PDA

View Full Version : Muslim Unity: Why Cant We Come Together As One Ummah?



IslamicRevival
12-08-2011, 11:45 PM
As Per Title
Reply

Login/Register to hide ads. Scroll down for more posts
Perseveranze
12-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think this is quite impossible. I'll use the example of Shia/Sunni. The issue with Shia's is, it's not necassarily their beliefs that can't be tolerated, it's usually when they incorporate that into commiting what Sunni's find as Blasphemy; such as insulting the Sahabah (ra) and the wives (ra) of the Prophet(pbuh).

If such a mentality exists, then never could Sunnis and Shia's be united, it just can't happen under such views/beliefs.
Reply

IslamicRevival
12-09-2011, 12:14 AM
Im well aware there are differences between various sects, Sufi, Salafi, Bralvi, Deobandi, Ahle Hadith, Shia etc etc but why cant we put these issues aside and unite for the sake of Islam?
Reply

Abz2000
12-09-2011, 04:37 AM
None of the groups are Muslim if they put it forward as their "sect" in Islam,
There's only one Islam, that is submission to the Will of God.
The notion of why can't Sunnis and Shias unite is in itself a cause of division, simply because we are categorising and creating denominations,
If we said, "why can't we all unite on the truth", it would be more objective and give reason for everyone to start on common ground, because as soon as one mentions Sunni to a Shia or Shia to a Sunni, it creates a slide and barrier in the brain.
We will soon inshaAllah get together and the scholars will argue points together under the banner of one khalifah, then we will have unity and strength.
Reply

Welcome, Guest!
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up
esperanza
12-09-2011, 05:27 AM
well seeing this title ihave to answer..why cant muslims ome together as one Umnah
beasue they are too affeted by cultural national and personal divisions
im not talking about the obvious shia sunni one..
no...but between arabs and non arabs...reverts and non reverts..asian and arab...
you dont agree..just lookat some post only here on this site
there is too muh division resentment and understanding just on interent ccommuniteis let alone across the world
very big cchanges are needed...................
Reply

Ali_008
12-09-2011, 09:52 AM
Because we are too egoistic to settle our differences even for Allah.

P.s. - Astaghfirullah :cry:
Reply

ardianto
12-09-2011, 10:42 AM
A : Hey ..! that's bidah ..!
B : Who said .. ?! it's sunah !
A : Bidah !
B : Sunah !
A : Bidah !
B : Sunah !

Suddenly they hear azan. Then they stop their debate, perform salah jamaah in masjid together. And after they finish their salah ....

A : Bidah !
B : Sunah !
A : Bidah !
B : Sunah !

That's just an illustration, but based on real cases in Indonesia. In Indonesia, Muslims always debate in their never ending debate. It's okay. They can debate until the end of the world, but in the time they should be united, they should be united, like A and B in that illustration.

That's what I have seen in Indonesia. But unfortunately, in some English Islamic forums I found questions like "Am I allowed to salah behind ...." or "If I perform salah behind ........ is my salah valid ?"

Hmmm, maybe those posters need to come to Indonesia.
Reply

Salahudeen
12-09-2011, 11:21 AM
Unity won't be achieved untill the scholars that people follow preach unity instead of, "Stay away from that mosque its a wahabi mosque" "stay away from listening to him he's devient" cos people look up to scholars and follow what they say, if they united then the people who followed them would unite.

It's this kind of attitude that exists amongst everyone

Reply

♥ Sofia ♥
12-09-2011, 04:04 PM
:salamext:

as others have mentioned... too many sects, too many divisions. sects within sects, groups within groups. some views held by certain groups are considered too deviant to be accepted back onto the path of morality.

then there's human emotions and judgement. prejudice. the issues of racism and other unislamic attitudes as such. there's always going to be people who think their beliefs are right and will point fingers at others. some people consider others extremists and others consider groups as people who commit shirk.

as long as over dramatic emotional responses are around the problem won't rid itself.

