what the rabid French dogs did to Algeria & now Mali's turn from your money

[جوري]

شاهد الصورة..نشطاء لبوتفليقة هؤلاء من فتحت لهم الأجواء لضرب مالي

Thursday 17 January 2013

مفكرة الاسلام: نشر نشطاء جزائريون وعرب على شبكات التواصل الاجتماعي، صورة قديمة تعود إلى عصر الاحتلال الفرنسي للجزائر، تكشف الوجه الحقيقي لفرنسا التي فتحت لها الجزائر أجوئها لضرب مسلمي مالي.
فقد أثار قرار الحكومة الجزائرية بالسماح للقوات الفرنسية باستخدام المجال الجوي الجزائري في ضرب المسلمين في شمال مالي، غضب الكثير من النشطاء وعامة المواطنين الجزائريين والعرب والمسلمين على حد سواء، مؤكدين أن هذا يمثل عدوانا على المسلمين لا يجوز بحال المشاركة فيه.
ونشر النشطاء الصورة التي يبدو عليها بوضوح أنها من زمن مضى، وتعود إلى زمن الاحتلال الفرنسي للجزائر قبل عقود، ويظهر فيها جنديان فرنسيان يحملان رأسي شابين جزائريين بشكل مهين وينافي أبسط قواعد الإنسانية.
وبالنظر للصورة يظهر أحد الجنديين وهو يحمل رأسا مقطوعة بين يديه، أما الجندي الآخر، فهو أكثر بشاعة وإهانة، حيث يحمل رأس الشاب الجزائري عبر طرفي "حبل" مربوط بأذن ذلك الشاب.
وأكد النشطاء أن هذه الصورة تكشف زيف الادعاءات الفرنسية وحديثها عن حقوق الإنسان، لأنها من أكثر دول العالم انتهاكا لحقوق الإنسان، ومن أكثرهم اعتداء على الآخرين، وتاريخها في الجزائر خير شاهد، فكيف يسمح لها بعد ذلك باستخدام الجزائر لضرب مسلمي مالي.

http://www.islammemo.cc/akhbar/arab/...17/162741.html

a picture should be worth a thousand words. Wake up Muslims!!!!!!!!!!

[جوري]

This speaker will probably end up dead the same way they murdered David Kelly

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

Could we get first post by English? Picture by heads in the hands doesn´t tell what it is meaning at all!

[جوري]

pictures do speak a thousand words don't they? Those are French rabid dogs occupiers not unlike the rest of the rabid dogs be they Americans or Zionists, holding the heads of Algerians, they used to hunt them for sport and that's pretty much what they do everywhere. Algerians posted these pictures to show solidarity with the people of Mali and to showcase that the wh0re France has no principles and neither are the rabid dogs that defend it.
So next time you see a heated fully charged comment from the shill dependent hopefully you'll be able to sort the truth from the crap!

:w:

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[May Ayob]

pictures do speak a thousand words don't they? Those are French rabid dogs occupiers not unlike the rest of the rabid dogs be they Americans or Zionists, holding the heads of Algerians, they used to hunt them for sport and that's pretty much what they do everywhere. Algerians posted these pictures to show solidarity with the people of Mali and to showcase that the wh0re France has no principles and neither are the rabid dogs that defend it.

That is just plainly atrocious; did they really hunt people for sport? those people really don't have any principles. May Allah protect people from the likes of such.

[Jedi_Mindset]

That is just plainly atrocious; did they really hunt people for sport? those people really don't have any principles. May Allah protect people from the likes of such.

They still do it today. I believe 2 million algerians got killed by the french colonizers. this is how brutal these thugs are. I am just talking about the algerians, i do not even count the muslims being killed throughout north-africa and the middle east. ww1 most of the innocents killed were muslims, ww2 also. But of these world wars were designed to create one tiny state in the middle east called israel.

[جوري]

Yes by Allah that's what they did. When Napoleon came to Egypt he had so much resistance and three counter revolutions especially in Cairo from Al-Azhar, every day he'd kill ten Azharis in a similar fashion to what you see above and parade their heads -- you wanna know what the greatest calamity is? People in Egypt the so-called liberals thinking Napoleon did a good thing.
Is our outrage and anger not justified when the likes of the shill from yesterday when they speak of barbarity and lack of civility please know who the true culprit is and I wish the rest of us would collectively quit apologizing for our Islamicness!

:w:

[جوري]

They still do it today

Algeria was known as the land of a thousand martyrs it is the home place of Umar Al'Mokhtaar and you guys can read about him. The colonialists weren't rested and they never will like the devil until they erase every last ounce of Islam by whatever means:

2:217-------------------Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.

[May Ayob]

Is our outrage and anger not justified when the likes of the shill from yesterday when they speak of barbarity and lack of civility please know who the true culprit is and I wish the rest of us would collectively quit apologizing for our Islamicness

That's a fair point, May Allah help this Ummah from every oppressive transgresser.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

war between France and Algeria concluded at 1962. I still ask you write only English or write proper translation when you post to English sections. Is that too much to you to ask?

