Why is Islam the only path?

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Right, My first post so I will try and keep it as concise as possible.

I have been raised in the UK, and live in an area which has a reasonable amount of Muslims. We have a Masjid nearby where I would go to learn about Islam when I was younger. Unfortunately due to some circumstances I drifted away from the Masjid, but i remember some of the things that were taught there. For example, the teachers there made it very clear to us children that the only way to Heaven, and to god was if you accepted Islam as your faith. Those that did not accept Islam would ultimately not be accepted by God, and sent to hell.

As I grew up, I met people from different areas of the world, with different faiths and different ideas. I met good people with good hearts and good intentions. I've thought about what teachers have taught me and others, and I'm afraid this whole concept has become completely irrational to me. A few of the reasons why I consider it irrational are as follows

1) This way of thinking completely defeats the good deeds that other people have achieved. There are many people in history who were not Muslims, but have done more for Islam than many Muslims themselves. If we consider people in history who have tried to live for others and when they have left the world, many people have considered them to be a positive influence on the earth, why would their reward be eternal ****ation? This process of thought is irrational, and if I consider Allah to be much more rational than I am then I can't see how he would allow this.

2) Out of the people that decide to read this post, I believe many will have been born to Muslim parents, and possibly in Muslim communities. This would have played a big part into why they are Muslim. I can say that I was born to Muslim parents. I would even suggest that If I was born to a Christian family in Central USA I would have grown up believing that Jesus is the son of God. If I was born to a family in Mumbai, India, I could well have grown up a Hindu. The point that I am making is, we don't have a choice as to where we are born. Where we are born can play a big part in what religion we follow as we grow up. Excluding reverts, if Islam is amongst around 1/6 of the world population, it would be fair to assume that 1 out of 6 children will grow up following Islam at the current time. If Islam is the only way to god, then 5/6 children may be massively disadvantaged in reaching god. Once again, this is very irrational to me and is more like a game of chance, where the consequences for those 5/6 children are potentially eternal suffering, and therefore I have problems accepting this point of view.


Any thoughts and comments regarding my views would be appreciated. For those that oppose my sentiments, I would be more than happy to hear your rationale as to why you do oppose what I have said.

[MustafaMc]

I was born and raised as a Christian in the 'Bible Belt' of the USA which is the southeastern region known to be more religious than other parts of the USA. I accepted Islam as my religion 31 years ago and, except for my wife, I am the only Muslim in my entire family. I have told many of my relatives about Islam, but none accepted it. Perhaps I did not explain Islam to them in the best way, but I believe that guidance comes only from Allah (swt). I do not hold hope that my relatives who have already died will ever be in Paradise, but at the same time I leave the judging to Allah (swt) and if He forgives them despite their dying as Christians then Alhamdulillah. I do believe that Islam is the only religion that will be acceptable to Allah and I know first-hand that the confused and irrational beliefs of Christianity are directly contrary to tawhid despite what they may claim about the Trinity. We were created to worship none other than Allah (swt) and if we join others with Him in worship or if we refuse to worship Him in the manner revealed to Prophet Muhammad (saaws), then who are we to complain if Allah (swt) punishes us or others for those sins?

[Alpha Dude]

I consider Allah to be much more rational than I am then I can't see how he would allow this.

If we accept that Allah exists and that the Quraan is a revelation containing information with regards (and not limited) to: our Creator (his attributes), our purpose here and rules on how to live our lives, then we have no choice (I mean logically) but to believe that he is the ultimate when it comes to rationality. All knowledge, all power, all creation belong to and stem from him. This means anything we can think of, anything we do is always going to be infinitely deficient and flawed when compared to Allah's work. A deficient person with limited understanding can never seriously consider himself to be in a position to fault Allah's rationale.

Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave.

Allah tells us he is Just. He would never put an unreasonable challenge out there. He would never punish people without reason. This can indicate that belief in Allah is so obvious and belief in Prophethood of Muhammad SallalahuAlaiheWassalam is so obvious that people who don't choose to believe it deserve Allah's punishment.

[Aprender]

Like the brother above, I was born and raised into a Christian family and accepted Islam a little over 1 year ago. I've also told my family about Islam and they also refuse to accept it. Perhaps I haven't done enough to deliever the message to them in the right way. I'm the only Muslim in my family and it hurts. Especially during this time of the year.

