When truth is suppressed only evil triumphs & only outlaws are free!

[جوري]

I received this email from a convert sister who doesn't write here much, given the recent direction of the forum and this is what she had to say of the thread that closed down to appease a pharisee with a really vile agenda.

''I read some troubling things in it before it was shut down though. I didn't like that they were suggesting that speaking out against homosexuality as a sin = hate. Or that we need to make Islam seem welcoming to homosexuals by hiding that fact. I don't know what's wrong with them but it does hurt my heart to hear a Muslim suggest something like that. I guess...Islam is starting to mean less and less to Muslims these days...but in the Quran I read, Allah (swt) completed this religion...

Sure. There are nicer ways to say homosexuality is a sin without being all aggressive about it but I don't think it's wise to dance around something so serious just to make them think Muslims aren't "harsh" towards gays when in fact it is something that is haraam in Islam... Paving the path to liberalism/kaffir beliefs with good intentions... ''

[dysphoricrocker]

I did not realise the thread was closed. But i second this notion. We should not try to appease the people who fall into haram, just to "not offend them". We must oppose them. Oppose not by means of physical opposition, but oppose their ideology and practices, let them know their practices and beliefs are indeed wrong and against human nature.

I had a huge argument with my friends regarding this topic and i was suprised at their reaction to the topic. Most of them just went "it does not affect me, why should i bother?" or "they are born that way, so let them be" or "it's not wrong to be homosexual, it's not their choice".

I believe it is not wrong to have thoughts of these kind i.e attraction to a person of the same gender but as long as you do not act upon it and try to avoid thinking of such things and seeking refuge in Allah then i think it's fine. But look what has happened now? They are demanding rights?! Trying to argue it's "okay" to be like that? It's "okay" to have explicit relations with their own gender?!

Sadly, more and more people have learnt to accept them. SubhanAllah. Remember what happened to the people of Lut. Fear Allah!

[Qurratul Ayn]

Remember what happened to the people of Lut. Fear Allah!

Exactly.

Same thing Muslims nowadays are accepting alcohol and having 'relationships' with the opposite gender... Astagfirullah

:cry:

May Allaah Ta'ala protects us all from the shaytaan

:salamext:

[glo]

There are nicer ways to say homosexuality is a sin without being all aggressive about it

Great stuff! I think that is the key point.

Of course there is nothing wrong with saying that according to one's beliefs and faith homosexuality is wrong/sinful etc.

But homosexual people are human beings too and deserve to be treated like any other of us.
They should not be singled out as evil and somehow subhuman. :hmm: Because they are not!
We may believe that their practices are sinful and wrong, and it may be right to point that out.
But we should never, ever preach hate against them.

Agreed?

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[dysphoricrocker]

But homosexual people are human beings too and deserve to be treated like any other of us

Only if they keep to themselves and not influence others to accept them and going around having large parades to tell the world they are homosexuals.

We may believe that their practices are sinful and wrong

It's not about what we believe. Practicing homosexuality goes against the laws of humanity. It has always been between a man and a woman, physically and biologically. Just like how we have teeth that are sharp and teeth that are straight. Why? We were created to feed on meat and plants.

But we should never, ever preach hate against them

I do not hate them. I understand they are humans too. But I hate the fact that they keep telling the world there is nothing wrong with their practices and belief and keep promoting it.

I apologise if i sound rude, i don't mean to be that way. I just have strong agendas against them :statisfie

[جوري]

I was assured the thread wasn't removed to appease the diatribe of the hypocrite rather to prevent a tirade so I wouldn't bother proving a point. Devils have their ways of mixing truth with lies to mislead, we shouldn't defend a faulty premise which was never subject to discourse from the get go. May Allah swt rid our societies real or virtual of such indviduals- especially with Ramadan coming up- that usually drives out all sorts of devils!

