(The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide show

[brmm]

Bism Allah Al-Rahman Al-Rahim

Brothers/Sisters & Dear readers,
Alhamdolillah many many times, I have just finished a study (130 pages)about Christianity, Jesus, Trinity & God.

I have tried my best to collect the right information and put them in a reasonable way.
And I am asking my Great God, Allah Sobhanaho, to forgive me inshallah for any mistake that I have made without knowing or because of the shortage in my knowledge.

Brothers/Sisters:
Please download this material to your PCs and be sure to forward it to your friends.
Please take the time to read it because it has a lot of good and new information.
Please support me with your kind comments after reading the material.
Please if you can translate this material to another languages, specially the Spanish, please do that.

The link is below, PDF file of 7.9 Mb.
4shared.com/document/OBA20Hqu/The_Truth.html


Jazakom Allah Khayr inshallah.

Walhamdolillah Rabbi Alalameen

BRMM

=======================================

You can find the material on Y tube also, with some differences.The one in the download link is better.

I wish to hear your kind feedback about the material.

It is a slide show (power point) in PDF format with active links. Very easy to read.

youtube.com/watch?v=T8FtRXuTlqs

[Amigo]

I will go through it more later...
But so far I would like to congratulate you for the work and openness I saw so far. You seem sincere...

[Amigo]

I just went through it.
You are right, Jesus is not a god.

I don't know about every Christians, but most of them, including me, say that they believe one God.
I am yet to meet a Christian who say that they believe in three gods.


A woman does not create. She reveals what is hidden by her mothering someone. So she can reveal the invisible God if God choose to reveal Himself in the human nature.

God does not speak with human syllables. These are temporal proper to creatures not to eternity.
The eternal language of God is truth, and from eternity, God speaks only one Word, for God is not in time that He may speak successive words/sounds/voices...like creatures who are time-bound.
Prophets are people who interpret/translate divine language to human language; eternal language to temporal language.
Good interpretors are called true prophets
False interpretors are called false prophets
All the words of the Bible are all the one Word written down in the temporal world, in various spaces and times.
But the Christian religion is not a religion of a Book, but a religion of the Word.

Good luck in your investigation of Christianity

[Ramadhan]

You are right, Jesus is not a god.

You must be the only catholic I know that thinks Jesus is not god. I have a sense that this is just another one of those famous christians' new-found meaning for words or words gymnastic, but I'll bite anyway:

so if Jesus is not a god, what is he?

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

[brmm]

I just went through it.
You are right, Jesus is not a god.

Dear Amigo, Thank you for having the time reading my material.
You said "You are right, Jesus is not a god", this is a very good start if you mean it straight forward. What I mean by this is that, I was chatting with un-known Christian on Ytube and he said to me that: We do not believe that Jesus is a god, he was a man, (BUT) God told us in the Bible to worship him !
Q1: Do u worship God & Jesus or only God?
Q2: The god you believe in is 3 or 1 entity (personality)?

A woman does not create. She reveals what is hidden by her mothering someone. So she can reveal the invisible God if God choose to reveal Himself in the human nature.

God does not speak with human syllables. These are temporal proper to creatures not to eternity.
The eternal language of God is truth, and from eternity, God speaks only one Word, for God is not in time that He may speak successive words/sounds/voices...like creatures who are time-bound.
Prophets are people who interpret/translate divine language to human language; eternal language to temporal language.

Please can you clarify more these 2 paragraphs so I will not miss-understand you.
You have used nice words (BUT) religion should be simple to be understood.

Good interpretors are called true prophets
False interpretors are called false prophets

OK, I have heard this from a friend Christian when I asked him about our prophet Mohammed. He said the same thing.
I don't agree.
The prophet does not choose himself, he is chosen by God. So God have no false prophets. Thats why the most bloody disbelievers people in the history, like Kinf Namroud at the time of prophet Ibrahim in Ninava (Iraq) and the Pharaohs of Egypt, they did not say "We are God's prophets", instead they said to their people "worship us".

This sentence is said by the Christian Monks to the Christian when they asked them about Mohammed.
If you read only the history, you will know Mohammed was not a false prophet.

One day, I have heard about a sister converted to Islam when she was reading about Mohammed. She read the sentence when Mohammed asked his followers after the second war not to be around him, because God said to him in the Quran, that I will protect you from all the people.
She said, this sister, if Mohammed was a lier and he could lie to all his followers, he should not lie to himself ! and thats mean he was a truthful man.

Pls can you give me some evidence that Mohammed was a false prophet?

Good luck in your investigation of Christianity

You did not tell me any way, what is wrong in my material ?

Last question for now: I guess your native language is English, Spanish, some language with Latin letters, my Q is: pls can you tell me what is the name of the God you worship in your Bible?

Waiting for your kind reply.

Have a nice day Amigo.

BRMM

[Amigo]

You must be the only catholic I know that thinks Jesus is not god. I have a sense that this is just another one of those famous christians' new-found meaning for words or words gymnastic, but I'll bite anyway:

so if Jesus is not a god, what is he?

Jesus is not a god. Jesus is God.

[Amigo]

Hello Brmm

About your video, I don't know how to give you a feedback. You are right in several points but you are wrong in the whole message.
The reason is because you are wrong about what you think Christianity is. So you are addressing a wrong target to begin with.
If you need to address Christinity, I think you have to do more homework. Have you ever read The City of God by St. Augustine? It is a large work but you can read his commentaries on the Bible. He made commentaries on all most books of the OT and NT. Or to make the work easy, try out a Christian Encyclopedia and see what Christians actually believe.
If you look up a catholic encyclopedia for instance, you will find what the biggest majority of Christians believe because most are catholics.

Once you know what Christian actually believe, then it should be easy to make a better criticism/evaluation of the Christian Faith.

[brmm]

Dear Amigo,
You did not answer most of my questions ! WHY ?
I assume that you know Christianity better than me, so WHY you do not defend your belief with proofs as I did ?

I guess u have said Jesus is not a god a and now u have changed ur mind?
a god & GOD is the same meaning in our dialog, which is the one who can create life from death. Do not tell me there is a false god.

You know one day, I was listening to some debate between a Muslim and Christian scholars.
The Christian one said: why I should believe the Quran [when the Quran is talking about the truth of Jesus as a messenger] which had been sent more than 600 years after Jesus and not believe the gospels who had been written after Jesus's life by few decades? Does that make any sense?

The answer is very simple, The Quran is from God. Can God make a mistake ?!

Religion is about both faith and proofs, not faith only.

Jesus said to you in your Bible, I am a prophet, I pray for my God, God is ONE, and Jesus called His God "Allah" in Aramaic.


I will attach some videos also:
1st video : Jesus was not a god in old gospels and according to his family.
2nd video: Jesus's called his god "ALLAH".
3rd video : Old Samaritans, the real followers of Jesus, are praying like Muslims. Accept Mohammed as a prophet, and do not use the Cross.
4th video :Old Coptic Christian are praying like Muslims.
5th video :Real Jewish man prays like Muslims.

youtube.com/watch?v=x3WhGccOKsE&feature=player_embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=BTSG0YzlGB8&feature=player_embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8JguEffCA&feature=player_embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFeldPG3Y&feature=player_embedded
youtube.com/watch?v=0aHWASyMjwg&feature=player_embedded

BRMM

[Amigo]

To Brmm

About God:

His name is: 'I Am Who Am'
A name gives a hint of someone's identity/character/etc...

God is
Only God is
Only God exist

What happens to us, is inheritance.
But God's generosity, we inherit existance by the fact of being created.
This means that God creates us to shower us with gifts from Himself.

Yet, God did not learn generosity with the help of any creature.
No creature can boast that if God had not created it, He would not have learned to be generous.
God does not learn anything. God is self-sufficient.
God is generous from all eternity, even before creating any creature
For God is love; one but not solitary.

I will stop here for now

About prophets; do you believe that anyone who says that he is a prophet is sent by God?
There are many men who says they are/were prophets, and yet they fight each other, do you think God is conflicted in himself? If they are all really sent by God why would they disagree? So in Christianity we have notions of true and false prophets. False prophets are not necessarly people who intend to lie, even though most often actually they do, for most believe that lying can be okay sometimes. Since prophecy is a matter of truth telling, approving of lie is sign of false prophecy. For God is truth itself. Nothing can conquer the truth, true prophecy preaches faith in the truth always without fail. This is how I tell it is from God.

[Amigo]

I am sorry brother for taking a little long, but I am trying to answer you.
Before I continue I wish to point out that:
'a god' and 'God' is not the same thing in the Christian Faith.

I also like answer the key points and the full message without picking small parts. I find that takes easly out of context.

God bless

[Ramadhan]

Jesus is not a god. Jesus is God.

so Jesus IS god.

Now, when Jesus (aka god) died, who ran the universe?

[brmm]

Hi Amego,
Thank u for ur replies.

Let us talk frankly:
I AM WHO I AM / I AM THAT I AM / I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE /I WILL BE BECAUSE I WILL BE / ...ETC with different translations.

- Can this be a name for an individual personality and so great like "GOD" ?!
Answer is not:
* Can any one say "I am a god" ? Answer is NO.
* Can any one say "I am GOD" ? Answer is NO.
* Can any one say "I am Allah" ? Answer is NO.
* Can any one say "I am who I am" ? Answer is YES.

