A righteous husband is the key to her Jannah ♥

[~Zaria~]

A poor righteous man asked a father for the hand of his daughter in marriage, but he refused because the young man didn’t have enough money in his bank account. Then that father accepted to give his daughter in marriage to a rich man who wasn’t a practicing Muslim.

People asked the father:” how could you accept to marry your daughter to such person?” he just replied:“Allah The Guide, will show him the right path InshaAllah”.

But didn’t he know that Al Hadi “The Guide” who will guide that rich man, is Ar-Razzaq “The Provider”, who will provide for that poor man?

Allah says in Qur’an: “And marry those among you who are single and the pious of your slaves and maid-servants. If they be poor, Allah will enrich them out of His grace. Allah is of ample means, Aware.” [ Sûrah al-Nûr : 32]

Unfortunately we are in a time where status and wealth are more important than Deen and good manners!

We are in a time where some parents think that money is the secret of their daughter’s happiness.

They forget that a righteous husband is the key to her Jannah and that is the ultimate happiness. They forget that marrying their daughter to a righteous man, they makes sure that the husband gives her happiness for the sake of Allah. If the man has a healthy relationship with Allah Azzawajal, he will be good to her for Allah’s sake, he will automatically obey her, respect her, love her and care about her for the sake of Allah (swt).

If you rely on Allah, just give your daughter or son's hand to a pious person.

Source: unknown

[Qurratul Ayn]

:salamext:

If only the majority of people had that view, wow, what a world we would have lived in.

But, alas, financial criteria has to be met above all others, which is absolutely ridiculous. How many houses? How many businesses? How much weight in gold? How many sarees, lenghas, jilbabs? How many? How much? Where shall we have the wedding? It has to be at the most expensive location ever!

Why are people so fickle??? Namaaz, the Qur'aan are sooooooo important. People, people, people, you make me weep.

Great post, Sister ~Zaria~

O Allaah only you can guide and keep us on the straight and true path. Let us not fall into our sins but follow the righteous deeds of Muhammad :saws: and all those who followed him. Please give us the strength to do so.

[Ramadan90]

Wow. If all women had that attitude....

I would say that this applies vice versa as well. I hope to find a righteous wife inshallah.

[Periwinkle18]

nice post sis :)

pious ppl r hard to find...

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[A-Brother]

I AGREE 100% With The Posts Above.

Relating To The Hadith. Nowadays We Look At The Lineage, Wealth, Beauty But Very Few Go For The Righteous One - The One With Taqwa. May Allah Guide All Of You Righteous Partners.

Note: Find The Person Who Has Taqwa

[Insaanah]

:sl:

They forget that a righteous husband is the key to her Jannah and that is the ultimate happiness. They forget that marrying their daughter to a righteous man, they makes sure that the husband gives her happiness for the sake of Allah. If the man has a healthy relationship with Allah Azzawajal, he will be good to her for Allah’s sake, he will automatically obey her, respect her, love her and care about her for the sake of Allah (swt).

If you rely on Allah, just give your daughter or son's hand to a pious person.

A religious or otherwise righteous person, while being a pre-requisite, doesn't automatically mean that a person will be good to his wife, and that, unfortunately, is a sad fact of life.

Religiousity is of course the pre-requisite, but sometimes such people are not good to their wives, and sometimes conversely, people not known for being very religious can have the most amazing manners towards their families.

In a hadeeth, which is graded as weak by some, and hasan by others, the Prophet :saws: is reported to have said: "When someone whose religion and character you are pleased with comes to you (for your daughters hand) then marry (her to) him..." (part of a longer hadeeth from Tirmidhi 270)

Notice it doesn't just mention deen, but adds to that character. While deen and character should go hand in hand and one should automatically lead to the other, that is not always the case, and that is why character has been mentioned alongside. Indeed, Umar ibn al-Khattaab (may Allah be pleased with him) once said that a person should not attest to the goodness of someone just because they go to the mosque regularly.

So it is very important, for parents to look not only at deen and religiousity, but his character and temperament, is he known for having a bad temper, is he harsh in his dealings, and other aspects of character. Nothing can ruin a home more than constant agitation, stress, anger etc. Otherwise, he could perhaps become the key to her jannah, but also to her living hell.

And Allah knows best.

[Hulk]

The Messenger (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said, “If a woman observes her five daily prayers, fasts during the month of Ramadhan, guards her chastity and obeys her husband, she may enter Paradise through any of the gates she wishes.”
[Ibn Hibban ~ Hadith Sahih]


​

[islamica]

We often find young religious minded people on forum such as this one. They all talk about religion being important than duniya and marrying someone for deen. They also state it's hard to find such people, implying they are looking and have not had much success. There are single brothers and sisters here, so why do they not consider marrying each other from here? The very thought of something like that happening puts them on the defensive. If a brother to ask a sister on here to express interest, the reaction would be that they are not looking online or would marry someoneline from online or from a forum. I would say vice versa but often that is not the case. I've seen this happen on a few other forums as well. So I guess does that leave forums for talking about how islamically it should be this way or that way and once everyone is done sharing their thoughts and expertise and goes off line, it's life as usual? just a thought....

[A-Brother]

“Do not marry women on account of their beauty, for it is possible that this very beauty may become the cause of her destruction. Neither marry women because of their wealth for it is possible this may be a cause for her rebellion and mischief. Rather marry women because of their piety. A lowly slave girl graced with piety and noble character is infinitely superior to a beautiful high class women of poor character.” (Sunan Ibn Majah P133)

The Prophet said, "A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her piety. So you should marry the religious woman and achieve success.




(Ashrafs Blessings Of Marriage) - A Recommended Book

[_Y168]

^ I just heard that Hadeeth today on Islam Channel during Hajj Live streaming.

[~Zaria~]

We often mind young religious minded people on forum such as this one. They all talk about religion being important than duniya and marrying someone for deen. They also state it's hard to find such people, implying they are looking and have not had much success. There are single brothers and sisters here, so why do they not consider marrying each other from here? The very thought of something like that happening puts them on the defensive. If a brother to ask a sister on here to express interest, the reaction would be that they are not looking online or would marry someoneline from online or from a forum. I would say vice versa but often that is not the case. I've seen this happen on a few other forums as well. So I guess does that leave forums for talking about how islamically it should be this way or that way and once everyone is done sharing their thoughts and expertise and goes off line, it's life as usual? just a thought....

Assalamu-alaikum,

I agree with you sister.

I think if a brother/ sister has a genuine interest in another with a view to marriage - and not with the intention of idle chatting up of the opposite gender, then there should be a means available for this.

However, having said this, I guess from the forums point view - this is not meant to be a 'match-making' site, and there needs to a level of control with regards to interaction between each other.

Perhaps, I can suggest that if the above situation does arise (i.e where one member is sincerely/ genuinely/ no-intention-to-fool-around interested in another), then he/ she can write to admin requesting them to act as mediators? (which would basically mean, assessing if the other member is interested as well, getting the sisters walli involved in the communication, etc).

Its most likely that the brothers would initiate contact (i think)......most sisters are probably too shy to do so......


:wa:

[Futuwwa]

After reading this thread, I thought that if I ever get a daughter, I will tell her the following when she becomes of marriageable age: Choose for your husband a righteous man rather than a wealthy man, for I am unable to make your husband any more righteous than he already is, but as for money, that I am able to give you ;D

(This of course requires that I am rich when this happens, which is not quite true at the moment, but I intend to rectify that in the meantime)

[Futuwwa]

Wow. If all women had that attitude....

I would say that this applies vice versa as well. I hope to find a righteous wife inshallah.

Well, as I said in the other thread, then you should seriously hide, or at least not be upfront about, the fact that you are a (future) doctor. If a woman would not marry you if you were a taxi driver, she is consequently utterly undeserving of a doctor husband ;D

And no, I don't have any idea about how to carry out the deception in a way that would neither be impractical nor immoral :hiding:

[Asiyaah]

Inshallah, I hope someday I can find a nice Muslim man who can teach me about Islam, such as how to pray, etc. Thus far I haven't met a single practising Muslim man. :(

[Mustafa2012]

There was a story about a father who prevented his daughter from getting married to men that were religious and of good character for no legitimate reason. I'll try to find the link to it.

Anyway she turned ill after a while and when she was dying she made du'aa to Allaah to prevent her father from entering Paradise because he prevented her from getting married to people for no legitimate reason.

[Predator]

There was a story about a father who prevented his daughter from getting married to men that were religious and of good character for no legitimate reason. I'll try to find the link to it.

Anyway she turned ill after a while and when she was dying she made du'aa to Allaah to prevent her father from entering Paradise because he prevented her from getting married to people for no legitimate reason.

If only all women thought that way . Many Men are also in the same position as the daughter

That legimate reason for the father would have been that men werent simply not rich enough. They're all the same these days, always making excessive demands of housing ,furniture ,car and that grandchildren should be put in the best schools .doesnt suprise me

[Mustafa2012]

If only all women thought that way . Many Men are also in the same position as the daughter

That legimate reason for the father would have been that men werent simply not rich enough. They're all the same these days, always making excessive demands of housing ,furniture ,car and that grandchildren should be put in the best schools .doesnt suprise me

I can understand why some parents are so focused on the material side but you don't really need to be wealthy to live a decent life.

