Censorship on this Site...

[soloqi]

Clearly this site is ----, my posts in the music thread have been edited without my consent and others deleted because they do not agree with a particular brand of islamic fanatics....

You can hide the truth and barr member from speaking their minds, but in the end such action will be come back and haunt them...

[Marina-Aisha]

Ur not helping urself talkin like this also if they have delete some ur posts if for reason... Do get over it stop b**ching.

Salam

[Snowflake]

Brother, adhering to the teachings of the Quran and Rasulullah (pbuh) is Taqwa not fanaticism. Allah says, "And obey Allah and the Messenger, that ye may obtain mercy." [Qur'ân 3:132] If you are referring to the music thread being closed and our stance on music itself then ask yourself where Allah or His Rasul (PBUH) commanded is to listen to music? They didn't. So you can't accuse others of being fanatics for not doing something that isn't taught in Islam. As mentioned before, since the Asahaba, and the men of knowledge who came after them agreed upon music being haram, the least we should do if we believe otherwise is accept that there is a possibility that we are wrong. Imam Shaf'i once said something like, "I know I am right, but there is a chance that I maybe wrong."


Insulting and accusing our brothers in Islam is a very serious sin and we should avoid it.
Moderators do not need our consent to edit posts and promoting beliefs that contradict Islam will be dealt with as Moderators see fit.

"The best Muslim is he from whose tongue and hands other Muslims remain safe." (Bukhari)


As for replying to your post on the other thread, I didn't get the opportunity as it was wisely closed while I was busy compiling a list of Sufi and Bollywood music including that which you said praises Allah to show you that it contains shirk, falsehood and lies against Allah and invites listeners to sin and immorality. Insha Allah, I will post it on a separate thread as soon as it is finished. And as your sister in Islam, I request you to not promote music as being halal, because no one should gather witnesses against them in calling others to what is evil, contains shirk and leads to immorality and disobedience to Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Insha Allah I will give you evidence that music does do this.

[Tyrion]

Ur not helping urself talkin like this

This is true...

Do get over it stop b**ching.

...But maybe that was unnecessary.


As far as the OP's main point goes, he's right to a certain extent. This forum has a history of mods implicitly supporting posts that align with their beliefs, regardless of how inflammatory or inappropriate they are in their wording, and they've shown that they will delete posts that they disagree with without warning or reason. It's unfortunate, but that's just how this forum seems to be run. It's fair to point it out (in fact, I encourage it), but try to word your thoughts a little better next time. :p:

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[Marina-Aisha]

Omg seriously? I wasn't trying to b rude I was stating u shouldn't b moanin over few posts that have been deleted. When I first was on this site my posts were deleted did I make a thread moaning bout hw my posts were delete no I ask the mods they told me the reason. Instead moaning bout it try asking the right people instead makin load of drama for nothing. I'm sorry if I offended u.

[Periwinkle18]

I don't mind Wen the mods edit or delete my posts cuz I hav a feeling they knw whts better n they edit or delete for a reason so one shouldn't get mad.

[soloqi]

Thank you for the reply folks, Hi marina-hadeya..... shame sarcasm cannot really be fully understood in the written form, im sorry if you took me too seriously..

Well im am surprised that this thread has not been delted on closed my a mod after editing my posts, with out my consent...now snowflake you think that is a sin...you did say 'Insulting and acc
using our brothers in Islam is a very serious sin and we should avoid it'...

If you require i can send you screen dumps of correspondence from a mod called Muhammad stating posts have been edited and deleted... I looks like i am being framed.....and slandered...

Also your quote is another translation of the quran open to interpretation we can continue this in arabic do you have skype shame there is some sort of web forum...(mods...)

Islam has not central figure head namely a khalif or Islamic state, so what right does it give you to preach to me..and tell me what interpration of Islam i must follow, no muslim has the right to judge another person, leave that to divine judgement of our creator.

if people prevent others from speaking out and sharing their thought we dont really live in a world where free speech exists, and people censoring others well they have something to fear...im not on here to challenge peoples beliefs but to share our understanding...

some say that the essence of Allah is unity....as servents of Allah should we not better work together to create a place, yet on saying that this place is hell for the believer and heaven for the non believer..so lets play..

[soloqi]

Tyrion - interesting point...if peoples views are censored or mutated by others well that shows the level some people go to make their point valid in essence not allowing the truth to be obtained, and promoting a bias agnda , like the BBC, that only a few share but not the majority...this forum should allow all to be said,
for if we know the truth within our hearts what difference does the view points of other mean..as muslim should we not have courage in our convictions and be strong in our hearts to guide us...

