This is Love- Marriage is where the story begins, not where it ends.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

Asalaam Aleikum,

I've browsed some threads here and in other forums regarding marriage and I see so much complaining on both ends (as to why they find it difficult to find a spouse etc). Complaints that come from let downs due to unrealistic expectations. Too many single people out there looking for the wrong things and the wrong reasons to marry, even though they say the opposite. Unfortunately I've read of Some people just give up the idea of marriage all together not realizing what it is they turn away from. What I see is a lack of understanding, because many people say the right things, however still have the same complaints as everyone else does, which says to me there's a lack of understanding. We have all been there at some point. For some of us the road to understanding this simple concept has been a long painful journey, and it is best if we learn from our mistakes and others' mistakes vs going through them over an over, and never fixing the root cause of the problem.

So I'm sharing this in hopes that it can help and make it easier for some to find a good spouse, and if already married, perhaps it can help someone to refocus and rid their marriage of ongoing "problems". I urge you to please take the time to read this. Married or not, it will be of some benefit to you, insha Allah. **Sisters, please pay close attention, as we are ones who usually get cought up in emotions more often than not. ;) Save yourself the drama and rollercoaster rides!**

This is love.
And so there are some who spend their whole lives seeking. Sometimes giving, sometimes taking. Sometimes chasing. But often, just waiting. They believe that love is a place that you get to: a destination at the end of a long road. And they can’t wait for that road to end at their destination. They are those hearts moved by the movement of hearts. Those hopeless romantics, the sucker for a love story, or any sincere expression of true devotion. For them, the search is almost a lifelong obsession of sorts. But, this tragic ‘quest’ can have its costs—and its’ gifts.

The path of expectations and the ‘falling in love with love’ is a painful one, but it can bring its own lessons. Lessons about the nature of love, this world, people, and one’s own heart, can pave this often painful path. Most of all, this path can bring its own lessons about the Creator of love.

Those who take this route will often reach the knowledge that the human love they seek was not the destination. Some form of that human love, can be a gift. It can be a means. But the moment you make it the End, you will fall. And you will live your whole life with the wrong focus. You will become willing to sacrifice the Goal for the sake of the means. You will give your life to reaching a ‘destination’ of worldly perfection that does not exist.

And the one who runs after a mirage, never gets there; but keeps running. And so too will you keep running, and be willing to lose sleep, cry, bleed, and sacrifice precious parts of yourself—at times, even your own dignity. But you’ll never reach what you’re looking for in this life, because what you seek isn’t a worldly destination. The type of perfection you seek cannot be found in the material world. It can only be found in God.

That image of human love that you seek is an illusion in the desert of life. So if that is what you seek, you’ll keep chasing. But no matter how close you get to a mirage, you never touch it. You don’t own an image. You can’t hold a creation of your own mind.

Yet, you will give your whole life, still, to reaching this ‘place’. You do this because in the fairy tale, that’s where the story ends. It ends at the finding, the joining, the wedding. It is found at the oneness of two souls. And everyone around you will make you think that your path ends there: at the place where you meet your soul mate, your other half—at the point in the path where you get married. Then and only then, they tell you, will you ever finally be complete. This, of course, is a lie because completion cannot be found in anything other than God.

But the lesson you’ve been taught since the time you were little—from every story, every song, every movie, every ad, every well-meaning auntie—is that you aren’t complete otherwise. And if—God forbid—you are one of the ‘outcasts’ who haven’t gotten married, or have been divorced, you are considered deficient or incomplete in some way.

The lesson you’re taught is that the story ends at the wedding, and then that’s when Jennah (paradise) begins. That’s when you’ll be saved and completed and everything that was once broken will be fixed. The only problem is, that’s not where the story ends. That’s where it begins. That’s where the building starts: the building of a life, the building of your character, the building of sabr, patience, perseverance, and sacrifice. The building of selflessness. The building of love.And the building of your path back to Him.

But if the person you marry becomes your ultimate focus in life, your struggle has just begun. Now your spouse will become your greatest test. Until you remove that person from the place in your heart that only God should be, it will keep hurting. Ironically, your spouse will become the tool for this painful extraction process, until you learn that there are places in the human heart made only by—and for—God.

Among the other lessons you may learn along this path—after a long road of loss, gain, failure, success, and so many mistakes—is that there are at least 2 types of love. There will be some people you love because of what you get from them: what they give you, the way they make you feel. This is perhaps the majority of love—which is also what makes much of love so unstable. A person’s capacity to give is inconstant and changing. Your response to what you are given is also inconstant and changing. So if you’re chasing a feeling, you’ll always be chasing. No feeling is ever constant. If love is dependent on this, it too becomes inconstant and changing. And just like everything in this world, the more you chase it, the more it will run away from you.

But, once in a while, people enter your life that you love—not for what they give you—but for what they are. The beauty you see in them is a reflection of the Creator, so you love them. Now suddenly it isn’t about what you’re getting, but rather what you can give. This is unselfish love. This second type of love is the most rare. And if it is based in, and not competing with, the love of God, it will also bring about the most joy. To love in any other way is to need, to be dependent, to have expectations—all the ingredients for misery and disappointment.

So for all those, who have spent their life seeking, know that purity of any thing is found at the Source. If it is love that you seek, seek it through God. Every other stream, not based in His love, poisons the one who drinks from it. And the drinker will continue to drink, until the poison all but kills him. He will continue to die more and more inside, until he stops and finds the pure Source of water.

Once you begin to see everything beautiful as only a reflection of God’s beauty, you will learn to love in the right way: for His sake. Everything and everyone you love with be for, through and because of Him. The foundation of such love is God. So what you hold onto will no longer be just an unstable feeling, a fleeting emotion. And what you chase will no longer be just a temporary high. What you hold, what you chase, what you love, will be God: the *only* thing stable and constant. Thereafter, everything else will be through Him. Everything you give or take or love or don’t love, will be by Him. Not by your nafs. It will be for Him. Not for your nafs.

This means you will love what He loves and not love what He does not love. And when you do love, you will give to the creation—not for what you can get in return from them. You will love and you will give, but you will be sufficed from Him. And the one who is sufficed by God, is the richest and most generous of all lovers. Your love will be by Him, for Him, and because of Him. That is the liberation of the self from servitude to any created thing. And that is freedom. That is happiness.
That is love.

http://www.yasminmogahed.com/2012/01/03/this-is-love/

- cOsMiC

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

bumpety bump

[biz]

JazakAllah khair a good post sis.

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

I don't really understand the article. It's not clear in its message and pretty vague.

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[TrueStranger]

But, once in a while, people enter your life that you love—not for what they give you—but for what they are.

The beauty you see in them is a reflection of the Creator, so you love them.

Now suddenly it isn’t about what you’re getting, but rather what you can give.

In my opinion, people who love each other are constantly in a state of give and take. It's in our nature to receive as it is to give the Mercy, Grace, and Love God bestow upon us. Ultimately, we are dependent solely on God, and God in His infinite wisdom has put love between our hearts not only to Love Him, but so we could live with each other in peace.

"And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He put love and mercy between your hearts. Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." [Surah Rum: 21]

I do not think there is anyone who could say "This is Love"......

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

"And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He put love and mercy between your hearts. Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." [Surah Rum: 21]

Jazakallah khair for posting this verse.

This verse clearly says that Allah put love and mercy between the hearts of husbands and wives. Allah created men and women and He also created love between men and women. This love is different from other kinds of love. It can't be equalled with any other type of love, such as love between a mother and son, love between a brother and sister, love between friends or love between a servant and his master. The love that we have for God is also different.

Indeed, the signs of God are clear... and the verse mentions this as well: Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

:sl:

I don't really understand the article. It's not clear in its message and pretty vague.

I'm sorry you didn't understand the article, if you have any particular questions perhaps I can try and help better ur understanding of it insha Allah :)

In my opinion, people who love each other are constantly in a state of give and take. It's in our nature to receive as it is to give the Mercy, Grace, and Love God bestow upon us. Ultimately, we are dependent solely on God, and God in His infinite wisdom has put love between our hearts not only to Love Him, but so we could live with each other in peace.

