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Ummu Sufyaan
12-23-2010, 07:45 AM
:sl:
with due respect to all, i dont think a thread wishing merry Christmas to Christians is very appropriate :(

Congratulating the kuffaar on their religious festivals is haraam to the extent described by Ibn al-Qayyim because it implies that one accepts or approves of their rituals of kufr, even if one would not accept those things for oneself. But the Muslim should not aceept the rituals of kufr or congratulate anyone else for them, because Allaah does not accept any of that at all, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

"If you disbelieve, then verily, Allaah is not in need of you, He likes not disbelief for His slaves. And if you are grateful (by being believers), He is pleased therewith for you. . ."
[al-Zumar 39:7]

". . . This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion . . ."
[al-Maa’idah 5:3]

So congratulating them is forbidden, whether they are one’s colleagues at work or otherwise.
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/947

no offense to anyone :peace:
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-23-2010, 09:16 AM
the purpose and job of the ulamaa is to explain to us what the ayat (verses) and ahadeeth (sunnah) say. there is only so much a layman's understanding of the noble verses and ahadeeth can do- and as most would guess, it isnt that much.

also we must remember that just becuase Allah has not said it directly, it does not mean it is not existent within the sunnah.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-23-2010, 10:14 PM
Saying Merry Christmas - is it haram?

Answer:

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.


الجواب حامداومصليا

It is obvious for Muslims living in western countries to face the issue of celebration, congratulation or gift exchange around the time of christmas in every December.

It is also well understood that Christmas is a purely religious festival started and celebrated by Christians.

Allah (S.W.T) has blessed Muslims with a religion that is perfect and complete. For Muslims, there are two religious festivals in a year and Muslims are supposed to celebrate those occasions. At the same time, Muslims are not allowed to celebrate the religious festivals of other faiths as it would tantamount to their consent and happiness over the wrongdoings of others.

Therefore, Muslims are advised to refrain from the celebrations or participation in religious festivals of other faiths. May it be, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or any other faith.

Keeping the above in mind, the answers to your questions are below:

What should a Muslim do when someone says "merry christmas"?

If a Muslim is greeted by someone with "merry christmas", he should return the greeting by saying "Happy holiday"

Is it Haram to say "merry christmas to a christian?

Yes, it is impermissible for a Muslim to say "merry christmas" to anyone. Instead, one may say to a non-Muslim "Happy holiday".

How to deal with a situation when one's close friends, relatives etc... are celebrating christmas?

If someone has friends, relatives or coworkers, who celebrate christmas or other religious festivals then a Muslim should do his best to stay out of such activities. However, if a Muslim fears harm as a result of that then he may participate in such activities that are not directly religious such as praying to Jesus etc... on minimum level and with the intention of not celebrating christmas.

Gifts during the time of christmas?

It is forbidden for a Muslim give and take gifts of Haram substance such as wine, pork etc... If someone is being offered a gift of such substance, he must politely refuse it. If someone has already accepted such gift, then it would not be permissible for him/her to keep it or even give it to someone else. Rather, it will be necessary to discard it.

Gifts of other substances such as fruits, electronics etc... are permissible to accept if presented.

Giving of such gifts at times other than religious festivals such as christmas is not only permissible but encouraged. However, giving of such gifts during times of religious celebration such as christmas should be avoided unless there is a real harm in not giving a gift.

Giving gifts of those kinds which symbolize the significance of other religious icons such as christmas tree, santa clause etc... remain forbidden.

And Allah knows best.

Mufti Ikram ul Haq

Fatwa Center of America

10 Muharram 1432/ December 16 2010


نقل ابن القيّم - رحمه الله – في كتابه أحكام أهل الذمة ، حيث قال : وأما التهنئة بشعائر الكفر المختصة به فحرام بالاتفاق ، مثل أن يُهنئهم بأعيادهم وصومهم ، فيقول : عيد مبارك عليك ، أو تهنأ بهذا العيد ونحوه فهذا إن سلِمَ قائله من الكفر فهو من المحرّمات ، وهو بمنزلة أن تُهنئه بسجوده للصليب بل ذلك أعظم إثماً عند الله ، وأشدّ مَـقتاً من التهنئة بشرب الخمر وقتل النفس وارتكاب الفرج الحرام ونحوه . وكثير ممن لا قدر للدِّين عنده يقع في ذلك ، ولا يدري قبح ما فعل ، فمن هنّـأ عبدا بمعصية أو بدعة أو كـُـفْرٍ فقد تعرّض لِمقت الله وسخطه .


Source: http://www.askamufti.com/Answers/Vie...QuestionId=947

Therefore i would like to wish Happy Holidays to all.
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Grace Seeker
12-23-2010, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Thucydides1987
Hamza81, man, what's with the rigid attitude? By what you've said, you make it seem like Muslims ought to be very insecure about their beliefs. I'd be happy to tell to any Christian "Merry Christmas", or to any Muslim "Happy Ramadan", or to any Jew "Happy Hanukkah".

Stop making people feeling guilty and sacrilegious for merely wishing others well.
I'm just glad that he recognizes:
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Christmas is a purely religious festival started and celebrated by Christians.
Many Muslims want to tell us that Christmas is a purely pagan holiday. So, Hamza81, thanks for the support, and Happy Holidays to you as well!!
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Thucydides1987
12-23-2010, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Christmas is a purely religious festival started and celebrated by Christians.
Yea, and I dont believe in God, but I celebrate Christmas anyway -- it's just tradition; my family and community do it. Why should I deliberately seclude myself from such a festive event all for ideological reasons? I don't want to be a douchebag.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-23-2010, 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by Thucydides1987
Hamza81, man, what's with the rigid attitude? By what you've said, you make it seem like Muslims ought to be very insecure about their beliefs. I'd be happy to tell to any Christian "Merry Christmas", or to any Muslim "Happy Ramadan", or to any Jew "Happy Hanukkah".

Stop making people feeling guilty and sacrilegious for merely wishing others well.
Hello there Thucydides, As Muslims it is our duty when we are unsure of any matter to refer back to the Qur'an and the actions and sayings of our Prophet on any matter. So in this particular matter i did just that which is to refer to the Islamic position on wishing others on their religious festivals which i pasted in my previous post.

It has nothing to do with others being insecure about their faith but the fact is as Muslims we do not recognise the validity of Christmas anymore than Christian scholars who openly admit that Christmas originated from a Roman pagan festival called Saturnalia. This is not even disputed by Christian scholars.

