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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 08:42 PM
This particularly caught my attention (ya wasting my time) but it is interesting nonetheless. So how South Asians on this board classify this as? open mindedness or back home cultural baggage? Just curious.

I have found someone who values not only me and my family but also my language, my culture - everything that was previously foreign to him. PHOTO: REUTERS
I am a Pakistani-American and he is a born and bred Caucasian American. His family is Catholic, mine is Muslim.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/10...rrying-a-gora/
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Tilmeez
03-28-2012, 09:05 PM
:threadapp

As for as my opinion is concerned, brother CosmicPathos, I liked a comment there that says all aobut it.

Do we care if you marry a gora or kala? I wasted my time reading this.
I'm sure I'm not offending you nor killing this thread but this growing to be a norm these days. Catholics are still people of the book I read stories of Hindus marring Muslim girls... at the end of the day this is their choice and I least bother in matters where I can't do any thing that could matter.

I do believe in 'Open Mind' but not that open!
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Insaanah
03-28-2012, 09:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
So how South Asians on this board classify this as? open mindedness or back home cultural baggage? Just

curious.
:sl:

Although it's presented as a cultural/colour issue, that's just a side thing. The main point is that a man has been her best friend for four years, and a non-Muslim one at that. Perhaps those who consider their relationship to be an abomination do so for those reasons. He hasn't accepted Islam yet, but will convert at some point in order to be able to marry her.

Yet very little about Islam has been said the article. It's all about eating biryani and joining in cultural stuff.

I hope that if/when he converts, he does so for the right reasons.
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Alpha Dude
03-28-2012, 09:35 PM
I hope that if/when he converts, he does so for the right reasons.
I agree. The worst thing he could do (bad for both of them) is take on Islam as his religion on paper, for her sake, but not really believe or practise it.

However, all is in the hands of Allah and Allah has his ways of guiding people.
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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 09:46 PM
but would it be considered zina if they get married and produce babies (or not) and if Allah guides him 5 years later?
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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 09:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tilmeez
:threadapp

As for as my opinion is concerned, brother CosmicPathos, I liked a comment there that says all aobut it.



I'm sure I'm not offending you nor killing this thread but this growing to be a norm these days. Catholics are still people of the book I read stories of Hindus marring Muslim girls... at the end of the day this is their choice and I least bother in matters where I can't do any thing that could matter.

I do believe in 'Open Mind' but not that open!
lol. But I am just asking if a Muslim community can accept such blasphemies? Sure its one's private life but what does Islam says about communcal rights trumping individual rights in issues such as this? Is a marriage of a Muslim female to a non-Muslim person (whatever his race!) is acceptable? :S

I've read his comment (the guy's) and he probably would say shahaada but also believes that all religions teach the same message: that of kindness and of humanity. Can we Muslims hold such beliefs? :S

btw, thanks for that big approval stamp. I was hurt when you deleted that Pinky Pinky Stinky video.
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Sunnie Ameena
03-28-2012, 09:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by [I
I am a Pakistani-American and he is a born and bred Caucasian American. His family is Catholic, mine is Muslim.


[/I]
I am comfused. The gender says male, and the sentence refers to a male. Which one is the female? I am not trying to be funny, really I just want to know. Sorry if I am not asking this question right.
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'Abd-al Latif
03-28-2012, 10:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
lol. But I am just asking if a Muslim community can accept such blasphemies? Sure its one's private life but what does Islam says about communcal rights trumping individual rights in issues such as this? Is a marriage of a Muslim female to a non-Muslim person (whatever his race!) is acceptable? :S

I've read his comment (the guy's) and he probably would say shahaada but also believes that all religions teach the same message: that of kindness and of humanity. Can we Muslims hold such beliefs? :S

btw, thanks for that big approval stamp. I was hurt when you deleted that Pinky Pinky Stinky video. Man come on.
Accept it? Certainly not. But how we deal with this rejection is another matter. And what do you mean communal rights trumping over individual rights?
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CosmicPathos
03-28-2012, 10:12 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
Accept it? Certainly not. But how we deal with this rejection is another matter. And what do you mean communal rights trumping over individual rights?
I've heard and read at many places that Islam gives preferences to community's right over individual rights. Is that wrong?
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GuestFellow
03-28-2012, 10:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnie Ameena
I am comfused. The gender says male, and the sentence refers to a male. Which one is the female? I am not trying to be funny, really I just want to know. Sorry if I am not asking this question right.
Salaam,

I'm confused too. No idea who is marrying what.

Anyway, it is best to marry a Muslim and if you are planning to marry a non-Muslim, just make sure they will convert, otherwise...don't do it.
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'Abd-al Latif
03-28-2012, 11:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
I've heard and read at many places that Islam gives preferences to community's right over individual rights. Is that wrong?
Can you bring show me any proof from the Qur'an and/or Sunnah?
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CosmicPathos
03-29-2012, 12:35 AM
in times of plague, Prophet pbuh forbade ppl to leave the city of epidemic and to go to other cities, even if they were not infected. That is one such evidence.

