Meteorite crashed in russia - 500 injured

[Jedi_Mindset]

Meteorite hits Russian Urals: Fireball explosion wreaks havoc, up to 500 injured (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

Russia’s Urals region has been rocked by a meteorite explosion in the stratosphere. The impact wave damaged several buildings, and blew out thousands of windows amid frigid winter weather. Hundreds are seeking medicalattention for minor injuries.
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Eyewitness accounts of the meteorite phenomenon, handpicked by RT.
According to unconfirmed reports, the meteorite was intercepted by an air defense unit at the Urzhumka settlement near Chelyabinsk. A missile salvo blew the meteorite to pieces at an altitude of 20 kilometers, local newspaper Znak reports quoting a source in the military.
A meteorite is a solid piece of debris from space objects such as asteroids or comets, ranging in size from tiny to gigantic.

When a meteorite falls on Earth, passing through the atmosphere causes it to heat up and emit a trail of light, forming a fireball known as a meteor, or shooting or falling star.

A bright flash was seen in the Chelyabinsk, Tyumen and Sverdlovsk regions, Russia’s Republic of Bashkiria and in northern Kazakhstan.
Up to 500 people sought medical attention as a result of the incident, according to the Russian Interior Ministry. No serious injuries have been reported, with most of the injuries caused by broken glass and minor concussions.
The Russian army has joined the rescue operation. Army units are searching for meteorite debris in several places, including an area near a military base next to Chebarkul Lake, west of Chelyabinsk. Another search area is 80 kilometers further to the northwest, near the town of Kusa.
Military units are also searching for possible debris in the neighboring Tyumen region.
Radiation, chemical and biological protection units have been put on high alert. Since the explosion occurred several kilometers above the Earth, a large ground area must be thoroughly checked for radiation and other threats.

At least one piece of the fallen object caused damage on the ground in Chelyabinsk. According to preliminary reports, it crashed into a wall near a zinc factory, disrupting the city's Internet and mobile service.
The Emergency Ministry reported that 20,000 rescue workers are operating in the region. Three aircraft were deployed to survey the area and locate other possible impact locations.
Witnesses said the explosion was so loud that it seemed like an earthquake and thunder had struck at the same time, and that there were huge trails of smoke across the sky. Others reported seeing burning objects fall to earth.

Police in the Chelyabinsk region are reportedly on high alert, and have begun ‘Operation Fortress’ in order to protect vital infrastructure.

Office buildings in downtown Chelyabinsk are being evacuated. Injuries were reported at one of the city’s secondary schools, supposedly from smashed windows.

An emergency message published on the website of the Chelyabinsk regional authority urged residents to pick up their children from school and remain at home if possible.
Those in Chelyabinsk who had their windows smashed are scrambling to cover the openings with anything available – the temperature in the city is currently -6°C.
Chelyabinsk regional governor Mikhail Yurevich is urgently returning to the region. Yurevich said that preserving the city’s central heating system is authorities’ primary goal.
“Do not panic, this is an ordinary situation we can manage in a couple of days,” the governor said in and address to city residents.

Background radiation levels in Chelyabinsk remain unchanged, the Emergency Ministry reported.

The regional Emergency Ministry said the phenomenon was a meteorite shower, but locals have speculated that it was a military fighter jet crash or a missile explosion.
“According to preliminary data, the flashes seen over the Urals were caused by [a] meteorite shower," the Emergency Ministry told Itar-Tass news agency.
The ministry also said that no local power stations or civil aircraft were damaged by the meteorite shower, and that“all flights proceed according to schedule.”
Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who also oversees the Russian defense industry, wrote on Twitter that he would speak with Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev about the incident in the Urals.
“On Monday I will bring to Medvedev a straight picture of what has happened in the Urals and prospective proposals of how the country can find out about the dangers approaching Earth and deal with them,” Rogozin wrote.

Residents of the town of Emanzhilinsk, some 50 kilometers from Chelyabinsk, said they saw a flying object that suddenly burst into flames, broke apart and fell to earth, and that a black cloud had been seen hanging above the town. Witnesses in Chelyabinsk said the city’s air smells like gunpowder.

Residents across the Urals region were informed about the incident through a cellphone text message from the regional Emergency Ministry.
Many locals reported that the explosion rattled their houses and smashed windows.
“This explosion, my ears popped, windows were smashed… phone doesn’t work,”Evgeniya Gabun wrote on Twitter.
“My window smashed, I am all shaking! Everybody says that a plane crashed,” Twitter user Katya Grechannikova reported.
“My windows were not smashed, but I first thought that my house is being dismantled, then I thought it was a UFO, and my eventual thought was an earthquake,” Bukreeva Olga wrote on Twitter.
The Mayak nuclear complex near the town of Ozersk was not affected by the incident, according to reports. Mayak, one of the world’s biggest nuclear facilities that used to house plutonium production reactors and a reprocessing plant, is located 72 kilometers northwest of Chelyabinsk.

It is believed that the incident may be connected to asteroid 2012 DA14, which measures 45 to 95 meters in diameter and will be passing by Earth tonight at around 19:25 GMT at the record close range of 27,000 kilometers.

Another Tunguska event?

