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theplains
12-17-2012, 09:56 PM
One translation (quran4u dot com) says in sura 2:36:

"Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of
felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity
between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood
for a time".

Did the Garden of Eden exist on another planet?

Thanks,
Jim
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جوري
12-17-2012, 10:07 PM
What gave you the idea that the garden of Eden is on another planet?
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ardianto
12-17-2012, 11:44 PM
Oliver Stone made the movie: Heaven and Earth. Al Jarreau sang the song: Heaven and Earth. Does it means they regard that heaven is on other planet?.
Reply

theplains
12-19-2012, 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
What gave you the idea that the garden of Eden is on another planet?
I saw some commentary at this Muslim's site: www dot quran4u dot com , Tafsiraya , 002 Baqarah.pdf

He asked, "Was the Garden of Eden a place on this earth?"

"Obviously not. For, in verse 36 below, it was after the Fall that the sentence was pronounced:
"On earth will be
your dwelling." Before the Fall, we must suppose Man to be on another plane
altogether - of felicity, innocence, trust, a spiritual
existence, with the negation of enmity,
want of faith, and
all evil. (R)".

What is your opinion?

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

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جوري
12-19-2012, 10:14 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
What is your opinion?
Does heaven = to another planet in your book?
My opinion is that Adam & spouse were expelled from Paradise, we can't speculate on where that is!

best,
Reply

Hulk
12-19-2012, 11:04 PM
Perhaps the problem is your assumption that all that exists is only that which is in our physical realm. So just because Adam and Eve(peace be upon them) was not on earth you concluded that they must have been on another planet? On another note, what do you hope yo achieve in finding the answer to this question? How will it benefit you? Why don't you ask something like "Should I worship God alone without ascribing any partners to Him?". Seems like a more beneficial question to ask.
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theplains
12-22-2012, 12:02 AM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
Does heaven = to another planet in your book?
My opinion is that Adam & spouse were expelled from Paradise, we can't speculate on where that is!

best,
Regarding the location on the Garden of Eden, I found this good explanation
at gotquestions dot org:

"The only thing the Bible tells us concerning the Garden of Eden’s
location is found in Genesis 2:10-14, “A river watering the garden
flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.
The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land
of Havilah, where there is gold…The name of the second river is the
Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. The name of the third
river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the
fourth river is the Euphrates.” The exact identities of the Pishon and
Gihon Rivers is unknown, but the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers are well
known.

If the Tigris and Euphrates mentioned are the same rivers by those
names today, that would put the Garden of Eden somewhere in the Middle
East, likely in Iraq. It cannot be mere coincidence that the Middle
East region is where the planet was most lush—the place where the
Garden of Eden was. If oil is, as most scientists believe, primarily
decayed vegetation and animal matter, then this is the area where we
might expect to find the greatest deposits of oil. Since the Garden
was the epitome of perfection, it stands to reason that the
decomposition of the earth’s most perfect and lush organic materials
would produce vast stores of the earth’s best oil.

People have searched for the Garden of Eden for centuries to no avail.
There are various locations that people claim as the original location
of the Garden of Eden, but we cannot be sure. What happened to the
Garden of Eden? The Bible does not specifically say. It is likely that
the Garden of Eden was completely destroyed in the Flood or that it
lies decomposing into oil buried beneath centuries of sand deposits".


You asked, "Does another plane = to planet in your book?' What does that
mean?

When I see the words in the Quran, "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity
between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of
livelihood for a time
", it seems like they are being told to get down to earth
where they would live - implying that they are not in a Garden on this earth
but rather somewhere on another planet or a Garden in the sky.

Does this sound plausible?

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

جوري
12-22-2012, 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Does this sound plausible?
If you got your research from a certain site on the web and I think we both know which I decided to delete it, since it is a shiite site.
then why do you pick and choose which parts to subscribe to and which to ignore? Provided the net is the medium you've chosen for your education.

