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theplains
01-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Sura 2:47 and 2:122 say, "O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I
have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds"
(quran.com).

Another version has it worded a little differently. "O Children of Israel!
Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred
you to (all) creatures" (quranexplorer.com).

According to the Quran/Hadiths, why were the children of Israel (Jacob)
preferred over the children of Ishmael (Isaac's brother), or even Esau (Jacob's
brother)?

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

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جوري
01-11-2013, 04:23 AM

Perhaps you should read the entire Quran not selective verses and put them in proper chronology?

We're in fact the best Ummah, and the one that will make the prophet proud :ia: on the day of judgement when every prophet comes with his work and some will have one, and some will have a few like Lut :saws: the prophet Mohammed will come with billions :ia:
Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)[3:110]attention 1 - [RECITE]
[top] [next match]

3 110 1 -
Kuntum khayra ommatin okhrijat lilnnasi tamuroona bialmaAAroofi watanhawna AAani almunkari watuminoona biAllahi walaw amana ahlu alkitabi lakana khayran lahum minhumu almuminoona waaktharuhumu alfasiqoona
3:110 Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

the verse you quoted merely speaks of the Muslims of their time, the true and only monotheists whom God has guided over the disbelievers until they themselves became disbelievers and Idolators.

see the verse I quoted. Muslims :ia: are the best of people!

Reply

theplains
01-11-2013, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
Perhaps you should read the entire Quran not selective verses and put them in proper chronology?

the verse you quoted merely speaks of the Muslims of their time,
You misunderstood my question. It is not about chronology. I understand your point about 3:110 (Ye are
the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in
Allah), but why did the Quran record God "preferred you [the Children of Israel] to (all) creatures" (where
all creatures would include the children of Ishmael and Esau for example)?

As a sign of the favour that God granted the Children of Israel in 2:47, Sura 5:21 further says: "O my people,
enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you" (quran.com). Does the Quran ever say the Holy Land
was assigned to someone else?

Thanks,
Jim

Reply

جوري
01-11-2013, 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
You misunderstood my question. It is not about chronology. I understand your point about 3:110 (Ye are
the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in
Allah), but why did the Quran record God "preferred you [the Children of Israel] to (all) creatures" (where
all creatures would include the children of Ishmael and Esau for example)?
I am not sure why you are having such a difficult time registering what is being said? They were the believers of their time hence the chronology. The children of Israel were an ummah before our ummah. The Ummah of the believers is preferred over all mankind simply because mankind of the time i.e the remnants of people of Aad were an evil folks. hence the rest of the verses. Please try to read the entire verses. Yes Allah :swt: praised but then what did they do?


5:20 to top

5 20 1 -
{ و } اذكر { إذ قال موسى لقومه يا قوم اذكروا نعمة الله عليكم إذ جعل فيكم } أي منكم { أنبياء وجعلكم ملوكا } أصحاب خدم وحشم { وآتاكم ما لم يؤت أحدا من العالمين } من المن والسلوى وفلق البحر وغير ذلك .
Sahih International
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Moses said to his people, "O my people, remember the favor of Allah upon you when He appointed among you prophets and made you possessors and gave you that which He had not given anyone among the worlds.

5:21 to top

5 21 1 -
{ يا قوم ادخلوا الأرض المقدَّسة } المطهرة { التي كتب الله لكم } أمركم بدخولها وهي الشام { ولا ترتدُّوا على أدباركم } تنهزموا خوف العدو { فتنقلبوا خاسرين } في سعيكم .
Sahih International
O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."

5:22 to top

5 22 1 -
{ قالوا يا موسى إن فيها قوما جبارين } من بقايا عاد طوالا ذي قوة { وإنا لن ندخلها حتى يخرجوا منها فإن يخرجوا منها فإنا داخلون } لها .
Sahih International
They said, "O Moses, indeed within it is a people of tyrannical strength, and indeed, we will never enter it until they leave it; but if they leave it, then we will enter."