"And among His Signs is that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He put love and mercy between your hearts. Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." [Surah Rum: 21]

I do not think there is anyone who could say "This is Love"......

Perhaps you are missing the point of the article all together Ukhti. It is the constant state of give and take that should be avoided. Our prophet (s.a.w) never expected anything in return for what he did or gave, he thought us that only with Allah should we seek reward, and only for his sake should we do what we do for others, including our spouse. Why?

Indeed mankind, to his Lord, is ungrateful. [100:6]

and if man is ungrateful to his own creator, why would they even bother to be grateful to another human? Man quickly forgets the good done to him/ for him and quick to remember another's faults. SO, if you re-read this article you will see that it is encouraging to focus your love on Allah, love one another for HIS sake, not for each other's wants and whims, because they change very often. That is the nature of emotions, and that is what should be avoided in a marriage, unfortunately, it is the opposite in these times.

As the surah you quoted is one I am very familiar with. It mentions, that mates were created among yourselves so that you may dwell in tranquility. Where is the tranquility in a relationship full of expectations, which more often than not are based on personal desires? There is a much deeper meaning to this surah, if you truly reflect upon it. The tranquility is there when both husband and wife are focused on Allah, when they help each other stay on the straight path, when they are each otehr's garments and protect each other's imaan, and when they are both detached from worldly desires...

We must look beyond our own nafs to truly get the message being presented here.

"This means you will love what He loves and not love what He does not love. And when you do love, you will give to the creation—not for what you can get in return from them. You will love and you will give, but you will be sufficed from Him. And the one who is sufficed by God, is the richest and most generous of all lovers. Your love will be by Him, for Him, and because of Him. That is the liberation of the self from servitude to any created thing. And that is freedom. That is happiness."

- cOsMiC

[TrueStranger]

:sl:

Of course sister Cosmic, you made a great point.

[Cabdullahi]

I think it would be better if this thread was moved to the sisters section.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

I think it would be better if this thread was moved to the sisters section.

^o) I don't think so, this is for both men and women. Go browse through the "i cant get married" kind of threads, read them fully then come back here and read the article, so u understand what is being said here. It applies to both genders.

- cOsMiC

[Scimitar]

You know, in the wests main language - and the language most spoken in the world (English), there is only one word for love? Love itself... hardly does the word justice. There are many types of love. In Urdu alone, there are 3 words for love that I know... and can describe why they are different.

Examples:

Pyar: Love, generalised (needs citation lol)
Ishq: Passionate love (needs citation lol)
Mohaubbat: Deep unfaltering love (needs citation lol)

Arabic, has many MANY words for love. The natural eloquence of the Arabic language allows for one to express themselves much better in this regard.

English, pales by comparison and by it's very nature seems to be a language that likes to either generalise or negate certain concepts that relate to human emotion, even if they are related. For example - the many way of Love. I hope that makes sense... [it doesn't to me when I read it back]

These are my thoughts.



Scimi

[Jedi_Mindset]

Good post sis, we should show our true love towards Allah subhana wa'a ta'ala. And do good deeds for the sake of Him, when you marry its the beginning true love while come at a time but not that emotional attachment love we are seeing, this is often more hard for women because they're more emotional beings, sadly many men have joined this also thanks to the fitnah of today.

Jazaak'Allah khair for the explanation.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

You know, in the wests main language - and the language most spoken in the world (English), there is only one word for love? Love itself... hardly does the word justice. There are many types of love. In Urdu alone, there are 3 words for love that I know... and can describe why they are different.

Examples:

Pyar: Love, generalised (needs citation lol)
Ishq: Passionate love (needs citation lol)
Mohaubbat: Deep unfaltering love (needs citation lol)

Arabic, has many MANY words for love. The natural eloquence of the Arabic language allows for one to express themselves much better in this regard.

English, pales by comparison and by it's very nature seems to be a language that likes to either generalise or negate certain concepts that relate to human emotion, even if they are related. For example - the many way of Love. I hope that makes sense... [it doesn't to me when I read it back]

These are my thoughts.



Scimi

It Makes perfect sense. I think this goes along well with what you are trying to say here:

A brief discussion on the linguistic nuances in verse 21 of Surat Ar-Rum.

- cOsMiC

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

I decided to do a critical analysis of this article.

This is love.
And so there are some who spend their whole lives seeking. Sometimes giving, sometimes taking. Sometimes chasing. But often, just waiting. They believe that love is a place that you get to: a destination at the end of a long road. And they can’t wait for that road to end at their destination. They are those hearts moved by the movement of hearts. Those hopeless romantics, the sucker for a love story, or any sincere expression of true devotion. For them, the search is almost a lifelong obsession of sorts. But, this tragic ‘quest’ can have its costs—and its’ gifts.

Yes, there are people who spend their entire lives seeking love. They want to love and to be loved back in return. Honestly, is there a single person out there in the world who does not want love or who does not seek love? Without love, this world would not function. Think of the love that a mother has for her child. Without it, would the human race continue and go on? What about the love that is between man and wife? Without it would a marriage be happy and functional? Take the ingredient of love away from a relationship and there is something vitally missing. If a person does not seek love or want to be loved, there is something dreadfully wrong. It's more truthful to say that most of us spend our lives looking for love... Some of us are fortunate enough to find it. Others are not.

The path of expectations and the ‘falling in love with love’ is a painful one, but it can bring its own lessons. Lessons about the nature of love, this world, people, and one’s own heart, can pave this often painful path. Most of all, this path can bring its own lessons about the Creator of love.

Expecting anything from anyone isn't a good idea because one is bound to get disappointed when one's expectations are not met. But this is a general principle, not limited to expectations people have about falling in love or falling in love with love.

I didn't get the meaning of these lines.... so I continue to read it for further elaboration:

Those who take this route will often reach the knowledge that the human love they seek was not the destination. Some form of that human love, can be a gift. It can be a means. But the moment you make it the End, you will fall. And you will live your whole life with the wrong focus. You will become willing to sacrifice the Goal for the sake of the means. You will give your life to reaching a ‘destination’ of worldly perfection that does not exist.

So those who take the route of seeking love will end up not finding it because it does not exist? That it is not possible to find love? That seeking love is a futile endeavor? That we should never make it our goal to find love? That doing so is living your life with the wrong focus?

Hmmmm. It seems this is what the writer is saying. Because she continues with the following lines:

And the one who runs after a mirage, never gets there; but keeps running. And so too will you keep running, and be willing to lose sleep, cry, bleed, and sacrifice precious parts of yourself—at times, even your own dignity. But you’ll never reach what you’re looking for in this life, because what you seek isn’t a worldly destination. The type of perfection you seek cannot be found in the material world. It can only be found in God.

In other words, the writer likens the seeking of love to running after a mirage. Running after something that is non-existent. She claims that love is not real. It isn't a destination or a goal.

Well, I would have to disagree. Love can't be seen or perceived by our five senses... but it is very much real. Just as justice, mercy and compassion are real. The writer further claims that love cannot be found in the material world. And that it can only be found in God.

Again, I would have to disagree. Love is found between mother and child, husband and wife, brother and sister, friends, relatives and neighbors. Not just in God.

That image of human love that you seek is an illusion in the desert of life. So if that is what you seek, you’ll keep chasing. But no matter how close you get to a mirage, you never touch it. You don’t own an image. You can’t hold a creation of your own mind.

I wouldn't say that. Some people have been fortunate enough to find love in their lives. And because of that, they lead happy lives.

Yet, you will give your whole life, still, to reaching this ‘place’. You do this because in the fairy tale, that’s where the story ends. It ends at the finding, the joining, the wedding. It is found at the oneness of two souls. And everyone around you will make you think that your path ends there: at the place where you meet your soul mate, your other half—at the point in the path where you get married. Then and only then, they tell you, will you ever finally be complete. This, of course, is a lie because completion cannot be found in anything other than God.

In Islam, marriage is considered half your faith. Without his wife a man is incomeplete and vice versa. This is a fact... It's strange that the writer calls this a lie. It's even stranger that the writer goes on to say that completion can only be found in God.

