truthseeker63's Corner

[truthseeker63]

I have read that photo taking and filming and cameras is not allowed in Islam but are there exceptions to this can photos be taken for educational reasons ?

[Karl]

:sl:

Just want to confirm one point before continuing with this discussion. This question is directed to Karl. Of course, this question can also be posed in a PM but since Karl has expressed himself openly in this thread, I think it is appropriate to ask Karl to post his answer here. My question is:

To Karl,

Do you or do you not believe that all human beings are descended from Adam and Eve?

A very simple question. Looking forward to a very simple answer.

No.
You must search back to the source of the story. The ancient pagans used to believe that everything was made of the four elements air, fire, water, and earth. People being made of the earth (Adam). The Gods fashioned people from earth. Eve was introduced a long time later in the story.
Think about it, if God is almighty and creator of the universe why would He only make two people when He makes multitudes of everything else?

[Ali Mujahidin]

No.
You must search back to the source of the story. The ancient pagans used to believe that everything was made of the four elements air, fire, water, and earth. People being made of the earth (Adam). The Gods fashioned people from earth. Eve was introduced a long time later in the story.
Think about it, if God is almighty and creator of the universe why would He only make two people when He makes multitudes of everything else?

:sl:

Good. Now that we have settled that question conclusively, we can continue our discussion without any further doubts about where you stand with regards to the Holy Quran.

The natural question that follows upon your question is:

Why can't Allah create only Adam and Eve as the forefather (and foremother) of all human beings?

Do you know what are the Six Articles of Faith? Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)#The_6_Articles_of_Faith

[Salahudeen]

There's a difference of opinion on it I think, some scholars say it's forbidden to take pictures of people or any living thing and others say it's ok. So you will find people telling you two different rulings depending on which scholar they follow.

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[Karl]

:sl:

Good. Now that we have settled that question conclusively, we can continue our discussion without any further doubts about where you stand with regards to the Holy Quran.

The natural question that follows upon your question is:

Why can't Allah create only Adam and Eve as the forefather (and foremother) of all human beings?

Do you know what are the Six Articles of Faith? Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iman_(concept)#The_6_Articles_of_Faith

Answer to first question. The gene pool would be far too small to populate the entire planet in a totally incestuous way. Also if they hypothetically could, everyone would look very similar as if like one huge family. People would look roughly all the same, but the plain fact is they don't.
Answer to next question. I know the six articles of faith, what has that got to do with Adam and Eve.
BTW I wouldn't trust Wikipedia it is not an official Islamic source.

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

Now we are getting somewhere. What do you think then is/are the first ancestor/ancestors of all the human beings on this planet now? A link to your source of reference would be useful.

One of the Articles of Faith states that a Muslim believes in the holy books revealed to the prophets of Allah. One of these holy books is the Holy Quran. One of the things stated in the Holy Quran is the creation of Adam. That is the connection between the Six Articles of Faith and Adam. If the connection is still not clear to you, please say so and I will try to explain again.

When I read the Wikipedia entry about the Six Articles of Faith, I saw that there were references to the relevant verses in the Holy Quran. I consider the Holy Quran to be an official Islamic source. How about you? Do you or do you not consider the Holy Quran to be an official Islamic source?

[truthseeker63]

I have seen on tv Muslims holding photos of Bin Laden and Bin Laden did allow himself to be filmed by cameras and I have heard Muslims say they have seen photos of the people killed in Iraq therefor I want to know if photos can be used for educational reasons does the Quran and or the Hadith say anything about this thank you ?

Exclusive Osama (Usama) bin Laden "US threats" - YouTube

Exclusive Osama (Usama) bin Laden "US threats"

The first ever TV interview with Osama (Usama) bin Laden. Conducted in 1997 by Peter Bergen and Peter Arnett. The history and origins of his hatred for the US.
Photographer: Peter Jouvenal

[Karl]

:sl:

Now we are getting somewhere. What do you think then is/are the first ancestor/ancestors of all the human beings on this planet now? A link to your source of reference would be useful.

One of the Articles of Faith states that a Muslim believes in the holy books revealed to the prophets of Allah. One of these holy books is the Holy Quran. One of the things stated in the Holy Quran is the creation of Adam. That is the connection between the Six Articles of Faith and Adam. If the connection is still not clear to you, please say so and I will try to explain again.

When I read the Wikipedia entry about the Six Articles of Faith, I saw that there were references to the relevant verses in the Holy Quran. I consider the Holy Quran to be an official Islamic source. How about you? Do you or do you not consider the Holy Quran to be an official Islamic source?

Sorry I don't know who the first ancestors were or when or where. No one knows the answer to that one. They can believe in all sorts of things but they cannot know for sure. This planet is constantly destroying and remaking it's surface and has been bombarded by asteroids from time to time so you can only get evidence and knowledge scientifically from a relitively short time ago.
BTW it's called the Noble Quran, your getting mixed up with the Holy Bible.
I said before that the Quran has metaphors and parables. And so has the Bible, Torah and old pagan sources all going back to year dot. And as I said I do not take the Adam and Eve story literally. Yes the Noble Quran is the (official) book of the Muslims.

[truthseeker63]

How comes Islam/Muslims allows photos drawings or art of non living things but photos of living beings with a soul like Humans is not allowed what is the difference both are the creation of God/Allah right ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam

[Salahudeen]

Brother as I mentioned the scholars of Islam differed over this issue, you see many sheikhs in pictures, some of them even have a picture of themselves as their profile picture on FB, that's because they follow the opinion that photographs aren't haraam.

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

Ah, so the plot thickens. You do not take the Holy Quran literally (fyi I have never confused the Holy Quran with the Holy Bible and I have never confused the Holy Bible with the Kitab Injil). So do you or do you not take the commandment to perform solah five times a day literally? Or perhaps you have scientific validation that it is true that Allah has commanded us to perform solah fives times a day? Or perhaps you have scientific evidence to the contrary?

[ardianto]

If IB admins hold opinion that prohibit photos and videos, no one can insert photo or video here. :p

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum;

do you keep Bin Laden as role model of muslim (as if he kept photos or not)? Why not trust at the first place to scholars?

[Karl]

:sl:

Ah, so the plot thickens. You do not take the Holy Quran literally (fyi I have never confused the Holy Quran with the Holy Bible and I have never confused the Holy Bible with the Kitab Injil). So do you or do you not take the commandment to perform solah five times a day literally? Or perhaps you have scientific validation that it is true that Allah has commanded us to perform solah fives times a day? Or perhaps you have scientific evidence to the contrary?

It's called the Noble Quran.
This is off topic talking of the prayers but you must remember Allah gives people free will they can therefore pray as much as they like, the more the better of course. The main purpose of prayer is not to glorify God all day but to take your mind off your own petty problems. To contemplate the greatness of Allah and creation and to think of others, all life out there etc, to seek inner peace.

[Ali Mujahidin]

The main purpose of prayer is not to glorify God all day but to take your mind off your own petty problems.

:sl:

Very interesting observation. Did you get that from the Holy/Noble Quran or do you have other official Muslim resources, too? If you have other official/unofficial resources for information on Islam, please post a link/links so that I can learn about it, too.

[Tyrion]

It's called the Noble Quran.

Nope. It's called the Quran. Other adjectives can be added to it though (like with most nouns...) so we can get "The Noble Quran", or a number of other things like "The Glorious Quran", or "The Holy Quran", etc... The Quran itself swears by "Al-Quran al-Hakeem" which would translate to "The wise Quran" (Surah Ya-Sin, verse 2)

[Ramadhan]

Nope. It's called the Quran. Other adjectives can be added to it though (like with most nouns...) so we can get "The Noble Quran", or a number of other things like "The Glorious Quran", or "The Holy Quran", etc... The Quran itself swears by "Al-Quran al-Hakeem" which would translate to "The wise Quran" (Surah Ya-Sin, verse 2)

Yes, Allah SWT also refer to Al Qur'an as Al Furqon (the Criterion).

I am advising Karl to go back and study Al Qur'an before he spreads more fitna.

[User29123]

I have read that photo taking and filming and cameras is not allowed in Islam but are there exceptions to this can photos be taken for educational reasons ?

Yes photos can be used for education even drawing, you can film/draw anything except for living breathing things. (animals/humans)

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

Did you get to see the Imam last week, and how did you get on?

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

[Karl]

Nope. It's called the Quran. Other adjectives can be added to it though (like with most nouns...) so we can get "The Noble Quran", or a number of other things like "The Glorious Quran", or "The Holy Quran", etc... The Quran itself swears by "Al-Quran al-Hakeem" which would translate to "The wise Quran" (Surah Ya-Sin, verse 2)

Thankyou for the info.
I read a Saudi publication with attached Hadiths and explanations and backgrounds of the texts. It was called the Noble Quran in English and some Aribic writing on the cover also, but I can only make out the Latin alphabet.

[Karl]

:sl:

Very interesting observation. Did you get that from the Holy/Noble Quran or do you have other official Muslim resources, too? If you have other official/unofficial resources for information on Islam, please post a link/links so that I can learn about it, too.

It was probably somrwhere in my Saudi publication, sorry I have not got it on me. It was not part of the Quran though.

[Karl]

Yes, Allah SWT also refer to Al Qur'an as Al Furqon (the Criterion).

I am advising Karl to go back and study Al Qur'an before he spreads more fitna.

Yes I am not an expert on Islam and people are very touchy on the subject so I will leave it to the experts.

[M.I.A.]

its just different tribes innit?

cant tell you where they came from, guess you need to look at history books and science.
or adam and eve, but the time lines dont match up between the first sources and the second, take your pick.

[Ramadhan]

Yes I am not an expert on Islam and people are very touchy on the subject so I will leave it to the experts.

I'm sorry but it's not true.

You were the one who were being touchy.

When br. thisoldman said "Holy Qur'an", you told him he was wrong, although he was not wrong.

And you chastised br. thisoldman for having belief that we all are descendant from Adam and Hawa (pbut), although he was not wrong.

All we wanted is for you to provide evidence for what you have been saying in this forum.

Please do not twist facts.

[Ramadhan]

I read a Saudi publication with attached Hadiths and explanations and backgrounds of the texts. It was called the Noble Quran in English and some Aribic writing on the cover also, but I can only make out the Latin alphabet.

It was probably somrwhere in my Saudi publication, sorry I have not got it on me. It was not part of the Quran though.

what is this saudi publication? Can you please give us the title, or maybe scan it for us?

I am interested also to know what Islamic sources that say we all are not descendants from Adam and Hawa (pbut).

[NobleMuslimUK]

I am also interested to know how your date with the imam went. Inshallah it was all good and joyous journey and now comes the part where what you have learnt you can put into practise.

[NobleMuslimUK]

Asalaam walekum,
Brother Karl, I have read through all the pages and see that you have said some things that scientifically make sense, but your view of the Quran regarding the human race well you seem very confused.
I also believe race is not a myth, we as humans come in different colours the main factor and different physical characteristics. Some physical characteristics are more general to certain races than others. For example people of black skin colour in the males generally larger skulls, thick hair gradient, flat wider noses, naturally muscular physique, tall height etc. In the chinese slanty eyes, yellowy skin colour, short heights, semites large noses etc. I dont want to go through all the races.
As far as I am aware when Allah created Adam He took clay from different parts of the world, hence his offspring is of different colours. What gives you this mad idea that we arent all offspring of Adam and Eve. Havent you read the Quran, the story of Habil and Qabil. How mother Eve had twins a boy and girl, then again a boy and girl. The first twin boy was allowed to marry the second twin girl and the first twin girl was allowed to marry the second twin brother. Incest in this case allowed, but the twins born at the same time were not allowed to marry. So please stop this nonesense about we dont all come from Adam and Eve.
Chimps have 90% human dna does that mean chimps are a species of humans? Of course not. Allah has honoured mankind as his best creation. We may have different characteristics physically and visually, but we are all able to recite the revelation of Allah and worship Him which is our main purpose in life. For example for certain laguages you use certain parts of the brain which you dont in other languages.
Allah knows best

[Ramadhan]

Brother Karl, I have read through all the pages and see that you have said some things that scientifically make sense,

Scientifically speaking, what he has said doesn't even make any sense, because current scientific endeavors determined that all humans came from a single ancestor in east africa more than a hundred thousands years ago.

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

Going over brother Karl's posts again, certain thoughts passed through my mind. It is not a good thing to harbor bad thoughts about other people so I will post some of those thoughts here so that they can be corrected as need be.

1. In his avatar, under religion, it says "Muslim". Truth be told, he's the first Muslim that I have ever met who did not believe that all mankind are descended from Adam and Eve. Perhaps the word "Muslim" in his avatar was a typo?

2. His username makes me think of a blue-eyed blond-haired type of person. Then he alluded to some Saudi publications which, so far, he could not show us at all. Makes me wonder what race he actually is. Could he actually be just a non-Muslim who had read a bit about Islam from some publications which he thought were authoritative since he thought they came from Saudi Arabia?

I really hope that my thoughts are way off-target and that he is just a young Muslim child who had never been taught any better about Islam. WaLLahu aklam.

[Karl]

:sl:
1. In his avatar, under religion, it says "Muslim". Truth be told, he's the first Muslim that I have ever met who did not believe that all mankind are descended from Adam and Eve. Perhaps the word "Muslim" in his avatar was a typo?

Both Muslims and Christians believe in the Adam and Eve story. Some Christians believe in polygenism (though I will admit most don't), so I can't see any reason why Muslims can't either. I am not necessarily saying there was "no" Adam and Eve, but I AM saying that if the Adam and Eve story IS true then I simply won't buy it that all different human races around the entire planet descended from just ONE PAIR. There must have been many pairs. Again, I don't give a d*mn if you don't like me saying that but I DO give a d*mn if you keep badgering me over a staunch belief I hold, and a stance I have EVERY PERFECT RIGHT to hold! You will NEVER EVER change my polygenist stance, you can never take that from me, so just forget it if you think you can. Do you suggest that I should abandon Islam because I don't take everything literally word for word from the holy books and that I am utterly convinced that metaphor IS sometimes employed in Islam (as well as pretty well every other religion)? Is that what you'd like me to do? You are saying that because of my 100% inexorable polygenist stance that that is therefore my only choice left now, right?

:sl:I really hope that my thoughts are way off-target and that he is just a young Muslim child who had never been taught any better about Islam. WaLLahu aklam.

Ummm, I wasn't aware that "young children" were able to even WRITE or TYPE language to begin with! You would have to admit that a pre-schooler writing like I do must be reasonably rare?

[Karl]

Scientifically speaking, what he has said doesn't even make any sense, because current scientific endeavors determined that all humans came from a single ancestor in east africa more than a hundred thousands years ago.

I reject that "Out Of Africa" Marxist nonsense. It has not been proven, it is just a stupid theory. Don't get the idea that the only alternative to look to apart from Islam is "modern science". I don't simply TRUST modern science anyway because it is often POLITICALLY motivated. That's the problem with it. The academic institutions are overrun with treacherous pseudo-intellectual Marxist zealots who are hellbent in rationalizing monogenism. Frankly I don't mind admitting that I feel totally comfortable in having absolutely no inner conflict in regards to my hatred towards them either, given that the global imperialists just LOVE monogenism because it serves their purpose VERY well. They use it as if to say "Hey seeing you are all our own species then what we want to push on you must therefore be GOOD for you too!". So the Marxists are MORE than happy that the vast majority of Muslims happen to AGREE with their monogenism! Global imperialists utterly HATE me because they know my polygenist stance is inimical to their political agendas of neo-imperialism and cultural genocide.

