PDA

View Full Version : So much for hitler



Watcher888
12-24-2010, 08:47 AM
being a Christian!

Hitler's Christmas party: Rare photographs capture leading Nazis celebrating in 1941


Daily Mail.


By Alan Hall.
Last updated at 10:30 PM on 23rd December 2010

A less festive bunch it’s hard to imagine.
This is Hitler and his henchmen celebrating Christmas in 1941 – not that you’d know it from their glum expressions.
These probably had something to do with the recent dispiriting failure of Nazi attempts to seize Moscow and take control of Russia.

High command: Adolf Hitler and other Nazi officials celebrate Christmas at the Lowenbraukeller restaurant in Munich on December 18, 1941


Sons of the swastika: Cadets at the feast



The pictures from December 18, which have only just come to light, show Hitler and his generals at a party for SS officer cadets in Munich.

But the Nazi Christmas was far from traditional.

Hitler believed religion had no place in his 1,000-year Reich, so he replaced the Christian figure of Saint Nicholas with the Norse god Odin and urged Germans to celebrate the season as a holiday of the ‘winter solstice’, rather than Christmas.

Out of sight at the top of the tree behind Hitler was a swastika instead of an angel, and many of the baubles carried runic symbols and iron cross motifs. The remarkable pictures were captured by Hugo Jaeger, one of the Fuhrer’s personal photographers.
He buried the images in glass jars on the outskirts of Munich towards the end of the war, fearing that they would be taken away from him.
Later he sold them to Life Magazine in America which published many of them this week.
Other photographs show brownshirt thugs drinking beer.


In 1944-1945, the Nazis tried to reinvent Christmas once again as a day to commemorate the dead, in particular fallen soldiers – by that time Germany had lost almost four million men in the war.
But while many Germans baked biscuits and cakes in the shape of swastikas and adorned their trees with the symbols of the Nazi regime, most still called the festival Christmas.
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Zafran
12-24-2010, 03:55 PM
whats with the obsession with Hitler? who cares what he did in christmas.
Reply

'Abd Al-Maajid
12-24-2010, 04:01 PM
WHERE ARE THE PICTURES?! I want to see 'em? :p
Reply

Perseveranze
12-24-2010, 09:37 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Just wondering... does Christian teachings mean he will go to Heavan if he believed in Jesus Christ as his saviour?
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
aadil77
12-24-2010, 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Just wondering... does Christian teachings mean he will go to Heavan if he believed in Jesus Christ as his saviour?
and to add to that, will he go to heaven unpunished as Jesus (peace be upon him) according to christians died for his sins?
Reply

GuestFellow
12-24-2010, 09:52 PM
:sl:

Good for Hitler. I wanted to see Hitler dressed as Santa.
Reply

Watcher888
12-28-2010, 10:51 AM
Originally Posted by Zafran
whats with the obsession with Hitler? who cares what he did in christmas.
No obsession whatsoever from me!

I posted this to counter the claim that is put about, that hitler was a Christian!

This claim is very often used as propaganda!
Reply

Watcher888
12-28-2010, 11:02 AM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Just wondering... does Christian teachings mean he will go to Heavan if he believed in Jesus Christ as his saviour?
Do you have information that hitler repented and put faith in the sacrifice of Jesus before he topped himself in his bunker!

And do you seriously think that hitler's attempted genocide of the Jews, and many others who did not fit in with the 'master race' philosophy, are the actions of a Christian or are Christianity in action!

These a rhetorical questions by the way!



Reply

Ramadhan
12-28-2010, 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by
And do you seriously think that hitler's attempted genocide of the Jews, and many others who did not fit in with the 'master race' philosophy, are the actions of a Christian or are Christianity in action!

Well, who are you to judge that Hitler was not a christian?

Remember those christian priests and pastors and nuns in rwanda who actually directly killed and/or helped killing a million of people?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember the countless christian priests and pastors who enjoy the company of really young boys?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember George Bush who lied through his teeth and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process killing a million of innocents?
He is a very devout baptist and claimed the invasions were "just" (in the name of God) wars.
unless you do not think baptists are christians?