may Allah (swt) unite this ummah as one in the very near future.
Reply

جوري
12-09-2011, 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by ♥ Sofia ♥
too many sects, too many divisions. sects within sects, groups within groups. some views held by certain groups are considered too deviant to be accepted back onto the path of morality.
I disagree that there are too many sects. Shiites in totality makeup only 10%, they're divided amongst themselves and vocal because they're being sponsored by the agents of the devil, who gave birth to them anyway.. When Germans started flocking to Islam in hundreds of thousands, British sponsored and created Ahmadis opened the biggest center there, to nip in the bud the scary growth, as it would mean only one thing, one very obvious thing.
Problem is not the quantity of us, we're indeed many. Many who are meek and ineffectual as the prophet PBUH described akin to the foam on the ocean waves.
The right path is manifest and it is 90% of the ummah, the subdued ummah who is being muzzled and controlled by the hypocrite and the ignorant of leaders and those who choose to walk in their path-- the truth it isn't occult, it isn't colored by difficulties, tongues or race.


[LEFT]Sahih International
And, [moreover], this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.

__________________________


Sahih International
And this [Qur'an] is a Book We have revealed [which is] blessed, so follow it and fear Allah that you may receive mercy.

__________________________________________________ _


Sahih International
Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only
to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

_______________________________________


There's no excuse. Islam is complete, it is all there in the Quran and Sunnah which is incumbent upon us to read and live by.. there are indeed those who follow their own whims and inclinations and what a sad thing that is.

6:56." Say, "I will not follow your desires, for I would then have gone astray, and I would not be of the [rightly] guided."

:w:




Reply

truthseeker63
12-09-2011, 08:23 PM
Is Nationalism to blame ?
Reply

جوري
12-09-2011, 08:29 PM
Originally Posted by truthseeker63
Is Nationalism to blame ?
Amongst other things.. One of the things that Islam did in its early inception is wipe away any sort of national pride, and warn against sectarianism very openly in the Quran as you see in the verses above.
People desire to follow their whims and think they can stand an open opponent against the law of Allah swt and the result is what you see.
There was a time when I was in ESL and I didn't speak English, we used to have these sort of definition exams, the teacher would define it or she warned against but gave us the option to render our own definition, there were three or four of us, and the ones who always thought they can outsmart the teacher failed, the ones who followed to a T moved on and learned. I don't of course mean to make the teacher akin to God, but to give you a mundane example. The road is defined, the woman was an expert English teacher, why let pride get in the way and think we can outsmart her? pride only stood in the way of progress, moving to other classes like science & math..
The law is already laid out for us and so is the straight path. And as in suret al-kahf for those who wish to follow it and those who choose another road they're certainly welcome to. But they shouldn't complain then about the system or their lives or the division etc etc.

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
Reply

♥ Sofia ♥
12-09-2011, 08:50 PM
alright, not too many sects as in 84768376 of them, maybe i exaggerated - but there's a significant division and 10% of all muslims is MORE than needed and there's probably many more amongst the 'guided' who seem to have gone off the straight path... wallahu alam. may Allah guide them.

the problem isn't the number of different groups at the end of the day. yes, scattered groups within one ummah is a problem in itself, but it's all the different 'proofs' people have and how persistent people are in trying to prove one another wrong which causes more tension than necessary.
Reply

Insaanah
12-09-2011, 08:58 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Vision
Muslim Unity: Why Cant We Come Together As One Ummah?
It depends what exactly it is, that you want the ummah to come together on.

If you mean coming together on Islam, as practised by the Prophet :saws: and his sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them) and not deviating from that, then absolutely, why can't we? We should leave every way that doesn't conform to the practice and belief of the Prophet :saws: and his companions, may Allah be pleased with them.

If you mean coming together to put rose tinted specs on, and not seeing injustices nor speaking out against them, then unity on that will inshaa'Allah will never happen, because there will always be a group that will speak out against injustice.

If we don't recognise that something's wrong, we can't put it right...