So i hope you understand now that as Muslims we refer back to our sources for every aspect of our lives and Islam is not just a religion but it is a perfect way of life encompassing every aspect of our daily lives.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-23-2010, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
I'm just glad that he recognizes:


Many Muslims want to tell us that Christmas is a purely pagan holiday. So, Hamza81, thanks for the support, and Happy Holidays to you as well!!
Your making it seem as though the origins of Christmas is something which is disputed. The fact that the origins of Christmas are Pagan is very well recognised by Christian scholars and not disputed at all. Refer to my thread:

The Truth about Christmas: http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...christmas.html
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IAmZamzam
12-23-2010, 11:29 PM
Is there anything wrong with people setting aside their bitterness for one day of the year and trying to think of goodwill toward men? Is that not to be encouraged? Christmas is, for all intents and purposes, no longer a religious holiday anyhow, although it may be moreso in some countries than it is here in America.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-23-2010, 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Is there anything wrong with people setting aside their bitterness for one day of the year and trying to think of goodwill toward men? Is that not to be encouraged? Christmas is, for all intents and purposes, no longer a religious holiday anyhow, although it may be moreso in some countries than it is here in America.
As stated in my first post in this thread the Islamic position on greeting those celebrating Christmas is to greet them with "Happy holidays" and not Merry Christmas because as Muslims we do not recognise any non Muslim festival and so we just wish them happy holidays rather than referring to their celebration.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Grace Seeker
12-24-2010, 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Your making it seem as though the origins of Christmas is something which is disputed.
They are.

I'm not disputing that there are elements of pagan festivals appropriated by those who celebrate Christmas and reinterpreted to promote Christian beliefs.
I don't even dispute that some elements haven't been Christianized and still retain pagan elements that I reject.
I would even go so far as to say that some things that were once religious in nature have been co-opted by a secular world and thereby paganized.
I probably know all these things better than you do, as I've been interested in the origins of different Christmas traditions from around the world my whole life.

But I would point out that to make the following to statements...
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Christmas is a purely religious festival started and celebrated by Christians.
and
Originally Posted by Hamza81
the origins of Christmas are Pagan
... is to have created a dispute with yourself.


But despite that ongoing dispute that many have, I still enjoy the celebration of God's love gift. And I still appreciate the kindness and well wishes of others, for whatever reason.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 12:27 AM
Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
They are.

I'm not disputing that there are elements of pagan festivals appropriated by those who celebrate Christmas and reinterpreted to promote Christian beliefs.
I don't even dispute that some elements haven't been Christianized and still retain pagan elements that I reject.
I would even go so far as to say that some things that were once religious in nature have been co-opted by a secular world and thereby paganized.
I probably know all these things better than you do, as I've been interested in the origins of different Christmas traditions from around the world my whole life.

But I would point out that to make the following to statements...

and


... is to have created a dispute with yourself.


But despite that ongoing dispute that many have, I still enjoy the celebration of God's love gift. And I still appreciate the kindness and well wishes of others, for whatever reason.
Well the fact is that its origins are pagan which you admit to and it was also started by Christians on the day of Saturnalia as a religious festival which you also admit to, so there is no dispute in that. Anyway Happy holidays to you and all other members here.
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Ramadhan
12-24-2010, 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Thucydides1987
or to any Muslim "Happy Ramadan"
Originally Posted by Thucydides1987
I don't want to be a douchebag.
Next time, better say nothing than saying "Happy Ramadan", because it shows your ignorance and insensitivity and you could appear as a douchebag :). We do not have "happy" Ramadan.

If you want to, bid us "Ramadan Mubarak" (a blessed Ramadan) or Ramadan Kareem (Good Ramadan).

Ramadan is not a festive holiday like christmas, it's a month-long blessed holiday that we fill with fasting, ibada (acts of worship), and intensive and extensive goodwill, as well as general self-improvements.
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Ansariyah
12-24-2010, 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Is there anything wrong with people setting aside their bitterness for one day of the year and trying to think of goodwill toward men? Is that not to be encouraged? Christmas is, for all intents and purposes, no longer a religious holiday anyhow, although it may be moreso in some countries than it is here in America.
Huh?

Make that all year around..
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Ummu Sufyaan
12-24-2010, 02:54 AM
Originally Posted by sister harb
Salam alaykum;

if anyone feels this thread is inappropriate, then better to inform moderators about it. Also I hope you can make another thread to discuss is it against Islam or not to respect others believes and holidays, but could you leave kind of matters away from this thread.

Thank you.
wa alaykum us-Salaam
i didn't inform moderators about it becuase im not 2-faced and secondly i posted it here as advise.

wasalamualaykum

Originally Posted by Grace Seeker
Sure, why would anyone be offended by being told that to wish well to another is inappropriate. (sarcasm intended)
please dont try to look like the good guy and twist my post into something it wasn't.

it was meant as an advise to Muslims and since there are non-Muslims in this thread who i figured maybe offended i clarified that no harm was intended (again, no offense intended).

i'll ignore your other attempts at trying to be cool.
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kidcanman
12-24-2010, 06:24 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81

And Allah knows best.

Mufti Ikram ul Haq
You claim that it is forbidden to wish a person a merry christmas based on the opinion of Mufti Ikram ul Haq. I think you need to cite the quran and/or the appropriate ahadith. Mr. Haq was right to end his statements with "Allah knows best", because those statements are just his opinions. I don't disagree with his advice, but I think that he himself admits with the statement "Allah knows best" that this advice is not a commandment from Allah or the prophet. Therefore, I do not see how you can command muslims not to say merry christmas and state that it is Haram for them to do so when the prophet and the most high have not made such a commandment.
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glo
12-24-2010, 06:56 AM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Is there anything wrong with people setting aside their bitterness for one day of the year and trying to think of goodwill toward men?
Do our religions not teach us to forgive each other and be kind to each other every day of the year?

Why should we even feel bitterness towards each other? Bitterness is a poison which destroys goodness and kindness and contentment within our own hearts.
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M.I.A.
12-24-2010, 12:28 PM
on the pagan thing,

we all know how the nazis took the swastika from the hindus right? (The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. )
i dont know how or why but i guess the stigma attached makes it very hard for people to accept again.
although brown people and the swastica are not thought to mix when you actually see both together then the idea of the nazi arien race simply vanishes right?

the same should be done with christmas, even after all the innovation in the event to the point where only the event was real... it can be taken back as a form of rememberence of a prophet of islam saw.

the last time i went jumma namaz i know that many names are/were mentioned by the imam.
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IAmZamzam
12-24-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by glo
Do our religions not teach us to forgive each other and be kind to each other every day of the year?

Why should we even feel bitterness towards each other? Bitterness is a poison which destroys goodness and kindness and contentment within our own hearts.
Of course they teach us that, but human beings are not capable of sustaining that kind of effort at their utmost all the time. It's good to have special occasions specifically dedicated to it.
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glo
12-24-2010, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Of course they teach us that, but human beings are not capable of sustaining that kind of effort at their utmost all the time. It's good to have special occasions specifically dedicated to it.
No we cannot, not in our own strength. But with the help of God we can.