As we get older and as time goes on, I began to become more aware of my surroundings and my purpose in life so I began to question a lot of things, including religion. A lot of people don't do that. Don't search for answers and don't really get deep into their religion. From that point on I was able to go ahead and study other religions of the world and Islam was the one that fit and I kept coming back to. I didn't want to accept it at first for many years because of the stigma surrounding it. I found from studying Christianity in more depth that the religion did not make any sense at all and was quite contradictory to the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him). I tried for years to ignore it & just "believe" blindly but I couldn't ever get over it and eventually I ended up just saying my shahada. No doubt, life would be much easier and happier if I just ignored it, kept on living the way I was living and just made sure I tried to be a good person and all would be well all the while breaking the very first commandment.

Though strange things your teacher would say. It's funny because it's the exact same rhetoric you hear in Christian churches about those who don't accept Jesus (pbuh) as the savior go directly to hell. All of them. Even the children. Interestingly enough for me the very first time I read a translation of the Quran as a kaffir in a bookstore, I came across an ayah about believing Christians, Jews, and Sabians that would get their reward with Allah. I found that refreshing. Considering that throughout human history there were people who did follow monotheism the way it was originally intended to be followed could get that. And we know that religions have been changed over time. All in all, we don't know what's going to happen to people in the hereafter. Just because we're Muslims doesn't automatically mean that we've got a free ticket to Jannah. It doesn't work that way.

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[IbnAbdulHakim]

My brother you can only truely accept islam when you understand that your knowledge is extremely limited.


can you do this?


If so, then spend a few months working on your heart and asking Allaah to grant you the understanding. He undertands and He can grant you understanding. And understanding is what guides us...


so ask him, dont ask us... ask him !

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"Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave"

I can think of many cases where people have sacrificed their whole lives to helping others, and haven't receieved the 'rewards of this world'. People that have died horribly trying to save others. Mother Teresa spent her whole life saving thousands of children, I can't think of many things more noble than that. According to Islam, saving the life of one person is like saving all of humanity. I remember the earthquake in Japan and that huge problem with the nuclear reactor. There were many people in that reactor that spent time trying to stabilise it, yet they knew that they would be exposed to such a high level of radiation that they would be killed. They saved so many lives, and yet where is there reward in this life? They died saving the lives of others. Can you tell me that they were rewarded in this life for a deed which represents saving all of humanity according to Islam, when that deed is what killed them?

[AdsUk]

My brother you can only truely accept islam when you understand that your knowledge is extremely limited.


can you do this?


If so, then spend a few months working on your heart and asking Allaah to grant you the understanding. He undertands and He can grant you understanding. And understanding is what guides us...


so ask him, dont ask us... ask him !

I agree that my knowledge is limited. That is why I'm on this forum trying to find different perspectives, to see if I am missing something. Its all well and good to tell me to look in my heart and ask god, but lets be realistic, God is not going to sit me down on a chair and explain in detail as to why something is the way it is, otherwise it would be too easy for us wouldn't it. I find it somewhat alarming that your response was "don't ask us, ask him" What is the point of this forum if I can't ask others? This is the typical response that I might get when I ask a controversial question and someone is unable to bring clarity to my concerns. I appreciate you telling me to turn to God for guidance when I'm confused and I will certainly do this. However, if you personally are unable to answer my question, instead of you telling me not to ask you, it would probably be more appropriate for you to leave it for some of the other brothers and sisters to discuss :)

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ its the nature of your question. it requires DEEP meditation and thought


remember our prophet sallallahi alaihi wasallaam spent a very long time alone in cave hira meditating before he was given the mission of prophethood. Before revelation came.

If you wanted words as an answer then my answer would be:

"Because Islam is how God intended us to live our lives and anyone who goes against that is a rebel and all rebels will be punished"

then we need to go into "Why? Why is Islam decided for us?"

Then my answer will be:

"Because God created us and understands us and has created laws and means to which we can best live and be sustained, going against it is to go against ourselves"

but without a heartfelt acceptance of Islam it is VERY difficult to truely grasp this.


Which takes me to my previous post...

[CosmicPathos]

"Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave"

I can think of many cases where people have sacrificed their whole lives to helping others, and haven't receieved the 'rewards of this world'. People that have died horribly trying to save others. Mother Teresa spent her whole life saving thousands of children, I can't think of many things more noble than that. According to Islam, saving the life of one person is like saving all of humanity. I remember the earthquake in Japan and that huge problem with the nuclear reactor. There were many people in that reactor that spent time trying to stabilise it, yet they knew that they would be exposed to such a high level of radiation that they would be killed. They saved so many lives, and yet where is there reward in this life? They died saving the lives of others. Can you tell me that they were rewarded in this life for a deed which represents saving all of humanity according to Islam, when that deed is what killed them?

