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north_malaysian
12-22-2006, 09:22 AM
1. Coffee
2. Chess
3. Parachute
4. Shampoo
5. Metal Armor
6. Surgery
7. Soup
8. Pay Cheques
9. Rocket and Torpedo
10. Windmill

Souce: http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/85999-0/
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Snowflake
12-22-2006, 09:33 AM
*wonders how the parachute was invented*

a man being chased by the enemy jumped off a mountain and his jubba got filled with air making him float safely to the ground.. the rest as they say is history ;D
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syilla
12-22-2006, 09:35 AM
more please!!
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Curious girl2
12-22-2006, 07:10 PM
Interesting, but Chess was first found in India in about 600AD and didnt get to Persia until about 700AD and wasnt really in Arabic culture until 100 years after that. Coffee was known as a beverage about 1000BC pre-dating Islam, though it was popular in the Arabic world centuries before anywhere else.

Its generally accepted that DaVinci sketched the first concept of the parachute, though of course its possible that a Muslim invented it first. Shampoo I am not sure on but there are several plants in the natural world that when crushed and rubbed on the body give a cleansing foam, these were known about in Stoneage times. Ancient Greeks wore metal armour long before Islam was around. Surgery was performed by the ancient Greeks and Egyptians, though personally I wouldnt have like it with no anaesthetic! Though the Greeks didnt like to do it and it was frowned upon and the Hippocratic Oath actually warns against it.

Soup, well you've got me on that one! Same with pay checks. Rockets can be traced back to the Chinese, way before Islam came along. After all they invented gunpowder.

But Windmills? Yeah! They were first found in Persia in the 7th century AD!

Dont beleive everything you read on the internet. Muslims have no doubt invented some pretty cools things, just not most of the things on that list. Sorry.

Peace CG
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netprince
12-22-2006, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Interesting, but Chess was first found in India in about 600AD and didnt get to Persia until about 700AD and wasnt really in Arabic culture until 100 years after that.
A form of chess did indeed exist in india (Chatrang), however, the game as it is played in this day and age was 'invented' by muslims and brought into europe by the spanish muslims. So its not really an invention as such, but more like a refining of sorts. However, it is believed that even the indian version of chess is actually based on an even older version of the game from persia (Shatranj). Versions of the game also existed in china and japan but these definitely werent the oldest, but im not sure if these were before or after the european muslim versions, i think the chinese version was older than the european version and the japanese one wasnt. Some people also beleive the the modern version of chess came from the chinese version (which came from the indian version).


format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Coffee was known as a beverage about 1000BC pre-dating Islam, though it was popular in the Arabic world centuries before anywhere else.
Coffee is indeed pre-islamic, it comes originally from Ethiopia, the word coffee actually come from the name of the region the plant came from originally. It was popularised as a beverage by the Yemeni's(there is quite popular story about how the yemeni's started using it, but there isnt much in the way of proof so no point going into it. They spread it across arabia and egypt and from there it spread across the globe.

format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Its generally accepted that DaVinci sketched the first concept of the parachute, though of course its possible that a Muslim invented it first.
Not sure about this one.

format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Shampoo I am not sure on but there are several plants in the natural world that when crushed and rubbed on the body give a cleansing foam, these were known about in Stoneage times.
Shampoos and soaps were definitely first made by muslim alchemists(as they were known then), by combining plant oils with something else.


format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Ancient Greeks wore metal armour long before Islam was around.
Agreed, muslims werent the first to use metal armour

format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Surgery was performed by the ancient Greeks and Egyptians, though personally I wouldnt have like it with no anaesthetic! Though the Greeks didnt like to do it and it was frowned upon and the Hippocratic Oath actually warns against it.
Muslim physicians made a lot of medical advances and a lot of modern surgical instruments are based on those used by the muslims. However, it would definitely be erroneous to try to claim the credit for all medical advances.

format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Soup, well you've got me on that one!
Dont know if it was the soup as such, but the european 3 course meals are certainly based on andalusian muslim cuisine, i think someone by the name of Ziarab is commonly given the credit for being the person responsible for the modern meal.


format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Same with pay checks.
Not sure about this one, but i have heard something along those lines, from what i recall it was more line an IOU than a paycheck as such. A written vow(?).


format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
Rockets can be traced back to the Chinese, way before Islam came along. After all they invented gunpowder.
like a lot of other 'inventions' what the muslims did was refine what the chinese had invented. Muslims refined the gunpowder and used it militarily. they definitely did invent the military rockets and torpedo's, this is even accepted by the europeans.

format_quote Originally Posted by Curious girl2
But Windmills? Yeah! They were first found in Persia in the 7th century AD!

Dont beleive everything you read on the internet. Muslims have no doubt invented some pretty cools things, just not most of the things on that list. Sorry.

Peace CG
What the muslims gave the world in terms of science is as nothing when compared to presenting the world with the truth.
The light of islam illuminated so much of the world and Inshallah it will do so again in the near future. It will free mankind from all the falsehood. People will finally be free to do what they were created to do....worship their creator.
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Curious girl2
12-23-2006, 12:16 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by netprince



What the muslims gave the world in terms of science is as nothing when compared to presenting the world with the truth.
The light of islam illuminated so much of the world and Inshallah it will do so again in the near future. It will free mankind from all the falsehood. People will finally be free to do what they were created to do....worship their creator.
Indeed!

