Wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

As salaam alekum all,

Narrated Usama:

The Prophet (PBUH) said, "I stood at the gate of Paradise and saw that the majority of the people who entered it were the poor, while the wealthy were stopped at the gate (for the accounts). But the companions of the Fire were ordered to be taken to the Fire. Then I stood at the gate of the Fire and saw that the majority of those who entered it were women."

Source: Sahi Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 124.


I have a concern regarding this hadith... don't you think that if non-muslims were to view this it would make a bold statement as to the status of women in islam...

Perhaps to non-believes or people who do not understand islam too well might view this statement is going against women, that islam favors men among women...


Also, I too have a concern about this hadith... it makes me sad to wonder why mostly women would or are the ones entering the fire... They go through so much, example, child birth, stress with raising children etc etc. and to come to know that after much hardship in this life they endure hardship in the next as well?

I know not all women are perfect and many fall in the the western culture ie. begin drinking, pre-marital sex, wearing provocative clothing, but all these things can be assimilated to men as well?

why then are women more likely to be the inmates of fire than men?

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

At some point they'll outnumber men by 50:1, I'll assume that time to be after Armageddon the mal7ama..

and Allah swt knows best...

it is easy for a woman not to be of the people of hell.. it is a choice in the matter..
yesterday I was watching a 'J'adore' commercial and the 'starlet' in it was exactly what the hadith millenniums ago spoke of

the second of the categories of the inhabitants of Hell, saying: “women, clothed yet naked, drawn to licentiousness and enticing others to it, their heads like the swaying humps of camels…” [Sahîh Muslim (2127)]

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

btw the end of the hadith as an addendum also says that women are the most people in paradise.. did you come across that part as well?

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

So what if we know that the majority of those in Hellfire are women? It had to be either men or women, and it just so happens that it's women... That doesn't mean anything though, every woman still has the power to attain Jannah.

This question is actually similar to the question about how we could possibly have free will if Allah knows what will happen and what we will do in our lives before we do it. Does having an all knowing deity mean we are predestined to our fates and therefore have no free will? I'd advise you to read up on that subject since it might help you understand why knowing that Women will be the majority doesn't effect humanity's ability to reach paradise. (Hope that made sense)

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...


أولا :حديث " النساء أكثر أهل النار " هو حديث صحيح

‏
كما أن النساء هن أكثر أهل الجنة أيضا كما في الحديث "اختصم الرجال والنساء أيهم في الجنة أكثر فسألوا ‏ ‏أبا هريرة فقال : قال ‏ ‏أبو القاسم ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏إن أول ‏ ‏زمرة ‏ ‏تدخل الجنة على صورة القمر ليلة البدر والتي تليها على ‏أضوإء كوكب ‏دري ‏في السماء لكل امرئ منهم زوجتان اثنتان يرى مخ سوقهما من وراء اللحم وما في الجنة أعزب


قال شيخ ابن تيمية كما في مجموع الفتاوى (6/432) (( لِأَنَّ النِّسَاءَ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ إذْ قَدْ صَحَّ أَنَّهُنَّ أَكْثَرُ أَهْلِ النَّارِ وَقَدْ صَحَّ لِكُلِّ رَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ زَوْجَتَانِ مِنْ الْإِنْسِيَّاتِ سِوَى الْحُورِ الْعِينِ وَذَلِكَ لِأَنَّ مَنْ فِي الْجَنَّةِ مِنْ النِّسَاءِ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ وَكَذَلِكَ فِي النَّارِ فَيَكُونُ الْخَلْقُ مِنْهُمْ أَكْثَرَ ))

وذكر ابن حجر رحمه الله أن المقصود بقوله : ( ولكل واحد منهم زوجتان ) ‏أي من نساء الدنيا .يعني النساء في الجنة " الإنسيات " ضعف عدد الرجال و الحديث المذكور في صحيح مسلم .