Really? If that's the case, why get married? Why not just seek God?

Islam is a practical religion. We are not commanded to become monks or nuns.

But the lesson you’ve been taught since the time you were little—from every story, every song, every movie, every ad, every well-meaning auntie—is that you aren’t complete otherwise. And if—God forbid—you are one of the ‘outcasts’ who haven’t gotten married, or have been divorced, you are considered deficient or incomplete in some way.

I'm not sure this is the lesson we have been taught.

The lesson you’re taught is that the story ends at the wedding, and then that’s when Jennah (paradise) begins. That’s when you’ll be saved and completed and everything that was once broken will be fixed. The only problem is, that’s not where the story ends. That’s where it begins. That’s where the building starts: the building of a life, the building of your character, the building of sabr, patience, perseverance, and sacrifice. The building of selflessness. The building of love.And the building of your path back to Him.

Really? Is this the lesson that people have been taught? That the story ends at the wedding? On the contrary, there is plenty of advice given by elders regarding marriage. And much of this advice goes along the following lines: "Marriage takes work. It takes two hands to clap."

The writer is making too many generalizations and assumptions.

But if the person you marry becomes your ultimate focus in life, your struggle has just begun. Now your spouse will become your greatest test. Until you remove that person from the place in your heart that only God should be, it will keep hurting. Ironically, your spouse will become the tool for this painful extraction process, until you learn that there are places in the human heart made only by—and for—God.

Well, well, well! For a Muslim woman, her ultimate focus in life ought to be her husband. Her pleasure should lie in his pleasure. Her striving is to obey him, please him, keep him happy, help him, serve him, advice him and be there for him at all times, through the good times as well as the bad. As for the Muslim husband, his striving is to take care of his wife, provide for her, protect her, show her kindness and treat her with respect. The real test of a Muslim man lies in how he treats his wife. If a couple love each other, it makes it easier for them to take care of each other and do their duties. Take away love from their hearts and it becomes difficult for them to please one another and keep each other happy. Had Allah not put love in the hearts of husband and wife, life for them would be a chore and a drag. That's why this love is a mercy from Allah.

And here you have a writer who says that this love is but an illusion. That it does not exist. That it's a mirage. And that the only love that exists or counts is the love for God.

Among the other lessons you may learn along this path—after a long road of loss, gain, failure, success, and so many mistakes—is that there are at least 2 types of love. There will be some people you love because of what you get from them: what they give you, the way they make you feel. This is perhaps the majority of love—which is also what makes much of love so unstable. A person’s capacity to give is inconstant and changing. Your response to what you are given is also inconstant and changing. So if you’re chasing a feeling, you’ll always be chasing. No feeling is ever constant. If love is dependent on this, it too becomes inconstant and changing. And just like everything in this world, the more you chase it, the more it will run away from you.

Real love isn't so fickle. The love that the writer is describing isn't love at all.

But, once in a while, people enter your life that you love—not for what they give you—but for what they are. The beauty you see in them is a reflection of the Creator, so you love them. Now suddenly it isn’t about what you’re getting, but rather what you can give. This is unselfish love. This second type of love is the most rare. And if it is based in, and not competing with, the love of God, it will also bring about the most joy. To love in any other way is to need, to be dependent, to have expectations—all the ingredients for misery and disappointment.

For a person not to love what is good would be a strange thing. What is good is beautiful and people are attracted to what is beautiful. It's got nothing to do with giving and taking. We naturally love what is good, true, beautiful and right.

So for all those, who have spent their life seeking, know that purity of any thing is found at the Source. If it is love that you seek, seek it through God. Every other stream, not based in His love, poisons the one who drinks from it. And the drinker will continue to drink, until the poison all but kills him. He will continue to die more and more inside, until he stops and finds the pure Source of water.

Seek love through God? And all the while the writer has insisted that love is a mirage? Not a destination? Non-existent?

Allah is Al-Quddus, The Pure. He created all things.... and there is perfection in all things. The world and all things in it reflect the magnificence, might, grandeur and omnipotence of Allah. Purity of anything depends on the eyes of the beholder. The beholder who is able to see good (purity) in all things.

Once you begin to see everything beautiful as only a reflection of God’s beauty, you will learn to love in the right way: for His sake. Everything and everyone you love with be for, through and because of Him. The foundation of such love is God. So what you hold onto will no longer be just an unstable feeling, a fleeting emotion. And what you chase will no longer be just a temporary high. What you hold, what you chase, what you love, will be God: the *only* thing stable and constant. Thereafter, everything else will be through Him. Everything you give or take or love or don’t love, will be by Him. Not by your nafs. It will be for Him. Not for your nafs.

The love of God isn't such a simple thing to achieve. It requires struggle and a deep thirst for knowledge that is driven by sincerity. Only the sincere are guided by Allah, the Most High.

It is the opinion of the writer that people would learn to love in the right way only if they see God's beauty in everything. Otherwise, it isn't the "right way" to love.

I think one point is totally overlooked. Love is something that Allah casts in the hearts of people. If He does not cast this love in the heart of people, they won't have it even if they "begin to see everthing beautiful as only a reflection of God's beauty."

This means you will love what He loves and not love what He does not love. And when you do love, you will give to the creation—not for what you can get in return from them. You will love and you will give, but you will be sufficed from Him. And the one who is sufficed by God, is the richest and most generous of all lovers. Your love will be by Him, for Him, and because of Him. That is the liberation of the self from servitude to any created thing. And that is freedom. That is happiness.
That is love.

So is this the point of this article? That the only love that matters is the love of God? And all other forms of love are just illusions, mirages... non-existent and not worth pursuing?

And this article is supposed to help couples have better marriages?

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

Thank you for taking time out to give your opinion Ukhti :) You made some good points. I don't have time right now to reply to them but I will get to it sometime tomorrow insha Allah, long day ahead so I must get to sleep.Will be back insha Allah.

- cOsMiC

[dqsunday]

I have to say the article is a bit...convoluted. I didn't read all the way through it as I found it rather lengthy and didn't really get to any point, other than too many people waste time trying to find love and expecting to find that special someone who fits in their idealistic view of what the perfect spouse is.

About the only thing I completely agree on, is marriage is just the beginning. That and people do waste alot of time hoping to find that one perfect person etc. Nobody's perfect LOL At best you find somebody who you get along with and form an emotional bond of mutual respect and companionship. Most times this is done via years of good communication and willing to sacrifice. In my experiene most marriages fail due to lack of communciation...that and having patience. too much tunnel vision and charging head on without stopping to look around and listen to what the real issue is.

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

I have to say the article is a bit...convoluted.

Yes, it is. And how beneficial is an article if one can't comprehend it?

About the only thing I completely agree on, is marriage is just the beginning.

I believe people are smart enough to understand and observe this fact of life.

That and people do waste alot of time hoping to find that one perfect person etc. Nobody's perfect.

Right.. nobody's perfect. And I believe most people understand this point as well. There isn't any perfect person.... but there IS something called the perfect match. I don't think it's a waste of time searching for a match that is perfect or ideal for oneself. It is another matter that it's difficult and that most people settle for mates that are less than perfect.... but that doesn't mean that one can't hope to find that perfect soul mate or that it's a waste of time trying to find one.

[Silent Peace]

Nice thread sis, Jazak'Allah Khair for posting.

[Periwinkle18]

JazakAllah khayrun sis :) amazing post

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Great article and some great responses, MashaAllah.


The type of love being critisized in the article is in short -
the romantic, infatuation-filled, head-over-heels, lost-all-my-senses, cant-breathe-without-you 'love'.


We have all dreamt about it (yes you have! : ) )
We may have expierenced it at some point in our lives......and it FEELS GOOD!

It is the type of emotion that sends you into a 'high' - just based on the feel-good chemical responses that are released in your brain (and other organs, lol).

We have seen this type of 'love' in the movies, read about it in novels......we have been brain-washed into believing that this is LOVE.

