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Al-Warraq
02-22-2013, 06:41 PM


There is no true identity for man without religion. Actually, what is identity? All the things humans attach themselves to such as nation, country or tribe etc.., are all superficial. True identity lies in the deep connections and attachments. We all know that those attachments are shallow and there is a deeper one. We know that the nation or family name doesn't change much. If we were in a different country we would still be us, and if our name or family name is different nothing real has changed. A person his name is John for example, can't he be Richard, George or Omar? It's only a change of letters and their arrangement. Those are the information in your Identity Card. Nothing in your ID card can determine your identity more than religion, because it is a connection with the deep and constant, at least you view it this way.

Thus, lack of religion makes a person lacks true identity, except those attachments which aren't deep and not specific to the individual himself, (you know things from their relationship with yourself, and you know yourself from your relationship with God).

That's why who strictly adheres to those shallow attachments is called a fanatic. Extreme attachment to a nation is called chauvinism or Nazism, extreme loyalty to skin color and race is called racism, and extreme attachment to a certain sect is called sectarianism. All those images are ugly and despised, and all can be destroyed by logic and doesn't stand up for criticism. There is no real difference between being an Asian, European or African, being black or white, and being German, French, Indian or Chinese.

What is the difference that can really differentiate? Nothing can clearly differentiate more than religion. The choice between good and evil is the clear difference, this choice is the true identity. Who has lost his religion has lost his identity. There is no real value for the ID card except where it's needed, it's more valuable to the government employee than it is for its owner.

One of the signs of the superficiality of the common identity attachments is that they attach to the close blood relationship, the new nation or new home country. There is no value for the old home or the old blood relationship, this is a proof of superficiality.

Atheism is a true lie. Even the atheist deep down is attached to his old religion. Israel is an evidence for that, it's a secular government and many of its leaders are atheists, and yet they came to serve what they call a national project, while it's a religious one.

Emmanuel Kant assures that identity is built on the basis of our relationship with others. But he didn't clarify its mechanism. Religion, however, organizes one's relationship with others, which means that religion is the basis of identity not others.

Identity is the answer to the deep question: who am I and why do I exist? When one says: I'm a slave to God for the rest of my life, here identity is accomplished. True identity is found in slavery to God, it can't be changed by the change of one's home country or any other attachment, because it's deeper than all of them. One's home might change, so is one's language and customs, but religion doesn't change except by free choice. All the other information required for identity are unnecessary, thus identity is reached when slavery to God is reached, {I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me} the Quran. All other identities had been acquired through culture, and true identity is discovered by an internal motivation and from what one has consciously chose from his/her religion, not from all one knew about religion without choice. True identity isn't reached by an outer pressure or an external motivation, the person has searched and found that s/he is a slave to God. Here one has stopped and became a person with identity.


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Karl
02-23-2013, 03:12 AM
I disagree with everything you wrote. Having loyalty to only one's own race is neither superficial, nor "racist". If one puts great emphasis on loyaly exclusively to clan that is NOT of superficial importance. I have absolutely no loyalty to any other race, I am detached to them in every way, but that doesn't render me as "racist". "Racism" correctly means the OPPRESSION of different races, but mere loyalty to one's own race is most certainly NOT racism! I am fiercely opposed to miscegenation and passionately believe in racial purity, that still doesn't define me a "racist". And it is also utterly ludicrous to say there is no difference between an African, Asian and a European. There is a STRIKING difference between them so I don't know what you are talking about. The difference is not only in skin colour but in entire differences in morphology and size too. If something is basically the "same" then it would LOOK the same, which is clearly not the case between different races.
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Al-Warraq
03-25-2013, 04:09 PM
I disagree with everything you wrote. Having loyalty to only one's own race is neither superficial, nor "racist". If one puts great emphasis on loyaly exclusively to clan that is NOT of superficial importance. I have absolutely no loyalty to any other race, I am detached to them in every way, but that doesn't render me as "racist".
Loyalty to one's race isn't superficial, but according to what's deeper than it it is superficial. Your loyalty to your race or clan doesn't solve all your problems and doesn't answer your ontological questions as a human being. It solves the problem of your place in the community outside yourself. While religion doesn't only relate to your social position, but gets into yourself and conscience, and you see the whole universe through it. Your loyalty to your race or clan doesn't do that. Being German or American has nothing to with who created you and where are you heading to? Is there anything after death? That doesn't concern nationalism, but it's there in religion. Therefore religion is deeper than nation and race, because each covers a limited area. Loyalty to one's country covers a geographical area, and loyalty to one's race covers a racial area, while religion covers all life and what's after life. Religion, then, is the most inclusive and wide-ranging. Therefore, it's the person's true identity.

Since atheism presents its views on the existence of man and their future and the origin of life, then it's an identity like any other religion. Except that it's opposite to the known religion because it negates all what religion proves, and proves all what religion negates.

"Racism" correctly means the OPPRESSION of different races, but mere loyalty to one's own race is most certainly NOT racism! I am fiercely opposed to miscegenation and passionately believe in racial purity, that still doesn't define me a "racist".