Do you want me to list names through history of "famous" christians?

Just because you think they are not christian enough does not mean they are not.

:)
Reply

Watcher888
12-28-2010, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar
Well, who are you to judge that Hitler was not a christian?

Remember those christian priests and pastors and nuns in rwanda who actually directly killed and/or helped killing a million of people?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember the countless christian priests and pastors who enjoy the company of really young boys?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember George Bush who lied through his teeth and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process killing a million of innocents?
He is a very devout baptist and claimed the invasions were "just" (in the name of God) wars.
unless you do not think baptists are christians?

Do you want me to list names through history of "famous" christians?

Just because you think they are not christian enough does not mean they are not.

:)
I think you will find that your examples are of 'religious hypocrites' who are just christians in name!
And are false and deluded!

Show me an example of such things in the New Testament, any teaching or doctrine?

Just because you think they are not christian enough does not mean they are not.
The bible says of such people:


  • Revelation 21:8
    But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
  • Revelation 22:15
    Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.




Galatians 5:13-25 (New International Version, ©2010)

Life by the Spirit

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version, ©2010)

True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Reply

M.I.A.
12-28-2010, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by naidamar
Well, who are you to judge that Hitler was not a christian?

Remember those christian priests and pastors and nuns in rwanda who actually directly killed and/or helped killing a million of people?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember the countless christian priests and pastors who enjoy the company of really young boys?
Surely they are christians through and through, even though you do not think that their actions are "christianity"

Remember George Bush who lied through his teeth and invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and in the process killing a million of innocents?
He is a very devout baptist and claimed the invasions were "just" (in the name of God) wars.
unless you do not think baptists are christians?

Do you want me to list names through history of "famous" christians?

Just because you think they are not christian enough does not mean they are not.

:)
we should also remember those that are hijacking islam.. let us not make them as powerful as the bushes eh.. although there paths have crossed already.

anyway those christians you remembered are just christian in name.. doubt any turned the other cheek much.. doubt anybody has in 2000 odd years.

anyway this is why i am not with the majority in any of my views,
these days when they are written in history should not be of militants, insurgance and terrorists. when they write them they should be of the slaughter of the innocent and we do not act as though we are innocent.
when we truly give up on everything and leave it to god, then we will know exactly what our god was and on that day the wronge doers own hands will be there undoing.

whats the worst that could happen?
Reply

aadil77
12-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Watcher888
Do you have information that hitler repented and put faith in the sacrifice of Jesus before he topped himself in his bunker!


Why does he need to repent, surely prophet Jesus died for his sins so he goes to heaven regardless of what he's done cause he's already forgiven?

Justice can't get any better
Reply

Perseveranze
12-28-2010, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by Watcher888
Do you have information that hitler repented and put faith in the sacrifice of Jesus before he topped himself in his bunker!

And do you seriously think that hitler's attempted genocide of the Jews, and many others who did not fit in with the 'master race' philosophy, are the actions of a Christian or are Christianity in action!

These a rhetorical questions by the way!


Asalaamu Alaikum(peace be with you),

Firstly, calm down. Re-read what I said;

Just wondering... does Christian teachings mean he will go to Heavan if he believed in Jesus Christ as his saviour?
But I've already asked other Christians, they said if he repented and took Christ as his "saviour" then by that logic he would go to Heaven.

You may want to deny that, but then who's "Sins" did Jesus supposedly die for? A sin is a sin, unless there are some Sins that are too great that even the great God Jesus can't die for?
Reply

titus
12-29-2010, 09:08 AM
According to Christianity if he truly repented and believed that Jesus was his savior, then yes he would go to Heaven. Anyone want to place any wagers on if he truly repented?

Are the teachings of Islam much different? Can someone not lead a sinful life, and at the end if they truly repent and say the Shahada and truly mean it will they not go to Heaven?

Who knows, maybe Hitler reverted to Islam at the end..... after all, as Naidamar said, who are we to judge what religion he was not? We claim anything!

