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KhadijaBintArsh
12-24-2010, 04:40 PM
Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

I write this on behalf of a sister and iAllah she will check if everything is accurate upon arrival from a journey. I have known her for many years and so iAllah the detailing will be correct.
Well, the sister (whom i will assign a pseudonym - Mariam) is 21 and was in an illicit relationship since 14 years of age..

She was quite a practicing Muslim and she met a guy who was not. They dated for a period of two years and then to
avoid haram, they secretly married. They told quite a few friends about this and their intention was to tell their families within a year or so. A year
became three and the couple in question had grown apart considerably within the first year of the marriage. They would argue very often and make up after many
hurtful and abusive comments were made. They would then be extremely happy with each other, only to argue again within a couple of days.

They held onto their marriage through it all with the hope things would improve and through detesting divorce. And besides, Mariam would say they were deeply in love.
Over the years, from what I know of my friends character and from what I saw and heard about her husband, they had both been raised to high levels of piety and were
what i would describe as 'devout Muslims’..

However, the strain of the relationship became too great for both parties to bear and so they decided separating was the best option. They both went their separate ways,
never contacting each other until a year after the split.. The ex husband contacted Mariam telling her their marriage was not valid due to they only being two female witnesses
present and nobody else.

Mariam was extremely hurt and disgusted by the sins she had committed, sincerely repented. She deems this whole situation as the worst choices she made in her life. Her ex husband
had settled down with another woman and so there was no option of her marrying him.. Mariam is now at a stage in her life where she is ready for marriage.

Myself and Mariam were discussing the implications of this situation and how it would later affect her in life. I recall her talking of how Allah will help her and He will do what is
best for her, as He has always done.

However, we both could not help but think of what potential suitors would think of her.. Say, a potential spouse was very happy with Mariam being his potential wife and so he was ready
to finalise the agreement, so to speak. But then, Mariam told him of her past (and no, unfortunately the sister is not a virgin)..

What would he decide to do?

Guaranteed, it will depend on the character of the man, but we wondered what Muslim men out there would think they would do if they were in the situation where they really liked Mariam but discovered this secret..

Your opinions are valued, as are the girls if they’d like to make any comments.. JazaakAllah

Wassalaam.


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Cabdullahi
12-24-2010, 08:26 PM
not a problem madame....it happened in the past...anyone can fall in shaytans many traps....so long as she shows she's put the bad stuff behind her and that she is stronger now physically and psychologically then she's perfect!


we're prone to mistakes
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Dagless
12-24-2010, 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by KhadijaBintArsh
The ex husband contacted Mariam telling her their marriage was not valid due to they only being two female witnesses
present and nobody else.
He thought of this after 6 years of marriage? :S Wouldn't the imam have told her that at the time? He just wants an easy way out. If they didn't get divorced then I would recommend seeing someone who is more knowledgeable about these matters to determine if it was valid and if a divorce is required.
Reply

aadil77
12-24-2010, 09:54 PM
if they don't ask, don't tell

I don't understand what type of imam would initiate these 'secret' nikaah's - which aren't even valid in the first place.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
if they don't ask, don't tell

I don't understand what type of imam would initiate these 'secret' nikaah's - which aren't even valid in the first place.
Asalaamu Alaikum, she does'nt actually state that there was an imam present because usually in secret nikah an imam is not used. It is also not necessery for an imam to be present at a nikah for it can be done with two male witnesses and the bride and groom. She also states that only 2 females were present at their nikah but nikah is only valid with two male witnesses present.
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aadil77
12-24-2010, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, she does'nt actually state that there was an imam present because usually in secret nikah an imam is not used. It is also not necessery for an imam to be present at a nikah for it can be done with two male witnesses and the bride and groom. She also states that only 2 females were present at their nikah but nikah is only valid with two male witnesses present.
but surely if it is done with the intent of being secret, without the knowledge of any wali's and mahrams (for the women) it is invalid?
Reply