I mean as long as someone has a good job or business and can provide a comfortable house (which doesn't have to be owned), enough food, clothing and treat his wife well then that is sufficient according to Shari'ah requirements.

The problem is when some parents go to extremes and want to compete with their relatives and be seen as having the richest son in law. Sometimes the reasons are selfish for e.g. they expect that rich son in law to spend on them (i.e the parents rather than the daughter)

This is what puts pressure on their children and sometimes the children get into haraam relationships because their parents prevented them from a halal one for no legitimate Islamic reason.

[Predator]

I can understand why some parents are so focused on the material side but you don't really need to be wealthy to live a decent life.

I mean as long as someone has a good job or business and can provide a comfortable house (which doesn't have to be owned), enough food, clothing and treat his wife well then that is sufficient according to Shari'ah requirements.

The problem is when some parents go to extremes and want to compete with their relatives and be seen as having the richest son in law. Sometimes the reasons are selfish for e.g. they expect that rich son in law to spend on them (i.e the parents rather than the daughter)

This is what puts pressure on their children and sometimes the children get into haraam relationships because their parents prevented them from a halal one for no legitimate Islamic reason.

Yes and if they cant compete with their relatives ,they r considered as loser and not marriage material and then they get into those haraam relation because they know that they will never be able to earn a salary enough to meet their parents high expectations . No doubt,Those haraam relationship is what the Prophet (peace be upon him) was referring to when he meant "immorality and corruption " in the hadith below


Abû Hurayrah relates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "If a suitor approaches whose religion and character please you, then let him marry. Otherwise, there will be a lot of immorality and corruption in the world." [Sunan al-Tirmidh

[Mustafa2012]

Yes brother.

Nowadays some parents consider following their own personal opinions and cultural practices as more important than following the guidance that Allaah and His Messenger gave us.

And then they wonder why their children get involved in haraam relationships and why their children are the talk of the town.

P.S. If anyone is in a situation where their parents are choosing a non practising wealthy person over someone who has enough to meet his and his potential wife's needs but is practising and of good character then I advise you to have sabr and make constant du'aa to Allaah to open your parents hearts to the truth.

[Predator]

There was a story about a father who prevented his daughter from getting married to men that were religious and of good character for no legitimate reason. I'll try to find the link to it.

Anyway she turned ill after a while and when she was dying she made du'aa to Allaah to prevent her father from entering Paradise because he prevented her from getting married to people for no legitimate reason.

mustafa, I was wondering whether you have the reference no for this hadith and also let me know if you have a similar for a son in the same position.

[CosmicPathos]

many deniers of Allah continue on to have excellent and happy marriages.

What does that prove? It for sure proves that religion is not a pre-requisite for a marriage that survives divorce. I wont use the word "happy marriage," as no marriage is totally happy. At one point Prophet pbuh had given the freedom to his wives to leave.

Anxiety disorders are more prevalent among women than men. Generalized anxiety disorder etc. With such anxiety disorders, many comorbid personality disorders such as Borderline Personality D/O are also found along with the constant agitation, passive aggression mood changes. Try to avoid marrying such people. The person you want to run away from is Borderline.

[Prayer4life]

Mashallah great thread.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I know a sister who has married a man with no home, no stable income, not even a red passport to live in the city she lives in. Yet ask ANY person regarding the man she married and all you will hear is praise about his religious character.


how is this sister now? She has gone through some of the most toughest ordeals imaginable and the righteous man has stood by her, firmly, without sleep, without distraction. At every point he asks those close to Allaah, as he is himself close to Allaah, for help, for duas etc and at every point he relies on Allaah in a way only the most rare of this ummah do.




How many sisters would marry such a man, who still has no stable job, no home (seriously no home). But the sister never ever regrets marrying him, as Allaah has provided every step of the way. they havent gone a day without food, or a day without shelter. And for those sisters who may be considering what has come of her hayaa' without a home, I can guarantee, she as a niqaabi hasnt compromised deen one single bit.. neither has he.

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

One of the issues that some sisters face, is marrying someone who is 'less educated' than herself.

A friend of mine is a scientist (alhamdulillah!).....and she was introduced to a 38 year old car salesman, who told her that he has plans to start his own business.
She told him to re-contact her when he has done so!

I thought this was kinda harsh.....but her point was that shes not interested in his wealth, but rather whether or not he shows initiative/ motivation in his life.

I think there are more women today (than in the past) that find themselves more/ highly educated than their male counter-parts.
Previously women were content with staying at home and fulfilling their domestic duties.
Today, many families insist that their daughters seek tertiary education - which is fine (if done within the confines of shariah).....however, it can result in different challenges within marriages.

Many men may also not be happy to wed a woman who is more qualified than him/ who earns more......and may suffer bruised egos as a result - which is also sad.

Marriage should be a partnership - of hearts and minds.
And what each brings to the marriage, should be seen as is a blessing from Allah - for the betterment of the family as a whole.

Would love to hear everyones thoughts insha Allah.....

:wa:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ education makes no difference. Taqwa/imaan/ilm/tasawwuf these are the only things that matter.

A sister who has no education at all, never had the chance to truelyl study in school could be amazingly intelligent. Whereas a university graduate could be a person who never challenges or stimulates us mentally.


intelligence and education I find to be two completely different things.

I want a highly intelligent sister.. definitly... but education doesnt mean nothing to me at all.

[PurpleCup]

Such a nice post and reminder. Mash Allah.

I have to say that we deleted such questions pertaining to "income", "job title", and other criterias because they are all man made criterias. They are not Allah made.

[Mustafa2012]

^ education makes no difference. Taqwa/imaan/ilm/tasawwuf these are the only things that matter.

A sister who has no education at all, never had the chance to truelyl study in school could be amazingly intelligent. Whereas a university graduate could be a person who never challenges or stimulates us mentally.

Intelligence and education I find to be two completely different things.

I want a highly intelligent sister.. definitly... but education doesn't mean nothing to me at all.

Good point brother.

Education and intelligence are two seperate issues.

There is also character/personality compatibility to take into account.

There are many highly educated single sisters out there who are yet to find someone of same level of education as them but how long are they willing to remain single just so they can find someone of the same level as them?

There are brothers out there who might not be as qualified as some sisters but they still have the means to provide sufficiently for their wife and many are of good character.

I know there is the fear that a highly qualified sister might not be able to communicate on the same level as a less qualified brother but that might just be a stereotype which might not be true.

Sometimes someone might be very qualified but do very little with that qualification after qualifiying. So what good was the qualification in that case?

I think personality and level of intelligence is more important than the level of qualification.If two people are compatible on a personality level, they can make it work if they really want to.

The problem is that some sisters are forced to choose someone that their family wants them to have rather than someone who is compatible with them and can provide sufficiently for their needs. They are under pressure to live up to the status and image that their family wants them to live up to which is why so many sisters are still single.

One brother I know who organized a few marriage introduction events confirmed what sister Zaria said, and added that the reality is that if sisters want to get married, some of them are going to have to compromise on their high demands or face being single for quite a long time.

[Rhubarb Tart]

I know a sister who has married a man with no home, no stable income, not even a red passport to live in the city she lives in. Yet ask ANY person regarding the man she married and all you will hear is praise about his religious character.


how is this sister now? She has gone through some of the most toughest ordeals imaginable and the righteous man has stood by her, firmly, without sleep, without distraction. At every point he asks those close to Allaah, as he is himself close to Allaah, for help, for duas etc and at every point he relies on Allaah in a way only the most rare of this ummah do.




How many sisters would marry such a man, who still has no stable job, no home (seriously no home). But the sister never ever regrets marrying him, as Allaah has provided every step of the way. they havent gone a day without food, or a day without shelter. And for those sisters who may be considering what has come of her hayaa' without a home, I can guarantee, she as a niqaabi hasnt compromised deen one single bit.. neither has he.

Do you think it is okay to miss fard prayer? No? Why? Because it is obligatory! it is obligatory for a man to provide to his wife, end of. So we went from asking sisters to be less harsh towards brothers in terms of career etc to asking ( emotional blackmail) sisters to accept a jobless brother? In that case, her father has every right to reject a jobless potential.

Funny, how we are incredibly harsh towards sisters when it comes to stuff that are not agreed upon by scholars. But something that agreed upon, we make an exception like a man should have a job or means to provide.


Also, these parents are thinking of their daughters. You know that announcement we hear in almost most mosque about a helpless divorce woman with kids that need donation? Most parent don't their daughters to be that helpless woman.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Assalamu-alaikum,

One of the issues that some sisters face, is marrying someone who is 'less educated' than herself.

A friend of mine is a scientist (alhamdulillah!).....and she was introduced to a 38 year old car salesman, who told her that he has plans to start his own business.
She told him to re-contact her when he has done so!

I thought this was kinda harsh.....but her point was that shes not interested in his wealth, but rather whether or not he shows initiative/ motivation in his life.

I think there are more women today (than in the past) that find themselves more/ highly educated than their male counter-parts.
Previously women were content with staying at home and fulfilling their domestic duties.
Today, many families insist that their daughters seek tertiary education - which is fine (if done within the confines of shariah).....however, it can result in different challenges within marriages.

Many men may also not be happy to wed a woman who is more qualified than him/ who earns more......and may suffer bruised egos as a result - which is also sad.