Peace CG
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north_malaysian
12-26-2006, 02:57 AM
i dont know, how they come out with that list...

But it seems that some "inventions" are invented by pre-Islamic people. But I think maybe they put it on the list because Muslims modernize it, or popularized it...
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SilentObserver
12-26-2006, 07:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by north_malaysian
1. Coffee
2. Chess
3. Parachute
4. Shampoo
5. Metal Armor
6. Surgery
7. Soup
8. Pay Cheques
9. Rocket and Torpedo
10. Windmill

Souce: http://english.pravda.ru/science/tech/85999-0/
Coffee? God invented coffee. Although arabs were the first to make the drink. Were they muslims?


Chess. The most commonly held view is that the predecessor of chess originated in India, since the Arabic, Persian, Greek, Portuguese and Spanish words for chess are all derived from the ancient Indian game Chaturanga.

Parachute - Leonardo da Vinci

Shampoo - Shampoo originated in England in 1877 and was derived from the Hindi word champo, meaning "to massage" or "to knead." Hairdressers were the first to make shampoo by boiling soft soap in soda water, but it did not come into popular use until after World War II.

Metal armor I don't know.

Surgery - this one is funny. Anyway, some claim the earliest surgeons were the greeks some 2400 years ago, although I am sure I heard of earlier, just can't remember right now.

Soup! Even funnier than the last. But anyway. nearly every civilization has made soup in one form or another, and if you believe in prehistoric man, they found that bamboo trees filled with clay, reptile shells, and especially the stomachs from the animals they had killed, all made perfect vessels in which to boil liquid filled with fresh meat over a hot fire.

Paycheques? You mean payment for labour? Check the Bible.

Rockets were invented by the chinese.

Windmills This one is correct, in Persia actually.
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Israfil
12-26-2006, 08:00 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by SilentObserver
Coffee? God invented coffee. Although arabs were the first to make the drink. Were they muslims?


Chess. The most commonly held view is that the predecessor of chess originated in India, since the Arabic, Persian, Greek, Portuguese and Spanish words for chess are all derived from the ancient Indian game Chaturanga.

Parachute - Leonardo da Vinci

Shampoo - Shampoo originated in England in 1877 and was derived from the Hindi word champo, meaning "to massage" or "to knead." Hairdressers were the first to make shampoo by boiling soft soap in soda water, but it did not come into popular use until after World War II.

Metal armor I don't know.

Surgery - this one is funny. Anyway, some claim the earliest surgeons were the greeks some 2400 years ago, although I am sure I heard of earlier, just can't remember right now.

Soup! Even funnier than the last. But anyway. nearly every civilization has made soup in one form or another, and if you believe in prehistoric man, they found that bamboo trees filled with clay, reptile shells, and especially the stomachs from the animals they had killed, all made perfect vessels in which to boil liquid filled with fresh meat over a hot fire.

Paycheques? You mean payment for labour? Check the Bible.

Rockets were invented by the chinese.

Windmills This one is correct, in Persia actually.
Although there are Muslim inventions and discoveries far more impressive than the ten listed, I am going to consider the list in this post.

1.) Coffee: Yes, it was first discovered by Muslims. I have to admit though that coffee was not well received initially and was forbidden by ultra conservative imams.

2.) Parachute: Abbas Ibn Firnas perfected his version of the parachute in 875 CE. Leonardo da Vinci, though given the credit for the invention for the parachute, actually invented I about 700 years later in 1483.

3.) Shampoo: Apparently your use of etymology of shampoo has presented a misconstrued view regarding this. Please read the link provided by the original poster:

Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.

http://www.wonderfulinfo.com/winfo/muslminv.htm

4.) Metal Armor: Nope, definitely not by Muslims. The Hittites, Assyrians, and Chinese were using iron armor decades before Muhammad’s (pbuh) birth.

5.) Surgery: Not by Muslims. People have been doing this centuries before the birth of Christ.

6.) Soup: Agreed

7.) Paycheques: During the Abbasid Empire, the Muslims developed a system of itemized receipts and bills. This introduced the idea of credit. Please show me a source from the Bible to support your assertion.

8.) Rockets: Agreed, the Chinese were the ones who discovered gunpowder.

9.) Windmill: Agreed


Personally, I find the list to be inaccurate and trivial. My personal list would be as follows:

1.) First ever medical encyclopedia by Mohamed al-Razi
2.) Telescope
3.) Watch
4.) Compass
5.) Astrolabe
6.) Algebra
7.) Glass
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Trumble
12-26-2006, 11:23 AM
The 'metal armor' is somewhat of a misnomer.. the Pravda article actually says;

Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw-filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders' metal armour and was an effective form of insulation - so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland.
It's worth reading the whole piece, as it clarifies a lot of things. It doesn't say that muslims invented surgery, for example, but only that many instruments in current use are of the same design invented by a muslim (al-Zahrawi) in the 10th century.
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SUMMAYAH
12-26-2006, 11:27 AM
interesting....
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'Abd al-Baari
12-26-2006, 11:30 AM
very interesting read
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SUMMAYAH
12-26-2006, 11:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullah2907
very interesting read
So this very post made you a full member?
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Mezier
12-27-2006, 01:01 AM
:w:

Chess invented by muslims?