I am sure we agree that we should strive towards peace and harmony at all times. Whether we succeed to do so or not, it should always be in our thoughts and intentions to show love and care towards others.
I don't think one day a year is enough for this ...
Better to give it a go and try every day of the year!
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جوري
12-24-2010, 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
the same should be done with christmas, even after all the innovation in the event to the point where only the event was real... it can be taken back as a form of rememberence of a prophet of islam saw.
We don't celebrate the birth of ANY prophet of Islam.. even celebrating the birth of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is an innovation and though rampant, it is indeed a bid3a and people should be told gently to desist and if they don't then the rest shouldn't jump on the bandwagon just because it seems apropos!
Best for people to reflect on why they are blinded by lights and cheap crap from China which they gift each other in anticipation of reciprocation and not for any religious meaning or solemnity add a creepy fat old guy in a red suit who likes kids to sit on his lap and is used as a tool to propagate more lies to young children.
A religion that is based on lies from beginning to end doesn't in my humble opinion deserve our seal of approval.. by all means they should celebrate and they do, we simply need not be a part of it!

:w:
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sister herb
12-24-2010, 08:28 PM
Yes we don´t celebrate but we can let others do what they believe and also respect it too.

Respect others is not same than celebrate with them.
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جوري
12-24-2010, 08:34 PM
I have not in my post suggested we should stop them from celebrating.. if I have kindly point it out!

:w:
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sister herb
12-24-2010, 09:02 PM
What if every who post to this thread just send Happy Holiday and then depate to other thread? Isn´t that too difficult?

I, glo and Grace Seeker would like to eat too much cookies here together with peace. You muslims disturb our tea party.



p.s. we have some sweets too, welcome everyone
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جوري
12-24-2010, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
What if every who post to this thread just send Happy Holiday and then depate to other thread? Isn´t that too difficult? I, glo and Grace Seeker would like to eat too much cookies here together with peace together. You muslims disturb our tea party. p.s. we have cookies too, welcome everyone

I haven't debated with any Christians on this thread - I have clarified to a Muslim that we don't celebrate the birth of any prophets and this is no exception.
You can have all the cookies you want..

{قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ } [آل عمران: 31]


وكم أسر من فؤاد؟ وكم أذهب من عقل؟ فما أجمل الحب وما أكثر مدعيه؟ جاء رجل إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا رسول الله: متى الساعة؟

قال « وماذا أعددت لها »

قال: لاشيء إلا أني أحب الله ورسوله

فقال: « أنت مع من أحببت » [رواه البخاري]


A man came to the prophet and asked when is the hour, the prophet (PBUH) said and what have you prepared for it, the man said I prepared nothing but I do love Allah and his prophet. The prophet then said then you shall be with whom you love!




you end up indeed with the ones you love!


:w:
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sister herb
12-24-2010, 09:26 PM
You are right; I don´t celebrate but respect others.
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جوري
12-24-2010, 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by sister harb
You are right; I don´t celebrate but respect others.
pointing out what is wrong with this picture hardly equates with being disrespectful..
I have no reservation whatsoever of them celebrating or enjoying their holidays and I am not invested emotionally either way. As far as we are concerned we have our own holidays, like the Jews, Janists or Zoroastrians have their own holidays, everyone is free to rejoice and celebrate, we're not obligated even out of political correctness to jump on everyone's band wagon!

:w:
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by kidcanman
You claim that it is forbidden to wish a person a merry christmas based on the opinion of Mufti Ikram ul Haq. I think you need to cite the quran and/or the appropriate ahadith. Mr. Haq was right to end his statements with "Allah knows best", because those statements are just his opinions. I don't disagree with his advice, but I think that he himself admits with the statement "Allah knows best" that this advice is not a commandment from Allah or the prophet. Therefore, I do not see how you can command muslims not to say merry christmas and state that it is Haram for them to do so when the prophet and the most high have not made such a commandment.
Hello Kidcanman, firstly it is not my claim but the claim of a very learned scholar of Islam and secondly there is NO scholar of Islam that will dispute the fact that as Muslims we must not greet a Non Muslim specifying their celebration. This is unanymous and the consensus. Also with regards to Allah knows best this is something we should all say at the end of our posts because we are not infallible and as humans we are prone to mistakes whereas Allah is most perfect.

With regards to what you said about this advice not being in the Qur'an then it is hardly unlikely that the Qur'an will order us not to say "Merry Christmas" to Christians on Christmas. If the Qur'an contained EVERYTHING then it would be too big to even carry. As Muslims we have two main sources and they the Qur'an and Sunnah and the best people to interpret the Qur'an and Sunnah are scholars of Islam. We are also ordered by Allah in the Qur'an to refer to scholars:

"....If a contingent from every expedition remained behind in order to understand religion (Deen), and so that they could admonish their people when they return to them (from war) that thus they (may learn to) guard themselves (against
evil)." (Surah Al-Taubah : 122)

The verse supports that not all Muslims should go out and become preoccupied in jihad. There should be a group who devote themselves exclusively to learning and understand Deen so that they can teach Islamic rules and regulations to those who are not able to dedicate themselves to learning. This verse has ordered those who learn and understand, to impart knowledge of Islamic law to others and it has also instructed others to act upon the instructions to avoid the disobedience of Allah.

"And We have not sent anyone before you except that they are men (humans) to whom We revealed. So, if you do not know ask those of remembrance." (Qur'an, Surah Nahl : 43)

The command to '...ask those of remembrance' implies the principle that `every unlearned person (or non-expert) should refer to the one who knows.'

Khatib Al-Baghdadi writes: "As for the question; who is allowed to follow (and make Taqleed)? It is the lay person who does not have the tools to understand the laws of Islam. The lay person is allowed to follow a scholar and act upon his advice.

Those truly fear Allaah, among His servants, who have knowledge - - - - - . Part aayah 28, surah 35.

Allaah will elevate to (suitable) ranks, those of you who believe and have been granted Knowledge. Part aayah 58, surah 11.

Say (O Muhammad ): Are those equal, those who know and those who do not? Aayah 9 surah 39

According to a hadith: .....Without doubt scholars are the successors of the Prophets. (Abu Dawood)


With regards to non Muslim celebrations:

“Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood). This is a serious warning. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-‘Aas said: Whoever lives in the land of the mushrikeen and celebrates their Nawrooz (New Year) and their Mahrajaan (festivals), and imitates them until he dies, he will be a loser on the Day of Resurrection

Therefore it is clear that we should not take part in nor acknowledge the celebrations of any non Muslim festival. But as mentioned it is sufficient to say "Happy holidays".


