Does beard length matter?

[Darth Ultor]

I notice that when I see many Arab Muslims in New York City or in other countries, the men don't wear their beards (if they have) so long. Same seems to apply to Turks and African Muslims. The only ones I see with long beards are from South Asia. It may be a cultural thing but I don't like to stereotype. I tend to think that it's a personal preference how long a man wears his beard just like it's a preference to a woman how she covers up. But is there a law in Islam about not trimming your beard?

[ayesha.ansari]

First of all i want to share this for every Muslim here in this forum that do not hesitate or feeling shy to answer any type of complicated question because these is no shy in Islam, every type of solution is available for you. As far concern of your question men and women in Islam compulsory need to remove hairs from some parts of body. Beards on neck and face are not allowed to remove by men.

[Tawangar]

I notice that when I see many Arab Muslims in New York City or in other countries, the men don't wear their beards (if they have) so long. Same seems to apply to Turks and African Muslims. The only ones I see with long beards are from South Asia. It may be a cultural thing but I don't like to stereotype. I tend to think that it's a personal preference how long a man wears his beard just like it's a preference to a woman how she covers up. But is there a law in Islam about not trimming your beard?

:sl:
Beard length matters and it is not a South Asian issue.
A man can keep a beard as long as he wishes once it crosses a fistful. This is what is known from the Salaf.

[Hamza Asadullah]

I notice that when I see many Arab Muslims in New York City or in other countries, the men don't wear their beards (if they have) so long. Same seems to apply to Turks and African Muslims. The only ones I see with long beards are from South Asia. It may be a cultural thing but I don't like to stereotype. I tend to think that it's a personal preference how long a man wears his beard just like it's a preference to a woman how she covers up. But is there a law in Islam about not trimming your beard?

Greetings,

All the Prophets (Peace be upon them all) had beards. Beards are a part of the natural fitrah (inclination) of man. It is also one of the most emphasised Sunnah's of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). The majority opinion of the four madhabs (methodologies) is that the beard is compulsory (wajib) for men to grow if they are able to.

So a man should grow the beard for the intention of fulfilling a great Sunnah and pleasing Allah and also being different from the non believers as a Muslim is distinguished by him having a full beard and trimmed moustache. However some people do it in stages, like they grow a couple of inches first and then gradually grow it longer, or some people trim it and later on grow it longer etc. But the Sunnah according to the majority opinion of Scholars is to grow it to a minimum of a fistful length. There are also others that are not able to grow their beards long due to a lack of hair growth in that region. They will be rewarded accordingly inshallah.

In the time of the Prophet (Peace be upon him) a Sahaba was sitting there who really wanted to grow the beardbut he did not have much growth of hair on his face. He only had a couple of strands coming out. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) laughed when he looked at him. The Sahaba enquired as from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) as to why he was laughing. The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said that he can see an angel dangling on one of his hairs on his face. This shows that no matter how much hair grows on ones face one should try their best to grow whatever hair they can on their face as it will still please Allah as much as a person who has a full beard on his face.

So everything depends on sincerety and intention as a man with a trimmed smaller beard may have better intentions and more sincerety than a man with a fuller beard. So whatever one does then one should do so with the best of intentions and sincerety. So a person cannot be judged as being close to Allah just by him having a beard.

And Allah knows best in all matters

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[Live2Learn90]

Assalamu alykum.

if my wife does not like beards.. to the point where she cant feel comfortable looking at my face, is it permissible to trim it?

[Abz2000]

i'll crash in to give the unpopular take on this,
the Prophet pbuh gave this as an advice to his followers so that they are different and have a unique identity from the others.
he mentioned that first before saying grow your beards and trim your moustaches,
this indicates that it was a solution to the problem, i quote the hadith along with another:

Narrated Nafi': "Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, 'Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short.'
Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 780)"


Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Jews and the Christians do not dye (their grey hair), so you shall do the opposite of what they do (i.e. dye your grey hair and beards).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 668)"

the closest companions of the Prophet (pbuh) usually understood the Prophet pbuh best, and made ijtihad accordingly.
it is on record that Caliph 'Umar (ra) had a long moustache that he would twirl when he got angry or agitated.

some Muslims, like myself tend to grow a trimmed beard, and it doesn't stop people from passing by me and greeting me with peace and shaking my hand.

some companions have taken this literally as can be seen from the first hadith mentioning Ibn 'Umar ('Caliph 'Umar's son).
who was very strict in following by the letter, other companions did however look at the context as can be seen from the march to banu Quraydhah and the command to not pray 'Asr until they reached Quraydhah,
some took it literally and didnt pray, some said that the Prophet (pbuh) was emphasizing the urgency and the need to make haste,
the prophet pbuh disapproved of none.

some companions were very strict in following the letter to the command as can be seen from the frustration of ibn abbas at hajj:

Ibn `Abbas (ra) said: "Stones are about to rain down upon you from the sky: I say to you: "Allah's Messenger said..." and you reply: "But Abu Bakr and `Umar said...?"
Ibn `Abbas (ra) repudiated those who, when they were informed that the Prophet had pronounced upon a matter, objected that Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq and `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with them both) 2 had said something different, thus, in effect, preferring the opinions of these two pious Companions over the Revelation of Allah.
though we know that the closest companions followed the spirit of the teachings more than the others.

there is a continuing debate on spirit vs letter in every country regarding law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_...rit_of_the_law

And Allah knows best.