Excuse me, this is a false view. Because your preference for one thing among many means that the others are worse. Preference produces indirect racism. Viewing all races equally and without defending one specifically is what respecting all races mean. Preferring one race and boasting about it means looking down upon the rest, it leads to this result whether we like it or not. Thus, who attacks all the Jewish people is a racist, and also who glorifies all the Jewish Semites is a racist! Because he sees no race except this one to talk about as if the others are worthless. And also as if criticizing this race is a crime while criticizing other races isn’t.

Who defends and glorifies only one race is a racist. The non racist is who respects all races and defends them, as a result of respecting all peoples, and thus every human being. So, the committees of fighting Antisemitism, for instance, are racial committees.

Islam forbade genealogical pride, i.e. it forbade positive racism let alone negative racism. And thus we see the greatness of Islam rising above the highest moral level reached by humanity in this field, which allows to prefer one race over all else without offending them as you said. Islam forbade even the preference of one race even if the person was belonging to that race. That's a very elevated moral level humanity didn't reach even at the peak of civilization. And that's regardless of the fact that muslims don't apply such a value, for Islam is for the whole of humanity not only the so-called Muslims. Islam isn't the Muslims.

And it is also utterly ludicrous to say there is no difference between an African, Asian and a European. There is a STRIKING difference between them so I don't know what you are talking about. The difference is not only in skin colour but in entire differences in morphology and size too. If something is basically the "same" then it would LOOK the same, which is clearly not the case between different races.
Just now you were saying that you're not a racist and you only defend your race, and now you assure that there are genuine and basic differences among races, some are negative differences and others are positive, and your race is -no doubt- on the positive side, and the African race is negative! This is racism.

You say there are differences among races, and of course you mean physical differences, but from the inside man is man. Also, inside your own race aren't there differences? Even in size and color? Are the northern Europeans the same as western Europeans in their color and mien? Of course not. Is the blue-eyed Saxon the same as the green-eyed Latin? Of course not, and so on till we find differences between you and your brother. Thus there is no logical foundation for racism.

Does psychology apply to one race without the others? Of course not, then basically all people are the same in their souls and selves, which are more important that their looks and colors. When you talk to someone you don't talk to their color, height or hair type, you talk to their self.

There are differences imposed by the environment, the white European will have a darker skin if he lived in middle of Africa, has his self changed along with his color? Of course not. Then we shouldn't judge man from the outside, because those material things don’t represent them as does the human self which has common basis in all people.
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Karl
03-25-2013, 10:51 PM
Where do you get these generalisations? The pagans had slaves, Jews had slaves, Christians had slaves and Muslims had slaves so I don't know where you got all this racial equality stuff from? Muhammad (PBUH) had black slaves. How can you have slaves and they be equal to the owners? When the Muslims conquered the White Christians in Jerusalem during the Crusades, many Whites were enslaved. Even in the Quran it says "the Jews are a cursed race". I think you are getting Islam mixed up with Marxism and the United Nations "The Universal declaration of Human Rights".
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Berries'forest
03-25-2013, 11:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
Where do you get these generalisations? The pagans had slaves, Jews had slaves, Christians had slaves and Muslims had slaves so I don't know where you got all this racial equality stuff from? Muhammad (PBUH) had black slaves. How can you have slaves and they be equal to the owners? When the Muslims conquered the White Christians in Jerusalem during the Crusades, many Whites were enslaved. Even in the Quran it says "the Jews are a cursed race". I think you are getting Islam mixed up with Marxism and the United Nations "The Universal declaration of Human Rights".
You really need to get load of yourself. Seriously I suggest you start on fixing that superiority complex you seem to be suffering from before projecting your own beliefs on Islam. Good luck with that.
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Muhammad
03-25-2013, 11:13 PM
:salamext: Karl,

Please read the following posts:

format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
Asalaamu Alaikum,

You have jahiliyah in you, which is an extremely serious problem. You really need to cleanse your heart by learning more about Islam, the life of the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and by reading the Qur'an.

You know this verse was revealed after someone made a racial insult towards Bilal(ra);

Surah Hujurat 49:13:
"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."


Wahidi's tafsir - Surah Hujurat 49:13:
"(O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female…) [49:13]. Said Ibn 'Abbas: "This was revealed about Thabit ibn Qays when he made a remark about the man who did not make room for him to sit: 'What, the son of so-and-so [referring to his mother]'. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'Who mentioned that woman?' Thabit stood up and said: 'I did, O Messenger of Allah!' The Messenger said to him: 'Look at the faces of those present'. And when he looked, he asked him: 'What do you see?' He said: 'I see white, red and black people'. The Prophet said: 'Well, you are not better than any of them unless it be through [the good practice of] religion and God-fearingness'. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse'. Muqatil said: "On the day Mecca was conquered, the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, ordered Bilal to climb on the roof of the Ka'bah and perform the call to prayer. 'Attab ibn Asid commented on this: 'Praise be to Allah, that Allah has taken my father to Him and made that he did not see this day'. Al-Harith ibn Hisham said: 'Did Muhammad not find any other caller to prayer except this black raven?' Suhayl ibn 'Amr said: 'Allah willing, he will change him'. Abu Sufyan, on the other hand, said: 'I am not going to make any comment; I am afraid that the Lord of heaven will divulge what I say!' Gabriel, peace be upon him, went to the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and informed him about what they said. The Prophet summoned them and asked them about what they said and they admitted it. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse warning them against boasting about their lineages and abundance of wealth and against looking down on the poor'. Abu Hassan al-Muzakki informed us> Harun ibn Muhammad al-Istrabadhi> Abu Muhammad Ishaq ibn Muhammad al-Khuza'i> Abu'l-Walid al-Azraqi> his grandfather> 'Abd al-Jabbar ibn al-Ward al-Makki> Ibn Abi Mulaykah who said: "On the day Mecca was conquered, Bilal climbed on the roof of the Ka'bah and performed the call to prayer. One person said: 'O servants of Allah! How can this black slave be allowed to perform the call to prayer on top of the Ka'bah?' Another man said: 'If Allah is displeased, He will change him."



