what is ur opinion ?

[tigerkhan]

:sl:
there is high divorce ratio in west as compared to eastern countries.
so what are the reasons behind this? plz share ur opinion.
who is more responsible, men or women?

Plz be soft. its just we want to study/analyze the ground realities behind this fact without offending any culture or person.
Jazakallah o khair

[Who Am I?]

Well from what I have read, money is the number one cause of most martial disagreements.

[CosmicPathos]

Hmm. The ratio in "Eastern" countries is also rising. So its not a "West" situation anymore. Higher divorce rates seem to be a good thing, people are realizing that they can't live with their partners and hence they separate.

And Allah knows.

[tigerkhan]

well some logical reason in my mind.
1. in west there is no modesty as in east, so eastern men ususally satisfied with what they have. but in west i guess one reason maybe this non-modest culture in which men have chances to see many girls and that surely had a bad effect on his attention/devotion/contenment toward his wife.
2. in east women mostly dont work, so she is dependent financially on husband. therfore i see girls mostly compromise even a huby is little bit harsh.
3. there is more selfishness and materialism in west. as far as my knowledge ppl palys game for their interest and no passion for sacrifice for other. esp girls have high demands they never compromise on finanace or care issues.

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[tigerkhan]

Well from what I have read, money is the number one cause of most martial disagreements.

i cant understand, plz if u explain ur point bit more.

[ardianto]

Although not so high like in US or UK, divorce rate in Indonesia is the highest in Muslim countries and in Pacific Asia. Data from Religion Affair Office, around 70% initiative for divorce were came from wives.

[Who Am I?]

i cant understand, plz if u explain ur point bit more.

I'll see if I can.

Here in the USA, most marital disputes are related to money issues, budgeting for families and the like. The couple disagrees on how to spend money or one partner spends money on something that the other partner does not agree with. This disagreement is what eventually leads to divorce.

From my own experience, I can remember only one time where my parents (who are still married after 42 years) arguing was over money. I think they disagreed on how to spend for something.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

[PiousGirl_86]

All the posts are very valid points. Money is a big issue which has led to make martial troubles and ultimately break ups.

From my experiences, my ex husband was very obsessed with money and the spending of it. He had succumbed to the evils of money, he worshipped the stuff. When i feel pregnant, he did not want to take financial responsibility to take care and provide for me and the child, he saw it as a burden, he even asked for me to have an abortion, subhanallah. Now i know my experience is not why all marriages break down, but it is a main reason for some women, from all societies. There are selfish people only concerned about this material world and money and lack of belief in Allah, and that He will always provide as the Quran states: Do not slay your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them and for you (Qur'an 17:31).

Money is a the route of all evil. From my experiences and from hearing from people looking to marry, i know some girls demand high dowries and demand a house and car before marriage. They almost price themselves out of the market. The is no longer the belief that you will have to work hard to build a life together. As tigerkhan mentioned, many girls do not want to compromise and make the sacrifice, but this also goes for men too. With some men, because they also want a good 'celebrity' lifestyle, they are looking for their wife to have a good job and education to contribute and they almost forget that they have to provide as Islam teaches. They forget what income the wife earns, belongs to the wife and for her to spend as she wishes. Now if a couple struggles, then yes it is good to help out, but due to western influences Muslim men are expecting just that, a joint income therefore a good lifestyle will come of it. It is materialism most people are after, they live an excessive lifestyle.

People are no longer grateful for what they have and only want more. Our generation is a generation that has been blessed with the most then any of our parents and ancestors have ever had, and yet people are still never thankfully and they constantly expect and want more. - Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If the son of Adam possessed a valley full of gold he would want to have two valleys, yet his mouth will only be filled by earth. Allah turns towards those who turn in repentance."

