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anonymous
11-28-2011, 08:38 PM
Salaam,

I orginally posted the topic on serving inlaws.

Please tell me the following:

Is it an islamic requirement to wear a veil? Or is hijab enough? my marriage proposal got rejected for seevreal reasons, one being that i dont wear a veil

W.S
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ardianto
11-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Is it an islamic requirement to wear a veil? Or is hijab enough?
:sl:

There are two opinions about face veil.

#1. Women are allowed to show their faces and their palms. Ulama who hold this opinion say, wear hijab is enough, but if women want to wear face veil, it's okay.

#2. Women are not allowed to show their faces to non-mahram, and should wear face veil.

Both opinions are supported by strong daleel, and Muslims do not need to debate about it.
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Flame of Hope
11-29-2011, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Is it an islamic requirement to wear a veil? Or is hijab enough? my marriage proposal got rejected for seevreal reasons, one being that i dont wear a veil
:sl:

If you got rejected because you don't wear a veil, then it's a good thing.

You were spared from marrying a man who laid more emphasis on appearance than character.
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Muhammad
11-30-2011, 12:49 AM
Wa Alaykum Assalaam,

I'm sorry to hear that sister. May Allaah (swt) guide you to what is best for you, Aameen.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by Riham

:sl:

If you got rejected because you don't wear a veil, then it's a good thing.

You were spared from marrying a man who laid more emphasis on appearance than character.
:sl:


That is a very unfair and judgemental comment. Many men do require that the women they marry be veiled simply because they believe they are conforming to the majority opinion regarding the veil which is that it is obligatory (fard). The sameway many women only want to marry men with beards not because of outward appearance but because they believe they are conforming to the majority opinion regarding the beard which is that it is compulsory (wajib).

Just because they may reject a proposal it does not mean they look down upon a women who is not veiled or a man who does not have a beard but it is just that they believe they are conforming to the stronger opinion which they are more than entitled to follow and so they should not be judged for doing so.


And Allah knows best in all matters
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ardianto
12-01-2011, 09:31 AM
:sl:

I am sure, those men did not reject this anonymous sister marriage proposal, but she rejected those men marriage proposal whitout she realize about it.

As a woman she is in position that receive proposal, not send proposal.

From what I have read in her another thread, I know, they (or at least one man) propose marriage and they told her if she accept this proposal, she should wear hijab and stay at home. Did those men do something wrong ?. No !. They have told her what would happen to her if she get married with one of them. This is very right.

Anybody knows ?, many men were lying when they proposed marriage, they promised many things but after those women accept them, they break their promise. Different than those men who proposed marriage to this anonymous sister and told her frankly and honestly that they want her wear face veil and stop working. That's what Muslim men must do when they propose a marriage, tell frankly and honestly about what they expect from a wife and what would happen in the marriage.

There are some Muslim men in my place who are looking for wives who would wear face veil after married them. Those men always tell it frankly and honestly when they propose a marriage. And if those women answer, do not want to wear face veil, those men never force those women, but they start looking for other women and propose marriage again.

One of my female friend married a man like this. Her husband told her in his marriage proposal, she should wear face veil if she accept him. She accepted him and wear face veil.

My sister in-law friend got marriage proposal from a man like this too, but she rejected this proposal because she didn't want to wear face veil. Later she married another man who follow opinion #1 (see my previous post)

I have heard and read refferences from ulama in my place. They said, women have rigt to accept or not accept marriage proposal because this is decision for life time. However, if they accept a marriage proposal, then they should obey their husbands.

The anonymous sister who start this thread has a right to accept or not accept a marriage proposal. If a man propose marriage to her and tell her she must wear face veil, she can reject this proposal and wait for another man if she doesn't want to wear face veil. However, if accept this marriage proposal, it's means she is agree with what this man has told, and she must qonsequent, wear face veil.
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Insaanah
12-01-2011, 10:03 AM
:sl: sister,

This does not answer your question, but I feel something needs to be clarified. If he decided not to proceed further because you don't wear a niqaab (face veil), that in no way means that he laid more emphasis on your appearance rather than your character. The very fact that things got to the stage where he asked you that, means that he liked what he saw of your character so far. Had he not laid much emphasis on your character, he would have asked if you wore a veil or would wear one, right at the beginning, before finding out anything else about you. And, had he not liked your character, he would not have bothered asking you to wear it, as things would not have ever reached that stage.