For change to occur, first we need to come together on Islam as practised by the prophet :saws: and sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them), and not be as an ummah (leaders especially) subservient to taaghoot. That in itself will solve a lot of problems inshaa'Allah.

For any problems that do remain, because the ummah will recognise that there are problems, there are injustices, there are things that need improving, we can work out what needs to be done, and then do it.
Reply

GuestFellow
12-09-2011, 10:09 PM
We're humans. We will always find something to disagree about. In what way do you want Muslims to unite?
Reply

Abz2000
12-09-2011, 11:04 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
We're humans. We will always find something to disagree about. In what way do you want Muslims to unite?
under one Caliph who we all accept, on the truth - without prejudice, let the scholars debate in the presence of the caliph and accept the final opinion of the Caliph,
then the only sects will be Muslim, Munafiq, and Kafir
Reply

GuestFellow
12-09-2011, 11:44 PM
^ I think even then there will be disagreements, not towards Islam but other issues.
Reply

Abz2000
12-10-2011, 12:36 AM
that's inevitable, and actually beneficial.
abu bakr (ra) and 'Umar (ra) would constantly argue in the presence of Allah's messenger (pbuh),
and the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) would listen to both attentively before coming to a decision,
when things were major, he would call together a council of the accepted leaders and let them give their arguments ,
then he would come to a decision.
Reply

Ali_008
12-10-2011, 01:36 AM
Even choosing a caliph will lead to another fight altogether, Ahl-e-hadeeth will want their member to be caliph and so will tableeghi-jamaat, jamaat-e-Islami etc. Nowadays, I'm also noticing the upsurge in the number of arguments over the Four Imaams. Thus, Hanafis won't tolerate Shafi'is, Hambali's won't listen to Malikis so on and so forth. :heated:
Reply

Aprender
12-10-2011, 01:37 AM
Good question. I'm still trying to figure this one out as I am still relatively new to Islam. I've seen unity on a micro-level...
Reply

Abz2000
12-10-2011, 04:59 AM
don't worry, it will be easy soon to notice the difference between the believers and the rejecters,
when certain people appear, the jews will either follow the messiah or reject, the christians will either follow jesus or reject, and the shiah's will either accept the mahdi or reject,
each claims allegiance to the respective names, the truth will be easy to see...........................................and those who reject will fall into the party of the "one eyed king",

remember the old saying?

in the land of the blind - the one eyed man is king.
Reply

ardianto
12-10-2011, 05:59 AM
The most beautiful moment for Muslims is the moment when Muslims perform salah jama'ah in masjid.

Look, you can see Muslims who put their hands on belly, Muslims who put their hands on chest, or even Muslims who do not fold their hands. Ask them why they put their hands on belly, why put hands on chest, why do not fold the hands ?, all of them will answer, this is the right way to perform salah.

They follow different opinion, they follow different fiqh, but these diversities do not prevent them to build a unity.

The key to build unity is accept diversity.
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-10-2011, 06:23 AM
as good intentioned this unity concept sounds, I have no interest in uniting with agnostic Muslims, atheist Muslims, secular Muslims, with progressive liberal Muslims, with ex-Muslims, with mulhids, with ahmadis/qadiyanis, with Lahori group, with Quraniites/hadith rejectors, with shiites, with gay Muslims, and with feminist Muslims. Acceptance of such diversity only exists in delusions.
Reply

ardianto
12-10-2011, 06:43 AM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
as good intentioned this unity concept sounds, I have no interest in uniting with agnostic Muslims, atheist Muslims, secular Muslims, with progressive liberal Muslims, with ex-Muslims, with mulhids, with ahmadis/qadiyanis, with Lahori group, with Quraniites/hadith rejectors, with shiites, with gay Muslims, and with feminist Muslims. Acceptance of such diversity only exists in delusions.
There is difference between diversity and deviation.
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-10-2011, 06:53 AM
Originally Posted by ardianto
There is difference between diversity and deviation.
I think all those examples are deviation bro.