Another major problem i find with martial breakdowns, are the interference of family members, i.e. parents and siblings. Again i speak from experience. I have personally experienced a family dictating what they expect from their sons. I do not know if girls get a similar experience. I have found since some Pakistanis require the wife to move in with the in laws and this is where trouble can start. From here husbands are not cooperating with their wives, but allow the interference of their parents and listen to their so called 'good' opinions, without realising that the parents may even be using them for their own benefits sometimes. Parents dictating how they spend their income, where they may choose to live, who will look after their children, even whether the girl should be working, etc. Many girls become unhappy and often feel they are lacking in privacy and say in their OWN marriage and ultimately lacking of respect. It is a right for a wife to live wherever she wants but some do not allow it as it is a requirement from their parents (due to culture brainwashing) to stay at home for a 'little longer', mainly due to financial reasons. Many can deny this happens but i have physically seen and experienced this, so i would not be lying in my statement. It is one thing to obey and respect your parents yes, but nobody should think they own their children, which i see too often among such communities. Having children is a privilege and blessing form Allah, not a right. It is one thing to raise your children to be good members of society, but not dictate their adult lives, i mean are they that incapable to decide their finances, lifestyle and having a marriage?

I also agree that temptation can cause a marriage to breakdown. Because we mix so freely in the west, and so it is easy to commit zina for some who may have weak character. There are men and women who are not modest in their dress/nature and it provides a temptation. With sexual images freely opposed everywhere and music conveying the same message, is is hard to run from this and so if one is weak they feel that something is always better around the corner, they are never satisfied. everyone is constantly comparing each other. It is all about physical pleasure and not looking beyond the fact that beauty and image will fade and Deen and a growing love is ever lasting. Furthermore, everyone is expecting Mr and Mrs Perfect. What is funny is they themselves are not perfect but they are buying into an idealisation of a type of man or woman they want, hence when you marry that person you have idealised, the marriage can breakdown as you have built them up to be what they are not. You can become disappointed.

I am sure their are more, reasons but i have picked the main ones.

[kingkong]

PiousGirl I think you have a serious issue with men, I didn't bother to read your entire post because the first half contained so many false and baseless generalisations.

Since when do men want their women to earn so they can live a life of luxury? All of my friends, every single one of them does not have a wife who works and we are in the west so where does your baseless statement about what men want come from? Just because your husband was like that doesn't mean all men are like that.

For the record, did you know the Prophet PBUH said more women are in hell than men.

It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allaah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allaah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1052)

So based on what the Prophet said, women are more demaning and ungrateful than men.

I wish the sisters would stop with these baseless and sexist generalisations. When anyone does it, you don't hear the end of it, but when a sister does it, it's ok?

[SAKER]

In the past women especially used to keep silent toward abuse ...in order to keep their men...Women didn ´t know well their rightS ..


but now women have more conscience...



I m essentially talking in the base of Arabian culture or background ....

[DonTheWise]

To be honest I think in the West there are more divorces because of:

----More freedom to divorce
----Less laws discouraging divorce
----Marriage at an earlier stage.

More freedom to divorce meaning over at the west less people are Muslim which means less abide by the rules and regulations of islam druing divorce. So a muslim man would be more discouraged to divorce his wife because he might face the consequences. Another thing is that some marry of their parents; as in their parents set them up with a bride or a groom and they get married. This in some cases, although not all, discourages the groom or bride from divorce because of political, social or family ties.

In the West there less laws that discourage men and women from divorce. In fact, people divorce almost always because they want a sum of money granted to them because of the divorce. ( Could someone tell me what that is called?)

As everyone knows people marry at younger ages over at the US, and that usually results in a divorce when the couple realises what a huge mistake it was. More marriages=More divorces.

[ardianto]

In the West there less laws that discourage men and women from divorce. In fact, people divorce almost always because they want a sum of money granted to them because of the divorce. ( Could someone tell me what that is called?)

West ? do you mean in US ?.

I know about if from Hollywood movies. One of those movies is "Liar Liar" (Jim Carrey)

[DonTheWise]

I know the West contains not only the US but also most of Europe and Canada. I wanted to know what it's called when you have a divorce in the West and you get money for it...

[ardianto]

I know the West contains not only the US but also most of Europe and Canada. I wanted to know what it's called when you have a divorce in the West and you get money for it...

Depend on the place and language. In Indonesia it's called "Gono-gini", this is treasure that shared between wife and husband when they get divorced.

If I am not wrong, in California, a wife get a half of the husband treasure when she get divorced. There are some people who live in US here, I hope they can tell you what's the name of this "treasure sharing when divorced".

[Perseveranze]

... the East will eventually imitate the west anyways, Hadiths have made that clear.

[GuestFellow]

... the East will eventually imitate the west anyways, Hadiths have made that clear.

Salaam,

Can you please post the Hadiths? I too noticed countries like India adopting western values.

