Is it possible for me to become a Muslim and remain uncircumcised?

[CuriousIncident]

I am thinking of reverting to Islam but this is one of the things that I am unsure about. I would be a bit scared of getting circumcised and I know there is anesthetic but I would still be scared of the pain.

Also, doesn't Allah forbid altering the body? That is what I heard a few weeks ago.

[syed1]

I am not sure if it is compulsory or not, I hope someone can shed light on that aspect.

I want to say that it is normal to be scared but you should understand that it is only a minor surgery which heals very quickly. Second, God will help you in the process and make it easy for you inshallah since your intention will be to ultimately please Allah by following his commands.

That being said, you should also realize that there are many medical benefits of being circumcised (prevention of STD etc). just do a quick youtube search on circumsision in Islam and you will find many answers and perspectives, pay attention to zakir naiks responses.

yes you are right, Allah does forbid one to alter the body, ie. getting tatoees and enlarging ones earlobe but in terms of circumcision I believe it pre-dates the Quran and it is something which we do in an attempt to follow our beloved prophet.

[Amat Allah]

read here O my respected brother:

http://islamqa.info/en/ref/463/Circumcision

[MustafaMc]

I would not let the fear of circumcision prevent you from becoming a Muslim. This is a private matter that only you, your wife and Allah (swt) will know. It is preferable to follow the sunnah as much as is possible without becoming overburdened.

In Bukhari Narrated Abu Huraira : I heard the Prophet saying. "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra: circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, cutting the moustaches short, clipping the nails, and depilating the hair of the armpits."

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[sabr*]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

shouldn't this have been a brothers only thread.......

Appears to be based upon who is submitting

[Abz2000]

As-Salāmu `Alaykum (السلام عليكم):

shouldn't this have been a brothers only thread.......

Appears to be based upon who is submitting

brother sabr,
you've been on the forum a whole year longer than me,
are you not aware that curious incident doesn't yet have ACCESS to the brothers' thread?

and this is a medical and religious issue, not a sexual one,


brother curious, it is not as painful as one might think, the actual process is not painful at all,
it is done under anesthesia, then for the next week or two, you are advised to lay low and let it heal,
just like any cut on the hand.

i had my son's done in the first three months,
it was the plastibell ring method which seemed the simplest
but the doctor you go to may prefer a different method depending on their observations
please also be aware that many atheists also have this done simply for the purposes of hygiene,
as that area is most susceptible to bacterial growth after intimacy,
or with some people who don't wash anyways =)
it makes life a lot easier when showering etc and requires only a week's investment
i guess you may also be aware of the sensory benefits it has for the partner since the skin is not stationary,
but let's not go too deep into that now ;)
DO IT!

[Riana17]

Hi Brother

Mashallah you are way to go, you have a very small concern, dontworry about it

Here in ME we have lots of Indians and you say huge percentage of them (except Muslims) are NOT circumsized and they are doing it after they come here, many due to health issue

anyway you will just need maximum a week to heal, Ive seen my young brothers when I was young and it didnt take so long


One more thing, circumsition is also being taught in the Bible, Prophet Jesus (pbuh) was circumcised few days after birth. Luke 2:21

[CosmicPathos]

you should get circumcised. because as Muslims, at least the ones in living in Middle East, they feel disgust towards someone whose phallus is not circumcized. Such people are considered unclean and impure. For example, one common joke that Pakistanis make of Hindus is by mocking their uncircumcized phalluses. I am not sure what Islam's take on it is, but Islam obligates the circumcision of a Muslim male child born to Muslim parents.

[Abz2000]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraphimosis

[Abz2000]

Why would you need circumcision? That is the old law. That doesn't apply to us today. Does it?

it does, and always did, unless you believe Abraham (pbuh) through Jesus (pbuh) were all wrong and paul was right.
Judeo-Christian actually sounds funny too, since it makes me think you have to see Jesus as an impostor and God at the same time
another contradiction 4 u 2 deal with, sorry if u have 2 many on your plate already.

[syed1]

it does, and always did, unless you believe Abraham (pbuh) through Jesus (pbuh) were all wrong and paul was right.
Judeo-Christian actually sounds funny too, since it makes me think you have to see Jesus as an impostor and God at the same time
another contradiction 4 u 2 deal with, sorry if u have 2 many on your plate already.

dude don't be harsh.. the man just asked a question no need to hurt his feelings

[CuriousIncident]

Thank you everyone for your kind words but I am still a bit scared and you could say that it is one of the many things that are stopping me from becoming a Muslim. I am still unsure. On some websites, it says that reverts do not have to be circumcised but it is highly recommended. Can someone tell me clearly if it is obligatory or only highly recommended?

[serena77]

Brother CI ...

I waited a LONG time to revert. For some very personal reasons. They weren't incorrect... but for a lot of things, I was seeing the trees but not seeing the forest ... while I can understand being cautious ... I also learned over the time I was studying.... that the leap is really really important. I'm not trying to push you into anything you aren't ready for.. though i will say.. * after my own experiences... * a lot of your replies look like some of mine... maybe your more ready than you think... be patient w/ yourself..... but don't sell yourself short on knowing what is right...

hope i made sense... I can't really answer your main question here, just replying to the last thing you said.
Serena

[syed1]

I think it is safe to assume that circumcision is highly recommendatory and not obligatory. Allah hu alim

[Abz2000]

here's some info from wiki, though it's not always reliable, some good scholars do often keep tabs on pages like this:

