Islam and Evolution

[CosmicPathos]

forward to 25 mins and check out the takfeeris .

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Bro scientist, people do takfeer of Usama hassan because they say he believes that man has evolved from a 'common ancestor' to apes.

Muslims believe Adam was created by Allah's hands as He said in the Qur'an. [surah Saad 38:75]

[CosmicPathos]

:salamext:


Bro scientist, people do takfeer of Usama hassan because they say he believes that man has evolved from a 'common ancestor' to apes.

Muslims believe Adam was created by Allah's hands as He said in the Qur'an. [surah Saad 38:75]

walaikaum assalam.

So was Adam (as) created within the universe or outside the universe? Allah swt is outside the Universe. So did Allah swt put His "hands" into the Universe to create Adam (as) by picking up clay and making a statue out of it? If someone says yes then that is Kufr as Allah swt or His "hands" are not a part of creation.

Even if Usama Hassan is wrong, the behavior of audience was primitive.

[- Qatada -]

walaikaum assalam.

So was Adam (as) created within the universe or outside the universe? Allah swt is outside the Universe. So did Allah swt put His "hands" into the Universe to create Adam (as) by picking up clay and making a statue out of it? If someone says yes then that is Kufr as Allah swt or His "hands" are not a part of creation.

Even if Usama Hassan is wrong, the behavior of audience was primitive.

:salamext:


Hadith - Abu Dawood. Imam Ahmad has narrated from Abu Musa that the Prophet

said [meaning]:

"Allah has created Adam from a handful (soil) which He had gathered from all over the earth. That is how the children of Adam came according to the (colour and nature of the) earth. There are white among them, as well as red and black, and cross colours. There are those among them who are of bad nature and good nature, soft as well as harsh and in between".

Sheikh Al-Albani (rahimahullah) declares the hadeeth authentic in Saheeh Al-Jaami' As-Sagheer wa-Ziyadatuhu (No. 1759) as well as in Silsalatul-Ahaadeeth-as-Saheehah (No. 1630).

http://muttaqun.com/adam.html


Us humans [starting from Adam] originated from the origins of this Earth (dust), we live in it, are buried into it at death, and are resurrected out of it on Judgement Day.



Even if Allah did put His hands into the Earth and the Universe - they are His creations. That does not mean that He is part of them. The error of the people of Pantheism (wahdat al wujood) was that they said Allah is everywhere in the Universe, or that the Universe is all 'within' Allah. This is where those beliefs are criticized. Since we all agree that Allah is above His creation.

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[CosmicPathos]

:salamext:


Hadith - Abu Dawood. Imam Ahmad has narrated from Abu Musa that the Prophet

said [meaning]:

"Allah has created Adam from a handful (soil) which He had gathered from all over the earth. That is how the children of Adam came according to the (colour and nature of the) earth. There are white among them, as well as red and black, and cross colours. There are those among them who are of bad nature and good nature, soft as well as harsh and in between".

Sheikh Al-Albani (rahimahullah) declares the hadeeth authentic in Saheeh Al-Jaami' As-Sagheer wa-Ziyadatuhu (No. 1759) as well as in Silsalatul-Ahaadeeth-as-Saheehah (No. 1630).

http://muttaqun.com/adam.html


Us humans [starting from Adam] originated from the origins of this Earth (dust), we live in it, are buried into it at death, and are resurrected out of it on Judgement Day.



Even if Allah did put His hands into the Earth and the Universe - they are His creations. That does not mean that He is part of them. The error of the people of Pantheism (wahdat al wujood) was that they said Allah is everywhere in the Universe, or that the Universe is all 'within' Allah. This is where those beliefs are criticized. Since we all agree that Allah is above His creation.

yes Allah is above His creation, so are His "Hands." If someone is saying that Allah's hands can be in creation, it means Allah's hands are limited? Allah's Hands are infinite, and nothing in creation is infinite. Its a contradiction to say that infinite (Allah's Hands) can be in finite (Universe and Earth).

walaikum assalam.

P.S. That hadith actually seems to support evolution. White people have white skin because of the nature of the Earth/Lands they come from! There is less Sunlight in Northern Hemisphere of Earth so these people lost melanin from their skin and their color changed. I personally do not believe in evolution of man from lower animals but the other side has strong arguments and I am just putting them here.