Marriage should be a partnership - of hearts and minds.
And what each brings to the marriage, should be seen as is a blessing from Allah - for the betterment of the family as a whole.

Would love to hear everyones thoughts insha Allah.....

:wa:

I think you should be a bit discreet when mentioning people you know. In fact, it is disgraceful how you outed your friend and it wouldn't be hard for people that know her or your friend to identify the fact you are talking about her, especially since you are a regular posters that has already spoken about where you reside and what you do.... be careful.

[Futuwwa]

Rhubarb Tart raised an important point. Having a job is not just a status thing, it is a means of sustenance. Which a husband is required to provide to his wife. So while it is indeed shallow to require a husband/suitor to have a high-end job, a certain degree of work ethic should be required. As in, it is okay to be a taxt driver, as long as he is committed to doing the job well and keeping the job.

[Predator]

Are fathers sinning if they give precedence to work over marriage and setting very high expectations of the salary in order to be able to save and buy expensive stuff and never consider arranging their son’s marriage before that.

Should the Son consider this materialistic psycho of a father as a test from Allah and fast the rest of his life as the Prophet advised ?

Will the father be held accountable to Allah on day of judgement for depriving son of marriage or will Allah forgive the father for refusing to arrange his son’s marriage before he cannot earn the extremely high salary as the father wanted ?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ the son should speak with the father regarding his problems.

The son should also be considerate of any issues that may be around.

The son should make dua.

[Futuwwa]

The son should not ask for permission to get married, but present daddy with a fait accompli.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

may I just say

If i was in predators hypothetical scenario...

I would ask my sisters/brothers (anyone) to speak to my father on my behalf.

[Predator]

may I just say

If i was in predators hypothetical scenario...

I would ask my sisters/brothers (anyone) to speak to my father on my behalf.

What is the father continues his stance despite the advice of sister/brother or islamic scholar ?
And Its not a hypothetical scenario . It is quite common with the inflation around and seems more to do with jealousy and greed ,when he sees his nephews earning so much and his son is nowhere near as good as them and thus is a loser in his sight

[CosmicPathos]

and may suffer bruised egos as a result

It seems you think bruised egos are a bad thing. Allah has created man with the desire to have authority, and that is exactly why women want a husband who earns. It does not make sense to expect the husband to not have an authoritarian character and then depend on him for money and security.

Marriage should be a partnership - of hearts and minds.

this looks nice on paper. Reality is different.

And it is perfectly normal for a man to look for a wife less educated than him. It actually fits in with what many scholars have said. Marry a woman who does not have a higher social status than you do. Prophet and Khadijha's example was an exception, there are no Khadijah's today, so dont use that wrongly used example.

[White Rose]

And it is perfectly normal for a man to look for a wife less educated than him. It actually fits in with what many scholars have said. Marry a woman who does not have a higher social status than you do. Prophet and Khadijha's example was an exception, there are no Khadijah's today, so dont use that wrongly used example.

They are out there, but less in number. Keep asking Allah to grant you such kind of people.

A good man will not make a deal out of education if the character of the woman is good and a good woman will not use her education to make the man feel useless.

[CosmicPathos]

They are out there, but less in number. Keep asking Allah to grant you such kind of people.

A good man will not make a deal out of education if the character of the woman is good and a good woman will not use her education to make the man feel useless.

I agree with that. But as much I want to give benefit of doubt that it does not happen, cynic comes in and tells me higher uni education is associated with arrogance and an inflated sense of self. But yea, I do wish life was as you have stated it.

salam

[~Zaria~]

I think you should be a bit discreet when mentioning people you know. In fact, it is disgraceful how you outed your friend and it wouldn't be hard for people that know her or your friend to identify the fact you are talking about her, especially since you are a regular posters that has already spoken about where you reside and what you do.... be careful.

I have not disclosed mine or my friends identity - so what exactly is the problem?

My friend and I have had a looong discussion about this very topic - and I have actually told her directly that I thought her response was harsh......so neither is there back-biting/ slandering being committed.

Thank you for sharing your sentiments.


:wa:

[Rhubarb Tart]

I have not disclosed mine or my friends identity - so what exactly is the problem?

My friend I have had a looong discussion about this very topic - and I have actually told her directly that I thought her response was harsh......so neither is there back-biting/ slandering being committed.

Thank you for sharing your sentiments.


:wa:

1. Your friend does not it know you are talking about her to other people. Some friend you are.
2. Like I said you are regular poster, so people already know where you reside and what specific field you work in.

[White Rose]

I agree with that. But as much I want to give benefit of doubt that it does not happen, cynic comes in and tells me higher uni education is associated with arrogance and an inflated sense of self. But yea, I do wish life was as you have stated it.

salam

You are right and I think its more prevalent when studying in western countries . I think its the mentality that stems in ones house. Rather the mentality should be seek knowledge to benefit people around.

[~Zaria~]

1. Your friend does not it know you are talking about her to other people. Some friend you are.
2. Like I said you are regular poster, so people already know where you reside and what specific field you work in.

1. If I were to tell her that I posted her story of this forum, she undoubtedly would not mind (which i plan to do in any case). As Ive mentioned, we have discussed this topic at length, and she too agreed that the situation should have been handled differently.
Fortunately, the type of people that I befriend are pretty cool in this regard.....we dont sweat the small things in life or take ourselves too seriously.

2. The population of my country is over 50 000 000.
My real name is not 'Zaria', nor does it even closely resemble it.
There are hundreds of people in my field of work and my friend is in a completely different occupation.
None of my contacts are on this forum.
Truly, it would take a private investigator to be able to determine my actual identity, and that of my friend.

So again - this story, for all intents and purposes has kept all identities anonymous.
There is no harm in this, esp. when it is used as a means of learning from the experience/ discussion, and there is no mockery/ belittling of the concerned individual (which has not occurred).

In fact, many respected moulanas/ imams also make use of their personal encounters/ stories from others, in order to teach others from its lessons.


I thank you for your concerns and warnings.

We should also understand the manner in which Islam teaches us when correcting others: in a kind and gentle manner, and preferably in private.
Calling others 'disgraceful', etc. is not a means of creating good discussion and teaching others.

I would prefer that this discussion proceed back on topic.

Shukran.

[جوري]

And it is perfectly normal for a man to look for a wife less educated than him. It actually fits in with what many scholars have said. Marry a woman who does not have a higher social status than you do. Prophet and Khadijha's example was an exception, there are no Khadijah's today, so dont use that wrongly used example.

I didn't want to partake in this thread as it doesn't interest me, but there are so many things categorically wrong with that statement including what you perceive or attribute to scholars! (obviously no one should apologize for their education) & Khaadija RA was a business woman before she accepted Islam and in the days of jahilya when men were manlier and the women relied more on their wiles and frankly if there are no Khadija (RA) around then there are also no, Umar (RA), Abu bakr (RA), Khalid, Al-motasim etc. either. & you're already approaching the institution with the wrong attitude- You're looking to tame an enemy rather than looking for a lifetime partner at least from what I see you write on various posts!
but it is a little known fact that alpha males seek out alpha females- it isn't something you even have to survey it is the rules of attraction or at least part of the package. No intellectual wants to come home to a ditz. Unless he was simply looking for a sex slave a 20 minute or at best four hour amorous rendez vous aren't a lifetime of partnership with whatever that entails. It is just probably fear that would drive a man to accept less than what he knows he's worth and the same for a woman of intellect. and knowing at least two family members who went for women with no education whatsoever that they were and one of them still has the most miserable marriage I have personally seen the other Allah swt found him a way out and he has no desire to marry again after what transpired!


Good luck akhi though, I wish you well with your choice....


:w:

[CosmicPathos]

I didn't want to partake in this thread as it doesn't interest me, but there are so many things categorically wrong with that statement including what you perceive or attribute to scholars! (obviously no one should apologize for their education) & Khaadija RA was a business woman before she accepted Islam and in the days of jahilya when men were manlier and the women relied more on their wiles and frankly if there are no Khadija (RA) around then there are also no, Umar (RA), Abu bakr (RA), Khalid, Al-motasim etc. either. & you're already approaching the institution with the wrong attitude- You're looking to tame an enemy rather than looking for a lifetime partner at least from what I see you write on various posts!
but it is a little known fact that alpha males seek out alpha females- it isn't something you even have to survey it is the rules of attraction or at least part of the package. No intellectual wants to come home to a ditz. Unless he was simply looking for a sex slave a 20 minute or at best four hour amorous rendez vous aren't a lifetime of partnership with whatever that entails. It is just probably fear that would drive a man to accept less than what he knows he's worth and the same for a woman of intellect. and knowing at least two family members who went for women with no education whatsoever that they were and one of them still has the most miserable marriage I have personally seen the other Allah swt found him a way out and he has no desire to marry again after what transpired!


Good luck akhi though, I wish you well with your choice....


:w:

You just need to pick up works of fiqh in regards to what have been suggested. You'd be surprised to find some scholars were racist by today's standard saying an arab woman should not marry an ajmi man. Humanly work and thinking has to be thought in the context of history.

As for the actual topic, is there even an alpha female? Where did I say that being less educated than husband means she must be an ignorant ditz from a village? What it simply means is "less educated." If you are a doctor, try to not marry a doctor. Canadian stats already show that divorce rates among physician couples are higher than population average which themselves are sky high.