[Karl]

What gives you this mad idea that we arent all offspring of Adam and Eve.

As I said before, I am NOT outright denying Adam and Eve, BUT I will never buy that ALL human races around the entire planet come from one SINGLE PAIR of Adam and Eve, sorry if you don't like that. That idea is utterly absurd as far as I'm concerned. I believe instead that the Adam and Eve story must surely be of the following three possibilities:

A) It's purely metaphorically based in a way we don't fully understand, or B) there was actually one Adam and Eve that created people BUT back in those times the concept of the "world" and "mankind" was far from what their definitions are generally concieved of being today, it was far far more limited, and so my own species wasn't simply even taken into account when the story was revealed. Or C) there were MULTIPLE Adams and Eves, and all the many different human races descended from them. You need to remember that both Christians and Muslims believe in the Adam and Eve story, but there have been some Christians who have believed in polygenism and multiple Adams and Eves, so THEREFORE why can't Muslims as well?? It doesn't seem to make sense to me that only Christians can believe in it but not Muslims.

Chimps have 90% human dna does that mean chimps are a species of humans? Of course not.

But the many different human races are not also 100% the same in DNA either!!, so it just depends where one wants to draw the line! You are also wrong that chimps have only 90% of same DNA to humans. It has been known for a long time that chimps have 99% the same DNA as humans! And gorillas are also in the late 90s. If you insist on the notion that all human races are the same species because you think their different DNA is "close enough" then I will also insist that CHIMPS AND GORILLAS ARE HUMANS seeing they are 99% the same in DNA! CLOSE ENOUGH FOR ME!:statisfie

[Ali Mujahidin]

BUT I will never buy that ALL human races around the entire planet come from one SINGLE PAIR of Adam and Eve

Since you are so sure that there are many pairs of Adams and Eves, you wouldn't, by any chance, also believe that all these many pairs of Adams and Eves are also not created by just one god but rather by a pantheon of gods?

[Ramadhan]

I reject that "Out Of Africa" Marxist nonsense. It has not been proven, it is just a stupid theory. Don't get the idea that the only alternative to look to apart from Islam is "modern science". I don't simply TRUST modern science anyway because it is often POLITICALLY motivated. That's the problem with it. The academic institutions are overrun with treacherous pseudo-intellectual Marxist zealots who are hellbent in rationalizing monogenism. Frankly I don't mind admitting that I feel totally comfortable in having absolutely no inner conflict in regards to my hatred towards them either, given that the global imperialists just LOVE monogenism because it serves their purpose VERY well. They use it as if to say "Hey seeing you are all our own species then what we want to push on you must therefore be GOOD for you too!". So the Marxists are MORE than happy that the vast majority of Muslims happen to AGREE with their monogenism! Global imperialists utterly HATE me because they know my polygenist stance is inimical to their political agendas of neo-imperialism and cultural genocide.

Whats all these rant for?

Read again, I was replying to NoblemuslimUK, not you.

Also, you reject what Allah SWT said about our ancestry, and you reject current science belief as well.

I am also showing you what you are in plain words.

[Karl]

Whats all these rant for?

Read again, I was replying to NoblemuslimUK, not you.

Yes but you were REFERRING to me. You were indirectly attacking me. So that's why I replied.

Also, you reject what Allah SWT said about our ancestry, and you reject current science belief as well.

So seeing I reject what you interpret Allah (SWT) as saying, are you therefore suggesting that I should leave Islam?

[Karl]

Since you are so sure that there are many pairs of Adams and Eves, you wouldn't, by any chance, also believe that all these many pairs of Adams and Eves are also not created by just one god but rather by a pantheon of gods?

No, I believe that the many Adams and Eves were created only by ALLAH (SWT).

[Ali Mujahidin]

No, I believe that the many Adams and Eves were created only by ALLAH (SWT).

:sl:

Let's go back to the basics then.

1. A person is deemed to be a Muslim when he (I shall use 'he' to denote both 'he' and 'she' as a matter of convenience) proclaims the Kalimmah Shuhadah ie the Twin Declaration of Faith.

2. The first and foremost thing to keep in mind, as a Muslim, is that a person is deemed to be a Muslim only as long as he lives according to the meaning and substance, both overt and covert, of the Kalimmah Shuhadah. As a very rough analogy, consider what happens when a witness takes the stand in a court of law. He swears that he will tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Henceforth his testimony is accepted by the court but only to the extent that he is adhering to what he has sworn to do right at the beginning. The moment he does not tell the truth, or tells the truth but not the whole truth or tells the whole truth plus some untruth, his testimony is null and void. Likewise for a Muslim. The moment he says or does, whether in jest or in earnest, something that is not in line with the Kalimmah Shuhadah, he is no longer considered to be a Muslim.

3. The Holy Quran is the word of Allah revealed through the Holy Prophet s.a.w.

4. The Holy Quran states clearly that there is only one Adam (as the forefather of all mankind) and there is only one Eve (as the foremother of all mankind).

5. A person cannot, at the one and same time, claim to be a Muslim and yet insist that the Holy Quran is not telling the truth about Adam and Eve.

6. In a nutshell, you either are a Muslim and believe in the truth of the Holy Quran OR you do not believe that the Holy Quran is true AND you are not a Muslim. You cannot be a Muslim and not believe that the Holy Quran is true just as you cannot believe the Holy Quran is false and still be a Muslim.

I hope I have expressed myself clearly enough. WaLLahu aklam.

Footnote:

Just so there is no confusion about whether I am making a judgement about something which I cannot evaluate, consider this scenario:

I see a man having sexual intercourse with a woman who is not his wife. I have no way of knowing what is going on in their hearts and minds. For all I know, they could very well be thinking and believing that they are husband and wife and are therefor doing something perfectly right. All I can see is that they are committing a sin and therefor I have to judge them according to what I can see only.

[Karl]

@ThisOldMan
Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

[Ali Mujahidin]

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word.

Why not? Or perhaps you don't even literally accept the existence of Allah? I think if you can tell us clearly how you view the existence of Allah, it may help us to understand your unconventional viewpoint about the Quran.

[Ramadhan]

@ThisOldMan
Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

Not sure where you get your information, but they are definitely not Qur'an.
Nowhere in the qur'an it says that the whole world was under water during Noah's flood.

As I previously said, maybe it's time for you to actually read the Qur'an.

[Tyrion]

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

Bro, I don't want to sound condescending, but seriously... Go attend some classes or listen to some lectures. I don't think you have bad intentions, and you seem fairly sincere... But you keep showing a lack of basic Islamic knowledge, so it doesn't seem right that you're making all these arguments against basic Islamic beliefs that you don't seem to fully understand. The Quran doesn't mention a world wide flood, but instead hints at a local flood. You seem to think it's the same as the Christian story however, which is a problem... Islam is not Christianity.

[Karl]

Why not? Or perhaps you don't even literally accept the existence of Allah? I think if you can tell us clearly how you view the existence of Allah, it may help us to understand your unconventional viewpoint about the Quran.

The Prophet said that Allah was beyond comprehension.
So you cannot refute something that is beyond comprehension can you? Basically if no one really knows what Allah is how can they say Allah does not exist. The ones that feel God know, the ones that don't are lost. I personally don't get hung up on people calling Allah different names or worshiping in different ways.

[Karl]

Not sure where you get your information, but they are definitely not Qur'an.
Nowhere in the qur'an it says that the whole world was under water during Noah's flood.

As I previously said, maybe it's time for you to actually read the Qur'an.

I did read the Quran. It is the final book and does not go into much detail of these ancient stories. The only mistake I found was that a translation error began from the scriptures of one of the quotes of Jesus "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven" the mistake is "camel" it should have been "rope". The error occured because the Aramaic word for rope and camel are very similar. Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

[Ali Mujahidin]

I did read the Quran

:sl:

In the original Arabic? Or the translated version? If so, which translation, please?

[Ramadhan]

Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

It is easy to say 'laa Ilaaha IlAllaahu" (there is no God but Allah).
However, the declaration of shahada must be followed also by submission of the heart and action, that is, if we claim there is no God but Allah it should translate that as The creator of everything, Allah knows everything, does not make error and does not lie.
However, in your posts in this thread at least, what you have you done is basically stating that
1. Allah made error with the Qur'an
2. You know better than Allah

This two alone invalidate your shahada.

You can rant whataver you want, but this is what other people see from you.

By the way,
We keep asking you to produce your proof from the Qur'an verses where it says Allah uses metaphore with Adam and Eve (pbut) and where does Allah say that Noah's flood was worldwide.
If you can't, you akin of attributing lies to Allah SWT.

[Abz2000]

brother ramadan, the noah's flood part confuses me too, although many have argued that it wasn't the whole earth - i grew up since childhood thinking it was the whole earth,
and this verse:

26. And Noah, said: "O my Lord! Leave not of the Unbelievers, a single one on earth! 27. "For, if Thou dost leave (any of) them, they will but mislead Thy devotees, and they will breed none but wicked ungrateful ones. 28. "O my Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong-doers grant Thou no increase but in perdition!" Chapter 71- Yusuf Ali Translation the Arabic word used is Al Ard, which translates into english either earth or land, or sometimes both. that's what gets me thinking - which one is it? Yusuf Ali himself uses Ard-ina to refer to our land in Ta-Ha He said: "Hast thou come to drive us out of our land with thy magic, O Moses? Quran 20:57. so i'm thinking maybe he thought Noah's flood was universal - since he used "earth" in that chapter despite knowing both meanings. the first verses of Chapter Nuh however seem to imply that he was sent to a certain people and not to mankind: 1. We sent Noah to his People (with the Command): "Do thou warn thy People before there comes to them a grievous Penalty."2. He said: "O my People! I am to you a Warner, clear and open: Chapter 71 we see here that the word Qawmaka (your people) is used rather than anNaas (mankind). still - because i don't know - i don't reject either in case one's wrong. and it seems quite obvious that all creatures would not fit on a single ship. to me it looks like the Quran is pointing to a certain nation, but i am still concerned about rejecting the other possibility just in case i'm wrong. any advice?

[Ramadhan]

br. abz2000, I am nowhere knowedgeable about Qur'an, however, I know for a fact that nowhere in the Qur'an where it is said that Nuh's flood was worldwide, and this is what Karl said:

Ok say I don't take the Adam and Eve story literally word for word. It is like the Noahs flood story. If you took that literally as total fact word for word you would have to be insane. As the flood was only in a small area, it is impossible that the whole world was under water.

It is clear to anyone who can read that Karl believes that Qur'an says Nuh's flood was worldwide and hence should not be believed literally.
He also does not believe that Qur'an is from Allah SWT:

The only mistake I found was that a translation error began from the scriptures of one of the quotes of Jesus "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to go to heaven" the mistake is "camel" it should have been "rope". The error occured because the Aramaic word for rope and camel are very similar. Simply the flaw in the Bible was carried on to the Quran.

Have you ever met any muslim who does not believe that Qur'an is from Allah SWT?

[Ali Mujahidin]

:sl:

From what I was taught, all the prophets before Muhammed s.a.w. were sent only for their own people. Only Muhammed was sent for all people for all time until Kiamat.

So obviously Noah a.s. was sent only to his people. Whether the flood covered the whole planet or only certain parts of it does not change the fact that all human beings are descended from Adam and Eve. This ancestorship is what Karl disputed.

He said there was no reason why all mankind could not have been descended from many different parents. Perhaps he might even harbor the thought that some of mankind descended from Adam and Eve while some are descended from apes or monkeys. I wonder what Karl thought he was descended from. Maybe he preferred to be descended from something else other than Adam and Eve. Something else like apes or monkeys? Would be good if Karl gives us some idea what he thought he was descended from.

[truthseeker63]

What does Islam say about people fearing death how do Muslims conquer the fear of death that many humans have ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necrophobia

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you, we haave missed you, and I was wondering how you got on with seeing the Imam
a little while ago.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question.

Every blessing

Eric

[Abz2000]

It's easy to overcome when you know with certainty that the message is true, and that paradise is true,
And after seeing some of the misguidance of Satan and his government, you long for paradise away from the filth and decadence.
And regarding dying in battle or getting killed by a drone - thereby achieving martyrdom - I'm sure many seeing someone go through the pangs of death would agree that dying in battle and relaxing at judgement is far more comfortable than 1. Dying. 2. The trial of the grave. 3. The terror of the looooooong day of judgement,
And then sirat. 4. A lower status.

It is due to a feeling of attachment to the world and family that we are often made to see death as scary - to the extent that some won't even speak out in the face of extreme tyranny due to fear of death - thereby enslaving future generations.
In my opinion it can be overcome by learning to love good and hate evil,
Studying the descriptions of paradise and hell
Remembering that we all die anyways
Develop an unbridled desire to gain freedom from tyrants - whatever the costs.
Study characters like Khalid ibn al waleed (ra)
Peace

[truthseeker63]

I think People should not fear death we all are going to die one day.

[Pure Purple]

I think People should not fear death we all are going to die one day.

People should fear about death,that will keep you on right path .
We should atleast remember death once every day and how I spend whole day i.e righteous deed or not.

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you truthseeker63;

I think People should not fear death we all are going to die one day.

We should not fear death, but we should fear facing God, to have faith and trust in God we have to do something.

In the spirit of searching

Eric

[truthseeker63]

If a person does a major sin like Adultery/Homosexuality/Drinking should the sinner tell people they did this so they will be punished or should they keep their sin/sins secret ? What does the Holy Quran and the Hadith say should sins be made public or kept secret ? The reason Im asking this is because many Christians tell their Priests their sins.

[.iman.]

asalaam alaykoum

In Islam, you should NOT divulge/reveal your sins to ANYONE. That also means if you know about someone else's sin, that you should keep it a secret. Allah SWT is All Knowing and He sees everything that you do, so there is no need to declare it publicly. Repent to Allah, ask for forgiveness, and ask for Allah to protect you from sinning in the future.

It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) say, "All of my ummah may be forgiven except those who commit sin openly. It is a kind of committing sin openly if a man does something at night, then morning comes and Allah has concealed his sin, but he says 'O So and So, I did such and such last night' when his Lord has concealed him (his action) all night but in the morning he reveals that which Allah had concealed for him." [Al Bukhari 5721, Muslim 2990]

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I thought I would share this video..

[truthseeker63]

Is watching Television/TV allowed in Islam ? I know photo taking pictures is not allowed but is photo taking ever allowed for any reason but is TV allowed ?

[truthseeker63]

Does anyone know thank you ?

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings of peace

Using your time wisely is allowed in Islam, wasting your time is not. So if you can or are able to prevent yourself from watching something on Tv which you should not be looking at, then do so, but if that is difficult, keep away as it is very dangerous for you. However, If you think you know that whatever you are watching is bad, but you think you are strong and you will fight it, this is just a trick of shaytaan. Shaytaan is cunning and has many ways to get you occupied in using this 'time' of yours unwisely. If this thing is taking you far away from the remembrance of Allaah, focusing in your salaah, stay far away from that act or place, avoid it much.

I am sure this can be applied to anything you use.. the internet itself can be a tool of bad use, including other things. We have to be careful how we use it. But sometimes some things are full of soo much bad it is difficult to avoid, we have to find alternatives because there are alternatives out there and not one use of equipment to get to something, this is so it becomes easy upon you and Allaah SWT only wants ease for you, but unfortunate it is many decide to choose the hard way when the easy route is available.