[- Qatada -]

yes Allah is above His creation, so are His "Hands." If someone is saying that Allah's hands can be in creation, it means Allah's hands are limited? Allah's Hands are infinite, and nothing in creation is infinite. Its a contradiction to say that infinite (Allah's Hands) can be in finite (Universe and Earth).

walaikum assalam.

:salamext:


The beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah [the people of Sunnah] is to accept the Texts [Qur'an and Sunnah] as they are in preference to personal opinions.

So as the Authentic Hadith above shows that Allah did infact pick up a "handful of dust from this Earth", from which He created Adam - we believe in it without questioning the 'howness' of 'HOW' Allah does things. So to question "How Allah's hand fitted into the Universe" is a futile question, since Allah is able to do all things.

The way of Ahlus Sunnah is to never question the Kayfiyyah [Howness] of how Allah does things. Rather, that is the way of the strayed sects such as the Mu'tazila, Ashaa'irah etc.

[- Qatada -]

P.S. That hadith actually seems to support evolution. White people have white skin because of the nature of the Earth/Lands they come from! There is less Sunlight in Northern Hemisphere of Earth so these people lost melanin from their skin and their color changed. I personally do not believe in evolution of man from lower animals but the other side has strong arguments and I am just putting them here.

:salamext:

Akhi, that is not a support of human evolution or 'common ancestory' :) Rather, we can just argue that Adam -was placed into Earth- and his children spread to other lands, with darker skinned children surviving more in hotter climates, and lighter skinned children surviving more in colder climates. Hence the greater population of a race in a suitable location. This would fit into "Survival of the Fittest", but that can be different to evolution.

[CosmicPathos]

:salamext:


The beliefs of Ahlus Sunnah [the people of Sunnah] is to accept the Texts [Qur'an and Sunnah] as they are in preference to personal opinions.

So as the Authentic Hadith above shows that Allah did infact pick up a "handful of dust from this Earth", from which He created Adam - we believe in it without questioning the 'howness' of 'HOW' Allah does things. So to question "How Allah's hand fitted into the Universe" is a futile question, since Allah is able to do all things.

The way of Ahlus Sunnah is to never question the Kayfiyyah [Howness] of how Allah does things. Rather, that is the way of the strayed sects such as the Mu'tazila, Ashaa'irah etc.

yes Allhamdulilah we do not question the scripture. But when we say Allah created everything. That is true. But are diseases directly created by Allah swt? No. Allah swt allowed some virus etc to give disease. In the same way when Allah swt says that He created something by His hands, why cant we say that Allah swt means that He facilitated the natural creation to create man?

jazakAllah.

[- Qatada -]

yes Allahmdulilah we do not question the text. But when we say Allah created everything. That is true. But are diseases directly created by Allah swt? No. Allah swt allowed some virus etc to give disease. In the same way when Allah swt says that He created something by His hands, why cant we say that Allah swt means that He facilitated the natural creation to create man?

jazakAllah.

:salamext:

اللَّهُ خَالِقُ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ ۖ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَكِيلٌ

Allah is the Creator of Everything. And He is over everything a Wakeel [Disposer of Affairs]. [Zumar 39:62]

Allah created EVERYTHING [KULLI shay']. He even created the virus.

However, when something evil happens - it is the way of the people of Sunnah to not attribute the blame on Allah. Evil is attributed to creation because Allah forbids evil to us, so if we do it (with the choice He has given us) - we are opposing His teachings to abstain from it.


Now in regard to the Virus, we say Allah created it. But did He create it with His hands [YaDay]? Yad = hand.




Allah's methods of Creation;

1 - With His Hands. [i.e. Adam in: Saad 38:75]
2 - the Command of "Kun" [Be!] and it is. [Yasin 36:82]


There may be other methods too, but we are aware of these two based on the Qur'an.




In regard to Allah creating Adam with His Hands, He says to Iblees/Satan;

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ ۖ أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

[ Allah ] said, "O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My hands [bi yaday]? Were you arrogant [then], or were you [already] among the haughty?" [Saad 38:75]

If we see the aayaat before this, we see that it is referring to Adam being created by Allah's hands.

This is a special honour for us children of Adam, that Allah specifically created our father specifically by His hands.

[Nizam1]

Personally, I do not believe in evolution and I will not allow it to be taught to my children.