You may want to deny that, but then who's "Sins" did Jesus supposedly die for? A sin is a sin, unless there are some Sins that are too great that even the great God Jesus can't die for?
A nice twist on the words there, but Christians don't believe he died so that everyone could go to Heaven, but so that everyone could have the opportunity to do so. It was not a free pass for everyone.

I am not a Christian, but anyone with even a basic understanding of Christianity understands that. But then I am sure you were being purposely obtuse anyway.
Reply

aadil77
12-29-2010, 09:25 AM
Originally Posted by titus
According to Christianity if he truly repented and believed that Jesus was his savior, then yes he would go to Heaven. Anyone want to place any wagers on if he truly repented?

Are the teachings of Islam much different? Can someone not lead a sinful life, and at the end if they truly repent and say the Shahada and truly mean it will they not go to Heaven?

Who knows, maybe Hitler reverted to Islam at the end..... after all, as Naidamar said, who are we to judge what religion he was not? We claim anything!



A nice twist on the words there, but Christians don't believe he died so that everyone could go to Heaven, but so that everyone could have the opportunity to do so. It was not a free pass for everyone.

I am not a Christian, but anyone with even a basic understanding of Christianity understands that. But then I am sure you were being purposely obtuse anyway.
Thats another nice twist you've come up with - trying to add a bit of sense to it, that's not what I've heard according to other christians. Why not stay out of this and let christian members answer?
Reply

titus
12-29-2010, 09:33 AM
Why not stay out of this and let christian members answer?
You are right, but they should probably answer that in the proper forum and in the proper thread. This thread concerns Hitler I believe, not the concept of Jesus dying for everyone's sins.
Reply

Watcher888
12-29-2010, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Asalaamu Alaikum(peace be with you),

Firstly, calm down. Re-read what I said;

But I've already asked other Christians, they said if he repented and took Christ as his "saviour" then by that logic he would go to Heaven.

You may want to deny that, but then who's "Sins" did Jesus supposedly die for? A sin is a sin, unless there are some Sins that are too great that even the great God Jesus can't die for?
Yes, if hitler had 'truly' repented and had been 'truly' born again of the Spirit' then he would have been forgiven!
And there is 'no' sin too great that cannot be forgiven!
Except for 'blasphemy' against the HOLY SPIRIT!

BUT it's obvious from the fact that he topped himself, that he was still a pagan!
More so, it is obvious from his life and philosophy and vile evil deeds that he was under the power of Satan!
And that he had lost all reason, morality and ethics!

Go back to the opening post and read what hitler said and did!





Reply

Aishath
12-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Good for Hitler. I wanted to see Hitler dressed as Santa.
Lol I couldn't help but laugh at this ;D:giggling:
Reply

Watcher888
12-29-2010, 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Aileen
Lol I couldn't help but laugh at this ;D:giggling:
Well, I am surprised that 2 muslims would think hitler's pagan idolatry combined with alcoholic revelry funny!

But, may be any Jew hater, especially some fiend like the genocidal maniac hitler is a hero to some muslims and other assorted anti-semites!

Particularly in mind of the end time islamic prophecy about the Jews!

Of course I am just reading between the lines!




Reply

جوري
12-29-2010, 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Watcher888
I posted this to counter the claim that is put about, that hitler was a Christian!

That is actually what he was.. a christian!.. why would we be surprised? Christians have had millenniums of warmongering, pillaging and genocides in the name of love & the self immolating man/god ..

you're hardly apt at dispelling any myth.. in fact you seem to perpetuate the ideas folks have about bible thumping fundies!

all the best
Reply

ardianto
12-29-2010, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by abdulmājid
WHERE ARE THE PICTURES?! I want to see 'em? :p
The page from Dailymail contains some inappropriate photos, I can't show you.
But you can click this link to see the same pictures :

http://www.life.com/image/ugc1150231.../51341#index/0

There are pictures when Hitler and Nazi paramilitary group Sturmabteilung (SA) celebrated Yuletide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yule