5:23 to top

5 23 1 -
{ قال } لهم { رجلان من الذين يخافون } مخالفة أمر الله وهما يوشع وكالب من النقباء الذين بعثهم موسى في كشف أحوال الجبابرة { أنعم الله عليهما } بالعصمة فكتما ما اطَّلعا عليه من حالهم إلا عن موسى بخلاف بقية النقباء فأفشوه فجبنوا { ادخلوا عليهم الباب } باب القرية ولا تخشوهم فإنهم أجساد بلا قلوب { فإذا دخلتموه فإنكم غالبون } قالا ذلك تيقناً بنصر الله وإنجاز وعده { وعلى الله فتوكلوا إن كنتم مؤمنين } .
Sahih International
Said two men from those who feared [to disobey] upon whom Allah had bestowed favor, "Enter upon them through the gate, for when you have entered it, you will be predominant. And upon Allah rely, if you should be believers."

5:24 to top

5 24 1 -
{ قالوا يا موسى إنا لن ندخلها أبدا ماداموا فيها فاذهب أنت وربُّك فقاتلا } هم { إنا ها هنا قاعدون } عن القتال .
Sahih International
They said, "O Moses, indeed we will not enter it, ever, as long as they are within it; so go, you and your Lord, and fight. Indeed, we are remaining right here."

5:25 to top

5 25 1 -
{ قال } موسى حينئذ { رب إني لا أملك إلا نفسي و } إلا { أخي } ولا أملك غيرهما فاجبرهم على الطاعة { فافرق } فافصل { بيننا وبين القوم الفاسقين } .
Sahih International
[Moses] said, "My Lord, indeed I do not possess except myself and my brother, so part us from the defiantly disobedient people."

5:26 to top

5 26 1 -
( قال ) تعالى له ( فإنها ) أي الأرض المقدسة ( محرمة عليهم ) أن يدخلوها ( أربعين سنة يتيهون ) يتحيرون ( في الأرض ) وهي تسعة فراسخ قاله ابن عباس ( فلا تأس ) تحزن ( على القوم الفاسقين ) روي أنهم كانوا يسيرون الليل جادين فإذا أصبحوا إذا هم في الموضع الذي ابتدأوا منه ويسيرون النهار كذلك حتى انقرضوا كلهم إلا من لم يبلغ العشرين ، قيل : وكانوا ستمائة ألف ومات هارون وموسى في التيه وكان رحمة لهما وعذابا لأولئك وسأل موسى ربه عند موته أن يدنيه من الأرض المقدسة رمية بحجر فأدناه كما في الحديث ، ونبئ يوشع بعد الأربعين وأمر بقتال الجبارين فسار بمن بقي معه وقاتلهم وكان يوم الجمعة ووقفت له الشمس ساعة حتى فرغ من قتالهم ، وروى أحمد في مسنده حديث "" إن الشمس لم تحبس على بشر إلا ليوشع ليالي سار إلى بيت المقدس "" .
Sahih International
[ Allah ] said, "Then indeed, it is forbidden to them for forty years [in which] they will wander throughout the land. So do not grieve over the defiantly disobedient people."

God reminded them of his favor upon them, choosing them for the message of monotheism and yet what do they do? They tell Moses go & your god and fight. So what happened to them again per verses? So do not grieve over a people so disobedient.

I have already covered who the holy land was assigned to on various other threads. Why do you repeat the same questions if you don't accept the replies given?

best,
Reply

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theplains
01-13-2013, 02:15 AM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
The children of Israel were an ummah before our ummah. The Ummah of the believers is preferred over all mankind...

God reminded them of his favor upon them, choosing them for the message of monotheism ...


Was there an ummah of the people of Ishmael while Ishmael was living somewhere in Arabia?

According to the Quran or Hadiths (in the time referenced by sura 2:47), why did God favor the children of
Israel by choosing them for the message of monotheism instead of the children of Ishmael or Esau? What
specific time range (using the terms B.C to A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?

Thanks,
Jim











Reply

جوري
01-13-2013, 03:44 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Was there an ummah of the people of Ishmael while Ishmael was living somewhere in Arabia?

According to the Quran or Hadiths (in the time referenced by sura 2:47), why did God favor the children of
Israel by choosing them for the message of monotheism instead of the children of Ishmael or Esau? What
specific time range (using the terms B.C to A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?