The incident in Chelyabinsk bears a strong resemblance to the 1908 Tunguska event – an exceptionally powerful explosion in Siberia believed to have been caused by a fragment of a comet or meteor.
According to estimates, the energy of the Tunguska blast may have been as high as 50 megatons of TNT, equal to a nuclear explosion. Some 80 million trees were leveled over a 2,000-square-kilometer area. The Tunguska blast remains one of the most mysterious events in history, prompting a wide array of hypotheses on its cause, including a black hole passing through Earth and the wreck of an alien spacecraft.
It is believed that if the Tunguska event had happened 4 hours later, due to the rotation of the Earth it would have completely destroyed the city of Vyborg and significantly damaged St. Petersburg.

When a similar, though less powerful, unexplained explosion happened in Brazil in 1930, it was named the ‘Brazilian Tunguska.’ The Tunguska event also prompted debate and research into preventing or mitigating asteroid impacts.

pics:

http://rt.com/news/meteorite-crash-u...elyabinsk-283/

[Mustafa2012]

I wonder if this is a warning to Russia for their support of the Syrian genocide?

[Tyrion]

You guys should watch the videos, it's incredible.

I wonder if this is a warning to Russia for their support of the Syrian genocide?

Or maybe a rock happened to fall down in Russia from space.

[ba51th]

:Alhumdill

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[GuestFellow]

I blame the illuminati. :skeleton:

You guys should watch the videos, it's incredible.

Yeah a rock falling is so incredible.

I wonder if this is a warning to Russia for their support of the Syrian genocide?

If that was the case, America would probably have been smashed to pieces from these meteorites.

[sister herb]

Scarry! :skeleton:

[Mustafa2012]

You guys should watch the videos, it's incredible.

Or maybe a rock happened to fall down in Russia from space.

Don't you think the timing is quite co-incidental?

[Mustafa2012]

I blame the illuminati. :skeleton:

Yeah a rock falling is so incredible.

If that was the case, America would probably have been smashed to pieces from these meteorites.

How do you know what Allaah has in store for them in the future?

Allaah is The one who decides when and how much to punish, not us.

[sister herb]

I wonder if this is a warning to Russia for their support of the Syrian genocide?

Only Allah knows the truth but I think Moscow and house of Putin would be better target if someone wants to think kind of reason is possible, not village of ordinary people.

[GuestFellow]

How do you know what Allaah has in store for them in the future?

I said if what you said was true, then America would probably be mashed by a rock because America kills more people. I never said I some how know what Allah has planned for the future.

[GuestFellow]

Don't you think the timing is quite co-incidental?

No, not really.

[Jedi_Mindset]

America already is, economic collapse. ;)

The usures have waged a war on Allah(SWT), big mistake, and now they're paying the price. The dollars is collapsing, wether with purpose or not, it is a punishment for them by using riba, usury, interest. Plus that, they're destroying muslim lands, killing muslims and are waging a war on islam.

Allah knows best

anyway, lets not talk regarding these topics here.

May Allah protect us from the fitnah and fasaad committed by masih-ad dajjal. Ameen

[Mustafa2012]

I said if what you said was true, then America would probably be mashed by a rock because America kills more people. I never said I some how know what Allah has planned for the future.

Nuff said

[iRock]

This is a deadly strike from the sky for the country support Syria government :embarrass

[Urban Turban]

Isn't the number 1200?

[Muslimlearner]

Indeed, it is a sign for people who think.

[Jedi_Mindset]

Isn't the number 1200?

Yes it is, but i cant edit the title.

[Jedi_Mindset]

I made a post some where else, but i am gonna post it here:

The devils are being stoned to death, what is to difficult to understand?

The world leaders, the usurers the bankers are waging a war on Allah(SWT), the shayateen cant eavesdrop anymore, and when they approach the gates of paradise the angels(As) will throw stones at them.



like the nation of lut(As), these nations of wrong doers will be targeted with stones of baked clay insha'Allah.


[11:82] Surat Hud
So when Our command came, We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of layered hard clay, [which were]

[11:83]Marked from your Lord. And Allah 's punishment is not from the wrongdoers [very] far.

from Tafseer ibn Kathir:

The Town of Lut's People is overturned and Their Destruction
Allah, the Exalted, says,

فَلَمَّا جَاء أَمْرُنَا ...

So when Our commandment came,

This happened at sunrise.
... جَعَلْنَا عَالِيَهَا ...
We (turned it)...),

The city of Sadum (Sodom)
... سَافِلَهَا ...
upside down,

This is similar to Allah's statement,
فَغَشَّـهَا مَا غَشَّى
So there covered them that which did cover (torment with stones). (53:54)
... وَأَمْطَرْنَا عَلَيْهَا حِجَارَةً مِّن سِجِّيلٍ مَّنضُودٍ ﴿٨٢﴾
and rained on them stones of clay, in an array.

This means, "We rained upon it with stones made of Sijjil.''
Sijjil is a Persian word meaning stones made of clay.
This definition has been mentioned by Ibn Abbas and others.
Some of the scholars said that it (Sijjil) derived from the word Sang, which means a stone.
Some others said it means Wakil, which is clay.
In another verse Allah says,

حِجَارَةً مِّن طِينٍ

the stones of clay, (51:32)
This means clay made into strong, hard stone.

Some of the scholars said it means baked clay.
Al-Bukhari said,
"Sijjil means that which is big and strong.''
Concerning Allah's statement,
مَّنضُودٍ (in an array).