Polygamy. Zakat etc. All those aspects.
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Roasted Cashew
03-29-2012, 12:38 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sunnie Ameena
I am comfused. The gender says male, and the sentence refers to a male. Which one is the female? I am not trying to be funny, really I just want to know. Sorry if I am not asking this question right.
The Pakistani Muslim girl is a female and the American Catholic is male.
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Roasted Cashew
03-29-2012, 12:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
Is a marriage of a Muslim female to a non-Muslim person (whatever his race!) is acceptable? :S
Nop, not acceptable if he doesn't convert before the marriage.
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Roasted Cashew
03-29-2012, 12:44 AM
Quote from the original article: "Most of all, through all the changes and things to adjust to, he is a man who has no qualms converting to Islam because he knows I would never marry him otherwise."

I would like to know are such conversions accepted in Islam in which the main drive or reason for that conversion is to to marry a Muslim spouse instead of love for the Prophet or the deen itself.
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TrueStranger
03-29-2012, 01:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
Quote from the original article: "Most of all, through all the changes and things to adjust to, he is a man who has no qualms converting to Islam because he knows I would never marry him otherwise."

I would like to know are such conversions accepted in Islam in which the main drive or reason for that conversion is to to marry a Muslim spouse instead of love for the Prophet or the deen itself.
I think it's acceptable. umm Sulaym accepted Abu Talhah on the condition that he accepts Islam, and the mahr was his conversion to Islam. The problem today is that even if the guy converts, most culturally influenced parents will reject him because of his racial or cultural background.

When it was known that Umm Sulaym had become a widow, one man, Zayd ibn Sahl, known as Abu Talhah, resolved to become engaged to her before anyone else did.

He was rather confident that Umm Sulaym would not pass him over for another. He was after all a strong and virile person who was quite rich and who possessed an imposing house that was much admired. He was an accomplished horseman and a skilful archer and, moreover, he belonged to the same clan as Umm Sulaym, the Banu Najjar.

Abu Talhah proceeded to Umm Sulaym's house. On the way he recalled that she had been influenced by the preaching of Musab ibn Umayr and had become a Muslim.

"So what?" he said to himself. "Was not her husband who died a firm adherent of the old religion and was he not opposed to Muhammad and his mission?"

Abu Talhah reached Umm Sulaym's house. He asked and was given permission to enter. Her son Anas was present. Abu Talhah explained why he had come and asked for her hand in marriage.

"A man like you, Abu Talhah ," she said, "is not (easily) turned away. But I shall never marry you while you are a kafir, an unbeliever."

Abu Talhah thought she was trying to put him off and that perhaps she had already preferred someone wealthier and more influential. He said to her:

"What is it that really prevents you from accepting me, Umm Sulaym? Is it the yellow and the white metals (gold and silver)?"

"Gold and silver?" she asked somewhat taken aback and in a slightly censuring tone. "Yes," he said. "I swear to you, Abu Talhah, and I swear to Allah and His Messenger that if you accept Islam, I shall be pleased to accept you as a husband, without any gold or silver. I shall consider your acceptance of Islam as my mahr."

Abu Talhah understood well the implications of her words. His mind turned to the idol he had made from wood and on which he lavished great attention in the same way that important men of his tribe venerated and cared for their personal idols.

The opportunity was right for Umm Sulaym to stress the futility of such idol worship and she went on: "Don't you know Abu Talhah, that the god you worship besides Allah grew from the earth?" .."That's true," he said.

"Don't you feel stupid while worshipping part of a tree while you use the rest of it for fuel to bake bread or warm yourself? (If you should give up these foolish beliefs and practices) and become a Muslim, Abu Talhah, I shall be pleased to accept you as a husband and I would not want from you any sadaqah apart from your acceptance of Islam."

"Who shall instruct me in Islam?" asked Abu Talhah. "I shall," Umm Sulaym replied. "How?"

"Utter the declaration of truth and testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Then go to your house, destroy your idol and throw it away."

Abu Talhah left and reflected deeply on what Umm Sulaym had said. He came back to her beaming with happiness.

"I have taken your advice to heart. I declare that there is no god but Allah and I declare that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah."

Umm Sulaym and Abu Talhah were married. Anas, her son, was pleased and the Muslims would say: "We have never yet heard of a mahr that was more valuable and precious than that of Umm Sulaym for she made Islam her mahr."


http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...ophet-Muhammed
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CosmicPathos
03-29-2012, 01:44 AM
^^ it is clear that Abu Talha didnt convert just to marry the woman. He converted because she was able to convince him of his illogical beliefs in idols. you just didnt bold that part because it did not fit with what you wanted to say.