Watch this lecture, full of wisdom;



Also take a read of this;

1. The Prophet said: 'Each Prophet before me had been sent to his specific people, but I was sent to every nation, whether red or black (wa buithtu ila kulli ahmara wa aswada)'. [an-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, 5/6:6-7; Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 1:311]

2. The Prophet also said: 'Praise be to Allah, there is only one book of Allah, and among you the believers are nations, red, white and black (wa fikum al-ahmar wa fikum al-abyad wa fikum al-aswad)' [Ibn Qayyim, Awn al-Mabud, 3:59-60]

3. On one occassion the Prophet said to Abu Dharr: 'Take note that you are not better than thered or black nations except to the extent that you exceed them in piety (taqwa)' [Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 5:206]

Abu Hurairah reported that "A black woman used to clean the mosque and she died. The Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be on him, asked about her and they said, she is dead. He said, "Why did you not inform me about her; lead me to her grave." So he came to her grave and offered prayers on it".4 (B. 8 : 72.)

4. Furthermore, the Prophet said: 'People are as equal as the teeth of a comb, they are differentiated only by piety' [Ibn Hajar, Fath al Bari, 1:658-659, 3:204-205]

5. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 70, Number 555:
"Narrated By 'Ata bin Abi Rabah : Ibn 'Abbas said to me, "Shall I show you a woman of the people of Paradise?" I said, "Yes." He said, "This black lady came to the Prophet and said, 'I get attacks of epilepsy and my body becomes uncovered; please invoke Allah for me.' The Prophet said (to her), 'If you wish, be patient and you will have (enter) Paradise; and if you wish, I will invoke Allah to cure you.' She said, 'I will remain patient,' and added, 'but I become uncovered, so please invoke Allah for me that I may not become uncovered.' So he invoked Allah for her."


6. Surah Hujurat 49


"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)."


7. Muhammad visited a black person who was sick, took charge of his washing, shrouding and burial-

Wahidi's tafsir - Suran Hujurat 49


"Allah, exalted is He, then revealed this verse (O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female)". Yazid ibn Shajarah said: "One day, the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, passed by some of the marketplaces of Medina and saw a black slave standing while his seller was crying: 'This is for sale for whoever wants to offer more!' The slave kept repeating: 'I have a condition for whoever wants to buy me'. He was asked: 'What is your condition?' He said: 'He should not stop me from performing the five prescribed prayers behind the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace'. A man bought him on this condition. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, saw him at each prescribed prayer until he failed to see him one day. He asked his owner: 'Where is the slave boy?' He said: 'He has fever, O Messenger of Allah!' The Prophet said to his Companions: 'Let us go and visit him'. They went and visited him. After a few days, the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, asked his owner: 'How is the slave boy?' The man said: 'O Messenger of Allah, the boy's lips have turned dark'. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, went and entered in on the boy. He found him feverish and he died in that state. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, took charge of his washing, shrouding and burial. His Companions were horrified and became greatly disturbed. The Emigrants said: 'We have left our homes, wealth and family, but none of us has seen in his life, sickness or death what this slave boy has'. The Helpers said: 'We have received him in our homes, helped him and consoled him with our riches but he preferred this Abyssinian slave over us'. Allah, glorious and majestic is He, then revealed this verse (O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female), i.e. you are the children of one father and one mother, and He showed them the merit of God-fearingness by His words (Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah…)".

8. "The prophet, peace be upon him, said: "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any "superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves." (Hafiz Ibn Hibban reported in al-Sahih 11 / 203 / 4862 , via his isnad, from Fadalah ibn Ubayd & Baihaqi. Also Narrated By: Abu Nadra In: Musnad ‘Abd Allah Ibn Al-Mubarak - #239 - Source).

9. "Narrated Uqbah Bin Aamir: The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: These lineages of yours do not make you superior to anyone. You are all sons of Adam. No one has superiority over another except in piety and consciousness. It is sufficient shame for one to be foul, evil, or stingy." (Declared Hasan By Sheikh Arna'oot In Musnad Ahmad, #17351 - Source & #17482 Source, & Sheikh Arna'oot's Tahqeeq - Footnote 3 Of #17313 - Source. Also Declared Sahih By Sheikh Albani In: Sahih At-Targhib, #2962 - Source And Declared Sahih In Silsila As-Sahiha - Volume 3, #1038 - Source. Also Found In: At-Tabarani's Mujam Al-Kabir, #14252 - Source).

