Qelalah-Qataluh Hebrew-Arabic connection?

[SalamChristian]

Salaam,

Hi. I am a Christian who has several Muslim friends, and who has recently started reading the Qu'ran in order to reach out with peace, love, and understanding to my brothers who submit to Allah. I have read 12 suras now and some from the hadiths, and I have run into an interesting question regarding language. Here is my question:

the Arabic word "qataluh" looks very similar to the hebrew word "qelalah". I am wondering if there may be any connection?

I can give you a link to the Hebrew word if you need it. The forum won't allow me to post links yet, because I am new. But if you request it I will make sure I get the link to you.

Thank you very much for your consideration and thoughtfulness.

Salaam Alaikum,
Bob

[breezes]

wa alaikum
welcome to forum
I ask allah to make you steadfast on the path you have chosen . ameen
"qataluh" means : they kill hem -His soul has vanished- but I don't no what means"qelalah"
sorry ,I hope you to find the correct answer.
peace

[SalamChristian]

this is a very good answer. You say it means both "they kill him" and "his soul has vanished?"

[Woodrow]

The 5 Semitic languages Arabic, Syriac, Hebrew, Phoenician and Aramaic are dialects of the same language. The only argument is which of the existing ones are the true original language. All 5 of the languages share many of the same words and for the most part a speaker of anyone can understand the other 4. The Writing is a bit difficult as each has it's own Alphabet. But the letters essentially are equivalent to each other except in shape.

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[breezes]

Sorry I have to explain:
"qataluh" means they kill hem , ''qataluh''-In the language of the Arabs-
write like this :
قتلوه
murder;'al-qatal' ;the soul has vanished'

''ه''means: hem

[SalamChristian]

What does "hem" refer to? When I hear "hem," I read this to mean the thread on a piece of garment? I have also heard that "hem" in Hebrew means bread?

Thank you for your patience,
Bob

[SalamChristian]

I'm sorry that might sound confusing. It's just that I am wondering what it means to kill "hem." Does "hem" mean soul?

[Woodrow]

I'm sorry that might sound confusing. It's just that I am wondering what it means to kill "hem." Does "hem" mean soul?

I am quite certain the Sister intended to use the word HIM.

For many of our members English is their second or even 3rd/4th language and often words are spelled phonetically in the way it sounds to the writer.

قتلوه translates into English as "They Kill him"

[SalamChristian]

Of course. I cannot speak Arabic at all, and I am asking for help in the language, so I must commend the sister for her being much more proficient than I am. Thank you for your answers. May I ask, then, what is meant when you say "his soul vanishes" and "the soul has vanished?" Does qataluh mean both "they kill him" and also have something to do with the soul vanishing?

Thank you again for your patience,
Bob

[Woodrow]

Of course. I cannot speak Arabic at all, and I am asking for help in the language, so I must commend the sister for her being much more proficient than I am. Thank you for your answers. May I ask, then, what is meant when you say "his soul vanishes" and "the soul has vanished?" Does qataluh mean both "they kill him" and also have something to do with the soul vanishing?

Thank you again for your patience,
Bob

I am very poor in Arabic although I can read it reasonably well and carry on general conversations in the Darija dialect. But in my limited understanding I do not see the soul vanishing in the word qataluh. The soul (al-Ruh) and the Physical body in Islam are very similar to the concepts in mainstream Christianity however in Islam the Ruh and the body are more closely in the concept of being one unit.

[SalamChristian]

Thank you again. Here is a link to the Hebrew word "qelalah" which I think may be connected to "qataluh:"

strongsnumbers . com /hebrew/7045.htm

I had to put spaces in between because I am new and not allowed to post links. However, I did anyway because, as you can see, this is not an inappropriate link.

on this page you will see the word both in Hebrew and in English transliteration (sounding out).

Do you see any connection?

Salaam

[Woodrow]

Thank you again. Here is a link to the Hebrew word "qelalah" which I think may be connected to "qataluh:"

strongsnumbers . com /hebrew/7045.htm

I had to put spaces in between because I am new and not allowed to post links. However, I did anyway because, as you can see, this is not an inappropriate link.

on this page you will see the word both in Hebrew and in English transliteration (sounding out).

Do you see any connection?