The origin of circumcision in Islam is a matter of religious and scholarly debate. It is mentioned in some hadith, but not in the Qur'an. Some fiqh scholars state that circumcision is recommended (sunnah), others that it is obligatory.^[36] Some have quoted the hadith to argue that the requirement of circumcision is based on the covenant with Abraham.^[37]
The timing of Muslim circumcision varies. Turkish, Balkan, rural Egyptians and Central and South Asian Muslims typically circumcise boys between the ages of six and eleven.^{[citation needed]} Traditionally, Turkish circumcisions are celebrated with sweets and the Sünnet Düğünü, or "Circumcision Feast/Celebration," and performed rarely with no anesthetic. It is considered a very important celebration in man's life as apassage to manhood. Many parents of children born in hospitals now choose to have their sons circumcised in the hospital setting, a few days after birth.^[38] In Pakistan, Muslims may be circumcised at all ages from the newborn period to adulthood, though the medical profession has encouraged medical circumcisions in the first week after birth to reduce complications: "Circumcision is performed by barbers, medical technicians, quacks and doctors including paediatric surgeon[s] [and as] yet there is no consensus for the best age and method."^[39] In Iran, Dr. Paula Drew states that “circumcision, which formerly celebrated the onset of manhood, has for many years now been more customarily performed at the age of 5 or 6 for children born at home, and at two days old for those born in a medical setting.…By puberty, all Muslim Iranian boys must be circumcised if they are to participate fully in religious activities.”^[40] Kamyar et al. describe circumcision as an "obligatory custom" and note that it is not necessary for the circumciser to be a Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_male_circumcision


i believe it's because you've got so used to seeing it as normal that it seems like a giant leap, i would however assure you that the 2.1 billion Muslims
http://www.religiouspopulation.com/ and the remaining jews and some christians and atheists and a few others
see it as a piece of extra skin in the way and not to be treasured =)
surely you're not afraid to cut your nails or shave
man up to it:)

[MustafaMc]

I think it is safe to assume that circumcision is highly recommendatory and not obligatory. Allah hu alim

There is no question but that this is the correct view. Don't let those who say otherwise and tell you to 'be a man about it', implying you are some kind of wimp, keep you from becoming a Muslim.

There is no question that keeping a beard is a sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saaws) and yet few are the Muslim men today who have a beard of any sort. Furthermore, there are many Muslimahs who publically refuse to wear the hijab even though this is another undisputed sunnah that borders on obligatory. These are examples of Muslims who publically refuse to follow a sunnah (for their own private reasons) yet who, except your wife and Allah, will know whether or not you are circumscised?

Do not hesitate to become a Muslim. Other than the point about obediently following a sunnah, the main advantage I see for circumscision is the ease of cleaning yourself of all traces of urine after urinating. This point is obligatory as ritual cleanliness is essential for prayer to be accepted. You can acknowledge circumscision to be an accepted sunnah and have the intention to 'go all the way' one day when your faith is stronger.

[Riana17]

Asalam Brother

All I can say is Believing and living life for ONE GOD is beyond important than circumsition
it takes one to know one, if you think you are ready to be Muslim and there is no doubt in your mind, inshallah you will take shahada

I have found some interesting fatawa which explain the matter distinctly and
wisely, masha'Allah:

"While circumcision is an incumbent religious duty
in Islam, it is not a condition for being a Muslim. Given that, it doesn't
affect the validity of his prayer, or your marriage." http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1&cate0&t=rss

"Because
of this difference of opinion, scholars are generally easy-going and gentle with
recent converts to Islam on the issue of circumcision." http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...3&cate=0&t=rss

May Allah swt guide you to the right path,Amen

[Amat Allah]

May Allah guide your way to the path of the endless happiness O my respected brother Ameeeeeen

[Predator]

Why would you need circumcision? That is the old law. That doesn't apply to us today. Does it? :hiding:

Of course it does as Jesus(PBUH) said he didnt come to abrogate the old law

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"

[MustafaMc]

Of course it does as Jesus(PBUH) said he didnt come to abrogate the old law

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"

Exactly what I was thinking.

Matthew 19:16-17 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

[Amat Allah]

Sub'haana Rabbi Al 3atheem,

I don`t only believe in Bible and Torah but I do realy love them so much that I wish I could read the original ones from the times of Jesus and Moses (peace and blessings of Allah be upon them) and hold them close to my heart so tight; they are so precious; they are the words of my love my Lord...laa ilaha illa Allah.

O my respected brother ; the poster of this thread, if you are ready to submit fully to your Lord as a slave and servant then never let anything stop ya from running to your Creator The Most Merciful, in shaa Allah...

Trust me O brother ; you will never regret it ever never and you will wish that you have known your way to Him before just as I did:cry: and many too

I swear by The One Who created the whole world and own everything even our breaths that I never known the real happiness ever till I knew Him The Exalted and I have never known honor and absolute mercy and kindness but when I knew how to put my forehead and nose on the ground just for His sake....laa ilaha illa Allah.

your sinful sister here saw nothing from The Lord of the worlds but good and that fills the heart with shame of Him AlMighty ; Who gives, forgives and acceptes the repentance of His slaves even those who were the worst and no matter how much we may sin then He still calling us to return to Him; to run to His mercy and forgiveness...

if being the slave of Allah then you won`t lose but will own everything even if having nothing cause right then when His love enters your heart after knowing Him The Exalted then nothing matters but Him...laa ilaha illa Allah.

and if not being His slave then I don`t wana be ever; even if having all the pleasures of this world cause without Him; I am nothing and not even nothing:cry: laa ilaha illa Allah.