The Hebrew text from the Torah can be read as " ehyeh asher ehyeh". My question for u: can we translate names ? Do u have a different name when u travel just outside ur country ?!

Do you wish to tell me that our great God have sent two of his considerable messengers, Moses & Jesus, with two revlead books, The Torah & The Gospel, and he have mentioned HIS name in HIS books only ONE TIME ?

You mean God never mentioned his name in the Gospel ? A book from God but does not have the name of God.

I think you know that the Jewish never read the name of God in the Torah because of their false understanding for the Torah and in many places they have put the letters YHVH without vowels, as a result they never knew what is the name of GOD with time.
Exod 20:07 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."

Another thing:
I think Paul was talking and saying:
"09For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me" 1Cor 15:09-10

Does that mean God & Paul has the same name ?

The name of "ALLAH" has been mentioned 2699 time in the Holy Quran. If u asked any 6 years old Muslim child in any country or language: Who is ur god? Answer will come "ALLAH".

Amigo please ...I still need an answer for my question: What is the name of the god you worship in your Bible ? And how many times mentioned in the Torah and in the Gospel.

This is the first question for any worshiper: "what is the name of your god?"

Have a nice day.

BRMM

[Amigo]

Hi BRMM

Please read carefully.

'I AM WHO AM' is not 'I AM WHO I AM'

'Allah' is the Arabic word for 'God', just as 'God' is the English word for 'Allah'
This is not a name but a designation
Having said this, you can count yourself how many times the word 'God' is mentioned in OT and NT.

Please take time to ready carefully and address what is actually written instead of addressing what is in your head. I am not what you imagine me to be, and you don't decide for me what thoughts are in me. If you don't understand, be frank as you suggested yourself, don't assume because it is only against yourself that you assume.

This way we will talk frankly.

[brmm]

Hi Amego,

Please can u tell me the verses in the Bible where I can find "I AM WHO AM" ?

Allah's name can not be translated in any language. The one who did so in some translations for the Quran, have made a mistake, therefore other translations corrected this mistake and used ALLAH even in the English or Latin ones.

What do u mean by designation not a name? You mean it is just a title or man made name for God ?

BRMM

[brmm]

I am sorry, Amigo not Amego.

BRMM

[Amigo]

I can show you were they are written, but would you believe it, don't you guys believe that the Bible is corrupt?
Where, read the story of Moses being sent by God to free the childreen of Israel from Egypt. You can also look in the Bible where Jesus used the words while trying to explain to the Jews that before Abraham was, He is.

About the word 'Allah'. Well, it is arabic, and arabic is a derivation from Hebrew language. Since no language can be perfectly translated into an other, I agree that 'Allah' would not mean perfectly the same thing as 'God'. But this has something to do with people's mentality and grammar, not words.
The important thing is to grasp what is in the name.

Yes, a name is not the same as a designation.
'god' designate that which is worshiped.
'I Am' reveals a particular being and something of his essence and purpose.
Deeper still, a name reveals the character of that which is named.

Generally no man can name the true God, but only the gods he made himself.
Because God is only known to himself and to those He reveals himself to, it is God who reveals his name to his friends.
This means that even searching book and picking up a name or names for God, does not guarantee knowing God's name.
Knowing God's name is more profound than knowing a word or asking it to a friend.

When you are sincere in your heart and sincerly looking and searching to know God, God reveals himself to you his name and you realise that no words can contain it, no human language can contain it.

Meanwhile, men use particular designations so that other men can have an idea of what they are talking about.
When it comes to calling on the name of God, calling God by his name, this is beyond words.

[brmm]

Hi Amigo,
Everyone is reading this not only me, and I am also learning from you, so pls can u write to me the numbers of the verses from the Bible (From OT & NT) where I can read "I AM WHO AM" ?

BRMM

[Ramadhan]

About the word 'Allah'. Well, it is arabic, and arabic is a derivation from Hebrew language.

Arabic is not derivation of hebrew. Arabic is in the same language of hebrew, which is semitic, but arabic is actually older than hebrew.

Amigo, I have noticed that you made so many statements which are not true, even you are saying that Allah is generic word for "god", even when you don't speak arabic yourself.

[Ramadhan]

Also Amigo, you have not answered my question, I am afraid.

You said Jesus is God, not a god.

Now, when Jesus (God) dies, who ran the universe?

[Ramadhan]

arabic is a derivation from Hebrew language

Wrong. Although they are in the same semitic language, arabic is older than hebrew.

Watch this:



and read these:

http://www.arabic-language.org/arabic/history.asp
http://theislam4all.com/the_rise_of_islam.html
http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ISLAM/ARABIYYA.HTM
http://www.alsintl.com/resources/languages/Arabic/
http://www.arab.de/arabinfo/larabic.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35520878/Semitic-Languages
http://www.communicaid.com/language-...c-language.php
Here's a good book to read on semitic languages: http://www.amazon.com/Semitic-Langua.../dp/0415057671
http://grzegorj.w.interia.pl/lingwen/iesem1.html
http://phoenicia.org/semlang.html

[brmm]

Hi Amigo:

The important thing is to grasp what is in the name.

Sorry, I don't agree. God's name is the most important piece of information in His books. If it was missing then, 100% for sure, there is something wrong.


Generally no man can name the true God, but only the gods he made himself.

For sure not, thats why our God said to us: my name in my book is "ALLAH", so His worshipers will not make any mistake, and we(the Muslims) said to our god, Yes Lord. Very simple & straight forward without any designation or confusion.


Because God is only known to himself and to those He reveals himself to, it is God who reveals his name to his friends.
This means that even searching book and picking up a name or names for God, does not guarantee knowing God's name.

God's books guarantee 1000000000000000000000000000 % that you should know His name frankly.
Our God has Friends !!! Is this written in your Bible ? Friends usually means the one who , in general, are equivalent to us in many ways.Are you worshiping a god who has many equivalents ? ..... I think, you do. You worship Jesus & Jesus has many brothers equivalent to him, like Mohammed and Moses.

Knowing God's name is more profound than knowing a word or asking it to a friend.

It is so easy in Islam. I told you before, a six years old Muslim child, maybe even younger, knows Allah's name.

When you are sincere in your heart and sincerly looking and searching to know God, God reveals himself to you his name and you realise that no words can contain it, no human language can contain it.

I agree if you mean the ability of God, but I dis-agree about knowing the name.

Meanwhile, men use particular designations so that other men can have an idea of what they are talking about.

Not in Islam. We do not believe in this. Allah have told us, this is my name and these are my 99 attributes.

When it comes to calling on the name of God, calling God by his name, this is beyond words.

We call ALLAH with His great name, and with His attributes. We do not have any assumptions or innovations since the time of Mohammed.

And I am still waiting to answer my questions.

Have a nice day.

BRMM

[Amigo]

Hello brothers and sisters

Sorry I couldn't have enought time to keep up with all these replies. Please be patient with me.
Also, just as I read as I write. I understand that particular message can not be fit into one word or sentence, so I send a message in many words just as I try to read the core message in many words you guys are sending. I would not be able to keep up with answering every single criticism of a lone sentence or word plucked out of context of the paragraph or the full message I had placed it in.
Also, I don't reply to mocking, if a question is asked in a mocking tone, I will skip it to get to the more human ones to save time.

Now, i will start giving the asked replies in the following messages.

God bless

[Amigo]

Hi Amigo,
Everyone is reading this not only me, and I am also learning from you, so pls can u write to me the numbers of the verses from the Bible (From OT & NT) where I can read "I AM WHO AM" ?

BRMM

Brother you are asking me to start quoting verses. Here I have to make some clarifications before I quote anything.
1. I am Catholic not Protestant. This makes a huge difference in how we consider the Bible.
2. Most Protestants consider the Bible almost the same way Muslims consider the Koran. Whey they believe that the Bible is the world of God, they mean that every single word, and comma, and exclamation mark is from God.
3. Catholics believe that the Bible is the written Word of God, not words of God but Word of God. I hope you sense the difference. It is also important to notice that 'written' word I underlined. Written means that the (living) Word of God was written (translated into human language on papers) by imperfect human hands, imperfect human languages, in imperfect human contexts. All these have to be considered in order to understand what God means through the Bible. For more information you can check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church on Sacred Scripture.
4. As a Catholic, I don't consider Christianity a religion of 'the Book' (dead letters compiled together), but a religion of the Living Word of God.

Having said all these, you will not be surprised if I point out that the Church was up and running long before any NT book was written. This should also indicate that the Church is well capable of running where there is no NT or OT books. I guess by now, you realise that the knowledge of the name of God does not depend on books as far as I am concerned. For our Faith, it is the power of the Holy Spirit which grant people the knowledge of God and his name. It is on this power the the Church was running even before the NT, and can run where books are not or people are not capable of reading and writting. All that is required is the Holy Spirit, and human beings.

To save time, if you still need me to quote verses for you, let me know. The point is, if man can't pronounce his deepest/fondest insight in words, how can he pronounce the full name of God? Is God smaller than our knowledge? Hebrew used a four letter word as a 'name' of God, but even then they knew that it was so holy and sacred that because it was not just about pronounciation and saying it, only the high priest was allowed to say it. Recently, the Pope has advised the Catholic Church not to use that name anymore in regular writtings for the same reasons of its sacredness and mystery.

The real place to find the name of God is not in books but in the heart.

