Religion and Fantasy

I have been thinking...sometimes when you learn stories from the Qur'an or even the Bible, did you ever doubt their authenticity? For example, Angels, Jinns, etc. I admit I did not take them seriously when I was agnostic; I used to find them amusing. I associated them with fantasy stories and movies.

At the time I did not understood why I used to do that until now. I suspect many writers and film makers get their ideas from religion. These people get ideas from religious, cultural and historical sources and create fiction out of them. So when you read books or watch movies or play computer games based on fantasy, you know that it is not true but you then start to associate with your own religious beliefs...

I will use my example again. None of us know what an angel looks like but in movies, books or computer games, angels look like humans with big white wings. So could this have an affect on people that view Islam or Christianity when it talks about angels?

Has anyone else experience what I've written? Is this why many people do not take religion seriously because they start to associate fictional stories to religious stories?

Share your views...

Guestfellow said:

when you learn stories from the Qur'an or even the Bible, did you ever doubt their authenticity? For example, Angels, Jinns, etc

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Yeah I understand what you mean. The Buraq thing is still something I can't completly say I believe in. Plus from some of the posts on this site as soon as someone hears a bump in the night they blame it on a jinn. I have sleep paralysis but I have never thought that it might be a jinn.

Guestfellow said:

Has anyone else experience what I've written? Is this why many people do not take religion seriously because they start to associate fictional stories to religious stories?

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I think some people stop believing in christianity because of santa claus. If your told a fat man delivers presents all around the world with the help of magic deer and are later told he is not real Its hard to believe a jewish carpenter that cast out demons and healed the sick.

LavaDog said:

I think some people stop believing in christianity because of santa claus. If your told a fat man delivers presents all around the world with the help of magic deer and are later told he is not real

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Well this proves my point. Santa is a fictional character associated with Christmas and Christmas is part of Christianity. I highly doubt Santa is mentioned anywhere in the Bible. So some people associated a fictional character with religion, when really both have nothing to do with each other.

wa alaykum us-Salaam
No, becuase one who has firm belief in Allah, will not see the angels and matters of the unseen, etc as fantasy or even associate such with them. we take our lessons from the stories of the Prophets, we understand our beliefs better by knowing what the characteristics about the angels are, etc. So, if anything, it takes one from fantasy to reality.

perhaps someone who has received misinformation about these types of matters, may associate such things with fantasy. that's a possibility. other than that, i dont think so.

Ummu Sufyaan said:

wa alaykum us-Salaam
No, becuase one who has firm belief in Allah, will not see the angels and matters of the unseen, etc as fantasy or even associate such with them. we take our lessons from the stories of the Prophets, we understand our beliefs better by knowing what the characteristics about the angels are, etc. So, if anything, it takes one from fantasy to reality.

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Yes, I agree that a Muslim that has a firm belief in Allah will never associate Islamic beliefs with fictional ideas.

It is not just Muslims that this topic is concerned with. I'm trying to find an explanation to why some Atheists cannot take religious ideas seriously and I think they are associating fictional ideas with religious themes.

perhaps someone who has received misinformation about these types of matters, may associate such things with fantasy. that's a possibility. other than that, i dont think so.

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I think some Muslims do it unintentionally. They may have watched a movie or read a book based on fantasy and then start learning about Islam. When they learn about Angels or Jinns, they may not take them seriously because these beliefs have been distorted by the media.

I think this is one of the reasons why some scholars prohibit drawing pictures of human and animals. People may, unintentionally, have a distorted view of religious beliefs based upon fictional characters...

'if the mind is over-simulated with the unnatural....the natural has no effect'

Guestfellow said:

At the time I did not understood why I used to do that until now. I suspect many writers and film makers get their ideas from religion. These people get ideas from religious, cultural and historical sources and create fiction out of them. So when you read books or watch movies or play computer games based on fantasy, you know that it is not true but you then start to associate with your own religious beliefs...

