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Beardo
07-01-2011, 07:17 PM
This is an awkward question, but here it goes anyway.

Would you befriend a gay person? Why or why not? They're a growing population at my school, and I was wondering... I mean, would you be buddies with them or just keep it at a classmate relationship?
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May Ayob
07-01-2011, 07:28 PM
Salaam
Would I befriend?
Maybe because if the person is good i wouldn't want to treat them badly because of this..I would also be interested in helping the person , I don't think we should be seperating people...so it depends as long as I have my opinions and they are respected and I am willing to help the person and the person is open minded I don't have a problem.
Why?
Because treating people with eqaulity would make life much easier , make us understand each other more , and maybe it;s something out of their hands i would want to judge them,I would also stand up for the person if they're getting bullied or teased but i wouldn't stand up or speak for "rights" because i don't support them. As long as there is respect we should treat people in the best manner we can give. We should never laugh or take advantage of other people's problems...

Ps-Are you in high school?

Salaam
Reply

Perseveranze
07-01-2011, 07:36 PM
No, because that isn't going to end up well. Being nice is pretty much mandatory and I'll always give that, but friendship is out of question.
Reply

Who Am I?
07-01-2011, 07:48 PM
I treat them just like any other person, but I don't go out of my way to befriend them.
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Starrynight
07-01-2011, 08:06 PM
Judge them on their kindness, not on being gay. Being gay is just a part of who they are, as being Muslim is just a part of who you are. How would you like it if someone wouldn't be friends with you just because you were Muslim?
Good friends are hard to come by nowadays. If you find someone who accepts you for who you are, then you should accept them for who they are. Leave the judging up to God.
Reply

sister herb
07-01-2011, 08:29 PM
I think "gay friend" may be both male and female?
Reply

GuestFellow
07-01-2011, 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Beardo
This is an awkward question, but here it goes anyway.

Would you befriend a gay person? Why or why not? They're a growing population at my school, and I was wondering... I mean, would you be buddies with them or just keep it at a classmate relationship?
Salaam,

I would make friends with anyone as long as they are not hostile to me or Islam. I have a relative who is gay and he's normal.
Reply

ardianto
07-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I had some transsexual fiends when I was young and I had no problem with them. Even two of them were good persons, they had left their wrong behavior, always dressed as men although still feminine, and their good side was they never missed salah.

Transsexual men have feeling to men, but if we accept them as friends, they will respect us and will never do something wrong.

But be friend with 'masculine gays' ?. From my experience, it's better if we avoid them, especially if you are attractive man. But the problem is, sometime we don't know if someone is a gay until he look at us with loving gaze and praise us with many many beautiful words. :D

By the way, a masculine gay who attracted to me when I was in mid 20's age was civil engineer, rich, mustached, handsome, and few years older. But, ........ no thanks ! I am a normal man !.
Reply

Darth Ultor
07-02-2011, 10:17 AM
I judge people by who they are not by what they are.
Reply

~ Miss Pink ~
07-02-2011, 10:38 AM
Actually i don`t have anything against gay people if they were good , i fully realize that what they are doing is wrong , but treating them nicely is a must since every human should be treated kindly. But being a friend with them is not an opstion for me ...... What if they got attracted to me? thus i prefer keeping a space ...Allahulmusta`aan ! :S !
Reply

Riana17
07-02-2011, 11:13 AM
Salam

I have nothing against them really but personally they will not be a good friend... for a Muslimah especially
Reply

ardianto
07-02-2011, 12:11 PM
I have a male friend who I know since my childhood. Some people said he is gay although I am not sure because he never did something wrong to me or to his other friends. But I see something strange with his marriage life, he had married four times but always ended with divorce several months later. I never avoid him although I never meet him again since few years later.

But if I say, it's better if we avoid 'masculine gays', it's based on my experience. In my mid 20's age I established a small company and made me meet many new persons such as customers or representatives from other companies. And few of them did something 'strange' to me like looked at me with loving gaze, invited me to meet in hotel room, etc. Even one of them (that civil engineer) tried to approach me like a woman who fell in love to a man.

So, brothers, be careful if a man who known as gay, or a man that look attracted to you want to be your friend. Remember, same like women, they also have a feeling to men.
Reply

Endymion
07-02-2011, 12:29 PM
Assalam Alekum.

I read the story of Banu Israeel who use to hunt on saturday while it was forbidden to catch fishes on saturday.