If that is your definition of a "good human being" then you should put doctors at the top of the list. Every day of our life, we sacrifice from OUR life to help people like you who get ill, sick, and suffer, and many times die. And probably that is why society DOES put the profession of medicine at a very high pedestal.

But it is not all red roses and green meadows. To you as an outsider, as an inexperienced and naive person, doctors might look angels. But you'd know the reality when you are a junior on internal medicine team. **** gets thrown at each other, egos are thrown into the arena on who is "right" about the evidence on when to start pip-tazo and when to stop it. I can go on and on.

My point is just because people do CERTAIN good acts, it does not mean they are good human beings. Even a rapist, murderer, thief loves his children and wants to put food in their mouths.

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If that is your definition of a "good human being" then you should put doctors at the top of the list. Every day of our life, we sacrifice from OUR life to help people like you who get ill, sick, and suffer, and many times die. And probably that is why society DOES put the profession of medicine at a very high pedestal.

But it is not all red roses and green meadows. To you as an outsider, as an inexperienced and naive person, doctors might look angels. But you'd know the reality when you are a junior on internal medicine team. **** gets thrown at each other, egos are thrown into the arena on who is "right" about the evidence on when to start pip-tazo and when to stop it. I can go on and on.

My point is just because people do CERTAIN good acts, it does not mean they are good human beings. Even a rapist, murderer, thief loves his children and wants to put food in their mouths.

I think you're missing the point. It was said to me that for good deeds people who are not Muslim will be rewarded in this life. I then gave an example of when people have done a deed which Islam considers equal to saving all of humanity but ultimately it caused their death, so they could not have benefited from such a deed in this life. I didn't refer to the personalities and characteristics of certain people. But just to refer to what you're saying. A Muslim that does CERTAIN good acts, still might not be a good human being, what does this mean? People that are not good human beings can be accepted by god, but other people (Non-Muslims) that are good human beings will be rejected by god?

[Ibn Masud]

I have been raised in the UK, and live in an area which has a reasonable amount of Muslims. We have a Masjid nearby where I would go to learn about Islam when I was younger. Unfortunately due to some circumstances I drifted away from the Masjid, but i remember some of the things that were taught there. For example, the teachers there made it very clear to us children that the only way to Heaven, and to god was if you accepted Islam as your faith. Those that did not accept Islam would ultimately not be accepted by God, and sent to hell.

This is a christian statment and logical construct. It simplifies the issue to two points and leaves out the entirety of What Islam has had to say, which you seem not be familiar with. You say the only "way to heaven" is God [you should use the word Allah], the term "the way" implies a path to be followed a series of steps to be taken and not simply a passing comment or logical point. so here you are ignoring what it is you have to do, if you look at "the way" other religions and compare it to islam you will see Islam has a clear precise and exact picture of "the way" while other religions are still debating the authenticity and histirocity of there text, if you study there books you see they are more a work of history than revelation and pure guidance from Allah, so they are at a disadvantage as to knowing what Allah wants.

This is why Islam is the only viable "way" to Allah. There is a book titled "The History of The Quranic Text" which deals with the historicity of the Quran and is Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments on this basis.

As I grew up, I met people from different areas of the world, with different faiths and different ideas. I met good people with good hearts and good intentions. I've thought about what teachers have taught me and others, and I'm afraid this whole concept has become completely irrational to me. A few of the reasons why I consider it irrational are as follows

Your defanition of good may not be Allah's do you truly know what men's hearts hide, Allah does.

1) This way of thinking completely defeats the good deeds that other people have achieved. There are many people in history who were not Muslims, but have done more for Islam than many Muslims themselves. If we consider people in history who have tried to live for others and when they have left the world, many people have considered them to be a positive influence on the earth, why would their reward be eternal ****ation? This process of thought is irrational, and if I consider Allah to be much more rational than I am then I can't see how he would allow this.

How do you know how Allah tested them in this world what chances he gave them, you dont know how Allah treated them you are making to many asumptions. Teven Hawkins who has done much for physics and the world does not believe in Allah, what good is that if he hasnt bothered to purify himslef and his heart and become a better person. What men work at is not a measure of there worth, we are here to be tested so if he spends his entire life distracted by theories in space what you perceive as good in actuality is not. You may benefit from it and like for your gain but he has neglected the fundamental reason Allah put him on this earth, ignored Allah entirely in his life and is deserving of punishment.