Salaam

They seem to be from the same root. However the definitions may have changed over the years. The Hebrew קללה translated from Hebrew directly into the Arabic is لعنة

Which translates into English as "curse", which is the same as the Hebrew קללה translates into English.

It makes me suspect that the original word common to the original language, before Hebrew/Arabic became separate dialects was a specific curse wishing death upon a person.

[SalamChristian]

Thank you very much, Woodrow. Bless you for having helped me. I have been thinking the same as you, and it has been very difficult to express because I do not speak Arabic. This may seem like a small question, but it has very large implications for promoting peace between Islam and Christianity. I have been letting Allah guide me in studying the Qu'ran and how it relates to the Injeel, and submitting myself completely to his will, and I have discovered something very interesting:

In Christianity we study both the Taurat and the Injeel, and as Muhammad(pbuh) said, these were both the revealed Word of Allah (even though we pettily disputed over them, which I concede). Let me share with you a very important commandment in the Taurat:

"If someone is guilty of a capital offense, hang their body on a tree. You must not leave the body hanging on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse [qelalah eloihim]." (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

This is the only punishment in the entire Taurat and Injeel which brings God's curse, or in Hebrew "qelalah eloihim". In Arabic I would imagine the Jews would translate this as "qataluh allahi?" By "god's curse" I believe this means that someone hung on a tree is ****ed by God.

I find this is very important because as Mohammed (pbuh) recorded faithfully in Sura 4:157

"and they [the Jews] said in boast, qatalna almaseeha AAeesa"

as in "qataluh." If this means curse/****ation, as it probably meant to the Jews, then our holy books are in agreement.

In Christianity, we absolutely do not believe that Jesus was ****ed by God, as the Jews may have boasted. We believe the Jews were trying to curse Jesus (pbuh) "qelalah eloihim" by hanging him on the cross. There is testimony of this in the Injeel. However, we believe they failed, and ultimately Judas hung himself on a tree.

I believe Muhammad (pbuh) may also have been recording this in the Qu'ran, as it says "wama qataloohu . . . walakin shubbiha lahum." But it was made to appear to them so. This is exactly what we believe.

I am thinking that perhaps our holy books are actually in agreement on this point, and that our dispute over what happened to Jesus was not created by Allah, but by men and mistranslation.

Salaam,
Bob

[Woodrow]

Thank you very much, Woodrow. Bless you for having helped me. I have been thinking the same as you, and it has been very difficult to express because I do not speak Arabic. This may seem like a small question, but it has very large implications for promoting peace between Islam and Christianity. I have been letting Allah guide me in studying the Qu'ran and how it relates to the Injeel, and submitting myself completely to his will, and I have discovered something very interesting:

In Christianity we study both the Taurat and the Injeel, and as Muhammad(pbuh) said, these were both the revealed Word of Allah (even though we pettily disputed over them, which I concede). Let me share with you a very important commandment in the Taurat:

"If someone is guilty of a capital offense, hang their body on a tree. You must not leave the body hanging on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse [qelalah eloihim]." (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

This is the only punishment in the entire Taurat and Injeel which brings God's curse, or in Hebrew "qelalah eloihim". In Arabic I would imagine the Jews would translate this as "qataluh allahi?" By "god's curse" I believe this means that someone hung on a tree is ****ed by God.

I find this is very important because as Mohammed (pbuh) recorded faithfully in Sura 4:157

"and they [the Jews] said in boast, qatalna almaseeha AAeesa"

as in "qataluh." If this means curse/****ation, as it probably meant to the Jews, then our holy books are in agreement.

In Christianity, we absolutely do not believe that Jesus was ****ed by God, as the Jews may have boasted. We believe the Jews were trying to curse Jesus (pbuh) "qelalah eloihim" by hanging him on the cross. There is testimony of this in the Injeel. However, we believe they failed, and ultimately Judas hung himself on a tree.

I believe Muhammad (pbuh) may also have been recording this in the Qu'ran, as it says "wama qataloohu . . . walakin shubbiha lahum." But it was made to appear to them so. This is exactly what we believe.

I am thinking that perhaps our holy books are actually in agreement on this point, and that our dispute over what happened to Jesus was not created by Allah, but by men and mistranslation.