The picture doesn´t everytimes tell more than thousand words but it may leave thousand questions.

[جوري]

war between France and Algeria concluded at 1962

Did it? is that honestly what you believe?

You can use google translate, like so

Posted Algerian and Arab activists on social networking, old photograph dating back to the era of the French occupation of Algeria, reveal the true face of France, which opened her Algeria Ojoiha hit financial Muslims.
Has raised the Algerian government's decision to allow French forces to use Algerian airspace to strike at Muslims in northern Mali, angered many activists and ordinary citizens Algerians, Arabs and Muslims alike, stressing that this is an attack on Muslims is not permissible under any circumstances participate.
And dissemination of activists is that clearly it seems from the time before, and return to the time of the French occupation of Algeria decades ago, and shows where two French soldiers carrying my two young Algerians humiliating and contrary to the most basic rules of humanity.
Given the picture shows one of the two soldiers carrying a severed head in his hands, while the other soldier, he is even more terrible insult, where his head young Algerian across both sides of the "rope" tied by ear so young.
The activists that this image reveal the falsehood of allegations French and talking about human rights, because they are the world's most violation of human rights, and most attacks on others, and its history in Algeria best witness, how allows it after using Algeria to hit the Muslim Mali.

I am not hiding anything from the members. One usually expects Muslims to have minimum fund of Arabic

:w:

[Ali_008]

:sl:

I came to know about a Hadeeth yesterday as follows:

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away.
Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes.
Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes.
Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida [Guided Caliphs] according to the ways of the Prophethood," then he kept silent.

Musnad Ahmad (17680)

I think this is that era which is in bold.

Allah is the protector of every Muslim, and inshaAllah we must keep our faith in him for the rise of the masses against the oppressors. We are witnessing an inch by inch growth on a daily basis, and perhaps we will see these tyrant put to the guillotine in this life itself inshaAllah.

[جوري]

yup.. we're definitely in the period of 'Thoumma' from the hadith in its Arabic form.. :Allah::swt: only knows how long this will last but I am also reminded of another verse from Suret Ar'ra3d which clearly states that :Allah::swt: will not change the condition of a people until they change themselves..

[sister herb]

You can use google translate, like so I am not hiding anything from the members. One usually expects Muslims to have minimum fund of Arabic

:w:

Salam alaykum

I think that person who posts something to English forum should respects other members, whose may not know Arabic language at all. This forum would be just as a big mess if everyone writes here by they own language.

Remember, all members here are not muslims neither all muslims don´t read Arabic (even if they use it when they pray).

By English only at the next time, if I may ask.

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Salam alaykum

I think that person who posts something to English forum should respects other members, whose may not know Arabic language at all. This forum would be just as a big mess if everyone writes here by they own language.

Remember, all members here are not muslims neither all muslims don´t read Arabic (even if they use it when they pray).

By English only at the next time, if I may ask.

A bit harsh, I partially agree with you but personally I don't mind, it is part of our culture and heritage, it spurs me on to learn Arabic properly.

Translation would be nice if asked for.

On the topic of the post, yes we all know what the French are like. In fact compared to other colonisers, they are in some respects much worse.

[Indian Bro]

As-salamu alaykum,

I don't mean to go off-topic but isn't this an international forum? If so then let's try to keep our posts in English so everyone can understand. There's nothing wrong with posting articles of different languages as long as you post a translation along with it. These are basic etiquette's for international forums, I hope this clears any misunderstandings. And let's face it, Google translate doesn't do much justice to translations most of the time especially when it comes to Arabic. No offence intended.

Salam 3laikum

[جوري]

I think that person who posts something to English forum should respects other members

How's posting something in Arabic disrespectful? You always have an option not to read a particular post if it irks you so much, and if it spurs your interest you can always use a google translator as I have demonstrated. It is really a non-Issue and I remember you chasing me in the Arabic section to say the same thing which leads me to conclude that it is perhaps the subject matter and offending kaffir sensibilities that is really bothering you and not the fact that the post is in Arabic!

Umar Ibn Ilkhtaab :ra: did say learn Arabic for it will teach you wisdom indeed I can see how it would benefit others who are in pursuit of knowledge and really want to understand the situation in that part of the world. Or are you dreaming that Kaffir corporate media is going to give you news from the points of view of Muslims?

as I have stated above and before, please don't meander the threads on your personal dislikes, you may not like a topic in Arabic and I see a few others who feel the same, by all means skip it no offense taken.


best,

[جوري]

btw. and to get this thread back on topic. I'd rather the people know what foreign forces did to their parents or grandparents and what they're going to be doing now than worry as to whether or not Arabic is offensive if indeed it is offensive.