Some of the scholars said that Mandud means the stones were arranged in the heavens and prepared for that (destruction).
Others said,
This word means that some of them (the stones) followed others in their descent upon the people of Lut.
Concerning the statement,
مُّسَوَّمَةً ...
Marked,
meaning the stones were marked and sealed, all of them having the names of their victims written on them.

Qatadah and Ikrimah both said,
"Musawwamah means each stone was encompassed by a sprinkling of red coloring.''

The commentators have mentioned that;
it (the shower of stones) descended upon the people of the town and upon the various villages around it. One of them would be speaking with some people when a stone would strike him from the sky and kill him while he was among the people. Thus, the stones followed them, striking the people in the entire land until they destroyed them all. Not a single one of them remained.
.
.. عِندَ رَبِّكَ ...
...from your Lord;
Concerning Allah's statement,
... وَمَا هِيَ مِنَ الظَّالِمِينَ بِبَعِيدٍ ﴿٨٣﴾
and they are not ever far from the wrongdoers.

This means that this vengeance (of Allah) is not far from similar wrongdoers.
Verily, it has been reported in a Hadith of the Sunan collections, from Ibn Abbas, which he attributed to the Prophet,
مَنْ وَجَدْتُمُوهُ يَعْمَلُ عَمَلَ قَوْمِ لُوطٍ فَاقْتُلُوا الْفَاعِلَ وَالْمَفْعُولَ بِه
Whoever you find doing the deed of Lut's people (homosexuality), then kill the doer and the one who allows it to be done to him (both partners

---------------------------------

This is one of the surahs which made the hair grey of prophet muhammed sallalahu Alayhi Wassalam

Chapter 05. Appearing Of The White Hair Of Rasoolullah

Abu Juhayfa R.A. says: 'The people said: "O Rasulallah, (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam)! we see the signs of old age beginning to show on you?" Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) replied: "Surah Hud and similar surahs have made me old".

Commentary.
It is related in a hadith that Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) once came out of his house, wiping his hands on his blessed beared. Abu Bakr and Umar R.A. were sitting in the Masjid at that time. When AbuBakr R.A. saw this he said: 'O Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be sacrificed for you. How early you have aged'. Then he began to weep. Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) said: "Surahs like Surah Hud have made me old".

Zamakh'shari says: "He read in a kitaab, that a person had pure black hair one evening, and during the night it became completely white. When the people enquired of this sudden change, he said: "At night, I saw Qiyaamah, in my dream. People were being pulled with chains and thrown into Hell. It frightened me so much, that within the night I became like this". Allah is Great.


Shama-il Tirmidhi Chapter 005, Hadith Number 005 (040).
Chapter 05. Appearing Of The White Hair Of Rasoolullah

Ibne Abbas R.A. reports: "Abu Bakr R.A. once said, 'O Messenger of Allah, you have become old'. (What is the reason? Due to this mild and soft temperament he ought to be young, and also according to his age he could be still called young). Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) replied: "The recitation of Surahs Hud, Waaqiah, Mursalat, Amma and Kuwwirah has made me old'".

Commentary.
Apart form these surahs the Surahs of Al-Haaqqah, Al-Qaariah, Al- Ghaashiah etc. have also been mentioned. In short all those surahs wherein frightening matters are mentioned, e.g. Qiyaamah, (Day of judgement) Hell, the Trumpet, the punishment of evil people etc. In hadith it is stated that Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) said: "If you knew what I know, you would laugh less and cry more. You would even stop going to your wives (or as he had said)". It is written in the Sharhus Sunnah that a person saw Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) in his dream. He asked: "O Rasulallah, (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam)! This hadith has reached me, that you said: 'Surah Hud has made me old'". Rasulullah (Sallallahu alaihe wasallam) replied: "There is one verse in it 'Wastaqim kama umirta' (Stay steadfast on the religion as I have commanded you). And it is well-known that to stay steadfast on the commandments of Allah is very difficult". That is why the Sufiya have written that to remain steadfast is better than a thousand miracles.

--------

To be honest, this surah terrifies me too. It makes want to prostrate and repent subhan'Allah

May Allah Azza Wa Jal protect me from arrogance. Ameen

May Allah protect us from the evils and fitnah of masid ad-dajjal. Ameen

Ya Allah, the most mercifull, the most beneficient may you forgive my sins, sins i have done out of ignorance or out of my desires. Ameen

[Independent]

Meteorites of varying sizes hit the earth all the time, and did so for billions of years before there were any people to be 'morally' punished.

There is no evidence I've ever seen of a pattern of strikes based on moral criteria.

As science advances we are now able to track larger bodies and will one day be able to track bodies of the size that hit Russia. It is likely that we will also, one day, be able to deflect bodies that are large enough to do damage.

At that point the 'moral' punishment by meteorites will therefore cease. By act of man. Forever.

Of course, call me crazy, but it could simply be that these things are all flying around according to the laws of physics....

[Jedi_Mindset]

Meteorites of varying sizes hit the earth all the time, and did so for billions of years before there were any people to be 'morally' punished.

There is no evidence I've ever seen of a pattern of strikes based on moral criteria.

As science advances we are now able to track larger bodies and will one day be able to track bodies of the size that hit Russia. It is likely that we will also, one day, be able to deflect bodies that are large enough to do damage.

At that point the 'moral' punishment by meteorites will therefore cease. By act of man. Forever.