Salaam,
Bob

Peace Bob,

If I am correctly understanding you, we are very much in agreement. There should be no conflict between the True Tauret, Zaboor, Injil and Qur'an as each was/is the true word of Allaah(swt) when in it's original form. It is only the misunderstandings and perhaps at times deliberate alterations that changes occurred. Hebrew ceased to be a spoken language sometime before the book of Isaiah was written after that and all through the NT Aramaic was the language used. Hebrew did not again become a spoken language until 1947 and while it is somewhat based upon actual Hebrew it is not the Hebrew used by the OT Jews. When a language is changed, thoughts and concepts change with it, which is one of the reasons we stress for all Muslims to at least attempt to learn Arabic and for those who do know Arabic to strive to become Hafiz and memorize the Qur'an in the original Arabic. This is one of the safeguards that assures the Qur'an of today is the same as what Muhammad(PBUH) recited.

[abjad]

which is one of the reasons we stress for all Muslims to at least attempt to learn Arabic and for those who do know Arabic to strive to become Hafiz and memorize the Qur'an in the original Arabic. This is one of the safeguards that assures the Qur'an of today is the same as what Muhammad(PBUH) recited.

"Alhamd Li Laah Alaa Kul Haal"

thank you

[SalamChristian]

Would it not then be better to translate Sura 4:157 as:

"and because of their boasting: We ****ed the Messiah, Jesus (pbuh) . . . they ****ed him not"

?

the "qelalah" "qataluh" correlation and the commandment/prophecy of the Taurat I quoted above concerning hanging someone on a tree to bring upon them God's ****ation provide so much evidence to me that the real point in Sura 4:157 is about ****ation, not simply physical death. This difference in English words would do a great deal to promote peace and understanding between Western Christians and Islam, because our word for kill does not imply ****ation, whereas it seems "qataluh" does.

Salaam,
Bob

[abjad]

walakin shubbiha lahum." .

asalaam aleykum,

please be patient, and take your time(understanding my english)
Let us put that word "shubiha" lahum...shubiha.....
to nowadays we use some software with our new technology as Computer;
can any give a right name,,,some thing like...ghost...as....shabah...shubiha

[SalamChristian]

:~) I will be patient, brother. You say Sh-b-h is something like ghost in Arabic?

[Woodrow]

Would it not then be better to translate Sura 4:157 as:

"and because of their boasting: We ****ed the Messiah, Jesus (pbuh) . . . they ****ed him not"

?

the "qelalah" "qataluh" correlation and the commandment/prophecy of the Taurat I quoted above concerning hanging someone on a tree to bring upon them God's ****ation provide so much evidence to me that the real point in Sura 4:157 is about ****ation, not simply physical death. This difference in English words would do a great deal to promote peace and understanding between Western Christians and Islam, because our word for kill does not imply ****ation, whereas it seems "qataluh" does.

Salaam,
Bob

As we believe Jesus(as) did not die and was lifted to heaven alive and will return to complete his life the simple and direct concept of kill is more in agreement with the context. Arabic can be a bit strange. For many words there are a multitude of definitions and to understand what is meant you have to read almost the entire surat to grasp the context. This is one of those case were the root Qa-Ta-Luh قتلوه (Killed Him) is what was intended and is in agreement with the context of the Surat. to denote it specifiacally as meaning the soul has vanished it would have to be written as al-qa-tal. قتل without the وه

[abjad]

..shabah...shubiha

see sometimes see people say ...Yu shabih,,,so and so
like resembling...minor meaning to shabah..but nearly.

i dont know how i could explain but Let us take the likeness
of certain insects...called "saruukh' here at gcc countries small one like locust but short,
it keeps screaming sharp noises, and all at a sudden you hear it not, On the second day if you will go to that tree which u suspect those sharp screams comes from you will Most find "An empty bud" similar to that insect...and here we can take good example of wamakataluhi yakiina walakin shubiha lahum the real thing gone.

and if we go back to what knowledge we have been taught ages but now we explore (as humans of course)
...as i told u before i forget this software..its is like a high speed aircraft and instantly changed to boat cruising. (sorry i forgot it) i hope u can remember it.

once again ..the point we can communicate with each other all by means of reaching the truth Of Kuran Kareem.

thank you.