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I think that has to be true. Ideas have to come from somewhere, either directly or indirectly, and where else but from your own - or other peoples' that you have studied - cultural and religious backgrounds, and associated mythologies. Tolkien, for example, stressed the point that his primary influences were Nordic and Celtic myths and was forever denying that LotR was the deliberate analogy of the situation in Europe during and immediately after WW2 most reviewers claimed it was. Major Indian works such as the Ramayana and Mahabarata are themselves religious works as much as stories (and vice versa). Chinese classics like Wu Cheng'en's 'Journey to the West' and Shi Naian's 'Outlaws of the Marsh' (better known in the West as 'Monkey' and 'The Water Margin', respectively) are hugely influenced by not just religion but religions, Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism and mythologies linked with the former in particular. And so on.

The Bible, in particular, is itself also full of stories rather than history. I don't mean by 'stories' to imply they are necessarily untrue or exaggerated, but they are clearly designed to be presented as stories to what would originally have been listeners rather than readers in order keep their attention long enough to get their particular message across. The parables of Jesus are simply a rather more focussed version of the same approach.

Ummu Sufyaan said:

wa alaykum us-Salaam
No, becuase one who has firm belief in Allah, will not see the angels and matters of the unseen, etc as fantasy or even associate such with them. we take our lessons from the stories of the Prophets, we understand our beliefs better by knowing what the characteristics about the angels are, etc. So, if anything, it takes one from fantasy to reality.

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I concur. Angels, jinns etc. are part of our belief in the unseen. Our beliefs, knowledge and the way we "see" them are based on what we've been informed in the Qur'aan and Ahaadeeth.

Guestfellow said:

I'm trying to find an explanation to why some Atheists cannot take religious ideas seriously and I think they are associating fictional ideas with religious themes.

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Plain and simple snootiness, of course. Mostly it's just something they use to mock religion, as they have since the dawn of history

When our signs are recited to him, he says, "Fairy-tales of the ancients!" No indeed; but that they were earning has rusted upon their hearts. (Koran 83:13-14, Arberry)

Their minds are self-trained to automatically label anything even remotely supernatural as "superstition". Claims of things validating religion or religious stories have their own haughty jargon response dependent entirely on whether the insult is face-to-face or not: if they're talking to a person who claims to have had a religious experience or to have seen an angel or etc. then the magic, all-excusing term is "anecdotal evidence", as though they were hearing someone use a story for deductive reasons in a formal debate or something. You'll notice the one and only difference between something just being that "anecdotal evidence" they can automatically dismiss without a second thought is whether or not it is happened to their own selves, in which case, whether or not they believe in their experience, suddenly the phrase stops being used. If it is a complete third-party stranger or theoretical case then the dismissive jargon switches to "magical thinking", claims of hallucination or dishonesty in a person whose mind and "thinking" they still know nothing about, or of course "superstition". Atheists are nothing without their pet words, or at least their arguments aren't. They've invested far too much in them.

In short, they compare God to Santa Claus and to invisible pink unicorns for two simple reasons: (1) because they get their kicks out of making fun of us poor stupid crazy believers. (2) Because in addition to being childish enough to make a preschooler's analogies in the first place they also think that one genuinely is no more realistic than the other and that by showing us the comparison we might somehow see the light. "Oh I get it now! God is just like a flying spaghetti monster!"

If it helps you believe the stories then bear in mind that they vary just enough from both "canonical" and non-"canonical" Christian, Jewish, and folkloric stories that they overlap with, and in just the right ways, to be indicative of being the real truth. Also that they go against the way that the development of mythology works by being less exaggerated and closer to known secular fact than the earlier versions, indicating that they're not mythology at all because it's backwards from the way myth works. This is difficult to summarize clearly and I've probably already lost you. I go into more detail on the subject here and here.

Yes, I agree that a Muslim that has a firm belief in Allah will never associate Islamic beliefs with fictional ideas.

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then why would such genre be a cause of confusion for Muslims?

It is not just Muslims that this topic is concerned with. I'm trying to find an explanation to why some Atheists cannot take religious ideas seriously and I think they are associating fictional ideas with religious themes.

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i see. well, its probably best you ask atheists that then...:hmm:

I think some Muslims do it unintentionally. They may have watched a movie or read a book based on fantasy and then start learning about Islam. When they learn about Angels or Jinns, they may not take them seriously because these beliefs have been distorted by the media.

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again, i dont think this should be a cause for confusion. if ones belief was firm in Allah, then they would immediately disregard what is not true.