:w:

[dysphoricrocker]

I was assured the thread wasn't removed to appease the diatribe of the hypocrite rather to prevent a tirade so I wouldn't bother proving a point. Devils have their ways of mixing truth with lies to mislead, we shouldn't defend a faulty premise which was never subject to discourse from the get go. May Allah swt rid our societies real or virtual of such indviduals- especially with Ramadan coming up- that usually drives out all sorts of devils!

Your level of English is too profound for me. I always have trouble trying to grasp what you are saying to say in every post :heated:

[جوري]

Your level of English is too profound for me. I always have trouble trying to grasp what you are saying to say in every post :heated:

:sl:
No worries
The thread that was closed had nothing to do with 'hate' I went so far to ask one of them to prove to me the statements on 'hate' and she couldn't find any!
Hence, I didn't wish for you or anyone to have to defend a faulty premise which was neither the essence nor subject to discussion.
This woman has her own method of spreading falsehood with concocted provocations and under the guise of political correctness - I didn't wish for you to address it because that kind of endless nonsensical verbiage is what got the other thread closed. We veer from subject matter to address her diatribe and it all becomes meaningless.

[sofiap]

'Sadly, more and more people have learnt to accept them. SubhanAllah. Remember what happened to the people of Lut. Fear Allah!' Who took it upon Himself to punish? Allaah Himself. All we can do is to educate and protect ourselves and our families first, then to remind the truth to others those around you etc.. But i always say[,this is not to demotivate anyone,but rather to understand how hard a desire is]for all who have a desire,of any kind,even a halal one to understand the pull if you belive you only have just those types of desires.:p

We preach much but understand little. We need to be quiet within ourselves to understand the stress of such a feeling,and keep that in mind while we advised and remind...why ? Masha Allaah,firstly it will remind us that we should be Most thankful/grateful to Allaah for not testing us with fitna such as this,and will allow us to be humble to our reality,and then to be firm but merciful, not arrogance and prideful,as that is not the islamic way of handling situations. Little do we realise we are 'here' because of Who's Mercy? It is only Allaah that can help to remove desire and to overcome in whatever method He chooses fit for us,and we have to Trust Him. We are only reminders/advisor's.

For those who may currently be going through such a circumstances and even maybe reading this, Allaah is Most Compassionate and Merciful,ask for the desire to be removed with earnestly. And do seek what support, We cant understand why it happens,but accept it as your biggest trial. May Allaah make it easy for you so you may triumph. Prayer has such a strong influence on our lives,that if we realised we would be in prayer 247 in sha Allaah...May Allaah have mercy on us All,and guide us All with His truth and protect us and remind us from desires which are harmful.

[Muhammad]

:sl:

It should be clarified that the thread was not removed on the basis that we have a problem with saying homosexuality is a sin. That is a very big misunderstanding. It is different to post a story of a particular individual and comment on how disgusting it is. This does not serve much purpose or benefit. It is possible to speak of the seriousness of homosexuality without having to speak about specific individuals and mock them etc. If a Muslim were to come forward as holding such tendencies, then we would help them and explain, but we wouldn't start laughing at them or calling them filthy because this does not help.

If people wish to highlight the problems with homosexuality, the Islamic perspective, issues surrounding recent changes in the law etc. then that is fine - a discussion can be held and there is a purpose to it. I was actually going to post in that thread with a link to the following as an example:
http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...being-gay.html


If anyone feels that there is a problem with the forum or they disagree with the closing of any thread, they are most welcome to post in the Helpdesk thread and we will discuss the issue there. But it does not help to make assumptions and post them publically.


Also, we will not tolerate insulting members regardless of whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim. Everyone is free to voice their opinion on a forum and if you disagree with them, you should do so in the proper manner. If you feel their post is deserving of being deleted, please report it. If you feel there are ill-intentions, please let us know. But public attacks and insults are unacceptable and counterproductive.

Lastly, I have noticed some people are posting world affairs articles in the general section. Please avoid doing this as all of them should wait for approval in the world affairs section. This way, we can try to ensure that those which are approved are appropriate for discussion.

Jazakumullahu khayran.