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Tyrion
10-27-2012, 06:24 AM
So, it's always struck me as odd how some people who claim music is forbidden still listen to nasheeds. How would you guys consider them different from music? (aside from the fact that they're mostly religious in nature, and usually have no instruments). Many of the arguments I've heard about the "evils" of music (which I don't agree with, as I'm sure you've gathered by now) seem to center around music's apparent ability to distract and affect emotions, but don't nasheeds accomplish essentially the same thing? Even if you enjoy the spiritual nature of the lyrics, aren't you also enjoying the actual "music" behind them? It sometimes feels as if those who don't like music have used nasheeds as a loophole of sorts, and it strikes me as somewhat hypocritical... I'm curious to hear what you guys think about it.
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islamica
10-27-2012, 07:06 AM
Music is clearly prohibited as mentioned by the hadith below, you don't even need scholar's fatwas to know this much. Any nasheeds accompanied by Music is also in the same category. Putting an Islamic spin on it doesn't make it any more halal. This goes for all "islamic" singers out there who use music. Only instrument allowed in Islam is the duff/daff , a one sided drum. That too was for the purpose of either war, call people for important announcement or special events, such as eid and weddings in which cases usually the the past time was with the women and children. Today scholars says nasheeds with music not allowed but with daff is ok. Only thing of advice then given in this matter is that one does not busy themselves with this so much as to neglect their religious and other duties.


Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

"There will be people of my Community who will hold fornication, silk, wine, and musical instruments to be lawful'' (Bukhaari)

This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “[they] permit” which clearly indicates that the things mentioned, including musical instruments, are haraam according to sharee’ah, but those people will permit them. The second is the fact that musical instruments are mentioned alongside things which are definitely known to be haraam, i.e., zinaa and alcohol: if they (musical instruments) were not haraam, why would they be mentioned alongside these things? (adapted from al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 1/140-141)


Women are more affected by songs, musical tunes and the meanings of their words than any one else. Listening to songs may lead a girl to fall in love with the singer, to the degree that his songs and pictures are never far away from her mind.Songs cultivate hypocrisy in one's heart just like grains grow and thrive in the presence of water, as Ibn Mas`ood said. Songs and Qur'aan can never co-exist in a believer's heart because of their contradictory nature. The Qur'aan enjoins us not to follow our lusts, or the footsteps of Satan and to stick, instead, to virtuousness. As for songs, they invite us to the opposite.

Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Song makes hypocrisy grow in the heart as water does herbage” (Sunan al-Bayhaqi).

Ruling on Music, Singing, Dancing
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/5000

When is it permissible to beat the daff?
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/20406

The ruling on Islamic nasheeds
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/11563
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Tyrion
10-27-2012, 07:22 AM
^Err, please don't post here with links and copy/pastes of rulings. I've heard it all before. Trust that I've come to my own decision after much research and thought. I'd appreciate it if we could just focus on the question for now.
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Alpha Dude
10-27-2012, 07:34 AM
The crux of your argument is that those who understand that music is prohibited, believe so due to 'music's apparent ability to distract and affect emotions'.

That may be true for some people and by some stretch, you would be right that they are showing a kind of double standard (although, it could be argued that since the human voice is not haram, there is no reason to limit any positive influence of it).

However, I would assume most consider music prohibited due to textual evidence (you disagree on that, of course, but for argument's sake, this is what people who hold music haram predominantly believe). In which case, your argument of double standards is moot.
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Tyrion
10-27-2012, 07:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
The crux of your argument is that those who understand that music is prohibited, believe so due to 'music's apparent ability to distract and affect emotions'.

That may be true for some people and by some stretch, you would be right that they are showing a kind of double standard (although, it could be argued that since the human voice is not haram, there is no reason to limit any positive influence of it).

However, I would assume most consider music prohibited due to textual evidence (you disagree on that, of course, but for argument's sake, this is what people who hold music haram predominantly believe). In which case, your argument of double standards is moot.
Ah, I should have been more clear. I'm not trying to say that most people use those reasons as their primary argument/evidence, but it seems to me that in many cases it's usually those people who (on top of their argument that it's textually supported) use arguments pertaining to music's affects on people to strengthen and defend their position. I'm just curious how those people can also justify nasheeds.
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piXie
10-27-2012, 11:18 AM
I'm just curious how those people can also justify nasheeds.
Most of the nasheeds today do not meet the conditions of permissibility, but those people have somehow justified it, just as other people have somehow justified music, despite the texts stating its impermissible. Most of us justify ourselves, its a bad sad and mad state of affairs. :hmm:

(Iblees) said, “My Lord, because You have put me in error, I will surely make (disobedience) fair seeming to them on earth, and I will mislead them all, Except those who are your sincere slaves” [15:39-40]

We all need to sincerely check ourselves with the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allaah help and guide us all. Aameen.
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M.I.A.
10-27-2012, 11:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
So, it's always struck me as odd how some people who claim music is forbidden still listen to nasheeds. How would you guys consider them different from music? (aside from the fact that they're mostly religious in nature, and usually have no instruments). Many of the arguments I've heard about the "evils" of music (which I don't agree with, as I'm sure you've gathered by now) seem to center around music's apparent ability to distract and affect emotions, but don't nasheeds accomplish essentially the same thing? Even if you enjoy the spiritual nature of the lyrics, aren't you also enjoying the actual "music" behind them? It sometimes feels as if those who don't like music have used nasheeds as a loophole of sorts, and it strikes me as somewhat hypocritical... I'm curious to hear what you guys think about it.
how long have you been on the internet?