[Alpha Dude]

In the West there less laws that discourage men and women from divorce. In fact, people divorce almost always because they want a sum of money granted to them because of the divorce. ( Could someone tell me what that is called?)

I think it's called alimony.

[Who Am I?]

Pre-nuptual agreement?

Speaking of societal changes, I can remember as a kid in the early 1980's and divorce was still a scandalous affair. People did it, but nobody really talked about it. Nowadays it's rare to find a couple that has never been divorced.

[CosmicPathos]

All the posts are very valid points. Money is a big issue which has led to make martial troubles and ultimately break ups.

From my experiences, my ex husband was very obsessed with money and the spending of it. He had succumbed to the evils of money, he worshipped the stuff. When i feel pregnant, he did not want to take financial responsibility to take care and provide for me and the child, he saw it as a burden, he even asked for me to have an abortion, subhanallah. Now i know my experience is not why all marriages break down, but it is a main reason for some women, from all societies. There are selfish people only concerned about this material world and money and lack of belief in Allah, and that He will always provide as the Quran states: Do not slay your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them and for you (Qur'an 17:31).

Money is a the route of all evil. From my experiences and from hearing from people looking to marry, i know some girls demand high dowries and demand a house and car before marriage. They almost price themselves out of the market. The is no longer the belief that you will have to work hard to build a life together. As tigerkhan mentioned, many girls do not want to compromise and make the sacrifice, but this also goes for men too. With some men, because they also want a good 'celebrity' lifestyle, they are looking for their wife to have a good job and education to contribute and they almost forget that they have to provide as Islam teaches. They forget what income the wife earns, belongs to the wife and for her to spend as she wishes. Now if a couple struggles, then yes it is good to help out, but due to western influences Muslim men are expecting just that, a joint income therefore a good lifestyle will come of it. It is materialism most people are after, they live an excessive lifestyle.

People are no longer grateful for what they have and only want more. Our generation is a generation that has been blessed with the most then any of our parents and ancestors have ever had, and yet people are still never thankfully and they constantly expect and want more. - Ibn 'Abbas reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If the son of Adam possessed a valley full of gold he would want to have two valleys, yet his mouth will only be filled by earth. Allah turns towards those who turn in repentance."

Another major problem i find with martial breakdowns, are the interference of family members, i.e. parents and siblings. Again i speak from experience. I have personally experienced a family dictating what they expect from their sons. I do not know if girls get a similar experience. I have found since some Pakistanis require the wife to move in with the in laws and this is where trouble can start. From here husbands are not cooperating with their wives, but allow the interference of their parents and listen to their so called 'good' opinions, without realising that the parents may even be using them for their own benefits sometimes. Parents dictating how they spend their income, where they may choose to live, who will look after their children, even whether the girl should be working, etc. Many girls become unhappy and often feel they are lacking in privacy and say in their OWN marriage and ultimately lacking of respect. It is a right for a wife to live wherever she wants but some do not allow it as it is a requirement from their parents (due to culture brainwashing) to stay at home for a 'little longer', mainly due to financial reasons. Many can deny this happens but i have physically seen and experienced this, so i would not be lying in my statement. It is one thing to obey and respect your parents yes, but nobody should think they own their children, which i see too often among such communities. Having children is a privilege and blessing form Allah, not a right. It is one thing to raise your children to be good members of society, but not dictate their adult lives, i mean are they that incapable to decide their finances, lifestyle and having a marriage?

I also agree that temptation can cause a marriage to breakdown. Because we mix so freely in the west, and so it is easy to commit zina for some who may have weak character. There are men and women who are not modest in their dress/nature and it provides a temptation. With sexual images freely opposed everywhere and music conveying the same message, is is hard to run from this and so if one is weak they feel that something is always better around the corner, they are never satisfied. everyone is constantly comparing each other. It is all about physical pleasure and not looking beyond the fact that beauty and image will fade and Deen and a growing love is ever lasting. Furthermore, everyone is expecting Mr and Mrs Perfect. What is funny is they themselves are not perfect but they are buying into an idealisation of a type of man or woman they want, hence when you marry that person you have idealised, the marriage can breakdown as you have built them up to be what they are not. You can become disappointed.

I am sure their are more, reasons but i have picked the main ones.

