:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
The Quran was completed during the life of Prophet Muhammad. If Allah or Muhammad intended Hadith to be a supplementary book to accompany Quran, wouldn't Prophet Muhammad have made his followers write down and memorize his sayings and actions like he did Quran? Why did a guy named Bukhari have to come 300 years later to complete the religion? Quran says follow Allah and his messenger... Not Allah and Bukhari. Peace!
Firstly, you profess to be a Muslim, and you also claim:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
I personally have too much love and respect for Prophet Muhammad
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
Many Sunni Muslims are under the impression that Quranist Muslims don't have love for the Prophet. Or that we don't respect him or obey him. This is not true.
so please show the due respect by adding :saws: after the Prophets name. Saying Muhammad on it's own is how we are accustomed to our non-Muslim members speaking, but even some of them address him with the due respect and write pbuh (peace be upon him) after his name:
Indeed Allah and His angels shower blessings on the Prophet. O ye who believe! Ask blessings on him and salute him with a worthy salutation. (33:58)
Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [Allah to grant him] peace. (alternative translation of same ayah)
On the same note, the Muslims here have greeted you with assalaamu alaikum or better than it. For one who professes to follow the Qur'an, it is interesting that this ayah isn't being followed:
And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet [in return] with one better than it or [at least] return it [in a like manner]. Indeed, Allah takes careful account of all things. (4:86)
Back to the discussion, your main point seems to hinge on Bukhari allegedly completing the deen 300 years later, and that those who follow the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: as recorded in the hadeeth, are actually following Bukhari. These are very serious allegations to make yourself, and serious allegations to make about someone else. However, they are all pretty shallow and easily addressed, but we will leave that for later. We must first sort out the fundamentals. You also made a number of the most vile accusations (that we have only ever seen haters of Islam and evangelists make here) about the beliefs of those who follow the sunnah of the Prophet :saws: concerning the Prophet. This is very disturbing. Most Muslims hate to see such words in the same sentence, but it seems of no bother to you. Please do not repeat such words here.
Back to the discussion. First we must establish that the sunnah is from Allah, and that the Qur'an says so, and tells us to follow it.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
And as for all the details you speak of which are part of Sunni Islam but not mentioned in Quran... If it's not in Quran, it's not important to our salvation.
Allah didn't think so. As I quoted, He said:
And We did not make the qiblah which you used to face except that We might make evident who would follow the Messenger from who would turn back on his heels. And indeed, it is difficult except for those whom Allah has guided. (2:143, part)
Take note. Not following the Messenger :saws: on a command which wasn't in the Qur'an, classed as not following the Messenger, and turning back on one's heels, and being misguided. That is very serious indeed. Condemnation from Allah not on one level, but on three levels. There can be nothing more serious than that. Allah had given the Prophet :saws: the command, but some people disobeyed it. So, in reality, they disobeyed Allah, from whom the command originated. And that is exactly what hadeeth rejectors are doing now, not following the Prophets commands which aren't in the Qur'an, even though Allah also says:
"Nor does he speak of (his own) desire." (53:3), asserting that nothing the Prophet :saws: utters, is of his own desire or wish.
"It is only an Inspiration that is inspired." (53:4) i.e. he only conveys to the people what he was commanded to convey, in its entirety without additions or deletions. (Tafseer ibn Katheer)
The Arabic word used here, yantiqu, means specifically to speak. There is a difference of opinion as to whether these verses refer just to the Qur'an, or to everything the Prophet :saws: spoke. Even if they refer to the Qur'an, we know that Prophet :saws: did not just recite Qur'anic ayaat, but spoke other than that in matters of deen too, gave commands, explanations etc, the hikmah mentioned later in the post, as ordered and taught to Him by Allah, Glorified and Exalted be He.
Quran says follow Allah and his messenger
The Qur'an also says, on many many occasions,
obey Allah and obey the messenger.