Of course, call me crazy, but it could simply be that these things are all flying around according to the laws of physics....

before the humans came, there were jinns.

I think you dont understand it, first of all according to our beliefs these things are made to stone the shayateen, the jinns who came to eavesdrop at the gates of paradise. These smaller meteorites are actually that. They are actually to chase the shayateen away.

Science this, science that. But never it will be really proven how long the earth exists, textbooks already accept the '4.5 billion' thingy. Many things cant and never will be explained with science.

[Dburzon]

As science advances we are now able to track larger bodies and will one day be able to track bodies of the size that hit Russia. It is likely that we will also, one day, be able to deflect bodies..

They are working on the plans and funding right now for a more reliable tracking system.
Goal is being on station by 2016.

I fully agree that the next step will be shooting them down like a anti aircraft system.

I don't think it will take long before that technology is within reach.

[Jedi_Mindset]

They are working on the plans and funding right now for a more reliable tracking system.
Goal is being on station by 2016.

I fully agree that the next step will be shooting them down like a anti aircraft system.

I don't think it will take long before that technology is within reach.

Remember that when these things enter the atmosphere it is very difficult to shoot them down, these things go with thousands of miles per hour, around 30.000/40.000 miles per hour perhaps.

[Dburzon]

Remember that when these things enter the atmosphere it is very difficult to shoot them down, these things go with thousands of miles per hour, around 30.000/40.000 miles per hour perhaps.

I don't believe we have the technology to do it right now.
They are moving faster then ICBMs.

Also hitting them above the earth atmosphere might be currently impossible.

[Al-Mufarridun]

I'm bit cautious with this. Will it be an international effort, truly international, or will it only be few individual states with the same worldview labeling themselves as 'international'?

I am not comfortable with the weaponization of space.

[Dburzon]

I'm bit cautious with this. Will it be an international effort, truly international, or will it only be few individual states with the same worldview labeling themselves as 'international'?

I am not comfortable with the weaponization of space.

I can't post the link since I'm a newbie.

Russia has approved a $2bn plan for the project of a advanced tracking system and shield.

No further details. Which means it is all just researching and planning at this point.


I can see how this whole idea might have terrible consequences.

[ardianto]

I don't believe we have the technology to do it right now.
They are moving faster then ICBMs.

Also hitting them above the earth atmosphere might be currently impossible.

How about hitting them before entering the atmosphere?.

Frankly, this meteorite crash event remind me to "Deep Impact".

[sister herb]

How about hitting them before entering the atmosphere?.

Aren´t the scientists already planning kind of system - for situations when some very big meteorite might hit to the earth? I think I read about it before. But I think that this kind of smaller ones, which cause only local damage is harder to prevent (as most of the meteorites burn when they come to the atmosphere and rest of them settle to uninhabited areas).

[Independent]

Aren´t the scientists already planning kind of system - for situations when some very big meteorite might hit to the earth?

Yes they are. Russia in particular has been talking this way - about partially exploding large objects in space, before they reach the earth. Some objects are big enough to do very serious damage. For instance, the whole of the Gulf of Mexico is an impact crater (which some people say wiped out the dinosaurs although this is disputed).

Right now the technology isn't really good enough but give it a few decades and it will be...

[ardianto]

Aren´t the scientists already planning kind of system - for situations when some very big meteorite might hit to the earth? I think I read about it before. But I think that this kind of smaller ones, which cause only local damage is harder to prevent (as most of the meteorites burn when they come to the atmosphere and rest of them settle to uninhabited areas).

I know scientist already planning system for protect earth from asteroid or comet that might hit earth. Actually idea of "Deep Impact" and "Armageddon" were based on this planning.

For smaller meteorite?. There are many meteorite that entering the atmosphere every day, but mostly of them burn in atmosphere and reach the earth as dusts. But sometime the size are still bigger when reach earth surface.

[Woodrow]

Isn't the number 1200?

They are finding it was larger than initially reported and there was more damage and injuries.

This is the most recent report I am able to find.

HERE

[Mustafa2012]

Meteorites of varying sizes hit the earth all the time, and did so for billions of years before there were any people to be 'morally' punished.

There is no evidence I've ever seen of a pattern of strikes based on moral criteria.

As science advances we are now able to track larger bodies and will one day be able to track bodies of the size that hit Russia. It is likely that we will also, one day, be able to deflect bodies that are large enough to do damage.

At that point the 'moral' punishment by meteorites will therefore cease. By act of man. Forever.

Of course, call me crazy, but it could simply be that these things are all flying around according to the laws of physics....

In my experience, atheists have a way of logically explaining just about everything.

However those who believe in religion and a Creator who rewards and punishes, usually believe that natural disasters are the work of The Creator and a sign.

Man seems to be figuring ways to do more and more things every day.

Do you think man will one day find a way to stop earthquakes, tornados, floods, disease, death etc. one day?

[Independent]

Do you think man will one day find a way to stop earthquakes, tornados, floods, disease, death etc. one day

Stop them, no. Reduce the damage - absolutely and it's already been happening. Early warning systems for earthquakes and tsunami have helped people escape. Building regulations mean houses are less likely to collapse. Flood defence systems such as the remarkable Thames Barrier in London help avoid major disasters. As for death - modern medicine has hugely reduced neo-natal mortality rates, diseases and improved surgical peformance. Penicillin alone has saved untold millions. Isn't this fantastic? Should we not celebrate this? The most optimistic publication in the world today is the New Scientist magazine. You cannot read it and not feel inspired, as well as full of admiration for your fellow men.