But I doubt if those photos were taken on 1941. Those SA uniforms are look like from period before the war.
Reply

جوري
12-29-2010, 06:09 PM
Hitler Was a Christian
The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:
History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed. Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today’s Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian in order to place his misdeeds on those with out Jesus. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and chat rooms.
Considering that Christianity has thus far been incapable of producing an unbiased, educated follower which speaks the truth, (I haven’t encountered any), I have been forced to dispel the myth by writing this essay. It is not until I bring up his speeches, my personal info on the Nazi regime and their tactics that a Christian will begin to question what their clergy told them. (I am the offspring of a German soldier. My Opa served under Hitler in WW2 and my father was raised during the time of the Nazi regime. This is important information to take into consideration for I am privy to some info that most Americans do not know. It is common for American media and education institutions to lie to their citizens concerning Nazi Germany.) So, in presenting this information I must break it into four parts: 1) Facts about Hitler and his involvement with the Church. 2) How the Church was the catalyst for anti- Semitism. 3) Facts concerning how the Nazi regime drilled these beliefs into Germanic society. 4) Quotes Hitler made which prove he had a disdain for atheism/occultism, upheld his Christian faith, and hated Jews due to his Christianity.

Hitler’s involvement with the Church:
a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.
b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)
c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.
d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.
f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party
g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.
Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)
h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism

How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:
Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, “On the Jews and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.
Now, you must remember before Hitler rose to Chancellor of Germany the country was in a deep economic depression due to the Versailles treaty. The Versailles treaty demanded that Germans made financial reparations for the previous war and Germany simply was not self sufficient enough in order to pay the debt. Hitler was the leader that raised Germany out of the depression and brought them back to a world recognized power. Due to his annulment of the financial woes of the Germanic people he became their redeemer and they anointed him as the leader of the German Reich Christian Church in 1933. This placed him in power of the German Christian Socialist movement which legislates their political and religious agendas. It united all denominations, mainly the Protestant/Catholic and Lutheran people to instill faith in a national Christianity.

How the Nazi Regime converted the people:
a) In the 1920s, Hitler’s German Workers’ Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a “Programme” with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a “positive” Christianity: “We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession...”
b) The Nazi regime started a youth movement which preached its agenda to impressionable children. Hitler backed up the notion that all people need faith and religious education: “By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation, faith contributes in reality to the securing and safeguarding of his existence. Take away from present-day mankind its education-based, religious- dogmatic principles-- or, practically speaking, ethical-moral principles-- by abolishing this religious education, but without replacing it by an equivalent, and the result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their existence.” – Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
c) The Nazi regime began to control schools insisting that Christianity was taught.
d) The Nazi regime included anti-Semitic Christian writings in textbooks and they were not removed from Christian doctrines until 1961.
e) The Nazi regime having full blown power over the people began to forcibly convert all its military.
f) The Nazi regime forced the German soldiers to wear religious symbols such as the swastika and they placed religious sayings on military gear. An example here is this German army belt buckle (I believe my Opa had one) which reads “Gott Mit Uns”. For those of you who do not speak German it is translated as “God With Us”.
g) The German troops were often forced to get sprinkled with holy water and listen to a sermon by a Catholic priest before going out on a maneuver.
h) The Nazis created a secret service called the “SS Reich” that would act as spies on the dealings of other citizens. If anyone was suspected of heresy (Going not only against the Socialist party but CHURCH DOCTRINE) they would be prosecuted.

Quotes from Hitler:
Hitler’s speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of their faith So they try to pin him on other theistic views. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveal the strength of his Christian feelings:
“National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship... We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]
Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)
"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)
"With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)
“The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
“The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)
“Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.)
Quotes from Other Nazis about Hitler and Religion:
"Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Gobbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide." (Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer page 95-96)

Source
Reply

glo
12-29-2010, 06:28 PM
I looked up Hitler's religious views on Wikipedia. It shows that historians and personal friends have differing views on this.
Although Catholic by upbringing he never seems to have been much of a practising Catholic and he resented organised religion per se.