most posts want me to pick up and throw my laptop out the window. so that musical argument is kinda flawed, everything incites emotional response.

i mean you could definitely choose not to participate in music or anything, haram?

but you still have to convince them they are wrong.


by your argument its not only music that has that effect, anything that appeals to you has more chance of being followed.. unless you deny yourself or just generally have a better nature than the rest of us.
format_quote Originally Posted by islamica
"There will be people of my Community who will hold fornication, silk, wine, and musical instruments to be lawful'' (Bukhaari)

This hadeeth indicates in two ways that musical instruments and enjoyment of listening to music are haraam. The first is the fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “[they] permit” which clearly indicates that the things mentioned, including musical instruments, are haraam according to sharee’ah, but those people will permit them. The second is the fact that musical instruments are mentioned alongside things which are definitely known to be haraam, i.e., zinaa and alcohol: if they (musical instruments) were not haraam, why would they be mentioned alongside these things? (adapted from al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 1/140-141)
yes but it also says MY COMMUNITY.

i know hadiths are an exact science.. i mean you took a line and made it a paragraph.

it probably came from a conversation longer than a page.


have fun with that.

...sure it may convey a message that was already in the message (the quran) but i guess its a case of credible sources and there opinions.

i mean im sure somebody has raised a finger and quoted you in the past.

...not always to your liking.

maybe it was different in the past.
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Hulk
10-27-2012, 11:55 AM
Please first come to an agreement to a definition of music.
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Muwaahid
10-27-2012, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
^Err, please don't post here with links and copy/pastes of rulings. I've heard it all before. Trust that I've come to my own decision after much research and thought. I'd appreciate it if we could just focus on the question for now.

since everyone will be exposed to what you have posted, then those links and copy pasted materials should be posted as well because people need clarity in their religion. this isnt just a response to your question posted here but many people read this site, would you then want people to go astray because they responded to your request in a manner that doesnt suit you? No disrespect intended, but we really need to be aware of what we post and consider the consequences or evil effects it may have on other muslims and the doubts it may cause or spread to new muslims or just muslims struggling with their religion. You know?
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sister herb
10-27-2012, 03:49 PM
Salam alaykum

I listen both music and nasheeds and don´t see anything bad. Also kind of discussions are endless in these kind of forums.

:heated:

Do we really need new one again?
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joyous fairy
10-27-2012, 04:44 PM
Assalam alaykum,

I think some people look towards the message in the music, or the lyrics of the song/nasheed. Most popular music is filled with lyrics that are completely unislamic. but nasheeds have good messages in them, so people would see then as a good thing.

Another reason might be because some people find it hard to stay away from music.. So wouldn't it be better to listen to nasheeds rather than modern popular songs that are filled with horrible lyrics?
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~Zaria~
10-27-2012, 05:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
^Err, please don't post here with links and copy/pastes of rulings. I've heard it all before. Trust that I've come to my own decision after much research and thought. I'd appreciate it if we could just focus on the question for now.
Assalamu-alaikum,

MashaAllah, sis islamica's post clearly answers your question, and is well referenced from Quraan and Sunnah.
Which should mean that this discussion should end thereafter.

What else do we need?

If we are the people of 'Islam' - which means to 'submit to the will of Allah', then our hearts should be satisfied as soon as we realise the commands of Allah and His Nabi (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).

Our opinions do not matter in such topics.

If some people wish to listen to nasheeds with music - after knowing the impermissibility of this - then, they will be accountable for their deeds.
And you, for yours.

Let us be concerned by our own actions and our own relationship with our Rabb.

And ask ourselves why is it so hard for us to completely SUBMIT to His will?
Are we prepared to be ruled by our nafs.....for pleasures that are so short lived?

The reward of submission are so much greater!

May Allah (subhanawataála) grant us hidayat so that we all become people of Islam - in its true sense.
Ameen.


:wa:
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sister herb
10-27-2012, 05:46 PM
Salam alaykum

what about music itself without singing? No words.

Like from Vivaldi:
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~Zaria~
10-27-2012, 06:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Salam alaykum

what about music itself without singing? No words.

Like from Vivaldi:
Wa-alaikumsalam ukthi,

Your answers lie in the following ahadith, insha Allah:

Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik Al Ashari that he heard the Prophet saying,
"From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
[Sahih Al-Bukhari]


Abu Malik al-Ash’ari (Allah be pleased with him) narrates a similar type of Hadith, but a different wording. He reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said:
“Soon there will be people from my Ummah who will consume alcohol, they will change its name (by regarding it permissible.), on there heads will be instruments of music and singing. Allah will make the ground swallow them up, and turn them into monkeys and swine” (Sahih Ibn Hibban & Sunan Ibn Majah, with a sound chain of narration).