In my experience, atheists have a way of logically explaining just about everything

Is that a bad thing?

[Amat Allah]

Assalaamu Alikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakaatuh

We better return to Sunnah in everything to know how to react and what say as Allah taught us through our beloved prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)...

Form the book of Jaami Attirmithi:

أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قالَ: مَنْ رَأَى صَاحِبَ بَلَاءٍ فَقَالَ الحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي عَافَانِي مِمَّا ابْتَلَاكَ بِهِ وَفَضَّلَنِي عَلَى كَثِيرٍ مِمَّنْ خَلَقَ تَفْضِيلًا إِلَّا عُوفِيَ مِنْ ذَلِكَ الْبَلَاءِ كَائِنًا مَا كَانَ مَا عَاشَ

حديث حسن

Umar(may Allah Be pleased with him) reported that Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

“If anyone says on seeing someone in afliction:

Praise belongs to Allah Who saved me from that with which He has afflicted you, and caused me to excel over most of those whom He created with a distinct excellence, then he will be saved from the affliction whatever it be as long as he lives.

[Ibn Majah 3892]

قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : مَنْ رَأَى مُبْتَلًى فَقَالَ الحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ الَّذِي عَافَانِي مِمَّا ابْتَلَاكَ بِهِ وَفَضَّلَنِي عَلَى كَثِيرٍ مِمَّنْ خَلَقَ تَفْضِيلًا لمْ يُصِبْهُ ذَلِكَ الْبَلَاء
حديث صحيح

Narrated Abu Huraira (May Allah Be pleased with him); that Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

“He who sees an afflicted person and says:

Praise belongs to Allah Who saved me wherewith he has afflicted you and made me to excel singularly over many of those whom He created, then that offliction will never afflict him.

We better thank Allah that that thing didn't land over our heads and ask Him The Most Merciful to protect us from such things and to ease people's grief and hardships guiding us and them to Him always ... O Allah Ameeen

[Mustafa2012]

Stop them, no. Reduce the damage - absolutely and it's already been happening. Early warning systems for earthquakes and tsunami have helped people escape. Building regulations mean houses are less likely to collapse. Flood defence systems such as the remarkable Thames Barrier in London help avoid major disasters. As for death - modern medicine has hugely reduced neo-natal mortality rates, diseases and improved surgical peformance. Penicillin alone has saved untold millions. Isn't this fantastic? Should we not celebrate this? The most optimistic publication in the world today is the New Scientist magazine. You cannot read it and not feel inspired, as well as full of admiration for your fellow men.

Is that a bad thing?

On the one hand I think that whatever efforts man has made to prevent the in-evitable and pro-long life is commendable.

On the other hand there is the side of me that sees that many diseases and health conditions including death are all eventually in-evitable and within the control of and a sign of The Power and existence of a Creator. We can do all we can to pro long life but no man has achieved immortality to date.

This is the part that I was actually referring to in my last post.

Do you not see the actions that are beyond the control of man as a sign of the existence of The Creator who is causing all these actions to happen?

[Independent]

Do you not see the actions that are beyond the control of man as a sign of the existence of The Creator who is causing all these actions to happen?

From what I can see, both natural disasters (earthquakes etc) and diseases have causes that we can determine in physics, biology or the relevant science. Where there are gaps, it seems reasonable to expect they will one day be filled, as they have done in the past.

They may be a God, but even if there is I still don't see why we should attach moral significance to natural disasters.

For instance, you might obviously say that STDs such as syphilis are the judgement of God for too many sexual partners. But I would see it simply as a reflection of the fact that disease takes every opportunity to fill every niche, and every form of contact. Disease is morally blind. You might as well say that meningitis is a judgement on too many creches.

A great many diseases jumped species from animals many thousands of years ago, through close proximity with humans when we began farming. Many of our worst diseases are, to a large extent, the direct consequence of agriculture. As hunter gatherers we suffered from a fraction of the diseases we have now and widespread transmission was difficult.

That's not morality - it's a reflection of the natural laws of contagion.

Today, the highest death rates from disease or natural disasters are mostly connected with poverty. AIDS might damage a western society, but it wipes out African communities because of poverty. The Haiti earthquake killed vast numbers because of poor building construction and other factors of poverty or bad government.

Therefore, if you measure things by disasters, then it would seem that to be poor is to be immoral. That can't be right and it conflicts with religion in other ways as I'm sure you'll agree.

So, these events are not moral events.

[Logikon]

Do you think man will one day find a way to stop earthquakes, tornados, floods, disease, death etc. one day?

Not stop earthquakes or tornadoes. But will find a way to predict them and reduce the number of deaths.

Floods: Usually we know when a flood is coming. With technology walls can be raised and lowered quickly. It is some time off.

Disease: We live a lot longer than our anscestors did. It is due to more healthy life style, better hygiene, better food and better medicine.

Death. We can't beat death. We can prolong life.

[Logikon]

Do you not see the actions that are beyond the control of man as a sign of the existence of The Creator who is causing all these actions to happen?

All you have said here is that you don't understand something and therefore the thing must have been done by a god.
.

[Mustafa2012]

All you have said here is that you don't understand something and therefore the thing must have been done by a god.
.