[abjad]

(4:157) and their saying: 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary', the Messenger of Allah *191 - whereas *192 in fact they had neither slain him nor crucified him but the matter was made dubious to them *193 - and those who differed about it too were in a state of doubt! They have no definite knowledge of it, but merely follow conjecture; *194 and they surely slew him not,

*191. Their criminal boldness had reached such proportions that they attempted to put an end to the life of the one they themselves knew to be a Prophet, and subsequently went around boasting of this achievement. The least reflection on the incident of Jesus talking in his cradle (see the preceding note) makes it clear that there was no strong reason to doubt his prophethood. Moreover, the miracles of Jesus which they themselves witnessed (see Surah Al 'Imran 3: 49) had firmly established his claim to prophethood. Thus, whatever treatment they meted out to him was not based on any misconception, for they were fully aware that the person whom they were subjecting to criminal treatment had been appointed by God as the bearer of His message. It seems strange that a people should recognize a man to be a Prophet in their hearts and still try to assassinate him. The ways of degenerate nations are indeed strange. Such people are absolutely unprepared to tolerate the existence of those who reproach them for their corruption and seek to prevent them from evil. Hence the reformers, including Prophets, who arise among corrupt nations are always persecuted; they are imprisoned and even put to death. The Talmud mentions that:
Nebuchadnezzar laid waste the land of Israel. . . when the city had been captured, he marched with his princes and officers into the Temple ... on one of the walls he found the mark of an arrow's head, as though somebody had been killed or hit nearby, and he asked: 'Who was killed here?' 'Zachariah, the son of Yohoyadah, the high priest', answered the people. 'He rebuked us incessantly on account of our transgressions, and we tired of his words, and put him to death.' (The Talmud Selections by H. Polano, London, Frederick Warne & Co.)
The Bible also mentions that when the corrupt practices of Israel exceeded all limits, and Jeremiah warned them that God would have them overrun by other nations in punishment for their wickedness, his warning was greeted by the Jews with the accusation that he was a collaborator with the Chaldeans and hence a traitor. And under that pretext Jeremiah was sent to prison. In the same manner, about two and a half years before Jesus' crucifixion, John the Baptist suffered a cruel fate. On the whole the Jews knew him to be a Prophet, or at least acknowledged him to be one of the most religious people in the nation. But when he criticized the royal court of Herod, the King of Judah, he was first thrown into prison, and then, in response to the demand of a dancing girl, who was Herod's favourite 'mistress', his head was cut off.
If this record of the Jews is kept in mind, it does not seem surprising that, after having subjected Jesus - according to their belief - to crucifixion, they might have been overcome by jubilation and in a fit of self-congratulation might have boastfully exclaimed: 'Yes, we have put a Prophet of God to death!' (For similar incidents see Towards Understanding the Qur'an, vol. I, Surah 2, n. 79 - Ed.)

*192. This again is a parenthetical statement.

*193. This verse categorically states that Jesus was raised on high before he could be crucified, and that the belief of both the Jews and the Christians that Jesus died on the cross is based on a misconception. As a result of a comparative study of the Qur'anic and Biblical versions we are persuaded that, so far as the trial at the court of Pilate is concerned, it was probably Jesus who was tried. Pilate sentenced him to death after the Jews showed their deep hostility to Truth and righteousness by openly declaring that, in their view, the life of a thief was of higher value than that of a man with such a pure soul as Jesus. It was then that God raised Jesus up to heaven. The person the Jews subsequently crucified was someone else who, for one reason or another, was mistaken for the person of Jesus. The fact that the person who had actually been crucified was someone other than Jesus does not in any way detract from the guilt of those Jews, for in their minds it was Jesus whose head they were crowning with thorns, in whose face they were spitting, and whom they were subjecting to crucifixion. We are not in a position now to find out how and why such a confusion arose. As no authentic source of information is available to us, it would be inappropriate to conjecture and speculate about the cause of the misapprehension which led the Jews to believe that they had crucified Jesus, the son of Mary, whereas he had already passed far beyond their grasp.
*194. "Those who differed' refers to the Christians. The Christians have dozens of different versions, rather than one universally agreed view, regarding the crucifixion of the Messiah. This in itself is an eloquent testimony that the Christians were doubtful about the actual event. Some of them held the view that the one who was crucified was someone other than-Jesus and that Jesus himself in fact remained standing somewhere nearby, laughing at their folly. Others were of the opinion that the one who was crucified was certainly Jesus himself, but that he did not die on the cross and was still alive when brought down from it. Others asserted that though Jesus died on the cross, he later returned to life, met his disciples and conversed with them about ten times. Again, some believe that the human body of Jesus suffered death and was buried, while the spirit of godhead in him was taken up on high. Yet others believe that after his death the Messiah was resurrected physically and was subsequently taken up to heaven in physical form. Had the truth been fully known and well-established so many divergent views could not have gained currency.