“And ask them (O Muhammad) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah)

And when a community among them said: ‘Why do you preach to a people whom Allaah is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment?’ (The preachers) said: ‘In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allaah), and perhaps they may fear Allaah.’

So when they forgot the reminders that had been given to them, We rescued those who forbade evil, but with a severe torment We seized those who did wrong because they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah).

So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected’”

[al-A’raaf 7:163-166]

I read in the interpretation that those people divided into 3 groups.
1)Who transgress and catch fishes on Saturday.
2)Who did not catch fishes but they freely meet and mingle with people who transgress.
3)Those who neither catch fishes nor meet with the disobedient people, they cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT.

When Allah SWT sent his torments,He SWT turned both the groups 1 and 2 into Monkeys and pigs and rescued the third party.He punish the group 2 as well because they did not cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT and did not scare them from the hell fire.
The moral of this story,according to my understanding is,when people disobey Allah SWT and commit severe crimes and let people know about their sins,and do not shy on them,one should cut off their relations with them.Frist,try to convince them that they are doing wrong and try to stop them and when they dont listen to you and keep on doing wrong deeds,one should stop meeting with such people.
We are the people who are here to stop people from wrong deeds and invite them towards good.We should not not take such serious crimes as a normal thing.Allah SWT destroyed the whole nation of Lut AS for perversion.If people are going back to the time of Jahilliyah,we should try to stop them and if we are unable to do that,we should simply stop meeting them and stop taking such a serious crime as a normal thing.
Reply

tigerkhan
07-02-2011, 02:04 PM
^ totally agree.
and i personally like company of ppl who are pure and avoid such shameless activities. when i think of this same gender sex, i feel i will vomit.
i think this fitna is more in west. in pakistan the sodomy or gay ppl are considerd as most wrost ppl of world. if someone is known to involved in such activity, ppl even dont salam/meet him
Reply

GuestFellow
07-02-2011, 02:26 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by ardianto
But I see something strange with his marriage life, he had married four times but always ended with divorce several months later.
I think it is best not to get suspicious. We should avoid suspicion.

Originally Posted by Starrynight
Judge them on their kindness, not on being gay. Being gay is just a part of who they are, as being Muslim is just a part of who you are. How would you like it if someone wouldn't be friends with you just because you were Muslim.
Good friends are hard to come by nowadays. If you find someone who accepts you for who you are, then you should accept them for who they are. Leave the judging up to God.
It's culture. Some men assume that a gay man will instantly feel attracted to them, which tells you a lot about these straight men.
Reply

AabiruSabeel
07-02-2011, 03:23 PM
:sl:


Originally Posted by Beardo
I mean, would you be buddies with them or just keep it at a classmate relationship?


عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ الْمَرْءُ عَلَى دِينِ خَلِيلِهِ فَلْيَنْظُرْ أَحَدُكُمْ مَنْ يُخَالِلْ ـ راه أحمد
Reply

ardianto
07-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Guestfellow
:sl:

I think it is best not to get suspicious. We should avoid suspicion.
I agree, we should avoid suspicion. But some of my friends told me, he's a gay. Even my wife who knew him before she knew me also told me the same thing about him. But if he's really a gay, no problem, he never did something wrong to me.

By the way, he's not a feminine guy. And although he's not handsome, he's macho and rich. Daily he prefer to ride one of his few Harley Davidson.
Reply

Who Am I?
07-02-2011, 06:20 PM
People used to think I was gay because I never dated many women and never really talked about women that much. I think even my own parents wondered sometimes.

I am totally straight. Just never was successful at relationships.
Reply

DippedinJannah
07-02-2011, 08:22 PM
There are many sins I do not approve of and homosexuality is just another one of them. I have friends who gamble or drink. I wish they didn't but they do. I would put gay friends (if I had any, I don't) in the same category.