Did you note that nowhere did Abu Talha say "all religions essentially teach the same message of humanity and peace, and I am cool with all religions." While that is something this "Muslim" guy wrote about his beliefs. If I am to go with that logic then really, pantheistic paganism is the MOST peaceful religion. You worship and love nature and find serenity in it. No hellfire, no torment, no judgment.

and everyone is culturally influenced, even you are.
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TrueStranger
03-29-2012, 01:48 AM
It's also clear that she told him that "I swear to Allah and His Messenger that if you accept Islam, I shall be pleased to accept you as a husband, without any gold or silver. I shall consider your acceptance of Islam as my mahr." This woman also told Mr.C, that she would not marry him unless he converts to Islam.

Whatever the reason was, at the end of the day he became a Muslim who believes that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. Allah guides people at the end of the day and they all come to Islam in different ways and forms.

You don't know me, so keep your pre-conceived notions of me off this board.
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CosmicPathos
03-29-2012, 01:56 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by TrueStranger
Whatever the reason was, at the end of the day he became a Muslim who believes that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.
and along with that he believes all religions are truths. That negates Tawheed Uloohya and all other tawheeds.

And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter. (Quran, 3:85).
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TrueStranger
03-29-2012, 02:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos

Did you note that nowhere did Abu Talha say "all religions essentially teach the same message of humanity and peace, and I am cool with all religions." While that is something this "Muslim" guy wrote about his beliefs. I
I don't know Mr.C enough to argue for him or against him. But he never said all religions are truth. Those are your words.

What he stated is that all religions teach the same message when it comes to humanity and peace. That is not necessarily false, especially, when you consider major religions of the world. Christianity and Judaism -The people of the book.

Anyways, to each his own. The guy is a regular customer at the dinner table, might as well convert him to Islam. ;D
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CosmicPathos
03-29-2012, 03:13 AM
These are not my words. I have quoted them from his comment on the article.

You are deluded when you think xtianity and judaism teach same message when it comes to peace and humanity. xtianity teaches that a life of an innocent Jesus can be taken for the sin of Adam. The God of Judaism teaches them to kill babies. You really need to read the Tanakh.
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TrueStranger
03-29-2012, 04:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
These are not my words. I have quoted them from his comment on the article.

You are deluded when you think xtianity and judaism teach same message when it comes to peace and humanity. xtianity teaches that a life of an innocent Jesus can be taken for the sin of Adam. The God of Judaism teaches them to kill babies. You really need to read the Tanakh.

As far as I know C Only posted once, and he never said "All religions are the truth". So much for "quoting"

C 12 hours ago

I have found these comments both encouraging and interesting. It is one thing for me to be lucky enough to be marrying this wonderful woman, but to hear the words of encouragement here is amazing. Saira and I have had many conversations in regards to religion, culture and family and we are both lucky enough to have families that encourage our happiness regardless of how we choose to do so. We have also had talks about the role that conversion will play in this process and I understand and am willing to accept this. This is done without coercion or force, but out of genuine wanting to have a deeper understanding.

If you truly think about it, all religions have the same essential basis of doing good towards others, whether that be Catholicism, Islam, or any other faith. I live my life in this manner and Inshallah, that will be enough.

oh, and @Khurram Mansoor: I can tell you this is very much real, and I don’t know if your disbelief is due to her trying to protect my identity (which is very common in journalism), but I am happier than I’ve ever been to be marrying my best friend, and that is more than enough for me.
Barking up the wrong tree. Take your childish insult with you as well. There is no one more deluded than you on this board.
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Dagless
03-29-2012, 10:38 AM

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Muhaba
03-29-2012, 01:06 PM
there is nothing wrong with intercultural marriages as long as both parties understand and respect each other and accept anyn differences they have. understanding theother's culture is a necessary thing so you won't have conflicts later.

it's also important that convert is sincere in his/her conversion as that will later affect the marriage. A christian man more inclined to christianity might cause problems for his wife in matters of deen. A christian women inclined toward her religion will affect her children's faith.

it's also important that the born-muslim learns his/her religion and practices it well or else he/she will affect the convert muslim's religion and if someconvert goes far from true Islam becuase of born-muslims, the born-muslim will be responsible.

Also, if the born muslim is not good toward the convert muslim and that affects the converts faith then too the born-muslim will be asked about it.
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Sunnie Ameena
03-29-2012, 03:28 PM
Thank you Roasted Cashew for explaining to me who was male and who was female. Sunnie Ameena
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Who Am I?
03-29-2012, 03:30 PM
:sl:

As a white guy who loves brown women and plans to marry one soon, I approve of this message... ;D
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Revert 2010
04-05-2012, 08:26 PM
Who Im I that is really funny, also being a "gora" I second your motion lol.:D
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Who Am I?
04-05-2012, 11:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Revert 2010
Who Im I that is really funny, also being a "gora" I second your motion lol.:D
Awesome. Secret handshake!
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