And Allah knows best in all matters
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
on the pagan thing,

we all know how the nazis took the swastika from the hindus right? (The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. )
i dont know how or why but i guess the stigma attached makes it very hard for people to accept again.
although brown people and the swastica are not thought to mix when you actually see both together then the idea of the nazi arien race simply vanishes right?

the same should be done with christmas, even after all the innovation in the event to the point where only the event was real... it can be taken back as a form of rememberence of a prophet of islam saw.

the last time i went jumma namaz i know that many names are/were mentioned by the imam.
Asalaamu Alaikum, the fact is brother that this festival is not the birthdate of Isa (As). We as Muslims do not celebrate the brothdates of any Prophet but we do read about their lives and try to emulate them as best we can because they were the best of people chosen by Allah to establish monotheism (The oneness of God) but unfortunatley many a time the message of monotheism was twisted after the death of these Prophets and none so as much as Prophet Isa (As).

Therefore we must never acknowledge events such as these which promote polytheism in that they believe that Jesus is God and therefore this festival celebrates what they believe to be the birth of God on earth. So why should we acknowledge such a lie? We will always establish the truth and that is the fact that Allah is one and has no partners and there is no worthy of worship except him.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-24-2010, 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
Of course they teach us that, but human beings are not capable of sustaining that kind of effort at their utmost all the time. It's good to have special occasions specifically dedicated to it.
Asalaamu Alaikum, if we establish the characteristics, manners and ettiquettes of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) into our lives then no doubt we will be the best towards others and examples for mankind to follow just like the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was an example for the whole of mankind to follow. He was the best towards everyone especially non Muslims.

The mercy of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) even extended to those who brutally killed and then mutilated the body of his uncle Hamzah (RA), one of the most beloved of people to the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Hamzah (RA) was one of the earliest to accept Islam and, through his power and position in the Quraish hierarchy, diverted much harm from the Muslims. An Abyssinian slave of the wife of Abu Sufyan, Hind, sought out and killed Hamzah in the battle of Uhud. The night before the victory of Mecca, Abu Sufyan accepted Islam, fearing the vengeance of the Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. The latter forgave him and sought no retribution for his years of enmity.

After Hind had killed Hamzah she mutilated his body by cutting his chest and tearing his liver and heart into pieces. When she quietly came to the Prophet(Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and accepted Islam, he recognized her but did not say anything. She was so impressed by his magnanimity and stature that she said, “O Messenger of God, no tent was more deserted in my eyes than yours; but today no tent is more lovely in my eyes than yours.”

This is just one of countless examples in the time of our beloved Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) of his mercy, geneoristy and superior character. One just needs to look into the life of Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to realise that he was the perfect example for the whole of mankind.

Mahatma Gandhi said about Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him):

I wanted to know the best of one who holds today undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind ... I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life. "

George Bernard Shaw said about him:

I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today

So let us all look more into the life of this amazing man and establish why he had so much influence then until this very day and no doubt until the end of time. Before anyone comes to their own conclusions about Prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) then at least look into his life for yourself and then make up your mind about him.

Sources used:

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/205/viewall/

http://www.freewebs.com/islamic-site...ammad_saw.html
Reply

جوري
12-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, if we establish the characteristics, manners and ettiquettes of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) into our lives then no doubt we will be the best towards others and examples for mankind to follow just like the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was an example for the whole of mankind to follow. He was the best towards everyone especially non Muslims.
سئل الوالد العلامة محمد بن صالح العثيمين رحمه الله: ما حكم تهنئة الكفّار بعيد (الكريسمس) ؟ وكيف نرد عليهم إذا هنؤنا به؟ وهل يجوز الذهاب إلى أماكن الحفلات التي يقيمونها بهذه المناسبة؟ وهل يأثم الإنسان إذا فعل شيئاً مما ذُكر بغير قصد؟ وإنما فعله إما مجاملة، أو حياءً، أو إحراجاً، أو غير ذلك من الأسباب؟ وهل يجوز التشبه بهم في ذلك؟ الجواب: تهنئة الكفار بعيد الكريسمس أو غيره من أعيادهم الدينية حرام بالاتفاق. كما نقل ذلك ابن القيم – رحمه الله – في كتابه "أحكام أهل الذمة" حيث قال: "وأما التهنئة بشعائر الكفر المختصة به فحرام بالاتفاق، مثل أن يهنئهم بأعيادهم وصومهم، فيقول: عيد مبارك عليك، أو تهنأ بهذا العيد ونحوه، فَهَذَا إِنْ سَلِمَ قَائِلُهُ مِنَ الكُفْرِ فَهُوَ مِنَ المُحَرَّمَاتِ. وَهُوَ بِمَنْـزِلَةِ أَنْ تُهَنِّئَهُ بِسُجُودِهِ لِلصَلِيبِ، بل ذلك أعظم إثماً عند الله، وأشد مقتاً من التهنئة بشرب الخمر وقتل النفس، وارتكاب الفرج الحرام ونحوه. وكثير ممن لا قدر للدين عنده يقع في ذلك، ولا يدري قبح ما فعل، فمن هنأ عبداً بمعصية، أو بدعة، أو كفر فقد تعرض لمقت الله وسخطه". وللفتوى بقية، اضغط هنا لقراءة الفتوى كاملة.
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kidcanman
12-26-2010, 02:24 AM
You cited two quranic verses that address the issue of how much authority scholars have.

The first verse said people should stay behind and learn so that they can "admonish" their people, and thus their people can "guard themselves" against evil.

The second verse says "if you don't know" ask those of remembrance.

Nowhere in the quran does it state that the scholars have the authority to proclaim that their opinions are the same as a commandment from Allah.

The scholars have learned much and so they can give their opinion and admonish. But they cannot form an opinion and say that it is a commandment from Allah.

Where is the evidence from the quran that affirms that the scholars have the "Authority" to proclaim that something is against islam, i.e. definately not permisible by Allah, i.e. doing it is equivalent to breaking a commandment of Allah.

That is a problem with many muslims. They take the proclamation of humans to be equivalent to a commandment from Allah. And they feel that if somebody goes against the proclamation of a scholar it is as if they are committing shirk.

Are you putting the commandments of scholars on equal footing of the commandment of Allah? if so then I would like for you to present to me the quranic verse on which to base this point of view.

Have you ever heard somebody quote a commandment or verse from the quran and then say "And Allah Knows Best"?

So first you have presented evidence that we should listen to scholars but no evidence that the scholars have the authority to make divine commandments. And then the only evidence you presented to support your claim that wishing christians a merry christmas is haram did not come from the quran or from a saying of the prophet. It came from a proclamation from a scholar.