It's possible that in future you may also receive proposals from brothers who would prefer you to wear the face veil, but we cannot make judgements about them to say that they place less importance on character, when all they are trying to do is follow the deen on that aspect, to the best of their ability. In fact they should be commended for doing so, and for being honest and upfront about their requirements, even if wearing a niqaab is something we may not feel able to do, or even if we follow the opinion that it's not obligatory.

And Allah knows best in all matters.

:sl:
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Endymion
12-01-2011, 02:58 PM
Good to hear that,sister.This man was'nt a right choice.At one side,he ask you to serve his in laws which is not part of Islam.On the other side,he wants you to cover your face because it is one of the teachings of Islam.He was the type of man who want to control others and want you to live your life according to his views.There are many who have a pocket size Islam.They only pick those teachings which they like specially those which are for wives,not themselves.A person who dont respect your point of view,cannot be a right choice.Alhamdulillah,you did not accept him.
Im sure Allah SWT save someone really good for you and that is why He SWT saved you from this man.

May He SWT bless you with a man who is good for your Dunyah and Aakhirah and you'll accept him with the depth of your heart.Amen.

About the face veil,please read this.

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/11774
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 03:25 PM
We have no right to be so judgemental and bias and make comments like "Allah saved you from such a man". Do we know him to make such a judgement?

He has every right to reject a proposal due to the sister not wanting to wear a veil just like a sister has every right to reject a proposal from a man who does not have a beard.

Whilst it is his duty to take care of his parents and not the wifes he still made it clear before marriage of what he wants from his partner. Many people do not even do that. So we should stop making such judgemental comments about a person we know nothing about when he has not done anything wrong.
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ardianto
12-01-2011, 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
He has every right to reject a proposal due to the sister not wanting to wear a veil just like a sister has every right to reject a proposal from a man who does not have a beard.
Can a woman propose marriage to a man ?
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anonymous
12-01-2011, 09:33 PM
Wow I have started up a debate..

I think there have been good points said. I think he deserves credit for being honest in why he wants in a partner, however he shouldn't also use the reason that I didn't want to serve inlaws as an excuse ontop on the veil. If he rejected me because of a veil, then it show he wanted something that I couldn't give him. I know there are two strong arguments in Islam whether it not to wear the veil or not.

I think maybe the option of that if I wear a veil he would not be persistent in me serving inlaws would have even a better compromise.

However it didn't go ahead, which goes we both were not right for each other and Allah has better suited partners for us... On the other hand if he is the one Insha'Allah he will be back.
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anonymous
12-01-2011, 09:34 PM
Oh and he didn't want me to work an I want to work.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by anonymous
Oh and he didn't want me to work an I want to work.
:sl:


Sister he has every right to demand those things from a marriage potential and you have every right to look elsewhere for someone better suited to you it is as simple as that. There doesnt need to be any further discussions of what he has demanded from you as a potential partner. You just need to move on and stop wasting time over this.

:wa:
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GuestFellow
12-01-2011, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
:sl:


That is a very unfair and judgemental comment.
:wa:

I would have worded it differently, though I agree that many people do put more emphasis on looks rather than personality.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:wa:

I would have worded it differently, though I agree that many people do put more emphasis on looks rather than personality.
:sl:

A man preferring to marry a women who wears a veil has nothing to do with "looks" as wearing the veil comes from the women viewing the veil as an obligation and her wanting to please Allah. The sameway a women preferring a man with a beard is not for looks but the fact that she views the beard for men as an obligation and them wanting to please Allah.

So it is piety that a man sees in a women wearing a veil and a women sees in a man having a beard, not looks. However seeing such piety will no doubt beautify their appearance to such people.
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GuestFellow
12-01-2011, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
:sl:

A man preferring to marry a women who wears a veil has nothing to do with "looks" as wearing the veil comes from the women viewing the veil as an obligation and her wanting to please Allah. The sameway a women preferring a man with a beard is not for looks but the fact that she views the beard for men as an obligation and them wanting to please Allah.