(4:158) but Allah raised him to Himself. *195 Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
*195. This is the truth revealed by God. What is categorically asserted here is merely that the Jews did not succeed in killing the Messiah, but that God raised him unto Himself. The Qur'an furnishes no detailed information about the actual form of this 'raising'. It neither states categorically that God raised him from the earthly sphere to some place in heaven in both body and soul, nor that his body died on earth and his soul alone was raised to heaven. Hence neither of the two alternatives can be definitely affirmed nor denied on the basis of the Qur'an. If one reflects on the Qur'anic version of the event one gets the impression that, whatever the actual form of this 'raising', the event was of an extraordinary character. This extraordinariness is evident from three things:
First, the Christians believed in the ascension of the Messiah in both body and soul, which was one of the reasons for large sections of people to believe in the godhead of Jesus. The Qur'an does not refute that idea but employs the same term, raf (i.e. 'ascension'), employed by the Christians. It is inconceivable that the Qur'an, which describes itself as the 'Clear Book', would employ an expression that might lend support to a misconception it seeks to repudiate.
Second, one might assume that either the ascension of the Messiah was of the kind that takes place at every person's death or that this 'ascension' meant merely the exaltation of a Prophet's position, like that of Idris: 'And We raised him to an exalted station' (Surah Maryam 19: 57). Had it been so, this idea would have been better expressed by a statement such as: And indeed they did not kill the Messiah; Allah delivered him from execution and caused him to die a natural death. The Jews had wanted to slight him but Allah granted him an exalted position.
Third, if this raf (exaltation, ascension) referred to in the verse: 'Allah raised him to Himself was of an ordinary kind, the statement which follows, namely that 'Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise', would seem altogether out of context. Such a statement is pertinent only in the context of an event which manifested, in a highly extraordinary manner, by the overwhelming power and wisdom of God.
The only Qur'anic argument that can be adduced to controvert this view is the verse in which the expression mutawaffika (see Surah Al 'Imran 3: 55) is employed. But as we have pointed out (see Towards Understanding the Qur'an, vol. I, Surah 3, n. 51), this word can denote either God's taking a man unto Himself in soul or taking him unto Himself in both body and soul. Arguments based on the mere use of this word are not enough to repudiate the arguments we have already adduced. Some of those who insist on the physical death of Jesus support their argument by pointing out that there is no other example of the use of the word tawaffa for God's taking unto Himself a man in body as well as in soul. But this argument is not tenable since the ascension of Jesus was a unique event in human history and, therefore, the quest for another example of the use of this term in the same context is meaningless. What is worth exploring is whether or not the use of the word in such a sense is valid according to Arabic usage. If it is, we will have to say that the choice of this particular word lends support to belief in the ascension of Jesus.
If we reflect on this verse in the light of the assumption that Jesus died physically, it appears strange that the Qur'an does not employ those terms which would exclude signifying the simultaneous physical and spiritual ascension of Jesus. On the contrary, the Qur'an prefers a term which, since it is liable to both interpretations (i.e. it can mean both spiritual and physical ascension), lends support to belief in the physical ascension of Jesus, even though that notion was used as a basis to support the false belief in the godhead of Jesus.
Belief in the physical ascension of Jesus is further reinforced by those numerous traditions which mention the return of Jesus, son of Mary, to the world and his struggle against the Anti-Christ before the end of time. (For these traditions see our appendix to Surah 33.) These traditions quite definitively establish the second coming of Jesus. Now it is for anybody to judge which is more reasonable: Jesus' return to this world after his death, or his being alive somewhere in God's universe, and returning to this world at some point in time?


http://www.tafheem.net/tafheem.html

[SalamChristian]

Is it not written:

"inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa"?

We must also take into account the commandment from the Taurat which I referenced earlier, which specifies that the only punishment which carries with it Allah's (swt) ****ation "qelalah eloihim" is hanging on a tree. In Islam I believe you have the concept Tafsir, which asks you to understand each Ayah of the Qu'ran in relation to the entire book and indeed the entire Word of God, right?