No need to start picking on Pakistanis. Actually most Pakistanis require that. It is part of their culture. It is also a part of Indian culture. It is a also a part of Afghani culture. It is also a part of Bengali culture. It is also a part of Kashmiri culture. It is also a part of Balochi culture. It is also a part of Sindhi culture. Duh, Pakistanis are the root of all evil, eh.

Both husband and wife agree, before marriage, that they will be living with his parents. If she does not like it, she has the full freedom to call off the marriage.

[Cabdullahi]

In a world without pornography, where a man's wife is the only woman he would typically see in sexual situations, this process of conditioning would probably serve to make him more turned on by her particular features and habits, thus strengthening his attraction to her even as her body changes with age. In our highly sexualized western culture where a man sees many sexualized images of other women, sexual cues are created that have little or nothing to do with a man's wife, and are more likely to detract from the marriage relationship.

.......................

[سيف الله]

Salaam

I think in eastern and Islamic culture the institution of family is considered sacred, we have a more communitarian ethic. Not so much in western societies particularly since the cultural revolution of the 1960s which led to the rise of individualism, consumerism, materialism at the expense of traditional values and institutions like marriage. These factors among many other has led to a major breakdown in the family unit, with serious consequences. For example:

Consequences of the Breakdown of Marriage and Family (UK)

http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...family-uk.html

Having said that there are variations within western societies eg. Catholics place immense importance on family and marriage

Sometimes relationship fails, we have to accept that but we shouldn't say that's a good thing and I hope we as a community maintain the importance and sanctity of family and marriage. Consequences are too dire to think about.

[Rhubarb Tart]

@Mad Scientist She said some and clearly expressed it was based on her experience.

Also, it is not as simple as wife and husband agrees with it when you take societal and family pressure into account. Not that I am against the practice...

And this thread is creating fitna.

So this is what I gather what the purpose of this thread is:
East VS West
Female VS male
My point is clearly proven when some poster ignores the word some when another poster expresses her view and start arguing and posting hadith about most people in hell are women.

[Perseveranze]

Salaam,

Can you please post the Hadiths? I too noticed countries like India adopting western values.

The prophet (S.A.W.) said, "You will surely follow the ways, steps, or traditions of those who came before you, span by span and yard by yard (very closely) even if they entered a lizard's hole you will enter it." The companions asked, "Oh prophet, you mean the Jews and Christians?" so he answered, "Who else!" [Reported by Imam Bukhari]

The second hadith is "He is not one of us, he who imitates others. Do not imitate either the Jews or the Christians." [Reported by ImamsTermithy & Abu-Dawd]The third hadith is "If one imitates another nation he will be from them." [Reported by Imam Abu-Dawd]

There's others too, but can't find atm.

[CosmicPathos]

@Mad Scientist She said some and clearly expressed it was based on her experience.

Also, it is not as simple as wife and husband agrees with it when you take societal and family pressure into account. Not that I am against the practice...

And this thread is creating fitna.

So this is what I gather what the purpose of this thread is:
East VS West
Female VS male
My point is clearly proven when some poster ignores the word some when another poster expresses her view and start arguing and posting hadith about most people in hell are women.

Well that means its high time for her to broaden her experiences of this world and all the people in it.

[Ramadhan]

To be honest I think in the West there are more divorces because of: ----More freedom to divorce ----Less laws discouraging divorce ----Marriage at an earlier stage. More freedom to divorce meaning over at the west less people are Muslim which means less abide by the rules and regulations of islam druing divorce. So a muslim man would be more discouraged to divorce his wife because he might face the consequences. Another thing is that some marry of their parents; as in their parents set them up with a bride or a groom and they get married. This in some cases, although not all, discourages the groom or bride from divorce because of political, social or family ties. In the West there less laws that discourage men and women from divorce. In fact, people divorce almost always because they want a sum of money granted to them because of the divorce. ( Could someone tell me what that is called?) As everyone knows people marry at younger ages over at the US, and that usually results in a divorce when the couple realises what a huge mistake it was. More marriages=More divorces.

You are really talking non sense and without evidence.
You are speaking of "the rules and regulations of islam druing divorce", do you really have any idea how divorce process work in Islam?
I think you mixed up between Islam and Roman catholic.

In fact, divorce procedure in Islam is the easiest, while the divorce process in the western countries can go on for years because of court proceedings related to the wealth split up etc.