و قد قال النبي أيضا : ( إن أقل ساكني الجنة النساء ) –أخرجه البخاري ومسلم
فما معني هذا و كيف نجمع الأحاديث """ الصحيحة """ كلها معا دون التشكيك في السنة و البخاري " و من غيرمنودي نفسنا في داهية " ؟؟؟

ما الذي قاله العلماء " و ضع مليون خط تحت كلمة العلماء " في تفسيرهم للحديث ؟؟

كان للعلماء تفسير مختلف للحديث غير معناه الظاهر فقالوا إن " أقل ساكني الجنة النساء " يعني في أول الأمر قبل خروج عصاتهن من النار ، لأن رسولنا الكريم قال :"يا معشر النساء تصدقن فإني أريتكن أكثر أهل النار"
المخاطب به ابتداءً نساء المؤمنين اللواتي مآلهن إلى الجنة لذا علل كثرتهن في النار بأمور دون الكفر الأكبر ولا توجب الخلود في النار وهي : الإكثار من اللعن ، وكفران العشير ،و اذهاب لب الرجل الحازم

ولهذا كان الترغيب بالصدقة لتكفير الخطايا عنهن

و كان هذا كلام بن حجر وبهذا تتسق الأدلة

و الله دينا جميل و مفيهوش عيوب و لا ظالم حد ....

http://www.masrawy.com/ketabat/ArticlesDetails.aspx?AID=138047

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

We should not judge the Hadith on the perceptions of kuffar but should look into the possible reasons instead.

Secondly, it is not sexist to state a fact that one has seen and who's job is to relay the message of what he has seen and heard.

It is a fact that we are suffering from inferiority complex instead of asserting ourselves and looking into the sickness of disbelief and degradation of women, we find ourselves first defending ourselves from quraish who claimed that Islam gives too many right to women, and now against the kuffar leadership who debase their own mothers, sisters, daughters and wives, and claim that Islam suppresses women.

Let us promote the truth rather than just defend against propaganda.
Peace

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

I just posted ahadiths in Arabic to the fact that women are also the most in paradise .. can't find its English equivalent so if someone would be kind to find it.. JZK

I have taken some pills to zzzzzz and not very lucid..

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

ßlµêßêll said:

أولا :حديث " النساء أكثر أهل النار " هو حديث صحيح

‏
كما أن النساء هن أكثر أهل الجنة أيضا كما في الحديث "اختصم الرجال والنساء أيهم في الجنة أكثر فسألوا ‏ ‏أبا هريرة فقال : قال ‏ ‏أبو القاسم ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏إن أول ‏ ‏زمرة ‏ ‏تدخل الجنة على صورة القمر ليلة البدر والتي تليها على ‏أضوإء كوكب ‏دري ‏في السماء لكل امرئ منهم زوجتان اثنتان يرى مخ سوقهما من وراء اللحم وما في الجنة أعزب


قال شيخ ابن تيمية كما في مجموع الفتاوى (6/432) (( لِأَنَّ النِّسَاءَ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ إذْ قَدْ صَحَّ أَنَّهُنَّ أَكْثَرُ أَهْلِ النَّارِ وَقَدْ صَحَّ لِكُلِّ رَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ زَوْجَتَانِ مِنْ الْإِنْسِيَّاتِ سِوَى الْحُورِ الْعِينِ وَذَلِكَ لِأَنَّ مَنْ فِي الْجَنَّةِ مِنْ النِّسَاءِ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ وَكَذَلِكَ فِي النَّارِ فَيَكُونُ الْخَلْقُ مِنْهُمْ أَكْثَرَ ))

وذكر ابن حجر رحمه الله أن المقصود بقوله : ( ولكل واحد منهم زوجتان ) ‏أي من نساء الدنيا .يعني النساء في الجنة " الإنسيات " ضعف عدد الرجال و الحديث المذكور في صحيح مسلم .