Hadhrat Ali Bin Abi Taalib (radhiyallahu anhu) narrates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said:
"When my Ummah indulges in fifteen misdeeds, calamities will settle on them. Among these are singing girls and musical instruments." (Tirmizi)

Hadhrat Naafi' (radhiyallahu anhu) narrates:
"Once when Hadhrat Abdullah Bin Umar (radhiyallahu anhu) heard the sound of a shepherd's flute, he placed his fingers in both ears (to block the sound of the music), and he diverted his mount from that path. (As they rode on), he would say: 'O Naafi', can you still hear (the sound)?' I would say: 'Yes.' He would then continue riding. only when I said: 'I can no longer hear it', did he remove his fingers from his ears. Then he returned to the road. He then said: 'I saw Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) doing like this when he had heard the flute of a shepherd."
(Ahmad and Abu Dawood)

Abu Umama (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give peace) said:
“Allah Mighty and Majestic sent me as a guidance and mercy to believers and commanded me to do away with musical instruments, flutes, strings, crucifixes, and the affairs of the pre-Islamic period of ignorance” (Musnad Ahmad & Abu Dawud Tayalisi).

Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiyallahu anhu) narrates that Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said:
"The bell is among the musical instruments of shaitaan."
(Abu Dawood)


There are many other narrations, of which I am unsure of their authenticity, so I have not included them.

However, I think these are enough to prove that musical instruments are impermissible in Islam (with the exception of the duff, in the cases mentioned above).


:wa:
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sister herb
10-27-2012, 06:59 PM
Salam alaykum

did I lie here? Shame for me then.

And remember that Allah knows the best.
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~Zaria~
10-27-2012, 07:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Salam alaykum

did I lie here? Shame for me then.

And remember that Allah knows the best.

Sister, when I said:

Your answers lie in the following ahadith, insha Allah
I meant that your answers can be found in the following ahadith.

(I am not accusing you of lying : ) )


BarakAllah feekum
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sister herb
10-27-2012, 07:49 PM
Salam alaykum

thanks for your explanation, dear sister Zaria. Maybe I read your post wrong.

:embarrass
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Tyrion
10-28-2012, 03:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hulk
Please first come to an agreement to a definition of music.
Uhmmm... I guess I'd say it was any combination of melodious sounds that stir up emotions in the listener. The dictionary definition isn't bad either:

mu·sic   [myoo-zik] Show IPA
noun
1.
an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
2.
the tones or sounds employed, occurring in single line (melody) or multiple lines (harmony), and sounded or to be sounded by one or more voices or instruments, or both.


format_quote Originally Posted by Muwaahid
You know?
No, sorry, not quite sure what you mean. My question wasn't really trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to see what people with a certain view think.


format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Also kind of discussions are endless in these kind of forums.
I agree that the topic of music's allowance in Islam has been done to death, and usually doesn't offer much in terms of new information. Sorry if you feel this thread is another one of those, but I tried to formulate my question in such a way that it avoided that question and asked a more specific one. i don't consider this thread to be about music being allowed or not, although some people seem to think so based on the replies thus far.


format_quote Originally Posted by joyous fairy
I think some people look towards the message in the music, or the lyrics of the song/nasheed. Most popular music is filled with lyrics that are completely unislamic. but nasheeds have good messages in them, so people would see then as a good thing.

Another reason might be because some people find it hard to stay away from music.. So wouldn't it be better to listen to nasheeds rather than modern popular songs that are filled with horrible lyrics?
I suppose this would make sense if the person's main argument was that music is bad because of its lyrics, but that's usually not the case for most people, I think. (and it's just untrue, since the vast majority of music doesn't have bad lyrics, or in many cases any lyrics at all)


format_quote Originally Posted by ~Zaria~
If some people wish to listen to nasheeds with music
First of all, people keep saying "nasheeds with music"... Nasheeds are music. I think most of you mean nasheeds which include instrumentals, in which case I think I specified that my question was directed at those who argue for music's adverse emotional/spiritual effects while maintaining that (non instrumental) nasheeds are okay even though they seem (to me) to contain much of the same qualities as "normal" or instrumental music (at least when it comes to how they affect a person). I hope this makes sense.
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Samiun
10-28-2012, 05:23 AM
:sl: maybe some Muslims think that nasheed with music is better than music itself because lyrics in a nasheed normally praises Allah or talk about Islam and good deeds. Not all nasheed have music in em..
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Tyrion
10-28-2012, 05:45 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Samiun
maybe some Muslims think that nasheed with music is better than music itself because lyrics in a nasheed normally praises Allah or talk about Islam and good deeds. Not all nasheed have music in em..
Read my posts, I'm talking about nasheeds that don't have musical instruments in them... I'm assuming that's what you mean when you say "nasheeds with music", right?
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~Zaria~
10-28-2012, 10:24 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion


First of all, people keep saying "nasheeds with music"... Nasheeds are music. I think most of you mean nasheeds which include instrumentals, in which case I think I specified that my question was directed at those who argue for music's adverse emotional/spiritual effects while maintaining that (non instrumental) nasheeds are okay even though they seem (to me) to contain much of the same qualities as "normal" or instrumental music (at least when it comes to how they affect a person). I hope this makes sense.
Assalamu-alaikum,

For purpose of clarification, nasheed is the arabic word for 'song'.

There can be nasheeds/ songs that have musical instruments in them, and those that do not.

In other words, 'nasheeds' do not refer to 'music' by definition.

As mentioned, nasheeds with musical instruments are haraam (with the exception of the duff in certain instances).