[Amigo]

Also Amigo, you have not answered my question, I am afraid.

You said Jesus is God, not a god.

Now, when Jesus (God) dies, who ran the universe?

What is death to you?
Tell me your understanding of death, then I will know where to start in answering your questions.

[Ramadhan]

What is death to you? Tell me your understanding of death, then I will know where to start in answering your questions.

umm... I really do not want to be dragged into plays of words.
This is my understanding of your belief:
1. you believe Jesus is God
2. Jesus died in crucifixion
3. God died

So what happened when God died? who ran the universe?
Tell me where if any of my understanding of your belief in incorrect.

By the way, this is the definition of "death" according to dictionary, so you may use it:

death

   [deth]

Show IPA
–noun 1. the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism. Compare brain death.

2. an instance of this: a death in the family; letters published after his death.

3. the state of being dead: to lie still in death.

EXPAND
—Idioms 12. at death's door, in serious danger of death; gravely ill: Two survivors of the crash are still at death's door.

13. be death on, Informal . a. to be excessively strict about: That publisher is death on sloppily typed manuscripts.

b. to be snobbish about or toward.

c. to be able to cope with easily and successfully: The third baseman is death on pop flies.



14. do to death, a. to kill, especially to murder.

b. to repeat too often, to the point of becoming monotonous and boring: That theme has been done to death.



EXPAND
Origin:
before 900; Middle English deeth, Old English dēath; cognate with German Tod, Gothic dauthus; akin to Old Norse deyja to die1 ; see -th

—Related forms pre·death, noun

—Can be confused:  dearth, death .

—Synonyms
1. decease, demise, passing, departure.


—Antonyms
1. birth, life.

[Ramadhan]

Also, I don't reply to mocking, if a question is asked in a mocking tone, I will skip it to get to the more human ones to save time.

Amigo, I have not seen any mocking in this thread, and I consider the discussion so far is quite civilized. If there is any post that is mocking in nature, please report it, and I will remove it.

[Amigo]

umm... I really do not want to be dragged into plays of words.
This is my understanding of your belief:
1. you believe Jesus is God
2. Jesus died in crucifixion
3. God died

So what happened when God died? who ran the universe?
Tell me where if any of my understanding of your belief in incorrect.

By the way, this is the definition of "death" according to dictionary, so you may use it:

death

   [deth]

Show IPA
–noun 1. the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism. Compare brain death.

2. an instance of this: a death in the family; letters published after his death.

3. the state of being dead: to lie still in death.

EXPAND
—Idioms 12. at death's door, in serious danger of death; gravely ill: Two survivors of the crash are still at death's door.

13. be death on, Informal . a. to be excessively strict about: That publisher is death on sloppily typed manuscripts.

b. to be snobbish about or toward.

c. to be able to cope with easily and successfully: The third baseman is death on pop flies.



14. do to death, a. to kill, especially to murder.

b. to repeat too often, to the point of becoming monotonous and boring: That theme has been done to death.



EXPAND
Origin:
before 900; Middle English deeth, Old English dēath; cognate with German Tod, Gothic dauthus; akin to Old Norse deyja to die1 ; see -th

—Related forms pre·death, noun

—Can be confused:  dearth, death .

—Synonyms
1. decease, demise, passing, departure.


—Antonyms
1. birth, life.

Hello brother Ramadhan

Thanks for the reply. I was expecting an answer in your own word, but we can also use this I guess. For now, let's keep the two words in the antonyms of death at hand: birth and life.

Before we continue, and other question.
What is the universe to you?


I have an other question: What is the universe to you?
Sorry, I should have asked you this question also earlier together with the one on death.

[Ramadhan]

Before we continue, and other question. What is the universe to you? I have an other question: What is the universe to you? Sorry, I should have asked you this question also earlier together with the one on death.

Amigo, I don't understand why you keep asking me the definitions of those words, as I assume english is your native language (considering you are living in canada and all), and if I don't know you any better, I would thinkk you are trolling. But let me take you seriously.
This is the definitions of the universe:

World English Dictionary
universe (ˈjuːnɪˌvɜːs)

— n 1. astronomy the aggregate of all existing matter, energy, and space 2. human beings collectively 3. a province or sphere of thought or activity 4. statistics another word for population [C16: from French univers, from Latin ūniversum the whole world, from ūniversus all together, from uni- + vertere to turn]



Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
Cite This Source
Word Origin & History

universe
1589, "the whole world, cosmos," from O.Fr. univers (12c.), from L. universum "the universe," noun use of neut. of adj. universus "all together," lit. "turned into one," from unus "one" (see one) + versus, pp. of vertere "to turn" (see versus). Properly a loan-translation of Gk. to holon "the universe," noun use of neut. of adj. holos "whole" (see safe (adj.))



Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
Cite This Source
Science Dictionary
universe (y

'nə-vûrs') Pronunciation Key
The totality of matter, energy, and space, including the Solar System, the galaxies, and the contents of the space between the galaxies. Current theories of cosmology suggest that the universe is constantly expanding.

[Ramadhan]

So Amigo,

Can you now please answer my question once and for all:

What ran the universe when God died?

[Amigo]

I had hoped to get answers from the Koran so I can answer you in your own language. I didn't ask because I don't know, I asked so I can make sure I am addressing you and not assuming what you may think of these issues.

I should also ask the definition for 'God' since we needs all these words in order to procceed. However to save time, I will let you look it up hopefully from the same sources whichever sources you trust...

Where do you believe people go when they die? Do you believe they 'go' somewhere or that they just 'stop'/cease to exist? Do you believe that they are still in the universe or outside of the universe or nowhere and no activity?
No I am not throlling. I am trying to answer you seriously. And in order to do this I have to make sure we are still together.

God bless

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you brmm,

Instead of searching for our differences and striving to find faults in other religions, I believe we should try and find ways to work together. We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers, despite all our differences.

Abraham, Moses and Jesus are central to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and I believe God brings us together in other ways too.

In 2009 I had the privilege to go to Jerusalem, and stand by the Wailing Wall, which is a sacred place to the Jews. But when you walk back fifty paces and look above the wall, you see the golden dome of ‘The Dome of the Rock Mosque, and the Al Aqsa sacred to Islam. Most of the Christian holy places are within the Muslim quarters of Jerusalem, this in turn is surrounded by the Jews.

It is said in Judaism and Christianity, that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son in the region of Mount Moriah. It is also said that God commanded Solomon to build the Temple Mount on Mount Moriah, this is a huge structure, a small part of it is what we know as the Wailing Wall, or Western Wall. On top of the Temple Mount, God commanded Solomon to build a Temple, that will house ‘The Ark of the Covenant’ better known for the Ten Commandments. Jesus prayed on the Temple Mount, and when he healed people he sent them to the Temple to give thanks.

The prophet pbuh ascended to heaven in the region of Mount Moriah, in Jerusalem, on the spot were Abraham was said to have given his son as a sacrifice. It is also were Solomon was commanded to build the Temple to house the Ark of the Covenant of God, known as the Ten Commandments. It is were Jesus worshiped, The Temple was destroyed and rebuilt, then destroyed again and Two Mosques were built on top of the Temple Mount, The Dome of the Rock is built on were Solomon’s Temple once stood. The Dome is said to be the place where the prophet pbuh, ascended up to heaven on his winged horse.

It seems that God has linked Judaism, Christianity and Islam together on this one sacred place.

But why has God brought all these three religions together in so many ways?

In the spirit of searching for One God

Eric

[brmm]

Amigo Amigo,

4. As a Catholic, I don't consider Christianity a religion of 'the Book' (dead letters compiled together), but a religion of the Living Word of God.

This is 180 degree the opposite in Islam. Our prophet Mohammed PBUH before he died, he said to the Muslim nation clearly in the meaning of: I will die so hold tightly the book of Allah and I ensure for you that you not get strayed.

To save time, if you still need me to quote verses for you, let me know.
The real place to find the name of God is not in books but in the heart.

Yes pls if u have time, otherwise I can read your answer and it very clear to me.

Recently, the Pope has advised the Catholic Church not to use that name anymore in regular writtings for the same reasons of its sacredness and mystery.

You know, in Islam, if any one ( and I mean it by any one) came with an idea like this, and he said to the Muslim nation: don't say the sacred name of Allah. We will (((ALL))) consider him ((((directly))) as a dis-believer and not one of us.

I really wish to know your comments about few things like:
1. When the Pope said so, you ( in the Catholice world) received it just normaly and accepted it without any discussion?
2. Since you ( in the Catholice world) consider the Pope as a divine position or at least a very holy person, my question is: we all know that the Pope as a man is a chosen man by other people and some powerful entities in different countries, so HOW the people can choose a man who can give forgiveness to other men?
3. I don't know about u, but for me it sounds very strange that the Pope always a white skin man with blue eyes, what about the African, the Asian, the Spanish & the Arabian Catholics ?!