[CosmicPathos]

While it is true, as MustafaMC has pointed out, you should not stay away from accepting Islam just cuz you do not want to get circumcised.

But MustafaMC is incorrect in saying that the only benefit of circumcision is cleanliness. That is half the story. Circumcision represents the Sunnah of Ibrahim and is little more than a hygience practice. It has come to us as a ritual and practice in which we take great pride and associate it with tawheed. Athesits might reap benefits from circumcision, but circumcision as a ritual practice is something that Muslims do, and it means a lot to Muslims, aside from its religious importance.

That being said, no Muslim, except your wife, will know if you are circumcised or not, so it is entirely your call. But I just wanted to point out the cultural significance of circumcision. And dont give me "Islam is not culture" stuff. Humans cannot exist without culture, and there is nothing wrong with cultures which does not go against Islam. It seems that a consensus exists across the Muslim world that circumcision of a male child is something to be proud of. And Muslims in east look at the uncircumcised kaafirs who hate Islam with disgust, as Allah swt has commanded us to hate their kufr. Since being circumcised is taken to mean something to be proud of, being uncircumcised is taken as a token of shame.

[MustafaMc]

Assalamu alaikum, Brother, I tend to agree with your point, but I believe I was misunderstood that the only benefit of circumcision is cleanliness. My statement was , "Other than the point about obediently following a sunnah, the main advantage I see for circumcision is the ease of cleaning yourself of all traces of urine after urinating. We all vary in the degree of our knowledge and our own personal adherence to the sunnah of our blessed Prophet (saaws), but we should all strive to do better, including becoming circumcised if not already.

If I remember correctly from the video by Brother Zakir Naik, he was discussing some benefits of circumcision that include protection from diseases such as AIDS. I am not sure where he is coming from on this as the best protection from AIDS is to not commit zina. My point was that if he did not get circumcised, then he should take extra care to clean himself.

[CosmicPathos]

Assalamu alaikum, Brother, I tend to agree with your point, but I believe I was misunderstood that the only benefit of circumcision is cleanliness. My statement was , "Other than the point about obediently following a sunnah, the main advantage I see for circumcision is the ease of cleaning yourself of all traces of urine after urinating. We all vary in the degree of our knowledge and our own personal adherence to the sunnah of our blessed Prophet (saaws), but we should all strive to do better, including becoming circumcised if not already.

If I remember correctly from the video by Brother Zakir Naik, he was discussing some benefits of circumcision that include protection from diseases such as AIDS. I am not sure where he is coming from on this as the best protection from AIDS is to not commit zina. My point was that if he did not get circumcised, then he should take extra care to clean himself.

I apologize for not completely reading your statement.

Yes circumcision exposes the skin and constant trauma hardens the skin on glans, and hence it becomes difficult for HIV to transmit to epithelial cells and eventually to dendritic cells in order to establish infection. That being said, HIV can still break the barrier and start replication. The best preventative step, as you mentioned, is abstinence, and getting the person one is going to marry checked for HIV status over at least a 6 month period.

[Predator]

Exactly what I was thinking.

Matthew 19:16-17 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

There are several of these kind of condtradictions . Wine , for instance

Leviticus 10:9 . Do not drink wine nor strong drink

Contradicted by "Doctor" Paul's advice

1 Timothy 5:23

Stop drinking only water. Instead, drink a little wine for your stomach because you are frequently sick.

[Flame of Hope]

Thank you everyone for your kind words but I am still a bit scared and you could say that it is one of the many things that are stopping me from becoming a Muslim. I am still unsure. On some websites, it says that reverts do not have to be circumcised but it is highly recommended. Can someone tell me clearly if it is obligatory or only highly recommended?

Dear brother CuriousIncident,

Islam is about worshiping your Lord... and to worship NONE but He.

That's it. Everything else is secondary.

As human beings we will never be perfect and we can never get rid of the evil that is within us. Even if we were to follow all the rules, we would still never reach the station of perfection.

There are rules in Islam that many Muslims follow, but as a beginner you are not obligated to follow them until you understand their need.

People may tell you that you are OBLIGED to follow those rules.... but the truth is, there is no compulsion in religion.

You do something because you want to do it not because people are telling you that you SHOULD.

If you are convinced that Allah is the only one who is worthy of worship, then drop everything and race to testify to this truth.

And then read these lines of Sura Baqarah which explains clearly how to achieve success in the Hereafter:

........................

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.

Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;

And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.

- (Quran 2:2-5)

......................


So to achieve success, one merely needs to do the following:

1. Since the guidance contained in the Qur'an is for the Muttaqeen (those who fear Allah), it follows that we must strive to REACH the status of Muttaqeen. To reach that status will take a lot of work and striving. The Muttaqeen are the ones who Allah has granted knowledge. So therefore, seek knowledge. And know that this is not going to happen overnight. It will take time. So be patient with yourself.

2. The Mutaqeen are described as those who firmly:

(i) believe in the Unseen.... (meaning, in the Unseen God, His angels, Heaven, Hell, the angels, etc.),

(ii) who are steadfast in prayer... (meaning, those who struggle to establish the prayer and beseech Allah to guide them and who do so regularly and consistently).

(iii) and who spend out of what Allah has provided for them... (meaning, those who spend out of their property, money, whatever they own, their energy and their time)

And

(iv) who believe in the Revelation sent to Prophet Muhammad (saws), and sent before his time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.



That's it! Nothing is said about rules.

The main point is to establish the prayer. Because it is THROUGH THE PRAYER that you will receive guidance from Allah.