Honestly, of the gay people I know, most lead very secular, atheistic lives. I suspect we are not friends mainly because we don't have much in common.
Reply

May Ayob
07-02-2011, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by Endymion
Assalam Alekum. I read the story of Banu Israeel who use to hunt on saturday while it was forbidden to catch fishes on saturday. “And ask them (O Muhammad) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah) And when a community among them said: ‘Why do you preach to a people whom Allaah is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment?’ (The preachers) said: ‘In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allaah), and perhaps they may fear Allaah.’ So when they forgot the reminders that had been given to them, We rescued those who forbade evil, but with a severe torment We seized those who did wrong because they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah). So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected’” [al-A’raaf 7:163-166] I read in the interpretation that those people divided into 3 groups. 1)Who transgress and catch fishes on Saturday. 2)Who did not catch fishes but they freely meet and mingle with people who transgress. 3)Those who neither catch fishes nor meet with the disobedient people, they cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT. When Allah SWT sent his torments,He SWT turned both the groups 1 and 2 into Monkeys and pigs and rescued the third party.He punish the group 2 as well because they did not cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT and did not scare them from the hell fire. The moral of this story,according to my understanding is,when people disobey Allah SWT and commit severe crimes and let people know about their sins,and do not shy on them,one should cut off their relations with them.Frist,try to convince them that they are doing wrong and try to stop them and when they dont listen to you and keep on doing wrong deeds,one should stop meeting with such people. We are the people who are here to stop people from wrong deeds and invite them towards good.We should not not take such serious crimes as a normal thing.Allah SWT destroyed the whole nation of Lut AS for perversion.If people are going back to the time of Jahilliyah,we should try to stop them and if we are unable to do that,we should simply stop meeting them and stop taking such a serious crime as a normal thing.


Salaam Sister Endymion :)
I think what you said is correct, But sometimes in certain cases there would be differences and things like that.
I had a friend shes very nice and good-natured , she never hurt anyone with her mouth and tongue she wasn;t a bad person and she didn't like this topic never brought it up or spoke about it at all.
One day i found her crying and she is really near to my heart , I asked her about her condition .. she didn't ant to tell me at first but the she told me she has feelings for people from the same gender... My friend told me she is doing all she can to fight it off and al hamdulilah she never put it into action at all she wasn't bad she used to Love the Prophet and used to cry when ever they speak about him , but then she was alittle more patient and alhamdulilah she resisted every trial that came in her face .. My friend now is married to a wonderfull Husband that she loves and he loves her too, she is now a hundred percent straight and happily married.
I think sometimes there are some people who are tested with such a thing but if they resisted and kept patient Allah will reward them

With Love :) your sister May
Salaam
Reply

Riana17
07-03-2011, 11:32 AM
Salam
One time my mother in Law was with us & we saw a gay walking so sexy and she said! HE SHOULD DIE!!! Let man do anything, try many women and all, but he CANT be gay!
I thought at the beginning she's mean,,,,, loool
well i love her, she is too nice, we get along, she prays, she do alot of charity (May Allah be pleased with her)

Then l remember, yes Allah was so mad at them for He killed all of them (the story of Prophet Lut)
But personally I wouldnt leave the judgment in my hand or any judgment in fact, but having feelings for same sex is really something very strange for me, I dont know how it's happening. I am sure its very hard thing to deal with

Well I am almost in the state of not believing that there is gay, bcoz I've seen many gays with children
or lesbian ending up pregnant, I guess big part of it is CHOICE
I dont know, i hope i didnt hurt anyone, but it seems "Riba" to me now, killing someone is lighter and has chance to be forgiven but Allah closes the door to people who do Riba.

so i still do not like to befriend with gays, i mean I treat them like any other people but i hope i will not have a gay friend, like Mr Ardianto said, one time my husband's co gym showed him some interest as well and he wants to vomit :)
Reply

Mr.President
07-03-2011, 11:50 AM
Originally Posted by Endymion
Assalam Alekum.

I read the story of Banu Israeel who use to hunt on saturday while it was forbidden to catch fishes on saturday.

“And ask them (O Muhammad) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah)

And when a community among them said: ‘Why do you preach to a people whom Allaah is about to destroy or to punish with a severe torment?’ (The preachers) said: ‘In order to be free from guilt before your Lord (Allaah), and perhaps they may fear Allaah.’

So when they forgot the reminders that had been given to them, We rescued those who forbade evil, but with a severe torment We seized those who did wrong because they used to rebel against Allaah’s Command (disobey Allaah).

So when they exceeded the limits of what they were prohibited, We said to them: ‘Be you monkeys, despised and rejected’”

[al-A’raaf 7:163-166]

I read in the interpretation that those people divided into 3 groups.
1)Who transgress and catch fishes on Saturday.
2)Who did not catch fishes but they freely meet and mingle with people who transgress.
3)Those who neither catch fishes nor meet with the disobedient people, they cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT.