Therefore, stuff like benefited documentaries, Islamic lectures, recitation of the Qur'aan etc there is nothing against listening to/watching this. As it is of benefit to ones self insha'Allaah.. Whatever the case, when watching Tv or doing whatever you will doing in life ask yourself "Will this be pleasing to Allaah?" "Will I benefit myself from doing this?" "Maybe I can spend a little time doing this or using this but ensure it doesn't let me waste my time"..."If I can spending doing this I can also spend the similar amount on reading the Qur'aan or listening to a lecture" etc etc...

I hope a member can add anything if I have missed something out and correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding Photos, as far as I am aware one should not have images in the room or even their home they are performing their salaah in as it prevents the blessings of Allaah SWT entering upon that house.


Volume 4, Book 54, Number 448 :

Narrated by Abu Talha

I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal)."

Also photos needed out of necessity such as passports, buss pass etc I believe are permitted as they are necessary items..The rest I shall let someone else reply to insha'Allaah..

Apologise if I sounded harsh as I had no intent to be..also Hope someone passes on a better reply insha'Allaah..

[Insecured soul]

I heard, its a hadith that muaz bin jabal RA said to the angel of death welcome i was waiting for this time as i love the meeting with allah and i only lived in dunya to fast in long summer days and pray qayaammul layl in long winter nights.

subhan allah they had only aakhirah on thier mind

salaam

[Ramadhan]

If you make sins, conceal it and make taubah (repentance and ask Allah SWT directly for forgiveness).

Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly (for forgiveness) and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean. (Quran, 2:222)

Whosoever covers (the sins of) a Muslim, Allah covers (his sins) on the Day of Judgment. (Reported by Bukhari)

he Messenger of Allah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: “My entire nation is safe, except al-Mujahirin (those who boast of their sins). Among the Mujaharah is that a man commits an (evil) act, and wakes up in the morning while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret, he says: “O so-and-so! Last night I did this and that.” He goes to sleep while Allah has kept his (sin) a secret but he wakes up in the morning and uncovers what Allah has kept a secret!” [Saheeh al-Bukhari]

Abdullah Ibn Masoud (رضي الله عنه) related, ‘A man came to the Prophet and said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! I have mingled with a woman in the far side of al-Medina, and I fulfilled my desire short of actually having sexual intercourse with her. So, here am I, judge me according to what you decide.’ Umar Ibn al-Khattab (رضي الله عنه) then said: ‘Allah had kept your secret, why did not you keep your secret?’ [Shahih Muslim]

Allah’s Messenger (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: “He, who relieves a hardship of this Dunya (world) for a believer, Allah will relieve (from him) a hardship of the Day of Resurrection; he who makes easy an indebted person, Allah will make it easy for him in the Dunya and the Hereafter; he who covers a Muslim (meaning his mistakes and shortcomings), Allah will cover him in the Dunya and the Hereafter …” [Muslim]

[Iconodule]

I love the story of Muhammad cutting off his sleeve for the cat; I often share it with friends. I've also heard (perhaps wrongly) that Muhammad hated dogs. I hope that's not the case- I love both cats and dogs.

[ardianto]

Belang, manis, femi, bimba, elsa, dora, eka, cikal, kuyung, yoko, miko, ..... and many more, ..... and many more.

These were my cats names.

[Salahudeen]

Yes you're allowed to have cats, there was a great companion called Abu Hurayrah (literally “Father of the Kitten”) because he used to love cats and keep them. It's very important you treat your cat well though. Colour does not matter.

Anas said, "The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, forbade tying up animals so that they could be shot at and killed."

[Agreed upon]Riyad as-Salihin (The Meadows of the Righteous)

"Those who are kind and considerate to Allah's creatures, Allah bestows His kindness and affection on them. Show kindness to the creatures on the earth so that Allah may be kind to you." Hadith - Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi

[joyous fairy]

I had a black cat for a while and a lot of people started saying that black cats are usually jinns. My sister read Ayat ul Kursi over the cat and nothing happened so we kept her and she was such a good cat! She never did anything messy in the house and she would just come and sit near someone and watch them. :statisfie

[ardianto]

I had a black cat for a while and a lot of people started saying that black cats are usually jinns. My sister read Ayat ul Kursi over the cat and nothing happened so we kept her and she was such a good cat! She never did anything messy in the house and she would just come and sit near someone and watch them.

Different place, different culture.

People in my place believe, if jinns want to take form as animal, they will take form as snake, not black cat.

[~Raindrop~]

I love cats too! Especially the cute kittens:

:wub:

Wish I could have one :(

PS- Never heard of Jinns possessing black cats... :unsure:

[Jedi_Mindset]

U can keep both dogs and cats, Prophet Muhammed(Saw) never hated dogs, but dislked them. Why?

One of the reasons is when you have a dog in your house that angels can't enter your house.
You can still keep them but better let your dog sleep in the shack. Or build one for your dog in the backyard. In the open world, you can keep dogs and walk with them. Also for hunting you can use a dog.

[truthseeker63]

Can Satan influence people to do wrong or evil things ? Like could Satan influence Leaders of Nations to harm Muslims or just harm people in general ? I don't mean to make this a political thread but I believe Satan or the Devil influences Western Leaders to do wrong. What does the Holy Quran and or the Hadith say thank you ?

http://www.islamawareness.net/Jinn/fatwa_whispers.html

[Insaanah]

Can Satan influence people to do wrong or evil things ?

Yes.

"O mankind, eat from whatever is on earth [that is] lawful and good and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy. He only orders you to evil and immorality and to say about Allah what you do not know." (2:168-169)

"Indeed, those of you who turned back on the day the two armies met, it was Satan who caused them to slip because of some [blame] they had earned. But Allah has already forgiven them. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing." (3:155)

"Have you not seen those who pretend that they believe in that which is revealed to you and that which was revealed before you? They wish to go for judgement (in their disputes) to false deities when they have been ordered to reject them, and Satan wishes to lead them far astray." (4:60)

"Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion." (4:120)

"Then why, when Our punishment came to them, did they not humble themselves? But their hearts became hardened, and Satan made attractive to them that which they were doing." (6:43)

He (Iblees/Satan)said: "My Lord! Because Thou hast sent me astray, I verily shall adorn the path of error for them in the earth, and shall mislead them every one, except those of them that are Your perfectly devoted slaves." (15:39-40)

(Allah said) "Indeed, My servants - no authority will you have over them, except those who follow you of the deviators." (15:42)

[Flame of Hope]

Can Satan influence people to do wrong or evil things ? Like could Satan influence Leaders of Nations to harm Muslims or just harm people in general ? I don't mean to make this a political thread but I believe Satan or the Devil influences Western Leaders to do wrong.

Hi! Yes, Satan does have a powerful influence on us. In fact, a lot of people underestimate him. Not just leaders of nations.... but all people are in danger of being influenced by him. Nobody is safe.

[truthseeker63]

In a sharia court is it accepted to use modern technology like lie detector tests to have a conviction for adultery or must there always be four witnesses ?



Modern Technology:

Shaykh Salih al Munajjid said on IslamQA; According to Islamic sharee'ah, Zinaa [adultery/fornication] can only be proven by clear evidence, namely the testimony of four trustworthy and sound witnesses who saw it actually happen, or by confession of guilt, or by the woman becoming pregnant. It cannot be proven by DNA testing or by use of cameras and videos in place of the things mentioned above. And Allaah knows best.

[see IslamQA #6926]


http://www.idawah.com/refutations/ad...unishment.html

[جوري]

Just think with youTube and adult TV and the sleazy magazines everyone would be due for a hanging-- figuratively ..
it would be interesting though if this ijtihad is a consensus amongst most of the scholars...

[aamirsaab]

If I am not mistaken, some form of dna is actually allowed in Sharia courts anyway (victims of rape, for instance, are to scratch their attacker's skin which can then be used to identify the attacker later on...) Also, in cases (whether it is adultery or otherwise) where there was no witness, but there was cctv, I think it would be a great social and moral injustice to disallow such evidence.

Similarly, if the witness testimonies all agree on one thing but the footage from the cctv/dna says otherwise, it would surely be more just to err on the side of caution and not administer a punishment to the accused because now there is doubt. If it then turns out those witnesses have conspired and frame an innocent person, which is a crime in Islam, cctv footage may be the only way of proving this.

I'm not sure what the overall consensus is, but from my understanding of Sharia (which is justice and NOT punishment) modern technology should be allowed - as supporting evidence at least.

[ardianto]

Commit adultery is different than rape. In commit adultery both party done it without coercion, while in rape, one forced another.

"And those who accuse chaste women and then do not produce four witnesses - lash them with eighty lashes and do not accept from them testimony ever after. And those are the defiantly disobedient"
(An-Nur : 4. Sahih International)

The ayah above is about accusation by people to chaste women, not about rape. Need four witnesses if someone wants to accuse a chaste woman commit adultery. However, there is no any ayah or hadith that obligate rape victim to present four witnesses if she wants to sue the rapist to sharia court, because commit adultery is different than rape. In one case, caliph Umar Ibn Khattab (ra) punished a slave from Khoms who raped a slave woman, although there were no four witnesses in this case.

Can modern technologies such as camera or DNA testing be used in sharia court for rape cases ?. Many ulama in this modern day have made ijtihad and issued fatawa, modern technologies can be used for rape cases.

[aadil77]

Thats view of sheikh salih al munajjid, I'm sure other sheikhs would hold an opposite view

[truthseeker63]

In Islam are the mentally disabled punished for their sins ? I don't get why they would since they have a mind of a children and can't take care of themselves ?

Why Allaah creates mentally disabled people

Why has Allah created mentally Disabled people

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/7951

[Abz2000]

The Messenger of Allah (صلي الله عليه وسلم) said: “The Pen is lifted from three (i.e., their deeds are not recorded):

1. a child until he reaches puberty;
2. an insane man until he comes to his senses;
3. one who is asleep until he wakes up.”

[Recorded in Abu Dawud #4403, and Ibn Majah #2041]

http://www.ilmfruits.com/the-pen-is-lifted-from-three

[Abz2000]

it ultimately comes down to honesty, as even video can be manipulated frame by frame:



.....imagine how many murder sentences can be handed out there

a woman guilty of adultery or fornication can claim rape with the use of dna.

and lie detectors can easily be cheated by people who know how they work,
you just think you're lying when answering the true test questions, and think you're telling the truth when answering the false test questions - and muddle the hell out of it by having conflicting thoughts during all answers

honest witnesses are important

[Ali_008]

It is quite logical that Shaikh Salih Al-Munajjid gave that answer. We have examples from the time of the Prophet to prove it. There were 2 people back then who had confessed their zina and Prophet Muhammad (SallAllahuAlayhiWaSallam) tried quite hard to avoid their punishment. He didn't easily give into their demands of carrying out the punishment on both of them. One of them was popularly known as "the Ghamidi woman" and the other was Ma'iz. The two hadn't committed zina with each other. They had come to the prophet on separate occasions and both the times, the Prophet tried to turn them away and gave them plenty of chance to repent on their own without executing them.

So, you see the Prophet encouraged repentance more than the whip.

It is also a matter of choice. I mean, though the two stood witness against their own selves yet the Prophet implemented the requital only after giving them much chance of repentance. In a way, they were only punished because they insisted for it as they were not able to carry the burden of that heinous sin on their shoulders. So, if someone has committed zina and wants to hide it and repent truthfully then what right do we have putting that person on a lie detector.

If the person wants to hide it but there are four witnesses against him/her then this also becomes a case of public obscenity. This situation can only be solved with the trial.

In case of rape, this is robbery of human rights. The woman's pregnancy is enough as an evidence against the convict.

[Abz2000]

but what if she claimed rape after she realised she was pregnant?
it's a lot more complicated than that.

[Ali_008]

but what if she claimed rape after she realised she was pregnant?
it's a lot more complicated than that.

She can still press charges. She might have considered forgiving the rapist but as pregnancy is a huge event in every woman's life then it must have triggered her to raise her voice.

[ardianto]

Thats view of sheikh salih al munajjid, I'm sure other sheikhs would hold an opposite view

Shaykh Salih Al Munajid was not talking about rape, but about zina. I don't see anything wrong with his fatwa.

[truthseeker63]

How is the Caliphate/Caliph chosen in Islam ? Are there elections by the people or are they chosen by God or by the leaders ?


http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/itl/denise/right.htm

[truthseeker63]

Why did Pakistan separate from India in 1947 is it because the Hindus and the Muslims were fighting ? This is what I read in History Books. Have Pakistan and India fought each other in wars ?


http://english.emory.edu/Bahri/Part.html

[truthseeker63]

Is Patriotism allowed in Islam ? Can a Muslim for example who is Egyptian from Egypt be proud or have Patriotism for being Egyptian ? Im not talking about Nationalism Im just talking about can Muslims be Patriots to their Nation States ? Can Muslims be loyal to the Islamic State which is the Caliphate ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_nationalism

[Salahudeen]

^ I don't know much but I think it was because Hindu's/Sikhs were making life hard for the Indian Muslims' that's why they decided to have their own Islamic state where they could practice their religion freely, but as time passed they deviated from their original goal of creating an Islamic state, as in some parts of Pakistan, it doesn't feel like an Islamic state at all. Secularism is the rule there, and men who like to legislate contrary to what Allah has legislated are in government. But this is the case for the majority of Muslim populated countries, the population is being ruled and enslaved by laws of men. Not the laws of their creator.

[Abz2000]

Islam was spreading like wildfire in india and the colonialists decided to stir up turmoil and division, so they sparked conflicts and split up the nation and made muslims out to be "the enemy on the other side of the border".
the muslims didn't have much choice due to the conflict.
but before that - all indians muslim and hindu - were part of the parliament and there was a khilafat movement with widespread mass appeal among muslims and non-muslims of india.
this movement also had the support of gandhi
The Khilafat movement (1919–1924) was a pan-Islamic, political campaign launched by Muslims in British India to influence the British governmentand to protect the Ottoman Empire during the aftermath of World War I.
In India, although mainly a Muslim religious movement, the movement became a part of the wider Indian independence movement. The movement was a topic in Conference of London (February 1920).

The support of the Khilafatists helped Gandhi and the Congress ensure Hindu-Muslim unity during the struggle.
Gandhi described his feelings towards Mohammad Ali as "love at first sight" to underscore his feelings of solidarity.
Khilafat leaders such as Dr. Ansari, Maulana Azad and Hakim Ajmal Khan also grew personally close to Gandhi.
These leaders founded the Jamia Millia Islamia in 1920 to promote independent education and social rejuvenation for Muslims.