With regards to nasheeds that do not contain musical instruments, this is explained well in the following link (as posted by sis islamica):


What is the ruling on Islamic nasheeds that are free of music?

Praise be to Allaah.

The clear saheeh texts indicate in a number of ways that it is permissible to recite poetry and listen to it. It was narrated in saheeh reports that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and his noble Companions (may Allaah be pleased with them) listened to verse, recited it (as nasheed) and asked others to recite it, both when they were travelling and when they stayed at home, in their gatherings and whilst they were working, individually, as in the case of Hassaan ibn Thaabit, ‘Aamir ibn al-Akwa’ and Anjashah (may Allaah be pleased with them), and in unison, as in the hadeeth of Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) which describes the digging of the ditch (al-khandaq). Anas said:

When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw how exhausted and hungry we were, he said (in verse):

“O Allaah, there is no life except the life of the Hereafter, so forgive the Ansaar and the Muhaajireen.”

And they said in response:

“We are the ones who have pledged allegiance to Muhammad, to make jihaad for as long as we live.”

(Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3/1043)

And in gatherings too: Ibn Abi Shaybah narrated with a hasan isnaad that Abu Salamah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan said: “The Companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not speak in devious tones or in a soft manner. They used to recite verses in their gatherings, denouncing the affairs of their jaahiliyyah, but if it was the matter of their religion, they would become very serious and cautious (8/711).

This evidence indicates that nasheeds are permissible, whether recited individually or in unison. The word nasheed in Arabic means raising the voice when reciting verse and making the voice sound beautiful and gentle.

There are conditions to which attention must be paid with regard to this matter:

Not using forbidden musical instruments in nasheed.

Not doing it too much or making it the focus of the Muslim’s mind, occupying all his time, or neglecting obligatory duties because of it.

Nasheed should not be recited by women, or include haraam or obscene speech.

They should not resemble the tunes of the people of immorality and promiscuity.

They should be free of vocal effects that produce sounds like those of musical instruments.

They should not have moving tunes which make the listener feel “high” as happens to those who listen to songs. This is the case with many of the nasheeds which appear nowadays, so that the listeners no longer pay any attention to the good meaning of the words, because they are so entranced by the tunes. And Allaah is the Source of strength.

References:

Fath al-Baari, 10/553-554-562-563
Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, 8/711
Al-Qaamoos al-Muheet,411

Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid


http://islamqa.info/en/ref/11563

:wa:
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~Zaria~
10-28-2012, 05:12 PM
Just wanted to share some (music-free) nasheeds that I enjoy listening to - which can be a means of reflecting about the greatness of Allah, His creation, His mercy.....

Also, if you have chosen to remove TV and music from your homes, this is a nice substitute for kids and the family.












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Independent
10-29-2012, 07:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Tyrion
I agree that the topic of music's allowance in Islam has been done to death,
As a recent member I have missed all these debates but I am interested to read about it - without boring everyone with a repeat. Can someone give me a link to an existing thread?
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Muhammad
10-29-2012, 08:13 PM
Greetings Independent,

You had better have a big mug of tea/coffee/hot chocolate prepared as it's going to be a long night for you. I had compiled these links earlier:


http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...iew-music.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/manners-...ytans-qur.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...ing-music.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/worship-...an-sunnah.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/miscella...415-music.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RthlUOYkI7M - The End of Music - Kamal el-Mekki


Other links from Islamqa:

Ruling on music, singing and dancing.

Ruling on so-called “Islamic” songs with musical instruments.

The ruling on Islamic nasheeds .

Haraam issues in modern anaasheed and the conditions of nasheed being permissible.
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Independent
10-29-2012, 08:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muhammad
You had better have a big mug of tea/coffee/hot chocolate prepared as it's going to be a long night for you
Gulp. See you again somewhere around December, I guess.
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Muhammad
10-29-2012, 08:29 PM
:salamext:


Regarding the last link above, it seems to be relevant to this thread and might clarify some issues. It's quite long to read though!


Haraam issues in modern anaasheed and the conditions of nasheed being permissible





Question

Are the modern nasheeds permissible ‘video clips’? Is it not similar to the normal songs of ‘kuffar’? Are these video clips permissible although it includes
women wearing makeup and showing their faces and hands, many sound effects and men without beards. Is it permissible for all this to be displayed? Please answer in details. May Allah reward you!.


Answer

Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Nasheeds have changed from what they were at first.

Unfortunately nasheeds and munshids (nasheed-“singers”) have sunk to this level. Whereas nasheeds used to have meanings of faith, jihad and knowledge, they have now – in many cases – become akin to the songs of evildoers, with softening of the voice, putting a picture of the munshid on the cover of the tape, and making video clips to accompany the nasheed, which contain haraam things such as the presence of women or evildoers, and using musical instruments. The best of them nowadays are those that use sound effects that mimic the sound of musical instruments. No attention is paid to the meaning, rather all the attention is focused on the tune and other sound effects. Otherwise tell me how a munshid can produce a nasheed in English which the [Arab] listeners enjoy listening to so much even though they do not understand a single word of it?!

