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Zobia
09-12-2012, 01:49 AM
Salam alaikum,

You know the verse in surah nisa that states that Allah will not forgive that partners should be set up with Him but He forgives what is besides that

I'm lost on this subject of shirk bcs i've seen it being said if one committs shirk in their lifetime and they repent before death inshallah Allah will forgive but if a person dies with it unrepented, they are surely in the hellfire for eternity.

Thats the interpretation i've heard regarding this ayah but the ayah itself clearly states "He forgives what is BESIDES that", doesnt that mean EVERYTHING is forgivable BUT shirk? because it states "what is BESIDES that" meaning EVERYTHING BESIDES shirk. meaning shirk potentially isnt forgivable?

How do the scholars come to the intepretation that the ayah means if we repent from shirk b4 death we are forgiven and if we dont, hellfire is destined for us when the ayah states what is BESIDES that indicating everything is forgivable BUT shirk?

Could someone explain?
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Alpha Dude
09-12-2012, 06:21 AM
Wa alaykum salam,

Please relax, what you understand about shirk being unforgivable unless repented for is correct.

Scholars don't just look at one verse in isolation and reach conclusions based on that. They look at the context, they look at other verses, the circumstance the verse was revealed under and much more than I could ever realise and not to mention the sayings of the Prophet sallalahu alaihe wassalam.

There is a verse, 39:53:

Say: ‘O ‘Ibaadi (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allaah, verily, Allaah forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful
All sins are forgiven. There is no mention of shirk. So by reading this verse on its own, you'd think even shirk was forgiven without repentance? That's not right, of course. Like I said, it's not right to look at one verse in isolation and that too in English and reach your own conclusion. There is a lot of work involved and scholars have been doing work on this front for several centuries so when they reach a conclusion on a matter, just trust that it is likely to be after comprehensive study. They wouldn't have somehow 'missed' the one verse your brought up when they reached the conclusion that shirk is forgiven if repented for.
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Zobia
09-12-2012, 12:31 PM
oh, i never thought that scholars looked at other verses as well in order to reach a conclusion. but its just the part where it says "what is besides that" literally doesnt that mean everything BESIDES shirk..? but then there are other verses in the qu'ran where it says Allah will forgive.. i know there is no contradiction bcs its the quran and the quran doesnt have contradictions subhanallah, but i cannot understand shirk.. in parts of the quran its forgivable but then the ayah in sura nisa says everything is forgivable BUT shirk.. i dont know.
But there are stories of the sahabah i think who were mushrik b4 accepting islam.. are all the sahaba promised paradise? But how can that mean that if a MUSLIM ever did shirk they'd be forgiven? Bcs the sahabah i dont think were muslim whilst doing shirk; they accepted islam afterwards, but what if a muslim born into a muslim family ever committed shirk, isnt it different for them bcs they were born into a muslim family hence they were already muslim? Doesnt the forgiveness just apply to the non muslims who committ shirk then accept islam and not for the people who committed shirk whilst being believers?
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Muwaahid
09-12-2012, 04:20 PM
bismillahirRahmaanirRaheem

Perhaps it would benefit you if you read usoolu thalaatha, and qawaa'idul arbah which is present on this site it clearly explains tawheed and that.which opposes it shirk. Things become distinctively clear by their opposites. As for your comprehension of the verse it is as the brother mentioned previously no verse is looked at in isolation of other verses and authentic.ahadeeth. but rather all is looked at collectively by the scholars to derive an islaamic verdict. Also there are a number of other books that can explain to.you the hukm (ruling) on the one who falls into.shirk.
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Zobia
09-14-2012, 12:18 AM
Could you give me a link to both usoolu thalaatha and qawaa'idul arbah so i can read them. Also what do those titles mean? I've never heard them before.

Jazakallah
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Muwaahid
10-07-2012, 07:14 AM
Originally Posted by Zobia
Could you give me a link to both usoolu thalaatha and qawaa'idul arbah so i can read them. Also what do those titles mean? I've never heard them before.

Jazakallah
Both of these books are on this site under the section of Aqeedah as far as the meanings of the two books, usoolu thalaatha means the three fundamental principles. and qawaa'idul arba means the 4 principles, the four principles deals with what is tawheed and what is shirk and how belief in ruboobiyyah alone isnt sufficient to be a muslim cause everyone believes in Allah's Ruboobiyyah even the mushrikeen. the second principle deals with refuting those who believe that they can curry favor with Allah through placing a wasaa'it [intercessor] between them and Allah whether dead or alive. the third principle basically informs us all that al-kufr millatun waahidah" disbelief is one religion.the fourth principle deals with every successive generation of the mushrikeen after the prophet [alayhi salam] were worse in their shirk because they called upon other than Allah in times of fear and safety whereas the first mushrikeen only called upon Allah in times of fear. of course there is a lot of evidence to back all these principles up, it should actually be memorised as well as usoolu thalaatha
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Zobia
10-12-2012, 12:17 AM
salam alaikum,

Jazakallah Khairan; may Allah reward you!
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Abdullaah
10-14-2012, 02:55 AM
salaamun alaikum,

This is a good question. Some people may read one ayah and from it just make conclusion that is not correct. Shirk is indeed forgivable by Allaah swt but this depends on repentance from the person from shirk.