Pakistan was made an "independent" country based on border lines created by the British during the end of their rule of India.
Pakistan became an "independent" country in 1947.

also research the term "quarantine"

[Abz2000]

once they had decided india was under sufficient control - they claimed to "grant them independence",
but that was a farce aswell.
because it was independence from the taxpayers who had funded the wars - but not from their personal interests.

motilal nehru was a famous freemason, famous to the freemasons that is - but not to the general public:
http://www.masonindia.org/MInfo_59.htm


Jawaharlal Nehru often referred to with the epithet of Panditji, was the first prime minister of independent India (1947–64),
who established parliamentary government and became noted for his “neutralist” policies in foreign affairs.
The son of moderate nationalist leader and Congressman Motilal Nehru
Jawaharlal nehru's daughter Indira Priyadarshini Gandhi served as prime minister of India for three consecutive terms (1966–77).

talk about keeping it in the family

The family of Motilal Nehru, who is seated in the centre. Standing (L to R)
Jawaharlal Nehru (Panditji), Vijaya Lakshmi Pandit, Krishna Hutheesingh, Indira Gandhi and Ranjit Pandit; Seated: Swaroop Rani, Motilal Nehru and Kamala Nehru (circa 1927)

look at the antics they stage:

once during an Emergency, Mrs. Indira Gandhi decided to ban freemasonry.
But, later, "when she knew their ideal"s, she was so impressed and went on saying ‘if all Indians were like them, the members of the Freemasonry, there would be peace all around.

she didn't know her grandfather? or was he one of those obscure little known people who's past she didn't know much about?...........see above photo
freemasonry was taken to india by the colonialists who put the "honourable east india company" (the world's biggest opium dealer) as heads and grandmasters.
When did Freemasonry come to India?
A). The honor of receiving Freemasonry in India goes to Calcutta. In 1730 officers of the East Indian Company held their meetings in Fort William, Calcutta. The number given to the Lodge was 72.

http://www.masonindia.org/index10.html


also research : opium wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

it's been a rigged game from a long while back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ei6OuruGc

[جوري]

The same thing was happening in Germany, so they put those ahmadis there to confuse them from following the true path.. I have to say I have always thought England to be the spawn of the devil.. they've unleashed ill upon every place, from opium wars to false religions.. anything at all they could do they do..
Good for the chinese though as much as I despise their govt. and complete lack of humanity especially toward their Muslims.. they've persevered, while America & co. are busying themselves taking apart the middle east and its supply of oil, China worked on its military & space program.. of course Israel the sociopathic cancer of the world is trying to piggyback on that, except the chinese would love to buy American secrets without a second thought to 'God's chosen' there's no joint agenda here.. No Moschiach and no republican Jesus..

[Abz2000]

what i'm wondering though is how much of china the drug barons bought during and after the opium wars when china was in tatters....

this is why i say it:
"One is impressed immediately by the sense of national harmony.... Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution it has obviously succeeded... in fostering high morale and community purpose. General social and economic progress is no less impressive....The enormous social advances of China have benefited greatly form the singleness of ideology and purpose.... The social experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful in history."
David rockefeller New York Times, 8-10-1973.

"For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions.
Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States,
characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists'
and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure--one world, if you will.
If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.
Quotes from David Rockefeller's Memoirs(Random House, New York, 2002) Chapter 27, pages 404 and 405.

[Abz2000]

Say: If your fathers, and your sons, and your brethren, and your wives, and your tribe, and the wealth ye have acquired, and merchandise for which ye fear that there will no sale, and dwellings ye desire
are dearer to you than Allah and His messenger and striving in His way: then wait till Allah bringeth His command to pass. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
Quran 9:24

this doesn't mean that you can't fight to save your country from invasion and looting, or unite with others to do so under common cause:

narrated by Abu Hurairah and reported by Muslim:
a person came to the Prophet (pbuh) – and said, “O Messenger of Allah, What if a person comes who wants to take my property?”
He replied, “Then don’t give him your property”
The man said, “What if he fights me?”
He replied, “Fight him back”
The man said, “What if he kills me?”
He replied, “Then you are a Martyr”
The man said, “What if I kill him?”
He replied, “He is in the Hellfire”.

as long as the cause you are fighting is that of God and His messenger's, and the ones you are fighting are against God and His messenger,
you are involved in active struggle which may be acceptable to Allah as martyrdom if you die,
but if you give preference to the people of your country - against the Believers in another country who may suffer as a result, simply because it is your country
- then it is racism and causing divisions in the ummah.
you die in ignorance.

And Allah knows best

[جوري]

Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most important and successful

depends on how they define success? Mao caused the death of 15 MILLION peasants.. Human life is so meaningless to some people, they seem to relish extermination..

[tigerkhan]

:sl:
as per my understanding, there was "shura" (u say like a parliment but not fixed as now a days,) and they decide it who will be the next khalifa. they nominate the name and rest of ppl do bah't (vote/acceptance). Most of time Khialifa himself decide who will be next after him or he can make a options for shura to chose from some specified ppl.

[truthseeker63]

Will Time Travel to the Past ever be possible why or why not ?

[Marina-Aisha]

hahaha r u serious?

[Huzzy_786]

Well, To be honest, No.

I think you've been watching too many movies.

[Abz2000]

yes - it is possible - record it, then watch it a few years later.
watch with 3d glasses.

it may not seem amazing to you because you're used to it.
but if you told someone in the past that people would be able to press a button and see events of the past exactly as if they were seeing it happen on a sheet of glass - they would have been incredulous.

[marwen]

I think it's more like a science fiction myth. That's why we find it more in movies and literature.
Logically speaking, it doesn't make sense because it creates paradoxes of causality and existence. Though some people relate it to some physics theories like relativity, that may suppose it could be possible to move in time due to time dilation (time could flow differently according to differently moving observers ), and this only explains moving in time to the future AFAIK, not to the past. But these ideas are just theories.

In addition to the fact that traveling back to the past is logically inconsistent; no one can give a clear explanation or a method on how to do it. That's why many authors of movies/books delegate it to a "mysterious Time Machine" that we don't know how it works.

[Huzzy_786]

yes - it is possible - record it, then watch it a few years later.
watch with 3d glasses.

it may not seem amazing to you because you're used to it.
but if you told someone in the past that people would be able to press a button and see events of the past exactly as if they were seeing it happen on a sheet of glass - they would have been incredulous.

Outstanding theory! When I read this post and then read mine, I kicked myself.

I do agree on what you said, Like wise we would insult a person if he says he saw a flying car, however we never know within the next 1000 years this might be possible.

Awesome thinking bro, keep it up.! ;)

[Abz2000]

we already have flying cars - it's just that they have giant wings on them

[Huzzy_786]

Exactly... Whilst I was posting I meant cars which fly but look like the cars which people drive on the roads... Sorry for not mentioning that.

[Abz2000]

:) :) :)



i won't spoil it :)

for a real one - all it takes is a light (possibly fibreglass/kevlar) car, few powerful compact directional jet boosters - lots of free energy, and an air traffic system.

[Huzzy_786]

I'll be honest, But I wont believe there's such thing as a flying car until I see it in front of my eyes because for what we know that car could be wired up and the wires are not able to see by the camera...

And If you really believe this then I can post a video of superman or spiderman and say humans can fly -.-

[Abz2000]

^ lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's why i said i wouldn't spoil it....................


.....................it's a radio controlled balloon that's using rotors :shade:

but with a few decent jet packs, you could make it out of a more sturdy material and add a seat or two

[Huzzy_786]

Woah! I thought It was a real car... Should have realized earlier ey? Oh well...

[Ali_008]

I can't give the reference right now but once I had come across a Hadith which said "nationalism is one of the coals of hell fire". In Islam, you can love your motherland but don't exaggerate it. You can't discriminate on the basis of geography. Patriotism can only be allowed on a moderate level in Islam. :)

[Ali_008]

Why be bothered about it? Time travel is only possible if you can travel faster than the speed of light which is 3 x 100,000,000 meters/second. And even that theory is on some weird basis. Its like if you travel faster than light then you'll be able to make a trip around the earth and come back in a few seconds on the next day. :uuh:

It's too complicated as far as I know and according to me, it'll be just be a waste of time. :hmm:

[Huzzy_786]

Its like another thing that the scientists came up with. Basicly there's another plant exactly like earth! No difference! No one lives on there, however, if you leave earth it will take you 72,000(approx) to get there. :S Whats the point of that?

[Dagless]

Its like another thing that the scientists came up with. Basicly there's another plant exactly like earth! No difference! No one lives on there, however, if you leave earth it will take you 72,000(approx) to get there. :S Whats the point of that?

Maybe someone does live there :P But I think it's so we know there are other places to travel to for when the earth ends.

[Huzzy_786]

By the time we get there we'll be dead... Who lives for 72,000 years xD

[Dagless]

By the time we get there we'll be dead... Who lives for 72,000 years xD

It's for far into the future, so maybe the travel will be a lot faster... or maybe there will be ships like cities so their descendants will get there...

[Abz2000]

or maybe they're consoling us that we shouldn't be too worried about them destroying the planet because they've found another one for us.
hell - these guys are funny.
they don't even know if there's life on mars and they're trying to convince us that they know a planet 72,000 years away is habitable

[MartyrX]

Only when Doc Brown masters the flux capacitor.

[Huzzy_786]

It's for far into the future, so maybe the travel will be a lot faster... or maybe there will be ships like cities so their descendants will get there...

There's a lot of "Maybe's" there.

[Dagless]

There's a lot of "Maybe's" there.

Nobody but Allah knows the future, so it is only possibilities :p

[islamica]

What is Patriotism but love for one's country. We Muslims are Patriot just like any other nation. We are Patriot towards our home country but also other Muslim countries. If someone attacks our country then it is our Patriotic duty and Islamic right to defend it. And if a kuffar army attacks another Muslim country, it is still our Patriotic duty and Islamic duty to go defend it.

[truthseeker63]

Thanks for your answer.

[Abz2000]

methinks you watched source code.

it's a ridiculous notion - if you go back in time - there would be no such thing as the present as it is, and we live in the present.
if you meet someone and spend 5 minutes talking to them, they might not bump into their future spouse, and then total generations would take a different route - it's called the ripple effect.
if you broke someone's leg, they may not become the influential person they were due to a missed speech, and the whole world would be different in just a few generations.
and that would mean the present isn't the present.
the future is another thing,
Allah can get Gabriel (as) take people on a tour of paradise and even show them the condition of people of paradise and hell - and he also took them on (virtual) tours of the future, they gave us many prophecies and described the events in detail.

[truthseeker63]

The reason I asked about time travel is because I think it would be a bad thing if it were possible to travel into the past becayse then it would be possible to change history.

[ardianto]

The reason I asked about time travel is because I think it would be a bad thing if it were possible to travel into the past becayse then it would be possible to change history.

If I can back to the past I will make this thread few days before you made it and claim myself as the thread creator. Imagine if I back to the past bring thousands designs of technologies, how many patents in technologies I would hold ?

[ardianto]

we already have flying cars - it's just that they have giant wings on them

This flying car doesn't need wings. Even it can brings you to the past and back to the future.

[joyous fairy]

Welll,say if someone got on an aeroplane and flew to a different time zone,wouldnt they technically moving in time? To the future or otherwise?

Like people in Australia are in the future to us Brits. Its already the next day for them but if they came to the UK now, they would be going back in time?

No?

AmIjustconfused? :hmm:

[Tyrion]

you can love your motherland but don't exaggerate it.

+1000

Balance balance balance... Most things boil down to balance. If you find someone giving you an answer from an extreme point of view, whether it be an extremely liberal view or an extremely conservative view, think twice.

[Abz2000]

:) and if you're in a kuffar country which subjugates Muslims - and the Muslims come to free it,
your patriotism for your country should lead you help the Muslims free it,

[GuestFellow]

Muslims should be loyal to Allah. It's not rocket science. Nationalism and patriotism just annoys me, especially when people wave flags, express their devotion to the ground and get all emotional. Ugh I rather vomit. :/

^ I hope I did not offend anyone.

[Abz2000]

a part of it is natural,
just like one looks out for ones direct family and gives them preference, the tribe is also an extended family, and then the nation.
but then again - we often forget that the whole of mankind is one family from the loins of Adam.
but in Islam, even if your father or son becomes an enemy of God - then your loyalty lies with God- as we saw at badr when the believers fought their fathers and brothers from Quraish, and when Abraham (pbuh) cleared himself of his father.

[Iconodule]

I can't give the reference right now but once I had come across a Hadith which said "nationalism is one of the coals of hell fire".

Hm, I don't think nationalism really existed back then.

[جوري]

Hm, I don't think nationalism really existed back then.

Sure it did, what world do you live in?

[Iconodule]

Isn't nationalism a product of European "Enlightenment" thinking?

What's the classical Arabic word for "nationalism"?

[جوري]

Isn't nationalism a product of European "Enlightenment" thinking?

What's the classical Arabic word for "nationalism"?

It isn't about the word, however, if you stick it in the dictionary you'd end up with
1-Love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
2-The doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other
3-The doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals..