No, Adam & wife weren't from another 'planet' they were in heaven and descended therefrom, how that took place or where that place, was is utterly inconsequential and there's nothing further on the matter to impart!

best,
Reply

theplains
12-23-2012, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
No, Adam & wife weren't from another 'planet' they were in heaven and descended therefrom,
Would you provide a verse in the Quran or Hadiths which shows the Garden of Eden was in
heaven? Or are you speculating?

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

جوري
12-23-2012, 11:42 PM
just one verse?

sure, there ya go:

7 22 1 -
Sahih International
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"

best,

Reply

Abz2000
12-24-2012, 05:31 AM
Would you provide a verse in the Quran or Hadiths which shows the Garden of Eden was in
heaven? Or are you speculating?
location is found in Genesis 2:10-14, “A river watering the garden
flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Saihan, Jaihan, Euphrates and Nile are all among the rivers of Paradise. *
Sahih Muslim - Book of Paradise - 6807


إِنَّ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَعَمِلُوا الصّٰلِحٰتِ أُولٰئِكَ هُم خَيرُ البَرِيَّةِ

Those who have faith and do righteous deeds,- they are the best of creatures.

Yجَزاؤُهُم عِندَ رَبِّهِم جَنّٰتُ عَدنٍ تَجرى مِن تَحتِهَا الأَنهٰرُ خٰلِدينَ فيها أَبَدًا ۖ رَضِىَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم وَرَضوا عَنهُ ۚ ذٰلِكَ لِمَن خَشِىَ رَبَّهُ

Their reward is with Allah: Gardens of Eternity, beneath which rivers flow; they will dwell therein for ever; Allah well pleased with them, and they with Him: all this for such as fear their Lord and Cherisher.

verses 7-8 of chapter 98. البينة - Holy Quran
Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

Where he translated "Gardens of Eternity"
It says in Arabic جَنّٰتُ عَدنٍ which is JANNATU 'ADN
which could mean "Garden of Eden", or hidden Eden.
You'll also find that the term Eden used in English is an untranslated variation of a semitic word (most likely Hebrew or Aramaic).

So, if you assume God will send you to the middle east after you die, you'd also probably come to the idea that you can buy a plane ticket to paradise for around £400+vat, and that condolezza rice goes there regularly, and that Halliburton even get contracts there.

The Jews say that God promised to give them a land flowing with milk and honey so they claimed it's Palestine.
I have yet to see that discovery of any rivers of that type there.

Here's what the Quran tell us:

مَثَلُ الجَنَّةِ الَّتى وُعِدَ المُتَّقونَ ۖ فيها أَنهٰرٌ مِن ماءٍ غَيرِ ءاسِنٍ وَأَنهٰرٌ مِن لَبَنٍ لَم يَتَغَيَّر طَعمُهُ وَأَنهٰرٌ مِن خَمرٍ لَذَّةٍ لِلشّٰرِبينَ وَأَنهٰرٌ مِن عَسَلٍ مُصَفًّى ۖ وَلَهُم فيها مِن كُلِّ الثَّمَرٰتِ وَمَغفِرَةٌ مِن رَبِّهِم ۖ كَمَن هُوَ خٰلِدٌ فِى النّارِ وَسُقوا ماءً حَميمًا فَقَطَّعَ أَمعاءَهُم

English-YusufAli translation
______________________________

(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised:
in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?

Quran chapter 47, verse 15

Those are all from Hadith and Quran,
Hope that clears up some misconceptions
Reply

theplains
12-24-2012, 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
just one verse?

sure, there ya go:

You misunderstood my question. Would you provide a verse in the Quran or Hadiths which shows the
Garden of Eden was in heaven?

Thanks,
Jim

Reply

Insaanah
12-24-2012, 09:59 PM
Greetings Jim.

I think it would be prudent for you to know that the Bible and the Qur'an differ in their approach to the story of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them both). They differ in the amount and type of information they provide, how it is presented, and the objectives of the stories. The Biblical account is more like a historical narrative, a story, with times, locations, and descriptions of places, things, and persons.