2) Out of the people that decide to read this post, I believe many will have been born to Muslim parents, and possibly in Muslim communities. This would have played a big part into why they are Muslim. I can say that I was born to Muslim parents. I would even suggest that If I was born to a Christian family in Central USA I would have grown up believing that Jesus is the son of God. If I was born to a family in Mumbai, India, I could well have grown up a Hindu. The point that I am making is, we don't have a choice as to where we are born. Where we are born can play a big part in what religion we follow as we grow up. Excluding reverts, if Islam is amongst around 1/6 of the world population, it would be fair to assume that 1 out of 6 children will grow up following Islam at the current time. If Islam is the only way to god, then 5/6 children may be massively disadvantaged in reaching god. Once again, this is very irrational to me and is more like a game of chance, where the consequences for those 5/6 children are potentially eternal suffering, and therefore I have problems accepting this point of view.

Your arguments are to general and lack the finer details involved to truly understand the subject of final judgment by Allah, If a person in this doesn't receive the message of Islam and hadn't had a true chance to contemplate it Allah will test him on the day of judgment to see if his faith would have been true had he heard the message, it isn't a blanket statement as you perceive.

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How do you know how Allah tested them in this world what chances he gave them, you dont know how Allah treated them you are making to many asumptions. Teven Hawkins who has done much for physics and the world does not believe in Allah, what good is that if he hasnt bothered to purify himslef and his heart and become a better person. What men work at is not a measure of there worth, we are here to be tested so if he spends his entire life distracted by theories in space what you perceive as good in actuality is not. You may benefit from it and like for your gain but he has neglected the fundamental reason Allah put him on this earth, ignored Allah entirely in his life and is deserving of punishment.

The irony in this post is quite outstanding. You're saying that I am making assumptions, and you've provided an example of Steven Hawkings as being someone who has decided not to accept God. Fine, he is an extreme example of someone who fundamentally denies religion and god. However, there are many people out there that are not so black and white with their views. There are people out there that love god who are not part of Islam. One thing I would say though, and I'm not defending people like Stephen Hawkings, is that earlier you told me that I don't know what is in peoples hearts, and only Allah knows. I agree with this, but you also do not know what is in peoples hearts and you do not know the journey they have taken in this life. Therefore you have no right to suggest one person is deserving of Allah's punishment. Take a step back and see that you are the one judging certain people because of the way they have lived their life, when really it is only Allah who can determine this.

Your arguments are to general and lack the finer details involved to truly understand the subject of final judgment by Allah, If a person in this doesn't receive the message of Islam and hadn't had a true chance to contemplate it Allah will test him on the day of judgment to see if his faith would have been true had he heard the message, it isn't a blanket statement as you perceive.

You're saying that my argument is too general, but my whole perspective is that It is not black and white, some people believe that only Muslims have the right to go to heaven, regardless of what happens. I'm suggesting that this is not rational. You have just said that People who have not received the message of Islam or haven't had a true chance to contemplate it will be tested by Allah to see if their faith would have been true if they had received or contemplated the message. What this says to me is that people that were bought up as Christian, or Hindu, or even Atheist but were not exposed to the message of Islam will still be judged by Allah. Therefore if these people are judged by Allah and it is shown that their faith would have held then they will be accepted by Allah. This essentially means that people that were not Muslim on this earth can still be accepted by Allah. This makes more sense to me because it is a fairer method of judgment in my opinion.

Also, just to reiterate, this was taught as a "blanket statement" and is the opinion held by many Muslim people that I have met, especially those in authority. I'm suggesting in this thread that it is not as black and white as some might perceive it to be.

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"Because Islam is how God intended us to live our lives and anyone who goes against that is a rebel and all rebels will be punished"

then we need to go into "Why? Why is Islam decided for us?"

Then my answer will be:

"Because God created us and understands us and has created laws and means to which we can best live and be sustained, going against it is to go against ourselves"

This reminded me of that famous speech by George Bush all those years ago, who basically said that anyone who doesn't accept democracy or "freedom" is a rebel. The underlying tone from the speech was essentially if you are not with us, then you are against us. Do you really think that it is so Black and White? I'd like you to consider that someone who lives their life with the morals that Islam requires us to have but has grown up amongst another religion. They respect Islam and its values but they are say...from a Christian background. It may be that their views are more biased towards Christianity because they have been taught in such a manner. Would you consider them a rebel?

• Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve .

[Alpha Dude]

"Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave"

I can think of many cases where people have sacrificed their whole lives to helping others, and haven't receieved the 'rewards of this world'. People that have died horribly trying to save others. Mother Teresa spent her whole life saving thousands of children, I can't think of many things more noble than that. According to Islam, saving the life of one person is like saving all of humanity. I remember the earthquake in Japan and that huge problem with the nuclear reactor. There were many people in that reactor that spent time trying to stabilise it, yet they knew that they would be exposed to such a high level of radiation that they would be killed. They saved so many lives, and yet where is there reward in this life? They died saving the lives of others. Can you tell me that they were rewarded in this life for a deed which represents saving all of humanity according to Islam, when that deed is what killed them?

You can't say what is and is not a reward from Allah.

A person may have had a million bad things destined to happen to him and for the sake of one good action, Allah may have diverted all, some or one of those bad things from his life. How are you able to make that judgement? Or do you just assume that Allah's reward is limited to money and fame?

However, your problem is more related to the fact that you have your own definition of what is good and decide to override Allah's definition which does not make sense as if you believe in Allah, you have no choice (logically) but to admit that Allah's definition of good (someone who accepts Islam) is correct and your understanding is incorrect.

Please respond to my previous post in full?

[MissK]

Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave.

Is this thought supported through Quranic evidence?

[MissK]

If that is your definition of a "good human being" then you should put doctors at the top of the list. Every day of our life, we sacrifice from OUR life to help people like you who get ill, sick, and suffer, and many times die. And probably that is why society DOES put the profession of medicine at a very high pedestal.

I don't believe he was referring to people who choose a profession which happens to do good in the world, but rather to people who do good from their hearts and truly mean for their actions to improve the lives of others (Mother Teresa, example).

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If we accept that Allah exists and that the Quraan is a revelation containing information with regards (and not limited) to: our Creator (his attributes), our purpose here and rules on how to live our lives, then we have no choice (I mean logically) but to believe that he is the ultimate when it comes to rationality. All knowledge, all power, all creation belong to and stem from him. This means anything we can think of, anything we do is always going to be infinitely deficient and flawed when compared to Allah's work. A deficient person with limited understanding can never seriously consider himself to be in a position to fault Allah's rationale.

I have absolutely no desire to question Allah or his rationale for what he believes is fair and just. I consider myself to be flawed in terms of knowledge and in terms of my understanding and I have no reason to consider my opinion to override that of Allah's. However I do question what some people have to say about the perspective of Allah. This is what my argument is about. I think many people are too quick to judge and too quick to dismiss other people from being accepted by Allah.

Allah does not punish people who have not received the message. If people have received it and don't accept, they do get punished. Any goodness in them, however, is rewarded within this world itself. A non-muslim person who behaves very nice would have his reward whilst he lives, before he enters the life of the grave.

This is very dismissive. There are many people who are non-Muslim. There are Jews and Christians, the Quran refers to them as people of the book and tells us as Muslims to treat them with respect and to treat them with compassion. We are even allowed to marry women from these religions, one of the most personal bonds a person can achieve in this life. Why do some Muslims suddenly think that while we have been told to respect them, we ultimately feel that they will burn in hell once they are dead. I don't understand how people could think this way. To be respectful with them but ultimately condemn them to eternal hell fire in their minds.

Allah tells us he is Just. He would never put an unreasonable challenge out there. He would never punish people without reason. This can indicate that belief in Allah is so obvious and belief in Prophethood of Muhammad SallalahuAlaiheWassalam is so obvious that people who don't choose to believe it deserve Allah's punishment.

I do believe Allah is Just. I don't believe Allah will put an unreasonable challenge out there. However the point you have made is highly disputable. Whether people believe in this message or not depends on their level of exposure to the religion, and the attachment they may have already to their own religion. We have to consider people have different levels of intellect so some people may get a better grasp of the message while others may not.

However a more concrete objection to what you've just said can be found within the Muslim population in the world today. I think it would be absolutely ridiculous for me to go up to a non Muslim today and say "Hey, become a Muslim, its crystal clear what you need to do". Look at the number of sects within Islam that exist today? We have what...over 70 different ways of practicing Islam? There was one way to practice Islam back when the Prophet (Pbuh) was alive. However people over time have managed to break down the clarity that Islam represented then into a massive puzzle today. Even if someone was to convert to Islam, which sect should they join? Who is practicing Islam the way it is supposed to be practiced? I would argue that if Muslims are confused about the correct way to practice our own religion then it is highly hypocritical to say what you have just said to a non-Muslim.