But in this proclamation it does not speak of well wishing, it speaks of imitating a people and celebrating their festivals. Is it haram to do anything that imitates a christian?

Did Allah say that?

I'm not asking if it is advisble. I'm asking is it going against a commandment of allah to do "anything" that imitates a non-beliver? Is this a limit set by Allah? Or should we take it as such?

Sitting in a chair? Driving a car? Building a house in the same manner as them?...haram? not Makrooh...haram? does Ibn Al-aas have the authority to say this? And in any event Al-aas talks about celebrating the festivals of non-believers.

Wishing somebody a merry christmas is not celebrating their festival. According to ahadith actions are judged according to intentions. Our intentions are not to celebrate the birthday of jesus christ or his divinity when we wish christians a merry christmas.

Originally Posted by Hamza81
firstly it is not my claim but the claim of a very learned scholar of Islam and secondly there is NO scholar of Islam that will dispute the fact that as Muslims we must not greet a Non Muslim specifying their celebration. This is unanymous and the consensus.
from http://theiau.com/blog/q-and-a/merry...mas-greetings/

" It is permissible to wish Christians a merry Christmas as long as the intention is to interact with them in the best way possible without supporting their belief. This opinion was held by scholars like Yusuf al-Qaraḍāwī, Abdullah bin Bayyah, and Muṣṭafā Zarqā. It is also the opinion that was adopted by the European Council for Fatwa and Research as well as many scholars throughout the Muslim world."

Therefore all muslims scholars do not believe that it is haram to wish Christians a merry Christmas.
Reply

Hamza Asadullah
12-26-2010, 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by kidcanman
You cited two quranic verses that address the issue of how much authority scholars have.
May i ask are you a Muslim because i cannot tell from your responses and also you have not disclosed your religion in your profile. I ask because i want to know if you are a Muslim then if there is any matter which you are unsure about then do you actually refer to scholars or are you of those who think they can derive their own rulings from Qur'an and hadith?

Firstly knowhere in any of my responses have i said that scholars opinions have the same weight as the commands of Allah. What is fard is fard and what is haraam is haraam but there are many matters where it is not always plain and simple if a matter is permissable or not and that is where scholars will come to their conclusions using their knolwedge or Qur'an and hadith.

We as lay people are obligated to refer to those who can derive these rulings because we ourselves cannot derive any rulings from the Qur'an or hadith ourselves simply because we do not have sufficient knowldge to do so. There maybe a matter where there is a hadith forbidding a certain act and we do not know of it and we think that matter is permissable when in fact it is not.

A lay person attempting to derive any ruling from the Qur'an or hadith themselves will certainly not be able to in context and will certainly mistranslate and misinterpret a verse or hadith. The work of scholars has not just started recently but has been built upon ever since Qur'an and hadith came into existance. Therefore we are obligated to refer to scholars because we ourselves do not have the sufficient knowledge to come to our own conclusions and therefore we refer to those that have the knowledge to derive rulings and give fatwas that we as lay people can understand and act upon.

You quoted a few scholars who take the other view there but the vast majority of scholars still hold the view that it is not permissable to wish any non Muslim referring to their celebration rather it is sufficient just to say "Happy holidays". Whilst it may be acceptable to be inclined towards another view even if it is a minority one, it is always best to take precaution when it comes to a matter especially taking into account a majority opinion on any matter.

And Allah knows best in all matters
Reply

kidcanman
12-26-2010, 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
I ask because i want to know if you are a Muslim then if there is any matter which you are unsure about then do you actually refer to scholars or are you of those who think they can derive their own rulings from Qur'an and hadith?
I refer to scholars but i don't take their rulings to be a commandment from Allah unless they cite where Allah commanded it. But more importantly I don't tell other people that Allah commanded this or that, when in fact it is a ruling from a scholar.

Firstly knowhere in any of my responses have i said that scholars opinions have the same weight as the commands of Allah. What is fard is fard and what is haraam is haraam but there are many matters where it is not always plain and simple if a matter is permissable or not and that is where scholars will come to their conclusions using their knolwedge or Qur'an and hadith.
You cited a scholar that answered yes to the question "is it haram to say merry christmas" (post #21). Then you made the statement that we should not acknowledge the celebrations of any non-muslim festivals (#59).
Instead of indicating that it is advisable for muslims not to do it. You indicated that muslims should not do it. And you based that commandment on the judgement of scholars. It is your position that scholars can make an absolute commandment like that and say that it is according to islam (submitting to the will of Allah). Or in other words you think that their commandments are according to the will of Allah.

Therefore you have taken the commandment of a scholar to be an absolutely true commandment.

In other words, you are taking a scholar's commandment to be the commandment of islam. And you think that it is haram not to follow this commandment.

In other words, you are taking a scholar's commandment to be the commandment of Allah.

We as lay people are obligated to refer to those who can derive these rulings because we ourselves cannot derive any rulings from the Qur'an or hadith ourselves simply because we do not have sufficient knowldge to do so. There maybe a matter where there is a hadith forbidding a certain act and we do not know of it and we think that matter is permissable when in fact it is not.
What I'm trying to tell you is that no man can derive a new ruling and say that this is a commandment of islam or Allah. What the scholars can do is relate their opinions. They can't "forbid" a certain act. They can just say, "i think it would be better if...".

Allah says in the quran to say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail."6:114

You quoted a few scholars who take the other view there but the vast majority of scholars still hold the view that it is not permissable to wish any non Muslim referring to their celebration rather it is sufficient just to say "Happy holidays". Whilst it may be acceptable to be inclined towards another view even if it is a minority one, it is always best to take precaution when it comes to a matter especially taking into account a majority opinion on any matter.
In post #59 you adamantly asserted that NO scholar (and you capitalized no) will say that you can greet christians with merry christmas. And you said that your view is unanimous and the consensus. I proved to you that that is not true.

Now you claim that the "vast majority" of scholars support your point of view. In light of your earlier mistake, how can I believe this claim? I do believe that the majority of scholars agree with your point of view. But I first need proof before I can accept that it is a "vast" majority or that only a "few" scholars are of a differing opinion.

And you say that it "may be acceptable" to be inclined towards another point of view.

Is it acceptable or not? If the lay man is too ignorant to make his own judgements about what is right or wrong without scholars what is he to do when the scholars differ? What do the scholar's commandments come to then? Is the action haram according to islam or halal? I gues it is as you said. Scholars are human and they make mistakes.