So it is piety that a man sees in a women wearing a veil and a women sees in a man having a beard, not looks. However seeing such piety will no doubt beautify their appearance to such people.
:wa:

By looks, I meant appearance. Some people put more emphasis on how you appear rather than your personality. Like in a job interview. If I wore jeans and a ripped shirt to a job interview, I would not be successful, even if I had the right personality.

Now I'm speaking from experience, but most Muslim men that I know want their wife to wear a Hijab/Niqaab so other men don't perv on them. Nothing about their wife to please Allah was ever mentioned. Also, most Muslim women want their husbands to shave their beard from my experience.

Of course their are Muslims that want their spouse to adhere to the Islamic dress code in order for them to please Allah.
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Snowflake
12-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Can someone literate in arabic tell me if this verse mentions the veil i.e. does it say to cover the face and leave a way for the eye/eyes to see with?


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Insaanah
12-01-2011, 10:57 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by ardianto
Can a woman propose marriage to a man ?
As far as I know (and I ask others to please correct me if they have info to the contrary), there is nothing in the Qur'an or sunnah to suggest that a marriage proposal can only be initiated by a man. A woman's wali/family can initiate a proposal to a man who they think would make a suitable match for their daughter. They don't have to wait to see if his family will ask, which they might not.

It may be the cultural norm in certain places for the man's family to initiate the proposal process, but there is no prohibition on the woman's family doing so.

And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.

:sl:
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IslamicRevival
12-01-2011, 10:59 PM
As far as i was aware, Hijab is Fardh, Veil is optional
All the best in your quest for finding the perfect partner
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
:wa:

By looks, I meant appearance. Some people put more emphasis on how you appear rather than your personality. Like in a job interview. If I wore jeans and a ripped shirt to a job interview, I would not be successful, even if I had the right personality.

Now I'm speaking from experience, but most Muslim men that I know want their wife to wear a Hijab/Niqaab so other men don't perv on them. Nothing about their wife to please Allah was ever mentioned. Also, most Muslim women want their husbands to shave their beard from my experience.

Of course their are Muslims that want their spouse to adhere to the Islamic dress code in order for them to please Allah.
Seems like a dodgy survey you conducted there. How big was your sample? lol

On a serious note "certain" men who want their wives to adhere to wearing the veil conform to the majority opinion regarding the face veil which is that it is obligatory. Sameway "certain" women who want their potential partners to have a beard conform to the majority opinion regarding the beard which is that it is waajib (compulsory).

Of course there are many men who hate the sight of a veil and are happy with their partners wearing just the hijaab with no mention of jilbaab (Some men even hate the sight of hijaab). Sameway many women do not like the appearance of the beard, but those men and women should know that the veil and the beard are the greatest Sunnah's of Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallim). All of Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallim) women folk wore it and all the Prophets and Sahabas had beards. Surely anyone who "dislikes" the sight of a beard and the veil also dislikes that which Allah loves.
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IslamicRevival
12-01-2011, 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
On a serious note "certain" men who want their wives to adhere to wearing the veil conform to the majority opinion regarding the face veil which is that it is obligatory.
I thought it was the other way around? Majority of Muslims hold onto the view that it is compulsory for women to wear the Hijab, Wearing the face veil is personal choice and optional
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by ardianto
Can a woman propose marriage to a man ?
:sl:

Most certainy she can and such women should not be looked down upon. There are hadith in Bukhari where a women offered herself to the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallim) for marriage and the Prophet did not rebuke or criticise her for it. So it is perfectly fine and any culture that looks down upon such women is backward.

Some ways that she could do this would be to ask her parents to approach his parents; or to send a message through someone who knows him (for example his sister, aunt, cousin, etc) that she is interested, in order to learn if he also might be interested.

However If there is no way of her getting anyone else to approach him (like her mahrams, elder women in the family or last resort a friend) then as an absolute last resort she can approach him herself but she must be very careful to ensure she does so in the most honourable manner possible keeping within the boundaries of Islam. She should do so in public and in a straight forward manner, keeping her gaze low and making her intentions known, keeping the tone of her voice straight and to the point and and not soft, asking him if he wants the same so that he can contact her mahram etc.