[syed_z]

Brother mad_scientist and Qatada good discussion. Qatada has made a very good point that Allah (swt) creating us with His Own Hands means we have a special place amongst all the other Creation of Allah (swt). And He breathed His Spirit in to us, which makes us even more higher than all the other creation of Allah (swt) and that is why He (swt) chose us only as vicegerents/representatives of His to become on Earth.


About the Hadith that Allah (swt) created Adam by picking up dirt from different parts of the earth is to show not only their differences in physical appearance but also their nature as the hadith says ..."and among them are the soft and rugged, the impure and pure." (abu dawud)

So some are strong as in made for hard physical work, some are soft nature and are intelligent on the other hand. Some are wise and some are not that wise. Others are good at learning and teaching and then there are who are good at fighting. So this is what i have understood about this Hadith of Adam (a.s) being made by clay picked up from different parts of the earth. Just like how some parts of the earth are desert regions and then there are green regions, as well mountainous regions.

Salaam...

[selsebil]

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,


According to Darwin, life originated from simple single-celled organisms that gave rise to multicellular organisms through a process of gradual change, along with random mutations, over millions of years. According to more developed forms of evolutionary theory, all living things came from amino acids within water, and later became single-celled organisms. By interacting with each other and the immediate environment for billions of years, either gradually or suddenly they evolved into complex multicellular animals. Invertebrates gave rise to aquatic vertebrates, which evolved into amphibians, which became reptiles. Later on, some reptiles evolved into birds, while others evolved into mammals and culminated, eventually, in humanity.

The evidence usually consists of several incomplete pieces of fossils. But even the actual fossil record does not support this view. To our knowledge, no other scientific hypothesis is sustained on the basis of so many—and so important—missing links. Consider the following: Despite many varieties, bacteria have not evolved into anything different and higher, though they adapt very quickly. Cockroaches and insects remain unchanged after almost 350 million years. Fruit flies, arthropoda, sponges, sea crabs, snakes, lizards, mice, and many other species did not evolve over hundreds of millions of years. Scientists have found bees and honey from millions of years ago. Those bees produced honey and built honeycombs just as they do today, and use the same geometrical measures. So, for that whole expanse of time neither the bee’s brain and physiological structure nor the way it produces honey have changed. Human beings are exactly the same as they have been since their creation.

[selsebil]

Adam AS was created in heaven.Heaven is a part of this universe.The expression used by Qatada " hands of Allah" is a metaphor.Of course it's not a physical hand.

walaikaum assalam.

So was Adam (as) created within the universe or outside the universe? Allah swt is outside the Universe. So did Allah swt put His "hands" into the Universe to create Adam (as) by picking up clay and making a statue out of it? If someone says yes then that is Kufr as Allah swt or His "hands" are not a part of creation.

Even if Usama Hassan is wrong, the behavior of audience was primitive.

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum Brother,

Please read this -

What’s Islam’s position on evolution and creationism?

Monday, April 19th, 2010

I have met Muslims who believe in evolution i want to say its haram (forbidden) but I’m not sure so that’s why I’m asking if believing that we came from monkeys is haram?

It violates what God says in the Quran,
“[God] said, “O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My hands? Did you deem [yourself] big, or were you among the haughty?” {38:75}
For all other creatures, other than man, there is nothing in Islam that says they did not come into being by evolution. Evolution is a physical law that God created, thus everything created directly by God (such as man) or indirectly by evolution is in fact created by God because God is the Creator and Maintainer of the law of evolution.

One verse says, “And He is who has brought you into being from a single being,” (6:98)
The thing I don’t understand is: This single being could mean a single human or a fertilized egg – which evolves into a human?

“Brought you into being” is an inaccurate translation. The word أنشأكم means “He initiated you.” Thus, this verse is referring to the creation of mankind from the single human Adam.
To see more examples of the word إنشاء (initiation), examine 56:35-38.

According to creationism, all species present on earth today have remained unchanged since they were created by God.
Darwin’s theory of evolution contradicts this.

And so does the Quran and science. We know, first from the Quran and then later confirmed by science, that the fertilized egg (Nutfa) changes into a clinging blood clot (Alaqa) which develops into a morsel (Mudhgha) which develops into bones which then develop flesh which then develops into what God has described as “another creation” (23:14). So, clearly what God creates He causes to go through changes. All the changes that creatures go through are according to God’s laws. Therefore, evolution is not contrary to Islamic teachings.
The problem with both creationism and evolution theories is that they insist that they cannot be combined: it’s either one or the other. Islam has no problem combining them. Man was created directly by God’s hands, while all other creatures may have evolved from others, thus indirectly created by God.