Diversity can be stuff like madhaahib such as Shafii/maliki etc.
Reply

Eric H
12-10-2011, 08:50 AM
Greetings and peace be with you Vision;

Unity starts with prayer, we must be able to pray for each other and with each other, that we might all acheive salvation despite our differences.

In the spirit of praying to the One God that created each and every one of us, with all our differences.

Eric
Reply

peace_maker
12-10-2011, 02:59 PM
We can come together but, we don't want to come together. People are too arrogant and ignorant to give up their ancestral false beliefs and accept the reality. Even if it is for the sake of Allah, astaghfirullah. I don't understand how Muslims have actually divided themselves up! If all Muslims start living like the way Muslims should live i.e. by following the Quran and Sunnah, then there will be no difference amongst us. It's just like what our beloved Prophet (PBUH) said, to get hold of the Quran and Sunnah or else you'll go astray. Sadly, this is case for many Muslims today... they've gone astray.
Reply

Salahudeen
12-10-2011, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by peace_maker
We can come together but, we don't want to come together. People are too arrogant and ignorant to give up their ancestral false beliefs and accept the reality. Even if it is for the sake of Allah, astaghfirullah. I don't understand how Muslims have actually divided themselves up! If all Muslims start living like the way Muslims should live i.e. by following the Quran and Sunnah, then there will be no difference amongst us. It's just like what our beloved Prophet (PBUH) said, to get hold of the Quran and Sunnah or else you'll go astray. Sadly, this is case for many Muslims today... they've gone astray.
The trouble is you will not meet anyone from the major sects such as ahlal hadith, sufism, deobandi's, who doesn't claim to follow the Qur'an and sunnah, they all claim to follow the Qur'an and sunnah, where they differ is in their understanding of the Qur'an and sunnah. They differ on aqeedah, on stuff like "where is Allah" are Allah's attributes to be understood literally or metaphorically etc this is the problem, they all differ on aqeedah but all claim to follow Qur'an and sunnah.

And they bash each other over the issues I mentioned above.
Reply

peace_maker
12-10-2011, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Tragic Typos
We're humans. We will always find something to disagree about. In what way do you want Muslims to unite?
In the way of Allah. We are humans and we do disagree. But we have the right to disagree in worldly matters only, not in the rules laid by Allah. We must follow it the way it is, not go over a debate or an arguement.
Reply

Innocent Soul
12-10-2011, 03:27 PM
^ I agree with you.

And say to My slaves (i.e. the true believers of Islamic Monotheism) that they should (only) say those words that are the best. (Because) Shaitan (Satan) verily, sows disagreements among them. Surely, Shaitan (Satan) is to man a plain enemy. [Al Qur'aan 17:53]

Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path. (Surah Baqara 2:213)
Reply

peace_maker
12-10-2011, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
The trouble is you will not meet anyone from the major sects such as ahlal hadith, sufism, deobandi's, who doesn't claim to follow the Qur'an and sunnah, they all claim to follow the Qur'an and sunnah, where they differ is in their understanding of the Qur'an and sunnah. They differ on aqeedah, on stuff like "where is Allah" are Allah's attributes to be understood literally or metaphorically etc this is the problem, they all differ on aqeedah but all claim to follow Qur'an and sunnah. And they bash each other over the issues I mentioned above.
I don't understand how they fail to understand such an easy message. Everything in the Quran and Hadeeths are crystal clear. People make a big issue outta nothing unnecessarily. :hmm:
Reply

جوري
12-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by peace_maker
I don't understand how they fail to understand such an easy message. Everything in the Quran and Hadeeths are crystal clear. People make a big issue outta nothing unnecessarily.
It stems from their lack of understanding of Arabic unfortunately, they render their own definition to words.. I remember someone Ismaeli using 'imam mobeen' from suret yaseen to denote their physical imam whom they revere..
That's why one should learn Arabic and learn the religion not concoct like the kaffirs do their own desired renditions..
of course some Shiites don't read the Quran all together, one time I showed one shiite the verses against shiites and all it could elicit was 'oh wow how interesting' ..
sob7an Allah..
Reply

ardianto
12-10-2011, 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Salahudeen
They differ on aqeedah, on stuff like "where is Allah" are Allah's attributes to be understood literally or metaphorically etc this is the problem,
But in the time to perform salah, you can see those who follow Ashari, Maturidi, and Athari perform salah together as jama'ah. It's means diversity in aqeedah is not a matter that can prevent them to build a unity when they should be united.