Maryan0
12-24-2010, 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
but surely if it is done with the intent of being secret, without the knowledge of any wali's and mahrams (for the women) it is invalid?
I would like to know the answer to this too. There is something called mahr xad in my language which means stealing marriage and it's when 2 people get married with the sheik acting as a wali ( basically without parental consent) and witnesses and from what I've heard these marriages are considered valid.:hmm:
Salam
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by KhadijaBintArsh
Assalamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,



I write this on behalf of a sister and iAllah she will check if everything is accurate upon arrival from a journey. I have known her for many years and so iAllah the detailing will be correct.
Well, the sister (whom i will assign a pseudonym - Mariam) is 21 and was in an illicit relationship since 14 years of age..

She was quite a practicing Muslim and she met a guy who was not. They dated for a period of two years and then to
avoid haram, they secretly married. They told quite a few friends about this and their intention was to tell their families within a year or so. A year
became three and the couple in question had grown apart considerably within the first year of the marriage. They would argue very often and make up after many
hurtful and abusive comments were made. They would then be extremely happy with each other, only to argue again within a couple of days.

They held onto their marriage through it all with the hope things would improve and through detesting divorce. And besides, Mariam would say they were deeply in love.
Over the years, from what I know of my friends character and from what I saw and heard about her husband, they had both been raised to high levels of piety and were
what i would describe as 'devout Muslims’..

However, the strain of the relationship became too great for both parties to bear and so they decided separating was the best option. They both went their separate ways,
never contacting each other until a year after the split.. The ex husband contacted Mariam telling her their marriage was not valid due to they only being two female witnesses
present and nobody else.

Mariam was extremely hurt and disgusted by the sins she had committed, sincerely repented. She deems this whole situation as the worst choices she made in her life. Her ex husband
had settled down with another woman and so there was no option of her marrying him.. Mariam is now at a stage in her life where she is ready for marriage.

Myself and Mariam were discussing the implications of this situation and how it would later affect her in life. I recall her talking of how Allah will help her and He will do what is
best for her, as He has always done.

However, we both could not help but think of what potential suitors would think of her.. Say, a potential spouse was very happy with Mariam being his potential wife and so he was ready
to finalise the agreement, so to speak. But then, Mariam told him of her past (and no, unfortunately the sister is not a virgin)..

What would he decide to do?

Guaranteed, it will depend on the character of the man, but we wondered what Muslim men out there would think they would do if they were in the situation where they really liked Mariam but discovered this secret..

Your opinions are valued, as are the girls if they’d like to make any comments.. JazaakAllah

Wassalaam.
Asalaamu Alaikum, jazakallahu khayran for sharing your friends sensative situation with us. My sister what we have to realise is that there are many men and women out there who are in the same situation as Marium as in they married or at least had the intention of marrying to complete half of their deen and they gave it their best shot and when things went wrong they tried everything to stay together but in the end when two people aren't compatible then it is best to go seperate ways and that is what happened in Mariums situation even though she made a huge mistake of doing the nikah secretly as oppose to announcing it and doing it openly. But you learn from your mistakes and it seems as though she certainly has learnt from hers and is now ready to move on with her life and hopefully do things in the right way now as in involve her mahrams and not get into any long term leading to marriage or getting to know the guy for ages until she eventually marries him.

She must do things within the Islamic boundaries and when people go about finding a partner out of the Islamic boundaries then that is when things go wrong a lot of the time because such marriages have no blessings in them because they started in the wrong way. Therefore it is incumbant that she do things in the right way.

There are plenty of understanding men out there who would look past her divorce so if she does things in the right way then she will certainly be blessed with the right partner inshallah. It is best that she make it clear from the beginning that she is divorced and be open about the fact that it was just was not meant to be and that she is looking for the person who is meant for her. It is best to make it clear from the beginning so as to filter out those who are interested and those who are not.