But how about this, it mentions evolver:
“He is ALLAH, the creator, the evolver. (Yousuf Ali’s translation) (59:24)

Not an accurate translation either. Sorry. The word البارئ (Al-Baari’) means the one who originates from nothing. That is why “innocence” is translated براءة (Baraa’a) in Arabic and the jurisprudential term Al-Baraa’a Al-Asliyya means the original allowance of everything. The word براءة also means absolving. What is common between all these semantics is “original state.”
In Arabic schools, the theory of evolution is called نظرية النشوء والارتقاء (the theory of initiation and refinement). I think that the word الارتقاء (refinement) is an excellent translation of the word evolution. The wrong part of the theory, IMHO, is the نشوء (initiation) part. The theory does not prove it, but there is a ton of evidence to support the refinement part.

So, the origin of life that says the hot dilute soups of the world in its primitive conditions gave rise to simple polymers and that gave rise to prokaryotes, first form of life. So, can this word, Al-Baari, be used to explain that theory? That Allah made conditions of life origination possible, originated life from nothing?

Al-Baari’ means God initiated the first creation. Al-Khaaliq means that He creates from it subsequent creations, either directly, such as creating Adam from mud, or indirectly by evolution or other means not yet discovered.

I read that experiments were carried out, primitive earth conditions were provided and primitive prokayotic type of organism was obtained. So, this couldn’t be possible that man does something Allah has not.

If they couldn’t obtain that primitive organism, could the experiment have continued? That is why initiation is necessary and only God can do it.

But the Quran provides no reference to evolution? How come? I know the Quran is not for explaining science, but I just find it strange. I’m used to hearing that the Quran’s says everything. I need more study.

The Quran does not mention evolution directly, but it does draw attention to the process. For example,
“He said, ‘Our Lord is He who gave each thing its form and then guided [it].’ ” (20:50)
Some of that guidance can be found in the “genetic instructions” found in every chromosome. Just like our bodies know how to heal wounds and how to adapt to extreme living conditions.

Posted in Creation, Evolution, The Quran | No Comments »

Does Islam support evolution, or creation?

Tuesday, May 5th, 2009 Both!
Most people misunderstand, or misrepresent evolution. The evolutionist who totally reject creation are wrong in their unfounded assumption that everything came info being through evolution. The creationist who totally reject evolution are wrong in their blanket assertion that everything came into being through creation, by which they mean bringing something out of nothing.
The fact of the matter, IMHO, is that evolution is simply another one of the natural laws that God created. Some beings have evolved and others were directly created. Whether directly or indirectly a being came into this world, they all were created by God because God is the creator of the laws of evolution and the one who set them in motion!
Evolution does not mean something sprung out of nothing as some opponents of evolution base their opposition. It means that changes occur to an existing being that transform it to another being. We see evidence of that with caterpillars evolving into butterflies in a matter of weeks! But just because we cannot see the guide, we cannot say that these changes occur without guidance. That’s simply absurd because the changes that turn a fertilized egg into a baby are always the same, take place in the same order and take pretty much the same amount of time for millions of babies that are born everyday. Order doesn’t happen without guidance. If the guidance is genetic instructions in each chromosome, who wrote them there?
Creation does not necessarily mean bringing something out of nothing, though it can also mean that. The verb, in both English and Arabic, may be used for bringing something out of something else. One of the creatures that came into being by direct creation is man! In the holy Quran, God asks Satan, “What prevented you to prostrate to what I created with my hands?” (38:75) That sounds a lot like direct creation, doesn’t it? Thus, to say that man evolved from apes is simply not backed by science, which to date has failed to find that “missing link.” Likewise, the many examples in nature that back up evolution cannot be rejected because God is the force behind their evolution. He chose to bring them into being by means of evolution rather than direct creation. He can do both and He can do whatever He wills!
Thus, creation and evolution can co-exist in harmony, LOL.

[- Qatada -]

Adam AS was created in heaven.Heaven is a part of this universe.The expression used by Qatada " hands of Allah" is a metaphor.Of course it's not a physical hand.

:salamext:

No, Adam was created by the hands of Allah literally. :) Since the word "yad" mean's 'hand' in arabic, and Allah said He created Adam with His "yaday" [two hands].