Do it with the right attitude, acknowledging your helplessness, your weakness, your utter need for guidance and there is no reason why Allah would NOT guide you.

And if Allah guides you, you need not worry about anything else.

For whosoever Allah guides, NONE can misguide.

So focus on what is more important. First, the testimony of La ilaha il Allah, Muhammaddar Rasul Allah and then establish the prayer.

If that is in order, everything ELSE will be in order. You will be guided to do what is right... and to what Allah will accept.

In my opinion, you really do not need to think about getting circumcised. At least not right now. You can leave that as an option for later. But if you don't do it, that doesn't make you a bad Muslim. Just want you to know that.

May Allah help you and guide you. Ameen.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

Islam is about worshiping your Lord... and to worship NONE but He.

That is indeed what we were created for.

That's it. Everything is secondary.

No. Everything else helps us to do that.

As human beings we will never be perfect and we can never get rid of the evil that is within us. Even if we were to follow all the rules, we would still never reach the station of perfection.

The aim of Islam, to my limited knowledge, is not to achieve perfection. It is Christians who may feel that is the aim, and that because they are not able to achieve that, thus a perfect sacrifice was required, namely Jesus (peace be upon him).

There are rules in Islam that many Muslims follow, but as a beginner you are not obligated to follow them until you understand their need.

Understanding their need is not a pre-requisite. For example, some people, apart from it being impure, don't understand why pork was forbidden, but that does not remove the obligation from us, or from a new Muslim, of following that rule.

Certainly a new Muslim may not be able to do everything at once, and may feel suddenly overburdened by doing so, but by the same token, the importance and eventual impending urgency of following the rules should not be underestimated, otherwise, over time, there is the potential for one to become complacent.

People may tell you that you are OBLIGED to follow those rules.... but the truth is, there is no compulsion in religion.

You do something because you want to do it not because people are telling you that you SHOULD.

If you are convinced that Allah is the only one who is worthy of worship, then drop everything and race to testify to this truth.

There are many things in Islam that are obligations, things that Allah or his Prophet (peace be upon him) have told us we should do.

Let us not forget that while the testimony of faith makes one become a Muslim, maintaining that faith is about faith with the actions to go along with it. Faith must be accompanied by good deeds, which is why, countless times in the Qur'an, it states, "Indeed those who believe and do good deeds...."

That's it! Nothing is said about rules.

There are many rules in the Qur'an. Let us not let people think that Islam is a religion devoid of rules. It is not all rules like Judaism, and not all love devoid of rules, like the Christians. It is a middle way, a balance.

If that is in order, everything ELSE will be in order. You will be guided to do what is right... and to what Allah will accept.

We have to make an effort to do some things, even if your testimony of faith, and prayer, are in order. Otherwise people can think that if their testimony of faith is in order, and their prayers are in order, whatever else they do, they are being guided aright, whereas the reality is that sometimes even practising Muslims need motivation and need to make an effort to do something, and have to make a real effort to avoid sin and bad. It does require effort. It's not like the concept of the holy spirit that Christians have and they feel they are being guided aright all the time, whatever they do. Prayer is a very big help though, as you say.

[Hamza Asadullah]

I am thinking of reverting to Islam but this is one of the things that I am unsure about. I would be a bit scared of getting circumcised and I know there is anesthetic but I would still be scared of the pain.

Also, doesn't Allah forbid altering the body? That is what I heard a few weeks ago.

Greetings my friend. The following will answer your question:


In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,


When one becomes convinced and has strong belief that Islam is the true religion ordained by Allah Almighty for all human beings, then he should go ahead and accept Islam without any delay.

The basic beliefs one is required to accept while entering the fold of Islam are as following:

1) God is One. He has neither a partner, nor a son or daughter. He is One in the true sense of the word that has no room for the concept of trinity, or for any other form of camouflage monotheism or a disguised polytheism.

2) The Holy Prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him & give him peace) is the last Messenger of Allah after whom no messenger or prophet of Allah (in any sense of the word) will come.

3) The Holy Qur'an is the last of the divine books revealed upon the blessed Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace), and all its contents are true.

4) The life in the Hereafter (after death) is eternal, where one will face the fate of his good and evil deeds.

5) All the teachings of the Qur'an and the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) in absolute and unambiguous terms are true and acceptable.

When an individual accepts these fundamental beliefs of Islam from the depth of his heart, and rejects those beliefs of his former faith that contradict Islamic beliefs, then he will be considered a Muslim.

As far as the verbal acceptance is concerned, the majority (jumhur) of the scholars of Islamic creed (aqidah) are of the position that verbal confession is a condition in order for one to be called a Muslim in this world, and on which judgments are passed, such as: Marrying, inheriting, being buried in a Muslim graveyard, etc.

Since having a belief in the heart is a hidden thing that must have a sign, therefore, whosoever believes with his heart (tasdiq bil qalb) and does not confess with his tongue (iqrar bil lisan) is considered a believer with Allah Almighty, but not according to the judgments of this world (See: Sa'd al-Din al-Taftazani on the creed of Najm al-Din al-Nasafi, P. 190, Dar al-Bayruti, Damascus).

Therefore, if you are convinced of the basic and essential beliefs of Islam, then you are already considered a believer according to Allah Almighty. However, for you to be considered a believer in this world, you must confess and express your beliefs by saying the Shahadah.