Whataver the explanation of the diffferences in divorce rates between western and muslim countries, it is definitely NOT because of "divorce rules and regulations in Islam".

[tigerkhan]

dear respected members, thanks alot for ur replies. that are really helping esp just a guy, ardianto, pious_girl86, don the wise and.....
i request u all plz be on topic and be gentle. we are not here to offend any culture or person. no1 culture or person is perfect but we have to learn and struggle for perfection.
jazak allah o khair.

[Ramadhan]

As everyone knows people marry at younger ages over at the US, and that usually results in a divorce when the couple realises what a huge mistake it was. More marriages=More divorces.

I don't know what the average age of first marriage in the US, but I am sure it is higher than average age for first marriage in the largest muslim country, Indonesia.
So again, this is not the explanation why divorce rates in the US is higher than those in the muslims countries.

I think this explanation by Junon makes more sense:

I think in eastern and Islamic culture the institution of family is considered sacred, we have a more communitarian ethic. Not so much in western societies particularly since the cultural revolution of the 1960s which led to the rise of individualism, consumerism, materialism at the expense of traditional values and institutions like marriage. These factors among many other has led to a major breakdown in the family unit, with serious consequences. For example:

[May Ayob]

Salaam- Peace be to all.

this is a very good topic
I honestly belive that there are many many factors into this terrible ending of marriages , i'll list out some of the things from my opinion:
1. To much expectations for the spouse either physically , materialisiticly or the way they treat you: it is very sad and dissapointing that we have sometype of emptiness inside of us , and we expect every thing from that person not putting in mind that they are a human being , so we want them to please us in every way , this goes for both men and women , we also tend to forget about character which is the most important thing and most of us only know about marriage from western and even eastern movies and media.
2.The money play a big factor because both the man and the woman belive that the marriage is not going to be as ideal as they imagine unless they have money for vacations and what not , as mentioned before the lack of even knowing what getting married means , where did all the values of sharing your life and sacrificing for the other persons wellbeing and happiness.
3. Stereotypes mainly from Tv series ( for the female / sometimes the male as well) that the inlwas are your number one enemies and they are who are going to cause you problems in your marriage / this is not true and honestly i belive that if you do love the person who is your spouse as you claim the it is a priority to share the same feelings for his/her family there should be mutual respect and affection between both parties and they have to treat each other in a good way just as islam has prescribed.
4. The free mixing and mingling we have in BOTH socities today is one of the major reasons why many people can't seem to live with each other as spouses , the lack of trust/ selfish jealousy and many other disease that can poisine the marriage , which can also lead to if not horrific crimes against both parties. yes trust is abig issue for both a man can freely mingle with women in his youth but SubhanAllah when you ask him about his future wife he's looking for he wants a pure woman who never or rarley looks and speaks to other men i mean i'm sorry but what did he do and what effort did he pay to deserve this? i think this is not really fair.
5. Both parties thinking that they can own each other and also the lack of respect for privacy , fetching the spouse's bags and personal thing and what not can be another intimidating thing that causes or may lead to a divorce.
6. when the woman doesnt really lkove the man and she is inlone with another but the former has big wealth and she knows that she is getting ahlf he's property after divorce so she makes up every reason..

[Who Am I?]

I don't know what the average age of first marriage in the US, but I am sure it is higher than average age for first marriage in the largest muslim country, Indonesia.
So again, this is not the explanation why divorce rates in the US is higher than those in the muslims countries.

From Wikipedia (take that for what it's worth):

United States: 28.4 for men, 26.5 for women. (2009)

[ardianto]

2.The money play a big factor because both the man and the woman belive that the marriage is not going to be as ideal as they imagine unless they have money for vacations and what not , as mentioned before the lack of even knowing what getting married means , where did all the values of sharing your life and sacrificing for the other persons wellbeing and happiness.

From what I found in my place, the big factor is not the husband's income, but the husband's responsibility to gain an income. A wife who has poor husband who work, never request divorce (except some wives who have "blind by dunya). But if the husband is lazy to make money, it will becomes a big factor that motivate the wife to request divorce. Many divorce cases in my place were caused by the husband's laziness.