:w:

[Indian Bro]

As-salamu alaykum,

I'm sure all Muslims in this world, including me, would love to learn Arabic, there's no doubt about that, however, I feel it would be more appropriate to post a translation along with the original post as this would be more convenient for the readers, considering this is an international forum. And I feel it should be the responsibility of the person posting in a different language to Google translate it to English him/herself and make sure the translation is as precise as it can be by proof-reading it before posting it. This is just my opinion, because I know for a fact that Google translate isn't the most reliable source for Arabic-English translations. I hope you understand my opinion and jazakAllah khairan for this thread as I had no clue about how treacherous the French were towards the Algerians. I also hope you and other Arab posters can share even more insights from the Arabic perspectives on such affairs as this will deepen the understanding of those that are ignorant (Such as me and other non-Arab users) about the Arab world point of view on global affairs.

Salam 3laikum

[Abdul Fattah]

Aselam aleykum

Some points I'd like to make.

*) If non-muslims jump conclusions about muslims based on the actions of a few rotten apples, then every muslim screams bloody murder and outrage. Apparently, the other way around isn't that bad?
*) Certainly the French have a hidden agenda for intervening in Mali, but despite that agenda, they're intervening against an extremistsgroup who uses violence to terrorise a society. So all things considered, I consider the intervention a good thing.
*) That they claim to want shariah, and claim this is their reason for being violent doesn't make their actions any better, it makes them worse.

Just my two cents....

[Jedi_Mindset]

Certainly the French have a hidden agenda for intervening in Mali, but despite that agenda, they're intervening against an extremistsgroup who uses violence to terrorise a society. So all things considered, I consider the intervention a good thing.

Are you kidding me? Muslim allying with kufar french forces to kill other muslims? I dont want to spread takfir, since its not my job to do, i'm not from the ulema or a pious scholar. But man, you need to watch out where you are getting headed, by supporting western interventions? Stop watching media. I urge you to study history, we muslims will be in war with the romans till the hour, history has proven this and today it has proven, and in the future it will still be going on.

Mali forces accused of myriad abuses in Western-backed fight


''The International Federation for Human Rights (FIDH) says Mali's army has been killing people it accuses of being "infiltrators" or rebel "accomplices" – but also those who are seen carrying weapons, or who are simply unable to produce identification. Summary executions have been documented in at least three towns, while ethnic Tuaregs in the capital Bamako have had their houses raided by Malian troops, the group says.
"In Sévaré, at least 11 individuals were executed in the military camp, near the bus station and near the hospital. Reliable information report close to 20 other executions in the same area where bodies are said to have been buried very hastily, in particular in the wells," the FIDH said in a statement.
"Other allegations of summary executions continue to come from all areas of the west and center of the country," it continued.''

Ready for talks?

Mali’s Ansar Dine rebel organization has fragmented and formed a new movement, claiming it wants to reach a solution to the crisis through diplomacy.
Former Ansar Dine head Alghabass Ag Intalla told Malian radio RFI that the breakaway organization was looking for a“negotiated solution” to the conflict. He said the offshoot group would be called the Islamic Movement.
Additionally, the group has stated that it "rejected all forms of extremism and terrorism.”

Ansar dine and this new group both reject extremism(Mainly secterianism and wrong intepetrations of qu'ran and shariah)


​Ansar dine offered peace talks but this facist puppet government of mali straight refused. So who is the aggressor?

But if you support this intervention go ahead, look who is going home in their coffins, certainly not the ''islamists'' in the north, but the foreign troops and frenchies. Maybe this is also what they want full destabilzation in the region, so oil companies like BP can pump oil in algeria and the rest of the sahel.

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum

I hope we could discuss in English forum by English, not by Arabic or by French. If someone likes to use other languages, he/she can do it in forum by these languages or in other sections of forum.

Hopely that is not too much to ask in English forum.

[Abdul Fattah]

Jedi Mindset,
Aselam aleykum

I don't think I'm heading anywhere, and I don't think my opinions are in any way dangerous. I don't "pick side" based on who's a muslim or not. I was glad to hear France decided to intervene because in the long term they might actually have a chance of eventually finding stability and safety. Sure i agree that they'll have to pay a heavy price for it, and France will surely loot allot of their natural wealth. But if I was living over there and I had to choose between getting financially raped by France, Or getting terrorised by some rebels who claim to be enforcing Shariah, my choice would quickly be made. And by that I'm not trying to glorify what France is doing. there isn't a second of doubt in my mind as to what their motives are. My point is just that they are clearly the "lesser evil" in this case.

[جوري]

Are you kidding me?

May :Allah: :swt: help guide the Muslims who have no concept whatsoever of Walaa and Baraa- worse yet can't seem to distinguish the difference between occupation and self-defense!
Is there more to discuss beyond this?

in English forum.

This is an Islamic forum not an English forum. Why is this still an issue? As stated if the topic is difficult for you, then simply skip it.

[Abdul Fattah]

Oh so killing people because they have commited a small sin (in your interpretation of fiqh) is self defence? If you don't wish to discuss such a naive position that is of coourse youre choice, but if you think you can bully other people into not voicing thir opinions, then you got another thing comming.