You'll find exceptions everywhere, but exceptions are not the rule.

What do you mean by "lifetime partner", sis? Please dont use concepts which were foreign to Prophet's time. They took a MORE realistic approach to marriage, taking into account humanly behaviors, and hence they did not have much heart aches. They did not view marriage as this super-ceremonious thing you do once in a life. To them, marriage is an occassion of joy but something you just do and nothing "special" about it. Something that is just done with no out of ordinary expectations. To the point, they thought that lack of love is not a thing to divorce for. While today, it is thought if there is no love in marriage, they should not remain married. Yet at the same time, they had many divorces. Just look up how many wives Umar (ra) divorced. So the concept of "lifetime partner" flies out of the window sis.

I pray the same for you sis.

W salam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Do you think it is okay to miss fard prayer? No? Why? Because it is obligatory! it is obligatory for a man to provide to his wife, end of. So we went from asking sisters to be less harsh towards brothers in terms of career etc to asking ( emotional blackmail) sisters to accept a jobless brother? In that case, her father has every right to reject a jobless potential.

Funny, how we are incredibly harsh towards sisters when it comes to stuff that are not agreed upon by scholars. But something that agreed upon, we make an exception like a man should have a job or means to provide.


Also, these parents are thinking of their daughters. You know that announcement we hear in almost most mosque about a helpless divorce woman with kids that need donation? Most parent don't their daughters to be that helpless woman.

she hasnt gone a single day hungry or without shelter.

they are living like travellers going towards their home.


ofcourse the father has a right to reject a jobless potential. did I make it sound in anyway in my post like im forcing every sister to be liek that?

When I said the words "How many sisters" - It was to signify the rarity of this beautiful couple.

In time they most likely will settle down, but they are newly weds and still finding their footing - and the fact taht they chose each other for ISLAM and nothing but truelly is something amazing.



I dont know why you got offended by my post, and dont even say you didnt. it wasnt attacking anyone

[IbnAbdulHakim]

What is the father continues his stance despite the advice of sister/brother or islamic scholar ?
And Its not a hypothetical scenario . It is quite common with the inflation around and seems more to do with jealousy and greed ,when he sees his nephews earning so much and his son is nowhere near as good as them and thus is a loser in his sight

then you ask an islamic scholar what it is you have a right to do.

you tell your father what you have been told by the islamic scholar - give him time to digest.

and when all fails - you do what you have to in order to complete your faith.

[Predator]

then you ask an islamic scholar what it is you have a right to do.

you tell your father what you have been told by the islamic scholar - give him time to digest.

and when all fails - you do what you have to in order to complete your faith.

So we have do whatever we have to ,even if it means being disowned by the father ?

[جوري]

You just need to pick up works of fiqh in regards to what have been suggested. You'd be surprised to find some scholars were racist by today's standard saying an arab woman should not marry an ajmi man. Humanly work and thinking has to be thought in the context of history.

As for the actual topic, is there even an alpha female? Where did I say that being less educated than husband means she must be an ignorant ditz from a village? What it simply means is "less educated." If you are a doctor, try to not marry a doctor. Canadian stats already show that divorce rates among physician couples are higher than population average which themselves are sky high.

You'll find exceptions everywhere, but exceptions are not the rule.

What do you mean by "lifetime partner", sis? Please dont use concepts which were foreign to Prophet's time. They took a MORE realistic approach to marriage, taking into account humanly behaviors, and hence they did not have much heart aches. They did not view marriage as this super-ceremonious thing you do once in a life. To them, marriage is an occassion of joy but something you just do and nothing "special" about it. Something that is just done with no out of ordinary expectations. To the point, they thought that lack of love is not a thing to divorce for. While today, it is thought if there is no love in marriage, they should not remain married. Yet at the same time, they had many divorces. Just look up how many wives Umar (ra) divorced. So the concept of "lifetime partner" flies out of the window sis.

I pray the same for you sis.

W salam

Gonna reply back to you in more details later in shaa Allah- but two important points is that, scholars aren't immune from errors, and simply giving ijtihad on a subject doesn't necessarily mean that it is accurate. There are many fatwas by sheikh Ibn Uthymeen ra7maho Allah that not only do I find unusual just from an islamic point of view but completely impractical all together.. And yes of course there's such a thing as Alpha females or at least people whose personality has natural leadership ability and are outside the box.. Hind is one such character and her character and desires remained so before and after Islam, she's no Khadija RA but surely she did perfect her Islam afterwards and even took from byt al-mal to start her own business, fought in one of the battles- some females have strong personalities and that is the way Allah swt made them, and there's nothing at all wrong with that.
Yes I agree doctors shouldn't marry doctors but for entirely different set of reasons than you propose .. it is a matter of complementing one another rather than being supplementary but ultimately what attracts people isn't going to fall down on a set of criteria. It is what it is.
I also don't agree that marriage to them was nothing special. yes in some instances they were fulfilling an obligation or taking care of someone but there were many stories of otherwise as well.
We all shape our future at least in the parts we're able to with our own hands- I am not going to color this with my personal wants but certainly some statements here should raise a few eyebrows..
Notice I never want to turn this into a battle of sexes, I have too much respect for Muslim men (true Muslim men) who understand their roles to make it descend to a personal experience and I really am hoping something good would happen to you so that your reflections on relationships aren't so frigid and objectified.

:w:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

So we have do whatever we have to ,even if it means being disowned by the father ?

i meant as an extreme circumstance after many many MANY years of trying.

I am not an islamic scholar.


Consult one please bro.

[Rhubarb Tart]

she hasnt gone a single day hungry or without shelter.

they are living like travellers going towards their home.


ofcourse the father has a right to reject a jobless potential. did I make it sound in anyway in my post like im forcing every sister to be liek that?

When I said the words "How many sisters" - It was to signify the rarity of this beautiful couple.

In time they most likely will settle down, but they are newly weds and still finding their footing - and the fact taht they chose each other for ISLAM and nothing but truelly is something amazing.



I dont know why you got offended by my post, and dont even say you didnt. it wasnt attacking anyone

She hasn't gone hungry because other people other than her husband are supporting her. Sorry for spoiling your righteous circle by stating a fact. Anyone that object to you must be offended..... if u didn't like my response you don't have to reply back...

You've written "how many sisters" you wanted sisters to feel guilty for asking a brother to have a job. How can this couple choose each other for Islam when one cant fulfil his Islamic obligation towards his wife?

And how do they even afford a travellers lifestyle with shelter? Either its her parent or tax payer footing the bill....

Isn't other couple like a man on low income equally beautiful, if not more beautiful because he is actually fulfilling his responsibility...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

She hasn't gone hungry because other people other than her husband are supporting her. Sorry for spoiling your righteous circle by stating a fact. Anyone that object to you must be offended..... if u didn't like my response you don't have to reply back...

You've written "how many sisters" you wanted sisters to feel guilty for asking a brother to have a job. How can this couple choose each other for Islam when one cant fulfil his Islamic obligation towards his wife?

And how do they even afford a travellers lifestyle with shelter? Either its her parent or tax payer footing the bill....

Isn't other couple like a man on low income equally beautiful, if not more beautiful because he is actually fulfilling his responsibility...

Allaah supports EVERYONE. even if YOU give me shelter, even if YOU give me food, it is not actually you, it is Allaah!

everything that comes to me, is from Allaah. I will be grateful to you, I will thank you> I will do my part. But thats because Allaah has placed you int he position you are in and me in the position I am in.

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

We should remember that we shoud lead by example and how we behave around others including our spouse will influence them. If a man doesn't wake up for fajr, chances are the woman next to him doesn't either. I understand the reason this thread was started, and yes a righteous husband is key to her Jannah just like a righteous wife is a key for his jennah, as they will compliment each other and help each other stay on the right path or they can also drag each other down. A spouse should be chosen wisely, and when one puts finances first, the likelyhood of choosing a good spouse is slim, but we must remember that choosing a spouse for wealth IS an option. We have these options for a reason and the choices made will be made according to the state of person's heart and imaan.

Going back to the thread title, a righteous husband is key to her Jannah yes, one could say that, but stuff like this seems to create a battle between genders as we can see in this thread. Sisters, lets not foget that Jannah is at the husban's feet for a woman. How? The Quran states for women to obey their husbands, not men to obey their wives...the authority a man has was given to them by Allah.

It has been narrated on the authority of Umm Salama (ra) that Rasul'Allah (saw) said: "If a woman dies in a state when her husband is pleased with her, she will enter Paradise ". (Tirmidhi)
Abu Hurayrah reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said: “When a woman prays her five (prayers), fasts her month (Ramadan), preserves her chastity, and obeys her husband, she will be told (on the Day of Judgement), “Enter Jannah from any of its (eight) gates.”

So I would say, it is best to work on oneself, we hold our own keys to Jannah , Allah has made it easy for us. I understand the concern some may have with parents wanting the wealthy man for their daughters, but everything in our lives happens for a reason and we should make the best of it. If a sister is indeed married off to a not so pius brother, who is wealthy, and she is a pius woman, the hope is that her actions will influence his, her sweetness, support, obedience and companionship can help his heart change. We should think of that scenario too.