Conversion to Islam is very simple and has no particular procedure, like baptism, etc. It is not necessary that one seeks the mediation of a saint or priest, nor is it a pre-requisite to go to a mosque or to an institution for accepting Islam. One can accept Islam on his own. However, it is advisable to go to a learned Muslim (preferably a scholar) who can inform you about the basic beliefs of Islam and can teach you the concise and comprehensive words to express the acceptance of those beliefs.

Normally the following sentences are used for that purpose:

"I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad, (Allah bless him & give peace), is His servant and messenger."

"I have believed in Allah and His angels and His book (as they were originally revealed on His prophets) and in His messengers and in the Last Day and in the fact that all the good and bad destinies come from Allah and in being raised alive after death."

Therefore, you must hasten towards verbally accepting Islam. There are no conditions or pre-requisites for accepting Islam. This is the religion (deen) chosen by the Almighty, and is the only religion which will save one from eternal punishment in the Hereafter. Therefore, go ahead and convert to Islam at once, without any delay, hesitation or thoughts about the practical side of Islam.

Allah Most High says:

"The Religion by Allah is Islam" (Qur'an 3:19).

In another verse of the Holy Qur'an, Allah states:

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, Never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost" ( Qur'an 3:85).

Circumcision:

As far as circumcision for males is concerned, it is a highly emphasised way of the Messenger of Allah (Sunnah Mu'akkadah) and one of the salient features of Islam (sha'air).

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) said: "The practices related to Fitrah(natural human ways) are five: Circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails and removing the hair of the underarm" ( Sahihal-Bukhari)

He (Allah bless him & give him peace) also said: "Circumcision is Sunnah for men and a source of pleasure (in sexual intercourse) by performing it on women" (Recorded by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad and Imam al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan with a weak chain of narrators, from Radd al-Muhtar).

In the light of the above, newborn males should be circumcised before the child has attained puberty. Failing to do so will amount in leaving out a salient feature of Islam.

Regarding a male who accepts Islam and is above the age of puberty, or a child who was not circumcised for some reason until he reached puberty, then this has three possibilities:

1) If the male is able to endure the act of circumcision and there is no fear of harm being afflicted on him, and also it is done by oneself as not to expose the Awra in front of another person, then circumcision should be carried out.

2) If one is able to bear and endure without the fear of harm, but at the same time it will mean exposing ones Awra in front of another person, then there is a difference of opinion between the scholars on whether circumcision should be carried out.

On one hand, we have the order of not exposing your Awra in front of other people except in dire situations, but on the other hand, we have this great salient feature of Islam. Some of the contemporary scholars have said that in this situation circumcision should be carried out for two reasons:

a) Circumcision is a form of treatment, and the Fuqaha have given a dispensation in exposing the Awra for treatment and medication.

b) The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is reported to have said: "Whoever accepts Islam should have his circumcision performed" (Talkhisal-Habir). In the light of the above narration, the scholars have said that if there is no fear of harm and the adult male is able to bear circumcision, then it should be carried out.

3) The third situation is where the grown up male is not in a position to tolerate or bear the pain of circumcision, or there is fear of harm being inflicted on him, then circumcision can be (and should be) avoided.

Islam is a religion of mercy and orders only that which is within the capacity and capability of an individual. It never commands that which is beyond ones capacity.

Allah Most High says:

"On no soul does Allah place a burden greater than it can bear" (Qur'an, 2:286).

The great Hanafi jurist, Imam al-Haskafi (may Allah have mercy on him) states:

"If an old person entered Islam, and (medical) experts were of the view that he won't be able to bear it, then circumcision should not be carried out" (Durr al-Mukhtar).

One of the great Hadith experts (hafidh), Ibn Hajr al-Asqalani (Allah have mercy on him) says:

"If the child attained puberty, and he is weak to an extent that if circumcision was carried out on him, he will perish, then the necessity of circumcision will no longer remain" (Fath al-Bari, 10/289).

Another Hadith expert and Hanafi scholar, Imam al-Kashmiri (Allah have mercy on him) states in his commentary of Sahih al-Bukhari:

"I don't recommend circumcision for those that have reached puberty, as it is very painful and could lead to death" (Faydh al-Bari, 4/413).

However, it should be remembered here, that he who opts not to be circumcised should regularly clean the area underneath the foreskin of his sex organ because, in Islam cleanliness of the body is obligatory for performing prayers.

In conclusion, you must not delay accepting Islam any longer. Explain to the people in your area that in the light of some of the above evidences, it is not required for a grown up person to be circumcised when it is painful for him. Enter this great religion of Allah and you will never be disappointed. May Allah guide to the straight path and keep us all steadfast on it (Ameen).

And Allah knows best


Source: http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=1731&CATE=115



So delay not in acknowledging your lord who has created you. He has given you everything and out of so many people he is wanting to guide you and bring you closer to him. So will you delay it further just because of such an issue? Surely death is a reality and can come to us at any moment then if we believe in the oneness of Allah and the finality of the last Prophet then let us proclaim so without further delay. So repeat:

Ash hadoo Allaah ilaaha illallaahoo wa ash hadoo anna Muhammadan Abduhoo wara sooloo

I bear witness that there is NO worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is his servant and messenger.


If you have anymore questions or need any help with anything at all then please do not hesitate to ask.

[CuriousIncident]

So just to confirm, if I am a teenager and I want to revert to Islam, it means that I do not need to get circumcised but I still need to ensure that I am clean?

[Flame of Hope]

No. Everything else helps us to do that.

:sl:

Everything else being secondary meant......... everything else besides Allah is secondary.

Our purpose in life is to worship Allah.... and not associate partners with Him.