I am hoping that Muhammad might show the rest of you the message i sent him...this may be my last post for a while....

Keep the Faith.

[Hulk]

chill out broseph i can show you my inbox and list of deleted posts too but hey they're only doing their job to the best of their ability and understanding. I know you might feel upset when you spend a long time writing a post and then it simply gets deleted/edited but hey next time save it onto notepad first for your own personal preference and if you're unhappy about how your post has been treated then I'm sure you can discuss it with the mods without having to resort to name calling.

In the mean time..

lol jk

[Futuwwa]

What annoys me is how several mods use their mod powers to forcibly make sure they get the last word in a debate. Either a topic is appropriate or not appropriate for discussion. If it's the latter, though, it's equally inappropriate for everyone, isnit?

To use mod power to silence others while refusing to shut up yourself is to assert privilege, to refuse to practice what you preach (and enforce).

[glo]

When posts get deleted or edited, you often receive a rep with an explanation.
Sometimes I ask mods for clarification, and when I do, I find their replies usually very helpful.

I'm a mod in another forum and I know how difficult it can be to keep order and remain fair. Sometimes you just have to draw the line somewhere and take action ... if at the risk of getting it wrong sometimes ...

[_Y168]

When posts get deleted or edited, you often receive a rep with an explanation.
Sometimes I ask mods for clarification, and when I do, I find their replies usually very helpful.

I'm a mod in another forum and I know how difficult it can be to keep order and remain fair. Sometimes you just have to draw the line somewhere and take action ... if at the risk of getting it wrong sometimes ...

True say sis Glo.

[Samiun]

:sl: look, Tyrion doesn't believe that Music is haram so he wanted to ask questions in the other thread why do people think that Music is haram but still listen to nasheed(with no music) is halal. According to the scholarly consensus that was posted by brother Muhammad it is halal to listen to Nasheed without Music(guitar, piano and etc2 except duff with some circumstances). I am a still learning Muslim and I can't pass what is halal or haram on this forum because I follow Madhab as-syafiee and I follow the Islamic hukm that are being enforced here(my region). With that said, it would only be logical for brother Muhammad to lock the thread as Tyrion or some other member have asked the same question many times and as far as I am concerned all those thread were either deleted or locked. If you look at brother Muhammad's post properly, he took his time and effort to post the links only to be ignored or made as an annoyance. So please, stop and think before commenting on the mods of this board, they are very helpful people and have almost no time on the forums(Brother Muhammad doesn't post a lot, you should feel a bit privilege for him to post in your thread). The mods are very careful when discussing Islamic matters because during the day of Judgement they(mods) will be questioned about how they dealt with us(forumers) when we discussed an issue and how we're handled. As a last note, you should stay around more often to see how they run things here not judge them directly based upon a thread that has been similarly created multiple of times and please don't diss the mods or the members as we are Muslims and how can we expect to move forward if we're not united? Allah Knows Best! No hard feelings guys!

[White Rose]

If the mods didnt delete posts or threads, then this will just be another forum where people will not learn and will bicker over useless things. I am glad this forum has responsible mods. :statisfie

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you soloqi;

I have found the mods to be fair over the years, even to Christians like me, I have had a few posts deleted but just accept our differences I am sure there is nothing sinister behind their actions.

In the spirit of accepting our mods actions.

Eric

[IbnAbdulHakim]

What annoys me is how several mods use their mod powers to forcibly make sure they get the last word in a debate. Either a topic is appropriate or not appropriate for discussion. If it's the latter, though, it's equally inappropriate for everyone, isnit?

To use mod power to silence others while refusing to shut up yourself is to assert privilege, to refuse to practice what you preach (and enforce).

hmm interesting. maybe it should be allowed that if someone pm's a rebuttel to the closer of the thread, it should be posted ith the final post in a way that both sides are shown so that the viewer can determine the truth.

theres no need to hide behind one view, the truth will always be clear to those who are sincere.

[soloqi]

I find it almost funny how many of you have had post deleted and well accept this how very obedient of you all and wll forgive me because i am an advocate of free
speech and cannot understand why others are afraid of what other people have to say...

If i have offended any of you well forgive me, but if i have offended anybody well that show how they are offended by a truth...

the truth goes through three stages first it is violently opposed, second it is ridiculed, third is is accepted as felt evident...