Thanks,
Jim






I really don't understand what it is you are having difficulty with? There's NO INSTEAD, I have already told you it is a matter of chronology if you don't understand that, then perhaps posing it this way:
Who came first Zacharia or Mohammed?
Hopefully that's putting it in terms that are easy for you to grasp. The children of Ishmael the greatest nation to mankind came later is all there's to it!

best,
Reply

theplains
01-14-2013, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
I really don't understand what it is you are having difficulty with?
What specific time frame (using the terms B.C and/or A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

جوري
01-14-2013, 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
What specific time frame (using the terms B.C and/or A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?

Thanks,
Jim
It is refering to the time of Moses :saws: and it is very clear since it is quoted to you in sequence & context above!
Reply

Indian Bro
01-16-2013, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
What specific time frame (using the terms B.C and/or A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?

Thanks,
Jim
As-salamu alaykum,

There's no such thing as "B.C." or "A.D." according to Muslims, so please use "B.C.E." or "C.E." instead in an Islamic Forum because by saying things like "A.D." you are indirectly insulting our beliefs, thank you for understanding.

Salam 3laikum
Reply

جوري
01-16-2013, 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Indian Bro
you are indirectly insulting our beliefs
In what way bro is using a different calendar insulting? I haven't see anything in Quran or Sunnah that state such a thing?
He simply has no understanding of the questions he asks including the use of past tense in Arabic which renders him completely ignorant.
Jesus :saws: and other prophets existed before H. and nothing forbids referring to the time period they existed using a different calendar!


and Allah :swt: knows best,

:w:
Reply

Indian Bro
01-16-2013, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
In what way bro is using a different calendar insulting? I haven't see anything in Quran or Sunnah that state such a thing?
He simply has no understanding of the questions he asks including the use of past tense in Arabic which renders him completely ignorant.
Jesus :saws: and other prophets existed before H. and nothing forbids referring to the time period they existed using a different calendar!


and Allah :swt: knows best,

:w:
As-salamu alaykum,

I apologize for any misunderstandings. But I understand that "A.D." means "After death of Isa (PBUH)" which is blasphemous according to Islam because Isa (PBUH) did not die. So I feel it is preferable to use "C.E." or "B.C.E." which are abbreviations of "Christian Era" and "Before Christian Era" respectively. By using the latter we are not indirectly speaking of our beloved Prophet Isa (PBUH) dying.

I apologize if I had come across declearing this as a fatwa or some ruling, this is just my opinion and personal view. If you don't agree with me I hope you can kindly increase my understanding.

And Allah knows best.

Salam 3laikum
Reply

جوري
01-16-2013, 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Indian Bro
I apologize if I had come across declearing this as a fatwa or some ruling,
No need to apologize but A.D means Anno Domini which is counting the years after his era- pls don't apologize. it is a common misunderstanding...

:w:
Reply

Indian Bro
01-16-2013, 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ

No need to apologize but A.D means Anno Domini which is counting the years after his era- pls don't apologize. it is a common misunderstanding...

:w:
As-salamu alaykum

I thank you for enlightening me about this new abbreviation "Anno Domini", as I have never heard of this before and I'm happy to know about it now. However when I searched Wikipedia for this term it showed me:

The term Anno Domini is Medieval Latin, translated as In the year of the Lord, and as in the year of our Lord. It is sometimes specified more fully as Anno Domini Nostri Iesu (Jesu) Christi ("In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ").

So from my understanding, isn't "Anno Domini" still going against our Islamic beliefs?
Salam 3laikum
Reply

جوري
01-16-2013, 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Indian Bro
still going against our Islamic beliefs?
in what way? a calendar is a calendar.. we're not subscribing to their beliefs simply by looking at this specific way of keeping time!

:w:
Reply

Indian Bro
01-16-2013, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by شَادِنُ
in what way? a calendar is a calendar.. we're not subscribing to their beliefs simply by looking at this specific way of keeping time!