Last thing to say,
Dear Amigo "if u accept my advise":
You have, for sure, better English than mine. It means if u read the Holy Quran (as a neutral reader) u should get the written message.
You said, Muslims think the Bible is corrupt.
I think u know that Bible from Bibliotek which means in many European countries library, because it is a collection of chosen books by men not by God.Thats y the different Christian groups never agreed about the number of the books both for OT & NT.
What I wanna say here is that, before I have read the Bible, I thought I will never get any thing from it concerning worshiping ONE GOD & Jesus PBUH as a prophet and not GOD, but after I read even some chapters or parts of it, I found that you (The Christian) see only what you wish to see and in the way that you want, and thats why you consider King James translation as the best one, while I consider it now the worse translation for the Bible, because the translators did their best to introduce the idea of Jesus is a god or GOD for the readers.
When God says in your Bible: I AM THE FIRST, I AM THE LAST AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD,
and Jesus said: I worship God and I can do nothing, all my works by God.

“In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,…” Luke 10:21 Jeusus saying clearly: I am (((NOT))) the god of heaven and earth.
It is very strange to me how u understand this in a different way!

I think, u should be more direct to the point and be more clear.

live man - dead man = soul.
dead man = no ability to speak/no ability to pray
live man = ability to speak/ability to pray
Ability to speak - no ability to speak = soul.
Ability to pray - no ability to pray = soul.

Jesus live - Jesus dead (on the Cross as u believe & he was not able to speak/pray)= Jesus's soul.

It means: if Jesus was without a soul, he would not be able to speak/pray.
It means: Jesus's soul was the one who spoke to people and worshiped GOD.
It means : There is no divinity & humanity statuses for Jesus.
It means : There is Trinity.
It means : There is no Salvation.
It means : Jesus was a man, neither a god nor GOD, and Jesus never said so.
It means : There is ONE GOD and Jesus was his prophet.


Since you are a good reader, I guess u have heard about Brother Ahmed Deedat. He was the best who make debates with Christian.
I invite u to see his debate about Crucifixion in the link below (it is a good one, do not miss it):
youtube.com/watch?v=BbMzCkHOBhE

Everyone of us has a time to leave, but before your time comes, be sure to save your self from the eternal staying in Hell, by facing your Lord believing in your heart that He is truly the only one, but the problem is : who knows his time ?!
We, Muslims, believe that everyone of us when he die, two angels will come directly and ask us, the first question will be: WHO IS YOUR GOD? WE SHOULD "ALLAH".

Quran 20:14"Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise."

Q04:48"Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin"

Have a nice day.

[Ramadhan]

I had hoped to get answers from the Koran so I can answer you in your own language.

I don't understand why you need references from the Qur'an to explain your own belief?
When I explain my belief, I don't go asking people to tell me about what the bible says.

You are grasping on strawman.

Can you please just tell me and explain:

When God died, what happened to and who ran the universe?

And in order to do this I have to make sure we are still together.

We don't need to be on the same page, I only need to you to explain your answer. If I don't understand about your answer, I will ask you again.

I am waiting, Amigo.

[brmm]

Greetings and peace be with you brmm,

Instead of searching for our differences and striving to find faults in other religions, I believe we should try and find ways to work together. We are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers, despite all our differences.

Abraham, Moses and Jesus are central to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and I believe God brings us together in other ways too.

In 2009 I had the privilege to go to Jerusalem, and stand by the Wailing Wall, which is a sacred place to the Jews. But when you walk back fifty paces and look above the wall, you see the golden dome of ‘The Dome of the Rock Mosque, and the Al Aqsa sacred to Islam. Most of the Christian holy places are within the Muslim quarters of Jerusalem, this in turn is surrounded by the Jews.

It is said in Judaism and Christianity, that God commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son in the region of Mount Moriah. It is also said that God commanded Solomon to build the Temple Mount on Mount Moriah, this is a huge structure, a small part of it is what we know as the Wailing Wall, or Western Wall. On top of the Temple Mount, God commanded Solomon to build a Temple, that will house ‘The Ark of the Covenant’ better known for the Ten Commandments. Jesus prayed on the Temple Mount, and when he healed people he sent them to the Temple to give thanks.

The prophet pbuh ascended to heaven in the region of Mount Moriah, in Jerusalem, on the spot were Abraham was said to have given his son as a sacrifice. It is also were Solomon was commanded to build the Temple to house the Ark of the Covenant of God, known as the Ten Commandments. It is were Jesus worshiped, The Temple was destroyed and rebuilt, then destroyed again and Two Mosques were built on top of the Temple Mount, The Dome of the Rock is built on were Solomon’s Temple once stood. The Dome is said to be the place where the prophet pbuh, ascended up to heaven on his winged horse.

It seems that God has linked Judaism, Christianity and Islam together on this one sacred place.

But why has God brought all these three religions together in so many ways?

In the spirit of searching for One God

Eric

Hello Eric, Assalam Alaikom
You have a nice message and nice words. Actually Allah have ordered us to call for His way in the right way. If I, as a Muslim, believe that I have the truth with me, I mean the right belief, then how the others will know it if I did not speak up ? My duty is to speak, and their right is to accept or not.

Allah says in the Holy Quran,
16:125"Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way."

and Allah says:
18:29 "And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve",... "

Muslims say: Mohammed, Jesus & Moses PBUThem are brothers (since they were chosen prophets of God).
Christian say: Mohammed is a false prophet.
Jews say: Jesus & Mohammed are false prophets.
So, who is the fair side here ?
U know, if the Christian world, acknowledge Mohammed as a "prophet" then no one can be Christian. Because if Jesus was a prophet from God, then the people should follow and believe the prophet that came after him, which is Mohammed. And even if we need to go by Jesus was god, then Mohammed will be also the messenger and should be followed by the people. Both ways people <MUST> follow Mohammed.
To get rid of this huge problem, Christian say: Mohammed is a false prophet.

===========================
Muslims believe that prophet Ishmael was the oldest son for prophet Ibrahim from Hajar, and prophet Isaac was the youngest son from Sara, and the story of Ibrahim were he got the order to slaughter his son Ishmael not Isaac, happened exactly in Mecca, where we have the Kaaba mosque. We have it in the Holy Quran also.
===========================

About the story of prophet Solomon's Temple on Mount Moriah, I do not think I believe it, this is what the Jews say.
I am sure you have read in the Bible about the followers of Jesus, the Samaritans, who believed in him and took his message.
The good news is that we still have less than 1000 of them live together in a closed society in Israel (Palestine) in a city called Hebron.
The bad news (but not for us as Muslims) is that those people:
1) Pray like Muslims.
2) accept Mohammed as the last prophet. They are even have an old written document, they claim the prophet Mohammed gave it to them, that no Muslim should attack them because they are Jesus's believers.
3) They do not agree about the story of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem (Al Kods) and they believe that the Holy Mount, they call it Gerizim, was the place for that Temple and it is still there in their area and they are still doing their religious celebrations on it until today.(I will attach videos for this).
4) they accept only the first 5 parts of the Torah and they do not accept neither the Christian Cross nor the Jewish star.
5) They do not consider Jerusalem as a holy city, because it is not mentioned in the Torah, while Gerizim Mount have mentioned 13 times as they say.
6) The religious Jews in Israel do not like them and they are straggling to get their rights as citizens.

Video 1, see the prays of the Samaritans (second 8)
youtube.com/watch?v=Ui8JguEffCA&feature=related

Video 2, the Samaritans claim over the Holy mount, they call it Gerizim.
youtube.com/watch?v=7psUMVdcywU&feature=related


Judges 9:7 When Jotham was told about this, he climbed up on the ...
When Jotham was told about this, he climbed up on the top of Mount Gerizim and shouted
to them, "Listen to me, citizens of Shechem, so that God may listen to ...

Deuteronomy 27:12 When you have crossed the Jordan, these tribes ...
When you have crossed the Jordan, these tribes shall stand on Mount Gerizim to bless
the people: Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Joseph and Benjamin. ...

Deuteronomy 11:29 When the LORD your God has brought you into the ...
When the LORD your God has brought you into the land you are entering to possess,
you are to proclaim on Mount Gerizim the blessings, and on Mount Ebal the ...

Joshua 8:33 All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their ...
... Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of
Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he ...

John 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews ...
... So tell me, why is it that you Jews insist that Jerusalem is the only place of worship,
while we Samaritans claim it is here at Mount Gerizim, where our ...

I wish that was useful :)

BRMM

[brmm]

It means : There is no divinity & humanity statuses for Jesus.
It means : There is Trinity.
It means : There is no Salvation.

Sorry, I should correct myself here. I can edit my threads until now :(
It means: There is NO trinity.

[brmm]

I am sorry, I should correct myself again.
I said:
===========================
Muslims believe that prophet Ishmael was the oldest son for prophet Ibrahim from Hajar, and prophet Isaac was the youngest son from Sara, and the story of Ibrahim were he got the order to slaughter his son Ishmael not Isaac, happened exactly in Mecca, where we have the Kaaba mosque. We have it in the Holy Quran also.
===========================
The place where Ibrahim was going to slaughter his son Ismael (PBUthem) is in Mecca but in the place where the Muslims do stoning during the Pilgrimage season every year.
We stone 3 places, and the story behind is that they are the places where the Satan have talked to Ibrahim, Hajar & Ismael to convenes them not to slaughter Ismael, but all of them stoned him.

The place of the Main mosque in Mecca is were Hajar prayed for Allah to give water for her baby, prophet Ismael, so Allah gave her Zamzam well, which gives water till our day to Millions of Muslims.


BRMM

[Amigo]

I don't understand why you need references from the Qur'an to explain your own belief?
When I explain my belief, I don't go asking people to tell me about what the bible says.

You are grasping on strawman.