[AishaRayann]

I think alot of it has to do with

1)money
2)addictions (alcohol,drugs,sex,porn,shopping.etc)
3)abuse (physical violence,emotional abuse,sexual abuse,etc)

[May Ayob]

From what I found in my place, the big factor is not the husband's income, but the husband's responsibility to gain an income. A wife who has poor husband who work, never request divorce (except some wives who have "blind by dunya). But if the husband is lazy to make money, it will becomes a big factor that motivate the wife to request divorce. Many divorce cases in my place were caused by the husband's laziness.

Salaam Bro

You live in Indonesia , i think there are many good brought up girls/women that have respect for family values but speaking abroad that's not how things are every where with all the media today all what many people are running after today is the money because they think it will bring them happiness and things like that but you are correct and i agree with you responsibilty is another big issue which is just as important if not more important.

Salaam

[Ramadhan]

From Wikipedia (take that for what it's worth): United States: 28.4 for men, 26.5 for women. (2009)

Thanks.
That's not as young as Donthewise make it out to be, and in fact those age are olders than first time marriages in Indonesia.
Here's the data for Indonesia, female: 23.2 male: 26.9
source: http://www.datastatistik-indonesia.c...41/Itemid,168/

Also keep in mind that many marriages in the rural areas in Indonesia are not registered at civil state registration because they can't pay the costs, and those marriages are usually young marriages. Hence the actual ages for first time marriages in Indonesia is actually lower than the statistics show.

[Who Am I?]

Thanks.
That's not as young as Donthewise make it out to be, and in fact those age are olders than first time marriages in Indonesia.
Here's the data for Indonesia, female: 23.2 male: 26.9
source: http://www.datastatistik-indonesia.c...41/Itemid,168/

Also keep in mind that many marriages in the rural areas in Indonesia are not registered at civil state registration because they can't pay the costs, and those marriages are usually young marriages. Hence the actual ages for first time marriages in Indonesia is actually lower than the statistics show.

I destroy both of those figures as I am 35 and never married. :D I do know a few of my old high school friends that were married at 18, 19, 20 years old. Many of them are now divorced.

The unofficial Indonesian figures are a lot like the early 20th century US. I've read stories of girls especially getting married at 16 or 17. Of course, a lot of people back then didn't even finish high school and certainly didn't attend university, which pretty much everyone does these days.

[ardianto]

Salaam Bro

You live in Indonesia , i think there are many good brought up girls/women that have respect for family values but speaking abroad that's not how things are every where with all the media today all what many people are running after today is the money because they think it will bring them happiness and things like that but you are correct and i agree with you responsibilty is another big issue which is just as important if not more important.

Salaam

Assalamualaikum sister

Like I said in another thread, different place, different culture. In Indonesia, wealth is important factor to start a marriage. A rich guy is easier to get a wife than poor guy. But wealth is not main factor in divorce cases. There are wives who request divorce just because their husbands are poor and they want to seek rich husband, but the number of divorce cases that caused by poverty like this is not significant if compared by number of divorce cases that caused the husband laziness.

Same like in other places, in Indonesia the husband's duty is making money for family, and the wife's duty is managed that money and managed the home. But the wife can work to make money if the husband's income is not enough. Many wives in Indonesia also work to make money. Unfortunately -and I don't know why- there are husband who are going lazy, they do not seek a job, or even stop working, and spend their times to having fun with money from their wives.

Do you know sister, divorce rate in Indonesia is the highest in all Muslim countries, which 70% of divorce are requested by the wives. The most common reason to divorce are the husband married again without permission from the wife, and domestic violence. But from what I know, many domestic violence cases in Indonesia back grounded by the husband laziness. The wife work hard outside the home while the husband spend his only for having fun. When the wife angry and ask the husband responsibility, the husband beat the wife.

[May Ayob]

Do you know sister, divorce rate in Indonesia is the highest in all Muslim countries, which 70% of divorce are requested by the wives. The most common reason to divorce are the husband married again without permission from the wife, and domestic violence. But from what I know, many domestic violence cases in Indonesia back grounded by the husband laziness. The wife work hard outside the home while the husband spend his only for having fun. When the wife angry and ask the husband responsibility, the husband beat the wife.

Thank you for your reply - well both seem like valid reasons for me :)

[PiousGirl_86]

Well that means its high time for her to broaden her experiences of this world and all the people in it.