When Allah SWT sent his torments,He SWT turned both the groups 1 and 2 into Monkeys and pigs and rescued the third party.He punish the group 2 as well because they did not cut off their relations with the disobedients of Allah SWT and did not scare them from the hell fire.
The moral of this story,according to my understanding is,when people disobey Allah SWT and commit severe crimes and let people know about their sins,and do not shy on them,one should cut off their relations with them.Frist,try to convince them that they are doing wrong and try to stop them and when they dont listen to you and keep on doing wrong deeds,one should stop meeting with such people.
We are the people who are here to stop people from wrong deeds and invite them towards good.We should not not take such serious crimes as a normal thing.Allah SWT destroyed the whole nation of Lut AS for perversion.If people are going back to the time of Jahilliyah,we should try to stop them and if we are unable to do that,we should simply stop meeting them and stop taking such a serious crime as a normal thing.
I also agree with you !!! but





Originally Posted by AabiruSabeel
:sl:






عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ الْمَرْءُ عَلَى دِينِ خَلِيلِهِ فَلْيَنْظُرْ أَحَدُكُمْ مَنْ يُخَالِلْ ـ راه أحمد
Brother Assalamu alikum pls post the translation
Reply

Ansariyah
07-03-2011, 12:21 PM
I know a couple of gay people, I don't really care about their sexual orientation. They know I'm a Muslim and ask me a lot of questions which gives me a chance to give dawah.
Reply

Endymion
07-03-2011, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by May Ayob
Salaam Sister Endymion :)
I think what you said is correct, But sometimes in certain cases there would be differences and things like that.
I had a friend shes very nice and good-natured , she never hurt anyone with her mouth and tongue she wasn;t a bad person and she didn't like this topic never brought it up or spoke about it at all.
One day i found her crying and she is really near to my heart , I asked her about her condition .. she didn't ant to tell me at first but the she told me she has feelings for people from the same gender... My friend told me she is doing all she can to fight it off and al hamdulilah she never put it into action at all she wasn't bad she used to Love the Prophet and used to cry when ever they speak about him , but then she was alittle more patient and alhamdulilah she resisted every trial that came in her face .. My friend now is married to a wonderfull Husband that she loves and he loves her too, she is now a hundred percent straight and happily married.
I think sometimes there are some people who are tested with such a thing but if they resisted and kept patient Allah will reward them

With Love :) your sister May
Salaam
Walekum Assalam My Dearest sister May :statisfie

As i said we should invite them towards hidayah.If a person wants to leave a sin,we should help them and encourage them through positive behavior and should not hate them as we all are sinners and we have no right to look down upon anyone for their sin but sticking with something Haram and not feeling guilty on them is a very dangerous sign and we should stay away from such people :)

I think i made my point clear now :statisfie

Salam :D
Reply

Muhaba
07-04-2011, 07:59 AM
the hadith meaning is something like: a person is on the deen of his friend. so watch who you befriend. ) But I don't know its exact meaning.

reminds me of the famous quote: a man is known by the company he keeps.

so a person who wants to befriend gay people will be regarded gay too.

what have the muslims come to? today they want to befriend gay friends, tomorrow they will be saying it's all right to be gave, to h\each his own, live and let live. or are they already doing that?

there's a hadith that says something like, the jews had been destroyed because they would see someone commiting a sin one day and then the next day they would treat them as if nothing had happened. another hadith says we should stop a sin with our hand, if that isn't possible, then with our tongue, and if htat isn't possible, then to hate it in the heart.
and hating something in the heart means eventually you will part with the sinner. you can't continue being friends with him if he keeps sinning.
those who don't do this will end up being punished by Allah just like in the story of the people of Sabt.

if you befriend gays, you will have to tell them that homosexuality is wrong, that its a filth and against God, that God will punish homos, etc. and with this you will risk being accused of being prejudiced or something.
Reply

Mr.President
07-04-2011, 09:46 AM
My opinion your opinion I am like this you are like this ! what happened to IB when I was joining IB its not like this people were referring to scholars and there were lot of knowledged members on this board where are they ??? Its a very disturbing and uneducated talk his opinion ur opinion !!! pls stop that and stick to quran and sunnah

Be as person who says If allah and his messenger forbids one thing I listen and I act upon it


http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26118/gay%20friend

I'm a muslim who has quite alot of Christian friends, both male and female. There is 1 friend in particular who I'm really good friends with and recently I discovered that they were gay. I don't want to treat them differently because of this but I would like to know if it is haraam to have a gay friend?.


Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslim must strive to find good friends who will help him to do good, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The likeness of a righteous companion and an evil companion is that of one who carries musk and one who works a bellows. With the one who carries musk, either he will give you some or you will buy from him or you will notice a pleasant fragrance from him. With the one who work a bellows, either he will burn your clothes or you will notice a foul odour from him.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5534; Muslim, 2628, from Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari, may Allaah be pleased with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to make (close) friends with Christians or other kaafirs. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

“O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:118]

al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
This is a warning from Allaah to His slaves not to make (close) friends with the kuffaar and take them as close confidantes or best friends.

Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 198

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You should not make friends with anyone but a believer and no one should eat your food but one who is pious.”

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4832; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 4045

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A man will follow the religion of his close friend, so let each of you look to who he takes a close friend.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2378; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1937

So stop keeping company with Christians and replace them with Muslim friends, and try to make friends with righteous people.

You should note that it is not permissible for a man to keep company with females or with homosexuals, whether they are Muslims or Christians, because of the fitnah (temptation) involved in that, and because it also involves things that are forbidden in sharee’ah, such as being alone with them, shaking hands with them and things that are more serious than that. I ask Allaah to protect us all from fitnah.

Reply

ardianto
07-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Mr.President
My opinion your opinion I am like this you are like this ! what happened to IB when I was joining IB its not like this people were referring to scholars and there were lot of knowledged members on this board where are they ??? Its a very disturbing and uneducated talk his opinion ur opinion !!! pls stop that and stick to quran and sunnah

Be as person who says If allah and his messenger forbids one thing I listen and I act upon it


http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/26118/gay%20friend

I'm a muslim who has quite alot of Christian friends, both male and female. There is 1 friend in particular who I'm really good friends with and recently I discovered that they were gay. I don't want to treat them differently because of this but I would like to know if it is haraam to have a gay friend?.


Praise be to Allaah.

The Muslim must strive to find good friends who will help him to do good, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The likeness of a righteous companion and an evil companion is that of one who carries musk and one who works a bellows. With the one who carries musk, either he will give you some or you will buy from him or you will notice a pleasant fragrance from him. With the one who work a bellows, either he will burn your clothes or you will notice a foul odour from him.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5534; Muslim, 2628, from Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari, may Allaah be pleased with him).

It is not permissible for a Muslim to make (close) friends with Christians or other kaafirs. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Awliyaa’ (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Awliyaa’ of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’), then surely, he is one of them. Verily, Allaah guides not those people who are the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)”

[al-Maa’idah 5:51]

“O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitaanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, Jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayaat (proofs, evidences, verses) if you understand”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:118]

al-Sa’di (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
This is a warning from Allaah to His slaves not to make (close) friends with the kuffaar and take them as close confidantes or best friends.

Tafseer al-Sa’di, p. 198

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “You should not make friends with anyone but a believer and no one should eat your food but one who is pious.”

Narrated by Abu Dawood, 4832; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 4045

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A man will follow the religion of his close friend, so let each of you look to who he takes a close friend.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2378; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 1937

So stop keeping company with Christians and replace them with Muslim friends, and try to make friends with righteous people.

You should note that it is not permissible for a man to keep company with females or with homosexuals, whether they are Muslims or Christians, because of the fitnah (temptation) involved in that, and because it also involves things that are forbidden in sharee’ah, such as being alone with them, shaking hands with them and things that are more serious than that. I ask Allaah to protect us all from fitnah.
I know this is out of topic. But let me confess, there was a time when I doubt to Islam and start thinking if Islam is not true religion. It's because I found in internet, there are many fatawa that prohibit friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims, even fatawa that obligate Muslims to hate non-Muslims. It's different than Islam that I know as religion that "Rahmatin Lil Alamin", Rahmat for the universe.

But, I realized if I should back to seek knowledge from Indonesian Ulama. They showed me the "Asbabun Nuzul", the background of revelation of that ayaah. And also they showed me what are limits in friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Alhamdulillah, now I do not doubt again. I am sure, Islam is beautiful religion.
Reply

Riana17
07-04-2011, 10:35 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I know this is out of topic. But let me confess, there was a time when I doubt to Islam and start thinking if Islam is not true religion. It's because I found in internet, there are many fatawa that prohibit friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims, even fatawa that obligate Muslims to hate non-Muslims. It's different than Islam that I know as religion that "Rahmatin Lil Alamin", Rahmat for the universe.