It seems quite clear though that he was very clever in his propaganda strategies and that he expressed certain views publically for a desired political effect, whereas keeping other views (perhaps his real ones?) within his private sphere.

Whatever his views were, I wish people (especially the churches in Germany) had not fallen for his evil schemes and had stood up more firmly and powerfully to him! :cry:
Reply

Perseveranze
12-29-2010, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Watcher888
Yes, if hitler had 'truly' repented and had been 'truly' born again of the Spirit' then he would have been forgiven!
And there is 'no' sin too great that cannot be forgiven!
Asalaamu Alaikum(peace be with you),

Doesn't that bother you a bit? Like in Islam, every soul will get their fair earnings, if you did bad then you would go to Hellfire for all the bad that you did, if you did Good then you would later be rewarded.

Anyways... Allah(swt) knows best, as the Quran says, God is the most Just of all.
Reply

glo
12-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?

What would have happened if Hitler had converted to Islam and truly repented of his sins before God?

Anyway, I completely agree with you that God knows best. :)
Reply

Perseveranze
12-29-2010, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?

What would have happened if Hitler had converted to Islam and truly repented of his sins before God?

Anyway, I completely agree with you that God knows best. :)
Asalaamu Alaikum(peace be with you),

Muslims have no garantee that they will go to heaven, like Christians believe the garantee is Jesus(pbuh), where as Muslims would say "Allah Willing" everytime they speak of being able to go to Heaven. Even Muhammad(pbuh) said only God will judge him and go to heaven through his permission.

Another thing is, even if Muslims do get access to heaven, that will not be before they (pay the price) of all the bad that they have done. Like you will go to hell for a temporary amount of time till you've paid your due's then be given access to Heaven.

Next, the Quran speaks of fair justice, that even the animals will be able to testify against anyone who did unjust to them on the day of Judgement. The 40million or so people Hitler killed, it is unlikely they would forgive him.

'To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and earth. Whether you reveal what is in your hearts or hide it Allah will bring you to account for it. He will forgive whom He will and punish whom He will; He has power over all things' (2:284 Koran)

“Allah charges no soul except to its capacity. For it is what it earned, and against it what it has gained. ‘Our Lord, do not take us to account if we have forgotten, or made a mistake. Our Lord, do not burden us with a load as You have burdened those before us. ‘Our Lord, do not over burden us with more than we can bear. And pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us. You are our Protector, so give us victory over the nation, the unbelievers. '” (2:286 Koran)

By that and many other quotes I've seen and read about, if Hitler trully repented to Allah(swt) from the heart, he would still have to pay his dues but may one day be accessed to the gates of Heaven. Ofcourse, the Pharoah can also be seen as an example aswell, he testified of God (before his death) but will still forever go to Hell. Saying Shahada is no garantee whatsoever that you won't touch the fire.

In Christianity, you can testify (about Jesus(pbuh) right before your death and go straight to Heaven, on top of that for any wrong that a Christian does in his/her life they will never be accountable for it, because they believe Jesus(pbuh) died for their sins.

Allah(swt) does know best in the end.
Reply

M.I.A.
12-29-2010, 08:17 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?

What would have happened if Hitler had converted to Islam and truly repented of his sins before God?

Anyway, I completely agree with you that God knows best. :)
people in history have not been able to utter those simple words on there deathbeds

this is no reflection on hitler though.. i aint got a clue what he was about.
Reply

جوري
12-29-2010, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church.
Originally Posted by glo
Although Catholic by upbringing he never seems to have been much of a practising Catholic and he resented organised religion per se.
interest indeed .. isn't that a pic of him with the pope?

Not sure why the OP insisted on opening this bag of worms? But while we are at it.. why does the Muslim world have to pay for christian sins?
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/-00-/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/-00-/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[/IMG]
Reply

purple
12-29-2010, 09:56 PM
:sl:

I cant see the pictures! ^^

Can you post a link. I would like to see it.

:wa:
Reply

جوري
12-29-2010, 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
:sl:

I cant see the pictures! ^^

Can you post a link. I would like to see it.