Can you please just tell me and explain:

When God died, what happened to and who ran the universe?



We don't need to be on the same page, I only need to you to explain your answer. If I don't understand about your answer, I will ask you again.

I am waiting, Amigo.

How can answer you on such an important question without making sure you understand the words and vocabularly I am using. I mentioned the Koran because you said, it got all the answers.
Well, I have already started answering you. Did you notice the questions I asked you about where people go when they die? wether they are still in the universe or not? etc?

[Ramadhan]

How can answer you on such an important question without making sure you understand the words and vocabularly I am using. I mentioned the Koran because you said, it got all the answers. Well, I have already started answering you. Did you notice the questions I asked you about where people go when they die? wether they are still in the universe or not? etc?

No, you have not answered me in the slightest yet.
In fact, I asked you one simple question, and you replied with four questions.

Please just answer me, or I will consider you a troll, and we don't like troll very much in here

[Amigo]

So if I don't give you the answer you want or the way you want it I am a troll?

[Ramadhan]

So if I don't give you the answer you want or the way you want it I am a troll?

You have not even answered the question.

Please do not try so hard to become a troll.

[Amigo]

You have not even answered the question.

Please do not try so hard to become a troll.

One who want to know the truth does not hope to get it by forcing it out through whatever intimidation. Calling me a troll won't force me to reply against the way I estimate appropriate. Truth is sacred. I have high respect for it...

You are the one who seem to be trying so hard to make me a troll, I see what you are trying to achieve; people dehumanize others with name tags when they want to treat them according to the name tags...go ahead it could give you the answer as well:)

I have replied to your question, I just haven't given an answer because you are not ready for it. Once you are, you will receive it. If not through me, then through someone else. But you will know the truth when you are ready for it.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Ramadhan;

so Jesus IS god.

Now, when Jesus (aka god) died, who ran the universe?

I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe even when he was alive here on Earth. I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe when he died on this Earth. Running the universe has always been in the hands of God the Father.

This is the same God who gave you a faith through Islam, and me a faith through Christianity. It seems that God, Allah is so far beyond our understanding in the way he gives each of us our faith, God chooses whom he wills, and in the way he wills us to be.
Why should I try and change your beliefs, if God gave them to you in the first place, only God can change both you and me?

Despite all our differences, I do not believe that God wants us to spend our time arguing and trying to prove others wrong. I believe God wants us to get on with each other, and seek justice for all people despite all our differences.

In the spirit of searching for the greatest meaning of One God.

Eric

[Ramadhan]

One who want to know the truth does not hope to get it by forcing it out through whatever intimidation. Calling me a troll won't force me to reply against the way I estimate appropriate. Truth is sacred. I have high respect for it..

So you would not share the truth with me?
why?

I have replied to your question, I just haven't given an answer because you are not ready for it.

so, how can someone be ready to know what happened when god died?

even if you don't want to share it with me, do you not want to share with thousands of other members and guests who will also surely wonder what happened to the universe when god died?
Or you don't think that the thousands and thousands of members and guests who, I guarantee, will read this thread, ready to accept your truth?

[Ramadhan]

I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe even when he was alive here on Earth. I do not believe that Jesus ran the universe when he died on this Earth. Running the universe has always been in the hands of God the Father.

Eric, then you must be one of few christians who don't believe Jesus is God. Amigo is among majority christians who believe Jesus is God who runs the universe.

If you don't think Jesus is God, then who is he according to your belief?

This is the same God who gave you a faith through Islam, and me a faith through Christianity. It seems that God, Allah is so far beyond our understanding in the way he gives each of us our faith, God chooses whom he wills, and in the way he wills us to be. Why should I try and change your beliefs, if God gave them to you in the first place, only God can change both you and me?

Your paragraph above places the blame on Allah SWT. astaghfirullah. If you believe that we all are merely puppets of Allah, then what is hell for? Is it not fair that some of us will go to hell when Allah wills us to?
In Islam, we believe in freewill and predestination, not either.
Sure we were all born in different circumstances, but many of us got introduced to the truth (aka Islam) during their lifetime. Case in point: you. You are a christian and Allah give you guidance that brought you to this forum where you learnt so much about Islam and the falsehoods of christianity. It is up to you to reject all the evidence and choose your faith based on your whims and desires.

Also if we are to follow your logic and reasoning, then Allah wills atheists, agnostics, hindus, killers, rapists, paedophiles (I'm sure Amigo is familiar with this, seeing he is a catholic), etc etc.
Astaghfirullah.

Despite all our differences, I do not believe that God wants us to spend our time arguing and trying to prove others wrong. I believe God wants us to get on with each other, and seek justice for all people despite all our differences.

At least in this forum, we are trying to show the truth of Islam and (in this section) how false other beliefs. I am all for good discussions, unfortunately some people are not ready for that.

[Who Am I?]

If I may be allowed to interrupt for a minute:

The concept of predestination has always bothered me. If God has already determined who will be saved and who won't be, then nothing we do on this earth matters, because God has already decided who lives and who dies. You can lead a life of sainthood and still go to hell just because God decided you are not worthy. You can be the worst sinner and still go to heaven because "God thinks you're cool." It sounds too much like a high school club for my tastes. I like to think that we have free will and can choose our own fate. Otherwise, nothing we do here on earth matters, and that bothers me.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument...

[brmm]

If I may be allowed to interrupt for a minute:

The concept of predestination has always bothered me. If God has already determined who will be saved and who won't be, then nothing we do on this earth matters, because God has already decided who lives and who dies. You can lead a life of sainthood and still go to hell just because God decided you are not worthy. You can be the worst sinner and still go to heaven because "God thinks you're cool." It sounds too much like a high school club for my tastes. I like to think that we have free will and can choose our own fate. Otherwise, nothing we do here on earth matters, and that bothers me.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument...

Hi Pre-Brother,
I will try to explain the Islamic view for your point with proofs from the Holy Quran.
Allah Almighty says:

Q91:07-10 “07 And a soul and Him Who perfected it, 08 And inspired it its libertinism and its righteousness, 09 He has succeeded who purifies it, 10 And he has failed who instills it.”

Q90:04-10 “4 We have certainly created man into hardship,5 Does he think that never will anyone overcome him, 6 He says, "I have spent wealth in abundance." 7 Does he think that no one has seen him, 8 Have We not made for him two eyes, 9 And a tongue and two lips, 10 And have shown him the two ways”

So the message here is clear. That Allah have created the man and gave him the <full ability><both physical & mental> to choose the bad or the good way in life.

Guidance in Islam can be divided into 2 categories which are:
1. Direction guidance.
2. Help guidance.

Let me take this example to explain them. If you are driving your car in a city and you have lost your way, you will stop by someone and ask him about your destination. Let us say that he told you how to go there but it was not easy for you to get it. If you were so nice and thanked the man with many good words, maybe he will feel sorry for you and jump up in your car to join you till you reach your destination.
The first time he gave you direction guidance, but in the second time he gave you help guidance.

The same with Allah Almighty. He gave them direction guidance by sending His prophets and books.
But the help guidance does not give it to any one, only the one who want to be good.
Another example: As a Muslim maybe I will feel lazy wake up in the early morning every day leaving my warm bed and wash myself with cold water to do the Salat (Prayer). But if I insist to wake up every day to my prayers I will feel with time that I would be so sad if I missed it one day. This is the help guidance from Allah, to make you love what you thought it was difficult to worship Him.

Allah Almighty said to His prophet Mohammed (PBUH):
Q42:52 “…, And indeed, [O Muhammad], you guide to a straight path”
This is the direction guidance.
Q28:56 “Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guideswhom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided”
This is the help guidance.

Last thing to say, is Allah’s knowledge according to our destinies is <a beforehand knowledge> NOT < a guided knowledge>. Because God already knows what will happen with every one of us and which way each of us will choose from the time of Adam or the moment when He decided to create us.
I will give you an example from the Quran.

Q111 “May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he,”

This verse had been sent around 10 years before the death of this dis-believer man, Abu Lahab. He was able to convert to Islam and made the Quran look bad and not truthful within these 10 years, but he never did.
This is an example about how the knowledge of Allah is a beforehand knowledge.

I wish that help somehow.
BRMM

[Who Am I?]

Thanks, brmm. That does help clear it up. So if I understand correctly, Allah knows what we will choose, yet still gives us the free will to choose for ourselves.

To me, that makes it more important to keep your faith by doing good to your fellow man.

[brmm]

where is Amigo :(

[Amigo]

where is Amigo :(

I am here!
Missing me? :)

[Ramadhan]

where is Amigo

I've been waiting for him too. He promised me he will answer my one simple question, but then he changed his mind and he thinks I'm not worthy enough to receive the answer about the truth :(

[Ramadhan]

I am here! Missing me?

Oh hi Amigo!

so, am I worthy enough for your answer now?