[Abz2000]

Imam Malik used to grow his moustache, only cutting off its edges, and would let it grow long from the two sides. He said that he was following the way of Umar ibn al-Khattab, who was known to twist his moustache when any matter concerned him. No one at his time knew the Sunna of Umar ibn al-Khattab more than Imam Malik.


It is also narrated by at-Tabarani from ‘Aamir bin Abdallah bin al-Zubayr that: “Amir al-Mu’mineen Umar ibn al-Khattab, if he got angry, would twist his moustache and blow.” The scholars said: it means that he twisted the “sabbalayn,” the two sides of the moustache. And no one knew the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah, salla Allahu alayhi wa Alihi wa sallam, than the four caliphs, may Allah be pleased with them all.


And yet, people who came from other parts of the Muslim world and did not see the scholars of the salaf in Madina as Malik did, nor understand the proper meaning of the words of the hadiths, began to shave off their moustaches completely. Imam Malik about the shaving off of the moustache: “This is a bid’a (innovation) that has appeared among the people.”

[Muhammad]

:sl: akhee Abz2000,

I notice there was a discussion about the beard in another thread not too long ago and that you raised the same point there which was responded to:
http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...ml#post1463329

I was slightly confused about what you said regarding the spirit and letter of the teachings - I could not see how the hadeeth you quoted were supportive of following the spirit above the letter, and how it related to the issue of the beard. In any case, we must be careful about how we define the 'spirit' of the teachings because this is a concept that is (mis)used to justify many actions that go against Islamic teachings, such as removal of Hijab with the reason that as long as 'modesty' is maintained, Hijab in unnecessary. This goes to show the importance of having knowledge and understanding of an issue and not relying upon personal opinions and interpretations.

May Allaah (swt) guide us to what is beneficial and correct, Aameen.

[Abz2000]

other companions did however look at the context as can be seen from the march to banu Quraydhah and the command to not pray 'Asr until they reached Quraydhah,
some took it literally and didnt pray, some said that the Prophet (pbuh) was emphasizing the urgency and the need to make haste,
the prophet pbuh disapproved of none.

this hadith was meant to be in context to letter vs spirit

Imam Malik used to grow his moustache, only cutting off its edges, and would let it grow long from the two sides. He said that he was following the way of Umar ibn al-Khattab, who was known to twist his moustache when any matter concerned him. No one at his time knew the Sunna of Umar ibn al-Khattab more than Imam Malik.

and this was to show that the caliph himself (ra) used to grow the moustache long on both sides, a concept which is frowned upon by many as going against the teachings of the prophet pbuh.

and you are correct brother in the statement that letter vs spirit is often taken out of context and misused.
something the governments around the world use to twist laws in order to abuse them and this is obviously wrong,
however this is not a question of of twisting but a presentation of the facts as recorded.

the Prophet pbuh is nowhere recorded to have specified the length of the beard but did advise his followers to grow them, and he (pbuh) is recorded to have kept his own around a fist length. that's all

[Hamza Asadullah]

i'll crash in to give the unpopular take on this,
the Prophet pbuh gave this as an advice to his followers so that they are different and have a unique identity from the others.
he mentioned that first before saying grow your beards and trim your moustaches,
this indicates that it was a solution to the problem, i quote the hadith along with another:

Narrated Nafi': "Ibn Umar said, The Prophet said, 'Do the opposite of what the pagans do. Keep the beards and cut the moustaches short.'
Whenever Ibn 'Umar performed the Hajj or 'Umra, he used to hold his beard with his hand and cut whatever moustaches. Ibn Umar used to cut his moustache so short that the whiteness of his skin (above the upper lip) was visible, and he used to cut (the hair) between his moustaches and his beard. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Dress, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 780)"


Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, 'The Jews and the Christians do not dye (their grey hair), so you shall do the opposite of what they do (i.e. dye your grey hair and beards).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 668)"

the closest companions of the Prophet (pbuh) usually understood the Prophet pbuh best, and made ijtihad accordingly.
it is on record that Caliph 'Umar (ra) had a long moustache that he would twirl when he got angry or agitated.

some Muslims, like myself tend to grow a trimmed beard, and it doesn't stop people from passing by me and greeting me with peace and shaking my hand.

some companions have taken this literally as can be seen from the first hadith mentioning Ibn 'Umar ('Caliph 'Umar's son).
who was very strict in following by the letter, other companions did however look at the context as can be seen from the march to banu Quraydhah and the command to not pray 'Asr until they reached Quraydhah,
some took it literally and didnt pray, some said that the Prophet (pbuh) was emphasizing the urgency and the need to make haste,
the prophet pbuh disapproved of none.

some companions were very strict in following the letter to the command as can be seen from the frustration of ibn abbas at hajj:

Ibn `Abbas (ra) said: "Stones are about to rain down upon you from the sky: I say to you: "Allah's Messenger said..." and you reply: "But Abu Bakr and `Umar said...?"
Ibn `Abbas (ra) repudiated those who, when they were informed that the Prophet had pronounced upon a matter, objected that Abu Bakr As-Siddeeq and `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with them both) 2 had said something different, thus, in effect, preferring the opinions of these two pious Companions over the Revelation of Allah.
though we know that the closest companions followed the spirit of the teachings more than the others.

there is a continuing debate on spirit vs letter in every country regarding law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_...rit_of_the_law

And Allah knows best.