I agree that it would be much better if I could read the entire Ayah or even Sura or better yet the Qu'ran in Arabic.

We believe that Isa (pbuh) died, but was not ****ed by Allah (swt). We believe that Allah then resurrected Isa (pbuh) unto life, and then brought Isa (pbuh) up to him (tawaffa). We believe that Allah (swt), mighty and wise, put Jesus on the cross to demonstrate that even death is nothing to Allah (swt). We believe that Isa (pbuh) suffered temporary, physical death to show us that we should all be faithful and submissive to Allah's (swt) will, even unto death, because he will reward us after death, and death is nothing to him.

This is much like what the companion of Mohammed (pbuh) Abu Bakr said:

“O People! If Muhammad is the sole object of your adoration, then know that he is dead. But if it is Allah (The One God) you Worshiped, then know that He does not die.”

Salaam,
Bob

[abjad]

“O People! If Muhammad is the sole object of your adoration, then know that he is dead. But if it is Allah (The One God) you Worshiped, then know that He does not die.”

"Allah Akbar"

friends?
.................................

[SalamChristian]

Allahu Akbar wasalam alaikum. :~) Indeed there is peace for believers. As Isa (pbuh) says, as long as you believe there is only One God, love him unconditionally with all your heart, mind, strength, and spirit, and love mercifully all others unconditionally, then in that moment you are at peace with Allah (swt), and indeed with me. I attest that these are my beliefs, are they yours too?

[abjad]

(2:284) To Allah belongs whatever *333 is in the heavens and the earth. *334 " Allah will call you to account for what is in your minds whether you disclose it or hide *335 it. He, however, had full authority to pardon or punish anyone He pleases, for Allah has complete power over everything. *336

*333. These are the concluding observations on the subject. Just as this surah opened with an enunciation of the basic teachings of religion, so the fundamentals upon which Islam rests are reiterated in the concluding section of the surah, It is useful to go through the first section of this surah (see verses 1-5) while reading these concluding verses.

*334. This is the first fundamental principle of Islam. That God is the Sovereign of the heavens and the earth and all they contain, and that it is improper for man not to bend himself in obedience and service to God.

*335. This sentence mentions two other matters.
First, that man is individually responsible to, and answerable before, God.
Second, that the Lord of the heavens and the earth, before Whom man is answerable, is All-Knowing. Thus, nothing is concealed from Him, not even intentions and thoughts which lie hidden deep in the hearts and minds of people.

*336. This refers to God's absolute authority. He is not bound by laws framed by others which might limit Him to operating in a certain manner. He is an absolute sovereign and has the full power either to punish or pardon people.


آَمَنَ الرَّسُولُ بِمَا أُنْزِلَ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ رَبِّهِ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ كُلٌّ آَمَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلَائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْ رُسُلِهِ وَقَالُوا سَمِعْنَا وَأَطَعْنَا غُفْرَانَكَ رَبَّنَا وَإِلَيْكَ الْمَصِيرُ ﴿2:285﴾
(2:285) The Messenger has believed in the Guidance which has been sent down to him from his Lord, and those who believe in the
Messenger have also sincerely accepted the same. They all believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books and Messengers. And they say, "We do not discriminate against any of His Messengers. We have heard the Message and submitted to it. Our Lord, we look up to You for forgiveness, for to You we shall all return." *337

*337. This verse outlines what one is required to believe in and what should be the distinguishing characteristics of one's conduct. They consist of the following: belief in God, in His angels, in His Books, in all His Messengers (instead of some rather than others), and in the fact that ultimately one will have to stand before God's judgement. These are the five fundamental articles of faith in Islam. Having accepted them, the only proper attitude for a Muslim is to cheerfully accept and follow whatever directives he receives from God. Instead of exulting in his moral excellence he should be humble and should constantly seek God's forgiveness and mercy.
لَا يُكَلِّفُ اللَّهُ نَفْسًا إِلَّا وُسْعَهَا لَهَا مَا كَسَبَتْ وَعَلَيْهَا مَا اكْتَسَبَتْ رَبَّنَا لَا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلَا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلَا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لَا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلَانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ ﴿2:286﴾
(2:286) Allah does not burden any human being with a responsibility heavier than he can bear. *338 Everyone will enjoy the fruit of the good that one has earned and shall suffer for the evil that one has committed. *339 (O Believers, pray like this to Allah: "Our Lord, take us not to task if we forget and lapse into error inadvertently. Lord! lay not on us the kind of burdens that You had lain on the people before us. *340 Lord, lay not on us the kind of burden that we have not the strength to bear. *341 Be kind to us, forgive us and show mercy to us. You are our Protector : help us against the disbelievers." *342

