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wafiya
08-05-2012, 11:47 PM
If someone was taking marijuana as a pain suppressor, would this still be a sin ... Someone I know has been diagnosed with a condition that causes crippling pain, and this is the only 'medication' that helps their pain.
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Hamza Asadullah
08-06-2012, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by wafiya
If someone was taking marijuana as a pain suppressor, would this still be a sin ... Someone I know has been diagnosed with a condition that causes crippling pain, and this is the only 'medication' that helps their pain.
Asalaamu Alaikum,

According to the Shari'ah, it is not permissible to use Marijuana. (Shaami vol.3 pg.239; HM Saeed)

Ummi Salma [Radhiallaahu anhu] reports that Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] has prohibited every intoxicant and everything which causes weakness to the body. (Ahmad Hadith26513)

In Mirqaat, it is mentioned that once a person came to Cairo and requested the Ulama to provide proof for Marijuana being Haraam. A gathering of the Ulama was conducted in order to address the issue. Hafiz Zainud-deen al-Iraqi (RA) presented the aforementioned Hadith as the proof and this was accepted by those present.

Imaam ibn Taymiyah (RA) and Imaam Iraqi (RA) have mentioned that there is Ijmaa (consensus) that Marijuana is Haraam. (Awnul Ma?bood vol.6 pg.509; Darul Hadith)

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Source: http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/...11170&act=view

Also see: Medical Marijuana use linked to cognitive impairment :

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop...RdmZAn04&gl=GB

To give up Marijuana please see the following :

Marijuana : Then will you not end it?

http://www.islamicboard.com/family-s...u-not-end.html
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:15 AM
But what if it was due for medical purposes only? this person doesn't use it to get 'high'....This is the only thing that makes their pain go away?
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 12:39 AM
Do they smoke it?
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:50 AM
I really don't know, we didn't go into much detail as in to how they take it. I understand why you asked that question..In order for you to take it as a 'cigarette' you must mixed tobacco with it which is obviously haraam and with that you will be damaging your lungs.
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 12:51 AM
nope... i'm asking because if he smokes it, you can be sure that he is getting high. With or without tobacco.

Real medical marijuana is ingested for the proper effect of pain relief... smoking it just get's you high... trust me, I know, I used grow the stuff.

Scimi
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:53 AM
If you mix it with food, you still will get high, or take it in any other form.
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:55 AM
But this is not my concern brother, I was wondering if it is a form of sin if you take it for medical reasons.
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:56 AM
Oh ok just read your comments, and I can't remove them, Sorry
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 12:57 AM
I can't remove my comment ... wow ... Im tired today, Sorry once again
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 12:59 AM
Ok, let me clarify for you when it can be medical and not get you high...

but first, you need to tell me how he gets a hold of it - because very few strains of cannabis have a medical pain relieving effect. If he's getting from a street dealer, you can be sure that it is badly cured, full off excess chemicals because it was grown in hydroponics, and wasn't flushed with de-ionised water for two weeks (and why would they? they don't care for the flush, and they don't care to spend and extra two weeks flushing when they could spend that time growing)...

The cannabis industry is not regulated - this is a fact.

So please answer my question, how does he get his cannabis, and what strain does he get?

Scimi

EDIT: I'm trying to help you reach a solution - I know a way where cannabis can be beneficial medically without getting you high you see :)
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 01:02 AM
he gets if of dealers .... strain? is that what kind of cannabis it is? I have no idea ... maybe if I can explain the smell to you, it smells like BO, really strong smell ... like i can smell it from across the room...its also a very dark green colour.
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Abz2000
08-06-2012, 01:16 AM
i believe it depends on whether it intoxicates or causes a person to act uncharacteristically - and most forms of preparation of marijuana intoxicate,

there are numerous ahadith which clarify this issue:

Wa'il al-Hadrami reported that Tariq b. Suwaid a-Ju'fi asked Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) about liquor.
He forbade (its use) and he expressed hatred that it should be prepared.
He (Tariq) said: I prepare it as a medicine,
whereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: It is no medicine, but an ailment.