The difference is that Allah never told us how His hands look like, so we just say as Allah says - that He created Adam with His hands, without us knowing how His hands look like.

[Zafran]

:salamext:

No, Adam was created by the hands of Allah literally. :) Since the word "yad" mean's 'hand' in arabic, and Allah said He created Adam with His "yaday" [two hands].

The difference is that Allah never told us how His hands look like, so we just say as Allah says - that He created Adam with His hands, without us knowing how His hands look like.

salaam

No offence but these verses are unclear verses - they cannot be taken literally without a doubt otherwise your coming into the realm of anthromorphism. So what you mean is that we dont take them literal or metaphorical (otherwise we are interpreating these verses). We just state it as it is stated. Allah knows best.

peace

[- Qatada -]

salaam

No offence but these verses are unclear verses - they cannot be taken literally without a doubt otherwise your coming into the realm of anthromorphism. So what you mean is that we dont take them literal or metaphorical (otherwise we are interpreating these verses). We just state it as it is stated. Allah knows best.

peace

Asalam alykum.

It is literal. And the salaf believed Allah's Attributes which He affirmed for Himself, without altering their Dhahir (apparent) meaning and not asking any question rearding the Kayfiyyah (Howness) of them.

I will give you examples from the salaf later insha Allah. :)

[Hiroshi]

:salamext:


Bro scientist, people do takfeer of Usama hassan because they say he believes that man has evolved from a 'common ancestor' to apes.

Muslims believe Adam was created by Allah's hands as He said in the Qur'an. [surah Saad 38:75]

Can I ask a question here? Surah 2:31-33 has an account of Adam naming the animals and then later in verse 36, Adam is cast out of heaven and made to dwell on the earth. So were the animals in the garden of Eden in heaven (notice that verse 31 says that they were placed before angels)? Are we to suppose that the animals evolved in heaven?

[- Qatada -]

Can I ask a question here? Surah 2:31-33 has an account of Adam naming the animals and then later in verse 36, Adam is cast out of heaven and made to dwell on the earth. So were the animals in the garden of Eden in heaven (notice that verse 31 says that they were placed before angels)? Are we to suppose that the animals evolved in heaven?

First, i'm not sure where you got the opinion that Adam was told to name Animals. Can you tell me where you got this view from?

[- Qatada -]

salaam

No offence but these verses are unclear verses - they cannot be taken literally without a doubt otherwise your coming into the realm of anthromorphism. So what you mean is that we dont take them literal or metaphorical (otherwise we are interpreating these verses). We just state it as it is stated. Allah knows best.

peace

:wasalamex


If Allah meant the following saying metaphorically;

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ ۖ أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

[ Allah ] said, "O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My hands [bi yaday]? Were you arrogant [then], or were you [already] among the haughty?" [Saad 38:75]

Then what is so special about Adam? If Allah created Adam with a metaphorical hand [or 'power'], then didn't He also create Iblees [satan] with His power also?

The fact that He made Adam with His hands showed the special status of Adam in comparison to the other creatures.



Furthermore, if someone said that this is anthromorphosism - they are wrong. Because we affirm that Allah has hands [as He said], yet we do not say it is like a human Hand. It would only be anthromorphosism if we said Allah's hand is a human hand.

Similarly, if you said that a human has a face, it is not the same face of a bird. Although you call both faces by the same term; Face.




Allah says;

لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ ۖ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ

There is not anything like Him (whatsoever), and He is The Ever-Hearing, The Ever-Seeing.

[as-Shuraa 42:11]

So we affirm what Allah attributed for Himself, without distorting the meanings.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=9656


First Hadeeth

This hadeeth is found in Musnad Ahmad, Hadith no. 5157:

ورسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يقول هكذا بيده ويحركها يقبل بها ويدبر يمجد الرب نفسه أنا الجبار أنا المتكبر أنا الملك أنا العزيز أنا الكريم فرجف برسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم المنبر حتى قلنا ليخرن به
حدثنا عبد الله ثنا أبي ثنا عفان ثنا حماد بن سلمة أنا إسحاق بن عبد الله يعنى بن أبي طلحة عن عبيد الله بن مقسم عن بن عمر : ان رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم قرأ هذه الآية ذات يوم على المنبر { وما قدروا الله حق قدره والأرض جميعا قبضته يوم القيامة والسموات مطويات بيمينه سبحانه وتعالى عما يشركون }