You might commit a million sins that reach the sky, Allah will forgive you for all of that... with the condition that you did not commit shirk. (There's a hadith qudsi on this...)

Hence, the main concern for every Muslim is to learn how to keep self from committing shirk. Everything ELSE pales in significance.

And besides, the Prophet (saws) taught his messengers to invite people to Islam. And if they accepted Islam, he (saws) told them to establish the salah. And if a man were to just observe the five pillars of Islam, he was given the good news of success.

Islam is the religion of ease.

[Amat Allah]

So just to confirm, if I am a teenager and I want to revert to Islam, it means that I do not need to get circumcised but I still need to ensure that I am clean?

according to the above ; yes, thats right O my respected brother...so, run to your Lord and never let anything stop ya in shaa Allah...

May Allah be with ya guiding your way always and forever Ameeeeeeeeeeen

[Amat Allah]

Peace and blessings of Allah be upon Jesus. May Allah unite us with him in the highest level of the Paradise and all messengers, prophets, angels and righteous people from Jinn and Mankind Ameeeeeen

[MustafaMc]

So just to confirm, if I am a teenager and I want to revert to Islam, it means that I do not need to get circumcised but I still need to ensure that I am clean?

In conclusion, you must not delay accepting Islam any longer. Explain to the people in your area that in the light of some of the above evidences, it is not required for a grown up person to be circumcised when it is painful for him. Enter this great religion of Allah and you will never be disappointed. May Allah guide to the straight path and keep us all steadfast on it (Ameen).

And Allah knows best

I quote my respected Brother Hamza who has provided a detailed answer showing the importance of a man becoming circumcised, but at the same time showing "it is not required for a grown up person to be circumcised when it is painful for him" or when he is fearful of the pain it may cause him. I reiterate, do not hesitate to state your shahadah and become a Muslim. The testimony that there is One God and that Muhammad is His messenger is the single most important deed that a person can do followed by offering the Islamic prayer 5 times a day.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace


brother , if u are sure Islam is the Truth , then accept it first .


Then think about the other matters later .


U don't have to be a perfect Muslim from the first day. This kind of fear comes from Satan and he is trying to stop u from accepting the Truth.So , just utter the Shahada ' right now ' .

Then take a decision about following the examples of the Prophets ( peace be upon them all ).

[Flame of Hope]

The aim of Islam, to my limited knowledge, is not to achieve perfection. It is Christians who may feel that is the aim, and that because they are not able to achieve that, thus a perfect sacrifice was required, namely Jesus (peace be upon him).

:sl:

I don't think we can speak for ALL Christians here. I believe many Christians are aware of their imperfections. I also think people of other religions also know that perfection cannot be achieved.

Understanding their need is not a pre-requisite. For example, some people, apart from it being impure, don't understand why pork was forbidden, but that does not remove the obligation from us, or from a new Muslim, of following that rule.

Certainly a new Muslim may not be able to do everything at once, and may feel suddenly overburdened by doing so, but by the same token, the importance and eventual impending urgency of following the rules should not be underestimated, otherwise, over time, there is the potential for one to become complacent.

Each person learns at his own pace. We must respect that and not get annoyed if people are slow to learn. Understanding the need for rules IS a pre-requisite. If you follow a rule without understanding it, then you would be following it blindly. And that's VERY dangerous.

How can you follow directions correctly if you don't understand those directions in the first place?

Understanding is everything.

There are many things in Islam that are obligations, things that Allah or his Prophet (peace be upon him) have told us we should do.

Let us not forget that while the testimony of faith makes one become a Muslim, maintaining that faith is about faith with the actions to go along with it. Faith must be accompanied by good deeds, which is why, countless times in the Qur'an, it states, "Indeed those who believe and do good deeds...."

The main obligations are contained in the five pillars of Islam. If you believe and establish the prayer and do it with the proper attitude, asking Allah for guidance and help, you WOULD BE guided to do what is good.

In other words, if you believe, you would pray and ask for guidance. And if you pray and ask for guidance, you would be led to do good deeds that Allah would accept.

There are many rules in the Qur'an. Let us not let people think that Islam is a religion devoid of rules. It is not all rules like Judaism, and not all love devoid of rules, like the Christians. It is a middle way, a balance.

The verses that I quoted from Sura Baqarah inform us about what it takes to prosper in the Aakhirah. Look at them again. Nothing is said about rules.

[Ramadhan]

:sl:


This is clarifications about Islam section, and I think it is especially important to have opinions with daleel from Qur'an and authentic Ahadeeth.
Another thing is, a newly revert will not be able to implement every single obligation as a muslim and implement every aspect of sunnah in their life at once. Hey, I don't even know ANY muslim who does that.

I need to stress one thing: No one here is pressuring any newly revert that they must do this and that to qualify as a muslim. and we must always assume the best intention of our muslim brothers and sisters lest we are wrong and we will be asked about it by Allah SWT.

HOWEVER, it is also obliged for those muslims who know to share their knowledge about Islam to the newly reverts.
Also, this world is not black and white and is not perfect, and not everyone is the same. Some people are able to make changes in their life more easily than others, while some others are struggling to just keep the 5 times a day shalah.
Some newly reverts may have this idea that "I cannot not implement any sunnah until I can do the 5 times a day shalah", which in my opinion is not the best idea.
Saying "la Ilaaha Ilallaah" has endless consequences, one of those is to have 100% belief in the infinite wisdom of Allah and to take Qur'an in its entirety, and in the Qur'an Allah swt repeatedly commands us to obey the prophet SAW, which means following his sunnah. Who knows, by implementing some of his sunnah it will actually help us in obeying Allah's strong and basic commands.