As far as Khadijah (ra) and her being a business woman, I didn't see some important points being mentioned. The business she owned was passed down to her by her father, she depended on other men to take care of her business transactions and most of them if not all of them would take advantage of this and shortchange her. One of the reason she proposed to prophet Muhammad (saw) was because he DIDN'T shortchange her and he was honest and trustworthy. So yes she hired him, and yes she proposed to him, but Khadijah was his biggest supporter, she would go see that he was okay when he was in his cave, she would go and climb up there herself, if not she would send someone. She was the first to take shahada, she was the one person who always believed in him no matter what. She was his place of comfort, she listened to him and obeyed him.

As far as the age is concerned, you have to think about the times those were, being 30 years old was considered to be "an older woman", as women were bearing children at very yong ages, lets not forget that Aisha was very young when she married the prophet (saw), and Maryam (ra) was said to be about 12 years old when she gave birth to Isa (as). So regardless if she was 28 or 40, she was still twice married with children and considered to be of a mature age for those times :)

As sister bluebell said, there such a thing as alpha females, and from my personal observation, in most cases they pair up with alpha males, if they both have personalities of natural leadership abilities, then they would compliment each other, and together they are stronger. That's what marriage is about :)

sorry for quoting you again sis lol but I like this part too "it is a matter of complementing one another rather than being supplementary but ultimately what attracts people isn't going to fall down on a set of criteria. It is what it is."

- cOsMiC

[Rhubarb Tart]

Allaah supports EVERYONE. even if YOU give me shelter, even if YOU give me food, it is not actually you, it is Allaah!

everything that comes to me, is from Allaah. I will be grateful to you, I will thank you> I will do my part. But thats because Allaah has placed you int he position you are in and me in the position I am in.

Then sit on your backside and wait to be provided with food and shelter. Fact remains it is obligatory for a man to have a job more so for his wife to cook. It is even permitted to work in haram places if there is no alternative. So your friend should find a job. I can easily provide info about organisation that assist immigrants, asylum seekers etc to settle and find training, employment.

This not battle of sexes, I simply pointed out that for many people, it would unacceptable for wife not to do domestic duties or if she is unable to cook but for a jobless brother, it is a different story all together....

So let back to the title ......righteous man is someone that would fulfil his Islamic duties....which includes having a job or means to provide before he is married.

[Mustafa2012]

I'm with sister Rhubarb on his one.

Unless the bro's family is willing to support him until he finds a job it's not the best way to start a marriage.

Limited finances can put a strain on a relationship and sometimes it can lead to divorce.

The bro has to have a means of providing for his wife whether it's his family supporting them or him having a job or business.

It is the right of the wife that the husband have a reliable source of provision.

We should "tie the camel" or do the best we can within our ability first in order to have an adequate source of provision and then put our trust in Allaah.

[CosmicPathos]

As sister bluebell said, there such a thing as alpha females, and from my personal observation, in most cases they pair up with alpha males, if they both have personalities of natural leadership abilities, then they would compliment each other, and together they are stronger. That's what marriage is about

alpha females (what does this even mean among human species?) pairing up with alpha males? You need to review evolution 101 sister. An alpha male is an animal who is most fit for reproduction and who gets to spread his progeny the most, and his good genes show up phenotypically as him being a leader, respected and admired in society. What is an alpha female among human species?

Moreover, alpha male might of course get along with alpha female, but for time being, then his "alphaness" will pull him towards new territories as well. He is less likely to stick around with an alpha female.

W salam.

[CosmicPathos]

As sister bluebell said, there such a thing as alpha females, and from my personal observation, in most cases they pair up with alpha males, if they both have personalities of natural leadership abilities, then they would compliment each other, and together they are stronger. That's what marriage is about

hmm. How do you explain divorces of ashaab? They failed to complement their wives?

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

@ cosmic pathos

Let's not get smart about the alpha female stuff, You know as well as I do that we are using the term alpha female here as an example to illustrate something, the personality trait exists whether you refer to it as alpha, dominant, leading, head of etc. Just as there are men who are natural leaders, there are also women like this (who lead among women) and in most cases they are attracted to each other. A man who is fit to lead people needs a strong woman, not to lead him, but to assist him and be a strong support to him. Just because the woman would have a strong personality doesn't mean she becomes a competition for the man. I only used this kind of couple as an example because it was previously mentioned. Not all men are leaders, not all women are leaders of course. It is known that men are attracted to women who complement their own personality and vise versa, this isn't news. o.O From your posts, I could be wrong, or perhaps interpreting ur posts wrong ( I apologize if I am) but it seems as though you see women as possible opponents vs possible companions, one cannot enter a marriage with that state of mind. When you marry it is to make a team, this is why being wise in choosing a spouse is so important, which takes me back to what i had originally posted in this thread.

As far as divorces among sahaba? It is possible that their personalities clashed, but we don't have such in depth info on their marriages do we? I highly doubt they divorced over the things we divorce this day in age. Marriages of the sahaba are a totally different ball park. First, there divorce rate wasn't THAT high, even if it was, the re-marriage rate was just as high. No woman went unmarried then whether she'd be a divorcee or a widow. That doesn't happen anymore. We need to remember also that when we speak of the sahaba, these men and women were in a totally different state of imaan, they were living among the prophet(saw). Giving things up for the sake of Allah(whether it be a marriage or their lives), for the betterment of the community was NOT difficult for them. They were truly devout people. Can't compare them to us.

anyway, we may be heading towards a derail here >_< so lets try to stay on topic yes? :)

- cOsMiC

[Signor]

Assalamu Alaikum

Some members here brought the issue of marrying someone(with less or nothing as financial resources.But do we know a HIGH amount of Trust is required on Allah which cannot be acquire by mere words rather,it took many hardship and sufferings when the person in question facing them with patience and steadfastness.This level of eeman isn't available in local markets,you have to strive and consumes each and every bit of yourself in order to attain.For Instance.I regularly before going to sleep Ayat ul Kursi for protection against evil beings but does it works in the way I want it to be if my level of confidence on The Most High is near to none.A famous Incident which I've been listening since my childhood is this one:

In the third year after Hijrah, a tribe of Banu Tha'laba and its allies were preparing to attack Madinah. The Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) set out to confront them, but as he entered the precincts of Nukhail, the enemies retreated to their hiding place behind the mountains.

Suddenly it began to pour. The Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) removed his wet clothes and spread them over a tree for drying. Waiting for his clothes to dry, he took respite under a tree. An enemy by the name of Du'shoor, thought that this was an opportune time to attack the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) unawares, so he crept forward arid leapt with an open sword. "Muhammad, say who can save you from my sword now'-"

The Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) without losing his calm, said, with a firm, resounding voice: "ALLAH!"

And just as the words fell from the Holy Prophet's (p.b.u.h) lips, an unseen power seemed to overwhelm and seize the attacker. He trembled and the sword fell off his hands. The Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) rose instantly, held the sword and turned to Du'shoor: "Tell me now who is there to deliver you from my sword?"

Du'shoor said: "None".

And suddenly he realised that this incident was revealing to him the great Truth. Allah was the Creator, the Sustainer and to Him turned everything in human life. Life and death both are ordained by Allah. So he exclaimed:

"I testify that there is no god but Allah, and you, Muhammad, are indeed His Messenger."

Then he went back to his people to preach Islam and teach them the creed.

Qur'an describes this encounter in the following words:
"O believers! Remember the favour which Allah bestowed upon you. Remember when a group sought to harm you, He restrained their hands; guard yourselves in fear of Allah. In Allah let the faithful put their Trust." (Al-Maidah)

There is also an Incident of Khalid Bin Waleed (R.A) quoted in this regard who proceeded to drank poison in order to show the people that nothing can harm him unless Allah's will.Its all takes HUGE amount of trust on Allah.isn't it?

Regards

[ardianto]

@ IbnAbdulHakim

Maybe you have heard about success story of salesman who becomes company director. But my story was different. I was company director who later became a salesman. :D

That's happened after I fell into bancruptcy due to mismanagement. I lost my company, my money, one of my house, my car. But Alhamdulillah, I did not lose my spirit to 'walk' again. So, I did everything that I could to make money, like became freelance salesman in several companies who was traveling around the city on an old motorbike. How much money that I got from my job?. You would be laugh if I tell you.

Yes, just very small amount. But it did not stop me to still work although I could chose to relax at home and asked my mother and my uncles to fund my family. It's because I worked not only for money, but also for my honor.

I'm a husband, I'm a daddy, I'm a man. It's my duty to fulfill my family needs although it's very hard. And I could not run from this duty because I knew, this duty is my honor as a man. If I ran from this duty, I would lose my honor. This is something that I never want.

I knew, it's very hard to get or create a job, but I also knew, there's always a way for those who are willing to walk.

Alhamdulillah, now I have stable business and can provide my family needs.

Young bro, I hope you can learn something from this. :)

['Abd-al Latif]

:salamext:

Brother, sisters, please someone explain to me something that I really don't understand.

Why are you indulging so much into the rights that you have over your spouse and not the obligations your spouse has over you? Are you seeking something in marriage other than love, trust and fulfilment? Marriage is a give-and-take relationship and you won't have a happy marriage if you can take but can't give.

Brothers: you can't marry until you can be the man of the house and the breadwinner. Unless you're happy seeing your wife being forced to mix with other men, compromising her niqab in front of their ever-lustful eyes because you're too lazy: get a job and be the one who controls the finances of the house. If you can't do both of these together as a minimum then you're not ready for marriage.