10. "Abu Malik al-Ash'ari narrated Allah's Messenger (SAW) who said: Among my people there are four characteristics belonging to pre-Islamic time of ignorance which they do not abandon: boasting of high rank, reviling other peoples' genealogies, seeking rain by stars, and walling. He also said: If the wailing woman does not repent before she dies, she'll be made to stand on the Day of Resurrection wearing a garment of pitch and a chemise of mange." (Sahih Muslim, #934).

11. 'Imran b. Husain reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A brother of yours has died; so stand up and offer prayer for him, i.e. Negus (who was the Abassinian black king). And in the Hadith transmitted by Zubair (the words are): "Your brother."

12. Feel free to ask for narrations; His closest companian was a former black slave (Bilal(ra)), his adopted son Zaid(ra) and his nanny Umm Ayman, a woman he had incredible respect for, was also black.

13. "The Prophet (saws) once reprimanded Abu Dharr for derisively calling Bilal, 'son of a black woman', then he went on to say, "Look! Surely you are not better than a brown man nor a black man except by fearing Allah more than them." (Declared Sahih By Sheikh Albani - Source, here and Source, here and here).

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow
Hatred based upon race is a hatred based upon ignorance. There is only one race the Human Race. We are all part of it and like all people we have individual differences, yet we are still the same and if we go back, not very far in time, we will discover we all have the same ancestors. Hatred of anything usually comes from not understanding it. To over come hatred of another race, look at each person as an individual not as a race. People are not a race, they are individuals. Learn to see each person based upon that person's actions, do not assume the stereotypical views of a race apply to every person of the race. It may surprise you to discover that nobody actually fits the criteria of the stereotype.

If the first thing you notice about a person is the color of their skin, it only means you have good eyesight, but you may have very poor vision Pray that Allaah(swt) will grant you the ability to SEE people not just see them. When you meet some one look at his heart not his skin, we are all born with the same color heart. We all have the same color blood flowing through our veins, we all breathe the same air. Do you realize that when you breathe the air you breath in was at one time in a black man's lungs.

This world is much too small to dislike anyone because of a small difference like color. In doing so it is possible you have eliminated a person, who could become your closest earthly friend, from entering your life.

Did you know if you close your eyes, all people look alike? Some of the blindest people have the best sight. Use your heart and brain to see people, not your eyes.

format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif


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Karl
03-25-2013, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Berries'forest
You really need to get load of yourself. Seriously I suggest you start on fixing that superiority complex you seem to be suffering from before projecting your own beliefs on Islam. Good luck with that.
I believe all life has the same right to live. I believe I am not superior to a microbe. I am just a collection of microbes working in harmony. All living creatures are equal under God. I consider myself no better than a bug crawling across the floor so how can I have a superiority complex?
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Berries'forest
03-26-2013, 01:15 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
beliefs on Islam. Good luck with that. I believe all life has the same right to live. I believe I am not superior to a microbe. I am just a collection of microbes working in harmony. All living creatures are equal under God. I consider myself no better than a bug crawling across the floor so how can I have a superiority complex?
Considering yourself no better than a bug, but better than someone who doesn't belong to your race. You also said that loyalty to your rave is not a bad thing. Is that also appropriate if your race were commiting evil crimes against others?. You'd go along with them even though you'd know it's wrong just because of your loyalty to your race. You put people into layers and then say you don't have a superiority complex, how's that?.
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Karl
03-26-2013, 02:14 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Berries'forest
Considering yourself no better than a bug, but better than someone who doesn't belong to your race. You also said that loyalty to your rave is not a bad thing. Is that also appropriate if your race were commiting evil crimes against others?. You'd go along with them even though you'd know it's wrong just because of your loyalty to your race. You put people into layers and then say you don't have a superiority complex, how's that?.
I think it's more a situation of people like you having INFERIORITY complexes rather than it being me with a "superiority complex". That's why you are so supersensitive to this issue. I am not contradicting myself by saying that I consider myself no better than a bug. When did I ever say that I was "better" than those who are not of my own race? Just because I said I have no loyalty to any other race doesn't mean to say that I think it's ok for my own race to commit atrocities against them.
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ardianto
03-26-2013, 12:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
And it is also utterly ludicrous to say there is no difference between an African, Asian and a European. There is a STRIKING difference between them so I don't know what you are talking about. The difference is not only in skin colour but in entire differences in morphology and size too. If something is basically the "same" then it would LOOK the same, which is clearly not the case between different races.
When I was teen I close enough with a guy who was born in Congo, lost his family in war, then adopted by an Indonesian officer in peace keeping force and live in my place since he was toddler.

His black skin made him easy to recognize. But the rest, I didn't feel he was different than other people in my place.
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Berries'forest
03-26-2013, 12:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
I think it's more a situation of people like you having INFERIORITY complexes rather than it being me with a "superiority complex". That's why you are so supersensitive to this issue.
Yeah okay if you say so. I don't need to prove to you that you're the one here who has a problem and not me. Your loyalty should only be to Allah and no one else. Where did you get that concept of loyalty to one's race from any way?. You can't see that you are indeed prejudiced I earlier told you atleast make a disticntion between your self-inflicted prejudice and bias and Islam.