Oh, and on a side note.
Yes this is an Islamic forum in the sense that Islam is the main topic. But it is also an English forum in the sense that English is the main spoken language. there in fatc even some subforums, designated for different languages. Last I checked you did not make the rules here, so please stop pretending you did.

[Indian Bro]

Oh so killing people because they have commited a small sin (in your interpretation of fiqh) is self defence? If you don't wish to discuss such a naive position that is of coourse youre choice, but if you think you can bully other people into not voicing thir opinions, then you got another thing comming.

As-salamu alaykum,

Brother, I don't mean to offend your wisdom, but correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't these "Muslims" in Mali worshiping graves? If this is true, then how could you call this a "small sin" when in fact this is "shirk", the biggest sin imaginable in the face of Islam. Or am I misinformed, please correct me if so.

Salam 3laikum

[جوري]

One deals with the topic of having her brother's heads chopped off and paraded around by demanding the topic be in English and the other by deflecting all together to make Muslims who are under attack by the same colonialists somehow the bad guy and not only that but is actually happy foreign forces are intervening in a sovereign nation and given a carte blanche to do so.. Sob7an Allah will wonders ever cease? .. how exactly in their dictionary does this make sense? I have no clue, but this takes it to a level far beneath nativity!

[Ali_008]

Let's pray together that we stop fighting among ourselves because Allah knows we have enough rivals out of our deen to deal with.

Secondly, pray for the people of Mali that they don't end up like fellow Muslims of Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Allah guides them to the truth, and protects them from the hideous sin of grave worship and all kinds of shirk.

[Indian Bro]

As-salamu alaykum,

We should pray for our brothers and sisters suffering in Mali. I don't think anyone can approve of their brothers and sisters dying in any circumstance, clearly people have been misinformed and the media is doing a good job if the case is so. I created a thread about the Indian Media exposing it's Anti-Islamic propaganda, yet the moderators have not approved of it. I wonder what's the hold up?

Salam 3laikum

[tearose]

My point is just that they are clearly the "lesser evil" in this case.

Surely it should be the other way around? If those in Mali want to establish an Islamic state, but are making a few mistakes in doing so, at least later on when they are more established someone more knowledgeable could correct them. But if France goes in and tries to set up a Western-style system, it will be much more difficult to have sharia at all.

[sister herb]

This is an Islamic forum not an English forum. Why is this still an issue? As stated if the topic is difficult for you, then simply skip it.

Salam alaykum

This is Islamic forum yes where members use English as discussing language. Not an Arabic. Some of members of this forums aren´t muslims neither we can´t expect that all muslim members know Arabic language. Here is also Arabic section to only Arabic discussions.

What if we use here only English and member who copy&past news from Arabic websites also translate it to English.

[Abdul Fattah]

Aselam aleykum Indian Brother

As-salamu alaykum,
Brother, I don't mean to offend your wisdom, but correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't these "Muslims" in Mali worshiping graves? If this is true, then how could you call this a "small sin" when in fact this is "shirk", the biggest sin imaginable in the face of Islam. Or am I misinformed, please correct me if so.
Salam 3laikum

Shirk is indeed a big sin, I wasn't refering to that. there's allot of other laws that these rebels are trying to enforce. and even for shirk you don't kill people. That is between them and Allah. There is a dead-sentence for some sins in Shariah, yes, but it has due proces. A trial with a judge, and a whole list of requirements that need to be met for a sentence. Not a bunch of little boys who think they will become men by killing people for every little sin they can spot. In fact most things are not things which are supposed to be enforced by law, but are a personal choice.


SurelyAselam aleykum tearose

it should be the other way around? If those in Mali want to establish an Islamic state, but are making a few mistakes in doing so, at least later on when they are more established someone more knowledgeable could correct them. But if France goes in and tries to set up a Western-style system, it will be much more difficult to have sharia at all.

I don't know about you, but Personally I would prefer living in a secular country where I'm safe as opposed to living in a so called "muslim" country where I can get prosecuted because I might have a diffrent view on Islam, and interpret rules differently.


شَادِنُ

One deals with the topic of having her brother's heads chopped off and paraded around by demanding the topic be in English and the other by deflecting all together to make Muslims who are under attack by the same colonialists somehow the bad guy and not only that but is actually happy foreign forces are intervening in a sovereign nation and given a carte blanche to do so.. Sob7an Allah will wonders ever cease? .. how exactly in their dictionary does this make sense? I have no clue, but this takes it to a level far beneath nativity!

Yes, those extremist rebels are defenitly the bad guy. And you say you have no clue about how that makes sense? Well it seems to me that you have two options then:
1. You can continue to try and ridicule my point of view (which you admittedly don't understand), and be self-righteousness about it.
2. You can attempt to have a constructive adult debate about it, and you might actually learn something.
The choice is off course entirely up to you. But as I said, I will not be bullied into silence by that attitude of yours. I mean serisouly, is that any way to respond? Somebody says something you don't understand and so you try to ridicule that person and make a whole charade about it? And then I'm the one who's taking down the level of this thread?