Abdullah – Abdullah’s Father – Affan – Hammad bin Salamah – Ishaaq bin Abdullah (i.e. bin Abi Talha) – ‘Obaidillah bin Muqsim – Ibn Umar: The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him recited this ayah on the pulpit one day “They made not a just estimate of Allah such as is due to Him. And on the Day of Resurrection the whole of the earth will be grasped by His Hand and the heavens will be rolled up in His Right Hand. Glorified is He, and High is He above all that they associate as partners with Him!” (Surah 39:67) and Allah’s Messenger peace be upon him said like this with his hand moving it back and forth. The Lord glorifies Himself saying “I am the All Compeller, I am the Proud, I am the King, I am the Mighty, I am the Generous”. The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him began to shiver on the pulpit until we said it will collapse with him.


Authenticity of First Hadeeth

Shaykh Shu’ayb Al Arna’ut commented on this hadeeth saying:

إسناده صحيح على شرط مسلم رجاله ثقات رجال الشيخين غير حماد بن سلمة فمن رجال مسلم. عفان: هو ابن مسلم الباهلي

It’s isnaad is Saheeh [authentic] on the condition of Muslim. It’s men are Thiqaat [trustworthy] and the men of the two Shaykhs except for Hammad bin Salamah for he is only from the men of Muslim. Affan is Ibn Muslim Al Baahili.

Second Hadeeth;

This narration is found in Al Tabarani's Al Mu'jam Al Kabeer, Volume 12, page 355:

وقبض رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يده وجعل يقبضها ويبسطها ثم قال : ( فيقول : أنا الرحمن أنا الملك أين الجبارون أين المتكبرون ) وتمايل رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم عن يمينه وعن شماله حتى نظرت إلى المنبر يتحرك من أسفل شيء منه حتى أقول أساقط هو برسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم
حدثنا يحيى بن أيوب العلاف المصري ثنا سعيد بن أبي مريم أنا ابن أبي حازم ثنا أبو حازم عن عبيد الله بن مقسم أنه سمع عبد الله بن عمر : يقول : رأيت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم على المنبر وهو يقول : ( يأخذ الجبار سماواته وأرضه بيديه )

Yahya bin Ayub Al 'Alaaf Al Masri - Sa'eed bin Abi Maryam - Ibn Abi Hazmi - Abu Hazim - ‘Obaidillah bin Muqsim - Abdullah ibn Umar said: I saw the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him on the pulpit saying "The All Compeller will take His heavens and earth in His Hand" and the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him clasped his hand continuously clasping and unfolding it. Then he said "Then He will say: I am the Most Gracious, I am the King. Where are the ones who are arrogant and proud?". Then Allah's Messenger peace be upon him started swaying left and right until I saw the pulpit move from its bottom until I said that it is going to collapse with the Prophet peace be upon him on it.




Authenticity of Second Hadeeth

Yahya bin Ayub: He has narrated hadeeths in Sunan Al Nisaa'i. Ibn Hajar and others said that he is saduq according to Shaykh Al Albani in his article Hawl Iftaar Al Saa'im Qabal Safarihi Ba'd Al Fajr. Him being saduq is affirmed in Al Kaashif fi Ma'rifat man lahu Riwaayah fi Al Kitub Al Sittah, Volume 2, page 361, no. 6135. Al Mizzi in his Al Tahdheeb Al Kamal cited Al Nisai saying that he is a righteous man (saalih).

Sa'eed bin Abi Maryam: His full name is Sa'eed bin Al Hakam bin Muhammad bin Salim. He is a Saheeh Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim narrator.

Ibn Abi Haazim: He is Abdul Aziz ibn Abi Haazim. Check the link to Saheeh Bukhari that I put for Sa'eed, Ibn Abi Haazim is there. He is a Saheeh Muslim
narrator as well.
Abu Haazim: He is Ibn Abi Haazim's father. He is Abi Haazim Salamah bin Dinar. Just like his son he is a Saheeh Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim narrator. Refer to the links that I just provided to Saheeh Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim and you will find him there.

As for 'Obaidillah, he is there in the Musnad Ahmad narration and we saw that Shaykh Al Arna'ut said he was a narrator for both Bukhari and Muslim.