:wa:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ml#post1397196

source is at the bottom click on it!
Reply

purple
12-29-2010, 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ml#post1397196

source is at the bottom click on it!
Thank you!

I found this, dont know whether this would be any use on this thread.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-Vatican.html
Reply

titus
12-29-2010, 10:40 PM
people in history have not been able to utter those simple words on there deathbeds
Saddam Hussein did I believe.

interest indeed .. isn't that a pic of him with the pope?


King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia



I guess all the people in this picture are Catholic also?



Hmm, Hitler with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.... proof Hitler was a Muslim! (that was sarcasm)

Since when did being in a picture with the Pope make that person a Catholic? You do realize that the Pope is considered a head of state and often visits with world leaders no matter their religion, right? So the idea that a picture of the Pope with Hitler being used as evidence of that persons religion is absurd.

Actually this thread has become absurd with people trying to equate Hitler with Christianity when experts on Hitler will tell you he wasn't a Christian. And finding "evidence" about Hitler and Christianity on what is basically a hate site and posting it is pretty low and shows to what level some people are willing to stoop.
Reply

جوري
12-29-2010, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Ubah
Thank you! I found this, dont know whether this would be any use on this thread. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-Vatican.html

Thanks for sharing!
Reply

GuestFellow
12-29-2010, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by titus
Hmm, Hitler with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.... proof Hitler was a Muslim! (that was sarcasm)

Since when did being in a picture with the Pope make that person a Catholic? You do realize that the Pope is considered a head of state and often visits with world leaders no matter their religion, right? So the idea that a picture of the Pope with Hitler being used as evidence of that persons religion is absurd.

Actually this thread has become absurd with people trying to equate Hitler with Christianity when experts on Hitler will tell you he wasn't a Christian. And finding "evidence" about Hitler and Christianity on what is basically a hate site and posting it is pretty low and shows to what level some people are willing to stoop.
I agree.

We have better things to discuss.
Reply

aadil77
12-30-2010, 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?

What would have happened if Hitler had converted to Islam and truly repented of his sins before God?

Anyway, I completely agree with you that God knows best. :)
Thats kind of like pharoah, he chose to believe just when he was about to die and knew he would get it in hell

but Allah did not forgive Him, everything is up to Allah even if He wants you to recieve guidence and accept the truth
Reply

Ramadhan
12-30-2010, 07:41 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?
what about in Christianity, Glo?
I heard that as long as you believe jesus is god that died to pay off your sins, then you will go to heaven?
Isn't that correct?


Originally Posted by M.I.A.
people in history have not been able to utter those simple words on there deathbeds
I agree with this.
Our deathbed is an instant reflection of our whole life.
even the most beloved uncle of prophet Muhammad SAW was unable to proclaim shahada.
Guidance is from Allah SAW only.
Reply

glo
12-30-2010, 09:29 AM
Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Asalaamu Alaikum(peace be with you),

Doesn't that bother you a bit? Like in Islam, every soul will get their fair earnings, if you did bad then you would go to Hellfire for all the bad that you did, if you did Good then you would later be rewarded.

Anyways... Allah(swt) knows best, as the Quran says, God is the most Just of all.
Originally Posted by naidamar
what about in Christianity, Glo?
I heard that as long as you believe jesus is god that died to pay off your sins, then you will go to heaven?
Isn't that correct?
Greetings, naidamar

You are going round in circles.
Perseveranze had commented on Jesus' atonement already.
Indeed my question about forgiveness in Islam was in response to that post.

Could you answer my question, rather than deflect the question back towards Christianity?
Is it possible that Allah has forgiven Hitler, if he truly repented? (Even if for us as humans that idea would not 'seem fair'?)

As for simply 'believing in Jesus to get into heaven', there may be Christians who think that, but according to my understanding it is not as simple as that.
Being a believer should be reflected in our behaviours and attitudes, hence our faith and our relationship with God should show by how we behave towards other people.
The Bible has much to say about faith and deeds.