Instead, as Sh Hamza Yusuf mentions, this is nothing more than LUST.
A lust that is not lasting.
That as easily as it was achieved......so too, it is easily replaced by another.
It is shallow, temporary and artificial.
And its roots are embedded outside of marriage - in zina-filled pre-marital relationships.

A marriage solemnized under the sunnah of our beloved prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) does not make room for this.....at all.

A man seeking marriage asks for her hand from her Wali......not from her.
They meet.
They read istikharah <--- They seek guidance from ALLAH. NOT guidance from their hearts.
They make nikkah shortly thereafter if there is a positive sign.

^ Where in this format is place for 'truly, madly, deeply, cant-get-you-out-of-my-mind' type of madness?

Yes, the world has gone mad!
And they call it love!
lol


Love within marriage is:

- Loving the other for the PLEASURE OF ALLAH.
- Working towards the same goal in life - Al Aakhirah < -- Can there be any divorces if THIS was our goal?
- Knowing that your spouse is a means of ful-filling half your IMAAN <-- What an immense status in Islam!

- And importantly - its not as much about 'giving and receiving' as it is how you make the other FEEL.


“I've learned that people will forget what you said,
people will forget what you did,
but people will never forget how you made them feel.” (Maya Angelou) <--How true is this?


May Allah (subhanawataála) fill our hearts with understanding..... and love for HIM and his Rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) that surpasses all else.
Ameen.

:wa:

[~ Sabr ~]

Very good article MashaAllaah. it's like how all Bollywood films used to depict the same stuff - get married, live happily ever after

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

Jazaak Allah Khair Sis Zaria for your input! :) and Jazaak Allah Khair to all of you who took time to read what has been posted in this thread.

I wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Do classical Arabic speaking persons understand the true nature of love better than a uni-lingual English person who only speaks English?
Is your ability to love increased the more languages you speak?

Languages open up the sphere of learning other realities, and therefore this increases understanding
understanding something is the opposite of not understanding it, therefore, understanding something builds a familiarity on the subject, and an interest in it can lead to a love of the subject. No?

- cOsMiC

[~Zaria~]

^Good points ukthi,

There have been many studies that show that lanuguage affects the way we actually think about things.

Does it affect how we Love?

I personally, (in a completely unevidenced way : ) ) dont think it would....to any great extent......

The fact is that 'romantic' love (we'll call it such, as theres no english word to encompass this meaning : ) ) cannot in itself, be fully understood from just a single word.

So whether we call it 'love', 'ishq', 'hubb' ......no matter how many ways we may wish to call it - its an emotion (as all other emotions) that needs to be FELT to be TRULY understood.

e.g I will not be able to perfectly describe to someone what anger is - if they have never experienced it for themselves.
Think about it - how can you fully explain how anger actually feels?

Same too for love.......

Emotions are what makes us human.......whether you are Russian, African, Mexican or English.

It requires no degree.
It is felt by the literate and illiterate alike.

What changes its experience to the beholder - is the nature of his/ her HEART.

A hardened heart (corrupted by this dunya) - may not be able to feel the INTENSITY of love, as the one whose heart is softened......
No matter the language....: )


:wa:

[TrueStranger]

Assalamu-alaikum,

Great article and some great responses, MashaAllah.


The type of love being critisized in the article is in short -
the romantic, infatuation-filled, head-over-heels, lost-all-my-senses, cant-breathe-without-you 'love'.

:wa:

:sl:


How would you describe the love/hate relationship between Mughith and Barirah?

[~Zaria~]

:sl:


How would you describe the love/hate relationship between Mughith and Barirah?

:wa:

From the ahadith that we have available - it would be speculation on my part to try and adequately describe the relationship between Mughith and Barirah....

Why did Mughith love Barirah so?
Was it her beauty?
Her piety?
Or that he did not wish to break a marriage?

And why did Barirah reject the love of Mughith?
His character?
Appearance?
Her love for another?

Who knows......

I think that their story demonstrates that Islam does not enforce people to enter/ remain within a marriage.....as shown by prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam)'s response to the situation.

الله العالم

[TrueStranger]

:wa:

From the ahadith that we have available - it would be speculation on my part to try and adequately describe the relationship between Mughith and Barirah....

Why did Mughith love Barirah so?
Was it her beauty?
Her piety?
Or that he did not wish to break a marriage?

And why did Barirah reject the love of Mughith?
His character?
Appearance?
Her love for another?

Who knows......

I think that their story demonstrates that Islam does not enforce people to enter/ remain within a marriage.....as shown by prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam)'s response to the situation.

الله العالم

Not forcing people to enter or remain in a marriage is just one lesson we could learn from this story. It's true that no one really knows as to why he loved her or why she hated him. However, the Prophet (PBUH) was astonished at the love Mughith had for her and the distain Barriah had for Mughith (The Prophet said to Abbas: ‘O Abbas! Are you not astonished at the love of Mughith for Barira and the hatred of Barira for Mughith?)

How would you describe his behavior (running after her in the public, tears running down his beard)? And was it one in which the prophet (PBUH) disapproved of or an understandable behavior which showed the complexities of love. I would not be wrong to say Mughith was head over heels for Barriah. I'm truly amazed at people who think that the correct "love" that should exist in a marriage is one which requires a spouse to love their partner for the Sake of Allah.

Do you think the love a mother has for her child is due to her ability to love for the sake of Allah?

[CosmicPathos]

Without his wife a man is incomeplete and vice versa.

where did you get that from? Islam only calls marriage half of faith (and Islam does not say that love is half of faith! note the difference between marriage and love!), Islam does not say your manhood will be incomplete without a wife. Remember, Adam was created complete and then hawa was created from his completed rib.

I am complete without a wife. Dont insult men and women.

[~Zaria~]

^ JazakAllah khair for the response.

Certainly the prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) was astonished at the extremes of emotions that the couple felt for each other.

However, I dont think we can compare the love that Mughith felt for his wife - to the lust we see today.....

Remember: the two were practically forced into marriage to each other by their 'owners' (as they were slaves at the time).

There was no chance of an irrational, hormone-surged romance preceding their union (as is in many cases today).

I imagine that the pain felt by Mughith was that of a husband losing his wife (and from what I understand, the mother of his child).
To someone who loves his spouse, and possibly could not understand her intense rejection of him - this was understandably a painful, heart-wrenching point in his life.

I'm truly amazed at people who think that the correct "love" that should exist in a marriage is one which requires a spouse to love their partner for the Sake of Allah.

My ukthi, a marriage that is initiated in the correct manner (i.e. without the prolonged, pre-marital engagements/ meetings/ 'getting-to-know-each-other-better' scenario) - does not provide the opportunity to be based on intense love.
Think about it.

Within the marriage, one prays that Allah (subhanawata'la) fills the hearts of the individuals with love, mercy and kindness towards each other.
The love grows within the marriage.....for each other, as well as for the pleasure of Allah (subhanawataála).

In fact, our lives should be lived that whatever we do - it is with the intention of drawing near to Allah, and to gain HIS pleasure.
Not just in love for your spouse.....
But everything.....

When you leave home for work: 'My intention O' Rabb is to obtain halaal rizq to support my family - gaining YOUR pleasure.
When you commence any activity: 'O Allah - I am performing such and such.......for YOUR pleasure.
In fact, every act in our lives can be an ibaadat.....if we just change our intentions.

And so too, loving your spouse - for the sake of Allah - is the highest form of love.
It is based on something beyond the beautiful face and smile......beyond every other material aspect......

This type of love does not give room to the phrase:
"I cant live without you" <-- Yes, you can! Because your life and death is meant for Allah alone!

It does not allow for thoughts of suicide or major depression at the loss of the loved one (as is in many cases today).

It is a love felt for each other that brings you closer to Allah......not further away out of distraction.

It in no way precludes loving each other, as individuals.......it is taking it a step further - by adding the intention of seeking Allahs pleasure in the process.


:wa:

[TrueStranger]

Sister Zaria, there is nothing wrong with loving for the sake of Allah, and so far no one has given a clear definition of what it means to “Love for the Sake of Allah”, especially when it comes to a spouse. What exactly are you giving up or struggling against for the Sake of Allah? What have you forsaken for the sake of Allah?