:sl:


My dear brother it is best to refrain from taking such a stance as this maybe a route that shaythan leads one down where one may eventually have beliefs which deviate from the truth. I heard a similar argument once by a scholar who stated that Jannah and Jahannam are not going to be rewards or punishments in the physical sense. Another saying that Dajjal is just a system and not a person and many other deviated beliefs which have all been utterly refuted by scholars.

Regarding the beard issue then it was a sunnah of every Prophet of Allah and part of the natural fitrah aswell as being a way to distinguish ourselves from the non believers. Whilst the length is not totally set in stone it is agreed upon by the majority of scholars that the minimum is a fist length because the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) had a big beard which came to his chest. He also said to let it grow and trimming it has been deemed to go against "letting it grow".

As I have already mentioned many of us grow it in stages. Some just let it grow, others slowly etc. But to fulfill the proper sunnah is to let it grow to at least a minimum of a fist length. We should also not let it grow out so that it is unkempt as Allah loves beauty and does not like it if we do not keep ourselves neat and tidy.

But as again our reward depends on our intention and sincerety. The bigger our intentions and the more sincere we are then the more we will be rewarded for any action.

And Allah knows best in all matters

[Muhammad]

and this was to show that the caliph himself (ra) used to grow the moustache long on both sides, a concept which is frowned upon by many as going against the teachings of the prophet pbuh.

But what does this prove with regards to the keeping of the beard, when we have ample narrations telling us “Leave your beards alone,” “Let your beards increase,” “Let your beards be full.” etc?

My main point is that it's not for us to look at a few of these hadeeth in isolation and understand them based on our limited understanding, rather we must refer the matter to those who have studied it in detail so we have a better chance of arriving at the correct understanding Insha'Allaah.

[Abz2000]

Originally Posted by Abz2000
and this was to show that the caliph himself (ra) used to grow the moustache long on both sides, a concept which is frowned upon by many as going against the teachings of the prophet pbuh.


But what does this prove with regards to the keeping of the beard, when we have ample narrations telling us “Leave your beards alone,” “Let your beards increase,” “Let your beards be full.” etc?

brother, it shows the people who literally take "trim your moustache" to mean that you can't grow a moustache, that that is not the case, it is about making sure it doesn't cover your lips.

and regarding the quotes: Leave your beards alone,” “Let your beards increase,” “Let your beards be full", the texts actually say grow your beards and leave the beards.
firstly, grow your beard doesn't specify the length, one can choose to follow the tradition of the Prophet pbuh and choose his length, but to set it as fard when he pbuh never did is another issue altogether.

secondly, if one took leave the beards literally, it would mean that they never trim it even to fist length.
and the one who trimmed it would be directly disobeying a command of the Prophet pbuh. so they look at the spirit, his example and derive an opinion from that that it is ok to cut it, without any intention of twisting the advice or doing something he would disapprove of in that context.

anyway, Allah knows best and the best we can do is share info, that's as far as i can relate from a direct presentation of the texts and examples.
my knowledge goes no further than that. none of what i present is a fatwa, it is only an observation of the texts. May Allah increase us in knowledge,
peace

[Muhammad]

:sl:

Please note that I am not endorsing any particular view with regards to the beard. I have not commented on what length is best. As I mentioned, the key thing I am concerned about is the methodology we use to arrive at our answer. You are presenting points based upon opinion, whereas we need to look at the detailed evidences presented by the people of knowledge to gain a correct understanding. For an example of what I mean regarding supporting opnions with evidences, you can have a look at this discussion: http://ahlalhdeeth.cc/vbe/showthread.php?t=974

anyway, Allah knows best and the best we can do is share info, that's as far as i can relate from a direct presentation of the texts and examples.
my knowledge goes no further than that. none of what i present is a fatwa, it is only an observation of the texts. May Allah increase us in knowledge,
peace

Aameen.
Wassalaamu Alaykum.

[Witness_to_it]

masha allah

[Cabdullahi]

To some sisters it does.

a veiled sister says she does not want to marry a man with a beard...its too scruffy and looks nasty.

That's like me saying i don't want to marry a sister with hijab because its nasty.

Beard length does matter to some.

[Darth Ultor]

^ I meant according to an Islamic source like a passage in the QUran or Hadith. Some have alread answered.