But, I realized if I should back to seek knowledge from Indonesian Ulama. They showed me the "Asbabun Nuzul", the background of revelation of that ayaah. And also they showed me what are limits in friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Alhamdulillah, now I do not doubt again. I am sure, Islam is beautiful religion.

ameeen

Infact I am ready to offer my head in front of public if anyone finds mistakes in QURAN.
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ardianto
07-04-2011, 10:43 AM
@ bro Mr.President. I am really sorry if my post is too rude. Please forgive me.


Now, back to topic. Should we be friend with gay ?.

Like I have written, I had two ex-transsexual friends who have done taubah, they tried to back to their Qodrat as men, although it's very hard. And they really need support from people around them. But unfortunately, instead support them, people usually mock them.

I still remember, one afternoon in 1998 I stood with "U" beside a street. A woman and her little sons passed on motorcycle. Suddenly her son looked at "U" and said "Look, a shemale !". I look at "U" face, he was silent and didn't say anything, but I knew he was very sad.


Edit : I forgot to inform. "U" dressed as man and he didn't look like a (ex-)transsexual, but that woman knew who was he. So, I guess, her son knew about "U" from her.
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Mr.President
07-04-2011, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
@bro Mr.President. I am really sorry if my post is too rude. Please forgive me.
No bro u aint rude !!

Originally Posted by ardianto
Now, back to topic. Should we be friend with gay ?.

Like I have written, I had two ex-transsexual friends who have done taubah, they tried to back to their Qodrat as men, although it's very hard. And they really need support from people around them. But unfortunately, instead support them, people usually mock them.

I still remember, one afternoon in 1998 I stood with "U" beside a street. A woman and her little sons passed on motorcycle. Suddenly her son looked at "U" and said "Look, a shemale !". I look at "U" face, he was silent and didn't say anything, but I knew he was very sad.


Edit : I forgot to inform. "U" dressed as man and he didn't look like a (ex-)transsexual, but that woman knew who was he. So, I guess, her son knew about "U" from her.
mocking and being a close friend to them is two different things u r saying x-transsexual and they made thoubaa so they know its a sin and they've made touba If I were you I will support them to be religious again ask dua to allah..etc !!!

but the fatwa I gave you is not for this If you are a closes friend of an alcholik then some times you may have to go out with him since he is too close to you he will drink in front of you thats not a big issue for him even there are muslim brothers once they drink they will promote drinking "have a small shot"
We cannot say that I am very strong and I wont drink I will not go if a women asked me so and so .... Its better to prevent these kind of situations rather than getting caught in a sin !!!

now when it comes to GAYs
as the fatwa says its better be away from them if they are muslims tell them its a sin and educate them if they are non-muslims then pass the message of islam but
hanging out with a person who thinks GAYs are legitimate and its a natural thing etc etc is not gonna give you any benefit !!

Exceptionable people are people who made toubaa try to become a muslim thats another story !!! don't mix & miss understand !
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Starrynight
07-04-2011, 04:21 PM
We have no right to judge people as long as their actions are not directly effecting us! And not to crush you all, but most gay people are not going to come onto you, especially if they know you are straight.
If you want to befriend gay people than that is great. If not, that is your choice. Leave the judging up to God.
If I'm friends with a gay person and for some reason that makes people assume I'm gay, that is there problem. I cannot be held responsible for the assumptions that people choose to make. I wouldn't want to be friends with those types of judgmental people anyway.
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Starrynight
07-04-2011, 04:22 PM
And there is no way that the act of homosexual sex is directly effecting you because you are not there when it occurs.
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May Ayob
07-04-2011, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Starrynight
And there is no way that the act of homosexual sex is directly effecting you because you are not there when it occurs.

Salaam
Yes, True no body here is being judge mental, This is a humanitarian issue but if I want good for my brothers and sisters in humanity and I acknowledge that Homosexuality is a problem , It would be best in that situation then to help them get out of it and not support them and tell them that there is nothing wrong with them.
For example, Seeing someone being murdered may not affect me as I am not getting hurt, Right?*Ofcourse it would be something terrible to witness and maybe the anology I am trying to give wont succeed as it is incomparable)
But it still isn't right to go off saying "Oh well Who cares!The poor brother found his destiny! Glad it wasn't me!"
I know you are not advocating these types of statements but still ,If i truly love someone and I truly don't want to be judgemental towards them then it is also a good thing to protect them in one way or another from falling into something I know and Acknowledge it as a sin , I would not accept it for myself but for other people it would be okay? How does that make sense.
You know I recently learned that in Islam you have to help your fellow brother wether he/she is the opressed or he/she is the opressor- And how do I help the opresser? By withholding Badness from him/her.
Listen I personally don;t judge people according to the former , but i would never want my self to be in a situation as such so I think it would be also fair if I would not accept for any of my brothers and sisters in humanity.
There is a difference between acknowledging that something isn't right and helping me out of it, And knowing something isn't right but to say who cares it's not like I will be affected anyway -would not be a good option either, Its not about us it's about them.
If we want good for them we should want good for their destiny as well.