And deleting posts well that is what draconian forum like the BBC does...they have an agenda....

secondly many people keep going on about different scholars and and various INTERPRETATION of the quran...

I will not accept anybody that wants to give the imprssion this is an open forum...

At the end of the day until Islam is united there will be different schools of thoughts.....there will be countless people who believe it is their place to make judgement
and instruct others where is it not their place....As said before Leave judgement to the divine creator.

further more i have not made judgment, i am expressing my experience with various mods.

Any muslim that has a mortgage takes out insurance on a car on property or health well such a thing is a graver sin...but i guess we all follow the rules that suit us.

[Futuwwa]

hmm interesting. maybe it should be allowed that if someone pm's a rebuttel to the closer of the thread, it should be posted ith the final post in a way that both sides are shown so that the viewer can determine the truth.

theres no need to hide behind one view, the truth will always be clear to those who are sincere.

I have a better idea:

The same rules apply equally to everyone. Mods are not allowed to use their power to ensure they get the last word in a debate. A post that closes a thread is only permitted to consist of a statement that the thread is closed, and an explanation why it is closed. Rebuttals to any previous post in the thread are not permitted in the closing post. Naturally, circumventing this rule in any way is not permitted either, such as first making a rebuttal and immediately another closing post, or making a rebuttal and then having another mod close the thread for you.

Or, to ensure impartiality of moderation, how about:

A mod is not permitted to carry out any mod actions on a thread s/he has participated in during the last 5 pages or 3 days.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ good suggestions

[Futuwwa]

I find it almost funny how many of you have had post deleted and well accept this how very obedient of you all and wll forgive me because i am an advocate of free
speech and cannot understand why others are afraid of what other people have to say...

If i have offended any of you well forgive me, but if i have offended anybody well that show how they are offended by a truth...

the truth goes through three stages first it is violently opposed, second it is ridiculed, third is is accepted as felt evident...

And deleting posts well that is what draconian forum like the BBC does...they have an agenda....

I said this in the other thread, but I might as well do it here because it's highly relevant.

The bolded part is a non-sequitur. If people take offense at what you say, it does not logically follow that you are a truthsayer and that they take offense because they don't like the truth. There are many, many reasons why people might take offense at what you say.

Mind you, I have never read the posts by you that were deleted, so I don't have a stance regarding their truth value. What I do know, however, is that by assuming that you are a honest teller of hard truths and that everyone who opposes you must be motivated by impure intentions, you come off as sanctimonious. And nobody likes that, and nobody should.

[White Rose]

The thing is brother, that once you allow freedom to one individual to say whatever he wants, then comes another who wants that and then another. What finally happens is that everyone starts posting whatever they want and instead of creating a strict environment where people can learn, it becomes confusing.

The truth will eventually get revealed one way or another, so no need to get frustrated over it.

[Signor]

[Muezzin]

Serious point - if any forum member has problems with the actions of a certain moderator:

a) Discuss it with that moderator via PM if possible

b) If that is not possible for whatever reason, report the behaviour of that moderator using the report function or contact an admin (the ones with red-coloured names)

['Abd-al Latif]

Clearly this site is run by a bunch of twisted individuals, my posts in the music thread have been edited without my consent and others deleted because they do not agree with a particular brand of islamic fanatics....

You can hide the truth and barr member from speaking their minds, but in the end such action will be come back and haunt them...

:salamext:

None of the mods on Li "censor" any individual and you are no exception to this rule. We do however prohibit anything that goes against the clear texts of the Qur'an and Sunnah.

After skimming over your posts in your last thread, I can see that you defend music based solely on logic, empiric (I.e. based on experience and intellect) and reason. None of these qualify as fields that determine what is Islamically prohibited and what is Islamically permissible, as what is prohibited and permissible is strictly restricted to the authority of Allah and His Messenger. While reason, empiric and logic is used to get al-insaan to reflect and ponder over Allah, His creation and His signs, they are not used to determine the laws of Allah and their correctness as all the laws of Allah are perfect and correct.

This area that you are indulging in to stand up for music is called 'Ilm al kalaam (Arguing and discussing about Islam based purely on reason, logic and intellect), all of which can be summarized as "human endeavour". And all human endeavour is limited, restricted and confined within the boundaries and realms of a human being. If man did not bring himself into this world, who is he to determine for himself what is right or wrong? And who is he to determine what the One who has brought him into this world has allowed and disallowed?

