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Roasted Cashew
04-24-2013, 04:07 PM
So yea, who are the "Children of Israel" mentioned in the following verse:

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

~ The Noble Qur'an Chapter 5, Verse 32...


On a side note...after answering the question above pls also help me with: how do you reply to people who say that this verse doesn't apply to Muslims as it is an order meant for "Children of Israel". Finally, does this "killing a person as if killed a mankind" principle apply to killing Muslims only or every human being...
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IAmZamzam
04-24-2013, 04:20 PM
It refers to the Children of Israel in general, the readers of the Torah and Talmud--but the immediate audience was the Jewish persecutors of the times, as their situation was being compared to the original one. The passage is saying, "The traditional interpretation of Genesis 4 by your elders is correct. And yet still you contemporary Jews who are persecuting my newer messenger just go murdering people like it ain't no thang!" How could it not apply to Muslims too when it's in The Qur'an as the stated correct interpretation of a lesson learned from the progenitors of all humankind, not just the Jews?
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Roasted Cashew
04-24-2013, 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by IAmZamzam
It refers to the Children of Israel in general, the readers of the Torah and Talmud--but the immediate audience was the Jewish persecutors of the times, as their situation was being compared to the original one.
This is what I found on the following website and I quote:

Source: http://corpus.quran.com/concept.jsp?...dren-of-israel

"According to Islamic belief, the twelve tribes of Israel are the descendents of Yaqub (Jacob, also known as Israel), who was the son of Isaac.
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IAmZamzam
04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
That is mutually exclusive neither with what I said nor with the beliefs of the Jews themselves. In fact I believe the book of Genesis closes with a long speech much to that same effect.
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Ahmad H
04-24-2013, 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Roasted Cashew
So yea, who are the "Children of Israel" mentioned in the following verse:

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."

~ The Noble Qur'an Chapter 5, Verse 32...


On a side note...after answering the question above pls also help me with: how do you reply to people who say that this verse doesn't apply to Muslims as it is an order meant for "Children of Israel". Finally, does this "killing a person as if killed a mankind" principle apply to killing Muslims only or every human being...
The term "Children of Israel" DOES apply to Muslims. Wherever instances of other peoples are mentioned, in any story of any Prophet of Allah, or a situation, these are all meant to address the Muslims. The Qur'an addresses all of mankind, don't get me wrong. But all of these other groups are intended for Muslims as well.

Here is why. Consider the following Hadith:
Narrated Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "You will follow the ways of those nations who were before you, span by span and cubit by cubit (i.e., inch by inch) so much so that even if they entered a hole of a mastigure, you would follow them." We said, "O Allah's Apostle! (Do you mean) the Jews and the Christians?" He said, "Whom else?" (Book #92, Hadith #422)
(Sahih Bukhari)

Thus, every verse about the past nations is meant as a warning for the Muslims as well. That is why when it is addressed to past nations who did wrong, then the Muslims are meant as well. Thus, the term "Children of Israel", is in fact saying "O you Muslims who are like the Jews!". There was a letter by Hazrat Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab (ra), where he explained how the Muslims have become like Jews in many ways during his time. That wasn't very far from now. And if you have read Surah Al Fatiha, then you know that the last verse speaks about the Jews and Christians according to commentators. We are always praying to not be like the Jews who were deserving of Divine punishment, and to not be like the Christians who went astray and became idolators. The threat of Muslims becoming idolators is very real and is something which would happen in the very last age:

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established till the buttocks of the women of the tribe of Daus move while going round Dhi-al-Khalasa." Dhi-al-Khalasa was the idol of the Daus tribe which they used to worship in the Pre Islamic Period of ignorance. (Book #88, Hadith #232)
(Sahih Bukhari)

So when there is warning to anyone about not becoming idolators after believing, or in any other situation, then that warning is very much meant for us Muslims as well. There is always a looking threat to every Muslim of becoming one who associates partners with God. It is difficult in more than one way.

So to answer your question, I suggest you look at "A Letter on the Censure of Taqleed" by Hazrat Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab (ra). This letter is a very informative one. It will make more clear to you why the Qur'an addresses "Children of Israel" and still refers to the Muslims. Although, the Hadith I gave you should be fine.

Another interesting point here is that in a university course I took, my professor explained the encounter between Muslims and Jews (that was the course actually), and she made a comparison between the history of the religion of Judaism and Islam, and how they both developed over time with regards to their method of interpreting their religion and the religious canon. There is a striking similarity between both of them, and the way they have both developed is parallel. Thus, Muslims have, in fact, been very much like Jews in a lot of ways. I am not saying literally. But the way in which our histories have developed, they are similar. This is not what I made up, but this was a University of Toronto professor. I wouldn't dispute that. Neither would I dispute a reputable scholar like Hazrat Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab (ra) in his striking comparisons using the Holy Qur'an.
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Perseveranze
04-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum,

You need to read tafsir, otherwise you'll never understand what a verse says.

Imam Baghawi stated in his commentary on this verse, “Sulayman ibn `Ali said: ‘I asked Hasan [al-Basri], ‘Does this apply to us as it applied to the Children of Israel?’ He replied, ‘Yes, indeed! By He who there is no god other than, the blood of the Children of Israel is no nobler to Allah than ours.’” [Ma`alim al-Tanzil]

Imam Nasafi stated, “They [s: the Children of Israel] were specified with mention even though this applies equally to all because the Torah was the first book within which there were legal rulings stipulated.” [Madarik al-Tanzil] Imam Qurtubi also mentions the same reason in his commentary.

http://seekersguidance.org/ans-blog/...to-us-as-well/
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