I didn't mean to offend you

SAlaam
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Ramadhan
07-04-2011, 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Starrynight
And there is no way that the act of homosexual sex is directly effecting you because you are not there when it occurs.
the homosexual act may not directly affect you, but their views on life etc will certainly have impacts on you.

I give you an example of myself:
I could still trace the moments where I was starting drifting away from Islam: it was when I was drifting away from my good muslims friends and closer to my atheists/agnostics and liberal friends. Without me realizing at that time, little by little and in very subtle ways, my mindset changed to the point I became an agnostic.
We are formed by our environment whether we like it or not, and there's strong reasons why in many many sunnah Rasulullah told us and gave examples how we should keep our shalah in masjid, make friends with pious people, etc and even in the hadith that has been mentioned earlier here Rasulullah SAW said that our religion is the religion of our friends.

I used to think the same way as you do (when I was still brainwashed by my secular thoughts) and think we should be able to make friends with anyone regardless of who they are, but my life experiences showed me again and again that we do need to choose who we associate with, so we can be sure that we are on the straight path (no pun intended).

But yes, we shouldn't be judgemental or purposefully alienate our family members or friends who turn out to be gay, we need to make du'a for them so they can change their ways. I have a cousin who was gay, and fortunately for him, his family is pretty religious and his mother unfailingly always makes dua for him, and alhamdulillah he changed and became a very good muslims and last year he got married. On the other hand, we shouldn't condone their lifestyle or their choice even at the risk of being labelled as homophobic or judgemental (which now seems like the usual case in the west) and we have obligation to remind them about Allah, the Qur'an, qiyamah and eternal after life. Remember during judgement day we will be asked about our action or lack thereof.
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Ramadhan
07-04-2011, 05:34 PM
Think about this: if you are a good friend with somebody, you don't want that person to have bad fate in the afterlife.
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Starrynight
07-04-2011, 06:18 PM
I am not brainwashed. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but that implication offends me.

Anyway, I am getting too angry in this discussion so it would be best if I bow out now. I gave my opinion and there is no point in trying to make anyone see things my way. Those who disagree are not going to see things my way, and I will NEVER see things your way. So it's best for the sake of harmony if I don't continue this discussion.

Apologize if I offended anyone or was too harsh.
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SFatima
07-04-2011, 06:41 PM
I agree very much with may ayob and ramadhan's posts.

We hardly realize the influence our environments have on us, if the people around you are not taking influence from you, then you certainly are taking some sort of influence from them sub-consciously. It is one of those things you go through for a long time and then later you realize that you've let go of so much of your good because of your friends/family/loved ones, so that they would not feel awkward in your company, and they actually don't let go of any of their bad habits in your company, so what is your net friendship based on? Nothing going, just chatting up, but something negative seeping into you somehow.

Anyhow, I'm not saying one should completely shun all forms of contact with a gay person, but yes one should really limit the contact to pleasantries, or helping them out in need etc, but no sharing of deep talks and etc, unless ofcorse it is about islam. It cant happen that a gay person does not talk about their gay friend to you and gush in excitement over it, and thats how things happen with the mind, slowly and gradually you start accepting these things as ok and they stop giving you the shock value they naturally would, otherwise.

Also, they might also take your friendship as some sort of a 'support' for their homosexuality, which being a muslim you would not even want to be found dead with, if anyone knows how much Allah swt Abhorrs people who insist on homosexuality, they were given the worst punishment of all times, their whole town was lifted up till the sky and smashed down with brute force upside down into the ground, the condemnation is too strong in Quran.(which obviously came after many many years of messages of abstenance from Allah swt, then many many warnings, then final warnings of dire consequences, and then when they started mocking the Prophet and asked him that if he was so dear to the creator why doesn't his creator bring wrath upon us? the punishment came)

As someone wise said, that the 'First step towards a shameless act, is just crossing your own hesitation, after that, the rest is like a smooth glide."