She should not keep it a "secret" as you state because the guy has a right to know from the beginning and that way he is much more likely to accept the fact that it was her past and her ex was just not meant for her but if Marium hid it from the potential and told him afterwards or he found out for himself then he will be very distraught about it and that is not fair on him at all. Such things cannot be hidden for long and they are best cleared from the beginning because it was not just a minor relationship but it was a long term relationship which lead to marriage in which they even lived as a married couple.

As long as Marium goes about finding a partner within the boundaries of Islam and she makes the effort to find a good partner using whatever avenues necessery like through friends, family, relatives, local Masjids, website etc and also makes much dua and puts her hopes, trust and faith in Allah then she will find the right partner who is meant for her and someone she can spend the rest of her life with happily inshallah. She should not lose hope and she should not regret the past because it has made her who she is today and she has learnt from it and become a better person now. As long as she does things in the right way eventually when the time is right inshallah she will find the right partner.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by aadil77
but surely if it is done with the intent of being secret, without the knowledge of any wali's and mahrams (for the women) it is invalid?
The process of nikah must take place in the presence of at least two Muslim, sane, mature male witnesses or one male and two female witnesses. Therefore if there is only one female witness the nikah will be invalid.
(Contemporary Fatawa, P. 132, Idara-e-Islamiat)


If there was only two females present then there needed to be one male present also in order for the nikah to be valid
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by Maryan0
I would like to know the answer to this too. There is something called mahr xad in my language which means stealing marriage and it's when 2 people get married with the sheik acting as a wali ( basically without parental consent) and witnesses and from what I've heard these marriages are considered valid.:hmm:
Salam
Asalaamu Alaikum, if there is no imam present then one of the male witnesses can also act as her Wali but these "secret" marriages have no blessings in them because nikah should always be announced otherwise people may accuse the two of having illicit relations if they don't know if they are married or not. Secret marriages should never be an option as they are devoid of all blessings.
Reply

Maryan0
12-24-2010, 10:48 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, if there is no imam present then one of the male witnesses can also act as her Wali but these "secret" marriages have no blessings in them because nikah should always be announced otherwise people may accuse the two of having illicit relations if they don't know if they are married or not. Secret marriages should never be an option as they are devoid of all blessings.
Jazakhallahu khayr
Salam
Reply

KhadijaBintArsh
12-26-2010, 09:23 PM
The basic requirements for a valid marriage according to Shariah are the following:

1) Offer (ijab) from the female (herself or her guardian/agent whom she appoints to pronounce the offer on her behalf) or male (or his agent), and acceptance (qabul) from the male or female (or their agents), and that this offer and acceptance is heard and understood clearly.

2) The presence of at least two male witnesses or one male and two female witnesses, who hear and clearly understand this offer and acceptance.

Imam al-Quduri (Allah have mercy on him) states in his al-Mukhtasar:

"Marriage is contracted by offer and acceptance, in two statements, both of them expressing the past tense, or one of them expressing the past and the other the future, such as one saying, "Marry (your daughter) to me" and the other saying, "I have married (her) to you". The marriage of Muslims is not contracted without the presence of two free, adult, sane, Muslim male witnesses, or one man and two women, whether they be morally upright (adil) or non-upright." (Mukhtasar al-Quduri, 2/140)

In other words, the basic minimum requirement in order for a marriage to be considered Islamically valid is that there be a valid offer from one party and a corresponding acceptance from the other, in the presence of two male or one male and two female witnesses who know what is happening. The offer, acceptance and the presence of the witnesses must all take place in the same session and at the same place. (The consent of the woman's guardian is also a necessary requirement in some cases, for which one may refer to the fiqh of guardianship).

As stated by Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam.

I totally agree with some of the speculations regarding the wrongs of conducting a secret nikah, but at that time my dear sister did what she felt best and as her friend, I can only advise and stand by her. Besides, I'd rather she tried to make her relationship halal as oposed to remaining in it whilst it was unlawful for herself. Unfortunately, It turned out that it was illicit all along... But, what can be said other than things happen for the best. I believe my sister will find somebody who is right for her iAllah..

Leaving all the discussions about the validity of nikahs behind, what would you guys do?