The Qur'an on the other hand, uses scenes from the story of Adam and Eve, distributed in different parts, for moral purposes within specific contexts. The repetition of scenes from the story throughout the Qur'an makes it much more effective than if it were left at the beginning of chapter 1, as in the Bible. God calls on Muslims to read the Qur'an learn it, and listen to it intently when it is recited. These stories can be read in daily prayers, and are listened to on TV and radio, and recited during Ramadan, so that Muslims hear the whole book regularly from the beginning to the end. This keeps the story and its morals and lessons alive and effective in the minds of the believers. What is mentioned is mentioned for the lessons to be drawn from it, rather than for the story itself, and as such there are less physical details.

The Qur'an tells the story of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them both) for moral purposes. They were both admitted to the garden, the location of which is not specified nor necessary, and both warned against eating from one particular tree, the nature of which is not specified nor necessary. They were warned that if they ate from the tree, they would be wrong-doers and that if they listened to Satan, he would cause them to be deprived of the garden. Satan had said that he would do his best to mislead humans. Placing Adam and Eve in the garden gave them their first experience of dealing with this challenge. In the Qur'an, it is clear that from the beginning, man was meant to live on earth and have the moral capacity to judge between good and evil and the freedom to choose between them. After eating from the tree, they had to leave the garden, but both of them repented and were forgiven by God. Their repentance was fully accepted.

This lesson for all the descendants of Adam tells us that we, as humans, have the freedom to choose, to err, and to repent sincerely if we wish, and should we do so, we will find Allah, Forgiving, Merciful. And that we need to be careful of Satan trying to mislead us. The door of repentance open to Adam is always open to us, prior to the point of death.

The name of what they ate from the tree, or where this garden or paradise was, is not needed nor necessary, in the face of the story told and the huge lesson learnt. Allah tells us only what He deems necessary for us to know to grasp the story, and learn the lesson contained within it, not intricate little details that we might otherwise get sidetracked on. In some places in the Qur'an, even individuals are mentioned without names. If the individual is righteous, that is mentioned. If he did a good deed, that is mentioned as being good. Enough detail is given for the message to be understood, without getting bogged down intricate details. We must remember that the Qur'an is above all, a book of guidance. In the Qur'an, it isn't about long detailed historical narratives, but what is mentioned is mentioned for the lessons and morals contained within it. Had there been any benefit to us by knowing exactly where this garden/paradise was, Allah would have mentioned it for us, as He did with some other things in the Qur'an.

Adam - The Location of Adam and Eve's Paradise

The location of this Paradise is unknown to us. The Qur'an did not reveal it, and the commentators had five different opinions. Some said that it was the paradise of our refuge and that its place was heaven. Others negated that statement because if it was the paradise of refuge, Iblis would have been forbidden admission and disobedience would have been forbidden as well. Still others said that it was another paradise that was created by Allah for Adam and Eve. A fourth group said that it was a paradise on the earth, located in a high place. Another group of commentators accept what was in the Qur'an without questioning where this paradise was located. We agree with this last opinion, as the lesson we learn from its location is immaterial compared to the lesson we learn from the events that took place there.
http://www.alim.org/library/biograph...and%20Eve%2526

And Allah knows best.
Reply

theplains
12-25-2012, 12:14 AM
Originally Posted by Insaanah
The location of this Paradise is unknown to us. The Qur'an did not reveal it, and the commentators had five different opinions.
Thank you for your very good explanation.

Another forum user, in post #8, created some uncertainty because she said Adam and Eve were
in the Garden (in heaven), but could not provide any specific references.

Jim
Reply

ardianto
12-25-2012, 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
"Was the Garden of Eden a place on this earth?"
There are many archaeologists in the world, including Muslim archaeologists. But no one of them ever found traces of Garden of Eden on any place in the earth.
Reply

Hulk
12-25-2012, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Thank you for your very good explanation.

Another forum user, in post #8, created some uncertainty because she said Adam and Eve were
in the Garden (in heaven), but could not provide any specific references.

Jim
No, all she did was share an opinion that the Garden is in Paradise which is one of the opinions held by commenters as Sis Insaanah quoted. Makes more sense than thinking "since it wasn't on earth it must've been on another planet". Isn't it better to see the weakness in ourselves rather than blame others for our own lack of understanding.
Reply

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