I clearly understand what it means to forsake something or someone for the Sake of Allah. People give up their wealth, children, and their own lives for the sake of Allah. They are losing something/someone to which they're naturally inclined towards, so they could gain the Pleasure of Allah. One cannot measure the psychological struggle and the worldly costs they face as a result of Loaning to Allah a beautiful Loan, and therefore they could only be truly rewarded by Allah.

It’s unrealistic to put your hereafter in the hands of a spouse. If one loves someone for the sake of Allah, then would they Divorce each other for the Sake of Allah? Or would they stop loving each other for the Sake of Allah?

Hatred, jealousy, and pain also develops from within marriages. The companions of the Prophet (PBUH) married, divorced, and remarried. They did not divorce because they were not able to love each other for the Sake of Allah, for verily they have sacrificed more for Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (PBUH) than anyone alive today. They were realistic and knew that personality, behavior, and our natural inclination to like/love some more than others exists ( as long as it is not Haraam)

You have to remember that I’ve never compared Mughith’s love with lust. Lust is lust, and love is love. To take some normal aspects of love and label it lust is unrealistic. There are plenty of men who divorce their wives and do not experience the pain of Mughith or show the love he had for Barira in public or in private.

There is nothing wrong with saying that “one can not live without someone else”. I could honestly say that I would not know what to do with myself if I lost either one of my parents today. However, that expression does not translate to “I will kill myself”. If one experiences “major depression”, then it’s an unfortunate fate that has befallen them, and they should remain patient and seek the Help of Allah, and the righteous around them.

The prophet (PBUH) lost his beloved wife Khadija and his uncle Abu Talib in the same year, and that year today is referred to as the Year of Sadness. On top of that the boycott the Quriash has imposed on the Muslims had adverse consequences on the wellbeing of believers. It's completely normal to have certain emotions, as long as they are not accompanied by Haraam activities and behavior.

I could understand where you are coming from, however, I might not agree with you. If a woman or a man wants to marry an individual that is blind, poor, unhealthy, extremely not of their liking…etc for the Sake of Allah then May Allah reward them in this world and the hereafter. If Barira had taken the Prophet's (PBUH) advice and married Mughith for the Sake of Allah (SWT) and His Messenger (PBUH), then I would have recognized their love and marriage as one that exists for the Sake of Allah. But, sadly that did not happen.

Please let's not say that one is "Loving someone for the Sake of Allah”, when one has not forsaken anything.

[Flame of Hope]

I am complete without a wife.

:sl:

Really? Then you are not in need of a wife.

[CosmicPathos]

:sl:

Really? Then you are not in need of a wife.

And that is indeed a victory. Self-dependence.

Salam.

[Rhubarb Tart]

If the writer was referring to lust why did he write about love? We are not machine that can simply switch on our emotions for sake of Allah (swt). To be honest, "love for sake of Allah (swt)" has been used to restrict couples in empty shield marriages. And divorce wouldn't be halal if we could love that person for sake of Allah(swt).
The prophet(pbuh) wouldn't grant a woman a divorce because she didn't like her husband. He would have told her go back and love him for sake of Allah(swt). But he didn't.

Now let be real, apart fair tale stories (the clue is in the name), most novels and movies don't have couple fall in love straight away. The couple have instant attraction, then they get to know each other and even have struggle within their relationship and THEN they fall in love. And it not technically blind love to the point they neglect everything around them (the world doesn't evolve around their partner). When western people speak in these terms it is often in metaphors. The difference we meant go through similar process within marriage framework and we meant some attraction at the very least before marriage.

The article addresses people in cold manner like people dont have feelings and their own perception. Everything will be fine if you do it for sake off Allah (swt), it don't matter whether you like their personality or appearance, just marry, we'll eventually "learn" to love if you do it for sake of Allah (swt). Sorry but human beings are complex and will always be complex. And doing it for sake of Allah (swt) will not guarantee that they will love for sake of Allah(swt) too. It's Allah (swt) choice whether he put the love between the two partners. And sometimes, he doesn't or take that love away, which why there are divorces.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

For a Muslim woman, her ultimate focus in life ought to be her husband. Her pleasure should lie in his pleasure. Her striving is to obey him, please him, keep him happy, help him, serve him, advice him and be there for him at all times, through the good times as well as the bad. As for the Muslim husband, his striving is to take care of his wife, provide for her, protect her, show her kindness and treat her with respect.

Although I can see where you are coming from, i have to say that "For a Muslim woman, her ultimate focus in life ought to be her husband" is wrong. Every human being's main focus in life should be Allah, not another person. In regards to the rest of your comment, which is correct, the question then becomes WHY should a woman obey her husband, please him, keep him happy, help him, serve him and advise him? WHY should a muslim husband strive to take care of his wife, provide for her, protect her, show her kindness and treat her with respect?

Because he needs her and she needs him in order to walk the straight path. By her being his support she makes it easier for him to walk that path, by him protecting and caring for her he makes it possible for her to do this(to be his support). Hawa was created for Adam, so that he may dwell in tranquility with her and her in him. It is a duality. Allah created everything in pairs. The goal is Jannah, not each other, we all die alone and stay in our own grave. If a woman sets her ultimate goal to be her husband, she will have a very rude awakening when the angel of death comes ... What the article mentions is, To love for each other's sake and do things for each other's sake is to serve another creation for their sake, not for the sake of the creator. In other words, it is a form of shirk. Because the spouse is being put before Allah, and nothing comes before Allah. Let me clarify by saying that, this may not be your intention or anybody elses, but it is a very fine line that should be in constant check.

Please read on as i am covering some other points you brough up in your response as well that were brought up by other sisters too :) .

How would you describe the love/hate relationship between Mughith and Barirah?

They did not have a love hate relationship, this hadith is being used out of context. As far as know, Barira was a slave who was freed by Aisha (ra). As a slave, barira did not have a choice as to whom she married, she was forced into the marriage with Mughith who was also a slave. When Barira was freed, she was given a choice of whether she wanted to stay or not and she opted to stay alone. Why? Well, if she stayed, she would be under the authority of a slave, and if you understand slavery you know that a slave owns nothing. Anything he has belongs to his master, so a free woman married to a slave makes for incompatibility, that doesn't mean it is not possible, but it makes it very difficult. If a slave can own nothing, this means he cannot give anything to his wife without his master's permission, so what purpose then, would her freedom serve? She would live the same life. That is a choice she was given and she opted out. Rasullallah (s.a.w.) did try to intercede on behalf of Mughith, but she still declined.

How would you describe his behavior (running after her in the public, tears running down his beard)?

The story does illustrate emotion, Mughith was sad to lose someone he loved, because love does exist. As sister Zaria said, the love that Mughith felt for his wife is not comparable to the love spoken of today, which is what the article is focusing on. Lust and love are indeed confused and we also have the problem of attachments to dunya, a spouse is part of this dunya at the end of the day. Emotions are TOOLS, they are MEANS to and end but are not the end themselves. Without emotions and desires we would have no drive to do anything. The fluctuation of your Imaan is a perfect example. When your imaan is high, your love for Allah is intense, when it is low, your Love for Allah is less intense. When it is higher, and you feel more love, you are more driven to do good deeds etc. Correct? However we cannot solely depend on the means, for instance when you know your imaan is slacking, you make an effort FOR HIS SAKE, to improve your imaan. You forsake your own personal desires (diciplining onself, like restraing from food when u fast or limiting distractions), and that is why bani Adam is different from all creation, we have the ability to choose. Therefore are capable of sacrificing for Allah's sake.

Do you think the love a mother has for her child is due to her ability to love for the sake of Allah?