Jabir narrated that the Messenger of Allah said; "Whatever intoxicates in a greater quantity is also unlawful in its smaller quantity." (Tirmidhi, Abu Dawood and Ibn Majah)
6) Umme Salmah narrates that the Messenger of Allah prohibited every intoxicant and Mufattir (anything which excites and irritates the mind, body and heart). (Abu Dawood)

anyone with previous experience with marijuana will be able to tell you that it also opens the floodgate for satan to whisper all sorts of twisted thoughts into the mind.

there are however methods of preparing it which take out all the intoxicants - some research has indicated that it can help with cancer although pharmaceutical companies and government scientists usually reject it - Allah a'lam - if research proves that it doesn't tamper with the mind - it may be ok :



remember the first ever prohibition given to man?

We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will;
but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

Quran 2:235-236

O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.

Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

Quran 5:90-91


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wafiya
08-06-2012, 01:26 AM
Thank you brother, I will pass this by them.
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 01:32 AM
Ok :) thank you for being honest, bear with me - this is going to be a long-ish explanation (but i'll try to be as brief as I can)

first, i need to explain what a strain is...

Cannabis comes in 4 varieties: Indica, Sativa, Ruderalis - and Skunk...

your friend smokes skunk - hence that very strong smell. Skunk was bred in the 60's by the CIA (believe it or not) in their MK-Ultra experiments (mind control)... they did this by breeding sativa strains with indica strains to maximise potency... this gave rise to the term - skunk. Some of the famous strains the CIA bred that are still available in coffeeshops (in Amsterdam) today are G-13, C99 and White Widow.

These are known as strains - or types of skunk. There are many, oh there are a lot, and most have been bred for pleasure, not pain.

So when I mention strain, I am trying to narrow down what strain of skunk he gets from his dealer. Now here's the tricky part... most dealers don't even know what they are selling. they'll say, "this is cheese mate - and it's the doggs danglies, take it" - cheese is the strain he "thinks" it is, it could be a kush, or a diesel, or another - your friend just won't know - because his dealer didn't grow it. As it passes hands, the name changes too - to suit the prospective clientele, you see?

This is what i mean by - no regulation...

Now, there are literally thousands of cannabis strains available from seed banks. There are even seed banks in the UK, that sell cannabis seeds - the one I used to go to was the london seed center.

The strains he smokes are not medicinal at all - they are commercial strains. Medical strains do not hit the streets, they are not a viable option in that sense - people like the stinky stuff.

So here is the deal, there are a few strains he can try, and he should ingest them... but even here there is a clause. Now I hope you are ready because here is it where it all gets a bit botanical.

the actual substance that takes effect on the brain and the body is called THC, (tetra-hydro-cannabinol), this breaks down into complex cannabinoids, such as CBD, CBN and CBG.

CBD = determines whether it affects the body and in what quanitities - if the CBD content is 1% or higher, it can be classed as a medical strain
CBN = determines whether it affects the mind state, and in what quantities - if the CBN content is higher than 0.5% it will rock your world
CBG = determines the length of the effect - if the CBG content is over 1%, the effect can last hours, dependant on tolerance levels...

these are just 3 cannabinoids I have mentioned, there are plenty more... but for the sake of educating you quickly, I will just concentrate on these 3 for now.

Most cannabis today has these complex cannbinoids in varying quantities.

Now, let's say your guy got tired of buying from street dealers and actually managed to grow his own, and did his research into what cannabis strains are good for pain relief: what he will find is that no matter what strain he looks at for pain relief, he will still find that the the CBN content is there - which means that no matter how he takes it, he gonna get high... but there is a way around this...

When it comes time to harvest the crop, he need to keep a close eye on the trichomes... ooh, new word - trichomes.

trichomes are only visible thru a microscope (most growshops do pocket microscopes and they are pretty affordable). Trichomes are like stalactites with a ball on top - as the cannabis becomes riper, the trichomes go from clear, to cloudy, then milky then amber...

in order to stop the CBN from developing further, the plant must be chopped before the trichomes become cloudy, basically he must chop the plant when the trichomes are clear - this minimizes the risk of getting high. Infact, cannabis with clear trichomes is know in the industry as dud-bud, because it hardly ever gets anyone high.

But here is the tricky part, and where experience in growing comes in handy - you have to know your plants well enough to know when to flush them with de-ionised water, to leech all the chemical nutrients out of it, or this poses a toxic hazard to the body and will do more hamr than good. You see, the three main chemicals that the plants need are Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium. no one wants those in their body, nuh uh... so the flush is necessary... the flush basically means replacing the water based feed with plain de-ionised water for two weeks to ensure all the nutes have been leached from the plant.