Such a women has done nothing wrong in taking the initiative to find a good and pious partner as long as she is very careful and goes about it in the right manner within the boundaries of Islam.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Salahudeen
12-01-2011, 11:16 PM
Women who reject men cos of beards frustrate me, would they reject the prophet (saw) also cos he had a beard or any other great men who had beards. :hmm:
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Hamza Asadullah
12-01-2011, 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Vision
I thought it was the other way around? Majority of Muslims hold onto the view that it is compulsory for women to wear the Hijab, Wearing the face veil is personal choice and optional
:sl:

It was not a personal choice according to the Sahaba, Tabi'een, tabi tabi'een, according to the opinion of the four imaams and the majority of classical scholars and ulema of the past 1000 years.

Although the other opinion held by many modern day scholars which states that the veil is Mustahab (preferrable) but not obligatory should also be respected and a valid difference of opinion.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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Insaanah
12-01-2011, 11:35 PM
:sl: brother

Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
If there is no way of her getting anyone else to approach him then she can approach him herself in public in a straight forward manner, keeping gaze low and making her intentions known, keeping her tone firm and not soft. Asking him if he wants the same so that he can contact her mahram etc.
Is there any evidence to suggest that women at the time of the Prophet :saws: used to approach men on the street and say they were interested in marrying them and could they contact their mahram?

I know women offered themselves in marriage to the Prophet :saws:, but that was because he was a Prophet. But is there any evidence to suggest that this was done outside of those circumstances?

And, if a woman approaches a man in this way to ask if he can contact her mahram, that means that she does have someone else that can approach him on her behalf, and that means there is no need for her to do such a thing, because that's what the wali is for.

I fear for a lone woman approaching a man in this manner, regardless of how public the place is, certainly in this day and age.

And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I sad anything wrong.
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Hamza Asadullah
12-02-2011, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
:sl: brother



Is there any evidence to suggest that women at the time of the Prophet :saws: used to approach men on the street and say they were interested in marrying them and could they contact their mahram?

I know women offered themselves in marriage to the Prophet :saws:, but that was because he was a Prophet. But is there any evidence to suggest that this was done outside of those circumstances?

And, if a woman approaches a man in this way to ask if he can contact her mahram, that means that she does have someone else that can approach him on her behalf, and that means there is no need for her to do such a thing, because that's what the wali is for.

I fear for a lone woman approaching a man in this manner, regardless of how public the place is, certainly in this day and age.

And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I sad anything wrong.
:sl:

Regarding evidences for a women to be able to propose marriage to a man then the fact that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) did not rebuke the women who approached him (alone) for marriage shows the permissability of a women being able to propose marriage to a man even if she is alone (however it is not recommended for her to approach him without being accompanied by someone and would only be an absolute last resort). If the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) disliked the manner in which she approached him or anything about how she approached him then surely he would have said so.

In my last post I should have clarified further that if she cannot conduct the proposal through a mahram or any elder women in the family or elder friend etc at all for whatever reason, then she should at least be accompanied by someone or another, even a friend. However as i have mentioned the women approaching the man should only be done as a very last resort, if there is no possible way that she can get any mahram (or she may not have any mahram) or a chaperone to accompany her. But it would be quite rare for a women not to be able to conduct a propsal through a mahram or women folf of her family or even any elder women or friend or to at least bring someone with her if she cannot get anyone to conduct the proposal on her behalf. But there are sisters who are in such a situation who have no one.

Unfortunately there are many sisters out there who are completely alone in their pursuit for marriage or have very unsupportive families particularly they may have refused to marry someone of "the familys choice". Such women may not get any support in the pursuit of marriage. Hence making it very difficult for them to find a potential suitor. In such cases she should still try her best to at least get someone to accompany her. If not then she has no choice and she should approach the situation in the best and most honourable manner possible within the boundaries of Islam.

And Allah knows best in all matters
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GuestFellow
12-02-2011, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah
Seems like a dodgy survey you conducted there. How big was your sample? lol
Salaam,

Ah wut? O_o

I'm speaking from experience. No survey was conducted. :skeleton: I think I should start one. :p:
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Hamza Asadullah
07-02-2014, 09:53 PM
Surah Mulk will intercede for its reciter until they are forgiven:

It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (RA) that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said:

There is a Surah of the Quran containing thirty verses which have interceded for a man until he was forgiven. It is the Surah Tabaarak alladhi bi yadihi’l-mulk. (Al-Tirmidhi, 2891; Ahmad, 7634; Abu Dawood, 1400; Ibn Maajah, 3786)
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