[brmm]

I am here!
Missing me? :)

Yea, I believe without non-muslim brothers, this forum will be without spice :argue: ! :D

[brmm]

Maybe I can suggest something,
Since Just a Guy love to read history a lot, I will suggest to read a very unique book in the Islamic library, The Stories of the Prophets (from Adam to Mohammed):

amazon.com/Stories-Prophets-Hafiz-Ibn-Kathir/dp/9960892263

Also, a good introduction about Islam by watching the movie, The Message. It is very unique movie also, filmed in 1976 in Libya, financed by Presedent Moamar Al-Kadafi, and they have made it 2 times in the same time, once with Arabic actors and a 2nd time with English speaking actors. 3 hours long. Be sure to get the English copy with Anthony Quinn.

amazon.com/Message-30th-Anniversary-Anthony-Quinn/dp/B000AQ6A4E/ref=pd_sim_b_3

BRMM

[brmm]

Good news ...
I found the Movie on U tube in one screen (3 hours).

youtube.com/watch?v=AP8jTCpDvBQ&feature=related

BRMM

[Who Am I?]

Yea, I believe without non-muslim brothers, this forum will be without spice :argue: ! :D

In that case, just call me... paprika. :D

Thanks for the suggestions, brmm. I will check out that book and movie.

[MustafaMc]

Jesus is not a god. Jesus is God.

OK so you say, but the God of Jesus supposedly forsook him on the cross. Since Jesus is God (#1) and his God (#2) forsook him, then there must be at least 2 Gods in Christianity.

Forsook - to renounce or turn away from entirely. Why did the God of Jesus renounce him? Can God turn His back on Himself? Astaghfir'Allah!

[MustafaMc]

Hi Amego,

Please can u tell me the verses in the Bible where I can find "I AM WHO AM" ?

Seems as though he made it up because Exodus 3:14 says - God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.’”

[MustafaMc]

This is the same God who gave you a faith through Islam, and me a faith through Christianity.

Peace Eric H. I can't agree with you here. How can the same God say "God gave His only begotten Son" also say "God begets not and is not begotten"? These two concepts are directly contradictory and I don't see how they are derived from the same source.

Despite all our differences, I do not believe that God wants us to spend our time arguing and trying to prove others wrong.

Is Truth compatible with falsehood? I spend every day surrounded by Christians and almost never even mention religion. This is an Islamic forum and I assume you are here to discuss religion and not to have a picnic. For example, the thread I started "Forgiveness vs Atonement" was meant to be a point of discussion to clarify a very important concept which illustrates a fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity. I welcome your participation there.

[MustafaMc]

My understanding of Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainment) is that Allah (swt) has decreed what circumstances we will encounter in our life, but our response and reaction to those external circumstances is our responsibility.

[Who Am I?]

My understanding of Al-Qadar (Divine Preordainment) is that Allah (swt) has decreed what circumstances we will encounter in our life, but our response and reaction to those external circumstances is our responsibility.

I have been listening to some podcasts from bayinnah.com and one of the ones I downloaded talks about this. Abdul Nasir Jangda said the same thing in one of his lessons on the Qu'ran. You will face adversity in your life, but it is how you deal with that adversity that determines who you are.

[MustafaMc]

You will face adversity in your life, but it is how you deal with that adversity that determines who you are.

Exactly! Where is the Justice and Mercy of Allah (swt) if we are mere puppets-on-a-string doing only what we are programmed to do and then getting rewarded or punished for what we did not have control over?

[Who Am I?]

Exactly! Where is the Justice and Mercy of Allah (swt) if we are mere puppets-on-a-string doing only what we are programmed to do and then getting rewarded or punished for what we did not have control over?

Right, we might as well not even have been created if that were the case.

[siam]

free-will and predestination

I prefer to think of it as "conditional free-will" rather than an either/or stituation.
For example---we cannot choose where we are born, when we will die, or some of the circumstances of our lives---but we do have control over our "selves"---that is we have the freedom to choose our intentions and actions.---and it is this (intentions/actions) for which we will be held accountable.

[brmm]

Just a Guy, a question pls: do u know what is written in your name's logo (Avatar) ?

Pls let me your opinion about the movie.

Paprkia is a good choice because it is mild and matches many food, let us wait for Amigo and see what spice he will choose :statisfie , actually I am crazy about Aromat Salt from Knorr, I use it with all my food.


BRMM

[MustafaMc]

Exactly! Where is the Justice and Mercy of Allah (swt) if we are mere puppets-on-a-string doing only what we are programmed to do and then getting rewarded or punished for what we did not have control over?

My wife and I were reading the Quran tonight and I thought this ayat was relevant.

Quran 6:125 And whomsoever it is Allah's will to guide, He expands his bosom unto the Surrender, and whomsoever it is His Will to send astray, He makes his bosom close and narrow as if he were engaged in sheer ascent. Thus Allah lays ignominy upon those who believe not.

[Who Am I?]

Just a Guy, a question pls: do u know what is written in your name's logo (Avatar) ?

Pls let me your opinion about the movie.

Paprkia is a good choice because it is mild and matches many food, let us wait for Amigo and see what spice he will choose :statisfie , actually I am crazy about Aromat Salt from Knorr, I use it with all my food.


BRMM

I think the words in my avatar is the shahada written in Arabic script.

I haven't yet had an opportunity to watch the movie but I will as soon as I am able.

I almost went with cinammon instead of paprika, but I thought cinammon might be a little too sweet.

[brmm]

I think the words in my avatar is the shahada written in Arabic script.

I almost went with cinammon instead of paprika, but I thought cinammon might be a little too sweet.

Actually I am happy that u know what it means, but don't u think that u r teasing the non-Muslims members ?

If you have the chance to stop in Copenhagen airport (Kastrup) be sure to get the Cinnamon buns in 24/7 shop there, it is so great, unbelievable.

BRMM

[Amigo]

@ Ramadhan

You asked what would Jesus do? probably the same thing, He liked to answer questions by other questions. He is my Teacher and I try to follow his example, I have learned to understand why he did what he did.
You asked whether my answer is different for various types of people. No it is not different. What is different is those people, where each one of them is, and the particular road they have to go through to reach the answer. This is why a question is the best way to start answering. A question focus, and personalize. The same questions for various people to focus their attention in the direction of the answer.
Perhaps you want an answer not for yourself but for Islam/Muslims. Well, the same thing I think. Things go by stages, sometimes you can't just skip steps.

So giving me answer from the dictionary does not really help. I did not ask for myself but for you so that you can think about those question and notice something which is useful for the answer. If you don't want to think about those questions, yes, you are not ready for the answer, in fact you are not willing to receive the answer. Food get to the stomach trough the mouth, air gets in the body through the nose, etc... yes there are condition for truth, truth is life. We live as long as we participate, allow the proccess to procceed.
God does not force the truth on anyone. It is there ready to be received by those who will extand their arms to receive it. Truth is available for everyone, but not everyone receive it, not because is blocking the way, but because the individuals are not interested.
I am not refusing anything, you are the one who is refusing to move ahead.

I am not the one who possesses the answer. The answer is not in me. It is accessible to anyone. When I am asked, I can only point out, and you can go and see for yourself. So again, you can understand that I am not refusing you an answer because it is not in my possession. you are refusing it to yourself because you are refusing to move toward it as far as I can see.

[Amigo]

Just a Guy, a question pls: do u know what is written in your name's logo (Avatar) ?

Pls let me your opinion about the movie.

Paprkia is a good choice because it is mild and matches many food, let us wait for Amigo and see what spice he will choose :statisfie , actually I am crazy about Aromat Salt from Knorr, I use it with all my food.


BRMM

Oh, sorry guys, I am not much into spices.

[MustafaMc]

I wonder how 'stardust' would enhance the flavor of food?

According somewhat to Wikipedia, each stardust grain contained within meteorites existed before the earth was formed. The interest in stardust lies in the new information that it has brought to the sciences of stellar evolution and nucleosynthesis. The question yet remains, "What would stardust taste like when sprinkled over a plate of fresh peas?"

If someone does not understand what I am trying to 'get' at here then they are either being dishonest or maybe I just wrote a bunch of gobbeldygook that can't be 'got' except by Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking. A definition may be required here Gobbledygook is any text containing jargon or especially convoluted English that results in it being excessively hard to understand or even incomprehensible.

:uhwhat:muddlehea:?^o):mmokay:

I rather like curry as it reminds me of a dear friend from Pakistan.

[Ramadhan]

You asked what would Jesus do? probably the same thing, He liked to answer questions by other questions. He is my Teacher and I try to follow his example, I have learned to understand why he did what he did.

I never knew that Jesus would refuse to answer someone's question unless that person first answer all the questions from Jesus, and that the answer was conditional upon that person.

You asked whether my answer is different for various types of people. No it is not different. What is different is those people, where each one of them is, and the particular road they have to go through to reach the answer. This is why a question is the best way to start answering. A question focus, and personalize. The same questions for various people to focus their attention in the direction of the answer.

what I see is that you are not honest by dancing around my question and would only give your answer on the condition that I answer all your questions first. And if I am unable to answer your questions, you refuses to answer my first question. You certainly have a lot of words, but most of them are empty, which I am not surprised. How would you like it if you ask a question about Islam and I will have you answer my all my questions?
Is this the standard practice among christians or just you?
Grace Seeker, can you please confirm? Should I now have you answer all my questions to you before you can ask a single question in this section?

Let me ask you and please answer honestly: do you really know the answer to my question?
Because if you don't, just say so, that would save me (and yours) time. And that would be far more honest and respectable.

Perhaps you want an answer not for yourself but for Islam/Muslims. Well, the same thing I think. Things go by stages, sometimes you can't just skip steps.

Now you are being paranoid. I want the answer for myself only, I am not representing Islam or other muslim.