[جوري]

You can continue to try and ridicule my point of view

Not only ridicule but will point out that what you're doing here puts you outside the fold of Islam:



The Muslims' singling out of the hypocrites and their renunciation of them are both supported by the Prophet's own example. Ibn al-Qayyim observes that: "the Prophet said that we should take them at face value, leave Allah to deal with what they hide, but confront them with knowledge and truth.
Allah told him to oppose them and to be stern with them, but to try to appeal to their better judgement. He was forbidden from praying at their funerals and from visiting their graves. Allah has said that whatever he did He would not forgive them"341.


We have already seen how the most prominent features of their behaviour are their fondness for the disbelievers, their distaste for Islam and their abandonment of the Muslims. In fact, Allah made this clear in the revelation warning the Muslims to be careful and to keep away from them. In Surah At-Tawbah we were warned to oppose them and to meet them sternly. Sternness towards them would
itself be a kind of Jihad: Allah says:
339 Al-Ma'idah: 59-60.
340 Al-Ma'idah: 68.
341 Zad al-Ma'ad: (Vol. 3/161).

O Prophet! Strive hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern towards them. Their resting place is Hell, and worst indeed is that destination 342
These same words also appear in Surah At-Tahrim, verse 9. Surah At-Tawbah exposed them completely and has even been called, Al-Faadihah, the exposure. Said ibn Jubair reports, in Sahih
al-Bukhari, that he had asked Ibn Abbas about this Surah. He said that it was the one that exposed everyone, it kept coming, and coming until they thought that none of them would be left without having been mentioned in it.343

In Surah an-Nisa' Allah says:

They say: "We are obedient,", but when they leave you (Muhammad), a party of them spend all night planning something other than what you say. But Allah records their nightly (plots). So oppose them and put your trust in Allah, and Allah is Ever All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.344
As for the prohibition of attending their funerals or visiting their graves, Allah says in
Surah At-Tawbah:

And never pray for any of them (hypocrites) who dies, nor visit his grave. Surely they disbelieved
in Allah and His Messenger, and died while they were Faasiqun.345


Ibn Kathir said: "This is a general rule which applies to all whose hypocrisy is known, even though it was actually revealed on account of Abdullah ibn Ubay, the leader of the hypocrites, at
Madinah"346.

The hypocrites excuse for not participating in Jihad was not accepted and so their participation cannot again be permitted. Allah it says:

And if Allah brings you back to a group of them (the hypocrites), and they ask your permission to
go out (to fight), say: "Never shall you go out with me, nor fight an enemy with me; you agreed to
sit inactive on the first occasion, so sit with those who lag behind".347


And again in the same Surah, Allah says:

342 At-Tawbah: 73.
343 Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 8/629, Hadith no. 4882, "The Book of Tafsir", Tafsir Surah al-Hashr.
344 An-Nisa': 81.
345 At-Tawbah: 84.
346 Tafsir Ibn Kathir: Vol.4/132.
347 At-Tawbah: 83.
* Rijsun: That is, Najasun (impure). Impure because of their evil deeds.

They (the hypocrites) will present their excuses to you (Muslims), when you return to them. Say (O Muhammad): Present no excuses, we shall not believe you. Allah has already informed us of the news
concerning you. Allah and His Messenger will observe your deeds. In the end you will be brought back to the All- Knower of the Unseen and the Seen, then He will inform you of what you used to do. They will swear by Allah to you (Muslims) when you return to them, that you may turn away from
them. So turn away from them. Surely, they are Rijsun*, and Hell is their dwelling place, a recompense for that which they used to earn. They (the hypocrites) swear to you (Muslims) that you
may be pleased with them, but if you are pleased with them, certainly Allah is not pleased with the people who are Al-Faasiqun.348

As for asking Allah to forgive them, Allah says,


Whether you (Muhammad) ask forgiveness for them (hypocrites) or ask not forgiveness for them, yet even if you ask for their forgiveness seventy times, Allah will not forgive them; because they have
disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and Allah guides not those who are Faasiqun.349


And again in the Surah Al-Munaafiqun, Allah says:


And when it is said to them: "Come, so that the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness from Allah for you", they turn aside their heads, and you can see them turning their faces away in pride. It does not matter, whether you (Muhammad) ask forgiveness for them (hypocrites) or ask not forgiveness for them, Allah will not forgive them. Verily, Allah guides not those who are
Faasiqun. 350


348 At-Tawbah: 94-96.
349 At-Tawbah: 80.
350 AI-Munaafiqun: 5-6.
http://tawheednyc.com/aqeedah/al wal...lawalbara2.pdf

I hope you re-examine your beliefs and your religion and why you subscribed. It is a package deal, there's no sepration of church and state, least of which when it comes to Daar Al-harb and Daar Al'Islam even if the Muslims are a minority in a corrupt majority, let alone who is actively seeking foreign forces to come all the while burying his head in the sand to the atrocities they commit.
If you want a further discussion I suggest you deal with the fact and not my person. Your feelings about the matter which are so manifestly seething in my CP should remain in the confines of your own mind.

best,

[Abdul Fattah]

Not only ridicule but will point out that what you're doing here puts you outside the fold of Islam

ya Allah Ya Allah YA Allah
You accuse me of being outside of Islam? You accuse me of being a hypocrite? and for what, because I have a diffrent opinion? And without even bothering to find out why I have this opinion?
I pray that Allah subhana wa ta'ala compensates me in the hereafter for your hatefull treatment. You have no proof, no qualifications to judge. I seek refuge against you with Allah.