certainly Islam came to put an end to all that

“God said: ‘What prevented you (O Satan) that you did not prostrate when I commanded you?’ Iblees (the Satan) replied: ‘I am better than him (Adam). You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.” (Quran 7:12) So begins the history of racism. Satan thought himself superior to Adam on account of his origins. Since that day, Satan has misled many of Adam’s descendants into also believing themselves superior to others, causing them to persecute and exploit their fellow man. Quite often, religion has been used to justify racism. Judaism, for example, despite its Middle*-Eastern origins, is readily passed off as a Western religion; but the entry of Jews into all levels of Western society actually betrays Judaism’s elitist reality. A pious reading of the bible verse: “There is no God in all the world but in Israel.” (2 Kings 5:15) …would be to suggest that in those days God, or God, was not worshipped except by Israelites. However, Judaism today remains centered around its boast of ‘chosen’ racial superiority. “Say: ‘O Jews! If you pretend that you are the beloved slaves of God to the exclusion of the rest of humanity, then long for death if you are really truthful.’” (Quran 62:6) Conversely, while most Christians are overwhelmingly non*-Jew, Jesus, as the last of the Israelite Prophets, was sent to none but the Jews.[1] “And (remember) when Jesus, son of Mary, said: ‘O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of God sent unto you, confirming the Torah before me and bearing glad tidings of a Messenger after me whose name shall be Ahmad[2]...’” (Quran 61:6) And likewise every Prophet was sent exclusively to his own people,[3] every Prophet, that is, except Muhammad. “Say (O Muhammad): ‘O People! I am the Messenger of God sent to you all…’” (Quran 7:158) As Muhammad was God’s final Prophet and Messenger, his mission was a universal one, intended for not only his own nation, the Arabs, but all the peoples of the world. The Prophet said: “Every other Prophet was sent to his nation exclusively, while I have been sent to all of humanity.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari) “And We have not sent you (O Muhammad) except as a bearer of glad tidings and a Warner to all mankind, but most of people know not.” (Quran 34:28) Bilal the Abyssinian One of the first to accept Islam was an Abyssinian slave named Bilal. Traditionally, black Africans were a lowly people in the sight of Arabs who thought them to be of little use beyond entertainment and slavery. When Bilal embraced Islam, his pagan master had him brutally tortured in the scorching desert heat until Abu Bakr, the Prophet’s closest friend, rescued him by buying his freedom. The Prophet appointed Bilal to call the believers to prayer. The athan heard from minarets in every corner of the world since, echoes the exact same words recited by Bilal. Thus, a onetime lowly slave won a unique honor as Islam’s first muezzin. “And indeed We have honored the Children of Adam...” (Quran 17:70) Western romantics hail ancient Greece as being the birthplace of democracy.[4] The reality was that, as slaves and women, the vast majority of Athenians were denied the right to elect their rulers. Yet, Islam ordained that a slave could himself be ruler! The Prophet ordered: “Obey your ruler even if he be an Abyssinian slave.” (Ahmad) Footnotes: [1] The bible agrees. Jesus is reported to have said: ‘I have not been sent except to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.’ (Matthew 15:24). Hence, every one of his famous twelve disciples was an Israelite Jew. The one biblical passage where Jesus tells them to: ‘Go and preach unto all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.’ (Matthew 28:19), commonly quoted to prove the Gentile mission as well as the Trinity, is not found in any pre-16th century manuscript and thus considered ‘a pious fraud.’ [2] One of the names of Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. [3] And We sent to every nation a Messenger (saying): ‘Worship God (alone) and shun false deities.’ (Quran 16:36) [4] Democracy is a Middle-Eastern invention, first seen in the civilization of Ebla in 3rd millennium BC, and then in Phoenicia and Mesopotamia during 11th century BC. It did not appear in Athens unti15th century BC. Salman the Persian Like most of his countrymen, Salman was raised a devout Zoroastrian. However, after an encounter with some Christians at worship, he accepted Christianity as ‘something better’. Salman then traveled extensively in search of knowledge, from the service of one learned monk to another, the last of whom said: ‘O son! I do not know of anyone who is on the same (creed) as we are. However, the time of the emergence of a Prophet is at hand. This Prophet is upon the religion of Abraham.’ The monk then proceeded to describe this Prophet, his character and where he would appear. Salman migrated to Arabia, the land of the prophecy, and when he heard about and met Muhammad, he immediately recognized him from his teacher’s descriptions and embraced Islam. Salman became renowned for his knowledge and was the first person to translate the Quran into another language, Persian. Once, whilst the Prophet was amongst his Companions, the following was revealed to him: “It is He (God) Who had sent among the unlettered (the Arabs) a Messenger (Muhammad) from among themselves... and (also to) others (i.e. non*-Arabs) among them who have not yet joined them (as Muslims)...” (Quran 62:2-3) God’s Messenger then placed his hand on Salman and said: “Even if the Faith were near (the stars of) Pleiades, a man from amongst these (Persians) would surely attain it.” (Saheeh Muslim) Suhayb the Roman Suhayb was born into privilege in the luxurious house of his father, who was a client governor for the Persian emperor. While he was still a child, Suhayb was captured by Byzantine raiders and sold into slavery in Constantinople. Suhayb eventually escaped from bondage and fled to Mecca, a popular place of asylum, where he soon became a prosperous merchant nick-named ‘ar-Rumi’, the Roman, due to his Byzantine tongue and upbringing. When Suhayb heard Muhammad preach, he was at once convinced of the truth of his message and embraced Islam. Like all the early Muslims, Suhayb was persecuted by the pagans of Mecca. So, he traded all his wealth in exchange for safe passage to join the Prophet at Medina, whereupon the Prophet, delighted to see Suhayb, greeted him thrice: ‘Your trade has been fruitful, O [Suhayb]! Your trade has been fruitful!’ God had informed the Prophet of Suhayb’s exploits before their reunion with this revelation: “And there is a type of man who ransoms himself to earn the pleasure of God. And God is full of kindness to His servants.” (Quran 2:207) The Prophet loved Suhayb a great deal and described him as having preceded the Romans to Islam. Suhayb’s piety and standing among the early Muslims was so high that when Caliph Umar was on his deathbed, he selected Suhayb to lead them until they could agree upon a successor. Abdullah the Hebrew The Jews were another nation that the pre-Islamic Arabs held in contempt. Many Jews and Christians had been expecting a new Prophet to appear in Arabia during the time of the Prophet Muhammad. Jews from the Levite tribe in particular had settled in large numbers in and around the city of Medina. However, when the much* anticipated Prophet came, not as a Hebrew son of Israel, but as the Arab descendant of Ishmael, the Jews rejected him. Except, that is, for a few like Hussein bin Salam. Hussein was the most learned rabbi and leader of the Medinan Jews but was denounced and vilified by them when he embraced Islam. The Prophet re-named Husayn, ‘Abdullah’, meaning ‘Servant of God’, and gave him the glad tidings that he was destined for Paradise. Abdullah addressed his tribesmen saying: ‘O assembly of Jews! Be conscious of God and accept what Muhammad has brought. By God! You certainly know that he is God’s Messenger and you can find prophecies about him and mention of his name and characteristics in your Torah. I for my part declare that he is the Messenger of God. I have faith in him and believe that he is true. I (for one) recognize him.’ God revealed the following about Abdullah: “And a witness from the Children of Israel testified to this (Quran being from God) like (the Torah). So he believed while (most of) you (Jews) are too proud (to believe).” (Quran 46:10) Thus, in the ranks of the Prophet Muhammad’s Companions could be found Africans, Persians, Romans and Israelites; representatives of every known continent. As the Prophet said: “Indeed, my friends and allies are not the tribe of so and so. Rather, my friends and allies are the pious, wherever they may be.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari, Saheeh Muslim)

This universal brotherhood preached by Islam was championed by the Prophet’s Companions after him. When the Companion, Ubada bin as-Samit, led a delegation to Muqawqis, the Christian patriarch of Alexandria, the latter exclaimed: ‘Get this black man away from me and bring in his stead another to talk to me! ... How can you be content that a black man should be the foremost among you? Is it not more fitting that he be below you?’ ‘Indeed no!’, Ubada’s comrades replied, ‘Though he is black as you see, he is still the foremost among us in position, intelligence and wisdom; for black is not despised among us.’
“Truly, the Believers are but brothers...” (Quran 49:10)
It is the Hajj, or pilgrimage to Mecca, which remains the ultimate symbol of the oneness and brotherhood of man. Here, rich and poor from all nations stand and bow in unison before God in what is the largest gathering of humanity; testifying to the Prophet’s words when he said:
“There is truly no excellence for an Arab over a non-Arab; or for a non-Arab over an Arab; or for a white man over a black man; or for a black man over a white man; except through piety.” (Ahmad)
And this confirms the Quran, which says:
“O humanity! We have created you from a single male and female and have made you into nations and tribes that you may know one another (not that you have pride over one another). Verily, the most honorable of you in the God’s Sight is the one most pious…” (Quran 49:13)
As for nationalism, with its factionalizing of Muslims along ethnic and tribal lines, it is considered an evil innovation.
“If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your tribe, the wealth you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than God and His Messenger and striving hard in His Cause, then wait until God brings about His Decision. And God guides not a rebellious people.” (Quran 9:24)
The Prophet said:
“... whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for nationalism, calling to nationalism, or assisting nationalism, and dies: then he dies a death of jahiliyya (i.e. pre-Islamic ignorance and disbelief).” (Saheeh Muslim)
Rather, the Quran says:
“While those who disbelieved placed in their hearts pride and haughtiness - the pride and haughtiness of jahiliyya, God sent down His tranquility upon His Messenger and upon the Believers…” (Quran 48:26)
In fact, the Muslims in and of themselves constitute a single body and supra-nation, as the Prophet explained:
“The parable of the Believers in their mutual love and mercy is like that of a living body: if one part feels pain, the whole body suffers in sleeplessness and fever.” (Saheeh Muslim)
The Quran confirms this unity:
“Thus, We have made you (Believers into) a (single) justly-balanced community...” (Quran 2:143)
Perhaps one of the greatest barriers to the acceptance of Islam by many Westerners is the fallacy that it is primarily a religion for Orientals or dark-skinned people. No doubt, the racial injustices against many blacks, be they Abyssinian slaves of pre-Islamic Arabia, or 20th century Afro-Americans, has prompted many to embrace Islam. But this is beside the point. The Prophet Muhammad was himself of whitish complexion, described by his Companions as being ‘white and ruddy’ - a description many tens of millions of believing Arabs, Berbers and Persians share. Even blue-eyed blondes are not so rare amongst Near Easterners. Furthermore, Europe has more indigenous white Muslims than it has ‘colored’ immigrants. The Bosnians, for example, whose numbers were decimated at the end of the 20th century but who, due to their heroism and tradition of tolerance, have contributed most to Balkan peace and stability. Albanians too, descended from Europe’s ancient Illyrians, are also largely Muslim. In fact, one of the 20th century’s leading Muslim scholars, Imam Muhammad Nasir-ud-Deen al-Albani, was, as his title suggests, Albanian.
“Truly, We created humans in the best stature.” (Quran 5:4)
Whites have been called ‘caucasian’ ever since anthropologists declared the Caucasus Mountains, home to Europe’s highest peaks, to be the ‘Cradle of the White Race.’ Today, the natives of these mountains are Muslims. Amongst many a lesser-known tribe of fierce mountaineers and fair maidens are the Circassians famed for their bravery and beauty and who, as Mamluke rulers of Syria and Egypt, helped defend the civilized world and safeguard its holy lands from the ravages of the Mongol hordes. Then there is the brutalized Chechen, arguably the most unwieldy of all God’s creatures, whose tenacity and resistance has helped them avoid the fate of the Circassians. Meanwhile, over 1,000,000 American and North European Caucasian whites - Anglo-Saxons, Franks, Germans, Scandinavians and Celts included - now profess Islam. In fact, Islam peacefully entered parts of Europe before Christianity, when: ‘In times long ago, when the Russian Slav had not yet started to build Christian churches on the Oka nor conquered these places in the name of European civilization, the Bulgar was already listening to the Quran on the banks of the Volga and the Kama.’ (Solov’ev, 1965) [On 16 May 922, Islam became the official state religion of the Volga Bulgars, with whom today’s Bulgarians share a common ancestry.]
Every faith besides Islam calls for the worship of creation in some way, shape or form. Moreover, race and color play a central and divisive role in almost all non-Islamic belief systems. A Christian’s deification of Jesus and the saints or a Buddhist’s deification of Buddha and the Dalai Lamas has people of a particular race and color being worshipped in derogation of God In Judaism, salvation is withheld from the non-Jew Gentile. Hinduism’s caste system likewise checks the spiritual, socio-political and economic aspirations of the ‘unclean’ lower castes. Islam, however, seeks to unite and make one all the creatures of the world upon the Unity and Oneness of their Creator. Thus, Islam alone liberates all peoples, races and colors in the worship of God alone.
“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and the (wonderful) differences of your languages and colors. Verily, in that are indeed signs for people of sound knowledge.” (Quran 30:22)

so yeah the issue of pride be it 'National or tribal, Perian or Arabian very much existed.. Pls. try an abstract thought not a word search!

best,

[Darth Ultor]

Well, in several Islamic countries there's fierce tribal loyalty like in Afghanistan or Iraq.

[جوري]

Well, in several Islamic countries there's fierce tribal loyalty like in Afghanistan or Iraq.

& it is wrong and plain anti-Islamic if they'd only open the books!

[جوري]

Can Muslims be loyal to the Islamic State which is the Caliphate ?

Your loyalty should be to truth & justice even if it be against your own self!

:w:

[Ali_008]

http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/ez/hdth/Nationalism.html

and

[_PakistaN_]

How exactly are you supposed to time travel anyways? How are you supposed to rewind the sun, the moon, planets, the solar system and the whole universe and there can be so much with which we don't know. And how exactly are you going to rewind everything? how are you going to rewind people? How are you going to rewind every atom?

[islamica]

http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/ez/hdth/Nationalism.html

and

I disagree with him.

Pakistan is a country the Indian Muslims demanded because Hindu extremists were getting extreme and forcing Muslims to convert or not letting them practice their deen. Muslims ruled over the hindus for centuries but never forced anyone, thus why hindus are still in the majority. But soon as Hindus started to become in power during British colonial rule, they made life living hell for Muslims. The Pakistan was not a line drawn on the map by the British like arab land was, it was the work of Muslims demanding to be recognized as a separate country from India before British leave.

I"m all for zindabad (love live) Pakistan. It is the Pakistan that improved year after year, fighting against the hindu polytheists for survival. It is Pakistan that is today a superpower waiting to awaken. A superpower the west fears and is doing everything in their power from happening. It is Pakistan that is not helpless of western powers for money, protection, and resources. Despite billions of billions in wealth the Arabs found in their oil, how much did they help the ummah and how much they squandered in their casinos built in kuffar lands. Today these very Arabs look to Pakistan for pride for it's strength and hope for protection against the west when all out war will start. I say Zindabad Pakistan because it is a Muslim nation that stood on it's own feet and stands today where it is by it's own hard work; hard work, something the Arabs never heard of or are afraid to do, especially in the gulf where they get their little pensions to be lazy and abuse, murder and rape the domestic maids and laborers they bring while paying lofty salaries and accommodations to the kuffars they let into land Prophet (S) forbade.

I agree with the speaker about ridding ourselves of nationalism and tribalism. But he is missing the whole bigger picture and mixing everything together. Me saying "Zinadbad Pakistan" does not mean i'm a nationalist. I say zindabad to all Muslim lands and to the Ummah, but I start from where my home is.

[GuestFellow]

It is Pakistan that is today a superpower waiting to awaken.

Salaam,

Ah Pakistan is not a superpower. It has nuclear weapons which it should never use.

Despite billions of billions in wealth the Arabs found in their oil, how much did they help the ummah and how much they squandered in their casinos built in kuffar lands.

Ah did the Pakistan military help the Ummah in 1971? I'm referring to the atrocities committed against Bangladeshis.

A superpower the west fears and is doing everything in their power from happening. It is Pakistan that is not helpless of western powers for money, protection, and resources.

I highly doubt America fears Pakistan. The US military went into Pakistan without the government's permission and killed Osama. That does not sound like fear to me. BTW, Pakistan does accept aid from western countries when natural disasters occur, so it does require some assistance from other countries.

I say Zindabad Pakistan because it is a Muslim nation that stood on it's own feet and stands today where it is by it's own hard work; hard work, something the Arabs never heard of or are afraid to do, especially in the gulf where they get their little pensions to be lazy and abuse, murder and rape the domestic maids and laborers they bring while paying lofty salaries and accommodations to the kuffars they let into land Prophet (S) forbade.

This is why I dislike patriotism/nationalism. It leads to these ridiculous and racist generalisations.

Have you heard about how the Pakistan military raped and murdered Bangladeshi women? Rape, murder and abuse has nothing to do with nationality. Anyone can commit these atrocities.

[Ali_008]

I disagree with him.

Pakistan is a country the Indian Muslims demanded because Hindu extremists were getting extreme and forcing Muslims to convert or not letting them practice their deen. Muslims ruled over the hindus for centuries but never forced anyone, thus why hindus are still in the majority. But soon as Hindus started to become in power during British colonial rule, they made life living hell for Muslims. The Pakistan was not a line drawn on the map by the British like arab land was, it was the work of Muslims demanding to be recognized as a separate country from India before British leave.

I"m all for zindabad (love live) Pakistan. It is the Pakistan that improved year after year, fighting against the hindu polytheists for survival. It is Pakistan that is today a superpower waiting to awaken. A superpower the west fears and is doing everything in their power from happening. It is Pakistan that is not helpless of western powers for money, protection, and resources. Despite billions of billions in wealth the Arabs found in their oil, how much did they help the ummah and how much they squandered in their casinos built in kuffar lands. Today these very Arabs look to Pakistan for pride for it's strength and hope for protection against the west when all out war will start. I say Zindabad Pakistan because it is a Muslim nation that stood on it's own feet and stands today where it is by it's own hard work; hard work, something the Arabs never heard of or are afraid to do, especially in the gulf where they get their little pensions to be lazy and abuse, murder and rape the domestic maids and laborers they bring while paying lofty salaries and accommodations to the kuffars they let into land Prophet (S) forbade.

I agree with the speaker about ridding ourselves of nationalism and tribalism. But he is missing the whole bigger picture and mixing everything together. Me saying "Zinadbad Pakistan" does not mean i'm a nationalist. I say zindabad to all Muslim lands and to the Ummah, but I start from where my home is.

It isn't a matter of Pakistan. The speaker was just giving an example by saying "Pakistan Zindabad". You replace "Pakistan" with any other country in that phrase and the theory will still be applicable. Pakistan is a strong country but is in it's worst state today thanks to Zardari who has turned out to be anything but a leader.

Btw, wasn't the separation of India & Pakistan a result of the divide & rule policy of the British?