So giving me answer from the dictionary does not really help.

why not? I believe in the definition given by dictionary.
You are now actually the one who only accept a certain answer to your question.

If you don't want to think about those questions, yes, you are not ready for the answer, in fact you are not willing to receive the answer.

What questions that I did not answer?
So how many people are actually ready to receive the answer? What are the conditions to be ready to receive answer for one simple question?
Does this mean God is unjust because only a select few people are ready to receive the answer?

Food get to the stomach trough the mouth, air gets in the body through the nose, etc... yes there are condition for truth, truth is life. We live as long as we participate, allow the proccess to procceed.

Huh? Can anyone explain what this means?

God does not force the truth on anyone. It is there ready to be received by those who will extand their arms to receive it. Truth is available for everyone, but not everyone receive it, not because is blocking the way, but because the individuals are not interested. I am not refusing anything, you are the one who is refusing to move ahead.

You are being dishonest here. I have been begging you to give me the answer, but you keep refusing me, telling me I am not ready.
Would Jesus do this?

I am not the one who possesses the answer. The answer is not in me. It is accessible to anyone. When I am asked, I can only point out, and you can go and see for yourself. So again, you can understand that I am not refusing you an answer because it is not in my possession. you are refusing it to yourself because you are refusing to move toward it as far as I can see.

come again?
Grace Seeker, can you help your fellow christian here and translate to me what he wrote above to a simple language that common folks like me can understand. It seems he was using a very wordy convoluted christian language that may only be understood by a pastor.

[Who Am I?]

Actually I am happy that u know what it means, but don't u think that u r teasing the non-Muslims members ?

If you have the chance to stop in Copenhagen airport (Kastrup) be sure to get the Cinnamon buns in 24/7 shop there, it is so great, unbelievable.

BRMM

Hmm... I never thought of it like that. I will change my avatar immediately.

I love cinnamon buns too...

[Amigo]

Let me ask you and please answer honestly: do you really know the answer to my question?

Of course I do, I would not be a serious Christian without clarity on that questions and many more that are at the foundation of the Christian Faith.

[Ramadhan]

Of course I do, I would not be a serious Christian without clarity on that questions and many more that are at the foundation of the Christian Faith.

Ah, I knew that you are a serious christian and that you know the answers to many great questions regarding christian faith, hence I asked the question, and I was very disappointed when you refused to share with me (and thousands of other members and guests who read this forum) your truth of christianity.

Ok, let me clarify my position: in Islam, we believe God does not and never dies, and that everything depends on God, because God is The Sustainer.

Hence, let me ask you again, humbly and with open heart and mind: Since you as a christian believe that God died, what happened when God died?

[Amigo]

Ah, I knew that you are a serious christian and that you know the answers to many great questions regarding christian faith, hence I asked the question, and I was very disappointed when you refused to share with me (and thousands of other members and guests who read this forum) your truth of christianity.

Ok, let me clarify my position: in Islam, we believe God does not and never dies, and that everything depends on God, because God is The Sustainer.

Hence, let me ask you again, humbly and with open heart and mind: Since you as a christian believe that God died, what happened when God died?

Ok friend, I have tried to help you see a full answer the gentle way, but you insist on your own way. So be it.
God also let us have it our way. It is for this reason that I will also let you have it your way.

Well, what happens when The Sustainer dies? Chaos!

[Ramadhan]

Well, what happens when The Sustainer dies? Chaos!

But when Jesus (aka God) died, the whole creation didn't go into chaos.
So what happened?
Can you please enlighten me further?

[Amigo]

But when Jesus (aka God) died, the whole creation didn't go into chaos.
So what happened?
Can you please enlighten me further?

Jesus is God in the human nature, not in the 'whole creation' they way you seem to see it.

[Ramadhan]

Jesus is God in the human nature, not in the 'whole creation' they way you seem to see it.

I don't think I understand. Can you please elaborate more about God in the human nature?
So Jesus is not really God?

[MustafaMc]

It seems that to Christians, Jesus was a 'human shell' which 'housed' God and that they worship this 'God-person' that dwelt within and not the 'human shell'.

[Amigo]

I don't think I understand. Can you please elaborate more about God in the human nature?
So Jesus is not really God?

God is everywhere, even in the human nature.
And human nature is in different realms: the corruptible world (this world), the world of the dead, and the incorruptible world. God is also in everyone of these realms.
In this world, there is corruption, becaue the Sustainer is not sutaining our nature as He would like.
He is not sustaining it because we are resisting him even chasing him out, which lead to complete chaos or death: this is illustrated by Jesus life, passion, and death.
In the realm of the dead, the dead meet God, those who have died at peace with him, find life in Him, those who died in hostility with Him, He became Hell to them.
In the realm of the incorruptible human nature, or of the resurrection. God is at perfect peace with the human nature. There men enjoy communion with God.

[Ramadhan]

God is everywhere, even in the human nature. And human nature is in different realms: the corruptible world (this world), the world of the dead, and the incorruptible world. God is also in everyone of these realms. In this world, there is corruption, becaue the Sustainer is not sutaining our nature as He would like. He is not sustaining it because we are resisting him even chasing him out, which lead to complete chaos or death: this is illustrated by Jesus life, passion, and death. In the realm of the dead, the dead meet God, those who have died at peace with him, find life in Him, those who died in hostility with Him, He became Hell to them. In the realm of the incorruptible human nature, or of the resurrection. God is at perfect peace with the human nature. There men enjoy communion with God

I tried to discern what you wrote but I think I'm more confused. So is Jesus God or not?

[brmm]

Jesus is God in the human nature, not in the 'whole creation' they way you seem to see it.

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

[Amigo]

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

Correct. Thanks for highlighting those points.

[brmm]

Correct. Thanks for highlighting those points.

You are welcomed.
At the end you agreed with me that God can not be in the form of Jesus or any thing else on this earth or any where else as it is written in the Bible, otherwise we need to assume that God have changed His mind to go with the old idea, and this can not be even an idea for a discussion.

BRMM

[Amigo]

You are welcomed.
At the end you agreed with me that God can not be in the form of Jesus or any thing else on this earth or any where else as it is written in the Bible, otherwise we need to assume that God have changed His mind to go with the old idea, and this can not be even an idea for a discussion.

BRMM

I agree with the quote and the chapter and the book and the whole context it is written in. I agree with the message of God.
I did not agree your imaginings and wishful thinking or anything you are trying to put in my mind and heart.

[MustafaMc]

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

Brother brmm, I agree with you and I made a similar point in another communication that I am copying below:

Worship of other than the One God is a difficult thing to guard against. In Islam, this is known as shirk. I came from a Protestant family, but I had a great aunt that married a Catholic. I remember seeing in their home a crucifix, which is the cross with Jesus’ body portrayed, and a picture of Mary. In other Catholic homes there are Madonna figurines. This reminds me of the 10 Commandments specifically Deuteronomy 5:8 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” I see that both the Crucifix and the Madonna are idols that are worshiped along with the Unseen God. Technically speaking the Holy Spirit is the 3rd part of the Trinity, but who really has any understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. Even the ‘Father’ aspect is to a large extent intangible except as the One God per the Lord’s Prayer, but one can somewhat wrap ones mind around the concepts of Jesus hanging on the cross as the means for redemption or the Virgin Mary as revered ‘the Mother of God’. Whether or not we see that Mary is part of the Trinity does not betray the fact she and Jesus are worshiped (taken as gods) along with the Father – the One God - the One that Jesus prayed to in the Garden of Gethsemane as his God.

Christians are blind to see that their worship of Jesus is contrary to the monotheistic view of our Creator as emphasized in both the OT and in the Quran. Though they have eyes, they do not see. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have hearts, they do not understand that God is One and to say that Jesus is the Son of God elevates him to the status of being equal with the One God. If Allah (swt) guides them not, then they will not be guided to the Straight Way that leads to Eternal Life.

[Ramadhan]

Amigo, I am afraid you missed my query:

I tried to discern what you wrote but I think I'm more confused. So is Jesus God or not?

[Amigo]

Amigo, I am afraid you missed my query:

I wonder what you are trying to pull out by asking questions you know already the answers I will give. Yes. He is.

[Ramadhan]

I wonder what you are trying to pull out by asking questions you know already the answers I will give. Yes. He is.

Right. sorry if I misunderstood your earlier points because they were hard to understand.
I am going to summarize what I gathered so far from your explanation: So when God died on the crucifixion, the creation was still in working order. This means the creation does not need God.
I think this is what christians belief, am I correct?

[brmm]

Christians are blind to see that their worship of Jesus is contrary to the monotheistic view of our Creator as emphasized in both the OT and in the Quran. Though they have eyes, they do not see. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have hearts, they do not understand that God is One and to say that Jesus is the Son of God elevates him to the status of being equal with the One God. If Allah (swt) guides them not, then they will not be guided to the Straight Way that leads to Eternal Life.

Brother Mustafa, Alhamdolillah that you are a Muslim now and you are defending Islam also.

I am trying to be patient because I believe that this is my duty as a Muslim and I can say that I have a kind of experience from my converted wife, so I have already different kind of Angelical and Jehovah witness relatives in my family now.

The most funny and non scene answers I receive from the Jehovah guys. I said to them for example, you do not have history, you have no existence before 1880 (or around) in Pennsylvania, everyone knows this fact, you do not have books before this date in any library in the world.
The answer for this is: true but we were there even though we have no history!
and even though they believe that God's name is Jehovah but they pray for Jesus and they thank him for every thing !