Nasheeds have overtaken other kinds of educational and beneficial audio material and nasheed groups have proliferated in the Muslim world. These groups do not hesitate to publish pictures of their groups in newspapers and magazines wearing identical clothing, and their faces often proclaim their going against the guidance of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as they have shaved their beards. Some Qur’aan readers whom Allaah has blessed with beautiful voices and talent in reading that makes one weep have followed in their footsteps. Some of them became very keen to go down that path and released some recordings which do not befit their status. So you may find one of them producing a recording with some clean-shaven evildoers and pictures of women appearing in the video clip with the nasheed. The camera zooms in on the face of the munshid when he is looking his best and he stares soulfully into the camera and behaves like a pop singer.

We are not exaggerating, and we are not talking about things that do not happen. These munshids who publish their pictures and mobile phone numbers know that women are tempted by them, and they know what effect their movements and looks and images have on that weak section of mankind. Unfortunately we only see them producing more of these nasheeds with images.

Hence some of the prominent Shaykhs who permitted nasheeds at first were upset by what nasheeds and munshids have become – and this was before they found out about the video clips – so they retracted the view that it is permissible or they stipulated conditions for it to be said to be permissible. Among these prominent Shaykhs are: Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him).

1. He said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

I think that Islamic nasheeds have changed from what they were before. They were done with voices that were not enchanting, but now they are done with enchanting voices, and they are also accompanied by evil and corrupting tunes and they say that they are accompanied by the duff, but all of this means that one should keep away from these nasheeds. But if a man comes to us and sings anaasheed that have a sound meaning, and which do not include any nonsense, and uses his voice only with no musical instruments, there is nothing wrong with that. Hassaan ibn Thaabit used to recite poetry in the mosque of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

Duroos wa Fataawa al-Haram al-Madani, 1416 AH, question no. 18.

2. He also said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

There has been a lot of talk about Islamic nasheeds. I have not listened to them for a long time. When they first appeared there was nothing wrong with them. There were no duffs, and they were performed in a manner that did not involve any fitnah, and they were not performed with the tunes of haraam songs. But then they changed and we began to hear a rhythm that may have been a duff or it may have been something other than a duff, and they began to choose performers with beautiful and enchanting voices, then they changed further and began to be performed in the manner of haraam songs. Hence we began to feel uneasy about them, and unable to issue fatwas stating that they were permissible in all cases, or that they were forbidden in all cases. If they are free of the things that I have referred to then they are permissible, but if they are accompanied by the duff or performers are chosen who have beautiful and enchanting voices, or they are performed in the manner of indecent songs, then it is not permissible to listen to them.

Al-Sahwah al-Islamiyyah (p. 185).

3. Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

As for that which is called Islamic nasheeds, they have been given more time and effort than they deserve, to such an extent that they have become an art form which takes up space in school curricula and school activities, and the recording companies record huge numbers of them to sell and distribute, and most houses are full of them, and many young men and women listen to them, and it takes up a lot of their time, and they are listened to more than recordings of Qur’aan, Sunnah, lectures and useful lessons.

Al-Bayaan li Akhta’ Ba’d al-Kuttaab (p. 342).

4. Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

I remember full well that when I was in Damascus, two years before I migrated here to ‘Ammaan, some of the Muslim youth started to sing some anaasheed that had sound meanings, intending thereby to counteract the Sufi songs like the Busayri poems and others, and they recorded that on tapes, but soon it was accompanied by beating the duff! At first they used it in wedding parties, on the basis that the duff is permissible in such parties, then the tapes became widespread and copies were made of them, and they started to be used in many homes, and they started to listen to them day and night, whether there was an occasion or not. That became their way of relaxing. But that is due only to their whims and desires and their ignorance of the shaytaan’s tricks, so he diverted them from paying attention to the Qur’aan and listening to it, let alone studying it, and it became forsaken by them, as it says in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “And the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) will say: ‘O my Lord! Verily, my people deserted this Qur’aan (neither listened to it nor acted on its laws and teachings)’” [al-Furqaan 25:30].

Tahreem Aalaat al-Tarb (p. 181, 182).

It is regrettable that some of those who appoint themselves to issue fatwas have reached such a level that they issues fatwas to adult women allowing them to perform nasheed in front of men, and even on satellite channels in front of millions, and these female performers use musical instruments which are forbidden in sharee’ah, but are permitted by this so-called mufti.

Secondly:

The guidelines and conditions of permissible nasheeds:

By studying the words of the scholars and trustworthy Shaykhs we may compile a list of guidelines and shar’i conditions which must be fulfilled for the nasheed to be permissible. That includes:

1. The words of the nasheed must be free of haraam and foolish words.

2. The nasheed should not be accompanied by musical instruments. No musical instrument is permitted except the duff for women on certain occasions. See the answer to question no. 20406.

3.It should be free of sound effects that imitate musical instruments, because what counts is what appears to be the case, and imitating haraam instruments is not permissible, especially when the bad effect is the same as that which happens with real instruments.

4. Listening to nasheed should not become a habit which takes up a person’s time and affects his duties and mustahabb actions, such as affecting his reading of Qur’aan and calling others to Allaah.

5. The performer of a nasheed should not be a woman performing in front of men, or a man with an enchanting appearance or voice performing in front of women.

6. One should avoid listening to performers with soft voices who move their bodies in rhythm, because there is fitnah in all of that and it is an imitation of the evildoers.

7. One should avoid the images that are put on the covers of their tapes, and more important than that, one should avoid the video clips that accompany their nasheeds, especially those which contain provocative movements and imitations of immoral singers.