Mad_scientist and kingkong your comments were very rude and totally uncalled for. I see some people are offended by my observations. I was merely expressing my opinions based on my experiences. I have a board experiences of the world thank you very much, so i am not ignorant. I am not ignorant to the fact that it is mainly eastern cultures that have these cultural problems. I was only talking about my experiences form living within that community. I won't just lie and say what i hear from hearsay about other cultures, wouldn't that be wrong of me. I am well aware that Indians, Arabs, Afghanis, etc will impose their cultures onto their children. What i was trying to explain is, why can't people try to follow the sunnah of Islam and not their culture. I know children what to please their parents. When one or both are pleasing their parents and not each other, then a marriage can fail. Stand up and correct the wrongs of a cultural teaching and make it right. What happened to discussing your problems with one another without family involvement. Do not stick your head in the sand and think everything will be fine. On the day of judgement you are only accountable for your own actions, and if one is having parents or anyone else for that matter dictating something in your marriage or life that appears to be wrong you can't shift blame on that day, and Allah knows best.

Furthermore, kingkong i know of the hadith you are talking about very well. Now i know for one that I was by no means ungrateful to my ex husband. I put a lot of effort into making my marriage work, but when someone is selfish and self centred into their own reality then you cannot change that. I have no regrets whatsoever for my divorce as i know and Allah knows, i worked hard and compromised a lot and got absolutely nothing back. I know what is reasonable, i am not materialistic and i am not blinded by this dunya. Do not judge every marriage and think that the woman is at fault all the time. I am very well aware that there are some woman who demand a lot. I think that is wrong and unreasonable. But do not dare for one moment judge all to be the same. every divorce has individual reasons for failure. Only Allah will judge. I did say SOME men, not all. Let me explain, when i was looking to marry i had spoken to some men that were concerned about the type of job i had and what type of career i was going into. When i enquired further is was because their were aiming for a particular lifestyle. Some were actually saying they wanted their 2 holidays a year and large house, for example, (mind you these were successful men). Do not be ignorant and think that all Muslim men (and women) know their Islam and duties for one another. I am sure you have met your fair share. Some have actually said to me, that the sunnah was only at the time of the Prophet (saw) and times have changed, so the sunnah does not stick in this day and age, we are living in modern times. I couldn't believe my ears when i heard this from the few i spoke to. I know if a couple follow the sunnah and Quran then a marriage can always work. I do not have an issue with men, none whatsoever. My concern is, how much some Muslims do not know or want to know about their duties or even the sunnah. Fortunately, I have met some very good brothers who do, mashallah. Unfortunately, Islamic education is not always placed as high as academic education in some cases.

[Salahudeen]

I think it has to do with people getting bored and wanting something/someone new. A man goes out on the street and see's all these beautiful women walking around in front of him so when he goes home his wife eventually looks very average to him and not so special because his heart has been exposed to all these different beautiful women. And he doesn't feel content with what he has anymore.

I think this is also part of the wisdom of the niqaab, if every woman wore niqaab a man would go home feeling as if he is the luckiest man alive with the most beautiful wife because she's all he knows. And he would feel happy with what he has because he's not been exposed to all these different women who incite desires and passions within him.

[Who Am I?]

I think it has to do with people getting bored and wanting something/someone new. A man goes out on the street and see's all these beautiful women walking around in front of him so when he goes home his wife eventually looks very average to him and not so special because his heart has been exposed to all these different beautiful women. And he doesn't feel content with what he has anymore.

I think this is also part of the wisdom of the niqaab, if every woman wore niqaab a man would go home feeling as if he is the luckiest man alive with the most beautiful wife because she's all he knows. And he would feel happy with what he has because he's not been exposed to all these different women who incite desires and passions within him.

Reminds me of something that I talked to the brother about yesterday. Even a woman with hijab can be attractive and you can still think bad thoughts about her. Allah knows I have had my share of bad thoughts about women. I am single and lonely and it sucks sometimes, and I think about things I shouldn't. It's one thing to have thoughts, but another to act on them entirely. Inshallah, I don't act on my thoughts. We as men are visual; we're attracted to how a woman looks, so there is some truth to what you say.

This is why I have distanced myself as much as possible from women for the time being. I don't need that distraction right now. This is about my relationship with Allah and becoming who I was meant to be.

[May Ayob]

was merely expressing my opinions based on my experiences. I have a board experiences of the world thank you very much, so i am not ignorant. I am not ignorant to the fact that it is mainly eastern cultures that have these cultural problems. I was only talking about my experiences form living within that community.