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
I am not contradicting myself by saying that I consider myself no better than a bug. When did I ever say that I was "better" than those who are not of my own race? Just because I said I have no loyalty to any other race doesn't mean to say that I think it's ok for my own race to commit atrocities against them.
Then you should redefine the concept of loyalty before you proclaim your loyalty to anything in this world. You do know that it entails withstanding and keeping faithfull to whom you are loyal at all times and full support of their decision. Maybe you should've been more precise by saying that your loyalty should be a circumstantial one and not an absolute one. If you don't want people thinking you are racist you should pat more effort into clearing up you position.
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Berries'forest
03-26-2013, 01:02 PM
Oh and by the way. Poisoning the well fallacy you're using here isn't working. Please resort to something else. Just admit that it's an emotional standing you personally have that isn't rational by any means. No one here disagreed that there are detectable differences between people of different races. We are disagree with you on the concept of loyalty. Your loyalty should be to only God and His messenger not your race.
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Karl
03-28-2013, 10:04 PM
In Islam God is greatest and loyalty to family and kith and kin. So how can that be racist? As kin will be not of a different race. Birds of a feather flock together, the social experiments of multi culturism are not working out well, we must admit that racial tensions are building up in Europe and the USA. The Zionist New World Order is hard at work promoting miscegenation and homosexuality through it's media leviathan. Have "Muslims" here bought into this depraved culture? If you say I am a racist or a Nazi I will know you have.
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ccc
03-29-2013, 11:20 PM
identity is a modern western concept. If you want an answer, identity is not to be you, because nobody finds identity in himself, it needs relation even to think about identity. Is the same difference between individual and person, between the muslim god and Christian God
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tearose
03-31-2013, 08:20 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
The pagans had slaves, Jews had slaves, Christians had slaves and Muslims had slaves so I don't know where you got all this racial equality stuff from? Muhammad (PBUH) had black slaves.
The Muslims at the time of our Prophet:saws: also had Arab slaves, Romans, etc. Slavery in Islam has nothing to do with race.

Also, although you must maintain ties with your family, your family could be multiethnic. If you marry a person from a different tribe, your spouse and their family will be of that tribe, and your children will be mixed.

Finally, it is very dangerous to advocate loyalty to one's race. What if someone feels that way their whole life, then one day there is a war against the Muslims, and some of the people fighting against them are from the same tribe. How do they know they will be strong enough to give up the loyalty to those people? Furthermore, it is forbidden to take non-believers as close friends and allies. So you cannot be loyal to them just because they are from the same ethnic group anyway.
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truthseeker63
03-31-2013, 08:54 AM
WS Karl you do know that Racial Purity is a Myth right ? Can you trace you're Ancestry a Pure Family Tree no Mixed Race Ancestry if you cannot what is the point of saying it is wrong to marry people of diffrent races ? One reason why I converted/reverted to Islam is because I thought Islam doesn't care about Racial Purity or Ancestry am I wrong ? I look White European American but I am 1/64th American Indian Native so am I mixed race ? According to White Supremacists/Neo Nazis/Skinheads Im not White Im mixed and an American Indian because it is in my Ancestry. My point is that I don't care about Racial Purity only Racists do I believe we are all One Race the Human Race Humanity is One Family We Humans all have a Common Ancestry Science and Evolution agrees. If People want to marry people of their own skin color/race thats ok by me but don't try to stop others from marrying people of other cultures please tell me what you think of my views and opinions anymore here thank you. Please look at these links below.

TIM: I identify as white. But there’s no way to tell whether a third of my lineage could be black. If I look white and I self-identify as white, I’m white. Similarly if someone who’s black, 85% of all blacks in the US have European ancestry. Someone who comes in but who identifies as black or who is seen by the test-givers as black will be classified as black. You don’t know what percentage of their lineage is European or vice versa. So these categories have never been delineated in scientific terms where you can say, “This is Asian, this is black, this is white, and then you compare the scores.” Until that can be done, to sit here and have this conversation about nature/nurture or to have a conversation about racial difference as opposed to individual difference, which I’m in total agreement with the caller on that, is I think an artificial debate.

TIM: That is not true for any other species on the planet. The other species tend to differ by five times, ten times, twenty times more between groups than within the groups. So we do not meet the test as human beings for subspecies or for races. Yes, there are population groupings, they relate to the primary point of origin or dispersal or development. But they do not break down as black, white, Asian, mestizo or indigenous American or whatever categories we might want to construct. Those categories change over time. If it were a biological concept, how would it have been possible for one in Alabama under segregation to be black if you had one eighth black blood but in Mississippi one drop of black blood and in South Carolina one quarter black blood? How could it be biological if we could not even and still cannot agree on what it is that makes you black, what it is that makes you white, what it is that makes you Asian? How much black blood does it take to cancel out all the white blood? How much white blood does it take to cancel out all the Asian blood and make you white? Whether we know how to self-identify, of course we do. We live in a society where race has been given meaning, but I’m not in touch with my genotype. I am not in touch with my DNA. I don’t converse with it on a daily basis to know that I’m being instructed by the proteins in my system and the genetic coding on my chromosomes to consider myself white. I consider myself white because I’m accepted and received and treated as white. Therefore I experience myself as white. It’s a social distinction.

http://www.timwise.org/2005/05/trans...-and-tim-wise/

An Act to Preserve Racial Integrity from the Year 1924.