I give you an example:
Avoiding zina is one of Allah's stronger commands. But we know how hard to do it these days. There are many stories from brothers who told me their stories how keeping beard (which is sunnah) help them in avoiding zina. It goes like this: when keeping beard, most people automatically assume they are more practicing muslim so they don't get invited to events where modesty might be compromised, and there are time when there was temptations to go to such places, but the brothers were conscious about their own beard and hence they got embarrassed. In this case their beard acted as their hijab.

So following sunnah actually help makes practicing Islam EASIER.
But oftentimes it is our own ego/nafs or whisperings from shaytaans that says it is oh so difficult.

Back to male circumcision, I think it is important to understand that atheistic society have been waging wars against it despite medical and hygienic benefits just because it is practiced by people with religion. Especially for those who live in western countries, and hence we may already have this unfavorable views of it without realizing it.

My advice to the brother curiousincident is:
enter Islam without delay if you are already convinced that it is the Truth. We never know when our life ends, and when our ruh (soul) is already at our throat (meaning: dying) it will be all too late for us. na'udzubillahi min dzalik.

You can make up your mind about getting circumcised later.

[Burninglight]

Dr. Naik is kind of hard to understand, but he knows a lot

[Nate]

im not going into detail but it is not like shaving or cutting your nails is weeks if not months of pain and discomfort. I have looked into this and its a easy thing to get done but healing and adjusting is totally different, IMO god made me this way I have no reason to change that, if I have a boy I will get him cut but my mother did not do that for me oh well. ;D

[Ramadhan]

im not going into detail but it is not like shaving or cutting your nails is weeks if not months of pain and discomfort

It is not true.
The healing only takes a week at most.
And the pain is only for one or two days. And with current medication, and circumcision using laser, the discomfort is minimum. I was circumcised when I was already 11 yo, so I remember vividly the experience

[CosmicPathos]

If you follow a rule without understanding it, then you would be following it blindly. And that's VERY dangerous.

hmm, okay lets say someone becomes a Muslim, yet they cannot stop doing zina because frankly it is acceptable in Christianity or in secular Western culture, so this new Muslim does not understand why it is forbidden, so they should keep on doing zina even after accepting Islam?

[CuriousIncident]

I will try my best to find out as much about Islam as I can. I will not rush because I need to know that Islam is for me and I need to truly believe in it. Thank you everyone!

[Nate]

11yo and adult are 2 diffrent things LOL

[Ramadhan]

I will try my best to find out as much about Islam as I can. I will not rush because I need to know that Islam is for me and I need to truly believe in it. Thank you everyone!

May Allah SWT give you guidance to the straight path. ameen.

I hope you keep continue to ask questions about Islam.

[CuriousIncident]

Nate - Is someone 11 years old?

[Nate]

that was directed at Ramadhan
:p

[CuriousIncident]

Oh I understand now. I did not understand what you meant. Sorry!

[CuriousIncident]

I did not understand what you mean*

Sorry, just correcting myself!

[Ramadhan]

11yo and adult are 2 diffrent things LOL

Fair enough.

Now let's see what adults, non-muslims, say about their adult circumcision experience and from the neutral, secular, point of view:

The procedure lasted an hour and recovery took a week or two

That was close to ten years ago now, and since that time I consider it to be the best decision I have made.

It annoys me that the anti circumcision lobby creates so many myths and lies about circumcision in order to prove their point.

http://www.circinfo.net/men_circumci..._as_it_is.html

[Nate]

Im just going off what the Docs told me, I wanted to get it done well before I reverted but they scared me off LOL even thinking of it scares me :phew

[Ramadhan]

Im just going off what the Docs told me, I wanted to get it done well before I reverted but they scared me off LOL even thinking of it scares me

Are those docs circumcised?

I have many relatives (including my own brother) who are not only doctors, but surgeons, and they don't say anything negative about adult male circumcision.

[Insaanah]

:sl:

You might commit a million sins that reach the sky, Allah will forgive you for all of that... with the condition that you did not commit shirk. (There's a hadith qudsi on this...)

Allah can forgive you all of that, of His own will, if He so chooses and for whom He so chooses. But it shouldn't be taken as a given, that as long as I don't do shirk, I won't worry too much, as Allah is going to forgive me.

See the following verses:

Sahih International
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin. (4:48)

Muhsin Khan
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly gone far astray. (4:116)

You may be referring to this beautiful hadeeth:

The Prophet :saws: said: “Allah, Blessed and Exalted is He, says, ‘O son of Adam, as long as you call on Me, I shall forgive you of what you have done, and think nothing of it. O son of Adam, even if your sins were to reach up to the clouds in the sky, and then you were to ask for My forgiveness, I would forgive you and think nothing of it. O son of Adam, even if you were to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth, and then you were to meet Me after death, not worshipping anything besides Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as the earth.’” [Tirmidhi]

If we look at the two together, plus other ahadeeth, such as the ones of the mi3raaj, we see that the Prophet :saws: saw some of the people (including Muslims) being punished for serious sins, as it is known that some Muslims who did not commit shirk, will be punished for a while for certain of their sins, before being admitted into jannah. It may be that they didn't ask for forgiveness, Allah knows best. And while Allah will never break His promise, all forgiveness is from His Mercy and Kindness to us, and we hope and pray for it.

Hence, the main concern for every Muslim is to learn how to keep self from committing shirk. Everything ELSE pales in significance.