Salaam sis , No you are not ignorant but that's definately how they are going to make you feel - probably because your a female - i dont know why but i have the impression that Mad_scientist doesnt really have much respect for females - sorry maybe its not true but that's what i understood.

Salaam

[al yunan]

Salam sister May Ayob,

I'll tell you a funny statistic I read some time ago, the number one reason for divorce in Egypt is "husband beating".
Maybe brother Mad scientist get lucky with that type of wife backed by a half a dozen angry live in brothers to boot.
The reality is that very few Arab women get pushed around and lets never forget mother dearest, the rest is talk and hot air.

Masalam

[May Ayob]

Salam sister May Ayob, I'll tell you a funny statistic I read some time ago, the number one reason for divorce in Egypt is "husband beating". Maybe brother Mad scientist get lucky with that type of wife backed by a half a dozen angry live in brothers to boot. The reality is that very few Arab women get pushed around and lets never forget mother dearest, the rest is talk and hot air. Masalam

Waalaikum Asalaam

Really?? wow i didnt know i guess then he might be suffering from these types of issue- i hope not though. I think Husband beating is getting more popular in these areas women in there want revenge for a the years of pain and suffer - just kidding.
I can now say i understand Mad_scientists aggressive responses more, but what doesnt make sense to me is that i thought i read in another thread- Female Foeticide- to be specific that He- i mean Mad_scientist - is an arab feminist sound kind of ironic to me.

I hope he doesnt count this as backbitting or gossiping astaghfiru Allah

Salaam

[De-TeR-mIn-Ed]

i actually think people in the east just...ignore it...or refuse to admit there's a problem... whereas in the west...people are becoming very intolerable..easily fed-up and unwilling to work for it...

[S.B.]

In most western countries, the Individual is the unit of society. People think on their own terms as individuals. In most eastern countries, family is the unit of the society. People grow up in joint families and live together in different roles. Family keeps people together. In west, individuals value their personal freedom of choice over anyone's interference. Modesty is not something ingrained in east, neither are westerners by definition immodest. People in the east are as materialistic as their western counterparts, and men are just men, in east or west.

It is not Islamic knowledge or faith in islam which keeps families together in the east. Most often it is the culture which has grown over the centuries around Islam. So yes, Islam is most definitely a contributing factor towards family stability as it gives immense importance to a healthy family as the cornerstone of a successful society and nation.

[Riana17]

Hmmmmmm, Kuwait is second to highest in the world....

[Who Am I?]

In most western countries, the Individual is the unit of society. People think on their own terms as individuals. In most eastern countries, family is the unit of the society. People grow up in joint families and live together in different roles. Family keeps people together. In west, individuals value their personal freedom of choice over anyone's interference. Modesty is not something ingrained in east, neither are westerners by definition immodest. People in the east are as materialistic as their western counterparts, and men are just men, in east or west.

It is not Islamic knowledge or faith in islam which keeps families together in the east. Most often it is the culture which has grown over the centuries around Islam. So yes, Islam is most definitely a contributing factor towards family stability as it gives immense importance to a healthy family as the cornerstone of a successful society and nation.

This.

I was recently talking to a friend of mine that is really knowledgable about Japanese culture and over there, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. They place more emphasis on following rules and doing what is best for the community rather than do what is best for yourself like we do in individualistic Western society.

[DonTheWise]

You are really talking non sense and without evidence.
You are speaking of "the rules and regulations of islam druing divorce", do you really have any idea how divorce process work in Islam?
I think you mixed up between Islam and Roman catholic.

In fact, divorce procedure in Islam is the easiest, while the divorce process in the western countries can go on for years because of court proceedings related to the wealth split up etc.

Whataver the explanation of the diffferences in divorce rates between western and muslim countries, it is definitely NOT because of "divorce rules and regulations in Islam".

I said I THINK, so I asked myself 'maybe' there were obligations, I wasn't sure. I'm not muslim, did you ever think of that possibiliy?
No need to be over-protective.

[flowergarden]

Salaam,

I feel that the reason for the high rates are because of dating and the man and women get bored of eachother fast so they don't get along as great anymore any decide to quit. Sometimes I feel some couples rush into marriage and fall. I know a lot of divorces are caused because of cheating.... so I guess it is because of clashing cultures.