The love a mother has for her children is not the same as the love she has for her husband, although it is similar in some ways. The love for her children makes her sacrifice her comforts, wake up ever hour to suckle them, deal with tantrums, needs, and when they are older dealing with them mouthing off after she sacrificed so much for them, just to name a few things. What a mother has for her children is mercy and compassion, and Allah has much more mercy and compassion for us than a mother for her child. Every emotion we have is a way for us to be closer to Allah. If we lose something such as a loved one, it is a time to reflect and realize that you truly only have Allah, that is an opportunity to turn to him. Our naffs tends to get attached to anything related to dunya, and when we have pain, such as in the case of Mughith, it is usually because of something we cannot accept, because of that attachment. Mercy, Love, compassion, Patience, those are all attributes of Allah swt, he created us, and with those feelings and emotions, directed the right way with dicipline, we can get to know him more and more if we reflect upon them.

Please let's not say that one is "Loving someone for the Sake of Allah”, when one has not forsaken anything.

In the article, the author says "That’s where the building starts: the building of a life, the building of your character, the building of sabr, patience, perseverance, and sacrifice. The building of selflessness. The building of love.And the building of your path back to Him."

How exactly does this happen? The building of love? The building of your path back to him? Well those of us who have been married before can attest to the amount of sacrifice one makes in a marriage. You forsake SO MUCH in a marriage. The problem is when the forsaking happens for the other person INSTEAD OF ALLAH. Which was one of the main points of the article, and why I shared it. That is where we bring up the subject of unrealistic expectations, disappointments, chasing after a wordly perfection that does not exist etc which all lead to divorce..

If you forsake your comforts for the sake of Allah, you do it to shape your character, because that brings you closer to him and ultimately increases your love for him, therefore it is for his sake. A woman serves her husband and obeys him FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH not for him. A man provides for her and protects her FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH not for her. If they do this for each other, at some point they will begin the bickering (which worsens with time) because they are both human and ungrateful. Doing all of this for the sake of Allah swt, is Loving them for the sake of Allah. There will be no disappointments, fighting or distractions to steer one away from Allah and the straight path. It doesn't instantly happen this way of course, especially not this day in age, but we must remember that is the goal here, that is what marriage is all about. Purification of the heart, building of the character, learning things like mercy, compassion,patience/sabr,forgiveness, selflessness, LOVE and the list goes on, that is all learned in marriage, that is why it is half of your deen.

As I stated before, we have to look past our own naffs/ego to begin to grasp this. I find this to be an extremely important subject because the divorce rate is extremely high, even amongst muslims, and the amount of new marriages is very low. People of my generation and the genration after mine (late 80's here) seem to not have a clue as to what marriage is about anymore, they have lost respect for it and the family unit. SO, it isn't about personal opinion really, I wanted to have this discussion with you all :) and I'm happy to see participation Alhamdullilah!

If I offended any of you, please forgive me, it wasn't my intention.

- cOsMiC

[Rhubarb Tart]

If it is about our desires, why did the prophet (pbuh) allow a woman to divorcé her husband because she did not like him? Why didn’t he tell her to go back to her husband? Why were there high divorce rate amongst the companions (peace be upon them)? Why did they not condemn each other from following their own desires? Why is there a different set of rules for them but for us, we are being selfish?


Again, you just like the author speak about human being in cold way. Like marriage is about playing a particular “role” and everything will be fine. Contentment within marriage is vital for it to work. Previous generations before us were expected to stay within a marriage. Divorce was looked down upon for them; it didn’t matter whether they were content within that marriage, whether their partner treated well. Even if, one of the spouses was beating the other, the victim was still expected to stay in that marriage.

[Rhubarb Tart]

the wife of Thabit Ibn Qais (one of the companions), she went to the Prophet, she said he had no flaws in his character, but she wanted to divorce him. The Prophet asked if she would return her dowry, she said yes, and so he said her seperation was valid. (Bukhari) What was her reason? Was it a 'real' reason? Was the fragrance of paradise forbidden for her - I doubt it, and God knows best. There is a great deal written to disincentive women from seperating from their husbands, though from the actual example of the early Muslims we see that the right of a woman to do so were maintained, which included a woman who seperated from her husband because he wasnt able to perform in an intimate manner, to which the Prophet did not object.

[ardianto]

Assalamu'alaikum.

What's difference between live single and live as married person?

Live single is like drive a car alone. You can go anywhere you want.

Live as married person is like drive a car with two steering wheels, one controlled by the husband, one controlled by the wife. Just imagine if the husband want to turn right, and the wife want to turn left.

This is why quarrel always happen in marriage, even marriage without quarrel actually is abnormal. Marriage is a unity of two persons with two different personalities which they have different will, different want.

If the husband and wife could not able to make compromise and handle those difference, the marriage would be ended in divorce. But if the husband and wife could build an understanding between them, Insha Allah, they would feel closer with each other, and love the spouse more than before.

This is why, marriage is not the end of love story, but the beginning of love story.

:)

[Scimitar]

Previous generations before us were expected to stay within a marriage. Divorce was looked down upon for them; it didn’t matter whether they were content within that marriage, whether their partner treated well. Even if, one of the spouses was beating the other, the victim was still expected to stay in that marriage.

There is a great deal written to disincentive women from seperating from their husbands, though from the actual example of the early Muslims we see that the right of a woman to do so were maintained, which included a woman who seperated from her husband because he wasnt able to perform in an intimate manner, to which the Prophet did not object.

what exactly is your point? in one breath I am reading "victim is expected to stay in marriage" and in another breath I am reading women are not expected to stay with their husbands?

For the record, divorce is still looked down upon. I don't know when it became fashionable, didn't even realise divorce was a fashion.

Scimi

[Jedi_Mindset]

I want to marry for the sake of Allah subhana wa'a ta'ala for the sake of imaan - not love attachments. Love builds up between a husband and wife when they are married and live together - thats the barakah and thats not the so called romantic love from shaytaan.

Is that so difficult to grasp brothers and sisters?

[CosmicPathos]

It is sad to see that whole Islamic discussion of "love and marriage" ignores the impact neurons, physiology, genes and hormones play in this process. We do not ignore these physical things when we study disease, but why do we ignore these things when we talk about love and marriage. There are biologically determined and biologically driven desires, with plethora of other enviornmental factors acting on them, which determine which woman falls for a man and what she looks for in him and what he says that'd turn her off and all the 'mind games/tests" he'd have to pass before they can be intimate and vice versa. And all of this does not follow any "logic." It's the way it is.

Discussion of "love" and "marriage" without reference to some biological and psychological principles is futile.

[MysticSoumeya]

I've read your posts with lotsa interest. The unmarried ones are pretty scared and full of all kinds of clichés written here and there. The fact is that we never fully know a person even if we know her/him for years and years. Life has that talent to unveil our different shades of personality throughout the various stages of our existence. There are couples who fell in love and married and live a very happy marital life, others who started a romantic relationship that faded away after their marriage. We all know perfect strangers who succeeded to build that Mawaddah that characterizes succesful marriages. Unfortunately, there are too many married people who are trapped in a spree of misunderstanding, difference and pain.

We are all different. There is no predifinite rule. It all depends on what Allah has written for us and our ability to cope with marital adversity.

[Scimitar]

It is sad to see that whole Islamic discussion of "love and marriage" ignores the impact neurons, physiology, genes and hormones play in this process. We do not ignore these physical things when we study disease, but why do we ignore these things when we talk about love and marriage. There are biologically determined and biologically driven desires, with plethora of other enviornmental factors acting on them, which determine which woman falls for a man and what she looks for in him and what he says that'd turn her off and all the 'mind games/tests" he'd have to pass before they can be intimate and vice versa. And all of this does not follow any "logic." It's the way it is.

Discussion of "love" and "marriage" without reference to some biological and psychological principles is futile.

I see what you are trying to say, and yes, there are other factors that we don't take into consideration (as you mentioned above) but to say that discussing love and marriage without some biological and psychological principles is futile, is a bit strong...