You will agree with me that not one word or one letter of the Qur'an is from the Prophet :saws: and that all of it is from Allah. To obey the Prophet, you need to obey those words he spoke himself, those actions he did, those explanations he gave, even if they are not in the Qur'an, as outlined above, along with the Qur'an. On some occasions the Qur'an tells us to obey the messenger :saws: without mentioning Allah, because if you obey the messenger then by default you obey the one who taught and ordered him. But if you disobey him, even if by disregarding what he said outside of the Qur'an, then by default you disobey the One Who taught him:
And establish prayer and give zakah and obey the Messenger - that you may receive mercy. (24:56)
He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian. (4:80)
In this verse, Allah states clearly that obedience to the Messenger :saws:is nothing less than obedience to Allah. It proves that any command from the Prophet :saws: actually originated with Allah. Most of those commands are recorded in the hadeeth.
Also, some verses tell us that obedience to the Prophet :saws: does not mean just with what he came with of the Qur'an, and that obedience to him has sources external to the Qur'an, that must be followed as well:
And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion. (4:61)
Come to what Allah has revealed,
and to the Messenger. In other words, following only the Qur'an is not enough. Following only the prophets commands mentioned in the Qur'an is not enough. You must obey his commands that are not in the Qur'an too (which is the majority of them), those that are recorded in the hadeeth.
The passage continues:
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
But no, by your Lord, they will not believe, until they make you [O Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with full submission. (4:64-65)
Indeed, verse 65 above tells us that accepting the Prophet's rulings and decisions is part of our very faith, part of our imaan. It is noticeable that Allah begins the verse by swearing by the Lord of the Prophet, and this is much more greater and serious than any of the other types of swearing that Allah has used in the Qur'an, such as the stars, the sky, the dawn, the morning light etc. And it is after this great swearing that Allah informs the believers that it is necessary for them to completely accept the authority of the Prophet :saws:.
"With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance
that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect. " (16:44)
That explanation of the Qur'an by the Prophet (peace be upon him) is recorded in the hadeeth. So where the command to pray is given, one will not find details of how many units for each prayer in the Qur'an. That is explained by the Prophet (peace be upon him) as taught by Allah, and the explanation preserved in the hadeeth.
This duty of the Prophet (peace be upon him) has been stated in 16:43-44 especially to show the wisdom of sending a man as a Messenger, for, otherwise the Book could have been sent through the angels or could have been printed and sent directly to each human. But in this way, that purpose for which Allah in His Wisdom and Bounty and Providence designed to send the Book could not have been served. For, that purpose demanded that the Book should be brought by a perfect man, who should present it piece by piece, explain its meaning, remove any difficulties and doubts, answer objections, and should guide those who believed in it in every aspect of life and set before them his own excellent pattern of life. Then he should train them individually and collectively on the principles of the Book; so as to make them a model society for the rest of mankind.
16:44 shows that the view that the Book should be accepted without any exposition of it from the Prophet (peace be upon him) and using one's own independent reasoning instead, cannot be correct if Allah says that the Prophet is the teacher and explainer of the book.
Allah tells us that the Prophet :saws: is the example for us to follow:
Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. (33:21)
See this verse also:
O you who believe, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result. (4:59)
The companions of the Prophet and later scholars have understood "refer it to Allah", to mean, "refer it to the book of Allah." And referring the matter to the Messenger of Allah, means to refer it directly to him in his lifetime, and to his sunnah (as recorded in the hadeeth) after his death. Note that the two, the book of Allah, and the sunnah of His Messenger :saws:, are placed together here, and the verse does not say "refer it to Allah and then to the Messenger", nor does it say, "refer it to Allah, and if you do not find the answer there, then refer it to the Messenger". The two (Qur'an and sunnah) come together, hand in hand.
There are many such verses where Allah commands obedience to Himself and His prophet , and many of those begin, "O you who believe". This means that the command is not just restricted to the Prophet's lifetime, or to his companions. Instead, the command is addressed to everyone who claims to be a believer - then, now, and always.
There are a number of verses quoted in one of the posts above purporting to support the Qur'anist position. Some have been stated again after already being responded to:
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[6:114] "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this book sufficiently detailed?" Those to whom We have given the book know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
Those who follow the Qur'an and sunnah have no doubts whatsoever about the Qur'an, and in fact are able to follow it more.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[6:115] The word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Nobody has changed his words.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[16:116] You shall not invent lies about God by attributing lies with your tongues, saying: "This is lawful and that is forbidden." Those who invent lies about God will not succeed.