:w:
As-salamu alaykum

I apologize if I didn't convey what I meant to say clearly enough. I did not mean in anyway that following the Christian calender would be wrong, I just feel that saying things like "A.D." and so on are against our beliefs so i feel it would be preferable to use terms like "B.E.C." or "C.E.". The two definitions of A.D. that you and I mentioned, according to me, are anti-Islamic, whereas "B.E.C." and "C.E." would not be anti-Islamic as they just mean "Before Christian Era" and "Christian Era" respectively. I hope this has cleared any misunderstandings from my part.

Salam 3laikum.
Reply

theplains
01-17-2013, 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by Indian Bro
As-salamu alaykum,

There's no such thing as "B.C." or "A.D." according to Muslims, so please use "B.C.E." or "C.E." instead in an Islamic Forum because by saying things like "A.D." you are indirectly insulting our beliefs, thank you for understanding.

Salam 3laikum
Thank you for the clarification. I understand your point.

I hope you are not insulted by the use of A.D. when you use any kind of electronic device like an
Apple/Android/BlackBerry cell phone or any kind of computer. Their timing is all based on the birth of
Jesus Christ. A Muslim in North America can't even transact any business with American or Canadian
banks without acknowledging this time reference - I hope they are not insulted.

Sorry to divert from our topic.

What specific time frame (using the terms B.C.E or C.E.) is sura 2:47 referring to? A previous poster
mentioned it was the time of Moses, but she did not give a specific time range or the key events
which identified this time of Moses.

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

جوري
01-17-2013, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
A previous poster
mentioned it was the time of Moses, but she did not give a specific time range or the key events
which identified this time of Moses.
Nor are we obligated to give you a specific time. Moses came before Jesus, came before John, came before Mohammed :saws: and that's all there's to it. If you wish to niggle over trifles then I pity you indeed. Perhaps it is one of the many reasons folks are leaving christianity in drones. They make up unnecessary requirements then realize later how tight the noose is around their neck. When the world advances and they realize the world isn't 6000 yrs as they allege along with all the other lies they concoct of God, his sons and daughters and mothers!

I am reminded of these verses from the noble Quran:

18:22--------------------- So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone."
Reply

Indian Bro
01-17-2013, 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Thank you for the clarification. I understand your point.

I hope you are not insulted by the use of A.D. when you use any kind of electronic device like an
Apple/Android/BlackBerry cell phone or any kind of computer. Their timing is all based on the birth of
Jesus Christ. A Muslim in North America can't even transact any business with American or Canadian
banks without acknowledging this time reference - I hope they are not insulted.

Sorry to divert from our topic.

What specific time frame (using the terms B.C.E or C.E.) is sura 2:47 referring to? A previous poster
mentioned it was the time of Moses, but she did not give a specific time range or the key events
which identified this time of Moses.

Thanks,
Jim
As-salamu alaykum,

Hi Jim
I'm sorry for coming off as saying that following the Christian calender is offensive, I never intended or meant to say that. I am not offended by the calender except only if someone uses the "A.D." or "B.C."terms or anything that goes against Islamic teachings. All I wanted to convey was using the terms "A.D." etc were offensive as Isa (PBUH) did not die according to us Muslims. So it would be preferable to use "C.E." or "B.C.E." instead, which still refers to the same calender and dates except it doesn't refer to the death of our Prophet. Thanks for understanding.

Salam 3laikum
Reply

theplains
01-17-2013, 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Indian Bro
As-salamu alaykum,

Hi Jim
I'm sorry for coming off as saying that following the Christian calender is offensive, I never intended or meant to say that. I am not offended by the calender except only if someone uses the "A.D." or "B.C."terms or anything that goes against Islamic teachings. All I wanted to convey was using the terms "A.D." etc were offensive as Isa (PBUH) did not die according to us Muslims. So it would be preferable to use "C.E." or "B.C.E." instead, which still refers to the same calender and dates except it doesn't refer to the death of our Prophet. Thanks for understanding.

Salam 3laikum
Hello. No need to apologize. Thanks for explaining. I'll use C.E. or B.C.E in the future.

Thanks,
Jim
Reply

Ahmad H
01-23-2013, 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Sura 2:47 and 2:122 say, "O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I
have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds"
(quran.com).

Another version has it worded a little differently. "O Children of Israel!
Remember My favour wherewith I favoured you and how I preferred
you to (all) creatures" (quranexplorer.com).