InshAllah make dua for my beloved sis and all those out there who may have fallen in the same trap of dating etc..

Au revoir!

Wassalaam
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-26-2010, 10:00 PM
Asalamu alaykum

Alhumdulillah she made tawbah for that was a must not just becasue of the witnesses rather becasue she didnt have her walis persmission and the prophet said there is no marrige with out a wali and Allah knows best Insha Allah i will try to call a shaykh and ask him

As for what a person would do if she told them there past for the most part many man would not like it other will accpet it and some will be ok with it but this is beside the point.. May Allah accpet her tawbah ameen know she needs to make dua that Allah blesses her with a pious man who understands that was in her jahiliyah days... also i dont believe she needs to tell him if he doesnt ask and Allah knows best if you can explain the question in a few sentences Insha Allah i can call a shaykh and run it by him Insha Allah
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KhadijaBintArsh
12-26-2010, 11:02 PM
jA for your efforts brother but I personally have studied the fiqh of marriage in depth and I have clarified all doubts with my Shaykh and trusted Muftis..

Also, I have advised Mariam to tell the truth when her time comes.. Of course, it would have to be done in the latter stages of the agreement of nikah, as that is when it would be serious..

Personally, if i was in my sister's situation, I would not be able to marry a man without him knowing about the situation.. He'd expect you to be unaware of the intricacies of being in a relationship of such a nature.. I just believe it's best to start as you mean to go on.. If you begin with deceit and secrecy, your marriage will remain in its shadow and you can expect nothing less from married life to come..

Your spouse should ideally be the closest living person to you (seeing as you'd theoretically spend so much time together! etc) and so everything should be kept as truthful as possible..

Wassalaam
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-27-2010, 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by KhadijaBintArsh
jA for your efforts brother but I personally have studied the fiqh of marriage in depth and I have clarified all doubts with my Shaykh and trusted Muftis..

Also, I have advised Mariam to tell the truth when her time comes.. Of course, it would have to be done in the latter stages of the agreement of nikah, as that is when it would be serious..

Personally, if i was in my sister's situation, I would not be able to marry a man without him knowing about the situation.. He'd expect you to be unaware of the intricacies of being in a relationship of such a nature.. I just believe it's best to start as you mean to go on.. If you begin with deceit and secrecy, your marriage will remain in its shadow and you can expect nothing less from married life to come..

Your spouse should ideally be the closest living person to you (seeing as you'd theoretically spend so much time together! etc) and so everything should be kept as truthful as possible..

Wassalaam
Asalaamu Alaikum, i think you have answered the question yourself sister. If i was the guy then i would want to know early on what i am getting myself into. It would be very unfair to go through all of the initial stages without telling the guy the truth about her past. She should definatley tell any potential the truth in the initial stages because he deserves to know early on what he is getting himself into.

If Marium goes about marriage in the right way as in involves mahrams straight away then that would show any potential how much she has changed and is serious about marriage and that she is wanting to go about marriage in the proper Islamic manner. Then if Allah wants to soften the heart of the guy towards her for marriage then that is upto Allah but she needs to keep Allah on her side and do things in the proper Islamic manner and if she does so eventually she will find the right person but she will have to be patient and soemtimes she will not get good responses but that is why she should involve her mahram early on then that would get rid of any guy who is a waste of time or has other intentions.

I pray inshallah that she does find a good and pious man who will spend eternity with her and treat her the best. Ameen
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KhadijaBintArsh
12-27-2010, 05:28 PM
Ameen..

Hmm.. I think this is an example of how when we transgress the laws of Allah (swt), it does nothing but stand against us..

My advice to Mariam was that Allah is the Most Just and so she should try not to worry and just continue to keep everything halal.. If Allah wills, she will find the right muslim brother..
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-27-2010, 05:43 PM
Originally Posted by KhadijaBintArsh
Ameen..

Hmm.. I think this is an example of how when we transgress the laws of Allah (swt), it does nothing but stand against us..