*338. Man's answerability to God is limited by the extent of his ability. If a man does not have the ability to do a certain thing, God will not take him to task for not having performed it. In the same way, if it is really beyond a man's ability to abstain from something, God will not blame him for having failed to abstain from it. It should be noted here that man will not be the final judge as to whether he had the ability to do something or not. Such judgement will be made by God alone.
*339. This is the second fundamental principle of God's law of retribution. Every man will be rewarded for the services he has rendered, none will be rewarded for services rendered by others. The same applies to punishment. It is the one who is guilty who will be punished. It is possible, however, that if a man has initiated either good or bad practices, they will continue to affect people's lives. The resulting good and bad deeds of people will be reckoned either to their credit or against them, since they are clearly related to their efforts and actions. It is impossible, however, that a map should be either rewarded for an act of goodness or punished for an act of evil in which he has had no share - neither by intent nor practical action. The requital of acts is not transferable.
*340. The prayer made here is that God should not subject them to the severe tests and the terrible persecutions and hardships undergone by their predecessors. It is God's law that those who commit themselves to follow Truth and righteousness are subjected to severe tests and tribulations, and it is a believer's duty to meet them with patience and fortitude. At the same time, the believer should always pray that God may make it easy for him to follow the path of Truth and righteousness.
*341. Believers pray to God not to place unon them a burden beyond their capacity of endurance, and to subject them only to those tests from which they may emerge triumphant. May it not happen that the hardships are too much for them to bear, and that their feet falter and are turned away from the path of righteousness,
*342. In order to appreciate fully the spirit of this prayer, one should remember that these verses were revealed on the occasion of the ascension of the Prophet, a year before his migration to Madina. At that time the struggle between Islam and unbelief had reached its climax. Not only in Makka, but throughout the Arabian peninsula, there was no place where the lives of those who wished to follow the religion of God had not been made extremely difficult. In these circumstances the Muslims were told in what manner they ought to pray to their Lord. It is obvious that if the bestower himself tells one how to present one's request, the granting of the request becomes virtually assured. Hence, this prayer greatly strengthened the hearts of the Muslims. Moreover, this prayer implicitly taught the Muslims not to allow their feelings to flow along undesirable channels. They should instead mould them into a prayer to their Lord.
Think of the heart-rending cruelties to which the Muslims were subjected merely because of their devotion to Truth, and then turn to the contents of this prayer, where there is no trace of bitterness against the enemies. Consider the physical afflictions and material losses which the Muslims suffered, then note how this prayer does not contain the slightest hint of worldly ambition. Compare the wretchedness and misery of these devotees of Truth with the pure, exalted feelings with which this prayer is overflowing. This comparison will enable us to appreciate the nature of the spiritual and moral training provided to men of faith.

[abjad]

http://www.islamicboard.com/arabic/1...ml#post1416186

[SalamChristian]

Think of the heart-rending cruelties to which the Muslims were subjected merely because of their devotion to Truth, and then turn to the contents of this prayer, where there is no trace of bitterness against the enemies

I agree with everything said. To speak honestly from my heart, I have found much wisdom in the Qu'ran, but the problem of the rejection of the crucifixion is the biggest obstacle to the few things which I have reservations about.

But my question is this, does the quote which I quoted above mean that you believe a believer must love all others unconditionally, meaning to forgive them for their sins in their heart and not hold hatred to them, in order to find peace with God?

Salaam,
Bob

[Grace Seeker]

In Christianity, we absolutely do not believe that Jesus was ****ed by God, as the Jews may have boasted.

Though we do speak of Jesus as bearing the curse, that is the curse of sin and the law, and redeemed us from the curse "by becoming a curse for us" (Galatians 3:13).

[Insaanah]

^ So Christians believe that god incarnate was not only cursed, but actually was a curse himself?