Sisters: learning how to cook when you've just had your first baby is not the right time to learn how to cook. Unless you really don't mind having a husband enjoying all sorts of unhealthy fast food from breakfast to dinner to your sausages that are burnt on the outside but frozen in the inside – learn how to cook now. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach and this is no exception for a man who is sincere and righteous. If you can't do what your mum has been doing since before you were born, you're not ready for marriage.

Brothers: being mature enough to work long term, providing financial security and being ready to take care of a family financially is your job alone. Don't complain, just do it and in the process, enjoy the benefits of not having to worry about money.

Sisters: while we've all heard a zillion times over that you want to work because it's a 'necessity', leave the work to men. While women working is permissible (and I'm not denying you this right), focus on that which will bring you closer to Allah away from work. It doesn't make sense to hassle your husband day and night to get a job and then argue with him to get a job for yourself later. Don't step on his toes, let him do what he needs because hopefully he has the common sense to provide for both of you. It is a marriage after all. Right?

It's as simple as that.

Oh and finally, marriage is not complicated. But neither is it so simple and irresponsible that a lot of people think marriage is.

I want to emphasise at this point that this thread is the reason why I strongly discourage brothers and sisters engaging in marriage discussions with each other.

I think it's also very safe for me to assume that no one on this thread is married. Maybe 1 or 2 at most. Hence the petty arguments.

[Rhubarb Tart]

Noone here including sisters mentioned women working...so that is completely irrelevant.

['Abd-al Latif]

Noone here including sisters mentioned women working...so that is completely irrelevant.

Yes, not any more :).

[Rhubarb Tart]

Yes, not any more :).

Most sisters who are married in this forum don't work and this is entirely up to the couple...

Best regards,

[ardianto]

Noone here including sisters mentioned women working...so that is completely irrelevant.

No one in this thread said about women working. But sis, in the real world, when people see a woman who her husbands doesn't have a job, often they give advice "if your husband could not get a job, it's your turn to find a job".

It's not good.

If a wife wants to have a job and her husband allow her, it's okay. But do not ever the wife makes money while the husband stay at home, except if the husband has a barrier that really prevent him to work.

[Rhubarb Tart]

No one in this thread said about women working. But sis, in the real world, when people see a woman who her husbands doesn't have a job, often they give advice "if your husband could not get a job, it's your turn to find a job".

It's not good.

If a wife wants to have a job and her husband allow her, it's okay. But do not ever the wife makes money while the husband stay at home, except if the husband has a barrier that really prevent him to work.

He wasn't talking those women that work whilst their husband don't. I don't think he cares for them....

[جوري]

There's nothing more appalling than a lazy Muslim who doesn't provide for his family.
There's a hadith on it being better to be the hand that gives than the hand that takes. And the prophet once saw a man begging and he asked him what he owns, the man owned a pitcher, he asked who would buy it at the highest price, sold it, bought an axe so the man can work chopping wood and selling it rather than have his hands out.
Let's not make this about a woman's place or a man's place. Believe me I don't know what woman would want to deal with what we deal with unless they had to whether they're CEO's or working cleaning toilets. And I have met such sisters actually with their masters or doctorates and cleaning toilets. Get off this idyllic world you live in and join the living (my post isn't directed toward anyone here but as a general comment) because I really don't want to deal with sheltering egos.
If you feel emasculated by an intelligent hard working woman because you're a lazy buffoon able bodied but can't do the bare minimum then get over it!!!!!!!
It is also better to be a servant who works than a servant who worships. Take heed from the story of Barsisa, those stories are there for a reason, not just for mere amusement!
You can sit all day worshipping and it would mean jack. In fact you working is a form of worship!
If you want to be an authoritarian figure in your house then work to earn it.
As authoritarian as any woman could be, she still wants to be in the arms of someone who will take care of her and is that much more challenging and superceding her in every way. It then becomes dynamic, it isn't about role reversal and I am not sure I'd personally have respect for a guy who prefers it the other way around or accepts less and less because he has no desire to give 100%. Give your 100% and 10% more - give all you can plus one and then you'll know you've done all you can before Allah swt. But don't just leave it be and say the fates are already written!
But a weakling marrying someone weaker.. well that does explain the state of the ummah doesn't it?
Get up do your thing and quit dreaming of the idealism -- it doesn't exist!!!!!!!!!
Make decisions like men if you're men!

:w:

['Abd-al Latif]

He wasn't talking those women that work whilst their husband don't. I don't think he cares for them....

Allah knows me better than you :)

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

I have been told (repeatedly) that I should not judge prospective suitors by their external appearance.
That the man who choses not to follow the sunnah of the prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam), e.g by not wearing a beard, should still be considered - for piety resides in ones heart......(or something to this effect :/ )

What was I thinking by listening to such advises? : (

If the womans hijab is one of the criteria when assessing her state of taqwa......then why does the same not apply for men?
(for those who, like myself, consider the beard as being waajib).

I realise that Allah grants hidaayat and people can change with time......but surely, we should not marry someone, with the hope/ expectation that he/ she changes?

If a man/ woman by their early 30s has chosen not to wear hijab/ a beard, then this would mean that they have made a conscious decision in this regard......and the first meeting with them should not include an attempt to convince them otherwise.

Thank you for all the advices in advance.

But insha Allah, never again.


JazakAllah khair.

['Abd-al Latif]

e.g by not wearing a beard

:D

I don't wear a beard but I do grow one.

[جوري]

If a man/ woman by their early 30s has chosen not to wear hijab/ a beard, then this would mean that they have made a conscious decision in this regard......and the first meeting with them should not include an attempt to convince them otherwise.

Maybe the third meeting then? :p
I have known many people who've taken up hijab in their thirties and even much later... You'd be surprised what makes some folks hesitant.
You could potentially let a very good person go because of a physical appearance & that's not how we're meant to judge someone's character - just sayin'

:w:

[CosmicPathos]

comparing a beard with hijab? really? You feel so insecure in following what Allah has said in Quran for drawing jilbaab that you have to compare it with men "wearing" a beard? Facial hair is determine by hormones, skin pores, blood supply, genetics and tons of other things. Some brother dont grow facial hair at all and others are hairy as a baboon. On the other hand, hijab is a piece of clothe worn to hide satr and is not dependent on hormones, genetics etc but taqwa and desire to follow Lord.

[Scimitar]

Gosh, people are so opinionated over these things, it's rather frightening *shivers*.

Do istikhara, and if you get a good result, say bismillah and go for it.

Life is a learning experience. Sometimes you'll get things right, sometimes wrong. When you get it wrong - LEARN.

It's really not that complicated. Allah gave you Aql (intellect and common sense) so use it for the best of reasons - to get close to Allah.

A successful marriage is based on mutual respect and devotion to eachother, and protection of eachother against the temptations of this world. To help eachother fulfil eachothers Deen.

Just - get - a - grip - people.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

A person's piety doesn't revolve around a beard. Nor around the Hijab.

They're good to have, and it's better it's there, but a person shouldn't be discounted just because they dont have a beard or wear the Hijaab. I know so many people who don't have a beard and many sisters who don't wear the hijaab but are far better people than others who do.

Don't judge a book by its cover. Especially when you don't know what struggles and challenges they face. You are no one to judge.

And yes, piety is in the heart. The Prophet (saw) pointed to his chest three times and said, التَّقْوَى هَاهُنَا - "Piety is here."

Assalamu-alaikum,

I have been told (repeatedly) that I should not judge prospective suitors by their external appearance.
That the man who choses not to follow the sunnah of the prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam), e.g by not wearing a beard, should still be considered - for piety resides in ones heart......(or something to this effect :/ )

What was I thinking by listening to such advises? : (

If the womans hijab is one of the criteria when assessing her state of taqwa......then why does the same not apply for men?
(for those who, like myself, consider the beard as being waajib).

I realise that Allah grants hidaayat and people can change with time......but surely, we should not marry someone, with the hope/ expectation that he/ she changes?

If a man/ woman by their early 30s has chosen not to wear hijab/ a beard, then this would mean that they have made a conscious decision in this regard......and the first meeting with them should not include an attempt to convince them otherwise.

Thank you for all the advices in advance.

But insha Allah, never again.


JazakAllah khair.

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

As mentioned, shukran for all the advices : )

I am satisfied that I have at least given it a chance, as I valued the opinions of those around me.

But its not going to work - and I understand why:

We are all at different stages of our imaan (and Im not referring to the fluctuations we experiece from time to time) - some reach high levels of taqwa very early in life, others at a later stage, and some not at all.
And some may also fall from their level of imaan, if they do not actively make an effort to work at it.....

The man who grows a beard (rather than wears one :P ) and the woman who wears hijab/ or niqaab/ or jilbaab - are doing so, because (hopefully), they have reached a certain understanding with regards to their deen - out of LOVE and FEAR for Allah and His prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).

This has nothing to do with judging someone.

But rather, ensuring that we are on the same page (or at least the same chapter) with respect to practising our deen.

I do realise that, by the mercy of Allah, people can change.
But we should not marry someone, in the hope that he/ she will change......or having the intention to change the person into your line of thinking.

Insha Allah, we all get to higher and higher levels of imaan and taqwa.