Hundreds or thousands of contradictions in the Bible according to Christian scholars, and still they consider it as the word of God, so their belief based on what the people have wrote/changed/edited/removed/selected/neglected from the original scripture which are not exist.
They know this fact and they know what does it mean, but they do not wish to believe the reasonable consequences of this fact: which is they are floating on the air because they do not have a saved book from God.

It is really amazing how they say God (astagfirollah) is foolish and weak in their book without any shamefulness.

Wasalam Alaikom
BRMM

[brmm]

I agree with the quote and the chapter and the book and the whole context it is written in. I agree with the message of God.
I did not agree your imaginings and wishful thinking or anything you are trying to put in my mind and heart.

I knew this, but since you have said "correct" it means you have agreed. You are a clever person, so I am sure you understood what I meant with my quote, so why you have said so ?
And there was a question in my quote, I did not see any answer for it !
The question was: Did God change His mind after He said " CLEARLY" to everyone: Do not bow or worship any one in any form in any place on this earth, or in the heaven or in the water but Him ?
We have this order in the Quran also that we should not bow or worship any thing but Allah, but (as far as I know) there is no place in the Quran where Allah Sobhanaho have said "do not worship anyone in any form", to me: it is like God saying in the Torah for the Christian: Do not worship my messenger Jesus.

It is all about being proud and not about seeking the truth, this is our nature.

Q 82:06-08 "06 O you man! what has deluded you from your Lord, the Gracious one, 07 Who created you, then molded you, then proportioned you, 08 In whatever Form He wills, does He put you together"

[MustafaMc]

Brother Mustafa, Alhamdolillah that you are a Muslim now and you are defending Islam also.

Yes, indeed, alhamdulillah. Brother, I cannot boast in being a Muslim for except for the guidance of Allah (swt) I would still be a Christian, too. There is a saying, "There but for the grace of God, so go I." This is one of the biggest questions that I have which is, "Why does Allah (swt) guide some, opening their hearts to Islam, and then leave others to stray in disbelief?"

Our duty as Muslims is not to guide anyone, but rather to share the Message of Islam with knowledge, the best of manners and with patience. As long as I live in the USA, my intentions are to share Islam with whoever will listen and to defend Islam and Muslims from the falsehoods that are being spread, particularly since 9/11.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

We should worship the One God above all else, but there are false idols that we worship and they get in the way of putting God first in all things. If money, power lust, alcohol, pride, jealousy become more important than God in my life, then these are my false idols.

I do not regard praying in front of a cross or a statue as worshiping a false God, these man made icons help me to focus on their role in scripture.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

[Amigo]

Yes, indeed, alhamdulillah. Brother, I cannot boast in being a Muslim for except for the guidance of Allah (swt) I would still be a Christian, too. There is a saying, "There but for the grace of God, so go I." This is one of the biggest questions that I have which is, "Why does Allah (swt) guide some, opening their hearts to Islam, and then leave others to stray in disbelief?"

Our duty as Muslims is not to guide anyone, but rather to share the Message of Islam with knowledge, the best of manners and with patience. As long as I live in the USA, my intentions are to share Islam with whoever will listen and to defend Islam and Muslims from the falsehoods that are being spread, particularly since 9/11.

What post 9/11 falsehood do you particularly have on mind and who is spreading them?

[Ramadhan]

What post 9/11 falsehood do you particularly have on mind and who is spreading them?

Hi Amigo,
I am glad you are back. I had one question that you may have missed in between the flurry of recent posts:

Right. sorry if I misunderstood your earlier points because they were hard to understand. I am going to summarize what I gathered so far from your explanation: So when God died on the crucifixion, the creation was still in working order. This means the creation does not need God. I think this is what christians belief, am I correct?

Basically, what I was asking was, is this a christian belief that creation does not need God to exist?

[Amigo]

Hi Amigo,
I am glad you are back. I had one question that you may have missed in between the flurry of recent posts:



Basically, what I was asking was, is this a christian belief that creation does not need God to exist?

And you said you checked out those youtube videos eh?!
Do you suppose I believe that you are sincere because you say so? I can tell sincerity and honesty.
Actions speak louder than words.

[Ramadhan]

And you said you checked out those youtube videos eh?! Do you suppose I believe that you are sincere because you say so? I can tell sincerity and honesty. Actions speak louder than words.

I did check out those youtubes. Why are you accusing me of not being sincere? That's not very christian-like, is it not?
But I was still baffled by all those language and the explanations are very abstract. pardon my limited english for it is only my third or fourth language. So can you please confirm in a simple language that christians do not believe that the creation does not depend on God to exist?
Just treat me as an undereductaed simple person from Indonesia who knows nothing about christianity, so you may have to explain christianity creed in a language simple to understand and acceptable to basic common sense/logic, because that's all we have in common as human beings. Thank you.

[Amigo]

I did check out those youtubes. Why are you accusing me of not being sincere? That's not very christian-like, is it not?
But I was still baffled by all those language and the explanations are very abstract. pardon my limited english for it is only my third or fourth language. So can you please confirm in a simple language that christians do not believe that the creation does not depend on God to exist?
Just treat me as an undereductaed simple person from Indonesia who knows nothing about christianity, so you may have to explain christianity creed in a language simple to understand and acceptable to basic common sense/logic, because that's all we have in common as human beings. Thank you.

My friend, when you ask complicated questions, you get compicated answers.
Complicated means exists for complicated people. Otherwise truth is most simple.
When a grown up person asks a 4 year old question, it can be assumed that they are not expecting a answer for a 4 year old...therefore the question could be complicated than it appears.

Well, for a simple answer:
Creation depends on God to exists.

[MustafaMc]

Greetings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

We should worship the One God above all else, but there are false idols that we worship and they get in the way of putting God first in all things. If money, power lust, alcohol, pride, jealousy become more important than God in my life, then these are my false idols.

Yes, I agree that it is hard to keep our focus on worshiping the One God

I do not regard praying in front of a cross or a statue as worshiping a false God, these man made icons help me to focus on their role in scripture.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

I can understand how these objects can serve to remember Jesus and Mary and their lives. Perhaps, these objects are not worshiped, but rather the lives that they represent. For example, worshiping Jesus as literally God within a human form as opposed to exclusive focus on the Father in worship. There is a fine line between respecting a person and worshiping him as God. I can't place my finger on the hadith, but I believe that Muhammad warned his followers to not be extreme in there respect for him as the Christians had done with Jesus.

[Ramadhan]

My friend, when you ask complicated questions, you get compicated answers.

But my question is very simple, no? Does the creation depend on God to exist or not? Because you said God died, but creation did not perish, so this mean creation does not need god, right?
That's what I get from christianity belief.
Why does everything have to be made so complicated with christian theology?

Complicated means exists for complicated people. Otherwise truth is most simple. When a grown up person asks a 4 year old question, it can be assumed that they are not expecting a answer for a 4 year old...therefore the question could be complicated than it appears.

Simple means and answers is understood by ALL people, whether they are simple or complicated, young or old.

Well, for a simple answer: Creation depends on God to exists.

Great, finally you give me straightforward answer.
Now, this statement of yours contradict your earlier statement that God died.
When God died for 2-3 days (? correct me if I'm wrong), creation did not perish, so this shows creation does not depend on God to exist.
You have two statements that contradict each other, and this is a fundamental problem, not just a superficial one.

[Amigo]

Simple means and answers is understood by ALL people, whether they are simple or complicated, young or old.

Not if they are blind or deaf, etc. Jesus heals people before preaching to them. Those who don't want to be healed will not obviously get any understanding, no matter how much they are spoken to.

[Amigo]

Great, finally you give me straightforward answer. Now, this statement of yours contradict your earlier statement that God died. When God died for 2-3 days (? correct me if I'm wrong), creation did not perish, so this shows creation does not depend on God to exist. You have two statements that contradict each other, and this is a fundamental problem, not just a superficial one.

More pharisaism eh?!:) trying to trap me with questions and hoping to get anywhere by the path of malice?!
Remember the questions you refused to answer from the beginning? Answer them when you are honest. You wil not see any contradiction then.
Also I will not be answering anymore of your questions until you answer those questions. I think I have given you enough time and patience to answer them.

[Ramadhan]

Not if they are blind or deaf, etc. Jesus heals people before preaching to them. Those who don't want to be healed will not obviously get any understanding, no matter how much they are spoken to.

I think you underestimate the blind and the deaf. They might be blind and deaf but they still have brains to use. As long as you explain in simple language and basic common sense, even the blind and the deaf can understand.
By the way, who's the blind and the deaf in this forum? Are you that condescending to people? That's not very christian and jesus-like, and does not feel like inspired by holy spirit.

Now, while you were too busy making fun of us as blind and deaf, you must have missed this query of mine:

Quote Originally Posted by Amigo View Post Well, for a simple answer: Creation depends on God to exists

.

Great, finally you give me straightforward answer. Now, this statement of yours contradict your earlier statement that God died. When God died for 2-3 days (? correct me if I'm wrong), creation did not perish, so this shows creation does not depend on God to exist. You have two statements that contradict each other, and this is a fundamental problem, not just a superficial one.

Please don't be afraid to answer questions and address queries, you have so far been acting as a great christian speaker and representative in this forum.