We all feel great difficulty in doing something if we're doing it for the first time, but as soon as we cross the first mountainous lump of hesitation( probably nature's way of trying to stop us by making us anxious), we go easy into that thing, no matter how bad it is, since satan takes us from there and pushes us all the way down..

But with good things, one has to make effort all the time, why? because satan tries to stop you with every good step you take, all the time. But even he fails at some point when he knows that you wont budge from your efforts towards goodness, and he cant take hold of you since he figures that if he stops you harder, you will go the good way more further. ( smart fellow aint he : p)

I have heard quite a few good scholars say that you cant sit in bad company, in an alcoholic company, gay or criminal or etc, UNLESS you are there for dawah ( invitation to islam) and very few of us are so strong in eeman and deep in knowledge that we would be able to do this, but InshAllah lets hope for the best.

And only Allah knows best.
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SFatima
07-04-2011, 06:50 PM
p.s starrynight* :omg:oops i hope you do not see my post now cuz i started making it before i saw yours there, so please please do not be angry, just calm down, and may ALlah be with you, do not worry, for who'ever is the truth seeker, always comes around it, dont flare up, you may understand in good time what we were trying to say, inshAllah, and if any of us are wrong may we be guided IA, peace be to you.

:peace::muslimah:
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Mr.President
07-04-2011, 06:54 PM
^ Masha allah A good one filled with good advice


sorry if we've offended u

we r really close to death + to the judgement day so its better to be on the safe side !! insha allah
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SFatima
07-04-2011, 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
I know this is out of topic. But let me confess, there was a time when I doubt to Islam and start thinking if Islam is not true religion. It's because I found in internet, there are many fatawa that prohibit friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims, even fatawa that obligate Muslims to hate non-Muslims. It's different than Islam that I know as religion that "Rahmatin Lil Alamin", Rahmat for the universe.

But, I realized if I should back to seek knowledge from Indonesian Ulama. They showed me the "Asbabun Nuzul", the background of revelation of that ayaah. And also they showed me what are limits in friendship between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Alhamdulillah, now I do not doubt again. I am sure, Islam is beautiful religion.
That is true one should always confirm with scholars, and supporting evidences, and if some people do not have access to the Quran and the vast database of hadiths all the time, they can be excused for not being able to quote entire hadiths and their numbers but yes they should. And those who have this knowledge at hand must come forward to share their knowledge soon. : )

The limit of friendships between muslims and non-muslims is about close relationships, like has been quoted with hadiths, it is really important to know the context of hadiths as well, and that hadith pointed out that muslims must not share their secrets with their non-muslim friends because of the conflict of our common interests, since a non believer can never attempt to keep you on your eeman ( faith) the way a muslim friend way will always try to, if he is a practising muslim. Hence the word close friendships was used. A non muslim friend may also give you advice that will be un-islamic but appealing to you because its exactly what your desires want you to do.

Regular friendliness is not only allowed but it is recommended just the same.
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Ramadhan
07-05-2011, 03:55 AM
Originally Posted by Starrynight
I am not brainwashed. I'm sure you didn't mean to, but that implication offends me.
I apologize if I offended you, but if you read again what I wrote, I was actually only describing my old self.

Originally Posted by Starrynight
Those who disagree are not going to see things my way, and I will NEVER see things your way.
I think no one is trying to make you see things the way some of us see things. Although I do pray that all of us will ALWAYS see things the way prophet Muhammad (SAW) saw things.

The best examples are given by prophet Muhammad SAW and we should always try to emulate him (SAW) in our daily life.

Just have a look at how he (SAW) made as his best friends and close acquaintances, all exemplary people, and prophet (SAW) did not make friends and "awliya" with just anyone. I have not yet read any hadith that states prophet (SAW) had friends of people who openly did sins and were proud of it. But he was always kind to everyone, regardless of who they were, and kept trying to invite everyone to Islam in the most kind and just ways. And he did not reject his uncle, Abu Tholib who was a mushreeqeen, and was still trying to give da'wah to Abu tholib even when abu tholib was dying on his deathbed. And even his most ardent polytheistic enemies such as Umar r.a. became one of his closest best friends because Umar r.a. reverted and made tawbah and became one of the best muslims ever walked on earth.

This should give us a hint how we deal with "gay friend".
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