1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia, That the State Registrar
of Vital Statistics may as soon as practicable after the taking effect of this
act, prepare a form whereon the racial composition of any individual, as
Caucasian, negro, Mongolian, American Indian, Asiatic Indian, Malay, or any
mixture thereof, or any other non-Caucasic strains, and if there be any mixture,
then the racial composition of the parents and other ancestors, in so far as
ascertainable, so as to show in what generation such mixture occurred, may be
certified by such individual, which form shall be known as a registration
certificate.

5. It shall hereafter be unlawful for any white person in this State to marry
any save a white person, or a person with no other admixture of blood than white
and American Indian. For the purpose of this act, the term "white person" shall
apply only to the person who has no trace whatsoever of any blood other than
Caucasian; but persons who have one-sixteenth or less of the blood of the
American Indian and have no other non-Caucasic blood shall be deemed to be white
persons. All laws heretofore passed and now in effect regarding the
intermarriage of white and colored persons shall apply to marriages prohibited
by this act.

http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/encoun...ns/racial.html


GOD COMMANDS RACIAL SEGREGATION


by

Pastor Bertrand L. Comparet,A.B.,
J.D.


But the
Hebrew word mistranslated "*******" is the word "MAMZER": It means a MIXTURE, A
HALF-BREED OR MONGREL. It has nothing to do with whether a child's parents were
married, but it refers to THE FORBIDDEN INTERMIXTURE OF RACES. THAT IS WHY THE
PENALTY EXTENDS FOR TEN GENERATIONS: and it shows how seriously God treats this
sin. It is true that the mulatto child is not to blame for his parents' sins:
BUT HE IS STILL A MULATTO. The first generation would be a half-breed; the
second would have at least a quarter of the black blood; the third at least 1/8;
the fourth 1/16; and so on. IN THE TENTH GENERATION, THE NEGRO BLOOD MAY BE AS
SMALL AS ONE PART IN 1,024, YET GOD HIMSELF SAYS THAT THIS IS TOO MUCH TO BE
ALLOWED TO "ENTER INTO THE CONGREGATION OF THE LORD."

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTru...ret/comp8.html
Reply

Karl
03-31-2013, 09:00 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by ccc
identity is a modern western concept. If you want an answer, identity is not to be you, because nobody finds identity in himself, it needs relation even to think about identity. Is the same difference between individual and person, between the muslim god and Christian God
I suppose modern identity would be a genetic analysis of the given person as no one will have the same genetic code. As it is written in revelations, people will be identified by numbers.
The West is working on this as part of it's New World Order policy. India is going to spend billions cataloging it's population. The System has to know what it is oppressing.
Reply

Karl
04-03-2013, 02:50 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by truthseeker63
WS Karl you do know that Racial Purity is a Myth right ? Can you trace you're Ancestry a Pure Family Tree no Mixed Race Ancestry if you cannot what is the point of saying it is wrong to marry people of diffrent races ? One reason why I converted/reverted to Islam is because I thought Islam doesn't care about Racial Purity or Ancestry am I wrong ? I look White European American but I am 1/64th American Indian Native so am I mixed race ? According to White Supremacists/Neo Nazis/Skinheads Im not White Im mixed and an American Indian because it is in my Ancestry. My point is that I don't care about Racial Purity only Racists do I believe we are all One Race the Human Race Humanity is One Family We Humans all have a Common Ancestry Science and Evolution agrees. If People want to marry people of their own skin color/race thats ok by me but don't try to stop others from marrying people of other cultures please tell me what you think of my views and opinions anymore here thank you. Please look at these links below.

TIM: I identify as white. But there’s no way to tell whether a third of my lineage could be black. If I look white and I self-identify as white, I’m white. Similarly if someone who’s black, 85% of all blacks in the US have European ancestry. Someone who comes in but who identifies as black or who is seen by the test-givers as black will be classified as black. You don’t know what percentage of their lineage is European or vice versa. So these categories have never been delineated in scientific terms where you can say, “This is Asian, this is black, this is white, and then you compare the scores.” Until that can be done, to sit here and have this conversation about nature/nurture or to have a conversation about racial difference as opposed to individual difference, which I’m in total agreement with the caller on that, is I think an artificial debate.