According to the Quran/Hadiths, why were the children of Israel (Jacob)
preferred over the children of Ishmael (Isaac's brother), or even Esau (Jacob's
brother)?

Thanks,
Jim
The answer is simple. The words, "I exalted you above all the peoples" does not refer to Israelites being exalted above everyone else for all times to come in the future. It only meant they were exalted above everyone else in their own respective time. The proof for this is in verse 3:33 "Allah did choose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran above all peoples." Thus, the meaning of the Israelites being preferred over everyone else only refers to their own age.

The family of Jacob was not given a line of Prophethood that would end in the Khatam an-Nabiyeen, where the Seal of Prophethood would be given and the final law would be established. Evidently, the Jews only had Prophets sent to their own nation, and not to others. While us Muslims, the line of Ishmael (as), have a line which ended in the highest pinnacle of Prophethood, which can never be reached by any other Prophet of Allah. Therefore, Allah had reserved this high status for the line of Ishmael (as).

Furthermore, the line of Jacob (as) was preferred over other people for their time, because Allah had ordained prophethood to be with them for their own nation. The Arabs who lived in the area the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) was raised never had a Prophet come to them before, so they were in need of a Prophet. This is why Ishmael (as) had a line which would have Prophethood come to them later on. In fact, many Jews moved to Arabia knowing a Prophet would be raised there in the future. The Qur'an mentions this often, but the Jews did not like the fact that this final Prophet was an Arab and not a Jew. Hence, they opposed him bitterly for that and they hid their prophecies and turned them into something else for people to wait for rather than accept the Seal of the Prophets (saw).

Therefore, the children of Jacob (as) were never preferred over the children of Ishmael (as). Allah preferred the latter over the former because the gift of Prophethood was taken away from the Jews and given over to the Arabs - the descendants of Ishmael (as). The Jews lost their Prophethood with Jesus (as). This is why no Prophet came in between Jesus (as) and the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw), because the Jews lost their prestige when they tried to crucify Jesus (as), a noble, innocent and pious Prophet of Allah who did not wrong to anybody.

If one does not look at the full historical situation and ignores what happened taking only one time period into consideration, then the question becomes confused. However, if you consider that the Jews had no more Prophets for the last 2000 years, while we Muslims had one 1400 years ago, then it puts things into perspective. Obviously, the line of Jacob (as) is not the most favored right now. however, the same religion continues, and all of those past Prophets, had they been alive at the time of the Holy Prophet (saw), would have given allegiance to him because they all took a covenant saying that they would follow the Prophet who came after them - especially the Seal of the Prophets (saw), for he is the pinnacle of the Prophets.

Also, the Holy Land in Jerusalem may have been given over to the Jews, but the Holy Land of the Ka'ba is given over to the Muslims. The Ka'ba was built by Adam (as) first, then later by Abraham (as) with his son. Thus, the custodians of the Ka'ba are given the Holy Land that was holy since the beginning of time. This is much more significant than Jerusalem. Just look at all the wealth flowing from the land of Arabia. And how worthy of the very land that the holy steps of the Seal of the Prophets (saw) touched, and was thus blessed with such wealth that it has made deserts turn into gardens.

All in all, the Israelite line was the most exalted people of their own time, not forever. Their message was not meant to be exalted over all times since Allah did not state that the Bible would be the law for all mankind, the Qur'an is. The Qur'an remains the law until the Day of Judgement, thus it will remain supreme forever, and that makes it's followers and custodians the most exalted peoples on earth because they hold and practice the most exalted law on earth. This law abrogated all past laws, so no previous faith can claim superiority to the faith of Islam, pristine, pure and unchanged. The Bible changed, but the Qur'an remains the same. How can the most exalted nation on earth possibly be the best of all peoples when their book has changed? Only the faith with an unchanged Book till the end of time can claim superiority, and that faith is Islam.