Allaah says in Surah Al maidah concerning the christians who have worshipped eesaa a.s and said that eesaa a.s is actually God(Allaah). This is a lie and shirk.

Sahih International
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.

ayah72 surah al maidah

and the next ayah is also about the christians who say God is one of three. They have come up with a big lie and shirk claiming Allaah is one of the three instead of saying God is ONE.

ayah 73
Sahih International
They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.


after Allaah exposed their errors, lies and shirk/kufr then in the following ayah Allaah gives them hope of forgiveness even from shirk and kufr. And Allaah encourages them to repent to Him alone from all the lies, shirk and kufr.

ayah 74.
Sahih International
So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.


This is indeed enough evidence that Allah is not only forgiving of shirk provided the one who committed repented and sought forgiveness but also encourages the committer of shirk to seek the forgiveness of Allah alone because He swt is the most forgiving and most merciful.

but to add another two ayahs even though the ayahs are plenty to prove Allaah forgives even shirk but the condition for the committer of shirk is that he/she MUST repent and ask for forgiveness from Allaah before death. If someone dies in a state of shirk without having repented from the shirk, then He/she will NOT get forgiveness from shirk that is because forgiveness from shirk is conditional upon repentance and seeking forgiveness from shirk before death comes(before the soul reaches the throat in death) or before the end of the world when the sun rises from the place it sets. As for other lesser sins such as stealing etc then Allaah will if He will forgive even without repentance before death for whomever He wills.

The other ayah is in surah AlFurqan towards the end.
ayah 68 surah 25

Sahih International
And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.
ayah 69
Multiplied for him is the punishment on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein humiliated
ayah70.
Except for those who repent, believe and do righteous work. For them Allah will replace their evil deeds with good. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

so in essence even if people invoke another deity(shirk) then they forgiveness and repent a sincere repentance from even shirk then Allaah will forgive and exchange them their sins with good deeds. Look at the mercy of Allaah its truly amazing.


Lastly from surah Az zumar

ayah 53 surah 39

Sahih International
Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."

This ayah clears up any misunderstanding because Allaah forgives ALL sins even shirk BUT, because this includes shirk and even kufr then condition upon forgiveness of shirk is still there as Allaah goes on to say in the following ayahs.

ayah 54.
Sahih International
And return [in repentance] to your Lord and submit to Him before the punishment comes upon you; then you will not be helped.

and the ayahs after this ayah continue to stress on the need for repentance. So, with the Quran and Sunnah you have to compile all the information and then make a conclusion otherwise you will have a misunderstanding. Wallaahu a'lam.







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Muhaba
10-18-2012, 10:51 AM
Of course Allah will forgive shirk if you repent sincerely and refrain from repeating the sin. there are many proofs for this, but the only one that comes to mind now are the verses from Surah Nuh.

The nation of Nuh Alaihi Assalaam were idolators. The following are the words of Nuh Alaihi Assalaam. He told them to seek forgiveness and Allah would forgive them their sins. if shirk wasn't going to be forgiven with repentance, there would be no pint in preaching to them.

71:8 - to end of chapter:

Then I invited them publicly.
Then I announced to them and [also] confided to them secretly
And said, 'Ask forgiveness of your Lord. Indeed, He is ever a Perpetual Forgiver.
He will send [rain from] the sky upon you in [continuing] showers
And give you increase in wealth and children and provide for you gardens and provide for you rivers.

What is [the matter] with you that you do not attribute to Allah [due] grandeur

While He has created you in stages?

Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers

And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?

And Allah has caused you to grow from the earth a [progressive] growth.

Then He will return you into it and extract you [another] extraction.

And Allah has made for you the earth an expanse

That you may follow therein roads of passage.' "

Noah said, "My Lord, indeed they have disobeyed me and followed him whose wealth and children will not increase him except in loss.

And they conspired an immense conspiracy.
And said, 'Never leave your gods and never leave Wadd or Suwa' or Yaghuth and Ya'uq and Nasr.

And already they have misled many. And, [my Lord], do not increase the wrongdoers except in error."

Because of their sins they were drowned and put into the Fire, and they found not for themselves besides Allah [any] helpers.

And Noah said, "My Lord, do not leave upon the earth from among the disbelievers an inhabitant.

Indeed, if You leave them, they will mislead Your servants and not beget except [every] wicked one and [confirmed] disbeliever.

My Lord, forgive me and my parents and whoever enters my house a believer and the believing men and believing women. And do not increase the wrongdoers except in destruction."


Read the whole surah at http://www.quran.com
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Zobia
10-26-2012, 12:28 AM
@writer: jazakallah khairan, that is eye opening; i know you said there are many proofs, I dont want you to tell me them but can you just briefly list them and I'll research them inshallah, also does this forgiveness of shirk apply to a MUSLIM too? Say if a muslim committed shirk and then they were to repent could even THEY be forgiven despite them having been a muslim and done shirk?
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greenhill
07-02-2013, 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Zobia
Say if a muslim committed shirk and then they were to repent could even THEY be forgiven despite them having been a muslim and done shirk?
To forgive or not to forgive is Allah's domain. We only have to consider the sincerity of our actions and to believe that He is the Most Merciful. Don't create confusion for yourself with regards to making things 'absolute'.

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