Ibn al-Qayyim observes that: "the Prophet said that we should take them at face value, [B]leave Allah to deal with what they hide, but confront them with knowledge and truth.

And isn't that the opposite of what you're doing? you're pretending to have knowledge of what you think I have hidden, and rather then confronting me in debate, first you try to ridicule me, and now you just plain insult me?

We have already seen how the most prominent features of their behaviour are their fondness for the disbelievers, their distaste for Islam and their abandonment of the Muslims. In fact, Allah made this clear in the revelation warning the Muslims to be careful and to keep away from them.

And how do you know what my motivations are? When I say I am happy with the intervention of France it is because my main concearn is the security of the muslim people living in Mali, and because I believe they are better of with the current government (despite it flaws that it might have) as opposed to those terrorist rebels. Not because of some twisted fondness I might have for the French.
When I say those extremist rebels are the worst of two evils, it's not because I have a distaste for islam, but because I love Islam, and I firmly believe those groups abuse our religion, and make it into something twisted and evil.

hope you re-examine your beliefs and your religion and why you subscribed.

I hope you re-examine your attitude. you have this way about you, that when somebody disagrees with you even the slightest, you automatically assume they are wrong, misinformed, delusional or what not without even indulging the other in debate. You simply jump to conclusions time after time again. This selfrighteousness is very unhealthy and I suspect it might be fueled by pride, defenitly something that might be worth looking into. Because remember that even an atom of pride might prevent you from entering Jannah.

It is a package deal, there's no sepration of church and state,

I never proposed that there should be. Don't put words in my mouth. My issue is not with them wanting a shariah state. My issue is with their interpretation of what a shariah state actually means, and how to accomplish that.

least of which when it comes to Daar Al-harb and Daar Al'Islam even if the Muslims are a minority in a corrupt majority, let alone who is actively seeking foreign forces to come all the while burying his head in the sand to the atrocities they commit.

Again, I repeat, it was never my intention to glorify the other side. I am well aware of the flaws of the others as well. My argument was that one is the lesser evil as opposed to the other.

If you want a further discussion I suggest you deal with the fact and not my person.

I must say I find that remark very hypocritical of you. If you would be so kind to scroll upwards, you would clearly see you were the one making this personal. you were the one starting to first ridicule my opinion, and then even insult me. And now you're calling me out on making this a personal issue? The nerve.....

[جوري]

ya Allah Ya Allah YA Allah

Certainly the French have a hidden agenda for intervening in Mali

all things considered, I consider the intervention a good thing.

I was glad to hear France decided to intervene because in the long term they might actually have a chance of eventually finding stability and safety

France will surely loot allot of their natural wealth.

I was living over there and I had to choose between getting financially raped by France, Or getting terrorised by some rebels who claim to be enforcing Shariah, my choice would quickly be made.

Oh so killing people because they have commited a small sin (in your interpretation of fiqh) is self defence

I would prefer living in a secular country where I'm safe

, those extremist rebels are defenitly the bad guy

I mean need I say more?

my main concearn is the security of the muslim people living in Mali

Indeed it is better to be a head on a stick paraded by a frenchman!

When I say those extremist rebels are the worst of two evils, it's not because I have a distaste for islam, but because I love Islam, and I firmly believe those groups abuse our religion, and make it into something twisted and evil.

Your beliefs have no basis in reality!

I hope you re-examine your attitude. you have this way about you, that when somebody disagrees with you even the slightest, you automatically assume they are wrong, misinformed, delusional or what not without even indulging the other in debate

I have done nothing of the matter and I welcome you to quote my posts the same way I have done yours and show me where I have accused you of any of that.. in fact let me share what you've written on my CP and you be the judge of who here is projecting:

• 01-24-2013 05:05 PM
  Abdul Fattah
  
  Thread: what the rabid French...
  you're right about one thing, you have no clue...

I never proposed that there should be. Don't put words in my mouth. My issue is not with them wanting a shariah state. My issue is with their interpretation of what a shariah state actually means, and how to accomplish that.

What is your interpretation of sharia and how is theirs inaccurate?

Again, I repeat, it was never my intention to glorify the other side. I am well aware of the flaws of the others as well. My argument was that one is the lesser evil as opposed to the other.

I'll leave your quotes above for keen discerning eyes to judge your intentions!

I must say I find that remark very hypocritical of you. If you would be so kind to scroll upwards, you would clearly see you were the one making this personal. you were the one starting to first ridicule my opinion, and then even insult me. And now you're calling me out on making this a personal issue? The nerve.....

