in Paradise. The "guarded tablet" is the unalterable Word of God. I don't know about water. Point is, you need to get a sense for spotting things that are just the nearest equivalent in objects or language we know (or that they knew in seventh-century Arabia) for objects and equivalents that we don't know. What kind of energy is the Koran roughly describing the djinn being made of when it says "smokeless fire"? You don't think it really means "flames, only flames with no smoke", do you? Not only is that scientifically impossible, the djinn wouldn't even be invisible.

[Al-manar]

Assalam w Alaykum brothers and sisters,
I was reading the "The islamic educatiOn series" and it said that Allah first created water and then the thrown, and then the guarded tablet and then the upper pen. No problem with that, but it says that the Guarded Tablet is a white pearl and the edges are made out of red ruby....

Alaikomalsalam Bro karim ... May Allah bless you and those open minded muslims who prefer to use their critical minds before they swallow everything they read...

the narration you refer to is narrated in both , the collection of Imam Al-Tabarani which named Al-Mu'jam al-Kabeer and Tafsir al-Baghawi ...it is classified as Hadith mawquf , and to take a belief with absolute certainity from such kind of narration is exaggeration...

peace