و قد قال النبي أيضا : ( إن أقل ساكني الجنة النساء ) –أخرجه البخاري ومسلم
فما معني هذا و كيف نجمع الأحاديث """ الصحيحة """ كلها معا دون التشكيك في السنة و البخاري " و من غيرمنودي نفسنا في داهية " ؟؟؟

ما الذي قاله العلماء " و ضع مليون خط تحت كلمة العلماء " في تفسيرهم للحديث ؟؟

كان للعلماء تفسير مختلف للحديث غير معناه الظاهر فقالوا إن " أقل ساكني الجنة النساء " يعني في أول الأمر قبل خروج عصاتهن من النار ، لأن رسولنا الكريم قال :"يا معشر النساء تصدقن فإني أريتكن أكثر أهل النار"
المخاطب به ابتداءً نساء المؤمنين اللواتي مآلهن إلى الجنة لذا علل كثرتهن في النار بأمور دون الكفر الأكبر ولا توجب الخلود في النار وهي : الإكثار من اللعن ، وكفران العشير ،و اذهاب لب الرجل الحازم

ولهذا كان الترغيب بالصدقة لتكفير الخطايا عنهن

و كان هذا كلام بن حجر وبهذا تتسق الأدلة

و الله دينا جميل و مفيهوش عيوب و لا ظالم حد ....

http://www.masrawy.com/ketabat/ArticlesDetails.aspx?AID=138047

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Salaam Aliakum.

I have heard plenty of men misuse that hadith. But if we are to assume that every man in Paradise has at least two wives, then women should outnumber men in Jannah as well.

I can't understand Arabic, but I hope that the information you have provided is accurate. It is sad that even some Shiekhs mention women outnumbering men in hell in a negative way, and they do not realize the discomfort and worry that comes with their tone.

Why isn't that important part not found in English translation:raging:?

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

ßlµêßêll said:

can't find its English equivalent so if someone would be kind to find it.. JZK

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this is what I translated from google, it is somewhat inaccurate so please fix if you know better:
said: Abu al-Qasim said, peace be upon him The first group

to enter Paradise on the image moon on the night which followed the ​

lights star in the sky each man will have two wives, the marrow of the market for two from behind the meat and in Paradise Single Shaykh Ibn Taymiyah, as Counsel in the total (6 / 432) ((because more women than men as may be true they are more the people of Hell has been true of every man of the people of Paradise will have two wives from Alanciat only virgins and because of the paradise of women more than men, as well as in the fire so the creation of them more)) According to Ibn Hajar Allah's mercy that is meant by saying: (and each one their wives) any of the women of this world. I mean the women in Paradise "Alanciat" twice the number of men and the hadeeth mentioned in Sahih Muslim. and the Prophet also said: (The less women residents of Paradise) - Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim, what does this mean and how we collect this talk "" "" correct "" all together, without questioning the Sunnis and al-Bukhaari, "and of Garmnaudi ourselves in the crossfire?"?? what he said scientists "and place the million lines under the word of scientists" in their interpretation of the interview?? the scientists to a different interpretation of the interview is They said that apparently means "less inhabitants of Paradise women" means in the first command before Asathen out of the fire, because the Holy Prophet said: "O women, I Give charity Eratkn more people of Hell"by the addressee from the believing women who Mahin to heaven so Ktherthen ills in the fire things without major kufr and had to eternity in the fire, which is: a lot of cursing, and ingratitude intimate partner, and Izhab the heart of the man's firm and this was the temptation to give charity to atone for sins about them and this was the words of Ben Stone and this is consistent evidence of God we have a beautiful and Mvyehosh defects and does not unfairly limit .... and I do not discuss matters of religion is to inform and discuss because this is not the first time , thank you


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Abz2000 said:

We should not judge the Hadith on the perceptions of kuffar,
We should look into the possible reasons instead.

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Well, I wasn't "judging" the hadith as you claim, rather I was just trying to look perceive from and objective point of view.. any who, it makes sense that if their are more women than men that the probabilty of a women landing in hell is greater...

Tyrion said:

does having an all knowing deity mean we are predestined to our fates and therefore have no free will?

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you know, I've thought about this a few times and even pondered over it as well but I never really got a concrete answer.. If we are given free will and determine our own destiny does it not contradict the fact that everything is preordained, or that God already knows what will happen as he knows the unseen etc..

if you don't mind refer me to some links or books I would appreciate it if I could get a thorough understanding of this topic

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

syed1 said:

what I translated from google,

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:haha: google seems to reflect my current state of mind..
I find a flaw in your original query which is this

syed1 said:

to view this it would make a bold statement as to the status of women in islam...