This isnad is inshallah saheeh, if not hasan. Furthermore, we have the shaahid (i.e. corroboration) from the Musnad Ahmad hadith so this hadeeth is definitely saheeh inshallah.



What Is Derived From These Hadeeths?

Notice the parts that I have put in bold where Ibn Umar said that after the Prophet (peace be upon him) talked about how Allah will grasp the heavens and the earth on the Day of Judgement with His Right Hand the Prophet (peace be upon him) would make an action with his hand. This is similar to the hadeeth where the Prophet (peace be upon him) pointed to his eyes and ears to affirm sight and hearing for Allah (something Asharis would agree with). Using that same logic, the Prophet (peace be upon him) is affirming the attribute of the Hand for Allah. If we didn't know the meaning of Hand (according to Asharis Tafweed Al Ma'na) or if we were to interpret it metaphorically as power or something else (according to Asharis Ta'weel) then it would have been meaningless and misleading for the Prophet (peace be upon him) to make an action with his hand.

If the meaning of Hand was not known for Allah then why on earth would the Prophet (peace be upon him) use his hand for emphasis? The same logic applies to ta'weel.

This is "clear" and "powerful" evidence that the Prophet (peace be upon him) recognized that Allah literally has a Hand (unlike that of creation of course).

[Hiroshi]

First, i'm not sure where you got the opinion that Adam was told to name Animals. Can you tell me where you got this view from?

If I am allowed to quote them, there are fairly obvious parallels in Genesis 2:19 "whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name" and the Midrash on Genesis: "God said to the Angels, "His wisdom is greater than yours." Then brought he before them beasts, cattle and birds and asked for their names but they knew them not. But when he created man ... etc."

[- Qatada -]

If I am allowed to quote them, there are fairly obvious parallels in Genesis 2:19 "whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name" and the Midrash on Genesis: "God said to the Angels, "His wisdom is greater than yours." Then brought he before them beasts, cattle and birds and asked for their names but they knew them not. But when he created man ... etc."

We as Muslims stay neutral on issues of previous scripture when it does not contradict the Islamic sources [Qur'an and the Prophetic Sunnah/teachings].

So my response would be accordingly; I simply don't know.


Since I don't know what you mean by your question, what you want to find out through the answer, I can't answer accordingly. Maybe you can give me some insight into the intent of your original question? :)


Peace.

[Zafran]

:wasalamex


If Allah meant the following saying metaphorically;

قَالَ يَا إِبْلِيسُ مَا مَنَعَكَ أَن تَسْجُدَ لِمَا خَلَقْتُ بِيَدَيَّ ۖ أَسْتَكْبَرْتَ أَمْ كُنتَ مِنَ الْعَالِينَ

[ Allah ] said, "O Iblees, what prevented you from prostrating to that which I created with My hands [bi yaday]? Were you arrogant [then], or were you [already] among the haughty?" [Saad 38:75]

Then what is so special about Adam? If Allah created Adam with a metaphorical hand [or 'power'], then didn't He also create Iblees [satan] with His power also?

The fact that He made Adam with His hands showed the special status of Adam in comparison to the other creatures.



Furthermore, if someone said that this is anthromorphosism - they are wrong. Because we affirm that Allah has hands [as He said], yet we do not say it is like a human Hand. It would only be anthromorphosism if we said Allah's hand is a human hand.

Similarly, if you said that a human has a face, it is not the same face of a bird. Although you call both faces by the same term; Face.




Allah says;

لَيْسَ كَمِثْلِهِ شَيْءٌ ۖ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْبَصِيرُ

There is not anything like Him (whatsoever), and He is The Ever-Hearing, The Ever-Seeing.

[as-Shuraa 42:11]

So we affirm what Allah attributed for Himself, without distorting the meanings.

Salaam

Thats not true - and using ahad hadiths isnt a sound basis of establishing that Allah swt has hands literally anyway has you copy and paste I will give you a video :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1D_1hcJbuk

I think its clear that salaf didnt interpreat the Hand of Allah literally of merthophorically - they didnt interpreat it fullstop - and thats the best way - If you watch it from 21.40 He'll explain the view of the Salaf - If you watch it from 19:30 he'll explain about the hand.

If the meaning of Hand was not known for Allah then why on earth would the Prophet (peace be upon him) use his hand for emphasis? The same logic applies to ta'weel.