I have scrolled and read.. I am at a loss really.. I haven't even taken out the big guns as you can see it doesn't take me more than 3 minutes to form a reply.. I can't possibly make it personal and invest emotionally having spent a few seconds scanning what you write here.. It really isn't that deep or thought out for me to mull over it or invest emotionally in it.

best,

[islamica]

France admits Algerian colonisation 'brutal'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-2...brutal/4439360

[جوري]

France admits Algerian colonisation 'brutal'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-2...brutal/4439360

We were brutal then but now we're peace loving enforcers of justice who have no desire to loot and kill Muslims whatsoever..
A person is really blind if they haven't a clue how they've divided us apart and eating us up, whether Russia who by the way is ecstatic about all of this given their own demise in Afghanistan, the U.S or Europe.. surely they'll come after us under a thousand Raya.. the prophet :saws: wasn't warning us for idle play.

:w:

[islamica]

One has to wonder when has any european meddling in other countries, be it colonizatins, invasion, occupation, or "liberation", ever done good for the locals? They had a 100 year war killing their own kind, what makes people think they will bring anything other than death and misery to their lands? The secular ignorant that praise them should be kicked out of Muslim lands to go enjoy their secular life among their kind.

[sister herb]

France admits Algerian colonisation 'brutal'

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-2...brutal/4439360

Salam alaykum

A little late from them maybe... Maybe they also can see that attack to Mali is brutal too. Victims there are mostly innocents, like in the Algeria over 50 years ago to the year 1962.

[Abdul Fattah]

I mean need I say more?

YEs of course, you think there is any sign of hypocracy in those quotes? I stand by every single one of them! And I don't think a single one of them shows in any way that I am a hypocrite. So if you wan tto insist on that issue, yes, you'll need to say more. Simply repeating my words is not an argument. Especially not when taken out of context.

Indeed it is better to be a head on a stick paraded by a frenchman!

I never said that being paraded with your head on a stick is better. Do not put words in my mouth. And if you want to make a mockery of my opinion, then at least stop pretending to take the moral highground. First of all I think most of those guys from back in algeria are already retired, so I doubt they would be going for an encore in Mali. Secondly given the evolution in war-correspondance, I don't think they will be able to get way with the same atrocety again given that the whole world is watching with eager eyes. Thirdly, the rebels have commited murders as well. So yeah, thinking of the well-being and safety of the population of Mali I think the French are the lesser evil.

Your beliefs have no basis in realty

That is of course your personal opinion. And while you are certainly entitled to have your own opinion, it is absurd to condemn me of being a hypocrite because I have a diffrent one! there are actuually plenty scholars who will tell you that Fiqh is a very complex matter. And there are tons of proofs that show clearly that the behaviour of those extremists is not as Islam prescribes and is, like I said a twisted perversion of religion. I have even already mentioned a few of those, but I guess you were to busy with accusing me of being a hypocrite to notice them.

I hope you re-examine your attitude. you have this way about you, that when somebody disagrees with you even the slightest, you automatically assume they are wrong, misinformed, delusional or what not without even indulging the other in debate

I have done nothing of the matter and I welcome you to quote my posts the same way I have done yours and show me where I have accused you of any of that

You apperently haven't read my comment. I did not say that you accuse people outright of those things. What I said was that you have this way about you, where said accusation is strongly implied but not actually voiced. Like you would say things like:

One deals with the topic of having her brother's heads chopped off and paraded around by demanding the topic be in English and the other by deflecting all together to make Muslims who are under attack by the same colonialists somehow the bad guy and not only that but is actually happy foreign forces are intervening in a sovereign nation and given a carte blanche to do so.. Sob7an Allah will wonders ever cease? .. how exactly in their dictionary does this make sense? I have no clue, but this takes it to a level far beneath nativity!
It's not a direct accusation, you make sure to take the sneaky way, making it harder for people to confront you on it. You condemn a post, and find it necesairy to voice that clearly, yet you don't confront the poster directly. It's like you wanna have it both ways. you want to put somebody down for disagreeing with you. But rather then actually replying to the post, which would be bothersome, you try and bully the pesron away like that.

I have done nothing of the matter and I welcome you to quote my posts the same way I have done yours and show me where I have accused you of any of that.. in fact let me share what you've written on my CP and you be the judge of who here is projecting:

Yes I will not deny I made that comment. Perhaps not the best way to respond, I'lll admit that. I was angry with you because of your reply and needed to vent that. But, come to think about it, didn't you reply that kindness? So aren't you now again accusing me of something you yourself are guilty of as well? Not to mention that the reason I was angry in the first place was for you making a mockery of my opinion. So yeah, who's the hypocrite now?

What is your interpretation of sharia and how is theirs inaccurate?