I hope this clarifies the matter for you. Should you have anymore concerns after the proofs I have set out for you, then feel free to refer to other verses of the Holy Qur'an and anyone else who has read the Qur'an can explain it to you. I may not have given explicit references here, but all of my information can from various verses of the Holy Qur'an. It is late for me now, but next time Inshallah I will try my best to quote the actual verses I am referring to in my explanations.
Reply

theplains
01-23-2013, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by Ahmad H
The answer is simple. The words, "I exalted you above all the peoples" does not refer to Israelites being exalted above everyone else for all times to come in the future. It only meant they were exalted above everyone else in their own respective time. The proof for this is in verse 3:33 "Allah did choose Adam and Noah and the family of Abraham and the family of 'Imran above all peoples." Thus, the meaning of the Israelites being preferred over everyone else only refers to their own age.
Thank you.

Which age (in terms of B.C.E and C.E) are you referring to?

Jim
Reply

Ahmad H
01-23-2013, 09:09 PM
I cannot put an exact number of the dates for the age. You said yourself in your question that you were wondering why the line of Israel (Jacob (as)) was favored. This favor from Allah ended by Jesus (as), prophethood ceased for some time, and then it was renewed and came again in the Holy Prophet (saw). If you can find out the ages when Israel (as) came and when Jesus (as)'s time ended, then that would be the time frame you are looking for.

I know that the Holy Prophet (saw) once said that 600 years before him Jesus (as) came into the world. This Hadith was in "Book of the Prophets" in Sahih Bukhari - one of the most interesting books in his Sahih. Sorry I couldn't give you the dates, but I would rather not put an exact time on the line of prophethood for the Israelites Prophets and say something which is untrue. I don't have the best historical knowledge on the timelines of the Prophets of Allah. Perhaps you might be more knowledgeable than I in this area. I don't know.

Peace be on those who seek the truth.
Reply

Insaanah
01-31-2013, 11:46 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
What specific time range (using the terms B.C to A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?
Originally Posted by theplains
What specific time frame (using the terms B.C and/or A.D.) is sura 2:47 referring to?
Originally Posted by theplains
What specific time frame (using the terms B.C.E or C.E.) is sura 2:47 referring to?
Originally Posted by theplains
Which age (in terms of B.C.E and C.E) are you referring to?
Originally Posted by theplains
I posted the question to this Islamic forum because I thought the Quran could share some insights on why sura 2:47 says what it says, and what specific time frame it has in mind.
Originally Posted by theplains
No one on the forum has been able to explain the why or the when of this (as to when, I'm asking for BCE to CE ... considering
that the Children of Israel are contemporary to the Children of Ishmael).
Greetings Jim.

You're approaching the Qur'an like a history textbook, or at the very least like the Bible, which, as I've already mentioned to you in another thread, is not the right approach to take with the Qur'an:

Originally Posted by Insaanah
I think it would be prudent for you to know that the Bible and the Qur'an differ in their approach to the story of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them both). They differ in the amount and type of information they provide, how it is presented, and the objectives of the stories. The Biblical account is more like a historical narrative, a story, with times, locations, and descriptions of places, things, and persons.
Originally Posted by Insaanah
What is mentioned in the Qur'an is mentioned for the lessons to be drawn from it, rather than for the story itself, and as such there are less physical details.
Originally Posted by Insaanah
Allah tells us only what He deems necessary for us to know to grasp the story, and learn the lesson contained within it, not intricate little details that we might otherwise get sidetracked on. In some places in the Qur'an, even individuals are mentioned without names. If the individual is righteous, that is mentioned. If he did a good deed, that is mentioned as being good. Enough detail is given for the message to be understood, without getting bogged down intricate details. We must remember that the Qur'an is above all, a book of guidance. In the Qur'an, it isn't about long detailed historical narratives, but what is mentioned is mentioned for the lessons and morals contained within it. Had there been any benefit to us by knowing exactly where this garden/paradise was, Allah would have mentioned it for us, as He did with some other things in the Qur'an.
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1558965

So you will not find anywhere such dates, nor will anyone give them to you. To get bogged down in dates, is to miss the point.

Muslims now possess an original and unchanged scripture from God - we must make sure that we take on board the warnings, learn the lessons, and make sure that we do not repeat the same sins and mistakes that the Children of Israel did, such as pitching one prophet against the other, rejecting some but accepting others, blaspheming some etc, as just one example. May peace be upon all the prophets, all the ones we know of and that have been mentioned by name, those that are mentioned without name, and those whose stories we haven't been told and that we are unaware of.