I consider it in the following way:

The beard (or hijab) - is a sensitive test, for trying to assess someones direction in life (at that point in time).
However, its not very specific - i.e. there are those who carry the external appearance, but they do not live up to it.
In other words - we may have 'false positives' along the way.....which is fine.

(Ps. if there is a medical reason for not growing a beard - i can understand this. These cases are quite rare though.)


If piety is one of the most important attributes when looking for a spouse.....then we should keep bearing this in mind, and also ensure that you are working on your own as well.

:wa:

[CosmicPathos]

for record, can you explain what being "pious" means? the word piety gets thrown around a lot, who exactly is a person of piety?

[Scimitar]

I know so many people who don't have a beard and many sisters who don't wear the hijaab but are far better people than others who do.

^ This :)

I'm in India atm, and I've seen plenty of men with beards who throw around the worst swear words and cheat others in business (happened to me a dozen times) - now I just purchase strictly from Hindu owned shops, and I tell you all something, they are the best people to do business with here.

One bearded guy dropped his mother off outside her village and the poor old lady (who has crutches) had to walk for a quarter mile before she got to her house.

A beard don't mean jack here...

... In london, my own neighbours on the opposite side of the street have a bunch of daughters who wear the headscarf. 1) it's a camel hump and 2) they wear leggings and skin tight jeans which reveal their aura (body shape).

So the whole Beard and hijaab thing is nonsense n modern day.

I've given you two examples from very different countries. One in the west, and one in the east. I can give you more but I think you get the point.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

guys I find it better to not compare practising with non-practising as it can lead down a bad path of discouragement.

we should just stick to condoning right and discouraging bad without getting into the details. makes life simpler I say

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

guys I find it better to not compare practising with non-practising as it can lead down a bad path of discouragement.

we should just stick to condoning right and discouraging bad without getting into the details. makes life simpler I say

I disagree, if you read the entire thread you will see why the comparison is going on. It is assumed here(in this thread) that piety is equal to growing a beard and wearing hijab, and that is simply not the case. I think, rather than discouraging,it helps people see the reality of things and aim NOT to be such people.

- cOsMiC

[~Zaria~]

for record, can you explain what being "pious" means? the word piety gets thrown around a lot, who exactly is a person of piety?

When I speak of 'piety', I am referring to:

The person who is living his/ her life for Allah (subhanawataála).

Whose every action (to the best of his/ her ability) is out of love for Allah and his messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam)......and if not for this, then at the least, out of His fear.

The one who desires complete obedience to Allah and his prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - which means, that no matter how hard it may be, he is able to give up his desires, simply because it is the command of Allah.
Who says to himself: "My Rabb has commanded. And I will obey."

The one who is in submission to the will of Allah.

Who has detached himself/ herself from this dunya.....and all that their heart desires is the Aakhirah and the meeting of their Lord.

This is my definition.
It may differ for others.

^ This :)

I'm in India atm, and I've seen plenty of men with beards who throw around the worst swear words and cheat others in business (happened to me a dozen times) - now I just purchase strictly from Hindu owned shops, and I tell you all something, they are the best people to do business with here.

One bearded guy dropped his mother off outside her village and the poor old lady (who has crutches) had to walk for a quarter mile before she got to her house.

A beard don't mean jack here...

... In london, my own neighbours on the opposite side of the street have a bunch of daughters who wear the headscarf. 1) it's a camel hump and 2) they wear leggings and skin tight jeans which reveal their aura (body shape).

So the whole Beard and hijaab thing is nonsense n modern day.

I've given you two examples from very different countries. One in the west, and one in the east. I can give you more but I think you get the point.

Which is why I have mentioned:

The beard (or hijab) - is a sensitive test, for trying to assess someones direction in life (at that point in time).

However, its not very specific - i.e. there are those who carry the external appearance, but they do not live up to it.

In other words - we may have 'false positives' along the way.....which is fine.

I do realise that what lies on the exterior, may not necessarily reflect whats in the heart.

And I have chosen my words to indicate that I do not directly equate piety to growing a beard/ wearing hijab.


However, on the flip side: surely, if taqwa resides in the heart for long enough......it should spill over into ones way of life, ones appearance, etc?

Just a thought......


Allah knows best.

And may He bless all our brothers and sisters with righteous spouses.
Ameen

:wa:

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I disagree, if you read the entire thread you will see why the comparison is going on. It is assumed here(in this thread) that piety is equal to growing a beard and wearing hijab, and that is simply not the case. I think, rather than discouraging,it helps people see the reality of things and aim NOT to be such people.

- cOsMiC

I can guarantee that should you do what you believe to be right and work on your own heart then you will never become such people.


I honestly believe simplicity has its rewards

[Scimitar]

Understood sis Zaria. I've known you for a while now, across different platforms / forums, and know you well enough to not address that post of mine to you, but to others here as a general reminder :)

One thing I have to say here is, no one can assess the state of anothers imaan and taqwaa, it's not like we can rip open their chest to see what is inside...

...SO basically, what we need to do when considering a person for marriage is do some research on them, and then consider that they feel they are ready for marriage - so we must give them the benefit of the doubt, and then put our trust in Allah - istikhara.

IMHO, this equates to tying the camel and trusting in Allah.

If we put up barriers for ourselves because we are chasing a bunch of "requirements" then we will only set targets that make married life impossibly difficult to get to grips with.

I've known some brothers who changed their whole lives after marriage and did good - whereas before marriage, they were actually quite bad.

Alhamdulillah, HE is the ONE who guides.

We should be able to trust HIM, especially if we are marrying for the sake of deen, right? :)

[~Zaria~]

Understood sis Zaria. I've known you for a while now, across different platforms / forums, and know you well enough to not address that post of mine to you, but to others here as a general reminder :)

One thing I have to say here is, no one can assess the state of anothers imaan and taqwaa, it's not like we can rip open their chest to see what is inside...

...SO basically, what we need to do when considering a person for marriage is do some research on them, and then consider that they feel they are ready for marriage - so we must give them the benefit of the doubt, and then put our trust in Allah - istikhara.

IMHO, this equates to tying the camel and trusting in Allah.

If we put up barriers for ourselves because we are chasing a bunch of "requirements" then we will only set targets that make married life impossibly difficult to get to grips with.

I've known some brothers who changed their whole lives after marriage and did good - whereas before marriage, they were actually quite bad.

Alhamdulillah, HE is the ONE who guides.

We should be able to trust HIM, especially if we are marrying for the sake of deen, right? :)

JazakAllah khair akhee.

Unfortunately, I dont think I can let go of this requirement anymore.....
It has become as important to me, as knowing whether the person is offering his salaah.
I know this sounds strange.....;/

(Maybe some sisters just want to be able run their fingers through a brothers beard, ok? lol :P )

And I do agree that people can change.
Alhamdulillah - Allah knows best how He turned my life around, in the most amazing ways.
I dont even feel worthy of this mercy, with regards to this....and so, I know that it is possible for ANYONE - even the worst of sinners.....to do a 180.
SubhanAllah.


However, this worries me....

I've known some brothers who changed their whole lives after marriage and did good - whereas before marriage, they were actually quite bad.

Allah knows what the future holds for any man/ woman.
But I do not.
So, I fear taking this chance......esp. if at the time of meeting them, they are not already making a change for the better.

Everyone has made mistakes, and has regrets of the past.
However, whats important, is that they actually feel remorse - and it is apparent that they are re-focussing their lives.


Insha Allah, i believe that if we seek those, whose hearts are attached to Allah, we will have nothing to fear.

The prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) also recommended marrying a 'religious' person - above all other criteria:

"A woman is married for four things, i.e., her wealth, her family status, her beauty and her religion. You should marry the religious woman (otherwise) you will be a loser. "(Bukhari)

"When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks to marry your daughter, comply with his request. If you do not do so, there will be corruption and great evil on earth. " (Tirmidhi)


I guess, everyone may have different definitions of what they regard as 'righteousness'/ 'piety'.

Which is fine.

As long as your partner is a means of directing you towards Allah, and working towards Jannah together - then, Alhamdulillah!


:wa:

[Scimitar]

So, I fear taking this chance......esp. if at the time of meeting them, they are not already making a change for the better.

which is why I recommend doing Istikhara when considering any one for marriage.

If anything, doing istikhara increases you in imaan, because you are relying on HIM solely for guidance on a difficult issue, and not your own ability to pre-judge someone.

Like I said before, we may never know what is in a persons heart. Maybe externally they come across unsuited, but internally they aspire to be better individuals in the sight of Allah most high. And all they need is the right woman, to nudge them on. You know, a little love can go a LOOOONG way. :)

If you believe you can be that woman, who can inspire a man from the sincerity of your own actions and gently show them how to overcome objects that you yourself have had to overcome, through your own experiences - then why not?

If you are considering someone for marriage then do istikhara on it, and keep doing it until you get your answer :)

Allah never abandons one who is sincere in asking for HIS guidance.

[~Zaria~]

^ I firmly believe in Allahs blessing to us, by means of Istikharaah.

However, I think that one has to have an inclination towards another first, before reading istikharah.

I know I may be sounding a little unreasonable......in my desire for the 'Bearded Brother' (Look, Ive just developed a new mnemonic for him - BB : D)
Wish they werent such a rare breed :/

And if I had to look for the ones with 3/4 trousers as well......then, I may as well give up from now i think!