No, you have mis-interpreted my words.

In no place did I say, "I don't understand something and therefore the thing must have been done by a god."

In fact my view is the total opposite of your interpretation.

I actually believe that all of the actions that take place in the universe which are not within the control of mankind or Jinn are the actions of The Creator who has the perfect ability to control everything.

My belief is based on rational, logical thinking based on:

1. Divine knowledge passed on from all the previous prophets and Messengers mentioned in the Holy scriptures of the Bible, Torah and The Qur'an which is perfectly compatible with science. In fact the facts mentioned in The Qur'an is way ahead of man made scientific discoveries.

2. Reflection of the law of cause of effect which says that every cause has an effect. Since man did not create himself or the universe, there has to be an intelligent cause behind it. Therefore I am 100% sure that there is a Creator and Sustainer who has got to have all the attributes of Perfection to be able to design, create and control such a great universe and all the multitude of creations within it.

[Mustafa2012]

From what I can see, both natural disasters (earthquakes etc) and diseases have causes that we can determine in physics, biology or the relevant science. Where there are gaps, it seems reasonable to expect they will one day be filled, as they have done in the past.

They may be a God, but even if there is I still don't see why we should attach moral significance to natural disasters.

For instance, you might obviously say that STDs such as syphilis are the judgement of God for too many sexual partners. But I would see it simply as a reflection of the fact that disease takes every opportunity to fill every niche, and every form of contact. Disease is morally blind. You might as well say that meningitis is a judgement on too many creches.

A great many diseases jumped species from animals many thousands of years ago, through close proximity with humans when we began farming. Many of our worst diseases are, to a large extent, the direct consequence of agriculture. As hunter gatherers we suffered from a fraction of the diseases we have now and widespread transmission was difficult.

That's not morality - it's a reflection of the natural laws of contagion.

Today, the highest death rates from disease or natural disasters are mostly connected with poverty. AIDS might damage a western society, but it wipes out African communities because of poverty. The Haiti earthquake killed vast numbers because of poor building construction and other factors of poverty or bad government.

Therefore, if you measure things by disasters, then it would seem that to be poor is to be immoral. That can't be right and it conflicts with religion in other ways as I'm sure you'll agree.

So, these events are not moral events.

Ok, I understand what you're saying and if you look at it from a logical position you could argue that natural disasters have no connection to morality.

You quote AIDS as an example that affects African communities than Western ones. Maybe you're not aware but there is a theory which has some validity that AIDS in Africa was spread via western medical teams passing it on to people in the disguise of vaccinations, in order to wipe out people in the region.

The reason we believe that natural disasters are a form of divine punishment is because in The Bible and Qur'an there is reference to these phenomena having a divine connection.

If someone really wanted to leave the work of a Divine Creator out of the equation, they could logically explain everything but there will come a point where some thing cannot be logically explained or make sense unless the action of a Divine Creator is taken into consideration.

[GodIsAll]

In my experience, atheists have a way of logically explaining just about everything.

However those who believe in religion and a Creator who rewards and punishes, usually believe that natural disasters are the work of The Creator and a sign.

Man seems to be figuring ways to do more and more things every day.

Do you think man will one day find a way to stop earthquakes, tornados, floods, disease, death etc. one day?

Boy I hope not...we've taken out too many limiting factors already.

[Independent]

You quote AIDS as an example that affects African communities than Western ones. Maybe you're not aware but there is a theory which has some validity that AIDS in Africa was spread via western medical teams passing it on to people in the disguise of vaccinations, in order to wipe out people in the region.

I have heard the theory and it's malicious nonsense. People are always inventing nasty rumours about vaccinations, instead of celebrating the eradication of horrible diseases like smallpox. Hopefully we will be able to eliminate polio soon as well.

However, the more general point is that poor communities are more vulnerable to most diseases - such as cholera which is the result of inadequate fresh water supplies.

The reason we believe that natural disasters are a form of divine punishment is because in The Bible and Qur'an there is reference to these phenomena having a divine connection.

When i was a Christian I read this metaphorically, but I understand that Muslims don't.

If someone really wanted to leave the work of a Divine Creator out of the equation, they could logically explain everything but there will come a point where some thing cannot be logically explained or make sense unless the action of a Divine Creator is taken into consideration

There's a lot about this in the Atheism Disproved in one paragraph thread, or whatever it's called.

[ardianto]

The reason we believe that natural disasters are a form of divine punishment is because in The Bible and Qur'an there is reference to these phenomena having a divine connection.

Do you mean earthquakes and tsunamis that often happened in Indonesia are punishment for Indonesian people?

[Mustafa2012]

I have heard the theory and it's malicious nonsense. People are always inventing nasty rumours about vaccinations, instead of celebrating the eradication of horrible diseases like smallpox. Hopefully we will be able to eliminate polio soon as well.

However, the more general point is that poor communities are more vulnerable to most diseases - such as cholera which is the result of inadequate fresh water supplies.


When i was a Christian I read this metaphorically, but I understand that Muslims don't.


There's a lot about this in the Atheism Disproved in one paragraph thread, or whatever it's called.

I wouldn't put it past some people to think of and even carry out a plan like that. By the way I didn't read it off some conspiracy theory website. It was from a book written by a westerner.