The salaf did not do Ta'weel full stop - simply because they didnt have to it was simple Allah swt said it they accepted it - the Ta'weel of the Asharis and the Hanbalis came later to counter the various groups that developed later - mainly the anthromorphists.

peace

[Salahudeen]

I'm confused, how come ahad hadiths can't be used :S are they not sahih?

[- Qatada -]

asalam alykum

Brother Zafran, that is a strange response.

1) Allah said He created Adam with His hands (yaday) - why did He say that to Iblees -about -Adam- if Allah also created Iblees with His power?

2 - Since when did the people of Sunnah reject Ahad ahadith? Did you know that the famous hadith of Jibreel on Islam, Emaan and Ihsan (on the authority of Umar b. Al Khatab) is also ahad?


I don't like debating this issue too much, but the original point of me quoting the ayah was to refute human evolution. So lets stick to that.

[Salahudeen]

I don't understand is Allah lying when he said he created adam with his hands? You said it's unclear verse but it doesn't understand how, Allah said he created Adam with his two hands what is unclear, am confused :(

[Predator]

The ancestors of apes were the Jews.

The Quran tells us of what Allah did to those Jews who broke the Sabbath and of the humiliating
punishment he gave to those specific Jews in the time of Moses!

002.065
YUSUFALI: And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

005.060

YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

[syed_z]

The ancestors of apes were the Jews.

The Quran tells us of what Allah did to those Jews who broke the Sabbath and of the humiliating
punishment he gave to those specific Jews in the time of Moses!

002.065
YUSUFALI: And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

005.060

YUSUFALI: Say: "Shall I point out to you something much worse than this, (as judged) by the treatment it received from Allah? those who incurred the curse of Allah and His wrath, those of whom some He transformed into apes and swine, those who worshipped evil;- these are (many times) worse in rank, and far more astray from the even path!"

Salaam brother actually the Ancestors of apes were not Jews rather the apes did live even before the time of the existence of Jews. When a Companion asked Prophet Muhammad (Saw) about the above Verses that Jews became apes and swines to which the Prophet (saw) confirmed that apes even existed before the Jews and other nations, which means their ancestors are not humans.


A person said: Allah's Messenger, what about those apes and swine which suffered metamorphosis? Thereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Verily, Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, did not destroy a people or did not torment a people, and let their race grow. Apes and swine had been even before that (when the deniers of truth were tormented and suffered metamorphosis). (Kitab Ul Qadr, Sahih Muslim)


So we can assume from this Tradition and the commentators of the Quran say that, this metamorphosis happened to a group amongst the Jews and not all jews, and that group perished as time passed by. Such nation who are Punished by Allah (swt) become extinct, their race stops and Allah (swt) saved those from among them who are righteous.

Other commentators are of the view that this metamorphosis was not actual rather by turning them in to Apes and Swines, Allah (swt) changed their hearts and minds and they became lustful like the swines and wild like the apes. And Allah (swt) knows best. May Allah (swt) keep us safe from His Punishment and Forgive us. Ameen.

Salaam :)

[Zafran]

asalam alykum

Brother Zafran, that is a strange response.

1) Allah said He created Adam with His hands (yaday) - why did He say that to Iblees -about -Adam- if Allah also created Iblees with His power?

2 - Since when did the people of Sunnah reject Ahad ahadith? Did you know that the famous hadith of Jibreel on Islam, Emaan and Ihsan (on the authority of Umar b. Al Khatab) is also ahad?


I don't like debating this issue too much, but the original point of me quoting the ayah was to refute human evolution. So lets stick to that.

salaam

Its not strange at all - its clear - did you watch the video

1 - You dont seem to understand what I said - I accept that verse but do not do Ta'weel just like the salaf didnt - neither literal nor metaphorical - did you realy watch the video??

2 - Yes only through Ijma - the hadiths you provided have not been used by any scholars that I am aware of expect the website that you posted - Hadiths like the intercession of the prophet or other well accpeted ahad hadiths have been used because there is a preety much a consensus on them - However the hadiths you used I'm preety sure not all the schaolrs of sunnah wa Jammah will accept them as I am well aware (as I believe you are as well) that your view is not the only view out there within sunnah wal Jammah

Yes lets go back to the topic But it would be nice if you actually look at what I have posted (the video) rather then just basing your entire aqeada on well 2 hadiths that rarely get mentioned when it comes to aqeada.

Your right it is a grey issue

peace