I believe others have answered your remaining questions adequately.

Peace.
Reply

tearose
02-01-2013, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by theplains
Another version has it worded a little differently.
Hello,
Just wanted to point out that versions is not the right word here - they are just different translations of the original Arabic text. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that. It may be useful if you have a look at a good tafseer (commentary) as you are reading, like ibn Katheer for example, you can read them free online. Let us know if you have any more queries, I am going to look into some of the questions you mentioned on the other thread insha Allah, but I think the other members have already answered your questions here
Reply

Insaanah
02-02-2013, 08:46 PM
Assalaamu alaikum, and peace and greetings to all.

Please note that the discussion on why "God" came down to earth/appeared to the Jews, has been moved to a new thread in the Comparative Religion section, here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...ally-jews.html

If wanting to discuss that topic, please do so there, so that this thread remains for the original topic.

Thank you.
Reply

Al-Mufarridun
02-03-2013, 01:32 PM
:sl:


2 125 1 -
And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them.
[ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people."
[Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?"
[ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." [Quran: 2:124]



But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed. [Quran 2:87]



And [Noah] said, "Embark therein; in the name of Allah is its course and its anchorage. Indeed, my Lord is Forgiving and Merciful." [Quran 11:42]

And it sailed with them through waves like mountains, and Noah called to his son who was apart [from them], "O my son, come aboard with us and be not with the disbelievers." [Quran 11:42]

[But] he said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water." [Noah] said, "There is no protector today from the decree of Allah , except for whom He gives mercy." And the waves came between them, and he was among the drowned. [Quran 11:43]

And Noah called to his Lord and said, "My Lord, indeed my son is of my family; and indeed, Your promise is true; and You are the most just of judges!" [Quran 11:45]
He said, "O Noah, indeed he is not of your family; indeed, he is [one whose] work was other than righteous, so ask Me not for that about which you have no knowledge. Indeed, I advise you, lest you be among the ignorant." [Quran 11:46]

________________________________________


Allah swt doesn't prefer a people over another simply because of their race or lineage, Rather the lineage that Allah takes into account is the lineage of Righteousness. Thus we believers, as our Prophet(pbuh) taught us, are more loving and proud of the righteous children of Jacob(as), for they are our brothers in faith. May Allah swt have mercy on them all. Ameen.


Allah swt knows best.


Reply

Abu Loren
02-22-2013, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
According to the Quran/Hadiths, why were the children of Israel (Jacob)
preferred over the children of Ishmael (Isaac's brother), or even Esau (Jacob's
brother)?
As'alaamu Alaikkum

With regard to Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam) it says in your Bible that he will be bessed and he his descendants will have a great kingdom. So Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala never ignored them nor abandoned them. His mother Hagar and Prophet Ishemael (Alayhi Salaam) were guided to the valley in Mecca so that his descendants will look after the Ka'aba. Esau on the hand in not even mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, we don't even know if Prophet Yacoub (Alayhi Salaam) had a brother. The Bible is not very kind to Esau and there is even a passage where God tells him that he is condemned even before he was born. I suspect that Esau was an invention like so many thing in the Bible
Reply

theplains
02-23-2013, 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by Abu Loren
As'alaamu Alaikkum

With regard to Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam) it says in your Bible that he will be bessed and he his descendants will have a great kingdom. So Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala never ignored them nor abandoned them. His mother Hagar and Prophet Ishemael (Alayhi Salaam) were guided to the valley in Mecca so that his descendants will look after the Ka'aba. Esau on the hand in not even mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, we don't even know if Prophet Yacoub (Alayhi Salaam) had a brother. The Bible is not very kind to Esau and there is even a passage where God tells him that he is condemned even before he was born. I suspect that Esau was an invention like so many thing in the Bible
Thank you for your reply but it really didn't answer my question.

Peace.
Jim
Reply

Abu Loren
02-23-2013, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by theplains
Thank you for your reply but it really didn't answer my question.
How convenient for you.
Reply

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