I agree that sometimes poor communities are more vulnerable. Sometimes natural disasters are not always punishments. We don't always know the reasons behind the actions of the Divine Creator.

Some verses in religious scripture are metaphoric and some are literal.

There was one explanation given by some scholar as to why atheists choose to reject the idea of a Creator.

He said that by rejecting a Creator, they psychologically let them themselves off the hook. Then they don't have to be accountable for their actions. It eases their conscience and they feel they can do as they wish without anyone to answer for.

What do you think of this explanation?

[Mustafa2012]

Do you mean earthquakes and tsunamis that often happened in Indonesia are punishment for Indonesian people?

Allaah knows best why he does things.

Sometimes He might just decide to cause an earthquake as a sign of His Power and a warning to others.

However in the Bible and Qur'an natural disasters are spoken about a lot. The people of the past were destroyed for their disbelief and transgression with different kinds of natural disasters.

Even Christian Leaders blamed the recent tornados in the U.S. on the sins of their people.

[Tyrion]

Allaah knows best why he does things.

Exactly, so leave it that way. Don't try and speak for god by saying such and such disaster was obviously a punishment for that nation. It's not right.

Even Christian Leaders blamed the recent tornados in the U.S. on the sins of their people.

A lot of Christians would see those "leaders" the same way most Muslims see the random crazy cleric as a Muslim leader. Then again, maybe I shouldn't say that here since we've had members proclaim some kind of admiration for known extremists before...

[Independent]

There was one explanation given by some scholar as to why atheists choose to reject the idea of a Creator.

He said that by rejecting a Creator, they psychologically let them themselves off the hook. Then they don't have to be accountable for their actions. It eases their conscience and they feel they can do as they wish without anyone to answer for.

What do you think of this explanation?

This is daft. He has zero insight into atheist/agnostic thinking and can't be bothered to try.

It's not some kind of calculation just to get yourself off the hook. You either believe or you don't. I can't help myself from not believing in any organised religion I've been exposed to. If I live in a stricter society, I'd probably lie and say I was a believer. I'll bet there are any number of people in Muslim countries who do exactly that, for the sake of an easier life. I don't blame them.

From what I have seen I am not convinced that religious followers are any better morally than agnostics or atheists. They are certainly differently moral - there are things which are forbidden by Islam which are ok in Christianity, and things that are disapproved of by Christianity which are ok by secular people.

But much of the basic stuff is the same the world over. No killing, no stealing etc.

I don't think that 'no religion' leads automatically to 'uncontrolled self interest' and I think the evidence backs me. (You could also read 'The Roads to Freedom' by Jean Paul Sartre, which portrays a character for whom atheism seems to lead to even greater moral angst and pressure. This character has no God to tell him what to do. Instead of freeing him to do what he wants he finds making moral judgements even harder, because he has to work it out each time for himself.)

I agree that sometimes poor communities are more vulnerable. Sometimes natural disasters are not always punishments. We don't always know the reasons behind the actions of the Divine Creator.

In almost every area, poor countries suffer the most from natural disasters and disease. I know theologians have come up with arguments to explain that, but I don't agree.

One day there will be a big earthquake in San Francisco. Quite possibly it will be very soon. Is that divine judgement, or is it because the city sits on the San Andreas fault? Again, there is a famous book by another Frenchman, Voltaire, called 'Candide' which talks about the catastrophic 1755 Lisbon earthquake and satirises this kind of divine fatalism.

[Mustafa2012]

Exactly, so leave it that way. Don't try and speak for god by saying such and such disaster was obviously a punishment for that nation. It's not right.

A lot of Christians would see those "leaders" the same way most Muslims see the random crazy cleric as a Muslim leader. Then again, maybe I shouldn't say that here since we've had members proclaim some kind of admiration for known extremists before...

Firstly, I did not say that the meteorite was obviously a punishment for any nation. Please go back and read my first post on this thread.

I think you should read carefully before replying to people's posts.

Natural disasters have been mentioned in many places in The Qur'an as a type of punishment for former nations for their transgression and disbelief. Those are not my words. They are the words of Allaah :swt1:. If something has been mentioned in The Qur'an then part of the Muslim's belief is to accept it without questioning it.

If today, we see a country committing oppression and supporting other countries in committing oppression and then a natural disaster hits them, we could be excused for assuming that the natural disaster is a type of Divine Punishment for the oppression they are causing other people. This is based on what we've learnt in The Qur'aan.

If however there are other nations that are not known to commit oppression but are struck with a natural disaster, then it would not be fair to assume they are being punished. If there is no known explanation, then we cannot speculate. Nowhere did I say that natural disasters that affect poor people are Divine punishments.

As for what the Christian leaders say, it doesn't matter what most people think of them. If their sayings are in line with what we believe then we do not consider them to be random crazy clerics.

[Mustafa2012]

This is daft. He has zero insight into atheist/agnostic thinking and can't be bothered to try.

It's not some kind of calculation just to get yourself off the hook. You either believe or you don't. I can't help myself from not believing in any organised religion I've been exposed to. If I live in a stricter society, I'd probably lie and say I was a believer. I'll bet there are any number of people in Muslim countries who do exactly that, for the sake of an easier life. I don't blame them.

From what I have seen I am not convinced that religious followers are any better morally than agnostics or atheists. They are certainly differently moral - there are things which are forbidden by Islam which are ok in Christianity, and things that are disapproved of by Christianity which are ok by secular people.