I thought the Prophet (saw) forbade it.

:sl:
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S1aveofA11ah
06-09-2008, 07:15 PM
1 The story goes that an Arab named Khalid was tending his goats in the Kaffa region of southern Ethiopia, when he noticed his animals became livelier after eating a certain berry. He boiled the berries to make the first coffee. Certainly the first record of the drink is of beans exported from Ethiopia to Yemen where Sufis drank it to stay awake all night to pray on special occasions. By the late 15th century it had arrived in Mecca and Turkey from where it made its way to Venice in 1645. It was brought to England in 1650 by a Turk named Pasqua Rosee who opened the first coffee house in Lombard Street in the City of London. The Arabic qahwa became the Turkish kahve then the Italian caffé and then English coffee.


2 The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one.

3 A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.

4 A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing. Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.

5 Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders' most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.

6 Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam's foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today - liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is haram, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry.

7 The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.

8 Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw-filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders' metal armour and was an effective form of insulation - so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland.

9 The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe's Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture. It was much stronger than the rounded arch used by the Romans and Normans, thus allowing the building of bigger, higher, more complex and grander buildings. Other borrowings from Muslim genius included ribbed vaulting, rose windows and dome-building techniques. Europe's castles were also adapted to copy the Islamic world's - with arrow slits, battlements, a barbican and parapets. Square towers and keeps gave way to more easily defended round ones. Henry V's castle architect was a Muslim.

10 Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. His scalpels, bone saws, forceps, fine scissors for eye surgery and many of the 200 instruments he devised are recognisable to a modern surgeon. It was he who discovered that catgut used for internal stitches dissolves away naturally (a discovery he made when his monkey ate his lute strings) and that it can be also used to make medicine capsules. In the 13th century, another Muslim medic named Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today.

11 The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe.

12 The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.

13 The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action.

14 The system of numbering in use all round the world is probably Indian in origin but the style of the numerals is Arabic and first appears in print in the work of the Muslim mathematicians al-Khwarizmi and al-Kindi around 825. Algebra was named after al-Khwarizmi's book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi's discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology.

15 Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal - soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas - see No 4).

16 Carpets were regarded as part of Paradise by medieval Muslims, thanks to their advanced weaving techniques, new tinctures from Islamic chemistry and highly developed sense of pattern and arabesque which were the basis of Islam's non-representational art. In contrast, Europe's floors were distinctly earthly, not to say earthy, until Arabian and Persian carpets were introduced. In England, as Erasmus recorded, floors were "covered in rushes, occasionally renewed, but so imperfectly that the bottom layer is left undisturbed, sometimes for 20 years, harbouring expectoration, vomiting, the leakage of dogs and men, ale droppings, scraps of fish, and other abominations not fit to be mentioned". Carpets, unsurprisingly, caught on quickly.

17 The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.

18 By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.

19 Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.

20 Medieval Europe had kitchen and herb gardens, but it was the Arabs who developed the idea of the garden as a place of beauty and meditation. The first royal pleasure gardens in Europe were opened in 11th-century Muslim Spain. Flowers which originated in Muslim gardens include the carnation and the tulip.
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Khayal
06-09-2008, 11:50 PM
:sl:

MashaAllaah! jazaakAllaah khayr for sharing.

:w:


.
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Mikayeel
06-09-2008, 11:54 PM
:sl:

Great post bro!!
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SIRAJ-UD-DEEN
01-28-2011, 09:04 AM
Assalaamu Alaikum Wr Wb,


1. Surgery

Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.

2. Coffee

Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.

3. Flying machine

"Abbas ibn Firnas was the first person to make a real attempt to construct a flying machine and fly," said Hassani. In the 9th century he designed a winged apparatus, roughly resembling a bird costume. In his most famous trial near Cordoba in Spain, Firnas flew upward for a few moments, before falling to the ground and partially breaking his back. His designs would undoubtedly have been an inspiration for famed Italian artist and inventor Leonardo da Vinci's hundreds of years later, said Hassani.

4. University

In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.

5. Algebra

The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.

6. Optics

"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.

7. Music

Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.

8. Toothbrush

According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.

9. The crank

Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.

10. Hospitals

"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.

For more information on muslim inventions go to: muslimheritage.com. For more information about the exhibition at London's Science Museum go to: science museum.org.uk

Source : islambestreligion.wordpress.com
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jawad555
10-01-2013, 06:06 AM
JazakAllah! Nice Information brother. Good work.
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ammadpk200
12-23-2014, 01:07 AM
interesting inventions
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The-Deist
01-08-2015, 09:46 PM
I believe the armor was given to Dawud Alaihi Salam read the story or search it in the internet
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