...If I may? in the same way I can say that the media affects our view of love, relationships and marriage so we must consider how much the media affects us in the subject of trust, relationships, love and marriage - and therefore, discussing these subjects without factoring in the media, is futile... ??? No. It isn't. And I say this because, when we approach a topic for discussion, there has to be a starting point, a basis for discussion. Debates / discussions start from the most basic understanding of the most common factors that affect the topic, and then we gradually move on to explore other possibilities which relate back to the core of the topic as another "branch to the tree" which is the main topic. In this way, we can factor in other less considered elements/influences, such as the impact which neurons, physiology, genes and hormones play in this process. But if we happen to miss that avenue of discussion, it doesn't make the discussion futile bro CP :) If anything, it can open other alternative considerations... as long as the debate / discussion sees progress, rather than regress, it's a success and not a futility

Scimi.

[CosmicPathos]

I've read your posts with lotsa interest. The unmarried ones are pretty scared and full of all kinds of clichés written here and there. The fact is that we never fully know a person even if we know her/him for years and years. Life has that talent to unveil our different shades of personality throughout the various stages of our existence. There are couples who fell in love and married and live a very happy marital life, others who started a romantic relationship that faded away after their marriage. We all know perfect strangers who succeeded to build that Mawaddah that characterizes succesful marriages. Unfortunately, there are too many married people who are trapped in a spree of misunderstanding, difference and pain.

We are all different. There is no predifinite rule. It all depends on what Allah has written for us and our ability to cope with marital adversity.

This....

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum all,

MashaAllah sis cosmic - you have explained it excellently.

I think the problem we have in understanding 'Love for the sake/ pleasure of Allah' stems from a westernised/ Hollywood-corrupted idea of HOW marriage is meant to occur in Islam.

Again, I will ask:
HOW does the possibillty for an intense, passionate, romance-charged love even exist.....if marriage occured after just 1 or 2 meetings between the individuals (with the girls wali present).....and then leaving your decision to guidance of Allah (subhanawataála)?

In other words - marriage in the above manner is one were both parties are saying:

- I do not know you now.....but I wish to get to know you on every possible level - and develop my love for you, within a marriage.

- I wish to love you.....because you are my ordained spouse.....a gift from Allah to me, in completing half my deen, being my supporter, my comfort through good and bad times, etc.

- And I wish to love you......seeking Allahs pleasure in the process

--> i.e. I will honour you as a husband/ wife - not only as a duty/ love for you.....but to earn Allahs pleasure.
--> My generosity and patience towards you, is not only out of duty/ love......but to earn Allahs pleasure.
--> My fidelity that I show within this marriage is not only out of duty/ love......but because this will be displeasing to Allah.

The love that develops between two people in this manner - is a more understanding, deeper and mature type of love, vs. the IDEA of what love is meant to be.
An idea that has resulted from societal conditioning.

This does not mean that romance can not develop within the marriage......insha Allah, it does.
Nor is it a guarantee against having problems.

Marriages fail due to many reasons.

And the story of Mughith and Barirah, as well as others, indicate that one is not expected to live a life of discontent/ misery if there exists a valid reason for divorce.

However: How blessed is the marriage that is undertaken - placing Allah Taala central to everything - including our love for our spouse......


:wa:

[~Zaria~]

#I cant seem to access page 3 of this thread via explorer/ firefox#

Just wanted to add:

If someone told me a few years ago, that the above sentiments would belong to me......I would have been in disbelief.

The fact is, that I was, and still am - a romantic at heart......secretly hoping for my own fairytale......insha Allah.

Time and the mercy of Allah (subhanawataála) has made me realise that I need to remove my rose-tinted glasses and understand life through Islam.

And that the type of fairy-tale that I was (and many of us are still) looking for, belongs in Hollywood.

My perceived fairytale has changed......its still a beautiful story - but one that is more realistic, ful-filling.....and with a far bigger purpose (then just the happily-ever-after fantasy).

Allah (subhanawatála) knows best.

[MysticSoumeya]

Awwwwwwwww sister Zaria, may Allah grant you all what you're dreaming of.

To complete what you've just written, many people think that longevity is a sign of success. Oh, there is an uncalculated number of people who are miserable in their couple. I know many people who accept passively the stenuous weight of routine on them while others grew in maturity through time and adversity. As muslims, we have mon responsibility thant that of average parents. We have to be examplary to introduce our children to life and give them an insight of family life.

[Rhubarb Tart]

what exactly is your point? in one breath I am reading "victim is expected to stay in marriage" and in another breath I am reading women are not expected to stay with their husbands?

For the record, divorce is still looked down upon. I don't know when it became fashionable, didn't even realise divorce was a fashion.

Scimi

There is a way of addressing a person, either you address in polite manner or you do one. I don’t care how you or your missus dominates this forum, politeness is common decency. You are reading what you want to read. Trying to make me look stupid?

As for your last statement, obviously I meant societal pressure; there isn’t societal pressure for people to stay in a marriage like there were for our parents. But what do I know? You and your missus are always right.

[Muezzin]

Please limit the discussion to the topic and not individual members. Thank you.

[TrueStranger]

:sl:

They did not have a love hate relationship, this hadith is being used out of context.

That is rather easily said than proven. The Prophet (PBUH) used the words hate & love. Mughith’s Love for Barira, and Barira’s hate for Mughith. If you like it I would quote the Prophet (PBUH) once again, ‘O Abbas! Are you not astonished at the love of Mughith for Barira and the hatred of Barira for Mughith? You could overlook this statement and dismiss it’s description of Mughith and Barira’s relationship as viewed by the Prophet (PBUH), but accusing someone of using the hadith out of context without any valid or significant evidence is uncalled for.

You have also overlooked the fact that Mughith himself was forced into the marriage, and his love for his wife did not deteriorate after her social status has alleviated. Barira on the other hand, decided to nullify her marriage and leave the father of her child, even after the Prophet (PBUH) advised her to return to her husband. Here you are arguing for people to make sacrifices for their marriages for the sake of Allah, yet, you appear to justify and accept Barira’s choice to demand a divorce based on ever-changing social status.

Lust and love are indeed confused and we also have the problem of attachments to dunya, a spouse is part of this dunya at the end of the day. Emotions are TOOLS, they are MEANS to and end but are not the end themselves.

Again, the article mentions two “loves”, one that is a combination of some extreme characteristics of lust and normal aspects of love, and another that purely exists for the sake of Allah. The word lust is never mentioned in the article, but rather the first love mentioned is grossly depicted as lust. I have to disagree when you say that a spouse is at end part of this dunya, especially, when Islam encourages us to marry those who are religious so that we could work together and save ourselves and our families from the hell-fire (A matter of the Hereafter). A spouse is not exclusively restricted to being part of this dunya for they play a major role in the hereafter as well. We cannot view everything on this world as tools meant to be exploited to achieve the end. The end is ultimately to Allah, who will Judge between His slaves.

We will not enter Paradise based solely on any “MEANS” of our own, but because of the Mercy of Allah. However, these “worldly tools”, are part of the equation on Judgment day. It’s our love, admiration, respect, and fear (Emotions) of God that will bring us closer to Allah. And how many will enter Paradise because of their love of Allah, their mercy to Mankind, or their respect for their parents (Emotions)?

In the article, the author says "That’s where the building starts: the building of a life, the building of your character, the building of sabr, patience, perseverance, and sacrifice. The building of selflessness. The building of love.And the building of your path back to Him."

Marriage is one of the experiences of life that could teach love, patience, selflessness, perseverance, and patience. It's an experience that harbors both positive and negative emotions, hence the reason God has NOT made Divorce haraam altogether. Marriage, just like divorce is but an “experience”, and like each experience in life we learn more about ourselves and increase or decrease some of our principles in life. To label marriage as the experience which encompasses all these characteristics and learned virtues is contradictory to how the world functions.

How exactly does this happen? The building of love? The building of your path back to him? Well those of us who have been married before can attest to the amount of sacrifice one makes in a marriage. You forsake SO MUCH in a marriage. The problem is when the forsaking happens for the other person INSTEAD OF ALLAH. Which was one of the main points of the article, and why I shared it. That is where we bring up the subject of unrealistic expectations, disappointments, chasing after a wordly perfection that does not exist etc which all lead to divorce

Sister, in order for someone to “forsake” something, they would have to leave behind something that is/was dear/valued to him or her. For example people give up their wealth, lives, and children for the Sake of Allah. They have Forsaken something dear to them FOR the Sake of Allah, and they ask nothing of anyone else but Allah. As for marriage?