Anyway, this topic does belong into the Comparative Religions section, where it has been discussed at length. I am sure you can find a thread there or start a new one.


Our deathbed is an instant reflection of our whole life.
even the most beloved uncle of prophet Muhammad SAW was unable to proclaim shahada.
Guidance is from Allah SAW only.
Perhaps that's true.
But is it also possible that people have a sudden deathbed experience, which rejects and regrets everything the dying person has done during his/her life? A new revelation and a new start at the end of one's life?
Reply

ardianto
12-30-2010, 09:58 AM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...ml#post1397196

source is at the bottom click on it!
That website was made by extreme atheist people. No wonder if that is full of anti-Christian propaganda.

Just wondering, why you took a source from kuffar who don't believe in Allah ?.

We are not in the war with Christians, and kuffar behind that website are not our ally.
So, why we help those kuffar with spread their anti-Christian propaganda ?.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-30-2010, 10:27 AM
Originally Posted by glo
Perseveranze, not wanting to take this thread off topic, but doesn't Islam teach when somebody truly repents, Allah will forgive his/her sins?
And that at the point of saying Shahadah all previous sins are wiped away?

What would have happened if Hitler had converted to Islam and truly repented of his sins before God?
Originally Posted by glo

Could you answer my question, rather than deflect the question back towards Christianity?
Is it possible that Allah has forgiven Hitler, if he truly repented? (Even if for us as humans that idea would not 'seem fair'?)
Can I answer it? :hiding:

Allah guides those who have led good lives to Islam. Everyone is born with a general idea of what is right and wrong. Someone who has led a good life, Allah will guide them to Islam.

As for Hitler, he killed thousands of innocent people. Allah will never guide someone like this to Islam in the first place.

You may present a hypothetical scenario suggesting that what if Hitler wanted to convert to Islam? Well this scenario does not happen to reflect reality. Hitler was a nationalist and promoted racial superiority. Someone like this is too brainwashed, would never consider Islam and his heart is sealed.
Reply

Ramadhan
12-30-2010, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by glo
You are going round in circles.
Are you getting dizzy yet?
LOL.

Originally Posted by glo
Could you answer my question, rather than deflect the question back towards Christianity?
Is it possible that Allah has forgiven Hitler, if he truly repented? (Even if for us as humans that idea would not 'seem fair'?)
The knowledge whether Allah forgives a certain/particular person or not is with Allah only. Even with "possibility" we cannot answer that.
However, Allah SWT says in the Qur'an that He SWT accepts true repentance before dying moments of a person (so, if a person knows they are going to die, and then repent, it is not accepted).


Originally Posted by glo
As for simply 'believing in Jesus to get into heaven', there may be Christians who think that, but according to my understanding it is not as simple as that.
But is it true though?
Because all christians I know in real life claimed that.
Or are they wrong?

Originally Posted by glo
Being a believer should be reflected in our behaviours and attitudes, hence our faith and our relationship with God should show by how we behave towards other people.
Does that mean most people who claim they are christians are not believers? (we know most christians especially in western countries do not follow the teachings of jesus pbuh)
So what will their fate be in the hereafter?
Does it mean those christians will get thrown in hell?
I want you to back it up with bible sources please. Thanks.

The Bible has much to say about faith and deeds.
This is very much like Islam.
I wonder why christians ridicule muslims for believing that our good and bad deeds will be counted when you are saying that deeds is also importance towards salvation in christianity?
or am i getting you wrong?


Originally Posted by glo
Perhaps that's true.
But is it also possible that people have a sudden deathbed experience, which rejects and regrets everything the dying person has done during his/her life? A new revelation and a new start at the end of one's life?
As I said above, the repentance at dying moments (when one realizes they are truly going to die) is not accepted.
It's in the Qur'an, but I cannot remember the exact verse.
Fir'aun (pharaoh) also repented when he knew he was going to be drown, but his repentance was not accepted.
I think this also should satisfy your query regarding hitler.
Reply

Muezzin
12-30-2010, 01:34 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
I agree.

We have better things to discuss.
That's the truth.

Thread closed.
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!