So let's say your friend managed to track down a good medical strain (for example - the White Russian), managed to set up his grow space and got all the equipment (this is not cheap) and the feeds (go organic) and managed to flower the white russian, and then catch it in flush as the trichomes were still clear, and then chopped it down - he will now have to dry it. Once dried (anything from 4 to 14 days dependant on temperature and humidity) he will now have to prepare it for medicinal use... now here is the really complicated part.

Real medical marijuana comes in oil form. he will have to do an ISO extraction, which involved using butane (highly inflammatory) to extrant the trichomes out of the cannabis, and then he will have to go thru the process to make it usable... if he can manage to go thru all this, and he ends up with some oil, he can now use this on his toast, or as a tincture (one drop is more than enough as it is ultra concentrated) ... this will provide very effective pain relief without affecting his mind.

Now, everything I have written here is a very brief summary of how to get true medical grade cannabis that does not get you high... but there is really, a lot more to it. I just touched on the main points. If I was to go into detail, I would approach a publishing house first.

If you have any questions, go ahead :)

Scimi
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wafiya
08-06-2012, 01:58 AM
Thank you very much brother, you've really explained the difference between medical and pleasure use of cannabis, I will pass this by my friend.

May Allah bless you for replying to me in such good detail.
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by Abz2000
there are however methods of preparing it which take out all the intoxicants
This is not true bro Abz... you cannot remove the intoxicants, you can only curb the progress of their potency, as I have mentioned above.

Scimi

EDIT: Sis wafiya, as you can see, making medical marijuana that is not toxic in the sense that it will affect a persons frame of mind, is a very long winded process (takes months) and it begs the question - is it worth it? Worth the risk? Worth the time? The effort? the cost? I really do not think so...

Also, the modern, western definition of "toxic" is different to the Islamic definition of "toxic". So things can get very confusing - fast. I hope this helps.
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 03:22 AM
Modern western definition of "toxic"

1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison: a toxic condition; toxic hepatitis.
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous: food preservatives that are toxic in concentrated amounts; a dump for toxic industrial wastes. See Synonyms at poisonous.

n.A toxic chemical or other substance.

toxic [ˈtɒksɪk]adj1. of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or poison; poisonous
2. (Medicine / Pathology) harmful or deadly[from medical Latin toxicus, from Latin toxicum poison, from Greek toxikon (pharmakon) (poison) used on arrows, from toxon arrow]
toxically adv

toxic (tksk)1. Relating to or caused by a toxin.
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous.

Adj. 1. toxic - of or relating to or caused by a toxin or poison; "suffering from exposure to toxic substances"harmful - causing or capable of causing harm; "too much sun is harmful to the skin"; "harmful effects of smoking"

unhealthful - detrimental to good health; "unhealthful air pollution"; "unhealthful conditions in old apartments with peeling lead-based paint"

noxious - injurious to physical or mental health; "noxious chemical wastes"; "noxious ideas"
atoxic, nontoxic - not producing or resulting from poison










Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxic


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _


In Islam, anything that takes a person out of their normal frame of mind, is considered toxic... this the difference.

it is interesting to note that the modern western world does not consider cannabis to be a toxic substance. But in Islam, the definition is clear - it is unlawful.

Scimi
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Scimitar
08-06-2012, 03:58 AM
I think this has been covered before but I just tracked back to a previous post of mine in the wup-forum, I'll post here:

Ibn Hajar Al-Makki rahmatullahi alaihe narrates from some scholars that they are 120 worldly and religious detriments in consuming hashish (Cannabis). Not 10, not 20, but 120 harmful things occur by the consumption of drugs.

The great Ibn-e-Seena says that large amounts of it dries up semen (The fluid that carries sperm thus rendering him incapable of passion in sexual intercourse).

Ibn-ul-Bitaar says: A group of people used it (drugs) and they became mentally deranged (insane).

Ibn-e-Taymiyyah says: All the faults, blemishes, bad things in khamr (wine) are present in hashish and more. Because the majority of faults in khamr effect religion, but hashish effects to a great extent both religion and body. Thereafter Sheikh Taymiyyah describes its faults: -

1) From a religious point of view it is as intoxicating as wine, it destroys the mind, causes forgetfulness, causes to reveal secrets, destroys shame, incubates dissimation, quells self respects, obliterates intelligence, prevents salaah and instigates towards Haraam, forbidden things.