What exactly has one forsaken when they love for the “Sake” of Allah? One is able to complete half their deen, One receives the love, care, respect, and protection of another human being. One is bestow with children by the Grace of Allah. You allocate/or sacrifice your resources, time, and energy ONLY to gain something at the same time. Both spouses make sacrifices in marriage to build a better functioning relationship, and contribute to each other (families) happiness. They have forsaken nothing by Singlehood (less desired than marriage) for Marriage (More valued socially and religiously). You have actually gained more than you have supposedly “forsaken”.

As I have mentioned before, unless one has forsaken their happiness, their family, their own personal goals, or their career/wealth for loving someone for the Sake of Allah, then they cannot simply attest that they have forsaken "SO MUCH”.

One does not require unrealistic expectations or worldly perfections that do not exist to get a divorce.We already know that a man will divorce a disobeying wife, and a wife will demand a divorce from a man that neither protects her nor provides for her. Marriage is but an experience filled with religious/worldly/personal EXPECTATIONS. One can not build the pillars of marriage solely on religious expectations, and ignore worldly and personal expectations, and vice versa. Marriage requires a balanced amount of give and take between these various forms of expectations between the spouses. Divorce services as a purpose when spouses can no longer balance out or acknowledge the existence of different forms of expectations.

[~Zaria~]

# cant access page 4 of this thread either : ( #

^ AMEEN sis MysticSoumeya : )

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

@ True Stranger,

What exactly are you trying to argue, because it seems you are nit picking at this point. Sister Zaria already made excellent points when it comes to Barira and Mughith, which you didn't seem to acknowledge...

Why did Mughith love Barirah so?

Was it her beauty?
Her piety?
Or that he did not wish to break a marriage?
And why did Barirah reject the love of Mughith?
His character?
Appearance?
Her love for another?

These questions are important to reflect upon. We don't know how Mughith was to Barira. Why did barira come to Aisha' (ra)for help in the first place?

Did you read back at the previous replies and watched the couple of clips provided in this thread regarding the word Love and linguistics? You do realize that the translation we are using of this hadith say "love and hate", and it is not like the love and hate the english language depicts. When I said it was being used out of context it was based on all of your posts on this thread. For example:

I would not be wrong to say Mughith was head over heels for Barriah. I'm truly amazed at people who think that the correct "love" that should exist in a marriage is one which requires a spouse to love their partner for the Sake of Allah.

^^that is why it is easy for me to say what i did ukhti, Because clearly you are only seeing based on the mainstream idea of love, which the Author of the article, Zaria, Scimi and Myself have mentioned and tried to explain in different ways. That s the purpose of this thread, to help others abandon and look beyond this warped idea of love. Nobody here is saying love doesn't exist or that husband and wife cannot love each other, if you take time to read through my posts, and not skim to find faults (as it appears you are doing), you will see that I clearly acknowledge that.

Another reason why I said it was out of context is because this speaks of the subject of slavery which is vital to understand if this story is to be used as an example. Do you understand what slavery in Islam is all about? Please explain. I would like to read your take on it and perhaps that way I can get a better understanding of where you are coming from ukhti :) Becauseif you don't understand (or if I'm missing understanding myself) then we are just wasting our breaths here and we will keep going back and forth on this story

I did NOT overlook that Mughith was heartbroken or upset over this. I admit i didn't mention that he may have been forced as well and that was because I was focusing on Barira's hatred towards him. You must understand that men and women do not love in the same way (I'm sure brothers reading this can attest). If she was good to him, obeyed him, served him and bore his child, of course he loved her. She was a good wife to him, however as I stated before, we do not know how Mughith was to her and why she wanted out to begin with. Read the entire story from top to bottom before you comment any further, and please, lets start a new thread on this story because it's sending this thread in a direction that doesn't really help the initial intention.

Marriage is one of the experiences of life that could teach love, patience, selflessness, perseverance, and patience. It's an experience that harbors both positive and negative emotions, hence the reason God has NOT made Divorce haraam altogether. Marriage, just like divorce is but an “experience”, and like each experience in life we learn more about ourselves and increase or decrease some of our principles in life. To label marriage as the experience which encompasses all these characteristics and learned virtues is contradictory to how the world functions.

I agree with most of this actually, however, I said Marriage is an experience. Not THE experience or the ONLY experience. Every experience in our lives is an oppottunity to build character. Marriage is the main one however, because it is one where male and female unite. Husband and wife complete each other.

Can you explain the law of duality and how it works?

Sister, in order for someone to “forsake” something, they would have to leave behind something that is/was dear/valued to him or her. For example people give up their wealth, lives, and children for the Sake of Allah. They have Forsaken something dear to them FOR the Sake of Allah, and they ask nothing of anyone else but Allah.

In the dictionary, the word forsake has this meaning:
for·sake (fôr-sk, fr-)
tr.v. for·sook (-sk), for·sak·en (-skn), for·sak·ing, for·sakes
1. To give up (something formerly held dear); renounce: forsook liquor.
2. To leave altogether; abandon: forsook Hollywood and returned to the legitimate stage.
forsake [fəˈseɪk]
vb -sakes, -saking, -sook [-ˈsʊk] -saken [-ˈseɪkən] (tr)
1. to abandon
2. to give up (something valued or enjoyed)

One does not have to forsake a child or their wealth or something so big in order for it to be something that one forsakes. Choosing to stay silent in a monet when we want to say something, is to forsake something valued to us, to dicipline ourselves. If a wife or husband chooses to stay quiet instead of arguing with their spouse, he/she is forsaking that for the sake of Allah. Same when a wife gets up early in the monring before everyone in the house to make something for everyone to eat by the time they wake, when she would rather get an hour more of sleep, that is to forsake a comfort. We could do them for each other yes, but going back to what I was saying initially, man is ungrateful, so why do it for a human, do it for Allah and surely you will be rewarded. Its these little things that up quite a bit The list is to large to begin here, and before I take time to do something like that, I would like to ask a personal question.

Have you ever been married? I ask because you made some good points about what one gains in a marriage, however, the way you say it leads me to believe that you haven't experienced the actual work in progress. If you are married and it's that easy for you then Alhamdullilah! May Allah continue to make your marriage easy. Ameen.

Although the way you wrote out the gains one gets with marriage is really nice, and sounds quite lovely. In my personal experience, and that of others around me who have had struggles in this area, that isn't reality, these things are not gained instantly by signing a nikah. It's a life long journey, together of sacrifices for the sake of Allah to gain all those wonderful things. When you sacrifice for the sake of Allah, do you not think he will give you more good in return? That's what it's all about. When you love for HIS sake and sacrifice for HIS sake, you gain reward, reward that no human can every give.

- cOsMiC

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

It is sad to see that whole Islamic discussion of "love and marriage" ignores the impact neurons, physiology, genes and hormones play in this process. We do not ignore these physical things when we study disease, but why do we ignore these things when we talk about love and marriage. There are biologically determined and biologically driven desires, with plethora of other enviornmental factors acting on them, which determine which woman falls for a man and what she looks for in him and what he says that'd turn her off and all the 'mind games/tests" he'd have to pass before they can be intimate and vice versa. And all of this does not follow any "logic." It's the way it is.

Discussion of "love" and "marriage" without reference to some biological and psychological principles is futile.

I think adding this subject in this thread could be beneficial, but could you elaborate a bit in what you want to address exactly? I get the idea, but would prefer some specifics so we can discuss further insha Allah :)

- cOsMiC

[Flame of Hope]

:sl:

I feel as though I should never have participated in this thread. +o(

[Silent Peace]

Sis cosmic,
Haters gonna hate, looks like some people got butthurt by your posts.

[Paprika]

Ai, why do we have to love or be loved, why can't we just live life, no complications, be good to your spouse and all is cool. Women overdo this whole love thing. Love is overrated.


Love is kindness. Nothing more, nothing less. Take it from the Paprika.

I am not from Pakistan.