8. The purpose of the nasheed should be the words, not the tune.

There follow some of the comments of the scholars which include the guidelines and conditions mentioned above.

1. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

To sum up, what is well known in the Islamic religion is that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) did not prescribe for the righteous, devoted worshippers and ascetics of his ummah to gather to listen to poetic verses recited to the accompaniment of clapping or the beating of a duff. It is not permissible for anyone to deviate from following him and following that which he brought of the Book and wisdom, whether that has to do with inward or outward matters, either for an ordinary man or a member of the elite. But the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) granted concessions allowing some kinds of entertainment in weddings and the like, and he allowed women to beat the duff during weddings and other celebrations.

As for the men of his era, not one of them used to beat the duff or clap, rather it is proven in al-Saheeh that he said: “Clapping is for women, and tasbeeh is for men” and he cursed the women who imitate men and the men who imitate women.

Because singing, beating the duff and clapping are things that women do, the salaf used to call a man who did those things effeminate, and they called men who sang effeminate, and this is well known among their sayings. End quote.

Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (11/565, 566).

2. Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Islamic anasheed vary. If they are sound and contain nothing but calling people to what is good, and reminding them of what is good, and obedience to Allaah and His Messenger, and calling people to defend their homelands against the plots of the enemy, and preparing to face the enemy and so on, there is nothing wrong with that. But if they are something other than that, and they promote sin and and are performed before mixed audiences of men and women, or audiences in which women are uncovered in the presence of men, or any other evil action, then it is not permissible to listen to them. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (3/437).

3. He also said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

Islamic nasheeds are like poetry: if it is sound then it is sound and if there is anything objectionable in it then it is objectionable.

The conclusion is that you cannot pass one judgement on all types of nasheed, rather each should be examined on its own merits. There is nothing wrong with sound nasheeds, but nasheeds which contain anything objectionable or promote anything objectionable are objectionable and evil. End quote.

Shareet As’ilah wa Ajwabah al-Jaami’ al-Kabeer (no. 90/A).

4. The scholars of the Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas said:

It is permissible for you to replace these songs with Islamic nasheeds which contain words of wisdom and exhortation and lessons, which promote keenness to follow Islam and invoke Islamic feelings, which put one off evil and the things that promote it, and which motivate the one who “sings” them and the one who hears them to obey Allaah and discourage them to disobey Him or transgress His limits; they make one keen to protect His sharee’ah and strive in jihad for His sake. But you should not take that as a habit which one persists in, rather that should be something that is done only sometimes, on special occasions such as weddings or when travelling for jihad and so on, and when one feels low, in order to revive the spirit and motivate oneself to do good, or when one feels inclined towards evil, so listening to such nasheeds may ward that off. End quote.

Fataawa Islamiyyah (4/533); we have quoted the fatwa in full in the answer to question no. 47996 and 67925.

5. Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

There may be another sin involved in that [i.e., nasheeds], which is that they may be performed in the manner of immoral songs and performed according to the rules of eastern or western music which makes the listeners enjoy it and makes them dance and behave in a foolish manner. So the aim becomes the tune and the enjoyment thereof, and not nasheed per se. This is a new error, and it is an imitation of the kuffaar and immoral people. That may lead to a further error, which is imitating them in turning away from the Qur’aan and forsaking it, and being included in the general meaning of the complaint of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) will say: ‘O my Lord! Verily, my people deserted this Qur’aan (neither listened to it nor acted on its laws and teachings)’” [al-Furqaan 25:30]. End quote from Tahreem Alaat al-Tarb (p. 181).

6. He also said:

If these anaasheed contain Islamic meanings and are not accompanied by any instruments such as the daff, tablah drum and so on, then there is nothing wrong with them, but we must point out an important condition of their being permissible, which is that they should be free of anything that goes against sharee’ah, such as exaggeration and the like. Then there is another condition, which is that they should not become a habit, because that distracts the listeners from reading Qur’aan which is encouraged in the Sunnah, and it also distracts them from seeking beneficial knowledge and calling people to Allaah. End quote.

Majallat al-Asaalah (issue no. 2, 15 Jumaada al-Aakhirah 1413 AH).

7. In the answer to question no. 11563 we mentioned a number of guidelines, which we will mention again here, because they are useful:

Not using forbidden musical instruments in nasheed.

Not doing it too much or making it the focus of the Muslim’s mind, occupying all his time, or neglecting obligatory duties because of it.

Nasheed should not be recited by women, or include haraam or obscene speech.

They should not resemble the tunes of the people of immorality and promiscuity.

They should be free of vocal effects that produce sounds like those of musical instruments.

They should not have moving tunes which make the listener feel “high” as happens to those who listen to songs. This is the case with many of the nasheeds which appear nowadays, so that the listeners no longer pay any attention to the good meaning of the words, because they are so entranced by the tunes.

We have too high an opinion of our brothers who perform nasheeds and recite Qur’aan to think that they could be a cause of fitnah for young men and women, and a cause of their being distracted from obedience to Allaah. They know how great an effect their voices and pictures may have on males and females; if you go to chat rooms you will see very weird things. You will see a woman who is infatuated with a munshid or one who cannot sleep unless she is listening to the voice of So and so, and those who call themselves ‘aashiqat fulaan (lover of So and so – a munshid) and you see men and women venerating those munshids, giving them titles and high status, even though some of them are not religiously committed at all, and some of them have fallen into the trap of singing immoral songs, and if you go to some websites that have these nasheeds, you will be surprised at how often these nasheeds are downloaded and how many people have no interest in listening to Qur’aan and useful lectures.