So is it againts islam to wish christians a merry christmas? Is it against the "will of Allah"? or is it simply something that many scholars advise not to do and therefore a muslim can choose to take that advise or leave it?
Reply

IAmZamzam
12-26-2010, 04:08 PM
kidcanman, it is so good to know I'm not the last sane man left in this religion. If I could have given you reputation points ten times instead of just once with this system, I would have.
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Beardo
12-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Maybe you can say Happy Holidays...
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M.I.A.
12-26-2010, 04:52 PM
no offence but in terms of orgonised religion what is islam?

some will say islam is the quran and sunna... but we cant interpret them correctly.

lol its a funny way of looking at things.

judgement will be done on an individual basis and nobody can wronge you but yourself, scholership is just putting constrainst on a path that the scholer cannot be 100% sure of.

why narrow a path that allah has made easy for you?

islam is a set of rules for each and every person, but each and every person is not the same.
knowledge and wisdom are not the same, and one does not bring the other.. application of knowledge and a willingness to learn and accept may improve the chances though.
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جوري
12-26-2010, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Rashad
Maybe you can say Happy Holidays...

if pressed and someone says it first to me I only say ''enjoy your holidays'' but I'd not instigate it-- I am not even given time off during Eid why should I go out of my ways to congratulate these people on their paganistic practices?
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Woodrow
12-26-2010, 05:11 PM
Like it or not Dec 25 is pretty much a worldwide holiday. I suspect more non-Christians celebrate it then the number of Christians, However, it is not a religious celebration for most of the world. For most people it is a day to reflect upon Peace and putting out a thought of good will towards others.

For those of us who are not Christian let us simply keep it as a day of freely offering our willingness of peaceful co-existence to all of mankind.

If we put forth an attempt to end aggression towards others. If every human honestly could spend one day without an aggressive word towards any other person, there may be hope for the human race after all.
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M.I.A.
12-26-2010, 05:13 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Asalaamu Alaikum, the fact is brother that this festival is not the birthdate of Isa (As). We as Muslims do not celebrate the brothdates of any Prophet but we do read about their lives and try to emulate them as best we can because they were the best of people chosen by Allah to establish monotheism (The oneness of God) but unfortunatley many a time the message of monotheism was twisted after the death of these Prophets and none so as much as Prophet Isa (As).

Therefore we must never acknowledge events such as these which promote polytheism in that they believe that Jesus is God and therefore this festival celebrates what they believe to be the birth of God on earth. So why should we acknowledge such a lie? We will always establish the truth and that is the fact that Allah is one and has no partners and there is no worthy of worship except him.
im being very harsh with you here but,
i trust in my god moreso than any other thing in this world or out of it. if you believe that it is your prescribed duty to fight and that every stratagy available should be employed then i welcome you to the pacafist muslim that lays claim to all the prophets saw.

i celebrate the birth of the prophet saw without knowledge when they were born... what a very strange thing to do. for what reason would i do this and how would i do this?

i saw in another thread about a hadeeth saying the prophet muhammad* said to the jews that we have more right over moses saw than they did... i guess that would have been true back in the day.
Reply

أبو سليمان عمر
12-26-2010, 05:19 PM
What should a Muslim do when someone says "merry christmas"?

If a Muslim is greeted by someone with "merry christmas", he should return the greeting by saying "Happy holiday"

Is it Haram to say "merry christmas to a christian?

Yes, it is impermissible for a Muslim to say "merry christmas" to anyone. Instead, one may say to a non-Muslim "Happy holiday".
even this is not permissable for the reason that you are wishing them a happy hoilday means that you are ok with it or in other words it is as thou one will say go ahead and do your celebration and greeting them with it as have a happy it is best not to reply and say i am a muslim


Asalaamu Alaikum, if we establish the characteristics, manners and ettiquettes of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) into our lives then no doubt we will be the best towards others and examples for mankind to follow just like the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was an example for the whole of mankind to follow. He was the best towards everyone especially non Muslims.
naam akhi very true but this doesnt mean that he ever prasied them or was pleased with there shirky acts and the prophet was Just with them as we should be this has nothing to do with this tread akhi

" It is permissible to wish Christians a merry Christmas as long as the intention is to interact with them in the best way possible without supporting their belief. This opinion was held by scholars like Yusuf al-Qaraḍāwī, Abdullah bin Bayyah, and Muṣṭafā Zarqā. It is also the opinion that was adopted by the European Council for Fatwa and Research as well as many scholars throughout the Muslim world."
this fatwah are rejected for he who see a munkar should hate it in his heart and this is the least of eman and how can i hate somthing in my heart and show other wise with my tonuge ...
As Ibn al-Qayyim, may Allaah have mercy on him, said in Ahkaam Ahl al-Dhimmah: "Congratulating the kuffaar on the rituals that belong only to them is haraam by consensus, as is congratulating them on their festivals and fasts by saying ‘A happy festival to you’ or ‘May you enjoy your festival,’ and so on. If the one who says this has been saved from kufr, it is still forbidden. It is like congratulating someone for prostrating to the cross, or even worse than that. It is as great a sin as congratulating someone for drinking wine, or murdering someone, or having illicit sexual relations, and so on. Many of those who have no respect for their religion fall into this error; they do not realize the offensiveness of their actions. Whoever congratulates a person for his disobedience or bid’ah or kufr exposes himself to the wrath and anger of Allaah
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جوري
12-26-2010, 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Like it or not Dec 25 is pretty much a worldwide holiday. I suspect more non-Christians celebrate it then the number of Christians, However, it is not a religious celebration for most of the world. For most people it is a day to reflect upon Peace and putting out a thought of good will towards others.

Admittedly with as many Indians and Jews as I know in the work place I have never seen anyone shove their holidays down everyone's throat as Christians do.. Indians especially have round the clock festivals.. Jews have a couple of days, you hardly ever hear of them unless they ask for a day off... They've hijacked any beautiful meaning or solemnity with their round the clock commercialism, forcing non-Christians to participate in such absurdities as Kris Kringle, buying and receiving worthless crap for people they don't know and have no desire to know merely for the sake of appearances, and God forbid if you have no desire to participate!

It has never been about 'good will toward man' It is pure commercialism with a tinge of evangelism!

:w:
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Woodrow
12-26-2010, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


Admittedly with as many Indians and Jews as I know in the work place I have never seen anyone shove their holidays down everyone's throat as Christians do.. Indians especially have round the clock festivals.. Jews have a couple of days, you hardly ever hear of them unless they ask for a day off... They've hijacked any beautiful meaning or solemnity with their round the clock commercialism, forcing non-Christians to participate in such absurdities as Kris Kringle, buying and receiving worthless crap for people they don't know and have no desire to know merely for the sake of appearances, and God forbid if you have no desire to participate!

It has never been about 'good will toward man' It is pure commercialism with a tinge of evangelism!