2) From a physical aspect it deteriorates the mind, cuts off the means for offspring, brings about leprosy, sickness, feverish shivers, bad breath, loss of eyebrows and teeth, warming of blood, tuberculosis, damages intestines, destroys body organs, punctures the liver, burns the stomach and weakens eyesight amongst other things.The point all botanists have unanimously agreed upon is that hashish (cannabis) is an intoxicant, one of these In short, everything, which obstructs a person from Zikr-ullah and salaah, is haraam like wine.

In short, everything, which obstructs a person from Zikr-ullah and salaah, is haraam like wine. Allah Ta’ala states in the Holy Qur’aan:

And Allah has forbidden on to you the ‘khabaith’ i.e. repulsive, wicked and evil things. What could be more evil then the thing which impairs the faculties of thought and perception in the mind? Dailamah Al-Humairee states: I asked the Holy Prophet , ‘O Messenger of Allah (pbuh), Verily we are in a cold land, and we have to work hard therein, and we prepare wine from this wheat which gives as strength in our works and in the chill of our cities.’

He asked,-"does it intoxicate?"

"yes"
he replied.

He said, ‘Give it up.’

I said, ‘Verily the people can not give it up.’

He said, ‘If they do not give it up, fight with them.’ (Abu Dawood)

This Hadith explains to us the principle cause of what is haraam. Chiefly, if it intoxicates it is haraam. The very same reason and cause is to be found in drugs. Some might say that all drugs do not intoxicate, But those drugs have been classed as Muftir and are still outlawed by Islamic jurispudence, many scholars have agreed with this, if not all. The very same reason and cause is to be found in drugs. Some might say that all drugs do not intoxicate, that drugs like heroin and hashish are only depressants which slackens and weakens the mind. The answer to this is in the following Hadith:

It has been narrated by Umme-Salmah, she states: The Prophet prohibited every intoxicant and muftir (every substance which slackens the mind).

Imam Zarakshee notes in his kitab:
The scholars have stated that muftir is everything that causes slackness. He then states: The Hadith (which has been mentioned above) particularly proves the prohibition of hashish because if it is not regarded as an intoxicant if definitely comes under the definition of ‘muftir’ (substance which causes drowsiness and the weakening of the mind etc.). Moving on, the unanimity of the ummah on the prohibition of narcotics is also narrated from many scholars.

Imaam Zarakshee states:
The consensus of the Ummah is narrated from several scholars in the prohibition of hashish; scholars include Qiraafi and ibn-e-Taymiyyah. And if that was not enough, Ibn-e-Taymiyyah has further said: Whosoever regards it lawful has become kafir.


Interesting eh? So, the study of the word "intoxication", in Islam - led me to find out that cannabis is regarded as Muftir - though not an intoxicant - it is still haraam on the basis that it causes one to slacken...

Also, remember that whilst under the influence, No salah is accepted for 40 days past the time of influence - unless one severely repents his/her actions, in which case they are forgiven.

Cannabis is forbidden according to the Muslim scholars. So anybody who says that it is lawful is mistaken and his opinion has no weight in Sharia because it goes against the Sharia evidence that states that everything that causes drunkenness is forbidden. Actually this herb was mentioned by Muslim scholars in the past.

Ibn Hajar al-Haitemy mentioned it in his book: "Al-Fatawa al-Kubra".

He reported from Ibn al-Baytar that he said: 'The kind of cannabis which I saw was only in Egypt where they grow it in the fields and which is very intoxicating. So, when the person eats a little bit of it he gets drunk. Some people used it and it caused them to lose their sense and it can even cause death' .So, it is forbidden.Allah knows best."

"Drunkenness" - a root word in arabic which covers the state of overt relaxation, loss of reaction time, psynapse responses slowing down, a state of euphoria, a feeling of enlightenment from it, temporary feelings of security etc...

Something that hasn't been covered here is the type of cannabis available and its effects. Let me shed some light on this subject.

Cannabis Indica: known to make a person "stoned" so they just stare and glare whilst feeling lost - this leads to euphoria where the person using cannabis feels like they are being enlightened, but when asked what that enlightenment was - they just cannot answer... this is a trick of the cannabis to fool your mind into beleiveing that you have been "enlightened".. I know, I've smoked indica enough to know this.