Glory be to Allah the Exalted, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

No offence intended, but now, on top of the trinity, we have a cursed god? I guess Christians have always believed this but I have only learned this now...

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the noblest and purest of humanity, the messengers and prophets He sent to guide and warn mankind.

Peace.

[Grace Seeker]

^ So Christians believe that god incarnate was not only cursed, but actually was a curse himself?

Glory be to Allah the Exalted, this is the first I'm hearing of this.

No offence intended, but now, on top of the trinity, we have a cursed god? I guess Christians have always believed this but I have only learned this now...

May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the noblest and purest of humanity, the messengers and prophets He sent to guide and warn mankind.

Peace.

Insaanah, I know that this probably makes Christianity ever harder for you to understand. You wouldn't be the first. Jesus, Paul and Peter all spoke about how difficult these ideas would be for some to accept:

1 Peter 2

4 As you come to him [Jesus], the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”
8 and,
“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

But I would rather have you know what it is that we actually teach and believe and reject Christianity for those reasons, than to mistakenly reject it for some strawman concepts that we don't ourselves actually hold to. There are a couple of reasons that Jesus is spoken of as cursed:
1) Sin is something that itself brings about the curse of spiritual death, because Jesus is the one who bore the sins of humanity he then bore that curse as well.
2) The Tanakh says that cursed is anyone who hangs upon a tree (my paraphrase). The Jews understood that the sort of death Jesus suffered, that of being hung on a cross, was equivalent to what that verse said.

Interestingly, the scriptures also speak of Jesus as overcoming this curse. When Paul writes about the eventual resurrection of the dead in the eschaton, he speaks of that resurrection which we will participate in as having been won for us by Christ's own resurrection which cancelled the power of sin to lay claim to us any longer:

1 Corinthains 15

“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[SalamChristian]

Yes, Jesus (pbuh) overcame this curse. He was a curse to the slanderers of God, not to us. Also, he was cursed by men, but the curses of men mean nothing to Allah (swt). Here is a quote from one of the psalms recognized as speaking about Jesus (pbuh) and Judas.

"He loved to pronounce a curse, may it come back on him." and "Help me, LORD my God; save me according to your unfailing love. Let them know that it is your hand, that you, LORD, have done it. While they curse, may you bless; may those who attack me be put to shame, but may your servant rejoice. May my accusers be clothed with disgrace and wrapped in shame as in a cloak."

If you would like to see where this is recognized as speaking about Jesus (pbuh) and Judas, check out Acts 1:20.

[SalamChristian]

Also, be careful when you conclude that we think Jesus was cursed by God. Jesus was not hung on a tree, he was hung on a cross. There is an important difference. When I think of this I think of your parable of the good tree and the evil tree uprooted in the Qu'ran:

"See you not how Allah sets forth a parable? - A goodly word as a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the sky." and "The parable of an evil word is that of an evil tree uprooted from the surface of earth having no stability."

God is very clearly to make a distinction between the cross and the tree of ****ation. The cross is referred in II Samuel 7 as a "be-she-vet" in Hebrew--a staff or stick of men. This is not the same as the word "etz," or tree used to describe the punishment. Again, this emphasizes that it was the Jews who were trying to curse God, and even all men who rejected him, but not God who was doing the cursing. This emphasizes how Jesus (pbuh) took on our sin, because as the world rejected him, they were essentially asking for his death, even though he brought them eternal life and a message of love and salvation.

Salaam,
Bob

[abjad]

and not hold hatred to them, in order to find peace with God?

shalom;

one thing i would like to hear from you-How could you explain to me the word hate
but i would to give you an existed example known or if i may say world wide seen and or witnessed.

"At the United Nations conference" soon Ahmed Najat(President of the Islamic Republic of Iran) stands up and speaks with courage; have u observed whom WALKED AWAY?

tell me Why? Is it because Nejat wants to rise his first baby foot...while they have Elephant Ones; Nejat wants to be ready for any aggression; while they have not for example but you know Hiroshima for sure you are; IF THAT IS JUST TO PROTEST i totally disagree with that but the fact is HATERAGE because an Islamic country trying to take "baby's step for the future generations"

well let me not be the only one trying to give alive example let us wait and others what their respond.

....i will not hesitate to state that....am still learning...