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Why would you assume that it is the status of women in Islam and not the status of women in kuffr state?

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

ßlµêßêll said:

Why would you assume that it is the status of women in Islam and not the status of women in kuffr state?

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what do you mean by that??

what I meant was when a non- muslim would read this they might instantly get the feeling that women are frowned upon or are judged more harshly ... hmm Maybe this could just be my own personal first impression...

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

syed1 said:

what do you mean by that??

what I meant was when a non- muslim would read this they might instantly get the feeling that women are frowned upon or are judged more harshly ... hmm Maybe this could just be my own personal first impression...

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I think she was pointing out that the Hadith doesn't specify which women will be in Hellfire, and that you seem to be assuming that it's talking about Muslim women. It could (and most likely is) talking about women who died in a state of kufr, and in that case I don't know why anyone would see a problem with this. It's just a matter of explaining to non Muslims what it's actually saying... If they're sincere, they'll accept it... If they keep pushing, then I don't think you need to waste much more time with them.

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

syed1 said:

what I meant was when a non- muslim would read this they might instantly get the feeling that women are frowned upon or are judged more harshly

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that's what i meant when i said:
We should not judge the Hadith on the perceptions of kuffar,
maybe i should have said "ponder over" / "evaluate"

the main comments i see on youtube vids where women do something good or admirable is:

"that's a big kitchen!" or "ok, now make me a sandwich"

so let's not worry about them

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

I read a similar hadith on this blog before, she give a pretty simple explanation.

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...



Br Syed1, although not directly related to your question above, did you find the input in the below thread of any help at all?

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/134309886-how-authentic-hadith-really.html

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

Insaanah said:

Br Syed1, although not directly related to your question above, did you find the input in the below thread of any help at all?

http://www.islamicboard.com/hadeeth/...th-really.html (how authentic is a hadith really?)

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sorry, these threads get sunk away so sometimes I don't remember where I posted etc. none the less, I did go and ready your replies and comments and it has cleared some doubts about the hadeeth being authentic, or rather, being necessary since the quran doesn't specify exactly how to pray and what not etc....

just a thought.. what if a person, all alone on an island, has only 1 book with him, the quran.. which is the complete way of life. how then would he be able to pray etc if it is not taught in the quran...?

Tyrion said:

I think she was pointing out that the Hadith doesn't specify which women will be in Hellfire, and that you seem to be assuming that it's talking about Muslim women. It could (and most likely is) talking about women who died in a state of kufr, and in that case I don't know why anyone would see a problem with this. It's just a matter of explaining to non Muslims what it's actually saying... If they're sincere, they'll accept it... If they keep pushing, then I don't think you need to waste much more time with them.

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ooh, she was referring to more non-muslim women being the inhabitants of the fire.. that make sense..

Re: wouldn't non-muslims see this as ...

syed1 said:

just a thought.. what if a person, all alone on an island, has only 1 book with him, the quran.. which is the complete way of life.

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Islam in it's totality, through both the Qur'an and the sunnah, is the complete way of life. You can't take one in isolation of the other and say it's the complete way of life.

syed1 said:

how then would he be able to pray etc if it is not taught in the quran...?

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If he was all alone on the desert island since a baby, he'd most likely have died as there'd have been no one to feed him; if as an older child or adult, he'd most likely know how to pray by then. One could ask the same question and say, what if someone was stuck on a desert island without a Qur'an? You'd be judged according to the best of the information you had available to you, but wilful rejection of information is a different story altogether.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

syed1 said:

I have a concern regarding this hadith... don't you think that if non-muslims were to view this it would make a bold statement as to the status of women in islam...

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I find this thread rather disturbing. As Muslims, we should never question or have an ounce of concern regarding any Hadith. Our Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him has told us the reality and we should accept it for what it is.

Who cares what Non Muslims think? Its their choice whether they want to accept..or reject it