My advice to Mariam was that Allah is the Most Just and so she should try not to worry and just continue to keep everything halal.. If Allah wills, she will find the right muslim brother..
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Exactly. She should do everything in everyday of her life to please Allah and refrain from anything that displeases him. She should also have trust, hope, faith and reliance in Allah and also patience and thank Allah always and repent and then whatever is best for her will happen inshallah.

Here are some very beneficial threads and lectures for you and Marium to benefit from inshallah and please feel free to forward to others so that they may benefit too inshallah:


These articles wil help you to maximise the amount of good deeds you do everyday inshallah:


10 Steps to Increasing our Iman(Faith)

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...man-faith.html (10 Steps to Increasing our Iman(Faith))

30 ways the youth should spend everyday of their lives!

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...eir-lives.html (30 ways the youth should spend everyday of their lives!)

Easy Dhikr which is light on the tongue but heavy on the scales!

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...vy-scales.html (Easy Dhikr which is light on the tongue but heavy on the scales!)

My Daily Ibadah (worship) check!

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...hip-check.html (My Daily Ibadah (worship) check!)

10 steps to getting closer to Allah

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...ser-allah.html (10 steps to getting closer to Allah)

Forty Very Easy, Quick & Rewarding Good Deeds for all of us to do Everyday!

http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...-everyday.html (Forty Very Easy, Quick & Rewarding Good Deeds for all of us to do Everyday!)

VERY Rewarding Nafl Salaahs we can Pray Everyday!

http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...-everyday.html (VERY Rewarding Nafl Salaahs we can Pray Everyday!)

Beautiful Sunnah's To Do Everyday of Our Lives!

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...our-lives.html


Here are some very beneficial lectures to increase your imaan and fear of Allah:


AMAZING short speech -"The Goodly Life"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fugf1DcNyc


Remembrance: ask Allah for his forgiveness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-EK9r3rMzQ

Angel of Death!!! - Sheikh Ahmed Ali

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUzRJXlB2uA

HARD HITTING Lecture on HELLFIRE & the Day of JUDGEMENT! يوم القيامة والجحيم

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O6L_fBk7VM

Sheikh Ahmad Ali - Hellfire Talk Part 1/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTehIeCOUU

Sheikh Ahmad Ali - Hellfire Talk Part 2/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXTtk7rWx_U

Sheikh Ahmad Ali - Hellfire Talk Part 3/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmiD86w9fBc

Islam - Punishment of the Grave by Sheikh Riyadh ul Haq

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWb-hYIm2WE

Death and the Grave by Murtaza Khan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r2nzJVecqo

How can we not appreciate what we have after watching this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkEBUC0APMg


If you need any help, advice or anything at all then please do not hesitate to ask. Please also mention me in your duas.

And Allah knows best in all matters
Reply

KhadijaBintArsh
12-27-2010, 06:13 PM
Wa'laykum assalaam,

JazaakAllah for that brother :) That's really nice of you

InshaAllah i'll send the link to this post to my sister also iAllah.

May Allah reward you, Ameen.

Wslaam
Reply

Muhaba
12-28-2010, 02:05 PM
Marriage without a wali is not valid islamically, however a girl who doesn't have a wali, then her wali is the ruler or judge, as is stated in a hadith. In Miriam's case, her marriage was invalid but she was uninformed about this, so if she repents to Allah, then Allah is most forgiving. If she thinks that she may still be married, then she should just ask her "husband" to give her the islamic talaq since she doesn't have to go to court to get divorce. all the husband has to do to divorce his wife is say "talaq" once and she is divorced islamically.

as for her situation, do her parents know about it? what will they say if they find out?
the best thing for her to is to tell potential suitors from the beginning about this, or someone else can do it for her, like they can tell the person about her but not tell them who she is. they can say that she was ignorant and didn't know that a marriage without wali was invalid, etc and that she isn't a virgin, etc and if they are still interested, then to introduce them to her.

btw i wrote a story about a similar situation, insha-Allah will post it soon.
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