:w:
That is true. Especially noticable in the large cities. I guess I am a bit protected by living out in the boon docks and the fact that most people I know are Non-Christian Lakotah, who see Dec 25 simply as a day to offer friendship to others. Besides the people on the Rez are too poor to be of much commercial interest.
Reply

جوري
12-26-2010, 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
That is true. Especially noticable in the large cities. I guess I am a bit protected by living out in the boon docks and the fact that most people I know are Non-Christian Lakotah, who see Dec 25 simply as a day to offer friendship to others. Besides the people on the Rez are too poor to be of much commercial interest.

It sounds like paradise akhi.. you want to trade lives?
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Woodrow
12-26-2010, 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ


It sounds like paradise akhi.. you want to trade lives?
Sorry Ukhti, not with knowing that very soon we will be moving to the Northern Cheyenne Reservation in Montana. Even less influence from any Western European type culture. really not a very far move, as the Western Edge of Standing Rock almost touches the Northern Cheyenne. The area is best known for it's closeness to the "Battle of the Little Bighorn" Where Custer got Siouxed (For those not familiar Siouxed is pronounced Sued, for the Rest of the story do a google for Custer's Last Stand)

Anyhow it is an area with no Christmas commercialization.
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جوري
12-26-2010, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by Woodrow
Sorry Uhkti, not with knowing that very soon we will be moving to the Northern Cheyenne Reservation in Montana. Even less influence from any Western European type culture. really not a very far move, as the Western Edge of Standing Rock almost touches the Northern Cheyenne. The area is best known for it's closeness to the "Battle of the Little Bighorn" Where Custer got Siouxed (For those not familiar Siouxed is pronounced Sued, for the Rest of the story do a google for Custer's Last Stand) Anyhow it is an area with no Christmas commercialization.

horses, wild life, virginal snow, no fundies or atheists in sight.. I have been going about it all wrong I tell you..

may Allah swt multiply and increase your blessings akhi in this life and the next..

:w:
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Ansariyah
12-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
kidcanman, it is so good to know I'm not the last sane man left in this religion. If I could have given you reputation points ten times instead of just once with this system, I would have.
A person who is truly sane would not need to puff themselves up with self-aggrandizement, no?
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Junon
12-26-2010, 09:59 PM
Salaam

Of course one has to guard against inovations in matters of our faith. Oddly for me its my non-religious friends/associates who ask me why I dont celebrate Christmas but its easy to bat away (eg. what exactly has this festival to do with me? I come from a different faith/culture/background so please dont be offended if I dont take part etc etc).

If you are confident and comfortable in your faith then wishing somebody a merry christmas/happy holidays shouldnt really be a cause of concern, its courteous if anything else.

Originally Posted by Yahya Sulaiman
kidcanman, it is so good to know I'm not the last sane man left in this religion. If I could have given you reputation points ten times instead of just once with this system, I would have.
Impressed with yourself arent you bro? Im reminded of this verse

'Do not walk in the earth haughtily. Surely, you can never tear the earth nor rival the mountains in height' (17:37)
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Hamza Asadullah
12-26-2010, 11:10 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

Originally Posted by kidcanman
I refer to scholars but i don't take their rulings to be a commandment from Allah unless they cite where Allah commanded it. But more importantly I don't tell other people that Allah commanded this or that, when in fact it is a ruling from a scholar.

Brother scholars are not trying to take their rulings as the command of Allah. They are simply issuing thir verdicts using evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah. As i have said to you before how can the Qur'an contain EVERYTHING? If it did then it would be too big and heavy to even carry and probably take a lifetime to read. The fact is Allah included everything that he needed to in the Qur'an and this is sufficient. The Sunnah is also from Allah as mentioned in the Qur'an so that is our other source where scholars derive thier rulings from. Scholars ONLY use that which is from Allah to derive their rulings not from their own desires. This is what you must realise. Therefore by referring to scholarly verdicts i am only doing what Allah commanded the lay people to do in the Qur'an and that is to refer to those with knowledge.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
You cited a scholar that answered yes to the question "is it haram to say merry christmas" (post #21). Then you made the statement that we should not acknowledge the celebrations of any non-muslim festivals (#59).
Instead of indicating that it is advisable for muslims not to do it. You indicated that muslims should not do it. And you based that commandment on the judgement of scholars. It is your position that scholars can make an absolute commandment like that and say that it is according to islam (submitting to the will of Allah). Or in other words you think that their commandments are according to the will of Allah.

That is because i take the view of the vast majority of scholars on this issue that we must NOT acknowledge the celebrations of any non Muslim and i stick to that view which i am entitles to do. Scholars are allowed to issue verdicts and fatwas on matters which are not clear from the Qur'an and Sunnah based on their knowledge and understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah. They do not claim and never have done that any of their verdicts have the same weight as verses from the Qur'an or hadith. This is your own assumption.

Therefore you have taken the commandment of a scholar to be an absolutely true commandment.

In other words, you are taking a scholar's commandment to be the commandment of islam. And you think that it is haram not to follow this commandment.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
In other words, you are taking a scholar's commandment to be the commandment of Allah.

You have just repeated the same thing several times. I take verdicts from scholars as every other Muslim has done for the past 1400 years. Again It does not mean that i am holding scholars verdicts to be of the same weight as verses from the Qur'an or hadith and scholars also do not imply that for again that is your own assumption and lack of understanding about scholarly verdicts which i recommend you research and look up in order to gain to clarification on this matter .

Originally Posted by kidcanman
What I'm trying to tell you is that no man can derive a new ruling and say that this is a commandment of islam or Allah. What the scholars can do is relate their opinions. They can't "forbid" a certain act. They can just say, "i think it would be better if...".

What scholars do is as i have mentioned to you before they use their knowledge and understanding from the Qur'an and Sunnah and issue verdicts and fatwa's accordingly, deeming a matter either permissable or impermissable and they are entitled to their opinion as long as they have sufficient evidence either way and good reason to give such a verdict.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
Allah says in the quran to say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah. - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail."6:114

Let us look at a more detailed translation of this verse:

Say to them O Muhammad: "Shall I choose a judge besides Allah when it is He Who makes and gives the law whereas all other judges only interpret it? It is He Who has sent down -the Quran- distinctly expressing all that is meant leaving nothing merely implied," .Ahl al-Kitab know it is Allah's sent Book in all truth. Therefore, do not let O Muhammad those who hide the truth and contend with opposing arguments influence your feelings or put you in doubt.


Note the highlighted. All scholars do is interpret it as best they can using their knowledge and understanding of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
In post #59 you adamantly asserted that NO scholar (and you capitalized no) will say that you can greet christians with merry christmas. And you said that your view is unanimous and the consensus. I proved to you that that is not true.