I think this is one of the reasons why some scholars prohibit drawing pictures of human and animals. People may, unintentionally, have a distorted view of religious beliefs based upon fictional characters...

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i see. do you have some evidence for that? i have never heard of this.

Ummu Sufyaan said:

then why would such genre be a cause of confusion for Muslims?

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Some Muslims do not have such firm beliefs.

i see. well, its probably best you ask atheists that then...:hmm:

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Which is why I created this topic. =)

again, i dont think this should be a cause for confusion. if ones belief was firm in Allah, then they would immediately disregard what is not true.

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Not all Muslims have a firm belief in Allah. Some have doubts.

i see. do you have some evidence for that? i have never heard of this.

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I should make myself clear. Some scholars say drawing pictures is not permissible:

What is the ruling on drawing in Islam?.

I'm saying one of the reasons why drawing pictures is not permissible because people may, unintentionally, have a distorted view of religious beliefs based upon fictional characters...

^ I'm just purely speculating.

Some Muslims do not have such firm beliefs.

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so its not due to the religions set of beliefs, but the person themselves? is that what you are saying.

Which is why I created this topic. =)

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ok then.

Not all Muslims have a firm belief in Allah. Some have doubts.

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see above.

I should make myself clear. Some scholars say drawing pictures is not permissible:

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did it confirm that in the fatwa though? i mean the reason why you think that drawing is not permissible.

I'm saying one of the reasons why drawing pictures is not permissible because people may, unintentionally, have a distorted view of religious beliefs based upon fictional characters...
^ I'm just purely speculating.

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Ummu Sufyaan said:

so its not due to the religions set of beliefs, but the person themselves? is that what you are saying.

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Yes.

did it confirm that in the fatwa though? i mean the reason why you think that drawing is not permissible.

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No it did not confirm it. I think may be one of the reasons why drawing is not permissible.

Yes.

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alhamdulillah. i rest my case: There is no reason that Islam should be mixed and confused with fantasy (as per going by original post) and if there is any confusion, then it is due to the persons own (personal not-so-in-line-with-the-truth) beliefs. That is, it does not make any difference to the authenticity of Islam...the authenticity of Islam remaining pure, despite by what and how the minds may be affected...therefore Islam is well and far removed from fantasy.

have been thinking...sometimes when you learn stories from the Qur'an or even the Bible, did you ever doubt their authenticity? For example, Angels, Jinns, etc. I admit I did not take them seriously when I was agnostic; I used to find them amusing. I associated them with fantasy stories and movies.

I have read the Bible, Torah and the Quran. I never questioned the Quran, and found the other two scriptures to be boring and contradictory. As of now, I'm following a very interesting true storyline on a blog of a woman who has under gone what you have listed as a part of your question, so perhaps, at the end of the storyline, I'll be able to fully answer your question.

At the time I did not understood why I used to do that until now. I suspect many writers and film makers get their ideas from religion. These people get ideas from religious, cultural and historical sources and create fiction out of them. So when you read books or watch movies or play computer games based on fantasy, you know that it is not true but you then start to associate with your own religious beliefs...

You're right, they do get many of their ideas through religion, but only those people get confused who don't know the religion they follow and have adapted a belief system through cultural beliefs. The best part of religion is when you kept an open mind and did all the research on your own to have a true understanding of what you believe; I know it's been rewarding for me because that's what I've done.

I will use my example again. None of us know what an angel looks like but in movies, books or computer games, angels look like humans with big white wings. So could this have an affect on people that view Islam or Christianity when it talks about angels?

True, again, going back to me, loving inspirational stories, the blog I'm following has been very rewarding for me; because I get to see the world of angels, Jinns, Satan, Demons from the writer's true experiences. Her struggles has become a learning experience for me.

Has anyone else experience what I've written? Is this why many people do not take religion seriously because they start to associate fictional stories to religious stories?

Not really, I believe many people who are in confusion is because they love their surroundings (which is everything but the truth), so to them God becomes part of their belief instead of them becoming a part of His teachings.

I think this is one of the reasons why some scholars prohibit drawing pictures of human and animals. People may, unintentionally, have a distorted view of religious beliefs based upon fictional characters...

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This is why drawing is prohibited.
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/riyad/17/chap305.htm