Indica cannabis has been used in India for centuries for stomach problems - by eating it.

Indica cannabis, when eaten or smoked - makes you "swoon". FACT! If you're a toker, you cannot disagree...

Indica cannabis lowers the sperm count and weakens the limbs, especially the legs - FACT.

Indica cannabis leads to social isolation from the majority and fools you into thinking that you are still sociable - even though you are now socialising with a select few people with the same habit as you ( with a minority ). FACT.

Smoking Indica cannabis promotes laziness within the human psyche and makes one liable to neglect his/her duties. FACT.


There's so much more here I can delve into with regards to indica - but I want to move onto Sativa now.

So, There' is also Cannabis Sativa: found on equatorial regions and is an annual not a perrenial plant like indica, meaning a cropcomes only once a year.

Cannabis Sativa leads to all sorts of hypertension issues, and has been reported in many many cases to have a split/personality effect on the smoker of sativa cannabis. FACT.

Sativa cannabis leads to massive euphoric highs which throw your brains psynapse response into overdrive - making it hard to rationalise any thought through the barrage of thoughts you are having to sort through - people under this condition find it highly entertaining, and attribute this feeling to euphoria, or dream world state. Been there done that.

Sativa also has another dark secret. It has been used to make people go mad. Out of their senses, talking irrationally and speaking of halucinations at the most peaked times. It confuses the ability to rationalise as the person under the influence of Sativa cannabis - thinks they are being enlightened in a spiritual sense, when actually their mind is fertile ground for Shaytaan to come and play with his ideas... subtle ideas which permeate your ability to rationalise and puts contradiction in there, making you think you have gained enlightenment... When really all it has done is promote confusion.

Sativa is also used in the manufacture of the anti-cancer drug, Sativex.


.....

Cannabis: SKUNK

Skunk was invented in the 60's throught the CIA's MKUltra experiments, where they created hybrid indica/sativa strains of exponential strength. Very evil. They mixed the polar opposites of the cannabis into one strain. GM anyone?

Strains such as the infamous "G13 haze" notice the word haze? what could that mean? you already know don't you...

Strains such as C99 which is used in breeding projects by the likes of Arjan from the Green House Seed Co. in Amsterdam... Oh yes, Amsterdam... I'm quite well know there for my organic grows of yester-decade... AHA! This leads to another very important point.

Most of the cannabis you smoke nowadays is grown hydroponically (soil less mediums, water based culture) and are fed specially formulated plant feed which give off ridiculously large yields from a single plant - the growers have to leech/flush their plants for a full 2 weeks before cropping, with PH balanced water to the ration of 3parts water to 1 part soil. The reason this needs to be done is to get all the excess salts and harmful chemicals (Nitrogen Phoshorous and Potassium as well as others) out of the plant, to make it ready for smoking... But no commercial farmer is gonna flush their plants coz it means an extra 2 weeks of everything... Don't beleive me? Go and talk to the coffeshop owners in Adam city... they'll tell you the same thing.


So consider this, what you are smoking will make you cough - why? coz it is full of chemicals which have not been flushed - and all that nastiness (carcinogenics included) end up in your respiratory system... Still wanna smoke? Really?

So, what can we deduce from the above observations of long time cannabis users? I don't need to answer that. I want you to think of the physical harm of any smoke - by conducting a simple experiment:

Take a joint, or cigarrette - light it and hold a test tube over it - the smoke will fill up the test tube and leave a residue of TAR in there... let the whole joint/cigareete smoke out and then see how much tar is left in that test tube. WOW. That was only one joint.

Now think of that Tar in your lungs, blocking up the porous fibres which make breathing a pleasurable experience, and you will realise that it is indeed haram for you. As a smoker, can you say the Adhaan in one breath? What no? I'm not surprised - you've compromised your ability to breathe properly... what will happen if you had to answer the call to jihaad but was told by an elder that you would be more of a hindrance on the field than a help - due to your stamina levels being severely low? Think about that...


As Muslims, we know that our bodies are on loan to us from Allah (SWT) and that fatefully terrible day of Yawn al Qiyaamah, HE will ask us how we respected the body HE loaned to us... how will you answer?


....


The harms of cannabis in modern day far outweigh the benefits of the herb and this is clear to see. Anyone arguing that cannabis is halal or makruh need to re-think why they claim it is so - after reading the above.

Scimi

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