Anyway the speaker was warning us of this kind of behavior where the names of countries bring about differences among us.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Pakistan is a country the Indian Muslims demanded because Hindu extremists were getting extreme and forcing Muslims to convert or not letting them practice their deen.
....
I agree with the speaker about ridding ourselves of nationalism and tribalism. But he is missing the whole bigger picture and mixing everything together. Me saying "Zinadbad Pakistan" does not mean i'm a nationalist. I say zindabad to all Muslim lands and to the Ummah, but I start from where my home is.

This is what I call Nationalism! *hmph*

[truthseeker63]

Some Christians I talk to think Muslims worship the Prophet Muhammad can anyone quote from Quran or Hadith where it says the Prophet is not to be worshipped Christians some of them think because they worship Jesus other religions must worship a man or a human too ?

[جوري]

Sahih International
It is not for a human [prophet] that Allah should give him the Scripture and authority and prophethood and then he would say to the people, "Be servants to me rather than Allah ," but [instead, he would say], "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied."

3:80 to top

Sahih International
Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords. Would he order you to disbelief after you had been Muslims?

[MustafaMc]

Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praisd the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle." (Bukhari Book #55, Hadith #654)

[MustafaMc]

The hadith I quoted brought to mind Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go."

[islamica]

Despite what you three say, i still stand by what i said. And i say zindabad to every Muslim nation, long live all Muslim nations and be united as one Ummah one day inshallah. There's a different between patriotism and nationalism, love for one's land and people is patriotism not nationalism.

[Abz2000]

Muhammad is no more than a messenger: many were the messengers that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah; but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.
Quran 3:144

[ardianto]

I can't give the reference right now but once I had come across a Hadith which said "nationalism is one of the coals of hell fire". In Islam, you can love your motherland but don't exaggerate it. You can't discriminate on the basis of geography. Patriotism can only be allowed on a moderate level in Islam.

Nationalism is an ideology that put the state (ironically, not nation) above everything, and put the state law over religious law. Nationalism is based on secularism.

But love the nation is different. If we care to our nation and do something to give the better life for people in our nation, this is means we love our nation. If we always clean up our environment to make our homeland always clean and green, this is means we love our homeland.

Love the nation is not wrong and not forbidden, as long as we do not regard our nation is 'higher' than other nations. And love the homeland is not wrong too. Even many ulama say, fight for defend our homeland against the agressor is jihad.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I admit, I too used to think that Muslims worshipped Mohammed before I knew anything about Islam. Part of this is from the old historical view of Muslims as "Mohammedans".

[truthseeker63]

I found this searching the Hadith.

(1) Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not Exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praised the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle." (Book #55, Hadith #654)

http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHad...earch_word=all

[Ramadhan]

Narrated 'Umar: I heard the Prophet saying, "Do not exaggerate in praising me as the Christians praisd the son of Mary, for I am only a Slave. So, call me the Slave of Allah and His Apostle." (Bukhari Book #55, Hadith #654)

When prophet Jesus (pbuh) said the similar thing, claiming that he was only slave of Allah, the wicked scribes translated into greek as Jesus (pbuh) claiming he was son of Allah.

[truthseeker63]

Is Jesus his English name ?

The proper name Jesus used in the English language originates from the Latin form of the Greek name Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), a rendition of the Hebrew Yeshua (ישוע), also having the variants Joshua or Jeshua.^[1][2] In a religious context the name refers to Jesus, the central figure of Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_(name)

[Darth Ultor]

Most ignorant people I talk to tend to think that Muslims don't actually worship the prophets but give them divine status. Like they see them as superhuman and never did anything wrong in their lives. But we all know the prophets made mistakes just like any other human.

[truthseeker63]

What is sodomity according to Judaism Christianity and or Islam is sodomity anal sex or oral sex between two men or can it be anal sex between man and woman ? Im only asking this question because I

read about Lot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

[truthseeker63]

Are Lesbians punished the sameway that Homosexual Men are punished for sodomity ?

[جوري]

if they're caught I suspect the same punishment for pre-marital or extra-marital affairs would apply here.
Sodomy: Intercourse via the anus, committed by a man with a man or woman

2:222-------------------- And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you.

generally understood that anal intercourse even with your wife is forbidden..

I am NOT a scholar.. so you may wish to ask one..

& Allah swt knows best

[MustafaMc]

Most ignorant people I talk to tend to think that Muslims don't actually worship the prophets but give them divine status. Like they see them as superhuman and never did anything wrong in their lives. But we all know the prophets made mistakes just like any other human.

From Wikipedia:

Worship is an act of religious devotion usually directed towards a deity. ... An act of worship may be performed individually, in an informal or formal group, or by a designated leader. Religious worship happens in a wide variety of locations: in purpose-built places of worship, at home or in the open. Many religious traditions place an emphasis upon regular worship at frequent intervals, often daily or weekly. Expressions of worship vary but typically include one or more of the following: Prayer, meditation, ritual, scripture, sacraments, sacrifice, sermons, chanting, music or devotional song, dance, religious holidays, festivals, pilgrimage, dining, fasting, temples or shrines, idols, or simply private individual acts of devotion.

I can't speak for all Muslims, but I have never met one who worshiped Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) according to the definition above or who thought he was Allah (subhana wa ta ala). We believe that he was a human with the highest and most noble character among men, but we also acknowledge that he was not above making minor mistakes. He was even corrected in the Quran for turning away from the blind man seeking guidance.

Quran 80:1-11 He frowned and turned away because the blind man came unto him. What could inform you but that he might grow (in grace) or take heed and so the reminder might avail him? As for him who thinks himself independent, Unto him you pay regard. Yet it is not your concern if he grows not (in grace). But as for him who came unto you with earnest purpose and has fear, from him you are distracted. Nay, but verily it is an admonishment.

Our acts of worship are devoted to none other than Allah (swt), but we hold Muhammad (saaws) in the highest esteem. We pattern our lives after his and strive to imitate his noble character. You may call this worship if you like, but having also been a Christian I know for a fact that Muslims don't deify Muhammad as the Christians have Jesus.

[Abz2000]

15. If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
16. If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
17. Allah accept the repentance of those who do evil in ignorance and repent soon afterwards; to them will Allah turn in mercy: For Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
18. Of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil, until death faces one of them, and he says, "Now have I repented indeed;" nor of those who die rejecting Faith: for them have We prepared a punishment most grievous.
Quran 4:15-18

so we see that with women - four witnesses are a must (usually public lewdness) and probably also because the honour of women is often whacked just to revile them. (you know the words used to insult women - not the same as those used for men)
with men the burden of proof is a little less clear but since they're the bread-earners, they can't be confined 'til death. however, they are to be punished (probably flogged publicly), and then given the option of turning back.

And Allah knows best

[R.M. Renfield]

My post was deleted. I see freedom of speech is alive and well on this forum! :)

[R.M. Renfield]

so we see that with women - four witnesses are a must (usually public lewdness) and probably also because the honour of women is often whacked just to revile them. (you know the words used to insult women - not the same as those used for men)
with men the burden of proof is a little less clear but since they're the bread-earners, they can't be confined 'til death. however, they are to be punished (probably flogged publicly), and then given the option of turning back.

What if the woman is a bread earner?

[R.M. Renfield]

Yes, time travel to the past is possible. I do it every time I come in here.

[R.M. Renfield]

How exactly are you supposed to time travel anyways? How are you supposed to rewind the sun, the moon, planets, the solar system and the whole universe and there can be so much with which we don't know. And how exactly are you going to rewind everything? how are you going to rewind people? How are you going to rewind every atom?

It's not about 'rewinding' the Universe. When you get on an airplane and travel to the other side of the world, you dpn't expect the earth to shift about, in order to put you at your next destination.

[R.M. Renfield]

hell - these guys are funny.
they don't even know if there's life on mars and they're trying to convince us that they know a planet 72,000 years away is habitable

It's one thing to say that a far away planet could possibly be potentially habitable due to it's make up and position relative to the nearest star... but quite another to say there is life on it. From the evidence it is possible to speculate that life may have once existed on Mars. That's not quite the same as knowing or not knowing if there is life present on Mars today.

[.iman.]

it's a ridiculous notion - if you go back in time - there would be no such thing as the present as it is, and we live in the present.
if you meet someone and spend 5 minutes talking to them, they might not bump into their future spouse, and then total generations would take a different route - it's called the ripple effect.
if you broke someone's leg, they may not become the influential person they were due to a missed speech, and the whole world would be different in just a few generations.
and that would mean the present isn't the present.
the future is another thing,
Allah can get Gabriel (as) take people on a tour of paradise and even show them the condition of people of paradise and hell - and he also took them on (virtual) tours of the future, they gave us many prophecies and described the events in detail.

This was along the lines of my thinking. If Allah SWT wanted us to be able to go back in the past and change things, then he would allow that for us. However, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of mektoub and knowing that He is the one that determines our future?

[جوري]

My post was deleted. I see freedom of speech is alive and well on this forum! :)

Because I flagged it as inappropriate. You want to share your Lewed preferences do it on a porno forum with like minded individuals. People on this forum are fully evolved & civilized.
Beside th OP is interested in the Muslim response not what you like for an exit or an entrance!

[Abz2000]

Women don't have the responsibility in Islam,Under an Islamic state, they were entitled to benefits if their men were absent or unable to provide for them.Not that they're forbidden from earning via lawful and just method

[truthseeker63]

The second method of proving the crime of sodomy is that four just witnesses see it being committed with their own eyes and testify in consonance. If the witnesses are less than four, the testimony is not accepted and the penalty for sodomy is withheld. If less than four people have seen this act, they should not testify. If they do so, they shall themselves become liable for the penalty of “qazaf”. This clause shall be elaborated later. If the guilty repents before the four witnesses testify, the penalty is not imposed and he is not killed. The confession or the testimony should be with regard to the penetration of the anus with the penis, only then the capital punishment is carried out. But if the two men cause ejaculation without penetrating the anus (by pressing the sexual organ between the thighs of another man or by rubbing with the buttocks), then the punishment is a hundred lashes for them.

http://www.*************/greater_sins_complete/16.htm

[Dagless]

If the guilty repents before the four witnesses testify, the penalty is not imposed and he is not killed. The confession or the testimony should be with regard to the penetration of the anus with the penis, only then the capital punishment is carried out. But if the two men cause ejaculation without penetrating the anus (by pressing the sexual organ between the thighs of another man or by rubbing with the buttocks), then the punishment is a hundred lashes for them.

I realise the rules are there so that punishment is only for those who do it openly and without remorse... but it scares me that a situation like this would arise in society. If you've got 2 guys doing it in public then it's bad enough, but for 4 people to then sit there and watch so closely that they can tell if there was penetration or just rubbing between the buttocks is a whole new level. I usually look away if I see people making out.
Sorry if this comment offended anyone.

Btw is the one proven guilty definitely killed? (even if repentant?) Can someone confirm this?

[Abz2000]

it happens on video with videos being sold to thousands, then they openly come out and promote them (a direct admission),
if that's not public, i don't know what is.

[truthseeker63]

Are Lesbians punished if they have oral sex in what way I just wanted to know if Lesbians are punished the sameway that Homosexual Men are ?

[truthseeker63]

The punishment for lesbianism

I know that homosexuality is haram, but I wanted to know
the punishment for it. I was told by a fellow sister that it is the same as if
someone committed zinah. The lashing if you are unmarried, and stoning if your
married. So which is correct for the punishment of this great sin?????.


Praise be to Allaah.

Lesbianism means a woman having sexual relations with another woman. This is undoubtedly haraam, and some scholars regard it as a major sin.

See al-Zawaajir ‘an Iqtiraaf al-Kabaa’ir, no. 362. The imams are agreed that there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism because it is not zina (unlawful sexual intercourse), rather it is to be punished with a ta’zeer punishment in which the judge punishes the one who does that with a punishment which will deter her and others from doing this haraam action. It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (24/252):

The fuqaha’ are agreed that there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism, because it is not zina. Rather a ta’zeer punishment must be imposed, because it is a sin.

Ibn Qudaamah said (9/59): If two women engage in lesbian sexual relations, then they are guilty of zina and are cursed, because it was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a woman has sexual relations with another woman, then they are both guilty of zina.” There is no hadd punishment for them because they did not have intercourse, rather it is likened to intimate relations that are less than intercourse, and they are to be subjected to a ta’zeer punishment. It says in Tuhfat al-Muhtaaj, 9/105: There is no hadd punishment for a woman who has sexual relations with another woman, rather they should be punished with a ta’zeer punishment. Some people think that the punishment for lesbianism is the same as the punishment for zina, because of the hadeeth quoted by Ibn Qudaamah as referred to above.

This hadeeth was narrated by al-Bayhaqi from Abu Moosa (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man has sexual relations with another man, they are both guilty of zina, and if a woman has sexual relations with another woman they are both guilty of zina.”

This hadeeth is da’eef (weak); it was classed as da’eef by al-Albaani in Da’eef al-Jaami’, 282. Al-Shawkaani said in Nayl al-Awtaar (7/287):

Its isnaad includes Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan whom Abu Haatim described as kaadhib (a liar). Al-Bayhaqi said: I do not know him. So the hadeeth is munkar (rejected) with this isnaad. End quote.

Even if the hadeeth were saheeh, it is to be understood as meaning that they are guilty of zina in the sense that they are sinning, not with regard to hadd punishment. This was the view of al-Sarkhasi in al-Mabsoot, 9/78. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every son of Adam has his share of zina. For the eyes may commit zina and their zina is looking; the hands may commit zina and their zina is touching; the feet may commit zina and their zina is walking; the mouth may commit zina and its zina is kissing. The heart desires and wishes and the private parts confirm that or deny it.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, Muslim, and Ahmad. This version narrated by Ahmad, 8321. And Allaah knows best. Secondly: The person who is faced with this problem has to hasten to repent to Allaah, and strive to treat this disease. Some of the ways of treating it are:

- Fearing Allaah and worshipping Him and loving Him sincerely, and being serious about that. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Thus it was, that We might turn away from him evil and illegal sexual intercourse. Surely, he was one of Our chosen, (guided) slaves”[Yoosuf 12:24]

- Lowering the gaze, for this is one of the most effective means of purifying the soul. So if a person sees something that attracts him, he should not look again. - Remembering the dead whose deeds have come to an end, so they are not able to wipe out their bad deeds or do more good deeds. - Keeping oneself busy with beneficial things. - Marriage, and hastening to get married if possible.

Thirdly: Undoubtedly falling into sin and transgressing the sacred limits of Allaah are among the causes of the punishments that befall people en masse or individually. Punishment comes by the will of Allaah because of sin and affects a person in his religious commitment or in his spiritual or physical well-being. These punishments may come in this world, in the grave and in the Hereafter. Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: There are more than fifty types of effects of sin which are dealt with in detail in the book al-Daa’ wa’l-Dawaa’. When discussing the means of being patient in avoiding sin, in his book Tareeq al-Hijratayn, he mentioned that some of the effects of sin are: blackness of face and darkness in the heart; stress, worry, grief, anxiety and hardheartedness; being forsaken by Allaah, so He does not help or support one; sickness in the heart which, if chronic, leads to death, for sins inevitably deaden the heart. Another effect is humiliation after being honoured; feeling alienated after feeling at ease; feeling far away from Allaah after having found peace of mind in Him; poverty after richness, for he was rich and had capital, which is faith, then when he lost his capital he became poor and deprived, and he can only get that wealth back by repenting sincerely and striving hard; loss of provision, for a person is deprived of provision as a result of sins that he commits.A seal and stain on the heart, for when a person commits sin a black spot appears on his heart, but if he repents it disappears.Allaah, His angels and His slaves turn away from him, for when a person turns away from obedience to Allaah and becomes busy with sin, Allaah and His angels turn away from him. In conclusion, the effects of sin are many more than a person can grasp, and the effects of obedience are many more than a person can comprehend. The best of this world and the Hereafter are to be found in obeying Allaah and the worst of this world and the Hereafter are all to be found in disobeying Allaah. And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/21058

[جوري]

I really think you'd have to ask a scholar on that one..