TIM: That is not true for any other species on the planet. The other species tend to differ by five times, ten times, twenty times more between groups than within the groups. So we do not meet the test as human beings for subspecies or for races. Yes, there are population groupings, they relate to the primary point of origin or dispersal or development. But they do not break down as black, white, Asian, mestizo or indigenous American or whatever categories we might want to construct. Those categories change over time. If it were a biological concept, how would it have been possible for one in Alabama under segregation to be black if you had one eighth black blood but in Mississippi one drop of black blood and in South Carolina one quarter black blood? How could it be biological if we could not even and still cannot agree on what it is that makes you black, what it is that makes you white, what it is that makes you Asian? How much black blood does it take to cancel out all the white blood? How much white blood does it take to cancel out all the Asian blood and make you white? Whether we know how to self-identify, of course we do. We live in a society where race has been given meaning, but I’m not in touch with my genotype. I am not in touch with my DNA. I don’t converse with it on a daily basis to know that I’m being instructed by the proteins in my system and the genetic coding on my chromosomes to consider myself white. I consider myself white because I’m accepted and received and treated as white. Therefore I experience myself as white. It’s a social distinction.

http://www.timwise.org/2005/05/trans...-and-tim-wise/

An Act to Preserve Racial Integrity from the Year 1924.

1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia, That the State Registrar
of Vital Statistics may as soon as practicable after the taking effect of this
act, prepare a form whereon the racial composition of any individual, as
Caucasian, negro, Mongolian, American Indian, Asiatic Indian, Malay, or any
mixture thereof, or any other non-Caucasic strains, and if there be any mixture,
then the racial composition of the parents and other ancestors, in so far as
ascertainable, so as to show in what generation such mixture occurred, may be
certified by such individual, which form shall be known as a registration
certificate.

5. It shall hereafter be unlawful for any white person in this State to marry
any save a white person, or a person with no other admixture of blood than white
and American Indian. For the purpose of this act, the term "white person" shall
apply only to the person who has no trace whatsoever of any blood other than
Caucasian; but persons who have one-sixteenth or less of the blood of the
American Indian and have no other non-Caucasic blood shall be deemed to be white
persons. All laws heretofore passed and now in effect regarding the
intermarriage of white and colored persons shall apply to marriages prohibited
by this act.

http://www2.vcdh.virginia.edu/encoun...ns/racial.html


GOD COMMANDS RACIAL SEGREGATION


by

Pastor Bertrand L. Comparet,A.B.,
J.D.


But the
Hebrew word mistranslated "*******" is the word "MAMZER": It means a MIXTURE, A
HALF-BREED OR MONGREL. It has nothing to do with whether a child's parents were
married, but it refers to THE FORBIDDEN INTERMIXTURE OF RACES. THAT IS WHY THE
PENALTY EXTENDS FOR TEN GENERATIONS: and it shows how seriously God treats this
sin. It is true that the mulatto child is not to blame for his parents' sins:
BUT HE IS STILL A MULATTO. The first generation would be a half-breed; the
second would have at least a quarter of the black blood; the third at least 1/8;
the fourth 1/16; and so on. IN THE TENTH GENERATION, THE NEGRO BLOOD MAY BE AS
SMALL AS ONE PART IN 1,024, YET GOD HIMSELF SAYS THAT THIS IS TOO MUCH TO BE
ALLOWED TO "ENTER INTO THE CONGREGATION OF THE LORD."

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTru...ret/comp8.html

Truthseeker 63, If you don't mind me saying so, you sound very much like a Marxist. Before you reverted to Islam were you a socialist? Sorry but your cliches such as "we are all One Race the Human Race" is absolute nonsense. Saying all hominins are of one race is like saying a condor is the same race as a canary. If hominins were all the same race then why is it that many (but most certainly not all) look so profoundly different? Why do we have totally different sizes and morphologies? Why am I 3 times bigger in size than a South East Asian? Why is my morphology strikingly different? Why is it that my race are at puberty at 8 or 9 and full grown adults at 12 while some other races take TWICE as long to grow up (even though they have plenty of food)? If it is accurate that Adam and Eve existed no one nonetheless has any evidence that there were not MULTIPLE Adams and Eves. That is your right to embrace your monogenist beliefs, but you will never take me away from my overwhelming convincement of POLYgenism. From my own experiences on the topic I have noticed that those who embrace miscegenation are vastly those who have already miscegenated themselves, rather than those who have not. It is very interesting to observe this. I have heard many people claim that the reason for this is because those who have miscegenated suffer from all sorts of inferiority complexes and identity conflicts etc. They feel it secretly as a deficiency (even though they won't admit it) and so they feel the need to bring down those who haven't yet miscegenated. They rationalize and promote miscegenation in the hope that everyone who hasn't yet miscegenated WILL at some point. But it ain't gonna work completely. There will always be those intelligent and head-strong of us who will downright refuse to miscegenate ever.


"Can you trace you're Ancestry a Pure Family Tree no Mixed Race Ancestry?"

Yes, my family has quite thoroughly recorded our racial purity for hundreds of generations. There may have been rare incidents in which we occasionally interbred, but that would have been with very SIMILAR Germanic races, NOT extraneous ones. So I am talking about very similar races here. Never would my family ever DREAM of miscegenating with an extraneous race.