Among the greatest companions of the Messenger :saws1:, Ibn Abbaas has explicitly said that the ayah condemning "idle speech" in Quran is specifically talking about music and singing.

After this general prohibition of all music, the Messenger :saws1: made exceptions only for the days of marriage and 'Eid. The only exception in these days is to beat the duff drum. Even then this drum can only be beaten by women and not men.

I have discussed this in some depth on my thread here: http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...415-music.html

After this explanation it should become clear that we do not allow anyone's posts to go against the Qur'an and Sunnah, including a topic like music. What is prohibited is clear and what is permitted is also clear. But if you seek to dispute this based on calling music "sound waves" without the backing of the Qur'an and Sunnah then we cannot allow such posts to remain, as the reasons for their deletion have been made clear.

Furthermore, if we limit one aspect of something prohibited to "sound waves" then we can also call insulting Islam and insulting Allah and proclaiming false idols as true Gods as merely "sound waves". The truth however is that we cannot because music is not just "sound waves", they have an effect that influence and cause people to behave and act in ways contrary to Islam.

We can discuss this further if you still have issues but it should be made clear by now that we do not censor any individual and the reasons as to why your post may have been edited/deleted.

[Muhammad]

There are a number of problems to point out here:

1. Accusations against moderators

my posts in the music thread have been edited without my consent and others deleted

Looking at your post history since you returned to the forum, I find only one post deleted. The reason for that was sent in an automated PM which you have read:

Reason: Sorry, I misakenly edited your post instead of replying to it.

So accusations about being framed or slandered are totally untrue. This kind of behaviour tends to come from forum trolls who, in last-minute desperation, turn to childish insults and distortion of facts. As you are making noble claims to propagate the truth, one also wonders what kind of truth you seek to promote here if this thread is your idea of being truthful.

2. Using the Helpdesk

The forum has a special section for discussing moderators' actions. The automated PMs clearly state, 'If you have any questions, you can ask an administrator for assistance by creating a thread in the Helpdesk.' Most members follow this request very well, and you would have done well to do likewise.

3. Freedom of speech

I will not accept anybody that wants to give the imprssion this is an open forum...

And nobody has done so. In fact, if you read the forum rules, it is made very clear that:

While some may complain that there is "freedom of speech" please remember this is a privately owned discussion board which was created and is maintained to serve the purpose of promoting Islam. What is allowed in speech is determined by the Admin and not the member...

There are other forums where this type of prohibited behaviour is tolerated or even encouraged. If you can not follow these guidelines while on this forum we ask that you post elsewhere.

If somebody comes on here claiming it is acceptable to interpret the Qur'an based on whims and desires, then describes everyone who disagrees as 'fanatics' and 'fascists', not only have they no idea how to have a discussion but also their views are not worth wasting time on. The very beginning of the Qur'an highlights its purpose as a book of guidance. If you believe your own intellect is superior then please go back and read what Allaah (swt) has said and humble yourself to His words. It was clear from your former stay on this forum that you held some blasphemous views about the Qur'an, hence this is a case where censorship is necessary and why the rules do not allow complete freedom of speech.

Kindly delete my profile from this corrupt site....

As you wish. May Allaah (swt) guide you.

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

Jazakallaahu khayran for some of the comments in this thread, they are much appreciated. For any further suggestions regarding the site, it would be best to create a dedicated thread as this one is not deserving of that discussion.

I'd just like to clarify something before closing:

Mods are not allowed to use their power to ensure they get the last word in a debate.

Having the 'last word' is not always something negative. Perhaps it depends on what kind of 'debate' is going on. Quite often a thread goes on page after page with every opinion under the sun, and usually by people who have very little knowledge and should not be posting in that topic. Or one view has been expressed without due consideration of the other. Or the opinions that have been mentioned are so clearly in error that they promote shirk or go against mainstream Islam/consensus of Muslim scholars. In these sorts of threads, I think it is very prudent that someone ends the discussion on a point of clarification, otherwise it can be quite harmful. Yes, there may also be times when a moderator was not justified in such an action and we are not error-free. But let us not paint all such closures with the same brush. And it should also be noted that there are occasions when moderators avoid closing threads for this very reason and even check with other moderators to decide what is the best course of action.

If there are any further points or suggestions, they can be made in a new thread Insha'Allaah.

Wassalaamu Alaykum.