[islamica]

Are Lesbians punished if they have oral sex in what way I just wanted to know if Lesbians are punished the sameway that Homosexual Men are ?

You don't need to worry about the details or types of act. Just the relationship itself and everything that comes within that relationship is haram. Unlike homosexuals, in Lesbianism there is no penetration so it considered only zina and as such scholars have said the punishment is that of a zina.

The imams are agreed that there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism because it is not zina (unlawful sexual intercourse), rather it is to be punished with a ta’zeer punishment in which the judge punishes the one who does that with a punishment which will deter her and others from doing this haraam action.

It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (24/252):
The fuqaha’ are agreed that there is no hadd punishment for lesbianism, because it is not zina. Rather a ta’zeer punishment must be imposed, because it is a sin.

Ibn Qudaamah said (9/59):
If two women engage in lesbian sexual relations, then they are guilty of zina and are cursed, because it was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a woman has sexual relations with another woman, then they are both guilty of zina.” There is no hadd punishment for them because they did not have intercourse, rather it is likened to intimate relations that are less than intercourse, and they are to be subjected to a ta’zeer punishment.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/21058

[truthseeker63]

Yes it is Zina but are Lesbians to be put to death under Sharia like for sodomity Im not saying Lesbianism is good but I don't think it is as bad as male homosexuality.

[islamica]

Yes it is Zina but are Lesbians to be put to death under Sharia like for sodomity Im not saying Lesbianism is good but I don't think it is as bad as male homosexuality.

Just told you, they get punishment of zina (70 lashes) because it's not serious as homosexuality (which involves sodomy).

[truthseeker63]

Ok thank you for your answer.

[جوري]

Thought we'd end this thread on a good note & also because I just learned this and wanted to pass it around:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas (Radi-Allahu 'anhu):

The Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) said, "If anyone of you, when
intending to have a sexual intercourse with his wife, says: 'Bismillah,
Allahumma jannibna-sh-shaitan, wa jannibi-sh-shaitan ma razaqtana,' and if
the couple are destined to have a child (out of that very sexual relation),
then Satan will never be able to harm that child."

Bukhari Vol. 8 : No. 397

[crimsontide06]

If time travel was possible, wouldn't people be coming from the future to tell us about it :P

[truthseeker63]

According to Islam did King Solomon build a Holy Mosque in Jerusalem ? Who built the farthest Mosque in Jerusalem ?

The Mosque in Jerusalem

Muslims believe that Masjid al Aqsa (the Holy Mosque in Jerusalem) was rebuilt or expanded by King Solomon. According to Islamic history, Prophet Jacob, built Masjid al Aqsa approximately 40 years after his grandfather Prophet Abraham built the House of God in Mecca. Islam totally rejects the notion that King Solomon built a temple on the Masjid al Aqsa site, and herein lays one of the basic differences between Jewish and Islamic belief. It is what causes some of the dilemmas that exist in the Holy Land today. Although a Prophet in all three monotheistic religions, small differences about the nature and history of Solomon have, over time, created great divides.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/2501/

Surat Al-'Isrā' (The Night Journey) - سورة الإسراء


Sahih International
Exalted is He who took His Servant by night from al-Masjid al-Haram to al-Masjid al- Aqsa, whose surroundings We have blessed, to show him of Our signs. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Seeing.



http://quran.com/search?q=+Mosque+&page=2
http://quran.com/17/1

... 10, Page 204] Who took His slave (Muhammad SAW) for a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah) to the farthest mosque (in Jerusalem), the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him (Muhammad SAW) of Our Ayat (proofs, ...

[truthseeker63]

I know in Islam war and fighting is allowed but does Islamic texts such as the Holy Quran or the Hadith say not to target civilians ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian

[Ramadhan]

Since you are so fond of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic..._jurisprudence

[truthseeker63]

Thanks for the link.

[truthseeker63]

Are Muslims allowed to oppress Non Muslims ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression

[جوري]

If time travel was possible, wouldn't people be coming from the future to tell us about it :P

once they come back their concerns are completely focused on their doppelganger that almost all of them end up on the psych ward with delusions of persecution and the other ten percent prefer the future..

[Ramadhan]

Are Muslims allowed to oppress Non Muslims ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression

No. Muslims are commanded to be just.

[truthseeker63]

What do you think of the idea of comparing the Trinity to a shamrock and or a triangle since these are 3 in 1 ? Aldo in Islam is God a personal being meaning God has a mind and also since God is a personal being and the Trinity has 3 persons would this then mean that the 3 personal beings are 3 gods thanks is a reason as to why Jesus can't perfect God and perect man/human at the sametime is because this would be a contradiction and God does not contradict himdself it is not in his nature does the Holy Quran and or the Hadith say God does not contradict himself ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle

[Ali_008]

That question is better suited for Christians. We Muslims never believed in trinity and hence don't even consider it worth comparing it to shamrock or clover leaf. I forgot the botanical term for those leaves that are parted in 3, 4, 5 and even 10. There are leaves that even have 10 divisions then should we also evaluate 10 God theory of some other religion with those leaves?

[truthseeker63]

Would you agree that the fact that the Bible and the Quran both say Jesus was born to a human mother and was killed on a cross according to Christianity and there were people who wanted to kill him according to Islam proves that Jesus was a human not God appearing as a man and that Jesus did things humans do like eat food ?

[truthseeker63]

As some of you may know I have Asperger's syndrome and I am viewed as disabled by the state anyway I live with my family/parents I am planning on moving out to an apartment/flat as it is called in the UK I will try to live on my own after the Holidays the only reason I am posting this is because I would like to ask the people here to pray fo me that I won't fail trying to live on my own I will get money from SSI to help me pay rent anyway my family thinks I want to be a Muslim and convert/revert to Islam to rebel or something I am 24 years old and I think I should have the right to choose my own religion/way of life I also just want indepence in my life one reason as to why I have depression is because I live with my family I think Islam is the most beautiful religion. Here is my favorite website.

http://www.islamreligion.com/

[Ramadhan]

^ May Allah SWT give you guidance and strength, brother. Ameen.

[truthseeker63]

Thank you.

[truthseeker63]

I am moving out I have plans.

[truthseeker63]

Thanks for your reply.

[truthseeker63]

I do plan on convert/reverting to Islam but I still live with my parents they have many haraam things in their home such as alcohol Im not sure if this matters or not but as I told I am viewed as disabled by the state I plan of moving out of my parents home after january first I will be living in the area I told my parents about my desire to become a Muslim they don't mind I also wanted to say God bless you. I hope it is ok if I use the word God I know Allah is the correct word for God in Arabic.Here is the link of the IMAM that I have emailed in my area about converting/reverting.http://icjc.org/imam.html

[marwen]

That's a good news brother. May Allah guide you and make things easy for you.
Let us know about your conversion if you do.

[truthseeker63]

Thanks for your support.

[Grace Seeker]

As some of you may know I have Asperger's syndrome and I am viewed as disabled by the state anyway I live with my family/parents I am planning on moving out to an apartment/flat as it is called in the UK I will try to live on my own after the Holidays the only reason I am posting this is because I would like to ask the people here to pray fo me that I won't fail trying to live on my own I will get money from SSI to help me pay rent anyway my family thinks I want to be a Muslim and convert/revert to Islam to rebel or something I am 24 years old and I think I should have the right to choose my own religion/way of life I also just want indepence in my life one reason as to why I have depression is because I live with my family I think Islam is the most beautiful religion. Here is my favorite website.http://www.islamreligion.com/

Good luck with your move. Praying that you will be able to accomplish it with a minimum of trouble. I agree with you that it is important that you make this effort. You want to learn independence, not dependence. Your family knows this in their hearts as well; it's just hard for them to let go. They don't want anything to happen to you, and parents have a way of fearing the worst rather than imagining the best. But of course the true worst is hard for them to concede -- that of them having trained you to be eternally dependent on them and then them not being their for you some day presently in the distant (and unthought of) future. So, God speed you as you begin this next important chapter of your life. And as for religion, may God simply guide you to the place he was for you in his eternal plan. I imagine you are a better judge of that than anyone else.

[truthseeker63]

How does Islam define sexual intercourse is sexual intercourse when the penis enters vagina or can fingering count as sexual intercourse ? Can anyone define the word intercourse and how do you know what intercourse means thanks any person of any religion can answer ?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&rlz=1R2...w=1280&bih=796

[User29123]

How does Islam define sexual intercourse is sexual intercourse when the penis enters vagina or can fingering count as sexual intercourse ? Can anyone define the word intercourse and how do you know what intercourse means thanks any person of any religion can answer ?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&rlz=1R2...w=1280&bih=796

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_anal_sex


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_of_oral_sex

Someone else may want to clear it up last time it said oral sex was allowed now it says not..

[truthseeker63]

I notice from talking to many Muslims online that many of them seem to believe that the Jews control and run everything from the Media to the Government to the Banks. I don't believe this about Jews I am anti Zionism but I blame powerful wealthy leaders and people of all races religions and nations. I just think Muslims should try to do Dawah to the Jews and not hate all Jews for what the evil Zionists are doing in Palestine. I hope it is ok if I post something from this forum below.

Salaam,

One thing Ithat really bothers me is that a lot of Muslims I talk to are really anti-jewish. I am a convert to Islam (forever a 'new muslim') and I am ethnically jewish. It really bothers me when especially tablighis who are not supposed to say anything about any group, talk about the Jews as if they are sub-human, unable of understanding truth even if it hit them in the face. I have heard them deny that the holocaust ever happened, I've been told that all Jews are evil and can't be trusted at all, etc. You should see the look on their faces when I say that I'm a Jewish Muslim.
A fact is a fact; the Jewish religion (which is pharieism really) is a satanic religion, and the zionist movement (started by atheists and supported by Hitler) are forces of shaitan. I get it and I believe it one hundred percent. But when muslims start buying into this idea that Jews control everything in the world and all the events that take place in the world have been orchastrated in someway by the Jews (echoing the nazi and skinhead ideas), this to me is borderline shirk if not clear shirk. Only Allah controls these, only Allah is the doer of each and everything. Allah is the one sending the conditions and the circumstances on the Muslims, not Jews, not Israel. Who has given them permission to persucute the Muslims? Allah has. We go away from Allah, we outwardly say we are Muslim but really we have practiced jahiliyya, and we think that Allah is pleased with us or that we are garunteed jannah because we come from 'pakistan' or 'saudi arabia'.
I remember my friend telling me that in raiwind he was with a jew who had converted to Islam and this person was to give bayan to the arabs (my friend who has since passed away, rahmatullah 'alaih, translated into arabic). He said in the bayan clearly that the arabs had become the cobra sitting untop of the treasure do to their anti-semitic and racist tendencies. I hope by Allah that we correct ourselves be for we are destroyed.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...e-Muslim/page5

[truthseeker63]

I have become a Muslim if anyone wants to see my Shahada here it is on youtube.

Brother Casey Accepts Islam!

Uploaded by Mohamedelhousiny24 on Jan 13, 2012MashAllah, Brother Casey found the truth and accepted Islam today after isha prayer at the Islamic Center of Johnson County!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4bq4K5tlw

[Hamza Asadullah]

I have become a Muslim if anyone wants to see my Shahada here it is on youtube.

Brother Casey Accepts Islam!

Uploaded by Mohamedelhousiny24 on Jan 13, 2012MashAllah, Brother Casey found the truth and accepted Islam today after isha prayer at the Islamic Center of Johnson County!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4bq4K5tlw

:sl:


Mashallah congratulations my brother this is great news. We have been waiting for such a news for a while now and finally it has come. We are very happy that you have entered the fold of Islam and that you are finally a Muslim.

May Allah make you of his closest servants and help you on this journey. Have you chosen a name yet? Please do let us know if you need help with anything at all.

[IslamicRevival]

I have become a Muslim if anyone wants to see my Shahada here it is on youtube.

Delightful news :) I haven't contributed to this thread but its clear from skimming through the pages you've done a lot of soul searching to find the true path

Congratulations!

[Ramadhan]

I have become a Muslim if anyone wants to see my Shahada here it is on youtube.

Brother Casey Accepts Islam!

Uploaded by Mohamedelhousiny24 on Jan 13, 2012MashAllah, Brother Casey found the truth and accepted Islam today after isha prayer at the Islamic Center of Johnson County!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4bq4K5tlw

Allaahu Akbar!

welcome back to Islam, my brother.

May Allah bless you richly and give you the best in this world and hereafter and make you steadfast in your deen. Ameen.
I am so happy for you.

[MustafaMc]

Assalamu alaikum, Allahu akbar! God is great!

Congratulations on becoming a Muslim. Welcome to Islam.

The testimony of faith is the most important part of becoming a Muslim and that comes from believing that 1) God is One (Allah) without father, mother, son, daughter or equal in any way, and 2) Muhammad is the messenger, prophet and servant of Allah. The later is important as we accept the Quran as Allah's word revealed to Muhammad and we look toward the teachings and life of Muhammad as the pattern for how we should live our lives.

I legally changed my name eight years ago to Mustafa, which means 'chosen' and it is one of the names by which Muhammad was known. It is not required for a revert to change his name to an Islamic one unless his birth name is inappropriate like one of my nieces named 'Christian'. I changed my name as a final step of commitment to Islam from which there was no turning back. I became a Muslim 30 years ago, but I spent 15 of those not practicing Islam. God willing (insh'Allah) I will never leave practicing Islam again.

There is much to learn and I encourage you to take it slow while at the same time learning as much as you can daily. Try not to get discouraged as learning the Arabic for prayer can be quite difficult.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:


Alhamdulillah .

:statisfie

[marwen]

Alhamdulillah! Allahu Akbar ! Allahu Akbar !
May Allah keep you on the right path brother.

[Insaanah]

Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh brother

(May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you).

MaashaAllah, this is the wonderful news we were all waiting for.

May Allah guide you, make things easy for you, and keep you steadfast, and give you the best of this world and the hereafter, ameen.

Remember we're all here to help you in any way we can.

Ameen to all the above du'as.

Peace.

[- Qatada -]

:salamext: Alhamdulillah! :D this is well good news.

[truthseeker63]

I want to know if I can drink non alcoholic beer/wine. I have seen non alcoholic beer/wine that is 0.0% alcohol. I have also heard some Muslims say that non alcoholic beer/wine is haram because they claim you can never remove 100% of the alcohol is this true ?



Non-alcoholic beer in Islamic countries

Islam prohibits the consumption of alcoholic beverages.[26] However, there is disagreement among scholars of Islam about the consumption of non-alcoholic beer.[27]

Possibly because of this disagreement, alcohol-free (0% ABV) beers, (e.g. Holsten, Barbican and Moussy) are often available in stores and restaurants that cater to an Islamic customer base. They are also popular in countries that enforce alcohol prohibition, such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iran. They are often available with added flavors (apple, strawberry, and peach).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/​Low-alcohol_beer

Is non-alcoholic beer halal? Can Muslims consume it?

Uploaded by icislam on May 10, 2009


Lot of Muslims think non-alcoholic beer halal.