In any case, I trust in Allah's plans for me, and for all of us.

I know all to well, that His plans are all that matters : )
SubhanAllah.

Wasalam

[CosmicPathos]

When I speak of 'piety', I am referring to:

The person who is living his/ her life for Allah (subhanawataála).

Whose every action (to the best of his/ her ability) is out of love for Allah and his messenger (sallalahu alaihi wasalam)......and if not for this, then at the least, out of His fear.

The one who desires complete obedience to Allah and his prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) - which means, that no matter how hard it may be, he is able to give up his desires, simply because it is the command of Allah.
Who says to himself: "My Rabb has commanded. And I will obey."

The one who is in submission to the will of Allah.

Who has detached himself/ herself from this dunya.....and all that their heart desires is the Aakhirah and the meeting of their Lord.

This is my definition.
It may differ for others.

So when you are seeking a man/husband who meets the criteria of piety, do you also meet that criteria? Do you live your life for Allah? Are you able to give up all of your desires? If your answer is no to any of those questions, it is very hypocritical to desire such a man. Such a man, if he exists (I am 500% sure he does not exist), deserves as pious of a wife as himself.

w salam

[Scimitar]

tell a man you like beards, and he'll save a packet on shaving materials. Trust me, he'll probably go for it. ofcourse you need to lead him to believe in it gradually... start with the "I like the rough, unshaven - 4 day growth look" and work from there...

btw, I honestly believe beards don't mean anything today sister... they are used by some to fool others. Say you met a man, who had a beard, talked the talk and married him... then discovered he was a total fraud, how would that leave you?

It's rare to find a man who has a beard, that isn't unmarried, as you are finding out.

I recommend you do istikhara for every man you are shown for marriage... who knows? Don't limit yourself due to cosmetic appearances. Things change. Nothing is ever static in this world... nothing.

A clean shaven man one day, may turn into an unshaven one the next... and vice versa.

I don't think you should place this restriction on yourself, or another.

Also, there's absolutely no way you can know if the man is keeping 5 times salah, until you've married and lived with him. If that bothers you, then you'll probably remain unmarried for a long time, and let's face it, time moves faster the older we get.

[Scimitar]

There were two boulders on a hill, a medium sized one and a BIG one. the BIG one was kept in place by a small stone. If the stone was removed, the BIG boulder would tumble down the hill. The medium sized boulder was next to the BIG boulder... it started to roll, and as it did, it nudged the BIG boulder. \in doing so, the BIG boulder crushed the small stone that held it in place and then both, the BIG boulder and the medium sized boulder, came tumbling down the hill... the BIG boulder picked up more velocity than the medium boulder due to its sheer weight, and reached the level surface/ground first, the medium sized boulder reached the level surface/ground a little later.

Sis, see yourself as the middle sized boulder... your prospective husband as the BIG boulder. The level surface/ground - your piety level at peak.

You, the medium boulder started to move first, but due to your effort, that little nudge, the BIG boulder reached that state of peak piety before you did :)

I hope this makes sense.

Scimi

[~Zaria~]

So when you are seeking a man/husband who meets the criteria of piety, do you also meet that criteria? Do you live your life for Allah? Are you able to give up all of your desires? If your answer is no to any of those questions, it is very hypocritical to desire such a man. Such a man, if he exists (I am 500% sure he does not exist), deserves as pious of a wife as himself.

w salam

Insha Allah, this is my intention and my effort is in this regard.
Alhamdulillah.

Such people do exist : )

It is better to be married than to be single.
But i think it is also better to be single, than in a marriage with someone who does not add to your imaan (and could possibly be a means of drawing you away from Allah).

Its a short life, this dunya......

So, theres no need to fret if we do not get all that we desire.

The aakhirah holds so much more : )

[cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn]

Insha Allah, this is my intention and my effort is in this regard.
Alhamdulillah.

Such people do exist : )

It is better to be married than to be single.
But i think it is also better to be single, than in a marriage with someone who does not add to your imaan (and could possibly be a means of drawing you away from Allah).

Its a short life, this dunya......

So, theres no need to fret if we do not get all that we desire.

The aakhirah holds so much more : )

It's your intention and something you aspire to right? But it isn't something which is completely existent at this time, which means you still have ways to go. So why hold those expectations when it comes to a possible husband? What matters is the potential in a person, if you judge outwardly you could quite possibly end up turning down a man who would in the future become exactly what you always wanted plus more. Scimi gave great advice already, which I agree with 100% so I'm not gonna say the same things again.

Just don't limit yourself, it is when ur not looking and when u let go of requirements, it is when you LET GO and trust Allah, that things happen the right way. This goes for any situation in life. Tie your camel.

- cOsMiC

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Honestly, I think a discussion about hijabs and beards is very superficial. A beard does not make a marriage nor a hijab.

As long as a person is i) practicing their five pillars, ii) have a desire to become better and improve and iii) aim to fulfill their obligations - that's all that's necessary for marriage. More importantly, the questions to be asked are whether the two will be compatible as two people with their own backgrounds and life experiences and understandings, and more specifically will she will be a good mother for my children and raise them in an Islamic manner and whether he cares enough to earn through Halal and will he be good to his wife and a good father to his kids.

Student of knowledge, super practicing, super pious etc are really secondary. Earning income for the family (for the guy) and spending quality time with them laughing and joking is piety and worship in and of itself. A lot of people idealize their married life thinking that they'll stand at night in Tahajjud with their wife who will sprinkle water on their face to wake them up but that's because they have a really narrow understanding of Islam and piety and of married life. Reality is that will probably happen once a year, if at all. People need spouses who meet the three criteria I mentioned earlier and who will help them become better people and help them by happy. That's really all. No need to over complicate. If anyone gets anything more, than it's a good to-have but not a necessity.

[Re.TiReD]

This will probably be my last post on the forum but I just wanna say that when you think about it simplistically, it might make you feel good that you're considering a person for marriage who has a beard or who is a Hijabi...but please, don't judge by outward appearances.

Don't let it make you feel like a better person because a Hijabi will still have her days where she is moody or depressed, she'll still have her days where she'll need to be reminded that it's time to pray, she might have her days where she'd rather sit back and chill with you on the sofa over a tub of ice-cream rather than go to a talk at the Masjid. You know, a Hijab doesn't make you any more pious than a non-Hijabi, it just means that maybe you're further along your personal journey than she is. Nothing more. Help people become more, don't knock them down for what they're not.

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

This will probably be my last post on the forum but I just wanna say that when you think about it simplistically, it might make you feel good that you're considering a person for marriage who has a beard or who is a Hijabi...but please, don't judge by outward appearances.

Don't let it make you feel like a better person because a Hijabi will still have her days where she is moody or depressed, she'll still have her days where she'll need to be reminded that it's time to pray, she might have her days where she'd rather sit back and chill with you on the sofa over a tub of ice-cream rather than go to a talk at the Masjid. You know, a Hijab doesn't make you any more pious than a non-Hijabi, it just means that maybe you're further along your personal journey than she is. Nothing more. Help people become more, don't knock them down for what they're not.

What she said.

[~Zaria~]

My brothers and sisters,

I am really grateful for all your input. I realise its coming from a good place, MashaAllah.

As I have mentioned, my reasons for my feelings are these:

The man who grows a beard (rather than wears one :P ) and the woman who wears hijab/ or niqaab/ or jilbaab - are doing so, because (hopefully), they have reached a certain understanding with regards to their deen - out of LOVE and FEAR for Allah and His prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam).

This has nothing to do with judging someone.

But rather, ensuring that we are on the same page (or at least the same chapter) with respect to practising our deen.

I do realise that, by the mercy of Allah, people can change.
But we should not marry someone, in the hope that he/ she will change......or having the intention to change the person into your line of thinking.

Also, consider that I am not looking for a teenager/ someone in their 20s.
Im a little wiser now (i hope!), and time and experiences has 'roughened' me up some what......
So, I think I am much more focussed (than ever before)......and perhaps this is were these sentiments arise from.

I know of men and families who would never consider a woman for marriage if she does not wear hijab/ cover her hair.
And I can understand the reasons for this.

Perhaps, that same woman may oneday turn a new leaf.
But, perhaps she wont.
Allah knows best.

So, this is not a means of 'judging' another.......but rather a means of placing priority to ones understanding of our deen, and its practising.

Not many people comprehend the significance/ importance of the beard.
Many believe that it is 'sunnah'.....hence it is 'optional'.
I do not want to discuss the rulings on having a beard, apart from commenting that there are many who consider the beard as 'waajib'/ obligatory.
So, bearing this in mind - I cant under-mine its importance.....and its absence indicates a possible lack of this understanding.

Unfortunately, from the brothers who I have spoken to - and who do not keep beards - this is most apparent (in the majority of cases).

Insha Allah, He grants us all hidayat in His deen.


Do not be concerned brothers and sisters.

Whatever is decreed by Allah (subhanawataála) will unfold, irrespective of our own desires.

We pray that He grants us all that is good for us in this dunya, and all that would become a means of attaining His closeness.
Ameen.

JazakAllah khair once again.

:wa:

[ardianto]

Beard and hijab do not make Muslims become pious. But piousness make Muslims keep the beard or wear hijab.

[Paprika]

righteous has turned to richeous.....

[piXie]

..edit...