Consensus means the vast majority and the vast majority do hold the view that it is not permissable and you have also admitted that this view is the majority one. All you proved was that there were a few scholars that take the other view but they count as a very small minority.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
Now you claim that the "vast majority" of scholars support your point of view. In light of your earlier mistake, how can I believe this claim? I do believe that the majority of scholars agree with your point of view. But I first need proof before I can accept that it is a "vast" majority or that only a "few" scholars are of a differing opinion.

That is upto you to research and examine both views and evidences and decide which is more weighty in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
And you say that it "may be acceptable" to be inclined towards another point of view.

Yes as long as you do not follow that view according to your own desires or understanding but actually look at both views and evidences weighing them up and taking the view you are inclined towards after studying both properly and choosing the one you think has most weight behind it. As with any difference of opinion one should always look at the stronger opinion on any matter and take the precaution.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
Is it acceptable or not? If the lay man is too ignorant to make his own judgements about what is right or wrong without scholars what is he to do when the scholars differ? What do the scholar's commandments come to then? Is the action haram according to islam or halal? I gues it is as you said. Scholars are human and they make mistakes.

Yes of course they make mistakes for they are not infallible and we as lay people will not be held accountable for following scholarly opinions as long as we did so weighing up evidences and going towards what we thought had more weight in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah and even Scholars won't be held accountable long as their intentions were good and they did the best they could with the evidences they had. Allah knows best and as the verses stated that you pasted he is the judge of all judges.

Originally Posted by kidcanman
So is it againts islam to wish christians a merry christmas? Is it against the "will of Allah"? or is it simply something that many scholars advise not to do and therefore a muslim can choose to take that advise or leave it?
Scholars issue their verdicts on the evidences they have seen and weighed up from the Qur'an and Sunnah and issue their verdicts and fatwas accordingly. It is upto us to research those views properly and then take the view we feel has the best evidences for but not those we just desire to follow without a particular reason as that would just be following ones desires and not following the view that holds most weight in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Maryan0
12-26-2010, 11:15 PM
We have Christian neighbors and every Eid they bring us a card and a cake and say Eid Mubarak and so we do the same for them on Christmas.:hiding:
Salam
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Hamza Asadullah
12-26-2010, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by أبو سليمان عمر


naam akhi very true but this doesnt mean that he ever prasied them or was pleased with there shirky acts and the prophet was Just with them as we should be this has nothing to do with this tread akhi ...
Asalaamu Alaikum. You have taken my post out of context. It was in response to a post by brother Yahya. You have joined this thread very late as it was created out of another thread and so will not know what that discussion was about in context.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-26-2010, 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by M.I.A.
im being very harsh with you here but,
i trust in my god moreso than any other thing in this world or out of it. if you believe that it is your prescribed duty to fight and that every stratagy available should be employed then i welcome you to the pacafist muslim that lays claim to all the prophets saw.

i celebrate the birth of the prophet saw without knowledge when they were born... what a very strange thing to do. for what reason would i do this and how would i do this?

i saw in another thread about a hadeeth saying the prophet muhammad* said to the jews that we have more right over moses saw than they did... i guess that would have been true back in the day.
Asalaamu Alaikum, you are not being harsh to me brother as i can only inform as best i can of the Islamic position of a particular matter and leave it at that. We should try our best to remember, talk about, emulate and look into the lives of the great Prophets of Allah may Allah bless them all for they were the best of people and they were the messengers of Allah on this earth. There does not need to be a specific day that we remember them for this could be anytime. We should try our best to emulate Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) for those who love him the most will emulate him the most. That is why i created this thread:

Beautiful Sunnah's To Do Everyday of Our Lives!

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...our-lives.html

Let us try our best to bring the Sunnah into our lives as much as possible and remember we will be with those we love the most and if we claim to love the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) then let us emulate him in every aspect of our lives for he was the best and the seal of all of the Prophets of Allah.
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kidcanman
12-27-2010, 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza81
Consensus means the vast majority and the vast majority do hold the view that it is not permissable and you have also admitted that this view is the majority one. All you proved was that there were a few scholars that take the other view but they count as a very small minority.
You wrote in an earlier post that NO scholar, will agree that you can wish christians a merry christmas. You wrote "NO" scholar.

So you are wrong on that point; and that's what I proved.

You have the right to believe any scholars you like. But you don't have the right to assert that what a scholar rules is unequivocally what a muslim should do.

Initially you made an unequivocal claim that muslims "can not" wish christians a merry christmas. You did not qualify this statement, and you did not say that this is your point of view.

So my question to you is are you still willing to stick with your initial statement, that Muslims, unequivocally, without a doubt, "Can Not" wish Christians a merry Christmas? Can you say that? Because that is how you stated it. You did not state that," this is what the scholars say", and you did not say, "this is what i believe". You simply said that muslims "Can Not" do it; meaning certainly, without a doubt, this is what allah intended.

That is my question to you: 100% without a doubt, is it ok for muslims to wish christians a merry christmas?
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جوري
12-27-2010, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by kidcanman
is it ok for muslims to wish christians a merry christmas?

NO!

all the best
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AabiruSabeel
12-27-2010, 04:25 PM
Are we still discussing this after two days? It's December 27th today.






:threadclo
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Hamza Asadullah
12-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by kidcanman
You wrote in an earlier post that NO scholar, will agree that you can wish christians a merry christmas. You wrote "NO" scholar.

So you are wrong on that point; and that's what I proved.

You have the right to believe any scholars you like. But you don't have the right to assert that what a scholar rules is unequivocally what a muslim should do.

Initially you made an unequivocal claim that muslims "can not" wish christians a merry christmas. You did not qualify this statement, and you did not say that this is your point of view.

So my question to you is are you still willing to stick with your initial statement, that Muslims, unequivocally, without a doubt, "C n Not" wish Christians a merry Christmas? Can you say that? Because that is how you stated it. You did not state that," this is what the scholars say", and you did not say, "this is what i believe". You simply said that muslims "Can Not" do it; meaning certainly, without a doubt, this is what allah intended.

That is my question to you: 100% withut aoubt, is it ok for muslims to wish christians a merry christmas?
Asalaamu alaikum, as i have already stated i based my assertion that it is not permissable to wish any non Muslim referring to their festivals on the fact that this is the consensus of scholars who based this ruling on the overwhelming evidence from the Quran and Sunnah and so as i have already confirmed to you a couple of times i stick by the consensus of scholars on this matter and have no reason not to.

So to conclude this thread based on the consensus of scholars of Islam on this issue it is NOT permissable to greet any non Muslims on their festival and that includes wishing them Merry Christmas as well as Happy new year but it is sufficient to reply to them with "Happy holidays".

And Allah knows best in all matters
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