Indeed they shall not. If the Prophet :saws: gave commands out side of the Qur'an pertaining to the lawful and unlawful, you think he :saws: invented lies?
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[16:89] The day We send to every nation a witness against them from themselves, and We have brought you as a witness against these. We have sent down to you the book as a clarification for all things, a guide, mercy and good tidings for those who have peacefully surrendered.
I have already mentioned above, how the Qur'an points the believer in the right direction, either by it's being made clear in the book, either by clear text, undetailed statement, or indication.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Indeed people have, and some people ignore those parts which tell us to obey the Prophet :saw: and to obey those commands he gives outside of the Qur'an too, which originate with Allah.
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[13:40] If We show you some of what We promise them or if We let you pass away, for you is only to deliver, while for Us is the reckoning.
?
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
[55:1-2] The Gracious: Has taught the Quran
He also taught something else along with it:
Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book
and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know. (2:151)
"The Messenger also takes them away from the darkness (of disbelief) to the light (of faith) and teaches them the Book, the Qur'an, and the Hikmah (i.e., the wisdom), which is his Sunnah. He also teaches them what they knew not." (Tafseer ibn Katheer 2:151)
And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book
and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah (2:231 part)
Certainly did Allah confer [great] favor upon the believers when He sent among them a Messenger from themselves, reciting to them His verses and purifying them and
teaching them the Book and wisdom, although they had been before in manifest error. (3:164)
And
Allah has revealed to you the Book and wisdom and has taught you that which you did not know. (4:113)
It is clear here that Allah has taught and revealed to us not just one thing, but two separate things that go together. The Arabic words used are kitaab (book) and hikmah (literal meaning is wisdom). Nowhere in the Qur'an has the word Hikmah been used for the Qur'an, or the word kitaab used for the hikmah, and the particle "and" is placed between them, which shows us they are two distinct entities. So, what else did Allah reveal to the Prophet :saws: apart from the Book? It can only be the sunnah (outside of the Qur'an as proven). It is part of the blessing on the believers that the Prophet :saws: taught them both the book (Qur'an) and the hikmah (sunnah).
format_quote Originally Posted by
Aamer
45:6] These are God's revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which hadith, after God and his revelations do they believe?
This is a favourite tactic of hadeeth rejectors, to leave the word hadith in it's Arabic form in the English translation. Why leave only that word in the Arabic, why not any other word? It shows a lack of knowledge of Arabic, for the word hadeeth as used in the Qur'an, generally has different meanings depending on the context, in some places it means a fact, a statement, a conversation etc. However, if hadeeth rejectors want to play word games like this, then they must accept this wherever it occurs. So, please note:
فَذَرْنِى وَمَن يُكَذِّبُ بِهَـذَا الْحَدِيثِ سَنَسْتَدْرِجُهُمْ مِّنْ حَيْثُ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ
Then leave Me alone with those who reject this Hadeeth: by degrees We shall punish them from directions they perceive not. (68:44)
.....مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَى .....
..It is no invented Hadeeth.. (12:111, part)
In summary:
Allah says in the Qur'an that not following the Messenger :saws: on a command which wasn't in the Qur'an, is classed as not following the Messenger, and turning back on one's heels, and being misguided. It is also not following Allah as the command originated with Allah.
Whatever the Prophet spoke in matters of the deen (outside of the Qur'an) is inspired to him by Allah.
The Qur'an is Allahs word without a word from the Prophet, so to obey the Prophet is to obey his words, which the Qur'an isn't.
Not obeying his words is not obeying the words of the One who taught him.
In the Qur'an Allah tells the Prophet :saws: to explain the Qur'an to us, explanations which aren't in the Qur'an as it isn't the Prophets word.
Allah clearly states that He revealed the book and the wisdom. The wisdom is
not the book, so can only be the sunnah.
And Allah knows best.