May I ask about your history? Were you born a Muslim? Have you studied all of the other religions in the same depth as you have studied Islam?

[Aprender]

However people over time have managed to break down the clarity that Islam represented then into a massive puzzle today. Even if someone was to convert to Islam, which sect should they join

As a revert, I absolutely, 100% disagree with this.
No sect. We are Muslim. That is all. All one has to do is read the Quran and you will see Islam for what it is. Clear, simple, pure monotheism. Truth stands out from falsehood.

There was one way to practice Islam back when the Prophet (Pbuh) was alive.

Exactly. That's why as a Muslim you should read Quran and study the history of this religion to understand that. If you don't, then of course, everyone is going to trick you into doing things that you should not do. History is there for us to learn from it. Most people just chose not to and end up making the same mistakes over and over again.

I think it would be absolutely ridiculous for me to go up to a non Muslim today and say "Hey, become a Muslim, its crystal clear what you need to do".

I wish a Muslim would have done that to me. I really do. It would have saved me from a world of trouble, confusion and dark, depressing hurt.

I find it interesting that other members here, including myself, offered our perspectives to your questions as converts to Islam from another major world religion yet you completely ignored what we wrote to you. Converts to Islam aren't such a rare thing, really. It happens all the time. Maybe you would do yourself some good by taking a look at the convert stories posted on this forum.

Why do some Muslims suddenly think that while we have been told to respect them, we ultimately feel that they will burn in hell once they are dead. I don't understand how people could think this way. To be respectful with them but ultimately condemn them to eternal hell fire in their minds.

I don't think that. As humans we have no right to condemn anyone to everything. We don't know. Allah knows. It's not up to you to decide that or think that you're better than anyone else just because you're a Muslim and that you're going to paradise. None of us knows what will become of us in the hereafter. As I said before a lot of what you're saying is Christian rhetoric that I was taught in church and it's strange to me that you're so attached to this line of thinking.

What I find interesting is why you're so concerned about the eternal home of present day Jews and Christians or non-religious people. Perhaps you should be spending more time working on being a better Muslim and maybe, just maybe you should get involved in dawah efforts to teach others about Islam then?

[MustafaMc]

I don't understand how people could think this way. To be respectful with them but ultimately condemn them to eternal hell fire in their minds.

You are exactly correct that we are in no position to judge another or even ourselves as being of the people of Paradise or the Hellfire. However, I believe that we can use the Qur'an as our guide to basing opinions, but ultimately Allah (swt) is the One to judge and determine one's place in the Hereafter. Belief in the Oneness of Allah (swt) and not ascribing partners to Him is of first and foremost importance followed by living a life exemplified by Muhammad (saaws) as being in obedience to Allah's (swt) will. How often does the Quran say, "They disbelieve who say, 'Jesus is the Son of Allah'." Can there be stronger words than "Indeed you have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious." 19:89-91?

[Alpha Dude]

I have absolutely no desire to question Allah or his rationale for what he believes is fair and just.

In that case, you are doing it unwittingly. :)

However I do question what some people have to say about the perspective of Allah. This is what my argument is about. I think many people are too quick to judge and too quick to dismiss other people from being accepted by Allah.

I think there is some confusion you have on this aspect. People who do not accept Islam will not be granted paradise - this is not something people are insisting upon themselves, rather Allah has quite clearly mentioned in the Quraan:

Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life. [3:85]

People can discuss and come up with their own opinions all they want but the above is pretty clear cut. No?

Why do some Muslims suddenly think that while we have been told to respect them, we ultimately feel that they will burn in hell once they are dead. I don't understand how people could think this way. To be respectful with them but ultimately condemn them to eternal hell fire in their minds.

I think your word 'condemn' is a little unwarranted and unfair to believe. I as a Muslim don't have the ability to condemn anyone to hell. I don't even know my final destination. No Muslim should be condemning anyone to hell as they have no authority whatsoever to do so. For one thing, until they are alive, there is always a chance they could accept Islam and conversely, until we are alive, we could end up losing our faith. So, faith is something that should never be taken for granted. Anyone who does so is being prideful and arrogant. These are attitudes vehemently disliked by Allah. A person with even an atom's worth of pride will not enter heaven, as has been revealed.

Let me give you an analogy to think about. Let's say your best friend leads a life of crime. You wish him the best, you advise him a number of times but he carries on regardless. Would you be wrong if you thought to yourself: 'the path he is on currently is wrong and may ultimately lead him to a life sentence in jail'.