My reasons why I am against miscegenation lies much beyond my revulsion towards miscegenation PER SE. It's not just some empty principle. There are practical and aesthetic reasons behind it too. I am very much against hybridizing with racial traits that are not physically compatible. If I ever DID want to hybridize it would most certainly be with another race that has similar physical characteristics, not DISPARATE ones. My concern is not primarily with skin colour, but rather with MORPHOLOGY and SIZE. Incompatible physiology between parents becomes a tainting of offspring rather than a "blend". It would be aesthetically despicable if the masculine strong mesomorphic and militant features of my race were hybridized with the diminutive and feminine cuteness of some little South East Asian. See where I'm coming from here? The result in the offspring would be a TAINTING rather than a blend because two entirely opposite types of physical traits are being mixed. If I hybridized with a S.E Asian she would lose all her diminutive feminine cuteness in her offspring and conversely I would lose my big hard-featured heavy-structured morphology. I wouldn't want to lose these inherent qualities for anything! I don't want to gracilize and feminize my offpring by mixing with some cute little Asian, and likewise I don't want to see her cute prettiness being tainted by my big build and rustic Germanic physical feaures. I am of a combat race and I want to keep my descendants big, strong and masculine featured forever. We were never made to be small, feminine and cute. Miscegenating these two physical types means that the original physical qualities of the parents would be lost forever and the result would be aesthetically awful. This is NOT purely theoretical. I have SEEN the results of this form of miscegenation in actual life and it absolutely looks terrible, and I think many of the parents realise their abomination as well after they've made the mistake and it's too late. Anyone who has knowlege of animal breeding knows this well. It is truly insane to want to mix a cute little pomeranian with a rottweiler, or a Shetland pony with a Clydesdale horse. Only those who are demented would dream up doing it.


"Humanity is One Family We Humans all have a Common Ancestry Science and Evolution agrees".

There is no evolution in Islam. These are atheist notions with an agenda of cultural imperialism. That's why the United Nations Red Terror embraces this mentality. Its mentality says "well now that everyone understands that there is only one human species/race it's now a matter of you all accepting a ONE SIZE FITS ALL global order which dictates ONE culture and ONE set of rules. Nothing else should be tolerated because we all come from the same family so we should all accept the same cultual restraints". The U.N realises that polygenism and racial isolationism is its true nemesis. Your mentality is precisely how the U.N wants the entire world to think like because they see that as giving them an automatic "license" to foist cultural imperialism on the whole planet.

As a Muslim you should not be believing in evolution. As for "science", the vast majority of it is dominated by the progressive left. I don't believe a lot of today's scientific spin. There is MUCH of it about today (otherwise known as "pseudoscience"), its primary purpose being for POLITICAL reasons rather than for the quest of finding actual truth.


"My point is that I don't care about Racial Purity only Racists do."

If that's what you still believe after all I've been trying to explain to you then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Racism is oppression of another race, that's where it begins and ends. A want for racial purity in itself ISN'T.



"That is not true for any other species on the planet. The other species tend to differ by five times, ten times, twenty times more between groups than within the groups. So we do not meet the test as human beings for subspecies or for races."

This is a commonly claimed misconception. The reason why some claim that there is more biological variety withIN a group than there is between groups is that they have their ideas muddled up to begin with just what those groups ARE. These groups are arbitrarily bundled under the same rubric merely based on skin colour which is just ludicrous. Skin colour is purely superficial, that's where I will agree with you. Just because one is white skinned doesn't mean to say that they should be bundled under the same single group as all others who are white skinned. To do that would be just absurd. Just because Germanics are white doesn't mean to say that all whites are Germanic. I would therefore agree that my race is much more removed sizually and morphologically to some other light skinned races than we would be to some races of sub Saharan Africans! I am white and so is McCully Culken, yet I am much more further removed to him racially than I am to Muhammed Ali because my size and morphology is much closer to Muhammed Ali's than McCully Culken's. That's why if I really really really HAD to miscegenate I would rather choose someone of Ali's big strong masculine looking race than Culken's puny effeminate looking race.


"If People want to marry people of their own skin color/race thats ok by me but don't try to stop others from marrying people of other cultures."

I never said I wanted to "stop" those of your mentality from doing that. I see it as your loss, not mine. Your business, not mine. So no skin off my nose. I WILL however forbid any of my OWN offspring from doing this deplorable act. They have no inclination to do it ANYWAY which is one reason why I am proud of them.
Reply

Aprender
04-03-2013, 05:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
As kin will be not of a different race.
Mine are.

format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
we must admit that racial tensions are building up in Europe and the USA
Disagree. I see a strong dichotomy between the religious and the secular, the rich and the poor. Not so much racial tensions.
Reply

Karl
04-03-2013, 06:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
Disagree. I see a strong dichotomy between the religious and the secular, the rich and the poor. Not so much racial tensions.
That might be true to an extent but more so at government level. But racial tension is certainly prevalent amongst many of the people, particularly the Anglo-American populaton of the non lefty liberal type. Even at government level this is reflected. One only needs to look at the USA's huge effort to keep out the Mexicans and the massive amount of money spent on building a fence along its southern borders. Europe might have become a cultural-Marxist multi-racial dive, but that doesn't mean to say that there aren't many nationalistic people like Anders Breivik about. Where there's one there's plenty more.
Reply

Futuwwa
04-03-2013, 08:01 AM
I don't do identity. I am me.
Reply

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