But much of the basic stuff is the same the world over. No killing, no stealing etc.

I don't think that 'no religion' leads automatically to 'uncontrolled self interest' and I think the evidence backs me. (You could also read 'The Roads to Freedom' by Jean Paul Sartre, which portrays a character for whom atheism seems to lead to even greater moral angst and pressure. This character has no God to tell him what to do. Instead of freeing him to do what he wants he finds making moral judgements even harder, because he has to work it out each time for himself.)


In almost every area, poor countries suffer the most from natural disasters and disease. I know theologians have come up with arguments to explain that, but I don't agree.

One day there will be a big earthquake in San Francisco. Quite possibly it will be very soon. Is that divine judgement, or is it because the city sits on the San Andreas fault? Again, there is a famous book by another Frenchman, Voltaire, called 'Candide' which talks about the catastrophic 1755 Lisbon earthquake and satirises this kind of divine fatalism.

There probably are some people who outwardly act as Muslims but inwardly believe something else. They are referred to as hypocrites. Maybe they do that to avoid the pressure of society more than anything. But they are the minority.

From what I have seen I am not convinced that religious followers are any better morally than agnostics or atheists.

I disagree here. You might think I'm biased here but I've been around people of many different backgrounds and faiths and for me Muslims stand out morally. They are not perfect by any means but the difference with them is that they have a sense of awareness of God's laws and try to correct themselves regularly. This is more amongst the practising community. It is less among non practising Muslims but nevertheless even many of this category still have great respect for religion even if they do not lead a religious life.

Yes, most religions have the same themes but when it comes to the details they differ greatly.

Like for e.g. The Concept of The Creator, who He is, His Attributes. There is a big difference on this topic among different religions. I feel the Muslim belief offers the clearest picture as to who The Creator is and what the boundaries are in discussing His essence.

Also re: The Afterlife. There is a big difference in this area. In the Muslim belief, there is complete justice offered in The Next Life. Whatever good you did in this life, will be multiplied 10-600 times. Any evil will be recompensed just 1 time. The Mercy of Allaah will be 99 times greater on Judgement Day than all of the mercy shown in this lifetime etc.

Then there's Paradise and The Hellfire - Paradise is a very strong motivator to do good. The promise of eternal peace, happiness and relaxation. It is enough as a motivator to make change people for the better. Similarly The Hellfire is strong deterrent for those who commit evil and reject the signs of Allaah in this lifetime. Just the thought of it, is enough to prevent people from living a life of sin.

Then there's dealings with people - What rights people have against each other. Islam has a whole system for this. No other religion offers a complete system. Yes I'll admit, Muslims are human and are far from the ideal picture but at least there's a systematic framework to follow. No other religion offers such a detailed system.

These are just a few points.

I cannot explain why natural disasters affect poor people. In such cases we are required to just accept it as being The Divine Will at work. He does whatever He wills without having to give us an explanation for everything.

[Independent]

I cannot explain why natural disasters affect poor people. In such cases we are required to just accept it as being The Divine Will at work. He does whatever He wills without having to give us an explanation for everything.

I understand why you say this and I respect your point of view. However, for me, this is not consistent with the much repeated claim that Islam is a 'rational' religion - there are limits to it - because this is not capable of being rationalised. (You can make the same objection to Christianity, I'm not singling out Islam here.)

At the core of Islam, as with Christianity, is a leap of faith - not rationality - which permits you to stop asking dumb questions like mine.

[Mustafa2012]

I understand why you say this and I respect your point of view. However, for me, this is not consistent with the much repeated claim that Islam is a 'rational' religion - there are limits to it - because this is not capable of being rationalised. (You can make the same objection to Christianity, I'm not singling out Islam here.)

At the core of Islam, as with Christianity, is a leap of faith - not rationality - which permits you to stop asking dumb questions like mine.

It is still a very rational religion, more than any other I know of.

Whatever cannot be explained by normal secular rational thinking usually has an explanation in Islam from a religious, spiritual point of view.

Just because Islam doesn't offer an answer for every single thing in life, that doesn't mean it is not rational. There is still rationality behind most of what we are taught in Islam.

But there will always be some things that mankind will not know and there is some wisdom behind it. There are some things The Creator wanted to keep to Himself like for e.g. the secret of life and many other things.

Chances are if we knew everything there is to know, we would probably misuse that knowledge and use it to cause even more problems than there already are.

However yes, there are some areas which we do not have answers for. In these cases we are required to accept it and believe that there is some divine wisdom behind it which we cannot understand.

I also agree that at the core of Islam and Christianity is a leap of faith however it can be based on rationality. It can be based on research and comparison of what each has to offer.

Then of course the person has to make a leap of faith or a decision but again the decision is not always made on blind faith.

Many people choose a particular religion after having studied some of the most popular religions and weighing the pros and cons of each one.

Islam offers people a way to make sense of this life and what happens after we die. It offers answers to questions that secular systems cannot offer.

As one companion of The Prophet Rab'i bin Amir said when he was sent to a Persian leader,

"Allah (the Almighty) has sent us so that we may liberate fellow human beings from subservience to other fellow human beings and bring them to obedience to the One True God. We are here to take them from the narrowness of the world to it's spaciousness. Our aim is to free them of the persecution perpetrated against them by other religions. We want to bless them with the justice and equity of Islam."