Of course not. Just by you thinking this does not mean you are directly wishing him to be in jail. It's just a conclusion that you have derived based on the present circumstance. This is similar to if a Muslim were to think his non-Muslim friend is going to end up in hell if he doesn't accept Islam before his death.

I do believe Allah is Just. I don't believe Allah will put an unreasonable challenge out there. However the point you have made is highly disputable. Whether people believe in this message or not depends on their level of exposure to the religion, and the attachment they may have already to their own religion. We have to consider people have different levels of intellect so some people may get a better grasp of the message while others may not.

However a more concrete objection to what you've just said can be found within the Muslim population in the world today. I think it would be absolutely ridiculous for me to go up to a non Muslim today and say "Hey, become a Muslim, its crystal clear what you need to do". Look at the number of sects within Islam that exist today? We have what...over 70 different ways of practicing Islam? There was one way to practice Islam back when the Prophet (Pbuh) was alive. However people over time have managed to break down the clarity that Islam represented then into a massive puzzle today. Even if someone was to convert to Islam, which sect should they join? Who is practicing Islam the way it is supposed to be practiced? I would argue that if Muslims are confused about the correct way to practice our own religion then it is highly hypocritical to say what you have just said to a non-Muslim.

Allah says guidance is in his hands. We can just pass on the message (our duty to do so, in fact) but it is not in our ability to give them faith. Some people are less prone toward acceptance and others are more readily accepting. It's not so much related to intellect but rather purity of heart, sincerity and intention. An unbiased clear minded sincere person would readily be able to deduce the truth when presented by it by the blessing of Allah whereas an egotistic person who has many bad character traits may find it much much more difficult to let go (if at all) of his preconceived notions and accept faith.

There are many millions of people throughout history and numerous thousands living currently who have accepted Islam despite the different sects out there. If they can do it, there is no reason to think others can't. That's unwarranted pessimism. It's just an excuse, actually.

I will say though that a person who has a sincere heart and seeks Allah's guidance, he will be guided as is the promise of Allah. We are told that if we go walking toward him, he comes running toward us. Any non-muslim who wholeheartedly desires guidance and becomes a Muslim will be guided to the correct path.

May I ask about your history? Were you born a Muslim? Have you studied all of the other religions in the same depth as you have studied Islam?

I was born Muslim and have not studied other religions to the depth that I have studied Islam. If the point you are trying to make is that there are many non-Muslims out there who don't study Islam to the level that they study their own religion and ergo they are unlikely to become Muslim, then I again tell you that you are unwittingly calling into question Allah's justice, as he (not me, not you, not anyone else) has made clear in the Quraan that no other religion apart from Islam will be accepted from us (the exception being someone who has not heard the message or possibly heard it in a very distorted manner).

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As a revert, I absolutely, 100% disagree with this.
No sect. We are Muslim. That is all. All one has to do is read the Quran and you will see Islam for what it is. Clear, simple, pure monotheism. Truth stands out from falsehood.

How can you disagree with this? Look at the state of the Ummah today. How can you deny that there are many Muslims that follow different sects etc. Parents don't let their children marry outside of their caste, even if the other person is a Muslim. You're telling me that it is not confusing from an outside perspective? Yes I completely agree with you that the only things a Muslim needs to know about is the Quran to see Islam for what it is. However you cannot disagree that people do more than this, some people quibble about which Hadiths are authentic and which they should follow and not follow. Its easy for you to say "No sect, we are Muslim" but that is your perspective (and one that I completely agree with) however many Muslims in this world today do not and you cannot deny that I'm afraid.

I find it interesting that other members here, including myself, offered our perspectives to your questions as converts to Islam from another major world religion yet you completely ignored what we wrote to you. Converts to Islam aren't such a rare thing, really. It happens all the time. Maybe you would do yourself some good by taking a look at the convert stories posted on this forum.

What indication have I given you that I am ignoring what people are saying on this forum? I've read the comments about the person who studied various religions and kept coming back to Islam. This shows me that this religion made the most sense to him and he considers it the truth. I also never said that converts to Islam are a rare thing. I also appreciate that Islam is the fastest growing religion int he world today.

I don't think that. As humans we have no right to condemn anyone to everything. We don't know. Allah knows. It's not up to you to decide that or think that you're better than anyone else just because you're a Muslim and that you're going to paradise. None of us knows what will become of us in the hereafter. As I said before a lot of what you're saying is Christian rhetoric that I was taught in church and it's strange to me that you're so attached to this line of thinking.