I'm glad you finally ask, after already having condemned me of being a hypocrite. Well Like I was replying to some of the other posters, I do believe in Shariah Law, but it has due proces, a judge, a trial and what not, there are requirements that need be met and so on. Secondly, not every sin is a matter that should be enforced by the state. Matters in which there are diffrences in opinon should clearly never be forced upon anyone. And even some of the matters on which everybody agrees on, are not things which the goverment should enforce but are things which is a personal choice between an individual and Allah. Then other things need to be enforced, but with the right method and a fitting punishment. Why theirs is wrong? Well how about this for starters: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/mali-...ars-2012-05-15

I'll leave your quotes above for keen discerning eyes to judge your intentions!

I stil lstand by every single one of those quotes, and I still fail to see what's hypocritical about them.

I have scrolled and read.. I am at a loss really.. I haven't even taken out the big guns as you can see it doesn't take me more than 3 minutes to form a reply.. I can't possibly make it personal and invest emotionally having spent a few seconds scanning what you write here.. It really isn't that deep or thought out for me to mull over it or invest emotionally in it.

first of all, I didn't say you were emotionally invested. Instead I said you were the one making it personal. You were the one making ad hominim arguments, attacking me personal. And I can believe you when you say you were not emotionally invested in said attacks, but that doesn't change the hypocrisy of you telling me not to make it personal.
Second, Perhaps that's the problem in the first place? You just scan ahead, pick a few random quotes, take just a few minutes to reply. Maybe you should put some more thought in it? Just an idea...

[جوري]

YEs of course, you think there is any sign of hypocracy in those quotes? I stand by every single one of them! And I don't think a single one of them shows in any way that I am a hypocrite. So if you wan tto insist on that issue, yes, you'll need to say more. Simply repeating my words is not an argument. Especially not when taken out of context.

That is what my post on wala and bara is for. I have included the entire book in PDF format and have highlighted using your quotes which parts are incongruent with being a Muslim!
I can include another one hour video but it is in Arabic. It will show you the ten things under which 44 other biggies fall and one of them is what you've displayed here and repeatedly!

I never said that being paraded with your head on a stick is better. Do not put words in my mouth. And if you want to make a mockery of my opinion, then at least stop pretending to take the moral highground. First of all I think most of those guys from back in algeria are already retired, so I doubt they would be going for an encore in Mali. Secondly given the evolution in war-correspondance, I don't think they will be able to get way with the same atrocety again given that the whole world is watching with eager eyes. Thirdly, the rebels have commited murders as well. So yeah, thinking of the well-being and safety of the population of Mali I think the French are the lesser evil.

what should we interpret your quotes where you repeatedly express your desire for the French to go in and are happy with them looting so long as they're not under the threat of those 'Islamists' whom you deem the 'bad guy'? Also given that you're neither a strategist, From Mali or Algeria I suggest you quite speaking on their behalf or speak of the alleged evolution that has taken place. It is the same style crusade different decade is all.
The point of history is to learn something from it!

It's not a direct accusation,

If it isn't direct and palpable then quit wasting my time. Don't be so quick to project all the while and in the same breath expecting to be handled with kid gloves.

Yes I will not deny I made that comment. Perhaps not the best way to respond, I'lll admit that. I was angry with you because of your reply and needed to vent that. But, come to think about it, didn't you reply that kindness? So aren't you now again accusing me of something you yourself are guilty of as well? Not to mention that the reason I was angry in the first place was for you making a mockery of my opinion. So yeah, who's the hypocrite now?

Still you!! Responding in kind is expected when one is dealt with unjustly but to accuse hit and run and expect it swept under the rug well atop of hypocrisy it is also cowardly but we're not here for the name calling are we?

I'm glad you finally ask, after already having condemned me of being a hypocrite. Well Like I was replying to some of the other posters, I do believe in Shariah Law, but it has due proces, a judge, a trial and what not, there are requirements that need be met and so on. Secondly, not every sin is a matter that should be enforced by the state. Matters in which there are diffrences in opinon should clearly never be forced upon anyone. And even some of the matters on which everybody agrees on, are not things which the goverment should enforce but are things which is a personal choice between an individual and Allah. Then other things need to be enforced, but with the right method and a fitting punishment. Why theirs is wrong? Well how about this for starters: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/mali-...ars-2012-05-15

fascinating .. how about in lieu of 'amnesty international' and some outside organization you quote the Malians and the so-called terrorists? Oh I forgot you're too afraid to go there yet quick to judge how the situation should be handled!

I stil lstand by every single one of those quotes, and I still fail to see what's hypocritical about them.

See paragraph one and the booklet I attached. I have dealt with you justly all throughout!

You just scan ahead, pick a few random quotes, take just a few minutes to reply

I rather think you've nothing of substance to impart and I say this with all modesty but I have always been a speed reader a speed writer and always ranked top III in all my classes from school to grad school. I have given your posts exactly the amount of time they deserved.

best,

[Muhammad]

:salamext:

I'm not sure where this thread is going... I think most of the posts that have been made so far have very little to do with what is happening in Algeria or Mali. Let us avoid wasting any more time and instead focus our energy on making du'a for our suffering brothers and sisters.