We ask Allaah to set the affairs of all of us straight.

And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/91142/nasheed
Reply

soloqi
10-30-2012, 04:26 AM
If an individual so chooses to listen to music, so be it. the problem with music as with many issues in Islam are open to interpretation..Granted a pious person may not like certain music, but to say music is forbidden in Islam well, each to their own..

The Taliban and the Wahhabi's impose a total ban on such things, and also impose strict codes of conduct on the women in Islam and use the quotes and translation in the Quran to enforce the fanatic way if life.

we all break rules...for example to purchase any for of insurance polity is Haram, yet how many people here living in the u.k do just that...and well let us not touch on the subject of Interest..
Reply

Snowflake
10-30-2012, 08:50 AM
=soloqi;1550071]If an individual so chooses to listen to music, so be it. the problem with music as with many issues in Islam are open to interpretation..Granted a pious person may not like certain music, but to say music is forbidden in Islam well, each to their own..
We can't class anything as haram without texual evidence from the Quran and Hadith, therefore no pious person would say music is haram based on their dislike of it (especially since some might have listened to it if it were permissible but knowing it's haram have given it up for the pleasure of Allah). Those who accept the evidences given, do so based on their belief in the sayings of Rasulullah (pbuh) and his instruction to follow the pious predecessors, who were the best muslims from amongst those were whose understanding of the meaning of the verse, “And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks (i.e. music, singing) to mislead (men) from the path of Allaah…” [Luqmaan 31:6] was that it refers to music/singing.

Al-Hasan al-Basri, Ibn al-Qayyim, Ibn Katheer, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah, to name a few, as well as the four Imams all agreed that music/singing is haram. We cannot match those mentioned in their knowledge, wisdom and understanding which Allah bestowed upon them as a result of their taqwa and dedication to learn and understand the deen, and yet we fool ourselves into thinking, that we, whose daily prayers probably aren't even accepted know better than them.

“And befool them gradually those whom you can among them with your voice (i.e. songs, music, and any other call for Allaah’s disobedience)…” [al-Israa’ 17:64]


***





I have noticed that when a person who doesn't have sufficient knowledge to understand why something is prohibited moves away from arguing about it and focuses more gaining closeness to Allah through obligatory, sunnah and voluntary acts of ibadah, Allah Himself guides their hearts away from that which displeases Him. So instead of exerting endless time and effort in arguing about matters which takes away the time and energy to gain closeness to Allah, I sincerely suggest that first we put more effort into fixing our obligatory prayers by giving them their due (our full concentration and humility before Allah) and making other obligatory acts compliment them so that they are not wasted and for show alone.


Here's one example for us in Suratul Ma'un.

Have you seen the one who denies the Recompense?
For that is the one who drives away the orphan
And does not encourage the feeding of the poor.
So woe to those who pray
[But] who are heedless of their prayer -
Those who make show [of their deeds]
And withhold [simple] assistance.



And also in Surah Al-Mu´minùn (23): 1-11

“It is the believers who are successful: those who are humble in their prayer; those who turn away from worthless talk; those who pay the alms-tax; those who guard their private parts – except from their wives or those they own as slaves, in which case they are not blameworthy; but those who desire anything more than that are people who have gone beyond the limits – those who honour their trusts and their contracts; those who safeguard their prayer; such people are the inheritors who will inherit Firdaws, remaining in it timelessly, forever.”
Reply

Tyrion
10-30-2012, 09:59 AM
Can we try not to let this degenerate into another typical music debate? I'd appreciate it if the copy/paste posts stopped, they're annoying and aren't convincing anyone... I've only had a few posts directly try to answer my question, and I'd appreciate more.
Reply

soloqi
10-30-2012, 05:19 PM
Tyrion.....said.... I'd appreciate it if the copy/paste posts stopped, they're annoying and aren't convincing anyone... I've only had a few posts directly try to answer my question, and I'd appreciate more(sorry to copy and paste...lol)

This topic degenerate long ago before...

Does anybody remember a thing called science...Morphic resonance.....does anybody else know this word...Sound being a wave will resonate according to pitch tone and frequencey...music and vocals produce a morphic resonance.....performing Dhikr aloud is the same thing...

Sounds can effect the individual to the point where is can effect the individuals base resonant frequency...but on saying that sounds can also be used to effect an individuals emotions...

Those emotional people on this board should be more aware of the effect the music has on them, a stronger mind using ones own consciousnesses will no be so easily influenced by sound waves. So to a weaker mind listening to music can easily be swayed.

Anyway music is simply controlled noise inbetween the silence.....

we all have it in us to know the truth innately, but it is a shame that people are not encouraged to listen to their hearts.
Reply

Muhammad
10-30-2012, 08:27 PM
:salamext: brother Tyrion,

I think the original question has been answered and to prevent the thread turning into a debate about music, it's best to end here.