Dear Fellow Chefs & Culinarians & Viewers,
Wonderful new product. Alcohol free wine, suitable for Muslim,Mormons,Southern Baptists & recovering alcoholics. The owner/inventor needs donations to start marketing this product. Have a peek at his site and watch the video. Please pass this around if you dig it

P.S.This product would be permissible according to the Hanafi madhab being it was dehydrated...


​
See More




The Official Website of Yousef al-Khattab
www.yousefalkhattab.com

[- Qatada -]

Asalaamu alaykum (peace be upon you) brother truthseeker. :) ask a brother who has alot of knowledge called Ayman bin khaled here: http://ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe

[Asiyah3]

Peace and blessings of Allah be upon you, our brother.

We are glad to be able to hear this wonderful news. May Allah reward you and keep you steadfast, and grant you success in this life and the Hereafter.

[truthseeker63]

Could anyone help me or give me any video or link or audio to help me learn to say and repeat Al-Fatiha in Arabic ?

[Hamza Asadullah]

Could anyone help me or give me any video or link or audio to help me learn to say and repeat Al-Fatiha in Arabic ?

:sl:

Brother i think it would be far better for you to take lessons regarding how to pray and recite Qur'an directly from a teacher at your local Masjid. Can you not get hold of such a teacher at your local Masjid?

This site may help in the meanwhile:

http://www.quran101.com/

Scroll down a bit and click on Al Fatiha and you will be able to download and listen to a man reciting the surah slowly so that you can begin to learn it.

[syilla]

I have become a Muslim if anyone wants to see my Shahada here it is on youtube.

Brother Casey Accepts Islam!

Uploaded by Mohamedelhousiny24 on Jan 13, 2012MashAllah, Brother Casey found the truth and accepted Islam today after isha prayer at the Islamic Center of Johnson County!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S4bq4K5tlw

subhanallah i've watched the video... jazakallah khayr for sharing with us. i'm so very sorry for neglecting this thread

[ardianto]

I didn't know something has been happened. Alhamdulillah.

And to brother Truthseeker, let me greet you, Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, yaa akhee.

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

I can't watch video because of slow internet connection . Hope it's a good one.

New Muslim Instititue's Founder/Director Uncle Samir doing a slow practice of Sura Al Fatihah the 1st Sura(chapter) in Quran. Sura Al Fatihah is the foundation of the Salaat (prayer) that Muslims must make 5 times daily. This is a good video to practice and learn with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66iOsdWmDOw

[syilla]

akhii...how are you doing after your shahadah or these few days becoming muslim. anything different? please share all the emotions or anything lol. at least the tinniest bit.

[truthseeker63]

Does the Quran and or the Hadith say that the Israelites or the Children of Israel were enslaved or slaves or oppressed in Egypt can anyone give me any verses was Joseph sold into Slavery ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

[truthseeker63]

What does Islam say those people who sin out of ignorance and those who are ignorant that the things they did in the past were sins like zina I know zina is wrong but I did not always not it was wong Im not saying that I have done this but I will use zina as an example a Muslim told me that people are not punished for sins if they are ignorant is this true ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance

[truthseeker63]

What would a Sharia Court say about this subject ?

[truthseeker63]

Is art/paintings of humans ever allowed in Islam ? Centuries ago there were no filming or photos therefor they had paintings. Im asking if there are any exceptions ? Im not asking if it is ok to look at paintings of Prophets I know this is haram. Im asking if it is halal ever to look at a painting of George Washington for example an Founding Father of the United States they did not have television back then ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundin..._United_States

[truthseeker63]

Is ethnic pride allowed in Islam ? I am of White or European ethnic background I am proud to be of English blood from England. I am not a White Supremacist I don't believe or promote the idea of 100% racial purity but races do exist right ? I meet Black People who are proud of their ethnic group the samething with Arabs Pakistanis and or Asians why can't Europeans have ethnic pride ? Im not saying that I want America or Europe to deport Non White People but I believe all skin colors and races are welcome to live in whatever nation they want I just want to right to be proud of my background. I did find this thread.

National Socialism and Islam

[truthseeker63]

The only reason as to why I posted this is because I found out about a sect called the Nation of Islam lead by Louis Farrakhan they believe that all White People are the Devil. I am not proud of being White since it was not my choice to be born White. I have prayed with Muslims who are Black or African Americans I'll never had them say I could not be a Muslim because im White. I just want to make it clear that Im not a racist or anything like that I believe that our identity as humans should be based on what we believe our religions and what we believe happens after death rather then our race skin colors or nationalism.

Farrakhan Says White Race is Devil! (Obama/Wright)

Uploaded by SoNSanDiego on Dec 20, 2009
Louis Farrakhan declares that the white race is a race of devils. This is a central part of the theology of Farrakhan's Nation of Islam sect. They believe that the black race is God and that their founder, Fard Muhammad, is Allah in the flesh.

Obama's church has a similar racist doctrine that is actually derived largely from the theology of the Nation of Isam. Farrakhan publically announced that Obama is the Black Messiah, who in their theology will judge and destroy the white race.

Farrakhan Says White Race is Devil! (Obama/Wright) - YouTube

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:



Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) Farewell Sermon


All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.

http://www.islamicity.com/articles/A...ref=ic0107-322

[Muslim Woman]

:sl:

can anyone give me any verses was Joseph sold into Slavery ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

Yusuf | Joseph | chpater 12

19	And there came a caravan of travellers and they sent their water-drawer, and he let down his bucket (into the well). He said: "What good news! Here is a boy." So they hid him as merchandise (a slave). And Allah was the All-Knower of what they did.
	20	And they sold him for a low price - for a few Dirhams (i.e. for a few silver coins). And they were of those who regarded him insignificant.

The Story of Joseph (part 3 of 7): Sold into Slavery



http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1815/

[truthseeker63]

My view on punishing adultery is that it must be outlawed also a Imam told me that Muslims should try to hide cover up keep all sins secret is he right ? I know adultery is punished with death in a Sharia Court but my question is if two people commited adultery behide closed doors without any witnessess and keep it secret and never confess on their own are they not punished in this life but punished in the next life I was told that adultery is punished if it is made public. The reason I ask is because many Christians and Jews as well say Islam is wrong to punish adultery in this life ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secrecy

[truthseeker63]

What do you think of the idea of comparing the Trinity to a shamrock and or a triangle since these are 3 in 1 ? Aldo in Islam is God a personal being meaning God has a mind and also since God is a personal being and the Trinity has 3 persons would this then mean that the 3 personal beings are 3 gods thanks is a reason as to why Jesus can't perfect God and perect man/human at the sametime is because this would be a contradiction and God does not contradict himdself it is not in his nature does the Holy Quran and or the Hadith say God does not contradict himself ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle

[truthseeker63]

This is a humoristic semi-serious treatise on the Trinity from a perspective of mathematical theology. :-) !!

And how could it be otherwise, this one matheological revelation will come to you in three parts.

Dedicated to all the great Muslim mathematicians of
all time = the past + the present + the future!
[one time] [another time] [and one more time]


Analogies can be misleading, but they are
the least misleading thing that we have.
Samuel Butler

One of the recurring ways of ridiculing the Trinity from the Muslim side (and some others too) is to present the equation

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

and then smile and think that is enough to expose the utter craziness of the concept and showing the completely illogical content of the Christian faith.

Now, it seems that the people which use this kind of reasoning are apparently stuck in their preschool education and have never heard that there are other operations one can perform on numbers than just addition.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

wouldn't lend itself quite as well for the effect those people want to achieve. And the Trinity is a powerful revelation of the Almighty God, so "raising to the power of a number" might be an appropriate 'composition' for relating the 'three Ones' mathematically, which is giving us....

See the rest of the article.


Does make sense 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 is like 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 I always thought a way to disprove the Trinity was 1+1+1=3 would disprove the Christian Trinity of 1+1+1=1 am I wrong ?

[truthseeker63]

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(1of2)

Uploaded by islamicthinkers on Jul 3, 2009
Islamic Thinkers Society Demonstrating against the NYC Gay parade in 2008. May Allah s.w.t. the Creator be a witness over our deeds as we tried to forbid this evil with our tongues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3U2g...8&feature=plcp

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(2of2)
Uploaded by islamicthinkers on Jul 3, 2009
Islamic Thinkers Society Demonstrating against the NYC Gay parade in 2008. May Allah s.w.t. the Creator be a witness over our deeds as we tried to forbid this evil with our tongues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04zQ...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/user/islamicthinkers

[truthseeker63]

Why do some Jews and Christians think that Homosexuality is not a sin ? I'll never met a Muslim who thought Homosexuality was halal but there are Homosexuals who claim to be Jewish and or Christian this makes no sense to me because the God of Abraham in both the Bible and the Quran says Homosexuality is evil.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_Abraham

[truthseeker63]

Is it haram for a Muslim to read the Bible ? I believe that the Bible still has some truths in it there are verses in the Bible that agree with Islam also I think the God of the Bible is the same God as the God of Islam. I just can't reject every verse in the Bible as corrupt. There are Jews and Christians who admit that the Bible has errors in it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Bible

['Abd-al Latif]

Bro are you a new Muslim?

[truthseeker63]

Anjem Choudary: Killing of Non Muslims is Legitimate

It is very easy to defend Islamic terrorism: non-Muslims are guilty of not having accepted Islam. Therefore, killing non-Muslims is not killing innocent people. If you just accept this, it becomes all very logical. Can you accept it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69cvALxgU-Q

Is he correct ?

[truthseeker63]

Chilling Islamic Demonstration over Danish Cartoons in London

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41us_Ix3m0w

Sorry but I must say that I think it is sick that people would call for Europe to be bombed and nuked and call for the blood of Danish People. Im not saying that the Danish cartoons were good but why not just hate the person who made those cartoons not a entire nation.

[Snowflake]

No!

The Qur'an says:

["Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)]


Muslims are only commanded to fight those who attack them.


“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for terrorism is worse than killing. But do not engage in combat with them at the sacred mosque unless they engage you in combat there. But if they combat against you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And combat them on until there is no more terrorism or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, don't let there be hostility except to those who practice oppression.”
[Surah al-Baqarah: 190-193]


But..

"If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge." [Al-Qur'an 9:6]

8:61 But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that hears and knows (all things).




Anjem Choudary... May Allah give him hidayah!

[Darth Ultor]

I have a better idea. Sell it or donatee it to a church. Never throw books away.

[truthseeker63]

On the day of the 9-11 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attacks would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good…….Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)"

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...eisraelis.html

[Ramadan90]

If your certainty in Islam is strong then I think you should keep it. Learning about other religions is strongly encouraged. On the other hand, if you belief in Islam is not stable and strong then I would say give it away or sell it.

[Predator]

9/11 was an inside job. I have read that the Jews had not turned up work on that day and Israel has benefited the most with the wars in iraq for their bogus search for WMD and now with an upcoming war with Iran

[ardianto]

If we want other people treat our holy book nicely, we must treat other people holy book nicely too. Don't throw away that Bible. You can donate it, or if you want to keep it, you can keep it.

[truthseeker63]

The Truth About 9-11How Jewish Manipulation Killed ThousandsBy Matt Hale (P.O.W.)

The intricate details will be shown of what truly occurred on that terrible day when people were burnt alive and crushed under tons of rubble.

http://www.resist.com/Articles/liter...byMattHale.htm

[truthseeker63]

Interview With Osama bin Laden. Denies His Involvement in 9/11
Full text of Pakistani paper's Sept 2001 "exclusive" interview

Daily Ummat in Urdu, BBC translation in English, 2001

Ummat: You have been accused of involvement in the attacks in New York and Washington. What do you want to say about this? If you are not involved, who might be?
Usamah [Osama bin Laden]: In the name of Allah, the most beneficent, the most merciful. Praise be to Allah, Who is the creator of the whole universe and Who made the earth as an abode for peace, for the whole mankind. Allah is the Sustainer, who sent Prophet Muhammad for our guidance. I am thankful to the Ummat Group of Publications, which gave me the opportunity to convey my viewpoint to the people, particularly the valiant and Momin true Muslim people of Pakistan who refused to believe in lie of the demon.
I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children, and other people.

Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle. It is the United States, which is perpetrating every maltreatment on women, children, and common people of other faiths, particularly the followers of Islam. All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.
There is also a warning for those Muslim countries, which witnessed all these as a silent spectator. What had earlier been done to the innocent people of Iraq, Chechnya, and Bosnia?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rep2/obl-2001-interview.html

[MustafaMc]

Since I am a Muslim now do I have to throw away my Bible ?
Is it haram for a Muslim to read the Bible ?

I have several Bibles, including the one I read extensively when I was in college before becoming a Muslim. No, you don't have to discard your Bible, but I most definitely would not put it on equal footing with the Quran. I reread the NT after I decided to practice Islam in 2001 and I was able to see some things for the first time, like the struggle between Paul (faith) and Jesus' disciples (works) in Galatians and how Paul had claimed to receive a revelation from God.

I believe that the Bible still has some truths in it there are verses in the Bible that agree with Islam also I think the God of the Bible is the same God as the God of Islam. I just can't reject every verse in the Bible as corrupt. There are Jews and Christians who admit that the Bible has errors in it.

I agree there are bits and pieces of truth preserved in the Bible. For myself, I believe that the 'Good News' that Jesus talked about was the prophecy about the coming of Prophet Muhammad (saaws). This is how I interpret the 'Comforter' or 'Counselor' Jesus spoke about in the Gospel of John.

[Who Am I?]

:sl:

I still have my Bible. I still read my Bible. When taken together with the Qur'an, it helps flesh out some details of stories of some of the prophets, not to mention the fact that it also has some good truths and principles for living.

David for example is one of my favorite prophets. He was a skilled warrior and a leader of men, yet humble enough to admit his mistakes. He wrote many of the Psalms in the Bible, and most of them have Islamic principles.

Plus some of the verses are cool to memorize. ;D

[aadil77]

Plus some of the verses are cool to memorize. ;D

yeah I love the sound of old english verses

[Scimitar]

What he said under me!

[Abu.Yusuf]

If you want to read it in order to give Dawah to Christians, then you can do so.
However, if you want to keep it, while wanting to follow it as well as the Qur`aan, then you should not keep it. Remember, Umar bin Al-Khattab was stronger rebuked by the Prophet [saw] for reading the book of the christians [or jews - i cant remember which book it was].

As muslims, theres no need to go to anything else, the Qur`aan is sufficient. And even if you want to give dawah, personally i would not read the bible. Rather i would read books by Muslims who have refuted the Christians using their own book. You can refer to ibn Taymiyas book, Ahmad Deedat or even Zakir naik and others. Yusha Evans is a very good as well.

[ardianto]

yeah I love the sound of old english verses

Is "thou shalt" old English?

[Scimitar]

If you want to read it in order to give Dawah to Christians, then you can do so.
However, if you want to keep it, while wanting to follow it as well as the Qur`aan, then you should not keep it. Remember, Umar bin Al-Khattab was stronger rebuked by the Prophet [saw] for reading the book of the christians [or jews - i cant remember which book it was].

As muslims, theres no need to go to anything else, the Qur`aan is sufficient. And even if you want to give dawah, personally i would not read the bible. Rather i would read books by Muslims who have refuted the Christians using their own book. You can refer to ibn Taymiyas book, Ahmad Deedat or even Zakir naik and others. Yusha Evans is a very good as well.

Also, with regards to the Prophets, there is this book that I highly recommend by Ibn Kathir. The Stories of the Prophets (Qisas al Anbiya) you can download this in pdf, here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3029763/Stories-of-the-Prophets-Ibn-Kathir

Scimi