Of course, shirk is the biggest sin one can commit, but we must try our best to refrain from whatever other sins we can, as some other ones such as backbiting as one example, do have severe punishments, even for Muslims who don't commit shirk. How easy or not that may be to refrain from is a different matter, which I won't go into here.

Islam is the religion of ease.

Indeed it is. It is also a balance, and we are a middle nation. My point here, is simply to say, that we need to achieve a balance, neither going one way nor the other. Our aim shouldn't be to do the bare minimum to get by (or what we think will get us into jannah), nor trying to overburden ourselves with trying to follow lots of new things all at once.

Understanding the need for rules IS a pre-requisite.

As an example, let's say that a new Muslim doesn't understand the reason why they need to refrain from eating Pork (other than Allah is telling them). He doesn't understand why, but because Allah is telling him, he obeys. According to the above logic, he shold not obey, until he knows exactly why it was forbidden. Or, according to that, one who does not understand why, is excused from following. Neither of these two scenarios are correct.

Of course, the more one understands, the better. But if one does not understand the need for a particular rule, there is absolutely nothing to preclude one from following it, while one learns about the possible reasons and benefits of that rule.

There are many rules in the Qur'an. Let us not let people think that Islam is a religion devoid of rules. It is not all rules like Judaism, and not all love devoid of rules, like the Christians. It is a middle way, a balance.

The verses that I quoted from Sura Baqarah inform us about what it takes to prosper in the Aakhirah. Look at them again. Nothing is said about rules.

Those verses do not constitute the entirety of the Qur'an. If we look at the whole Qur'an, we will see that it does contain rules that we have to follow, and as I said in the quote above, we have been shown the middle way. I'm not saying it is all rules, but that there are rules that we have to follow in it.

Also, as an example, if we take a look at the first 11 ayaat of Surah al-Mu'minoon (surah 23), we will see that it gives a list of things that successful believers do, believers who inherit Paradise, which, apart from salaat and zakaat, is different and expanded from the one in Surah al-Baqarah. The list in Surah Ma'aarij, Surah 70 verses 22-34 is similar to the one in Surah al-Mu'minoon, while Surah al-Ahzaab, 30:35 includes fasting while the other ones don't. This can be dependant on the circumstances/occasions and time periods in which they were revealed. For example, fasting was made compulsory (2:183) after the revelation of those verses you quoted at the beginning of Surah al-Baqarah, so one cannot say that those verses by themselves summarise what one needs to succeed in the aakhirah. That is why we need to look at the picture as a whole, not isolated parts of it, and we need to take a balanced look at things, in their context, and that's really the point I have wanted to make here.

Anyhow, apologies if this has derailed the thread, as it's not to do with what the OP is asking, so will let the topic continue and exit here.

With peace and :sl:

[Darth Ultor]

There are several of these kind of condtradictions . Wine , for instance

Leviticus 10:9 . Do not drink wine nor strong drink

Way to not post the whole thing.

Leviticus 10:9: Do not drink wine nor strong drink, you, nor your sons with you, when you go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest you die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations

[Predator]

Way to not post the whole thing.

No I didnt miss anything , you dont read your bible properly

In another verse we read:

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)

No comments! Very clear verse concerning what wine really is, and what it cause to human being.

In the same book we read:

For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. (Proverbs 4: 17)

Here we have another description of wine, which is violent.


In Isaiah we read:

But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)

Here we have a detailed description of what damages and errors can occur through wine. We are told by “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) that the Priests and the Prophets erred, in other words wine brings “the incorrect” and the “error”, for example bible testify some “errors” from some prophets did through the wine:

The error of Prophet Noah:

20. And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
21. And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was naked within his tent.
22. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23. And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. ( Genesis 9 :20-25)

The error of Prophet Lot:

31. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37. And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38. And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day. (Genesis 19: 31-38)


In The book of Joel we read:

Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth. (Joel 1:5)

Another clear prohibition of wine by “God” (Jesus according to Christians) calling the one who drinks wine “drunkard” and “for it is cut off from your mouth” which means that wine is forbidden.

Interesting is also the comparison that “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) use in order to describe what wine is equal with:

wh0redom and wine and new wine take away the heart. ( Hosea 4:11)

In other words wine has the same results with prostitution! And they are equal.

In the Gospel of Luke, we read about the John the Baptist:

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (Luke 1:15)

John the Baptist is described as an abstainer from wine and for that reason is great in the sight of the Lord.


As we noticed above from the biblical passages, it is quite clear that wine cause errors, and that “God” ( Jesus according to Christians) prohibited, condemn and many times curse it. Also it is prohibited “for ever throughout the generations” as mention in Leviticus 10:9.

[Karimah]

Thanks for sharing all this information. My take is that since its not mentioned in the Qur'an then you don't have to do it.

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

Thanks for sharing all this information. My take is that since its not mentioned in the Qur'an then you don't have to do it.

O you who believe! Obey God and His Messenger, and do not turn away from him. (al-Anfal, 8.20)

[MustafaMc]

Thanks for sharing all this information. My take is that since its not mentioned in the Qur'an then you don't have to do it.

Sister Muslim Woman is correct in quoting the Quran in that one obeys Allah (swt) by following the example, or Sunnah, of the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) (saaws). There is more to Islam than just the Quran and more than just faith. There are some who call themselves Muslim, yet they reject hadith. I think you will find very few on this forum with that viewpoint.

Therefore, it is better for a man to become circumscised upon converting to Islam, but there are allowances if he feels that is too much for him. It is better in my opinion to pray with the prepuce intact than to not pray with it abscised.