Whilst copy and pasting may be annoying to read, I think it's unfair to dismiss all such posts because they do also contain answers. Your main question is centred on the effect that nasheeds have on a person, likening them to music in that regard. But the guidelines of nasheed cover this point, thus highlighting that indeed music and nasheeds are, or at least should be, two very different things. The following information makes this clear:


format_quote Originally Posted by .
By studying the words of the scholars and trustworthy Shaykhs we may compile a list of guidelines and shar’i conditions which must be fulfilled for the nasheed to be permissible. That includes:

1. The words of the nasheed must be free of haraam and foolish words.

2. The nasheed should not be accompanied by musical instruments. No musical instrument is permitted except the duff for women on certain occasions. See the answer to question no. 20406.

3.It should be free of sound effects that imitate musical instruments, because what counts is what appears to be the case, and imitating haraam instruments is not permissible, especially when the bad effect is the same as that which happens with real instruments.

4. Listening to nasheed should not become a habit which takes up a person’s time and affects his duties and mustahabb actions, such as affecting his reading of Qur’aan and calling others to Allaah.

5. The performer of a nasheed should not be a woman performing in front of men, or a man with an enchanting appearance or voice performing in front of women.

6. One should avoid listening to performers with soft voices who move their bodies in rhythm, because there is fitnah in all of that and it is an imitation of the evildoers.

7. One should avoid the images that are put on the covers of their tapes, and more important than that, one should avoid the video clips that accompany their nasheeds, especially those which contain provocative movements and imitations of immoral singers.

8. The purpose of the nasheed should be the words, not the tune.
3. He also said (may Allaah have mercy on him):

Islamic nasheeds are like poetry: if it is sound then it is sound and if there is anything objectionable in it then it is objectionable.

The conclusion is that you cannot pass one judgement on all types of nasheed, rather each should be examined on its own merits. There is nothing wrong with sound nasheeds, but nasheeds which contain anything objectionable or promote anything objectionable are objectionable and evil. End quote.

Shareet As’ilah wa Ajwabah al-Jaami’ al-Kabeer (no. 90/A).
5. Shaykh al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

There may be another sin involved in that [i.e., nasheeds], which is that they may be performed in the manner of immoral songs and performed according to the rules of eastern or western music which makes the listeners enjoy it and makes them dance and behave in a foolish manner. So the aim becomes the tune and the enjoyment thereof, and not nasheed per se. This is a new error, and it is an imitation of the kuffaar and immoral people. That may lead to a further error, which is imitating them in turning away from the Qur’aan and forsaking it, and being included in the general meaning of the complaint of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the Messenger (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) will say: ‘O my Lord! Verily, my people deserted this Qur’aan (neither listened to it nor acted on its laws and teachings)’” [al-Furqaan 25:30]. End quote from Tahreem Alaat al-Tarb (p. 181).

6. He also said:

If these anaasheed contain Islamic meanings and are not accompanied by any instruments such as the daff, tablah drum and so on, then there is nothing wrong with them, but we must point out an important condition of their being permissible, which is that they should be free of anything that goes against sharee’ah, such as exaggeration and the like. Then there is another condition, which is that they should not become a habit, because that distracts the listeners from reading Qur’aan which is encouraged in the Sunnah, and it also distracts them from seeking beneficial knowledge and calling people to Allaah. End quote.

Majallat al-Asaalah (issue no. 2, 15 Jumaada al-Aakhirah 1413 AH).

7. In the answer to question no. 11563 we mentioned a number of guidelines, which we will mention again here, because they are useful:

Not using forbidden musical instruments in nasheed.

Not doing it too much or making it the focus of the Muslim’s mind, occupying all his time, or neglecting obligatory duties because of it.

Nasheed should not be recited by women, or include haraam or obscene speech.

They should not resemble the tunes of the people of immorality and promiscuity.

They should be free of vocal effects that produce sounds like those of musical instruments.

They should not have moving tunes which make the listener feel “high” as happens to those who listen to songs. This is the case with many of the nasheeds which appear nowadays, so that the listeners no longer pay any attention to the good meaning of the words, because they are so entranced by the tunes.
Reply

Muhammad
10-30-2012, 08:47 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by soloqi
Interesting post snowflake...however when quoting the quran, well because we are speaking english....it it open to interpretation...
No, it isn't. Our respect for the Qur'an should at least make us realise that interpretation of the Qur'an requires knowledge. If a person does not even know Arabic, he is not in a position to be interpreting it based on an English translation, which, by the way, is itself an interpretation.

I know some people can get rather emotional about these topics but in the pursuit of intelligent honesty, the evidence is bias according to ones individual experiences and beliefs.
Forgive us if we take the opinion of the vast majority or, as quoted, the consensus of Muslim scholars on this issue over your experiences and beliefs. We find that to be far more intelligent and honest for the sake of our religion.

we all have it in us to know the truth innately, but it is a shame that people are not encouraged to listen to their hearts.
And We sent not before you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) but men to whom We revealed. So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know. [Al-Anbiyaa: 7]

Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "(But) the things that my Lord has indeed forbidden are Al-Fawahish (great evil sins and every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse) whether committed openly or secretly, sins (of all kinds), unrighteous oppression, joining partners (in worship) with Allah for which He has given no authority, and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge." [Al-A'raaf: 33]

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination. [An-Nisaa: 59]



Thread closed.
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