Did you ever heard Muslims from Hanafi and Shafii refuse to perform salat-ul jama'ah in Masjidil Haram because the imam follow different aqeedah ?
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-10-2011, 06:11 PM
ooh, dont even mention Ismailis. Much more than that, I am despising Ahmadis. These idiots have put an amazing peaceful and progressive facade to show to the western world on how civil and how persecuted they are under the Sunni Muslims. and of course their Noble Prize Laureate Dr. Abdus Salam becomes a part of every conversation blah blah

Ismailis and Ahmadis with the background support are taking over all the academia positions in the West. And Sunni's remain interested in Tom Cruise cruising in UAE and standing on some stupid tower. Or in Veena Malik.
Reply

جوري
12-10-2011, 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
ooh, dont even mention Ismailis. Much more than that, I am despising Ahmadis. These idiots have put an amazing peaceful and progressive facade to show to the western world on how civil and how persecuted they are under the Sunni Muslims. and of course their Noble Prize Laureate Dr. Abdus Salam becomes a part of every conversation blah blah

Ismailis and Ahmadis with the background support are taking over all the academia positions in the West. And Sunni's remain interested in Tom Cruise cruising in UAE and standing on some stupid tower. Or in Veena Malik.
The British created the ahamdi brand and it is the only thing they want to deal with. They can accept that as Islam all they want, that's no brand that we acknowledge.. what I despise however is when they put these heathens under Muslim and enable them to make pilgrimage when genuine Muslims have like those in China as an ex. have to wait 20-30 yrs if at all for visa approval

:w:
Reply

CosmicPathos
12-10-2011, 07:31 PM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
The British created the ahamdi brand and it is the only thing they want to deal with. They can accept that as Islam all they want, that's no brand that we acknowledge.. what I despise however is when they put these heathens under Muslim and enable them to make pilgrimage when genuine Muslims have like those in China as an ex. have to wait 20-30 yrs if at all for visa approval

:w:
These kaafir Ahmadis are really raising a movement in pakistan that how they feel hurt when they dont have the freedom to call themselves Muslims according to Pakistani constitutional change in 1970s made by General Zia. And seems teh gullible public at large believes in the cause of Ahmadis. Sad reality of Pakistanis.
Reply

peace_maker
12-10-2011, 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by ßlµêßêll
It stems from their lack of understanding of Arabic unfortunately, they render their own definition to words.. I remember someone Ismaeli using 'imam mobeen' from suret yaseen to denote their physical imam whom they revere.. That's why one should learn Arabic and learn the religion not concoct like the kaffirs do their own desired renditions..of course some Shiites don't read the Quran all together, one time I showed one shiite the verses against shiites and all it could elicit was 'oh wow how interesting' ..sob7an Allah..
Sister, these days Quran and Hadeeths are in various languages, making it is easy to understand them. Okay, even if it is like that, then it is likely that uneducated people usually fell in these kinda beliefs, since they can't understand any book on their own and would ask for help, and the person translating might not explain him correctly. The reason could be that the translator would want to bring the person in his beliefs or whatever... But, what about the well educated people? It is astonishing to see very succesfull people felling in puddles unknowingly??
Reply

AabiruSabeel
12-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Call to Muslims to Become an Ummah
Reply

Aprender
12-12-2011, 07:40 AM
It's tough too when I go try to learn more about Islam and when I'm looking for biographies I get things like this.... :hmm:

[Blasphemous video removed]
Reply

Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, you can participate in the discussions and share your thoughts. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and make new friends.
Sign Up

IslamicBoard

Experience a richer experience on our mobile app!