You're telling me that none of us knows what will become of us in the hereafter, I agree, and yes we have no right to condemn anyone regardless of what they have done in their life. This is the point that I have tried to make. However some people are not of this opinion, and some of them have made that clear during this thread. You refer to it as "Christian Rhetoric" and I know what you mean. I've heard many Christians say that the only way to God is to accept Jesus as your Lord. I've heard them say that you can only find Paradise through Christianity. However, I have also heard many Muslims say this as well, growing up, in the Media and otherwise. Would you also be willing to refer to this as "Rhetoric"?

What I find interesting is why you're so concerned about the eternal home of present day Jews and Christians or non-religious people. Perhaps you should be spending more time working on being a better Muslim and maybe, just maybe you should get involved in dawah efforts to teach others about Islam then?

You find it interesting that I am concerned with this? Of course I am concerned. I am discussing the points that I want to gain a better of understanding of. I'm not discussing the points of view that certain people have which I wholeheartedly agree with. I'm referring to points and principles people have who are Muslim but do not make sense with my perception of Islam and I'm here trying to gain their perspective as to why, and yes I am arguing their points with my point of view because that is the reason I have started this discussion. I find your final sentiments somewhat condescending about me trying to be a better Muslim. What do you think I'm doing on an Islamic Forum asking questions if it is not to gain a better understand of Islam and to become a better Muslim?

[CosmicPathos]

How can you disagree with this? Look at the state of the Ummah today. How can you deny that there are many Muslims that follow different sects etc. Parents don't let their children marry outside of their caste, even if the other person is a Muslim. You're telling me that it is not confusing from an outside perspective? Yes I completely agree with you that the only things a Muslim needs to know about is the Quran to see Islam for what it is. However you cannot disagree that people do more than this, some people quibble about which Hadiths are authentic and which they should follow and not follow. Its easy for you to say "No sect, we are Muslim" but that is your perspective (and one that I completely agree with) however many Muslims in this world today do not and you cannot deny that I'm afraid.

What's wrong with that? Since when has marriage dos and donts in Islam and in one's culture become directly linked with the authenticity of Islam as a religion revealed by God to make Himself known?

[M.I.A.]

imo,

islam is the only path because it is the last and complete message.

but..

even if all the world were muslim, you would still have to live your life and make your own decisions.

and that would require a whole new understanding.


sure you would all pray in the same manner.. and all the good that does.. and all its benefits.

but we would all still differ.


so why is islam the only path?


you might as well ask us what we believe in and how we justify it.


i guess that until the day the veil is lifted, none are really sure.

i believe that if islam were known by any other name then it would still be islam.

just as the same monotheistic god has inspired Jews, Christians and Muslims.


sure they may hate each other, but sooner or later you realise its like growling at a pond.

sure you cant accept each other,

but for every extremist there is one on the other side.

for every plan there is a counter.

the losses are settled even if its at each side of the string.


and even those that persist in wronging themselves are part of it.


if you really want to understand about the world and god, then you have to let go.

submit.


and the easiest and hardest wins are within yourself.


you cant change the world now can you?

you cant change the people around you.. they all believe differently.

but you can try damage limitation of the self.. a carbon footprint of the soul.


...in intention anyway.

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What's wrong with that? Since when has marriage dos and donts in Islam and in one's culture become directly linked with the authenticity of Islam as a religion revealed by God to make Himself known?

You're asking a direct question the response I have made from what the other person said. Look back and see why I answered in this manner and you'll see what I'm trying to say. That was just an example I gave.

But just to respond to what you've just said, Where in Islam does it forbid the marriage of one person to another if they are both Muslim? What's wrong with the cultural aspect linked to Islam. Are you serious? I thought Islam was supposed to be one message, now we have 70+ different versions of this message and you're asking whats wrong with that?

[CosmicPathos]

You're asking a direct question the response I have made from what the other person said. Look back and see why I answered in this manner and you'll see what I'm trying to say. That was just an example I gave.

But just to respond to what you've just said, Where in Islam does it forbid the marriage of one person to another if they are both Muslim? What's wrong with the cultural aspect linked to Islam. Are you serious? I thought Islam was supposed to be one message, now we have 70+ different versions of this message and you're asking whats wrong with that?

how is "marriage" restrictions, which vary from one culture to another, related to islam's msg? Islam's msg is to turn to Allah.